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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-08-07

---Logopened Thu Aug 07 00:00:12 2014
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07:40<ATS63>Are there a list of ECS based scenarios anywhere?
07:41<ATS63>Or, can someone recommend a fun scenario?
07:41<V453000>Generate Map is a good scenario
07:42<ATS63>Nah. It can be lame. I'm getting tired of having more steel mills and power stations than mines
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07:43<ATS63>I started building a scenario but it seemed like cheating. I couldn't sway myself to make the difficulty anything beyond "extremely easy" :/
07:44<ATS63>Also the road layouts in towns on a random map sux
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07:46<V453000>know about a "default roads for towns setting"
07:46<V453000>and if you ignore steel mills they will die anyway XD
07:47<ATS63>moar mines
07:47<keoz>ATS63 : write some script/code change allowing a better random industry distribution.
07:48<ATS63>ooooh... road layout for new towns. Thanks for that, didn't know
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07:51<keoz>V453000 : ignoring steel mills will let them die, but other will be created and the proportion of steel mills will stay the same. There's a target number for each industry type.
07:51<ATS63>Urgh, this webchat is broken :(
07:52<ATS63>Heh. I got the Australia scenario. Kind of funky. Least I know my way around
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07:57<V453000>keoz: sure but he could still ignore them :P
07:58<keoz>sure :)
08:01<keoz>Actually, I'm thinking, changing that proportion is quite trivial. Well, at least in a GRF as FIRS, written in plain text nml. Just need to change the prob_in_game and prob_random properties.
08:03<keoz>(that's how I got rid of all overnumerary hotels ...)
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08:25<ATS63>urgh... keeps dropping my connection
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08:48<ATS65>Is it possible to apply newgrf's to a scenario? As in, it has none applied when I downloaded it, but I want to apply some
08:48<V453000>I think you need to start scenario editor with these newGRFs set in main menu
08:51<ATS65>Hmm.... doesn't do it... but apparently I can save the heightmap, and then load it in one I made... I just have to place towns/cities
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09:25<ATS63>Hmm, well thats an improvement... I could probably improve this scenario a bit. There were no industries. So I placed all the resources where they should be :D
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11:56<keoz>mmh ... when making "hg incoming" on several projects hosted on I have a "HTTP Error 502: Bad Gateway" error, while the site is accessible with the browser. What's going on ?
11:56<keoz>(projects: firs and ttrs)
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11:57<@Alberth>something is broken? :)
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12:01<@Alberth>http is not working here either, so the devzone server may be failing here
12:01<@Alberth>not much to do than wait for some one to fix it, I am afraid
12:02<keoz>Is not urgent anyway. Was just wondering.
12:02<@Alberth>good to report it
12:02<@Alberth>there were also problems with the server earlier this week
12:02<@Alberth>so maybe this slipped through
12:02<@Alberth>or it borked again
12:04<@Alberth>spike is currently the only available sysadmin, and I just highlighted him to alert him of the problem
12:04<keoz>Anyway. About IsChainInDepot(). You're probably right, I was probably mistaken. :p
12:05<@Alberth>ok, so the docs were correct :)
12:05<@Alberth>you're going to try using that now?
12:05<keoz>Not still sure but I already had a better look and it seems that the problem I had using it comes from somewhere else
12:06<keoz>(I mean: not from it returning true while the vehicle goes out)
12:06<@Alberth>although I somewhat fail to understand why you'd want to wait in a depot, but that may be just me
12:06<keoz>A lot of trams in a city. They overtaken often each other.
12:07<keoz>when timetabled. And it's quite hard to reorder them properly.
12:07<@Alberth>ah, sort of a "fix time table order" thingie
12:07<keoz>Completely about that.
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12:08<keoz>I think it's possible use completely depends by the game style.
12:08<@Alberth>timetables are quite useless to me, I service industries rather than cities, and I play with breakdowns enabled
12:09<@Alberth>the latter make any form of timetable ..... let's say sub-useful :p
12:09<keoz>I never used timetables initially, I use them more and more with time.
12:09<@Alberth>for pax it seems to work nicely
12:10<keoz>Perfectly, even. I think a proper timetabled network helps to have a better throughput
12:10<@Alberth>except setting them up is quite tedious, and it fails to handle adding more trains etc
12:10<keoz>there are a lot of little improvments which can help. Waiting in depot is just the first step :p
12:11<keoz>btw. If I understand it correctly, you also find it better to use IsChainInDepot() as way to check train state, as creating a new order type, such as the OT_WAITING that I did ?
12:12<@Alberth>no idea tbh
12:12<@Alberth>zuu seems to think so
12:12<@Alberth>I never looked at train/order code, so no idea what is done there
12:13<keoz>It's quite hard. I find it. A lot of intertwined code.
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>may be time to untangle it :)
12:13<keoz>Order code, vehicle movement code, timetable code.
