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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-08-14

---Logopened Thu Aug 14 00:00:38 2014
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03:47<Eddi|zuHause>i don't get it. everyone is starving for no reason...
03:47<TinoDidriksen>That's been the case for decades.
03:50<Eddi|zuHause>ah well... i suppose i start a new game and avoid all the noobthe mistakes
03:51<Eddi|zuHause>s/([^ ])the/\1/
03:52<Eddi|zuHause>game is called "banished"
03:53<Eddi|zuHause>sort of a "settlers meets the sims"
03:54<@peter1138>Is it free?
03:55<@peter1138>Release Date?
03:55<@peter1138>Banished will be available for purchase on February 18, 2014.
03:55<@peter1138>Hmm
03:55<@peter1138>Cos updating your website is hard :D
03:59<Eddi|zuHause>it's like 15€ in the right places
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04:03<Wolf01>hai
04:03<__ln__>no no, hai lives in the water
04:03<Eddi|zuHause>what's the easiest way to make an "installer" that automatically installs dosbox, copies over the program, and makes a link on the desktop that starts dosbox with the program, with least user interaction?
04:04<Wolf01>steam
04:04<__ln__>an rpm
04:05<Eddi|zuHause>preferably for windows :p
04:05<Eddi|zuHause>and preferably one where i have to write < 10 loc
04:15<Wolf01>a zip file with everything in it?
04:15<Wolf01>already configured
04:16<Wolf01>oh, I forgot the desktop shortcut, that is tricky
04:19<@peter1138>Ask GoG.
04:32<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose there's a variable that i can read from a .bat file where the desktop is?
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04:35<@peter1138>http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18629768/path-of-user-desktop-in-batch-files
04:35<@peter1138>Good luck :p
04:40<Xaroth|Work>Eddi|zuHause: banished is awesome
04:40<Xaroth|Work>there are a few tricks to it, and once you get those, people won't starve that easily anymore
04:40<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth|Work: i was in like year 30 or so...
04:41<Xaroth|Work>even still
04:41<Xaroth|Work>it builds up, very slowly, to a nice chasm of death and despair
04:41<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose my food supply didn't scale properly with the population
04:41<Xaroth|Work>you want to avoid explosive growth of population, and have space 'ready' for food production long before it's needed
04:42<Xaroth|Work>especially with nomads, once you get those, you want to ramp up food production asap
04:42<Xaroth|Work>or everybody will die a few years later
04:44<Eddi|zuHause>thing that annoys me is how they seem unable to focus on a task... they go out to pick stone, then pick it, then drop the stone and go back... or stuff
04:45<Xaroth|Work>also be weary of your farms; it might look like you have enough food at some points, but farm food comes in bursts, so the burst might seem adequate when winter comes, but it'll have to last until next winter; including growth etc
04:45<Xaroth|Work>and yeh, the AI isn't really -that- smart
04:46<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't have any farms, i had a peach orchard and a cattle and sheep pasture, some fish and hunter/gatherer
04:46<Eddi|zuHause>these farm seeds are expensive
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04:46<Xaroth|Work>it's not that bad
04:46<Xaroth|Work>gather firewood
04:46<Xaroth|Work>loooots of firewood
04:47<Xaroth|Work>I built one town that had no food production by itself
04:47<Xaroth|Work>it had ~12 trading posts
04:47<Xaroth|Work>and for the rest foresters and woodcutters
04:47<Xaroth|Work>traders come at a steady rate per trading post
04:47<Xaroth|Work>so i just kept buying ALL the food
04:47<Eddi|zuHause>i think i just came to that same conclusion: firewood is the best trade good, because it's easily reproducible
04:48<Xaroth|Work>i had around 80 storage barns full of food.. for not even 200 citizens :P
04:48<Eddi|zuHause>the next one would be clothes
04:48<Xaroth|Work>clothes is meh
04:48<Xaroth|Work>depends on sheep too much
04:48<Xaroth|Work>firewood can be produced anywhere
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04:48<Xaroth|Work>scaling up is easy and quick
04:48<Eddi|zuHause>the leather clothes is only 25% less
04:48<Eddi|zuHause>and you get leather from hunting
04:49<Eddi|zuHause>exporting tools seems like a stupid idea
04:55<Xaroth|Work>yeh
04:58<Eddi|zuHause>what's also annoying is that the trading post will suck up all available stuff, and leaves nothing for regular circulation
05:03<Xaroth|Work>er
05:03<Xaroth|Work>only if you tell it to
05:03<Xaroth|Work>you can set amounts
05:03<Xaroth|Work>set everything 0 except what you want to sell soon
05:03<Xaroth|Work>(makes for awesome temp storage if your barns/piles are full)
05:05<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but i can't tell it to "stockpile 1000 firewood, for when the next merchant comes along. but leave 100 in storage"
05:05<Xaroth|Work>true
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06:30<Pikkaphone>so
06:35<@planetmaker>so so
06:38<Pikkaphone>so so so your boat
06:43*LordAro floods Pikkaphone's boat
06:44<LordAro>o/
06:50<Eddi|zuHause>whatever floods your boat?
