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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-07-27

---Logopened Sun Jul 27 00:00:23 2014
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03:01<andythenorth>o/
03:01<Rubidium>morning andy
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03:17<andythenorth>cat is where?
03:17<Rubidium>cat is with sam
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03:18-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
03:19<andythenorth>here is cat
03:33-!-bdavenport [~davenport@aeolus.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd
03:35<@Alberth>hi cat
03:47*andythenorth saves time on compiles
03:47<andythenorth>by spending days re-building the compile
03:54<andythenorth>ugh, there is going to be One Giant Commit when this is done
03:55-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
03:55*Alberth quotes the relevant xkcd cartoon
03:56<@Alberth>but think of all the new things you learned :)
03:56<andythenorth>ultimately it makes a better structured project
03:57<andythenorth>making it work with partial compiles and multiprocessing requires removal of string
03:57<andythenorth>string is bad
03:59-!-pipeep [~pipeep@2605:6400:10:a15d:ca7:ea75:b12d:dead] has joined #openttd
04:00<pipeep>Hey, I'm having issues connecting to my OpenTTD server over IPv6. Can someone else with an IPv6 connection try to connect to my server, so I can see if the problem is on comcast's side, or on my server's side?
04:00<pipeep>ipv6.b.enjam.info
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04:01<pipeep>It's really strange because IPv4 works, and I can ping6 my server
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04:13<Rubidium>maybe there's no port forwarding set up for IPv6? Or the firewall is blocking IPv6?
04:13<pipeep>Rubidium, I don't have a firewall
04:14<@peter1138>You should :)
04:14<pipeep>Rubidium, and there's no port forwarding involved. I'm using a server from a real hosting provider (not some home router)
04:14<pipeep>So the box has a dedicated IPv4 and IPv6
04:14<pipeep>peter1138, there's issues with UFW and OpenVZ
04:14<@peter1138>You can connect to it via ssh right?
04:14<pipeep>Yeah, and ping6 works
04:14<@peter1138>ufw...?
04:15<pipeep>It's a iptables configuration tool
04:15<@peter1138>Oh, I tend to just use iptables direct.
04:15<pipeep>And I know UDP traffic over IPv6 works because I use mosh, and that works over UDP
04:16<@peter1138>OpenTTD is TCP, bar the server list stuff.
04:16<pipeep>peter1138, Yeah I think that would work, I'm just too lazy to learn another tool
04:16<pipeep>Well, TCP works too
04:17<@peter1138>I'd like to test, but I don't have anything with ipv6...
04:17<Rubidium>pipeep: what ports/addresses does openttd say it's listening on when starting openttd with -D?
04:17<Rubidium>or rather, just paste the whole output (pastebin or so)
04:17<@peter1138>ACtually I have access to one box with ipv6.
04:18<@peter1138>pipeep, 3979 is open from.
04:18<@peter1138>from? heh
04:18<pipeep>http://pastie.org/9424183
04:18<@peter1138>$ telnet ipv6.b.enjam.info 3979
04:18<@peter1138>Trying 2605:6400:10:a15d:feed:face:dead:beef...
04:18<@peter1138>Connected to ipv6.b.enjam.info.
04:18<@peter1138>Escape character is '^]'.
04:18<@peter1138>nnection closed by foreign host.
04:19<Rubidium>okay, it's at least binding to ipv6. So not binding is ruled out as well
04:21<pipeep>I ran `telnet ipv6.b.enjam.info 3979` on my local box just now, and that works
04:21<Rubidium>too bad the tunnel IPv6 thing was just too unreliable, so I'm not using it anymore and don't have IPv6 connectivity (yay provider for promising to deliver IPv6 connectivity in summer of 2013...)
04:21<@peter1138>I think my provider does, but... my router isn't capable.
04:21<Rubidium>peter1138: how quickly did the connection close?
04:22<pipeep>Yeah, comcast sucks, but at least they have IPv6 support
04:22<Rubidium>immediately or after a few seconds?
04:22<@peter1138>After a few seconds.
04:22<pipeep>peter1138, my parents are in the same situation.
04:22<Rubidium>then that's likely OpenTTD killing it due to idling
04:22<Rubidium>don't think comcast provides service here
04:25<pipeep>When it kills my telnet session, the I get the message in the openttd log: dbg: [net] [admin] Admin did not send its authorisation within 10 seconds
04:25<pipeep>So yes, it's just OpenTTD killing the session for idling
04:28<pipeep>If it helps, my server log shows I'm getting packets from the client: dbg: [net] [udp] queried from 2601:8:b180:205:2030:b886:ce3d:1d8d
04:28<pipeep>Where 2601:8:b180:205:2030:b886:ce3d:1d8d is my comcast IP
04:39<pipeep>I can connect to other IPv6 OpenTTD servers...
