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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-08-06

---Logopened Wed Aug 06 00:00:08 2014
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03:00<V453000>what is the angle for landscape?
03:00<V453000>assuming flat land being 0
03:04<V453000>meh managed to grab it :)
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04:19<andythenorth>need one more ship
04:25<Pikkaphone>stick close to your desk
04:25<Pikkaphone>and never go to sea
04:26<Pikkaphone>and you all may be rulers of the Queen's Navy
04:26<andythenorth>oh it’s Pikkaphone
04:27<V453000>nice blog stuff Pikka
04:27<V453000>enjoyed reading very much
04:28<andythenorth>Pikkaphone: can I purchase boat renders for you?
04:28<andythenorth>I can deposit money in your bank account, you just need to send me $10k
04:28<andythenorth>for you?
04:28<andythenorth>from you *
04:29*andythenorth is bored of fiddly-diddly pixels
04:29<Pikkaphone>I have 10c, I could send you that
04:29<andythenorth>other people have been drawing them, but I don’t think I’m easy to work with :(
04:30<andythenorth>I keep binning their work
04:30<V453000>I would do the same if its shit andy :P
04:31<Pikkaphone>Andy:you'll have to get into 3derisms.
04:32<andythenorth>can’t I stick to code?
04:32<Pikkaphone>you can
04:32<andythenorth>anyway, I cut Squid down
04:32<andythenorth>23 ships
04:32<andythenorth>I might add one to make it 24, for neatness
04:32<Pikkaphone>just make red box editions from now on
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04:33<V453000>render boxes
04:34<V453000>people will be happy that they got MOAR PIXELZ
04:34<V453000>and you get shit done quickly
04:34<Pikkaphone>32bpp ez red boxes
04:35<Pikkaphone>with animated rivets
04:35<andythenorth>what this set really needs is another trawler, a fast one
04:35*andythenorth implodes
04:35<andythenorth>IT MUST BE 3 GROUPS OF 8
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04:35<TheBix>hey guys
04:36<TheBix>i've got an issue with cargo dist
04:36<TheBix>theres cargo left on a station for a destination which is not being serviced anymore
04:36<TheBix>whats the fix?
04:36<andythenorth>learn to ignore it :)
04:36<andythenorth>or demolish the station
04:36<Pikkaphone>it will disappear after a while, perhaps
04:37<TheBix>i take that back
04:37*andythenorth is trapped by NUMBERS
04:37<TheBix>the game worked it out and put it on a different train just after I asked the question
04:38<andythenorth>Pikkaphone: on the plus side, I might do AustraliaBoots
04:38<andythenorth>do you have boots in Australia?
04:38<andythenorth>I guess people got there somehow
04:39<Pikkaphone>we had a submarine in WWI
04:39<Pikkaphone>it sank
04:39<andythenorth>I might do a submarine roster
04:39<andythenorth>easy to draw
04:40<Pikkaphone>do a high speed submarine hovercraft
04:40*andythenorth ponders underwater hovering
04:41<Pikkaphone>it's all in the mind, you know
04:41<andythenorth>if $someone would draw a big fast cat ferry, I could include that
04:41<andythenorth>but nobody has
04:42<Pikkaphone>does it ferry big fast cats?
04:42<V453000>cats sound useful
04:44<Pikkaphone>tomorrow is going to be a long day :/
04:45<andythenorth>sleeping Pikkaphone ?
04:46<Pikkaphone>not yet. .. Not at home :) but tomorrow I'm ferrying friends around all day, before and after uni.
04:47*andythenorth solves Squid problem
04:47<andythenorth>tracking table now says “24: ADD SOMETHING HERE AFTER PLAY TESTING”
04:48<Pikkaphone>job done
04:48<andythenorth>tracking table is as good as a nod to a blind man
04:48<andythenorth>in the kingdom of the blind, even a one-eyed man is king
04:48<andythenorth>good book
04:48<Pikkaphone>cheap at half the price, doesn't it
04:49<andythenorth>don’t spoil it for hapeth of tar though
04:49*andythenorth had better go and toil
04:49<andythenorth>busy day deleting javascript, css and images
04:50<andythenorth>Pikkaphone: see you next time, bye
04:51<Pikkaphone>toodle pip
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04:59<V453000> ?:D
05:04<Pikkaphone>I don't know, I'll have a look at home
05:06<@peter1138>I see lines between different angles.
05:06<V453000>that is correct
05:06<V453000>for now
05:06<@peter1138>Looks weird :p
05:07<@peter1138>And the gridlines are... sort of there but sort of not there :D
05:07<TheBix>do stations and depots have path signals in them automatically?
