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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-07-28

---Logopened Mon Jul 28 00:00:25 2014
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03:00<andythenorth>looks like I can put a stub for each industry into the FIRS header, providing industry property block with 1F (name), also switch for extra text cb
03:01<andythenorth>nmlc takes about 2-3 seconds to compile the entire header block nml to nfo, so neglible
03:11<andythenorth>ho
03:12<andythenorth>a complete compile is now 1m20s instead of 3m
03:12<andythenorth>multiprocessing
03:15<@planetmaker>moin moin
03:15<V453000>mooin
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03:16<V453000>..... is it possible that building{} has different offsets or something than childsprite{} ?
03:16<V453000>because I just put 2 images on top of it using same template and they dont seem to fit
03:17<andythenorth>hmm
03:17<andythenorth>I’ve forgotten how all that works :P
03:17<andythenorth>it’s done by magic in FIRS
03:17<V453000>D:
03:18<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/3X_FIXED2.png
03:18<V453000>two images which "should be atop of each other
03:18<andythenorth>what are your realsprite offsets?
03:18*andythenorth is just guessing at things
03:18<V453000>I dont even know what realsprite offsets are?
03:18<V453000>you mean the offsets in the template?
03:19<V453000>template template_industrytile_x4_redone(x, z) { // x == MOVEMENT on X // z == file name, e.g. "gfx/industry_3BB/industry_3BB_f0000.png" [x*256, 0, 256, 704, -128, -578, z] }
03:19<andythenorth>there will be spriteset {} somewhere
03:19<andythenorth>probably in the template
03:20<andythenorth>this stuff makes my head hurt :)
03:20<V453000>mine too
03:21<andythenorth>I think it will be your offsets, but not 100% sure
03:22<V453000>that would mean I need 2 different templates for the building and childsprite then
03:23<V453000>I kind of assumed that they would behave the same :d
03:24<andythenorth>did you test that it was the offsets?
03:24<andythenorth>FIRS templates have 4 params
03:24<andythenorth>tmpl_building_sprite(150, 10, 59, -28)
03:25<andythenorth>template tmpl_building_sprite(x, y, h, dy) {
03:25<andythenorth> [x, y, 64, h, -31, dy]
03:25<andythenorth>}
03:26<andythenorth>:) although mostly that’s not used
03:27<andythenorth>mostly this does them https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/templates/spritesets.pynml
03:31<andythenorth>V453000: how many industries for YETI? o_O
03:32<V453000>16
03:32<V453000>hm
03:36<andythenorth>you might find a lot of boring repetitive coding for spritesets and such
03:36<andythenorth>esp. if you’re animating :)
03:36<V453000>yeah :D
03:36<V453000>I already did an endless amount
03:37<V453000>idk, will try 2nd template
03:37<@planetmaker>V453000, iirc the childsprites have the same offsets as their parents
03:37<@planetmaker>their alignment is relative to the parent
03:37<V453000>that is what I would expect too, pm, even further proving that, it looks like the childsprite is correct https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/3X_FIXED.png
03:37<@planetmaker>all iirc that is. There are bear traps with spiky pits ahead. I'm sure
03:38<V453000>but when I also correctly loaded the building, it moved
03:38<andythenorth>they’re simple to do once you have the right setup
03:38<V453000>so there is some weird bear trap relation between building and childsprite
03:38<V453000>yes andy, but once you have the right setup XD
03:38<andythenorth>do the docs say anything?
03:39<andythenorth>xoffset and yoffset move the origin of a child sprite relative to parent
03:40<andythenorth>so if you pass them the wrong offs, you’ll get unwanted results
03:40<V453000>o
03:40<V453000>that could be it
03:40<andythenorth>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Spritelayout
03:40<andythenorth>docs are pretty useful on this :)
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03:40<V453000>oh yeah
03:40<V453000>I have 0 0
03:41<V453000>which explains why they center to top right of their parent seemingly
03:41<V453000>they are very useful andy, I just somehow manage to get confused frequently :P
03:43<V453000>will try that, thanks andy
03:43<andythenorth>np
03:44<V453000>one more thing related to this
03:44<andythenorth>pretty common that child objects offset from parent
03:44<andythenorth>flash does it
03:44<andythenorth>css does it
03:44<andythenorth>etc
03:44<V453000>people have been reporting a lot of errors where trains draw over the industry, I guess that is because zextent 0
03:44<V453000>what is a sane zextent?