04:42<pipeep>hmm... mosh is ipv4 only, so maybe udp over ipv6 truly is broken for my provider (although that doesn't explain why telnet gets through)
04:42<pipeep>er... actually it does, telnet is tcp.
04:43<pipeep>God it's late here.
04:46<pipeep>The mystery deepens: http://pastie.org/9424218
04:47<pipeep>Eh, I'll deploy openttd to my testing box on a different provider tomorrow, and see if that has issues.
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05:40<Wolf01>hi hi
05:41<Wolf01>the silly fact is that I started mIRC about 1 hour and half ago, but never connected
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05:52<@Alberth>welcome :)
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07:34<Phreeze>gday
07:35<@Alberth>o/
07:38<Phreeze>i think i'm starting a game in 32bpp
07:38<Phreeze>first time ever (besides an early version waaaaaaaaaaay back when only trains were 32bpp)
07:39<kero>Never tried yet
07:40<Phreeze>it's not easy to find out WHICH newgrfs have 32bpp....
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07:40<kero>the new one of V453000 does
07:40<kero>YETI
07:40<Phreeze>287mb for yeti and pine xD
07:40<Phreeze>yes i know them + zbase
07:40<Phreeze>but there are more...
07:40<kero>there's also the last of Pikkabird
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07:40<kero>Don't remember the name
07:41<Phreeze>8/32bpp 2CC trains, obviously
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07:48<Rubidium>Phreeze: >50 MiB... likely 32bpp, <200kiB... likely not 32bpp
07:49<Rubidium>also... 32bpp is ambiguous
07:49<Rubidium>is a NewGRF with 32bpp normal zoom sprites only 32bpp enough for you? Or is it more about the larger/higher resolution sprites?
07:52<Phreeze>it should look "other than 8bpp" :D
07:53<Phreeze>i must say, i really hate the 32bpp GUI. it's just ugly...
07:53<Phreeze>and still dont get it why the "train" symbol etc. are so small
07:54<Phreeze>those gradiants...arff...it looks like a child has drawn them or like they are still temporary pictures
07:54<@Alberth>fire up the sprite editor, and make better ones :)
07:54<@Alberth>ranting here doesn't fix it
07:58<Rubidium>you mean zbase? The set effectively made by one drawer, making about 10.000 sprites in about 3.5 months, just so there would be a 32bpp base set that people can build upon
08:00<Rubidium>for what it's worth, the first opengfx alpha came out a mere 11 months after they (a group) started
08:00<Rubidium>the first non alpha another 10-11 months later
08:02<Rubidium>oh... after basically 24 months from the announcement the first "complete" OpenGFX was released. zBase after ~3 months
08:02<Rubidium>no wonder zBase isn't looking as finished
08:03<LordAro>zeph did most of the ogfx sprites himself as well
08:05<Phreeze>i know, i appreciate the really good work
08:05<Phreeze>but the gui is uncool ^^
08:09<LordAro>make new ones then ;)
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08:15<Phreeze>i'm horrible at it :) i'm just good at ranting ;)
08:18<@Alberth>you're creating a negative mood in the channel for no good reason
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08:23<Phreeze>..
08:24<Phreeze>srsly...it's my right to discuss stuff....
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08:24<Phreeze>i just think, that 32bpp looks really nice, especially all the trains, wagons etc, but the gui creates a contrast to this
08:25<Phreeze>my opinion..if we dont chat/discuss, we dont need an irc channel...
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08:34<@Alberth>discussing would be about solving the problem, wouldn't it?
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08:34<@Alberth>hi andy
08:35<Phreeze>no, it's about talking aboth sth
08:35<Phreeze>with different views
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08:35<Phreeze>a bit like the bad features thread ;)
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09:10<V453000>trying to continue with yeti ... sprite: sprite_industry_3X_tile00_under(14); screams "sprite_industry_3X_tile00_under is not defined as a function ... what do I do with this? it looks like this in the sprite layout http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3551/
09:16<Rubidium>apparantly the function doesn't exist (different name?); might it be 3x?
