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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-07-17

---Logopened Thu Jul 17 00:00:55 2014
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07:40<V453000>behold the pigcow https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/pigcow01.png
07:40-!-luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
07:41<__ln__>looks rendered
07:42<@planetmaker>lol, V453000 :)
07:44<@peter1138>Seems quite in here today, is someone missing? :p
07:47<__ln__>Bjarni's not here.
07:48<V453000>:)
07:48<@planetmaker>@calc 123456 / 24*3600
07:48<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 18518400
07:49<@planetmaker>@calc 123456 / (24*3600)
07:49<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 1.42888888889
07:49<@planetmaker>1.428 days quiet, starting yesterday evening ;)
07:49<V453000>:d wa
07:50<@peter1138>Huh?
07:50<@planetmaker>[22:38] <frosch123> @kban Diablo-D3 123456 don't disrupt my patch reviews
07:50<@peter1138>Oh, it was 123456 seconds long?
07:50<@planetmaker>yeah :P
07:50<@planetmaker>@help kban
07:50<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: (kban [<channel>] [--{exact,nick,user,host}] <nick> [<seconds>] [<reason>]) -- If you have the #channel,op capability, this will kickban <nick> for as many seconds as you specify, or else (if you specify 0 seconds or don't specify a number of seconds) it will ban the person indefinitely. --exact bans only the exact hostmask; --nick bans just the nick; --user bans just the user, and --host bans (1 more message)
07:51<V453000>LOL
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08:29<@planetmaker>V453000, the most difficult part with the pigcow is probably giving the cow a more plastic look so that the hair doesn't look quite so printed :)
08:30<@planetmaker>maybe adding some surface roughness already would do the trick. Not sure though. Nor how easy that is
08:30<V453000>I had it set up but the render would take a bit too long :P
08:30<V453000>I made "real" fur, but rendering it takes like 2 hours per frame with the setup I had :D
08:30<V453000>and since the animals are going to be zoomed out, it will be ok this way
08:30<@planetmaker>the path around the iglu looks much better now. Though I'm not 100% happy with the colour of the path... making it more bleached-out than the surrounding looks a bit weired
08:31<V453000>mhm :)
08:31<V453000>ALSO, proper mapping would help the fur majorly
08:31<@planetmaker>maybe I'd make it rather darker or another colour than the same just lighter
08:31<V453000>it looks so printed because there is a lot of stretching, but unwrapping the UV mapping is work for 1-2 hours alone
08:32<@planetmaker>oi, I see. I feared that :)
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08:32<V453000>I will do it anyway :P
08:32<V453000>and yeah might adjust the path too
08:32<@planetmaker>it could also do with more grass at the front edge. Grass tends to grow among stuff which people just pile up :)
08:33<@planetmaker>mind, this is criticising on extremely high level ;)
08:33<V453000>:DD
08:33<V453000>it is BUSY junk
08:34<V453000>they add and remove it often :P
08:34<V453000>no grass :>
08:34<@planetmaker>no grass towards their path side. But towards our view side :)
08:35<V453000>will see :D
08:59<V453000>cute, whole yeti scene has 875k polygons
09:26<@peter1138>Render it every frame!
09:28<@planetmaker>don't ask for that peter1138
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09:35<V453000>what :D
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>we clearly need a proper 3D engine :p
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09:38<Eddi|zuHause>all the problems will be solved!
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>and add cubicles while at it!
09:40<V453000>gg
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09:51<@planetmaker>one problem will remain: the missing undo-knob
10:00<V453000>:D
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10:05<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/YETI/industry_2A_f0000.png
10:05<V453000>.
10:05<@planetmaker>loool
10:05<@planetmaker>awesome
10:06<@planetmaker>may I nitpick?
10:06<ATS63>heh... higher res images would be cool :)
10:06<@planetmaker>ATS63, that is for real in OpenTTD. Just like shown there...
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>why is the thing lieing on its back?
