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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-08-13

---Logopened Wed Aug 13 00:00:34 2014
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03:19<keoz>hi
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04:05<Wolf01>hello o/
04:05<__ln__>the daily wolf
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06:09<keoz>Squirrel/GS question: How can I check for the existence of a table slot in an if statement (thus avoiding to try to access to an inexistent element ?)
06:13<@planetmaker>No idea about squirrel... but can you check type or size?
06:25<keoz>According to http://forum.squirrel-lang.org/default.aspx?g=posts&t=1981, it's not possible. Well it's not a big problem, I just wanted to perform that check while temporarily changing the savegame data format.
06:34<@planetmaker>well, you probably need not worry much about existing savegames. They'll be continued with the old version of the script, thus no problem. Hence, for new ones, you can simply use a new data format, if you need it
06:39<keoz>mmh actually I just found it: rawin(key)
06:40<keoz>But basically yes, it's not necessary.
06:41<LadyHawk>[13/8][02:45:16] -NickServ- This hostname matches an entry on the access list of nickname LadyHawk. You
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06:41<LadyHawk><3
06:41*LadyHawk has a "moment" with nickserv
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07:59<keoz>mmh... There is no possible context, where a city might be deleted in game, apart from the scenario editor ?
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08:11<@planetmaker>that's right, KenjiE20
08:11<@planetmaker>err... keoz
08:21<keoz>O, planetmaker. That's better for my GS :p
08:21<keoz>s/O/Ok/
08:22<keoz>Mmh. Actually, I'm telling myself, it'd be nice, also handling the case of deleting a city in scenario editor.
08:24<keoz>Mmh. But there is no GSEvent for that. But actually, doesn't matter. Deleted city's saved data will just no be used next time.
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09:47<@planetmaker>keoz, you really have found your "peace of code"? ;)
09:48<@planetmaker>I envy you
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10:49<MTsPony>Is there a way to load static grfs before the normal ones, rather then after?
10:52<@planetmaker>I would have thought that they're loaded first. But I know no way to influence the ordering
10:54<MTsPony>damn.
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10:54<MTsPony>perhaps place [static-grf] entry before the current active section?
10:55<MTsPony>Or did nobody ever think about ordering grf
10:55<MTsPony>when it comes to statics :p
10:55<@planetmaker>try it and see :)
10:55<@planetmaker>the latter is an absolutely possible scenario
10:56<MTsPony>:(
10:56<@planetmaker>given that static newgrfs are not accessible even from ingame (where they damn well should be configurable)
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10:57<MTsPony>yes they are accesible from ingame.
10:57<MTsPony>i can even change the order of the loaded static grf in game
10:58<MTsPony>they just have a different color in the list
11:00<LordAro>planetmaker: well you know what people say to that... ;)
11:09<Rubidium>if you are able to move static NewGRFs before non-static ones, then that's a bug. If static NewGRFs can be loaded before non-static NewGRFs, then that is a bug as well
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11:09<Rubidium>since either case potentially breaks multiplayer
11:17<@planetmaker>hm... true. They must be loaded or they could be checked-for
11:17<@planetmaker>*loaded last
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12:30<@Alberth>evenink
12:32<frosch123>hola
12:48<LordAro>quk
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14:15<@Alberth>hi hi
14:15<andythenorth>o/
14:19<andythenorth>so I have two of these to donate to ottd devs (assuming anyone actually wants one)
14:19<andythenorth>http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.0-white-13-late-2007-santa-rosa-specs.html
14:19<andythenorth>4GB RAM
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14:27<LordAro>"*This system can run the last version of OS X 10.7 "Lion" if upgraded to at least 2 GB of RAM. It is not supported booting into 64-bit mode when running Mac OS X 10.6 "Snow Leopard." It does not support "OpenCL" either. Please also note that OS X Lion is not capable of running Mac OS X apps originally written for the PowerPC processor as it does not support the "Rosetta" environment."
14:27<LordAro>probably relevant
14:28<LordAro>not that i know macs at all
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14:31<andythenorth>stuck on OS 10.7.5
14:31<andythenorth>won’t go to Mavericks (10.9)
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14:45<@planetmaker>Well... Not sure how much I'll actually get to developement on OSX in the future. But I sure could use it as test machine for the semi-new OSXe. Not sure how long my 10.6 incarnation will still survive
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14:51<andythenorth>isn’t your Mac newer than that anyway? :o
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14:55<@planetmaker>nope
14:55<@planetmaker>it's about the same
14:55<@planetmaker>and I'm fearing for about a year that it'll die due to overheat
14:56<@planetmaker>probably mine is slightly older even
14:56<@planetmaker>it originally shipped with 10.4
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14:58<@planetmaker>I even upgraded it from 1MByte RAM to 2
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15:01<andythenorth>ideally there would be something running mavericks
15:01<andythenorth>but I can’t afford to give those away :P
15:01<andythenorth>they’re still worth 20%-50% of purchase price, used
15:01<@planetmaker>yeah, they keep value quite nicely
15:02<@planetmaker>also, it's not like they don't work anymore :)
15:02<andythenorth>for some definitions of ‘work’ :)
15:03<@planetmaker>http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.1-white-13-early-2008-penryn-specs.html <-- I believe this is about mine. So to my surprise might be slightly newer...