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07:05<Pikkaphone>sometimes
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07:41<krinn>hi guys, anyone up to look at a nasty list.Begin() bug?
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07:49<Pikkaphone>never!
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07:53<krinn>is Pikkaphone a pikka with a phone?
07:54<Pikkaphone>si
07:54<LordAro>or is it a phone with pikka?
07:54<Pikkaphone>depends on your point of view
07:54<krinn>wonder if any pikkatoilet will appears
07:55<Pikkaphone>I don't have an irc capable toilet, so no
07:57<LordAro>probably do in japan
07:57<Pikkaphone>I don't have a toilet in Japan, neither
08:01<LordAro>for sahme
08:01<LordAro>shame*
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11:27<@planetmaker>people who are lazy and don't or can't read what one links them to and insist that one didn't answer their question are annoying...
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13:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26730 /trunk/src/lang (7 files) (2014-08-14 17:47:03 UTC)
13:47<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:47<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 6 changes by telanus
13:47<@DorpsGek>croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
13:47<@DorpsGek>dutch - 2 changes by habell
13:47<@DorpsGek>finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
13:47<@DorpsGek>german - 3 changes by planetmaker
13:47<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 2 changes by Stabilitronas
13:47<@DorpsGek>swedish - 1 changes by spacejens
13:49*Eddi|zuHause gets out the reading glasses
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13:50<@planetmaker>:D
13:51<andythenorth>Pikka: is it sinking?
13:52<@planetmaker>good night :)
13:54<andythenorth>bye planetmaker
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14:03<andythenorth>hmm
14:03<andythenorth>tug + barge looks a bit stupid when turning
14:04<andythenorth>remove it?
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14:04<andythenorth>turning states for ships?
14:04<andythenorth>articulated ships?
14:04<andythenorth>which is least work?
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14:08<@peter1138>put the centre in the right place at least
14:13<andythenorth>well that yes
14:13<andythenorth>but I’m not going to align the sprites if it’s going in the bin in next commit ;)
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>make the sprites smaller
14:16<andythenorth>or closer together
14:16<andythenorth>or different entirely :P
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>for the record: i have no idea what you are looking at.
14:20<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6403/tug.png
14:20<andythenorth>looks odd when it turns
14:20<andythenorth>implausible
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that gap is too large
14:21<andythenorth>I’ll try closing them up
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14:21<andythenorth>but fundamentally
14:22<andythenorth>two following vehicles don’t turn at the same time in TTD
14:22<andythenorth>so it just looks broken
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but you can't solve that
14:22<andythenorth>I think it has to go
14:22<andythenorth>I can bin the sprites
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14:25<Eddi|zuHause>"german federal court: companies may not advertise '14 day money-back guarantee', because it is required by law."
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14:36<__ln__>for all purchases?
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14:45<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: Banished is an evil game, steals all your time until you loose (again) :)
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14:49<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: for all online purchases
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>except software, food, ...
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14:55<andythenorth>lo Alberth
14:55<@Alberth>lo andy
14:55<@Alberth>more throwing away ships tonight?
14:57<andythenorth>think so
14:58<Supercheese>until articulated ships or some such, yeah the problem is unsolvable
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15:01<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: i'm somehow missng a statistic ho much a citizen actually eats per year
15:02<Rubidium>about 1 Mcal?
15:02<+michi_cc>Somewhere around 100 units (there is no exact value as far as I can see), it varies somewhat with total population, citizen age and probably some other factors.
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15:03<Eddi|zuHause>also, how can a 27 year old man and a 23 year old woman have a 15 year old son?
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>(probably a mistake in generating the starting citizens)
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15:05<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: is that in Russia/Chechnya?