10:07<@planetmaker>V453000, the house, it should not 'float'. thus add some irregularity to its foundation. Where dirt is against the wall or a small hole where it sticks out slightly more
10:08<V453000>yarr, agree 100%
10:08<@planetmaker>or generally make the courtjard slightly less plane surface. Similarily have the dirt heap have somewhat more irregular edge / transition to ground
10:08<@planetmaker>the sun-lit small side of the building is too white
10:09<@planetmaker>the animals are thirsty. They need some water in each pen. And maybe a place to feed, too
10:09<V453000>XD
10:09<V453000>y
10:09<V453000>good iea
10:09<V453000>idea
10:09<@planetmaker>why does the big fat one not leave? Use a chain to keep it in place
10:10<ATS63>wtf. I just discovered zBase
10:10<V453000>XD
10:10<V453000>it is too fat to walk? :P
10:10<@planetmaker>:P
10:10<V453000>but yeah some chains would be awesome there :D
10:11<ATS63>Fat is the better part of pork loin & belly :/
10:11<V453000>XD
10:11<@planetmaker>V453000, and I expect the pens to have a gate / entry. Thus a place where the farmer can open it to take on out to the butchers
10:12<V453000>there actually are gates, but they are like completely undistinguishable to the actual fence :D
10:12<@planetmaker>:D
10:12<@planetmaker>fair enough :P
10:12<@planetmaker>make a chain on one end of the segment, then it's a distinguishable gate
10:12<V453000>but yeah, good details to add
10:13<@planetmaker>and maybe some small scrubs / bushes growing through fences
10:13<@planetmaker>one of them could even chew on it
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>man, this british set was just (re)started, and they are on the brink of collapsing again over the discussion whether to reuse old sprites or start from scratch?
10:14<V453000>yeah, modelling plants is a bit of an issue though :P
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>yeti plants?
10:15<V453000>any plants :)
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>if there's "elephant grass", why shouldn't there be "yeti grass"?
10:15<V453000>valid point
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11:08<V453000>planetmaker: some people are actually USING the 3AA, 3X, etc industry names :P
11:09<@planetmaker>V453000, yes, they will. But still, the with those in the name, the beauty of the graphics is not matched by the names
11:09<V453000>:)
11:09<@planetmaker>you don't name your trains like "01D slug" either
11:09<V453000>-> I add the numbers into graphics? :P
11:09<V453000>well I could! :D
11:09<@planetmaker>the graphics are distinct enough that you don't need them
11:10<@planetmaker>really, how difficult is it to distinguish default industries? And you don't have more
11:10<V453000>super tough!
11:10<V453000>k iznt :P
11:11<V453000>I just care about the sorting thingy
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11:18<@planetmaker>o/
11:18<@planetmaker>added my irc suggestions also to forum to give it more replies, V453000 ;)
11:19<V453000>well it is mainly useful to make me remember it :P thanks
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11:28<@Alberth>being a farmer must be a dangerous profession in yeti land :)
11:29<@Alberth>spikey horns, upside-down pigcows
11:38<V453000>:)
11:39<V453000>Alberth: pm also mentioned the gate, yeah :P
11:40<@Alberth>I had the idea that you could make a few more yellow boards with the yeti home, with other words, like "sleep", "eat", "kill", and stack them vertically against the igloo
11:41<@Alberth>hmm, the "food" board could have different words too I guess
11:42<@Alberth>.-1,. s/board/sign/g
11:45<@Alberth>but like Sealbhach says, who cares about transport, with such graphics to drool at :D
11:50<V453000>:)
11:54<V453000>still, details are important even in "omg so small amount of pixels". Even if you do not know what the detail is, it creates a lot more natural atmosphere
11:54<V453000>big part of why zbase is so "dead"
11:54<V453000>and not in development, but in the way it looks :P
11:55<V453000>anyway, I got to go :) njoy
11:55<@Alberth>I fully agree
11:55<V453000>PS dont drool into your keyboard too much :P
11:55<@Alberth>bye, and have fun :)
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11:57<juzza1>also zBase has almost no gloss anywhere
11:58<juzza1>makes everything look dead
11:59<@Alberth>I fear lukasz1985 will do the same :(
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12:37<shirish>hi all, I was trying to register and am unable to register. The registration link says it caught my email in a spam filter. Can somebody help ?