05:08<V453000>that was kind of the point peter :P
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05:08<Pikkaphone>depots yes, stations no bix
05:09<Pikkaphone>although trains will wait for a path if they reverse
05:09<Pikkaphone>so you don't need signals on the platforms of a terminus
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05:11<TheBix>Pikkaphone, ah, that clears it up, thanks
05:12<TheBix>Pikkaphone, so then this should never deadlock:
05:12<TheBix>if a train chooses the depot to the left but then wants to go to the right for example
05:13<TheBix>because I watched that happen, and i used to have one way blocks where the two path signals in front of the depots were
05:13<TheBix>replacing them with paths was my fix
05:14<Pikkaphone>path signals are always best :p
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05:39<ATS63>I come with more stupid questions! Huzzah
05:40<TheBix> okay now cargodist refuses to a load a train
05:40<TheBix>its giving it all to one train
05:40<ATS63>Do you guys play random generated maps? Or scenarios?
05:40<TheBix>but notthe other
05:41<ATS63>Random was driving me nuts. Particulary the road layout of towns
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06:30<Eddi|zuHause>TheBix: that usually happens when you don't use shared orders
06:31<TheBix>im not tho
06:31<TheBix>two different trains
06:31<TheBix>two different routes
06:31<TheBix>part of the same group, that's it
06:32<Eddi|zuHause>you might need to send the train out for one round trip, so it can estimate the capacity
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07:22<V453000>making a precise mask for all sloped tiles is hell ._.
07:22<V453000>zbase apparently leaves some amount of alpha on the edges
07:22<V453000>me wantz it precise
07:23<@peter1138>zbase also glitches
07:25<V453000>guess there is no easy way
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07:28<@peter1138>No easy way?
07:28<@peter1138>Easy way: don't have any alpha on any edges.
07:28<V453000>exactly, which is hell
07:28<V453000>you need to draw the pixel-precise mask
07:28<V453000>and make all hills fit to each other
07:28<V453000>in all combinations
07:28<@peter1138>Well... that's always needed.
07:29<V453000>kind of :)
07:29<V453000>if you just render it and leave alpha on the edge then it isnt needed
07:29<@peter1138>You can overlap a bit, but alpha on any edge is a no-no.
07:30<V453000>well edges of other objects might be okay
07:30<V453000>but land tiles definitely not
07:30<@peter1138>Yeah, only tiles "obviously" :)
07:30<V453000>I think best start would be to code one flat tile
07:31<V453000>to surely get the height distance between those two
07:31<V453000>actually that isnt necessary to code
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07:31<V453000>can take that from the game :).
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07:45<V453000>and the slope isnt right either
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08:12<@Alberth>V453000: perhaps you should send Zephyris a PM, he should know
08:12<V453000>yeah perhaps :)
08:14<@Alberth>V453000: ?
08:16<V453000>oh :) couldnt find it
08:16<V453000>will try right away
08:16<@peter1138>Pfft, just hand draw it all :D
08:20<V453000>WTF :D I got same height with 10m per tile
08:20<V453000>with 11,539 ._.
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08:21<V453000>well the angle should be correct
08:27<@Alberth>I am wondering where to put this information such that it is findable again
08:27<@Alberth>no guide on 3d modeling available yet, afaik
08:29<LordAro>Alberth: on the wiki! :p
08:29<V453000>idk, YETI has technical documentation on the devzone
08:29<V453000>this will probably be added there
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10:04<Eddi|zuHause>@calc atan(8/(16*sqrt(5))
10:04<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>@calc arctan(8/(16*sqrt(5))
10:04<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>@calc arctan(8/(16*sqrt(5)))
10:05<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Error: 'arctan' is not a defined function.
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>@calc atan(8/(16*sqrt(5)))
10:05<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0.219987977395
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>@calc atan(8/(16*sqrt(5)))*180/pi
10:05<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 12.6043826484
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>@calc atan(8/(16*2))*180/pi
10:05<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 14.0362434679
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>so 12.6° would be my try at a slope angle
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>a tile consists of 16 length units, each of which is 2 pixels left/right and 1 pixel up/down, so has a length of sqrt(2^2+1^2)
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>and there are 8 height units, each of which is 1 pixel up, so length 1
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11:23<andythenorth>does Rubidium or ${someone} actually want a macbook for testing?