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: ?
15:05-!-jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:06<Rubidium>at least according to wikipedia there was a girl that gave birth in April of 2000 at age of 8 years 7 months where the father is a 13 year old neighbour
15:06<Rubidium>hmm... it's not... she gave birth to a girl
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15:09<Rubidium>or are you talking about some game?
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>i'm talking about some game, yes :)
15:11<Phreeze>yo
15:11<Phreeze>what game ? :)
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>banished
15:11<Phreeze>ah
15:11<Phreeze>boring
15:11<Phreeze>i bought it day 1
15:11<Phreeze>was really cool and challenging
15:11<Phreeze>but after houuuurs, it get's boring as there is just no GOAL to get to
15:12<Phreeze>it's like a OTTD map where you connected everything and even decorated all the stations etc.
15:12<Phreeze>(IMHO )
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15:14<Eddi|zuHause>whatever. i've definitely not reached that stage yet :)
15:15<Phreeze>until then, it's really fun !
15:15<Phreeze>except for tornados, i played without disasters !
15:15<Phreeze>then comes a plague, at about 600habitants, and your done
15:15<Phreeze>SAVE OFTEN !!!!!!!!!!!
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15:18<Eddi|zuHause>how early should i invest in a school? seems like it'll slow down early growth quite a bit
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15:38<Phreeze>early enough !
15:38<Phreeze>workers are more effective
15:38*andythenorth finds the Island Trader from FISH 1 http://7seasvessels.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/HelgeLieberg0021.jpg
15:39<andythenorth>despite it was slightly made up
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15:44<@Alberth>bit icey :)
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15:56<andythenorth>snow line 0?
15:59<andythenorth>sometimes
16:00<andythenorth>I wonder
16:00<andythenorth>if the mantra of ‘eliminate support queries’ is bad for gameplay
16:00<andythenorth>it might work for Toyota and Jeff Bezos
16:01<andythenorth>but does it work for chess, or skipping ropes?
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16:04<Phreeze>wtf are you talking about ?
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16:07<andythenorth>so (generally) we try to avoid features that create failure demand
16:08<andythenorth>not always, but often
16:08<andythenorth>failure demand is boring
16:08<andythenorth>example: I need to change the recycling plant in FIRS
16:08<keoz_>"failure demand" ?
16:09<andythenorth>it randomises cargos on build, and that causes support questions
16:09<andythenorth>failure demand = work that has to be done due to bad design
16:09<andythenorth>or failure to solve an issue earlier
16:09<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failure_demand
16:10<keoz_>"Fixing", then :)
16:10<andythenorth>no
16:10<andythenorth>support, usually
16:10<andythenorth>questions = failure demand
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16:12<keoz_>Oh, it's actually a real concept.
16:12<keoz_>(reading your link)
16:13<keoz_>I think that if you want to avoid features which raises on questions, you're going to abandon any imaginable feature.
16:14<andythenorth>or remove them
16:14<keoz_>Bof.
16:15<Phreeze>ah lol andy ok
16:15<Phreeze>yeah recycling is cool, but people get "easily confused"
16:15<keoz_>I know there's some new mode against complex features.
16:15<keoz_>(and sets, and so on ...)
16:15<keoz_>Without complexity, there's no fun.
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16:33<Phreeze>watching tourist trophy isle of man
16:33<Phreeze>sickest sports ever ever ever
16:34<Phreeze>it's not even sports, it's failing at suicide, if you get to the finish
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16:49<andythenorth>bed
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16:57<Eddi|zuHause>um... these people divorced and moved in right next door
16:58<keoz>Still on your game ?
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17:06<frosch123>night
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20:12<Wolf01>'night all
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21:14<luaduck>if anyone's still awake, is there a way to get the openttd binary to immediately connect to a server on launch (command line maybe)?
21:16<Supercheese>command line "connect <host>" may work (https://wiki.openttd.org/Console_Commands)
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21:26<luaduck>is there an autoexec or similar then
21:26<luaduck>ah yes there is, autoexec.scr
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21:43<+glx>luaduck: -n [ip:port#player]
21:43<luaduck>huh, interesting
21:44<+glx>255 is spectator IIRC
21:44<luaduck>the wiki is kinda unclear about that switch does
21:46<+glx>and now I'm gone :)
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---Logclosed Fri Aug 15 00:00:41 2014