12:39<shirish>also at http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Graphic_files the hyperlink given for 'Default (DOS) palette for GIMP' http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/ttd-newgrf-dos.gpl results in a 404: not found.
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12:39<shirish>could somebody fix the above ?
12:42<@Alberth>hmm, file disappeared?
12:44<shirish>Alberth: seems to be OR the file location is somewhere else, could be either case, only somebody who knows can share what the fix is and fix the wiki link.
12:44<shirish>Alberth: any idea whom should I talk to about getting registered for the fora ?
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>registered on which site?
12:46<@Alberth>file is not in the current version, maybe the history knows
12:46<shirish>Eddi|zuHause: the openttd forums registeration
12:47<shirish>Eddi|zuHause: I meant this page http://www.tt-forums.net/ucp.php?mode=register
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>"Cleanup #3187: Remove deprecated documentation and only leave the pointer to the official wiki"
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>a2a6e0bb4d20
12:48<shirish>Eddi|zuHause: seems the fora never made the change from transport tycoon to openttd (in naming).
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>shirish: the forum is shared with other games like ttdpatch and locomotion
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>so the accounts are separate from the bugtracker/bananas/etc. accounts
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>orudge is responsible for the forum
12:49<shirish>Eddi|zuHause: thank you :) , calling orudge
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, planetmaker removed this file from the nml repo
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>the link should be changed to point to the wiki
12:50<shirish>orudge: whenever you are online, could you pm me, I could give my mail details and you could remove my mail id from the spam filter so I can register.
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know where else the file could be
12:51<@Alberth>shirish: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3509/
12:52<@Alberth>^^ the file
12:52<@Alberth>no idea where that file moved to :(
12:53<Rubidium>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/1712
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>well, a dirty workaround would be changing above link from "tip" to the old revision before this removal
12:53<Rubidium>^ there it went...
12:55<@Alberth>yeah, I noticed the hex number as being a revision after a few minutes :)
12:56<@Alberth>It seems like useful information to distribute with the compiler, imo
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>well, i could have also written the "short revision", but i'm not sure anymore when my local sequence diverged from the official one
13:00<shirish>Eddi|zuHause: what does the above discussion, does it mean that the gimp pallette shared is no longer correct or not being maintained or what ?
13:00<shirish>Eddi|zuHause: I am 'newbie' hence asking.
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>shirish: the file is still correct. nothing has changed in the palette in 20 years. it has been removed from that particular repo because someone decided it doesn't belong there
13:02<shirish>Eddi|zuHause: ohk. thanx for clearing that up.
13:03<shirish>this NEWGRF is a recent phenomenon or an old thing ? Can anybody share when this came up ?
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>about 10 years ago
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>people had been changing the original graphics by modifying the files directly, and at some point someone decided there should be a mod format. then it has been extended over time to cover more features
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>like changing stats of vehicles, adding new industry types, ...
13:10<shirish>Eddi|zuHause: ohk, thanx.
13:22<Eddi|zuHause># Und der Gabelstaplerf├╝hrer mit der Stapelgabel prahlt
13:25<Rubidium>what's the second noun?
13:25<Rubidium>+mean
13:25<Rubidium>it reminds me of Klaus' first work day though
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>it's more of a pun than a proper word
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13:29<Eddi|zuHause>the "Gabel|stapler" has a Gabel in front of it, and it is used to "stapeln" (hence the name). and they branded it "Stapel|gabel", which nobody would actually call it in every day language
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>"Gabel"->fork, "Stapel"->stack
13:31<Rubidium>so it's just a brand name
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13:31<Eddi|zuHause>no, not an actual brand
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>"the fork-lift-driver shows off with his lift-fork"
13:32<shirish>Eddi|zuHause: would it be correct to label the graphics in openttd as '8-bit graphics' or no ?
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>shirish: yes. mostly.
13:32<shirish>Eddi|zuHause: I am planning to do small blog post about openttd in the nearish future (for some reason people don't know about it.)
13:33<shirish>or many people don't know about it.
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>shirish: there has been a movement towards 32-bit, but it's not caught on very far yet
13:33<shirish>Eddi|zuHause: link please.