12:13<@Alberth>it's just that the function name and your test conclusions didn't match with my expectations
12:13<keoz>Yes, I see.
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12:14<keoz>Eddi|zuHause : it becomes easier when you understand that to understand how things happens, you always need to start from the vehicles Controllers :p
12:14<@Alberth>keoz: everybody build a little extra to the existing code, instead of making a long patch queue for moving it to a better structure
12:15<keoz>Well it's also the first time I have a look at a such complexe code. So, hard for me to make comparisons.
12:15<@Alberth>trains is probably the more complicated part
12:16<@Alberth>possibly together with network code, but that's mostly written by one person, so that may be less messy
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>if you're going to restructure/rewrite the internal order handling, keep the following future applications in mind: holding patterns for aircraft with either a priority or timetable attached, evaluating the next order before selecting a platform to stop at, evaluating the next order before leaving and staying if returning to the same order, composing a timetable from several partially prepared routes, ...
12:25<keoz>Eddi|zuHause : you have spare time, haven't you ? :-)
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>not in the way you'd like :p
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12:27<@Alberth>tbh I have been thinking about breaking up orders into smaller elements. We now try to squeeze everything into a single line/command, but it may be easier to understand and represent if you can write it in smaller partial orders
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12:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but it should probably not result in a programming language
12:28<@Alberth>but it's just a wild idea
12:29<@Alberth>"if" statements are so tempting :p
12:29<Nathan1852>I have problems with running a OpenTTD Server on linux, could someone maybe help me?
12:29<@Alberth>perhaps if you explain the problem?
12:30<@Alberth>although it's usually firewall crap, which is router/modem specific :p
12:30<Nathan1852>I put all the files on the server and want so start it with SSH. But i just get bash: openttd: command not found everytime i try to start it
12:31<@Alberth>where is openttd located?
12:31<Nathan1852>in an OpenTTD folder
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>on linux you have to write "./openttd" instead of "openttd", if you want to start a program from the current directory
12:32<@Alberth>or type /usr/somewhere/openttd
12:32<@Alberth>but cd /usr/somwhere ; ./openttd is a bit simpler to handle, as files that you may need are simple to reach then
12:33<Nathan1852>ok, now i have 'error while loading shared libraries:'
12:33<@Alberth>install sdl :)
12:34<@Alberth>probably with the package manager
12:35<@Alberth> seems useful
12:36<@Alberth>although it seems to assume you are building a binary from source rather than just running the standard program
12:38<@Alberth> this is the list of stuff it loads for the openttd-1.4.1-linux-generic-amd64 version here
12:41<Nathan1852>thx. I got the installation of the sdl lib to work
12:43<Nathan1852>You wouldn't by any chance know the command to install the libfontconfig, would you?
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12:44<Eddi|zuHause>that depends on which distribution you use
12:45<@Alberth>*BSD is somewhat a description, except you only need the *-dev packages when you compile from source
12:47<@Alberth>instead you want the normal packages (without -dev in the name)
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12:51<Nathan1852>That helped me a little bit :/
12:52<Nathan1852>Exept that the command descibed there don't seem to work
12:53<keoz>which one ?
12:54<@Alberth>Nathan1852: you are aware that "it doesn't work" gives extremely few clues on giving further assistance, right?
12:55<Nathan1852>Yes, sorry. The command descibed as: "yum-builddep openttd -y" dosn't work, since the server dosn't seem to know yum-builddep
12:56<keoz>you are using fedora ?
12:56<keoz>what's your linux distro ?
12:56<Nathan1852>It is a Server hosted by Creeperhost, i don't know exactly what they use but yum seems to work
12:56<@Alberth>yum list fontconfig <-- you can ask yum for the package names
12:57<@Alberth>suse also yum iirc
12:57<keoz>Never used any yumming distro for myself.
12:57<@Alberth>maybe you're using centos or RH server stuff, you're in for a big ride then :p
12:58<@Alberth>keoz: but it's yummy ! :)
12:58<Nathan1852>the other yum commands on the side worked, only the -builddep doesn#t
12:58<keoz>Well ... Having no clue about it, I'll believe you. For myself, I'm happy with pacman :-)
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12:59<@Alberth>Nathan1852: it seems part of yum-utils
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13:03<Nathan1852>Seems like yum-utils isn't installed
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13:05<@Alberth>yum install yum-utils :)
13:07<Nathan1852>i just did that. and still don't have yum-builddep
13:07<@Alberth>rehash, or start a new shell
13:08<@Alberth>your shell is "smart" and it remembers (incorrectly) that you don't have that command
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>one would expect that a package manager would call that by itself
13:10<Nathan1852>Wait. It seems like yum-builddep is installed. But when i call it, it only echos 'No such packages: openttd'
13:14<@Alberth>depending on what distribution you have, the central repository may or may not have games included in the package list
13:15<Nathan1852>Which means?