09:16<@Alberth>line 7 says "...anim"
09:17<@Alberth>hmm, that seems correct, you didn't paste both names :(
09:17<V453000>it is a spriteset
09:17<V453000>hm
09:17<@Alberth>like RB says, the common mistake is a typo in the name
09:18<V453000>OMG
09:18<V453000>:D
09:18<V453000>it indeed doesnt exist
09:18<V453000>just did ctrlf
09:18<V453000>:D
09:18<@Alberth>yep, computers are much better readers than us :p
09:19<V453000>oh yeah I see the issue now
09:19<V453000>that is exactly what happens if you stop doing something without finishing it
09:19<V453000>:D
09:19<V453000>it was not 3X at all, I Actually removed the identifier because I made one "under" for all industries
09:19<V453000>and obviously I forgot about that
09:19<V453000>(: thanks :D
09:19<@Alberth>yeah, you are not to leave the computer until all yeti is finished :p
09:19<V453000>.
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09:57<Phreeze>V453000 : could you just add a transparency-effect ? i often build tracks and stations in transparent mode, so i can see slopes etc. but i often run into the yeti industries ^^
09:58<Phreeze>(is it the basement-gfx ? whatever it is called, it is "invisible" at the moment ;) )
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>it needs a custom "ground sprite"
10:00<Phreeze>hm and what wagons can transport grain ? i think i miss some Newgrf
10:00<Phreeze>grain hopper can not be refitted to "grain" xD
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>from the base set?
10:01<Phreeze>using 8/32bpp 2cc trains and pineaccle
10:01<Phreeze>*pineapple trains
10:01<Phreeze>from any set ^^
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably a bug in the train set
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>train set should just accept any cargo configuration the industry throws at it
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>no matter how weird it is
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>"you want grain transported as liquid? sure."
10:03<Phreeze>hm im not ok with that
10:03<Phreeze>are the opengfx+ train 0.3.0 in 32bit too ?
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>probably some alpha versions
10:11<V453000>Phreeze: yeti explicitly says it is recommended to use nuts :) I have no idea about other train sets
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: so what weird things do you set for cargo classes?
10:13<V453000>idk
10:13<V453000>see the source
10:21<Phreeze>you are the source :D
10:23<V453000>yes but I have lesser clue about the cargo, I coded it as I thought is fine
10:23<V453000>so I dont have any other answer for eddi :)
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10:32<Phreeze>perhaps you can look into the "grain" code :) thx in advance ;)
10:32<V453000>just use nuts for now
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12:06<V453000>hm my thing is now https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/3X_FIXED.png
12:06<V453000>:d
12:06<V453000>both animation and underlay broken :D
12:07<@Alberth>open air factory!
12:12<@peter1138>:D
12:20<LSky`>was there a way to switch to a certain order instead of skipping through each one ?
12:20<@Alberth>not that I am aware of
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>select it and ctrl+click on "skip order"
12:25<@Alberth>:o
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>hidden features are hidden :)
12:37<kero>Succeded. Vehicles are waiting in depots :)
12:38<kero>Should help for better timetabling ...
12:43<LSky`>thanks Eddi|zuHause
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12:54<LordAro>this is fun, i have a python program which responds to INT, but not TERM
12:54<LordAro>so i have to close my terminal window to kill it
12:55<@Alberth>kill -9 :)
12:55<LordAro>or that :)
12:55<LordAro>and the best part, the backtrace is coming from inside the stdlib
12:56<LordAro>http://fpaste.org/121248/79427140/
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13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26704 trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt (2014-07-27 17:45:52 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 1 changes by
13:46<@DorpsGek>slovak - 5 changes by Milsa
13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26705 trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt (2014-07-27 17:46:46 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Fix: WT3 validation error
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14:16<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26706 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2014-07-27 18:16:03 UTC)
14:16<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6015] (r20644): wrong breakdown sound was played for ships
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14:47<andythenorth>la la la
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>the song goes "la le lu"
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14:48<andythenorth>is it worth caring about StringIO versus cStringIO for a couple of hundred lines?
14:49<SpComb>profile first, then optimize
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14:52<andythenorth>my guess is more time spent profiling than will be saved in next ~ 2 years
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>then don't do it
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15:05<andythenorth>is there a nice one-liner in python 2 to get me the last non-blank line of a file?
15:06<andythenorth>how about
15:06<andythenorth>filter(None, (line.rstrip() for line in dummy_nfo.readlines()))[-1]
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15:09<Eddi|zuHause>what do you need that for?
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i'd have some performance concerns about building a list when iterating would be enough
15:12<andythenorth>alternative method?
15:12<andythenorth>I am just doing c+p from stack overflow, so chances are there’s a better way
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>hundreds
15:12<andythenorth>this is just to find the last line of dummy.nfo to split on it
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds dangerous
15:13<andythenorth>it is
15:13<andythenorth>I’m accepting the ris
15:13<andythenorth>risk *
15:13<andythenorth>until someone commits a comments patch, there isn’t a better way afaict
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>use eddi_nml
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>you can configure the devzone to use it
15:14<andythenorth>is it maintained?