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>i don't have links
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>there is a subsection in the forum
13:34<Rubidium>in the in game content download thing, search for zbase, download it. Then go to the game options and select zbase as base graphics set
13:35<Rubidium>bear in mind that 32 bits zbase is about 100 times larger than 8 bits opengfx (resp. 273 vs 3 MiB)
13:36<shirish>ohk, thanx all.
13:39<shirish>umm... does anybody know if has anybody made any youtube videos or anything with the new 32-bit graphics ?
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>no idea
13:39<Rubidium>no doubt searching youtube will give you an answer
13:39<Rubidium>try things like openttd 32bpp or so
13:40<Rubidium>or openttd zbase
13:41<shirish>Rubidium: wow, thanx the first link itself gave lot of hits, going to watch some :)
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13:49<@Alberth>o/
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14:15<Wolf01>hi hi
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14:22<Wolf01>enough accidents for today?
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14:27<@peter1138>"accident"
14:27<Wolf01>ok, that was a coincidence with a missile
14:29<Wolf01>but there are also a TGV in France and some workers killed by a train here in Italy
14:31<Wolf01>and I don't want to count how many accidents on the highways
14:32<Eddi|zuHause> wasn't there something in moscow like 2 days ago?
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14:37<Wolf01>and in Rome too
14:37<Wolf01>but without casualties
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14:38<frosch123>some pigcows fell over
14:38<frosch123>couldn't get back up again
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15:06<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26695 trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt (2014-07-17 19:06:33 UTC)
15:06<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6064]: Slovakian uses space as group separator in numbers.
15:07<frosch123>yay, another language using proper group separators
15:07<__ln__>i didn't look at the diff yet, but i suspect something...
15:09<__ln__>nevermind, it's correct despite the message.
15:12<Supercheese>Commas are superior! :P
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15:34<Jinassi>IS there a list where I can see what kind of fonts Openttd supports, like I can't use MS sans serif regular and so fort?
15:34<frosch123>it supports all fonts which your os supports
15:37<Jinassi>Unable to use 'MS Sans Serif Regular' for medium font, FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead
15:39<Jinassi>I see there were issues with Arial font before in 2009 wtih this
15:39<frosch123>are you sure the font is called like that?
15:39<frosch123>not maybe just "MS Sans serif" ?
15:40<frosch123>"MS Sans Serif" even
15:40<Jinassi>http://clip2net.com/s/ixMnNY
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15:52<@peter1138>Is that a bitmap font? Not sure they work, but I suppose they might.
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15:57<frosch123>"MS Sans Serif is a proportional raster font introduced in Windows 1.x as "Helv". It changed to its current name starting with Windows 3.1. It is the default system font on Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows NT 4.0, Windows 98, and Windows ME. It shares spots with typefaces like Terminal, Fixedsys, and System."
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16:01<frosch123>maybe it only works with certain font sizes
16:01<frosch123>anyway, i guess it is easier to just use a scalable font instead
16:01<Jinassi>Trying that now, no succes so far.
16:10<Phreeze>zup
16:12<frosch123>night
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17:39<Wolf01>'night
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18:18<MTsPony>so emh, ive been wondering about this a week ago, i still havent found it why its behaving the way it does, but i still cannot make openttd save map on another thread and thus lagging out the game for 10 seconds (on linux server)
18:19<MTsPony>it seems to work just fine on windows, same client.
18:19<MTsPony>same revision
18:19<MTsPony>beats me.
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18:38<Eddi|zuHause>was it compiled with threads enabled?
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>do you get a progress report on game start?
18:41<MTsPony>well
18:41<MTsPony>--enable-threads yeah?
18:41<MTsPony>yeah.
18:42<MTsPony>it was a bit vague tho, ./configure showed only the option --without-threads, but i figured i tried --enable-threads and it didnt say it was an invalid command, so yeah, still same story though.
18:44<+glx>it's --with-threads
18:44<MTsPony>sorry, with-threads.