15:03<@planetmaker>And yes, it still works. And damn well, please works till at least end of this month. I need it during travel
15:03<andythenorth>:)
15:04<@planetmaker>It's the device which knows all the presentations I gave in the last near-decade :P
15:05<Rubidium>I hope there's another device that knows that as well ;)
15:05<Rubidium>a thumbdrive or so
15:07<@planetmaker>it's mirrored to my desktop. But they mostly would be useless without a mac
15:08<Rubidium>yay vendor lock-in
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15:08<andythenorth>pays your money, takes your choice
15:08<@planetmaker>file format reasons, yes
15:08<andythenorth>English saying
15:09*andythenorth looks for something interesting on internet
15:10<andythenorth>hmm nothing
15:11<@Alberth>that's normal :p
15:11<@planetmaker>http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.0-white-13-specs.html <-- actually that's closer. And thus I remembered correctly... a year older than yours ;)
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15:17<@planetmaker>need to waste time, andythenorth? Listen to nerd song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kXkWXSXRA&feature=share
15:20<andythenorth>time duly wasted ;)
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15:20<@planetmaker>:P
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15:31<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r26729 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2014-08-13 19:31:45 UTC)
15:31<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Warn about missing industries after generating a map.
15:33<@planetmaker>\o/
15:33<lastmikoi>Hello there, I'm having some issues with NewGRFs and a dedicated server setup under Centos6 (OpenTTD 1.4.1) : I tried installing with the built-in "content" command, then tried importing my OpenTTD client settings, but neither of theses methods allowed me to host a game with my installed NewGRF /active/.
15:34<Taede>ello
15:34<@planetmaker>hi
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15:35<@planetmaker>lastmikoi, you need on the server the exact same versions of the NewGRF as you use in the map which you try to load
15:35<@Alberth>openttd client is a windows machine, and uses \ in its paths instead of the / thingies in unix?
15:35<lastmikoi>I ran my openttd with "-D -d grf=1 -d misc=2" in order to troubleshoot this problem, and it's successfully scanning NewGRFs, without activating them (Even if I'm using my openttd.conf with proper [newgrf] settings)
15:35<@planetmaker>If you used any NewGRF which is not found in our online content, that won't succeed. Also it won't download all versions of every content but only the newest version thereof
15:36<lastmikoi>planetmaker: Indeed, but even if I'm generating a new map, the game just starts without any mods
15:37<@planetmaker>despite your server's openttd.cfg listing some NewGRFs in its [newgrf] section?
15:37<lastmikoi>It only list them when I'm importing my configuration
15:37<@planetmaker>Did you try to specify the used cfg explicitly via command line parameter -c
15:37<@planetmaker>what do you mean with "importing your configuration"?
15:37<lastmikoi>but the -misc=2 loglevel shows about successfully scanning NewGRFs
15:38<lastmikoi>Wait a second, I'm about to feel really dumb if Alberth is right.
15:38<@planetmaker>close down the server. Modify or rewrite your cfg on the server then. Then restart the server
15:38<@planetmaker>The server will rewrite its cfg upon exit with the currently used cfg. If that's w/o NewGRF and you changed the cfg on the disk in between, that will be overwritten
15:39<lastmikoi>Yeah I noticed that.
15:41<lastmikoi>mhh, no, even if I switch '\' to '/' in the [newgrf] section, the server is not taking that into account.
15:41<lastmikoi>and closes then empties the [newgrf] section like nothing has been there
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15:42<@planetmaker>That means the files aren't found
15:42<@planetmaker>Are you sure you used the newest version as available from our online content?
15:42<@planetmaker>and did you really download them successfully? Are they in the content_download/newgrf dir?
15:43<lastmikoi>dbg: [misc] Found tar '/home/openttd/.openttd/content_download/newgrf/CHIPS_Station_Set-1.4.0.tar' with 4 new files
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15:43<lastmikoi>I'll pastebin my server output, to simplify.
15:44<@planetmaker>that indicates that it found CHIPS 1.4 indeed
15:44<@planetmaker>upon startup
15:44<lastmikoi>http://pastebin.com/zLf2tB4e
15:44<@planetmaker>not that it's one NewGRF being used, though
15:45<lastmikoi>Yup, so I modified the [newgrf] section hoping it would /use/ my downloaded newgrfs, without success
15:46<@planetmaker>well, what did your [newgrf] section look like?