03:45<V453000>when it was like 1, it seemed to already overwrite things atop of it like tracks on foundation
03:45<V453000>the docs say 16
03:45<V453000>but that looks insane to me
03:45<andythenorth>usually the height of the building in the sprite iirc
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03:46<andythenorth>FIRS ones range 32-90
03:46<andythenorth>in a quick sample
03:46<V453000>but if the building technically is ground?
03:46<V453000>right
03:46<andythenorth>hmm ground
03:46<andythenorth>actual ground tile, nothing on it?
03:46<V453000>well no
03:47<V453000>non-animated stuff
03:47<V453000>while the childsprite is animated stuff
03:47<andythenorth>try 32 as a default
03:47<andythenorth>just to see
03:47<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/yeti/wiki/Tech
03:47<V453000>eh
03:47<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6338/anim_mask_workflow.png
03:47<V453000>this is what I am trying to do
03:47<V453000>the "static underlay sprite" is building{}
03:48<V453000>with animated sprite being childsprite
03:48<andythenorth>have you run into issue where spritesets have to have same number of items
03:48<andythenorth>which is interesting for animation
03:48<andythenorth>might not affect you
03:48<V453000>yes I did :d
03:48<V453000>was ridiculous
03:48<andythenorth>again, FIRS magics that away
03:48<V453000>had to make 127 times []
03:49<V453000>in the spriteset definition :D
03:49<andythenorth>you need a code generator :P
03:49<V453000>makes sense to make tiles on the bottom edge have zextent 0, and the rest like 16?
03:49<andythenorth>imagine how much trouble that could cause :)
03:49<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6337/CUTTING_MASK.png
03:49<@planetmaker>V453000, you need to use as zextend the overall extend. Also, a child sprite never extends, also not in z-direction, its parent
03:49<V453000>namely 3, 31 32 33 23 13 03
03:50<@planetmaker>if it needs to extend its parent in z-extend pad the parent with many transparent pixels in z-direction
03:51*andythenorth bbl
03:51<V453000>hm, will try something
03:51<V453000>thanks andy, cya
03:51<andythenorth>but zextents should be height of stuff drawn on tile
03:52<andythenorth>roughly
03:52<andythenorth>try turning on bounding box view, it might show them, can’t remember
03:52<andythenorth>bye
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03:52<V453000>yeah it shows the bounding box derived from zextent (:
03:52<V453000>but still valuable info
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07:13<kero>hi
07:14<FLHerne>kero: Afternoon
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 28 08:19:17 2014
---Logopened Mon Jul 28 08:26:35 2014
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---Logopened Mon Jul 28 08:37:40 2014
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---Logopened Mon Jul 28 09:00:58 2014
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 28 09:16:10 2014
---Logopened Mon Jul 28 09:18:18 2014
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---Logopened Mon Jul 28 09:22:27 2014
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09:34<NGC3982>Stephen Hawking is dead.
09:39<@Belugas>you've been caugh spreading a hoax ;)
09:39<@Belugas>shame on you!
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---Logopened Mon Jul 28 09:53:20 2014
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---Logopened Mon Jul 28 09:58:04 2014
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09:58<Pikka>hallo
09:58<@planetmaker>o/
09:58<Pikka>is it not that the "sending a single character through chat crashed OpenTTD" thing was fixed
09:58<Pikka>?
09:59<andythenorth>lo Pikka
09:59<andythenorth>how is pineapple land?
09:59<Pikka>'cause it just happened to me in r26705 :)
09:59<Pikka>it is splendid!