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>sporadically
15:15<andythenorth>:)
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>i updated it a few weeks ago
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15:49<andythenorth>grrr
15:49<andythenorth>I can’t get nmlc to encode the lang strings using partial nfo
15:50<andythenorth>this is specific to cargos
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16:12<Eddi|zuHause>then just don't do it.
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>keep the cargos in the main header
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16:14<andythenorth>I’m concatenating the header with the cargo nml before calling nmlc
16:14<andythenorth>nmlc isn’t writing any strings out
16:15<andythenorth>any / some /s
16:16<andythenorth>hmm
16:16*andythenorth tests something
16:17<andythenorth>ho
16:18<andythenorth>this nml *does* produce a valid single-cargo grf when encoded directly with nmlc
16:18<andythenorth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3554/
16:18<andythenorth>so the nml looks ok
16:18*andythenorth one step at a time
16:22<andythenorth>and the nml -> nfo -> grfcodec grf looks ok
16:22<andythenorth>for that nml
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16:38*andythenorth moves the cargos into the header :P
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16:50<andythenorth>meh
16:51<andythenorth>nmlc is writing the action 4s in with a lot of other header stuff
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16:51<andythenorth>I need to split the header, or I have invalid grf due to too many action 8s
16:51<andythenorth>invalid grf / nfo /s
16:51<andythenorth>splitting the header loses the strings
16:52<frosch123>filter the intermediate files for action 8/14?
16:52<andythenorth>I could write my own action 4s out and concatenate them, but it won’t work
16:52<andythenorth>yeah, I’ll have to filter on action 8 or so
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16:52<andythenorth>could I teach nmlc to drop actions by number?
16:52<andythenorth>on output?
16:53<andythenorth>could / should
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16:53<frosch123>you could also try to let all files output the strings even, and drop them for all but one again
16:53<frosch123>if you are lucky they will use the same ids
16:54<andythenorth>that’s roughly what I’m trying to do
16:54<andythenorth>but I can’t think how to reliably split the action 8 off
16:54<andythenorth>this is a non-problem for trains, nmlc writes the action 4s out conveniently near to the action 0s
16:55<andythenorth>not up with the header stuff
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>i can only repeat what i said before
16:55<andythenorth>go on then :|
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16:57<andythenorth>I could move all the industries into the header too
16:57<andythenorth>maybe that would work ok
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17:03<Eddi|zuHause>well the whole concept always was fragile because it depended on nmlc not reordering stuff too far
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17:06<andythenorth>it’s so close to working
17:06<andythenorth>but it’s going to end up held together with tape
17:06<andythenorth>not good
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, it's easy to filter out action 4, because you know exactly which byte to grep for. just make sure you get all the relevant lines afterwards
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>the most sophisticated approach would be to modify a tool like nforenum, which already has a full nfo parser and output
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17:23<andythenorth>just got one step closer
17:23<andythenorth>cargo names were working
17:23<andythenorth>now industry extra text is working too
17:27<andythenorth>but industry names are all ‘Alcohol’ :P
17:30<V453000>sounds good to me
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>something completely different: i always wondered why the game doesn't force loading openttd.grf before loading the base set? it's the only base grf file that ever changes, so why rely on outside projects to get updated, when all the necessary data is there anyway?
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>in the worst case, the data is overwritten by the base set anyway
17:36<Wolf01>'night
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17:36<andythenorth>if I encode just (for example) aluminium_plant.nfo, then I also get a valid grf, with all cargos and one industry
17:36<andythenorth>so I guess I’m going to have to do a more sophisticated split
17:37<andythenorth>I have *zero* idea how to work nforenum
17:37<andythenorth>but the idea of having args to drop certain actions - sensible?
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17:44<frosch123>maybe you can instruct nforenum to refomat the grf to not use any linebreaks within nfo lines
17:44<frosch123>then it is an easy grep filter to get rid of actions
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17:47<andythenorth>turn off the beautifier
17:47<andythenorth>might work
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17:51<__ln__>http://i.imgur.com/9cV7VYK.jpg (fake or not?)
17:52<andythenorth>I could probably dump in all the industries, and their extra text cbs
17:52<+glx>probably fake __ln__
17:53<andythenorth>compiling those still wouldn’t take long compared to all spritelayouts crap
17:53<+glx>IIRC steam uses a dropdown
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17:53<__ln__>:(
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18:16<frosch123>night
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18:18<andythenorth>bye
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 28 00:00:25 2014