15:46<@planetmaker>chips.grf =
15:46<@planetmaker>^ I'd expect
15:46<@planetmaker>as an example
15:47<@planetmaker>hm... that's outdated, I see :)
15:48<lastmikoi>http://pastebin.com/BE9kMP09
15:48<@planetmaker>414E0101|5D665C64693A438E3046C22666F46E08|fish_ship_set-0.9.2/fish.grf =
15:48<@planetmaker>^ maybe that format, too. Dunno when we changed the format :)
15:49<lastmikoi>Yeah that's why I thought importing the config section from my windows client was a viable Idea
15:49<lastmikoi>(same version, supposedly same format)
15:50<@planetmaker>ok, so we changed the config file format after OpenTTD 1.4. Same version, same format, that's right
15:50<@planetmaker>except path delimiter
15:50<lastmikoi>yup, but that didn't worked either
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15:52<lastmikoi>Okay, now it's working. I must have f*ed something earlier.
15:52<lastmikoi>so Alberth was right
15:52<@planetmaker>he is often right ;)
15:52<lastmikoi>:)
15:53<@Alberth>I just watched and learned from master glx :p
15:54<lastmikoi>perfect, I'll just need to fix this "conflicting trainset grf found" issue and I'll be ready to play, thanks to both of you ;)
15:54<@Alberth>yw
15:55<@Alberth>planetmaker: I think there are more map settings that are not independent, in my view at least the industry density is one
15:57<@planetmaker>Alberth, in what way independent? You mean in order to ensure that the map will be actually playable in terms of towns / all industries /... ?
15:58<@Alberth>hmm, depends perhaps on how bad you think it is to have too many industries :)
16:00<@Alberth>I wonder what happens with dense industries and 80% water :p
16:02<@planetmaker>the same as with dense industries and 10% water: most land covered by industries :P
16:02<@Alberth>:P
16:03<@planetmaker>oh... and MAAANY oil rigs (if time and climate allows)
16:03<@planetmaker>happy shipping times ahead. Just missing: "disaster: oil spill"
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16:04<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/Mars, sub-arctic, 1960-09-16.png like this? :)
16:05<@Alberth>mars height map in arctic, it's all above snow level, except this area
16:05<LordAro>heh
16:05<@planetmaker>yeah, the large Southern impact basin is really low ;)
16:06<@planetmaker>and yes, that looks familiar
16:06<@Alberth>you made it, didn't you? :)
16:06<@planetmaker>well... I adopted it for OpenTTD. It's an actual elevation model
16:07<@Alberth>oh, nice :)
16:07<@planetmaker>The readme knows better where I grabbed it on some nasa site than I recall :)
16:07<@Alberth>I was talking about Mars ;)
16:07<@planetmaker>yeah
16:08*planetmaker , too :)
16:09<@planetmaker>http://www.lpi.usra.edu/science/treiman/greatdesert/workshop/marsmaps1/marsmaps1_imgs/mola_color_4.jpg <-- based on that data
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16:10<@planetmaker>Mars' "problem" is its gigantic elevation range, compared to its size in relation to other solar system bodies
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16:11<@planetmaker>Mountains 20km high, depressions 8km deep. That's about twice the topographic difference to Earth
16:11<@Alberth>yeah, -8k to +12k
16:11<@planetmaker>oh, ok +12 :)
16:11<@planetmaker>still, 20km :)
16:11<@planetmaker>We should flood it at 0 :)
16:11<frosch123>what's the relative height you are measing them too?
16:11<@planetmaker>Would make for two very distinct hemispheres
16:12<frosch123>what's your water level? :p
16:12<@planetmaker>dunno :) mean height?
16:13<frosch123>well, you say -8 to +12
16:13<@planetmaker>Looking at the valles marineris, it seems to be somewhat below mean height, somewhere in the darker turquoise range
16:13<@planetmaker>those numbers are deviation from mean
16:13<frosch123>so 0 is mean value?
16:13<frosch123>ok :)
16:13<@planetmaker>yeah, 0 is the reference ellipsoid
16:16<@Alberth>gn
16:16<@planetmaker>g'night, Alberth
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16:45<frosch123>night
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17:04<andythenorth>bye
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19:01<Wolf01>'night
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23:07<PePette>Sup everyone!
23:08<PePette>... Anyone? I might encounter some trouble and seek for help :/.
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23:32<PePette>Anyone here still alive/awake?
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23:54<PePette>Well, good night everyone.
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---Logclosed Thu Aug 14 00:00:38 2014