09:59<Pikka>give or take
09:59<andythenorth>does it have any BAD FEATURES?
09:59<andythenorth>crocs?
09:59<andythenorth>typhoons?
09:59<Pikka>well
09:59<andythenorth>politicians?
09:59<@planetmaker>Pikka, I've no clue what you asked about :)
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10:01<Pikka>planetmaker; I remember when we were playing a while back, the game would crash if I sent a single character through chat (eg "o")
10:01<Pikka>I thought it was fixed, but it still does it :) I can't find the bug report right now, I assume I made one, right?
10:02*planetmaker doesn't recall that incident. Even after this verbose reminder
10:02<@planetmaker>Nor can I remember such bug, tbh
10:02<Pikka>andythenorth, we've got a few of those things, although we call the middle one cyclones
10:02<Pikka>and the last one something that I probably can't say without being kicked
10:03<andythenorth>Pikka: but as long as you can buy a bigger boat, and chrome wheels for your truck, you’ll be happy :D
10:03<Pikka>unfortunately, they're stopping the boats.
---Logopened Mon Jul 28 10:45:14 2014
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---Logopened Mon Jul 28 10:49:57 2014
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---Logopened Mon Jul 28 11:01:52 2014
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11:55<keoz>Maybee someone can help me understand order->type bytes (cf. order_base.h, order_cmd.cpp) ? I see that for a normal goto station order, type value is 01100001 (=97). The first bit from right is about the order type (1 = GO_TO_STATION). The two last are the non stop flag - if I understood fine so far. But what is the 6th bit for ?
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12:26<Jinassi>Anyonemantains this? http://www.desura.com/games/openttd
12:28<frosch123>currently no, do you want to?
12:29<Jinassi>If possible I'd like to spread the word to gog too, even further, to increae coverage
12:29<Jinassi>with permission
12:29<frosch123>isn'g gog about selling games?
12:29<frosch123>also openttd is no old game, it is a maintained game
12:29<Jinassi>they too have a free games section
12:31<Jinassi>shit, bbl
12:31<frosch123>boss visiting?
12:31<@peter1138>Bah, no ipv6 working.
12:33<Jinassi>ticket
12:35<Rubidium>keoz: just look through order_base.h and look what uses this->type. Then you'd find that it's used for stop location (or the comparison of conditional orders)
12:39<keoz>I saw about comparison conditional, but is it normal that a conditional bit is set in an order, whose type is OT_GOTO_STATION ?
12:39<keoz>(yes, I suppose it is)
12:39<Rubidium>you need to understand that a lot of bitstuffing is done there
12:40*keoz getting crazy.
12:40<Rubidium>based on one bit, the meaning of another bit means something completely differently
12:41<Rubidium>or in this case, based on bits 0..3, bits 4..7 mean something different. For OT_CONDITIONAL bits 5..7 are the comparator function, but for (most of) the others, bits 4 and 5 are the stop location whereas bits 6 and 7 are the non-stop type
12:42<keoz>That's what I understood so far
12:43<keoz>I mean, less clearly
12:43<keoz>but in this case, considering that stop location flags are depot specific, why do I have the bit 5 enabled in a GOTO_STATION order ?
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12:44<keoz>Oh shit. Understood the mistake
12:45<keoz>bits 4 and 5 are stop location for gotostation orders, nothing to do with depots
12:46<keoz>hence, 97 means goto station order, non stop at intermediate stations, and use the end platform
12:46<keoz>Well ... Thank you for clarifying, Rubidium !
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13:16<keoz>Hell. It works.
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13:24<Wolf01>moin
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13:43<andythenorth>o/
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15:09<andythenorth>la la la
15:11<frosch123>yay, thunderstorm!
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15:25<andythenorth>maybe here too
15:25<andythenorth>inky sky
15:25<andythenorth>despite probably 400 miles difference?