18:44<MTsPony>its kinda late here, i know configure would say invalid command i did it wrong :p
18:45<MTsPony>in either case, it would be weird if on windows compile it would be on, and on linux it would be off by default? i never had to configure anything for that in Visual studio 2010
18:46<MTsPony>anyway its on. and i configured with --with-threads
18:46<MTsPony>so im beat :/
18:46<MTsPony>i do use the intel compiler though, i dont assume that it screws with the configure parameters as --enable-dedicated works fine too lol
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>you didn't answer the second question
18:47<MTsPony>what do you mean with a progress report?
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>a progress bar
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>"x of y done"
18:47<MTsPony>you mean in the linux terminal?
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>no in the window
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>like "scanning newgrfs" or "generating map"
18:48<MTsPony>oh yeah, client wise i do.
18:48<MTsPony>but this is about server side autosaves.
18:48<MTsPony>on linux
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>can you start the client on linux?
18:48<MTsPony>yeah? just no video cuz i did --enable-dedicated
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>that does probably not help
18:49<MTsPony>well i can just recompile it with SDL or something, how would that solve the save/threading issue tho?
18:50<+glx>try -d sl1
18:52<MTsPony>i see some output
18:52<+glx>if (_network_server || !_settings_client.gui.threaded_saves) threaded = false;
18:52<+glx>seems server doesn't save in threads
18:53<MTsPony>it doesnt show me that
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>that seems like a weird exception
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18:53<MTsPony>i have threaded_saves on true in my openttd.cfg file.
18:54<MTsPony>is there anything in the compiling stage which could prevent this from workin?
18:54<+glx>_network_server is responsible
18:55<MTsPony>ok...
18:55<MTsPony>so what do i do to fix this?
18:56<+glx>you can't
18:56<MTsPony>lol why not
18:56<MTsPony>why would it work in windows but not under linux?
18:56<+glx>even if windows is hosting ?
18:56<MTsPony>no idea.
18:57<MTsPony>are you saying it only works with client side saving?
18:57<+glx>because the code says the server doesn't thread saving
18:57<MTsPony>whats the reason for that?
19:01<MTsPony>glx?
19:01<+glx>checking
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19:11<+glx>@commit 2391
19:11<@DorpsGek>glx: Commit by Darkvater :: r2391 /trunk (7 files in 2 dirs) (2005-06-01 23:08:33 UTC)
19:11<@DorpsGek>glx: - Feature: saving games happen in a seperate thread so you no longer will have to wait such a long time (especially handy on bigger maps and multiplayer games). The mouse also changes into the 'ZZZ' state :P. The thread on windows is currently given a little-bit-less-than-normal priority so it should not interfere that much with the gameplay; it will take a bit longer though. Upon the exit of the game (1 more message)
19:11<@DorpsGek>glx: - Fix: fixed GetSavegameFormat() so that it takes the best compressor (highest), or a forced one added with the parameter
19:11<@DorpsGek>glx: - Open issues:
19:11<@DorpsGek>glx: 1. Don't attempt to load a game while saving is in progress, it will kick you back to the intro-screen with only the vast ocean to look at.
19:11<@DorpsGek>glx: (...)
19:11<+glx>2. The server is disabled from threaded-saving, but might be enabled in the future.
19:11<+glx>3. Current implementation only allows 1 additional running thread.
19:11<+glx>4. Stupid global variables.....grrr
19:11<+glx>Big thanks for TrueLight and the amazing memorypool :D
19:12<+glx>the reason is it probably was too dangerous at that time :)
19:12<+glx>and nobody looked at it since then
19:13<MTsPony>oh.. lol
19:13<MTsPony>any dirty fix to enable it?
19:16<+glx>the dirty fix is remove "_network_server || " on src/saveload.cpp:2827
19:16<+glx>but I can't guarantee it will not cause problems
19:16<MTsPony>what were the problems it was causing anyway?
19:17<+glx>we had many global variables at that time
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19:17<+glx>and threading with globals is rarely a good idea
19:23<MTsPony>kkthx
19:23<MTsPony>so what happens if it goes wrong tho, does the save game screw up?
19:25<+glx>save game should be ok, but maybe desync can happen
19:26<MTsPony>ah ok
19:26<MTsPony>in that case ill try it anyway :D
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 18 00:00:57 2014