11:24<andythenorth>we have about 12 in our office which will be selling
11:24<andythenorth>they’re not great spec
11:24<andythenorth>I could donate one to OpenTTD
11:24<andythenorth>and mail it
11:25<andythenorth>devs only :P
11:30<andythenorth>probly 2Ghz or so
11:30<Rubidium>PPC, x86 or x86_64?
11:30<@peter1138>You know it'll only end up with Linux installed on it...
11:31<@peter1138>Nobody's crazy enough to want to use OS X...
11:31<andythenorth>core duo or core 2 duo
11:31<Rubidium>s/use/support/ ?
11:31<andythenorth>2Gz - 2.4Ghz
11:32<andythenorth>Gz Gz Gz
11:33<Rubidium>the "problem" is that I don't fancy figuring out objective C and by extension Apple's API with all associated developer status and such
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11:34<andythenorth>I thought that might be the answer
11:34<andythenorth>someone might want it
11:34<Rubidium>so I don't seem myself fixing OS X bugs, and as such me getting such a computer would be worthless even though it is a very nice guesture
11:34<andythenorth>someone here has a really ancient macbook
11:34<andythenorth>is it fonso?
11:34<andythenorth>or michi?
11:35<Rubidium>I think fonso
11:35<andythenorth>fonsinchen: want a macbook update?
11:35<Rubidium>though I think he's on vacation right now
11:35<andythenorth>see ^^^
11:35<andythenorth>oh yeah, he said he was away
11:35<Rubidium>and maybe michi_cc is interested as well since he has been dabbling with fixing some OS X issues
11:38<andythenorth>the ones we could give away are late 2007, white plastic 13” macbook, 2Ghz core 2 duo, 4GB, (looks like 250GB drive)
11:38<andythenorth>only 7 years old :(
11:38<andythenorth>long time in cat years
11:40<@peter1138>Donate them all to OpenTTD...
11:40<@peter1138>It would beat my 1.6 GHz P4 laptop...
11:41<andythenorth>definitely have 1
11:41<andythenorth>might have 2
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11:42<andythenorth>lo DanMacK :D
11:42<andythenorth>DanMacK: you are very naughty
11:42<andythenorth>I have been through my pms today
11:42<andythenorth>you have drawn about 30 — views of ships
11:43<andythenorth>and no other views :D
11:43<DanMacK>so... Im lazy lol
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11:43<@Alberth>would pixeltool help here?
11:44<andythenorth>interesting thought
11:44<@peter1138>Does pixeltool work for full-zoom?
11:44<DanMacK>hmmm never thought of that
11:45<andythenorth>might do
11:45<andythenorth>or can be made to
11:45<andythenorth>it’s voxely
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14:07<Wolf01>hi hi
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14:29<Eddi|zuHause>"of the 20 answers from a magic 8-ball, 10 are 'yes', 5 are 'no' and 5 are wishy-washy"
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15:49<andythenorth>hello bears
15:49<andythenorth>where is cat?
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>in my konsole. reading my files.
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15:53<andythenorth>V453000: M-Tron magnet factory
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16:02<andythenorth>in sets where you can choose a roster of vehicles (mine)
16:03<andythenorth>which is the better a14 parameter gui implementation
16:03<andythenorth>(A) 1 param per roster: on | off
16:03<andythenorth>(B) n parameters, for each, select from list: [rosters]
16:04<andythenorth>(C) the one I didn’t think of yet which is better
16:04<frosch123>you asked that before :)
16:04<andythenorth>I didn’t like the answer
16:05<frosch123>B is the worst
16:05<frosch123>A looks easy to me
16:05<andythenorth>A is the easiest
16:05<frosch123>like heqs
16:05<andythenorth>means I can’t enforce any limit
16:05<frosch123>disable weird rail vehicles and such
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know about "better", but in CETS i have a selector "[none], all, all <region1>, <company1>, <company2>, <company3>, all <region2>, <company4>, ..."
16:05<andythenorth>authors imposing limits alwasys goes well
16:06<frosch123>german town names also has various regional things
16:06<frosch123>not sure whether that works for andy
16:06<andythenorth>A is easiest
16:06<frosch123>depends on whether some rosters fit better with each other than with others
16:07<frosch123>andythenorth: just make "off" the default
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>A is fine, if you have, say, less than 7
16:07<frosch123>will restrict stuff for most players :p
16:07<andythenorth>I don’t care about rosters fitting together :)
16:07<andythenorth>it would be possibly interesting to be able to assign roster to specific company
16:07<andythenorth>can we do that yet?