15:25<@peter1138>Ah... Minecraft banners... http://algoin.de/bngn/?=0.9-cs.9-bs.0-cbo.0-bts
15:25<andythenorth>lolwut
15:25<andythenorth>etc
15:25<andythenorth>also wtf?
15:31<LordAro>peter1138: surprised it took this long
15:33<andythenorth>hmm
15:34<andythenorth>how to decide if an industry is primary or secondary
15:34*andythenorth teddy-bear coding
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15:53<@planetmaker>good evening
15:54<@Alberth>evenink
15:54<frosch123>hallöle
15:54<@Alberth>andy, throw a dice?
15:55<frosch123>also thought that: if it shows V make it primary, if it shows A make it secondary
15:55<frosch123>we need a V/A dice
15:55<frosch123>or rather coin
15:58<@Alberth>@random 6
15:59<@Alberth>or perhaps @random V A
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16:03<andythenorth>well
16:04<andythenorth>I shall consider those, thanks
16:06<andythenorth>but I think I just add a new property, with strings for types :P
16:08<andythenorth>to 64 industries
16:08<andythenorth>boring
16:09<andythenorth>I could tape it together by mapping from other properties
16:09<andythenorth>but that will end badly
16:16<@Alberth>unfortunately, much programming isn't actually exciting :p
16:16<andythenorth>I get a bit stuck on design with stuff like this
16:17<andythenorth>too few properties = inflexibility
16:17<andythenorth>too many = combinatorial explosion
16:17<andythenorth>anyway, find + replace ftw
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16:19<@Alberth>don't relate properties with each other to prevent combinatorial explosion :)
16:19<andythenorth>trying not to :)
16:19<andythenorth>FIRS compiling is limited by my battery life
16:19<andythenorth>meh
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16:35<frosch123>night
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16:53<andythenorth>bye
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18:07<Wolf01>'night
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18:39<Eddi|zuHause>mäh, i converted my minecraft map from 1.4-ish to 1.7-ish and all the dogs stopped listening to me :/
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>also, i had to manually convert all the statistics and achievements :/
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18:48<Eddi|zuHause>also, new highscore on GIRP: 63,5m
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20:58<Eddi|zuHause>what ever happened to the "nightshift"?
20:59<Eddi|zuHause>everyone seems to go to bed at like 10...
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21:10<efess>the americans are lurking :)
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21:39<Eddi|zuHause>there are not a lot of americans here either
21:41<efess>I know at least one
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21:58<Eddi|zuHause>that's still only 1%
21:59<Eddi|zuHause>based on population (and technology bias), there should be roughly equal amounts of americans and europeans in here
21:59<efess>>= 1% at least
21:59<Eddi|zuHause>1 of 119 is not >= 1%
22:00<efess>true, didn't want to do the math :)
22:00<Eddi|zuHause>not a lot of maths in there :p
22:01<Eddi|zuHause>(why is there an 's' at the end of 'mathematics', anyway? there isn't one in greek, and there's also not one in german)
22:03<Eddi|zuHause>(and it's not a plural s either. it's "mathematics is hard", not "mathematics are hard")
22:04<efess>Could you have more than one mathematics?
22:05<Eddi|zuHause>depends on how philosophical you want this discussion to get
22:06<Eddi|zuHause>maths is born out of itself. and the only ways to change maths must come out of itself. so from a maths perspective, there is no point in discussion what's "outside" of maths, or if what there is "outside" of maths is another maths
22:08<Eddi|zuHause>in some matter, it's like discussion whether there is another universe
22:23*mikegrb american
22:25<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, one who has spoken like 5 lines in the last 5 years :p
22:27<Eddi|zuHause>2007: 19, 2008: 34, 2009: 11, 2010: 2, 2011: 0, 2012: 2, 2013: 6, 2014: 1
22:29<Eddi|zuHause>(ok that's 10 lines)
22:48<kero>In French, mathematics' "s", is a real plural. I would bet it comes from there.
22:48<kero>(yes, some other there around not sleeping :p)
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 29 00:00:48 2014