13:16<@Alberth>I can imagine that some server-oriented distribution doesn't come with a openttd game package in their repository, which means you cannot install openttd by yum
13:17<@Alberth>ie the list packages of yum comes from somewhere, so someone has decided what to add to it and what not
13:17<keoz>The easiest way is still probably to compile it.
13:18<Nathan1852>And how would i do that? I'm sorry that i have that many questions :/ And thank you all very much for your help
13:20<@Alberth>follow the wiki page, mostly
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13:20<keoz>Well basically, you need the build tools, such as make, gcc, and several libraries. All of this should normally be easy to install via yum. Once you have that, you get the source, you untar it, you enter, "./configure" and "make"
13:20<@Alberth>except the "automatic" way to get all libraries fails
13:21<keoz>You can tell yourself that knowing how to build a software is always a good thing :)
13:25<Nathan1852>Ok, now i installed the fontconfig lib (which created the error bevor) but it still says it is missing
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13:26<keoz>There are several dependencies, listed in the wiki. Did you install them all ?
13:27<Nathan1852>I think so. I called the command in the manually section of the wiki for fedora
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13:28<@Alberth>hi hi
13:28<Wolf01>hi hi
13:29<keoz>Nathan1852 : when you have an error, it is better to paste it completely (here or in some pastebin, if it is long).
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>likely it's a version mismatch
13:31<keoz>Or the wiki uncomplete: it doesn't mention anything about fontconfig for fedora.
13:32<keoz>(well, also ... It's probable not fedora, actually)
13:32<Rubidium>it seems to miss it for ALL RPM based distros
13:34<@Alberth> euhm? /me has it
13:34<keoz>Maybee fontconfig is already those distros as default.
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13:35<Rubidium>Alberth: I was replying to keoz, and the context of it would have been the wiki page
13:35<@Alberth>writing too many topics at the same time :)
13:36*NGC3982 hands out beer.
13:37<@Alberth>keep it away from V's , or it may disappear very quickly :)
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13:37<Rubidium>NGC3982: did you hand it out to NetBSD devs too?
13:37-!-Hazzard [] has joined #openttd
13:38<NGC3982>They do not deserve it.
13:41<Rubidium>exactly... they got 4 patches to add ICU, PNG, ZLIB, XZ, LZO, freetype, fontconfig and SDL as dependencies to strgen, settingsgen and depend...
13:41<Nathan1852>I have the version Alberth has in his list
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26722 trunk/src/lang/malay.txt (2014-08-07 17:45:31 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>malay - 3 changes by TheITChap
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 1 changes by
13:46<frosch123>he, why are they not supporting allegro?
13:46<frosch123>and what about timidy?
13:46<frosch123>can't you listen to music while compiling ottd?
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>Nathan1852: maybe thebinary you're trying to run expects a different version
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>Nathan1852: maybe you should search for a repository providing openttd instead of unpacking some random file from the internet
13:52<@Alberth> like the standard fedora repo :)
13:54<Nathan1852>To be sure, what should i do with that now?
13:55<@Alberth>if you want to install it, yum install openttd would be my guess
13:55<Nathan1852>'No package openttd available'
13:56<@Alberth>which should come with all dependencies that you need
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>Nathan1852: there should be a command to list all currently installed repos
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13:58<@Alberth>yum is a little picky, it needs the number stuff too, for x86_64 architecture yum install openttd.x86_64-1.4.1-1.fc20 or so
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14:01<Nathan1852>Ok, i have a list of the repos
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14:06<Nathan1852>so, is there a link to the repo anywhere?
14:17<@Alberth>hi andy
14:18<@Alberth>no idea, I use "yumex", a graphical interface to the repositories
14:19<@Alberth>but may know
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14:20<keoz>Nathan1852 : it probably would be worth taking some time to better learn how your package manager (yum) works.
14:20<keoz>I don't know about your specific distro, but in a lot of them, there are different repository level and you need to properly configure all of that to have some software.
14:21<@Alberth> there is a lot of documentation available
14:22<keoz>You should at least know what repository/of what distro you are using right now, before trying to use another repository.
14:32<andythenorth>where is cat?
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14:34<@Alberth>if there are mice dancing on the table, she is away
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14:43<andythenorth>there are
14:43<andythenorth>what should I do?
14:43<@peter1138>Charge a viewing fee.
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14:47<@peter1138>$5 to happy-dude.
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16:16*andythenorth ponders Dear Old Blighty
16:16<andythenorth>I think I prefer This Sceptred Isle
16:17<andythenorth>That will edumacate them
16:18*andythenorth that will bamboozle the translators too
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16:20<andythenorth>so what boats do they have in Europe?
16:21<andythenorth>big ones? small ones?
16:22<Wolf01>night ones
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16:36<andythenorth>rotor ships :o
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---Logclosed Fri Aug 08 00:00:16 2014