16:08<frosch123>maybe you could select different game modes
16:08<andythenorth>assigning just increases the burden of setting up an MP game
16:08<andythenorth>and our experience is that it takes ~40mins to set up an MP game already
16:08<frosch123>only one dropdown: allow selecting "wide range of capacities", "wide range of speeds", ...
16:08<frosch123>i..e. allow selecting what criterion ships differ by
16:09<andythenorth>nice idea
16:09<andythenorth>but rosters
16:09<frosch123>do you have examples for rosters?
16:09<andythenorth>matches to Iron Horse, Road Hog, and approximate, FIRS economies
16:09<andythenorth>each set only has a ‘brit’ roster right now
16:09<andythenorth>which is designed for temperate, with FIRS Temperate Basic
16:09<andythenorth>but you can make your own choices
16:10<frosch123>then go for "select single roster" :)
16:10<frosch123>no "full firs" :p
16:10<andythenorth>hey, I could do that ‘make a weird controller grf’ thing :D
16:11<frosch123>you only get the premium models when also using firs?
16:11*andythenorth actually has a serious idea
16:12<andythenorth>make a grf that lets server owners assign rosters to companies across all my grfs
16:12<andythenorth>but the a14 gui only permits a choice of one roster in each the grfs via the ui
16:14<andythenorth>a grf can set a parameter in another grf?
16:14<andythenorth>lame :)
16:14<frosch123>a grf can read parameters of other grfs
16:14<frosch123>non-static grfs only ofc
16:14<andythenorth>not lame
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>well if you try to check the existence of a static grf, the static grf will be disabled
16:16<andythenorth>so for now I’ll do a single parameter
16:18*andythenorth looks at CETS
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16:20<andythenorth>so I could do ‘Brit’, ‘Euro’, ‘Brit + Euro’, ‘(US) Great Lakes’, ‘(US) Pacific NW’, ‘All US’
16:20<andythenorth>that might work
16:21<andythenorth>bit realistic
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>there should be some kind of visible logic behind it
16:30<andythenorth>real regions is the most obvious
16:30<andythenorth>bit blah though
16:30<andythenorth>where is V453000 when you actually need him
16:32<frosch123>probably drinking beer
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17:14<andythenorth>is there a trivial way in nml to check OR on params in an if block?
17:14<andythenorth>if (param_roster==1 || param_roster==0) ?
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>i'd check the operator priorities
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>you don't want to check the expression (param_roster == (1 || param_roster) == 0)
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17:16<andythenorth>I can do it another way by repeating the if blocks
17:17<andythenorth>but I’d rather have an elegant way
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>so have you tried it yet?
17:18<andythenorth>doing it now
17:21<andythenorth>appears to work
17:24<NGC3982>I have no idea if you guys know about this
17:24<NGC3982>But i play with the official Reddit /r/openttd client on the servers they provice.
17:24<NGC3982>provide*. For some reason, i get massive CPU usage while playing.
17:24<NGC3982>The NewGRF, map size and such are no different, as far as i can see.
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>we do not support inofficial builds
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>even if they call themselves official
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>(or especially)
17:25<NGC3982>I'm not seeking any official answer
17:25<NGC3982>I'm simply interested in what kind of sorcery can make that happend. :)
17:25<andythenorth>they are using your computer as a botnet
17:25<andythenorth>or for bitcoin mining
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17:25<andythenorth>earning $0.02 / hour
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>exactly. anything we could come up with wouldn't be more plausible than that...
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17:27<NGC3982>It must be some kind of patch wizardry.
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>well you know more about their patches than we do
17:30<NGC3982>What, are you trying some kind of haiku?
17:30<NGC3982>This is why we can't have nice things.
17:30<NGC3982>My question spurs "Are changes in local clients possible like that, or does this indicate my computer dying the heat death".
17:30<NGC3982>Not some kind of quasi science lesson.
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>try increasing the sprite cache
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>especially if you're using 32bpp base sets or newgrfs
17:32*andythenorth -> bed
17:32<andythenorth>quitting while ahead
17:32<andythenorth>am I ahead?
17:32<andythenorth>I have a head
17:32<andythenorth>my head is headed for bed
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>you haven't threatened to delete everything and start over yet
17:32<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: I'll try it. Thank you.
17:32<andythenorth>it’s usually an empty threat
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>that seems to be "aherad"
17:32<andythenorth>except for BANDIT
17:33<andythenorth>poor old BANDIT
17:33<andythenorth>never even got an alpha
17:34<andythenorth>also bed
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17:54<Eddi|zuHause>i'll go screw everything up now.
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause>that was easy...
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---Logclosed Thu Aug 07 00:00:12 2014