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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-08-15

---Logopened Fri Aug 15 00:00:41 2014
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03:47<@planetmaker>luaduck_zzz, you don't exactly need the wiki to know about openttd's command line options. Just openttd -h suffices. It's quite verbose about it
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05:06<Wolf01>hi hi
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05:21<Taede>mornin
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05:29<@planetmaker>hi hi
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05:57<V453000>hyhhy
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06:31<keoz_>hi
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08:49<Cursarion>hiya
08:49<Cursarion>anyone awake?
08:50<@planetmaker>*yawn*
08:50<Cursarion>been playing OpenTTD a lot lately and realized I have 1.3.2 and could probably update it
08:51<Cursarion>I've noticed couple of semi-bugs with it, I wonder if they're fixed in 1.4.1
08:51<@planetmaker>check the changelog and you might know. Update and play and you might know better :)
08:53<@planetmaker>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/export/26730/tags/1.4.1/changelog.txt
08:53<Cursarion>yeah, I've ctrl-f'd a couple of them
08:54<Cursarion>didn't find helicopters nor catchments...
08:54<@planetmaker>both are not exactly buggy, are they?
08:54<Cursarion>well
08:54<Cursarion>I apparently can't buy helicopters anymore in 2050-60ss
08:54<@planetmaker>with default vehicles, that's true
08:56<@planetmaker>that's a known quirk. But one which we cannot fix without introducing other similar quirks.
08:57<@planetmaker>Not sure whether it's in the known-bugs.txt mentioned. But it's somewhat a "won't fix"
08:59<Cursarion>ah
09:00<Cursarion>sounds odd
09:01<@planetmaker>simply: we cannot change default vehicles without possibly breaking add-ons (NewGRFs)
09:01<@planetmaker>and a NewGRF can simply help you out of that situation. In principle
09:03<Cursarion>how about something that'd allow purchasing obsolete vehicles?
09:03<Cursarion>or is the copters being obsolete what causes it?
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like the "vehicles never expire" switch?
09:04<@planetmaker>^ :)
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09:04<Cursarion>ah, neat
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09:05<Cursarion>thanks
09:05<Cursarion>solves that one
09:06<Cursarion>the second thing isn't a bug, but more like a suggestion... if you have a huge town with some stations already and are trying to put the catchments so that they cover everything, it can get kinda... err, hard
09:06<Cursarion>like here: http://r.xrs.fi/i/catchment.png
09:06<Cursarion>I'd suggest, that when building a new station, the catchment areas of existing stations would be shown
09:07<Cursarion>would be heavenly
09:07<Cursarion>even better if you next tell me it already exists
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>everyone who ever tried to implement that gave up screaming once he realized that catchment areas didn't actually work like they thought they were
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09:08<@planetmaker>catchment areas... which catchment area? For pickup? For delivery? With which settings?
09:09<Cursarion>one showing all would be an improvement, too
09:10<Cursarion>alternatively/additionally, clicking a station (looking at its details) would show its catchment area
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09:13<Cursarion>pretty much everything else in the game is very handy except the catchments
09:13<Cursarion>I've probably spent like half of the duration of my OpenTTD marathon this week looking at the catchments with the station builder tool
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't change the fact that it's still the "house that creates mad people" in openttd's world
09:16<Cursarion>so the catchment codes are a mess?
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09:16<Eddi|zuHause>not even the code, the whole concept
09:17<@planetmaker>the code is not overly complicated. But there's at least two concepts, one for pickup, one for delivery
09:17<@planetmaker>Which differ A LOT. That makes it difficult
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09:19<Cursarion>I don't think I understand what makes it complicated. Isn't it so that if an industry falls within a catchment area of a station, the station can accept and supply whatever the industry does?
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>no
09:20<@planetmaker>nope :)
09:20<Cursarion>eh, lol, am I meaning to speak of coverage?
09:21<Cursarion>yeah
09:21<Cursarion>sorry, wrong terms
09:21<@planetmaker>cargo is delivered to the industry which accepts it and which is closest to the station sign. Other industries will go empty
09:21<@planetmaker>for instance, just one quirk there :)
09:22<@planetmaker>unless, the industrie stops to accept... then the 2nd closes gets cargo, too... etc...
09:22<@planetmaker>but that only works with newgrfs
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>does that actually work? or does still the first industry get the cargo, even though it's not accepting anymore, and just drops it?
09:23<Cursarion>so, err, how about showing the coverage areas of the stations?
09:24<Cursarion>next to impossible too?
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>i'm out here... :)
09:25<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, if you have industries stopping to accept cargo via CB, then further delivered cargo is given to another industry
09:25<@planetmaker>I recall once a map with PBI. We could actually deliver so much wood that we managed to supply at best 6 or 7 saw mills with a single station :)
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09:25<@planetmaker>which were then *quite* a bit distant from the station
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09:26<@planetmaker>but some time ago. Not sure whether anything changed or not
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't there once a bug wher that even went beyond the catchment area?
09:26<@planetmaker>that might have been still present then. dunno
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i must have been asleep this morning when i plugged in the cell phone charger, but only in the wall and not in the cell phone itself
09:28<@planetmaker>lol
09:34<Cursarion>one more question, if I may... why can oil refineries only be built on the edges of the maps?
09:35<@planetmaker>just because. :)
09:35<Cursarion>makes oil wells in the middle of a big map rather pointless o.o
09:35<@planetmaker>makes oil wells in the centre of a big map big profit makers ;)
09:36<@planetmaker>in ye ol' times, the map edges were all water. Oil rigs were thus tendentially at the map edges. Refineries were thus near the coast
09:37<@planetmaker>That restriction is also now fixed as NewGRFs can make use of and rely on it. In principle
09:37<@planetmaker>Use a NewGRF like OpenGFX+Industries to remove that limit
09:38<@planetmaker>that limit nowadays makes as much sense as that the last heli expires in ~2060 or so. But they are relicts from old times and hard to remove.
09:38<@planetmaker>Especially as you can find NewGRFs to work around both limiations
09:39<@planetmaker>harmless quirks for a game which allows to load savegames made with game versions created more than a decade ago :)
09:39<@planetmaker>and I'm not exagerating here
09:40<Cursarion>yeah
09:40<@planetmaker>and still you got a point with those two points :)
09:40<Cursarion>it's actually quite impressive how well the game works
09:40<@planetmaker>anyway... /me --> shopping
09:42<Cursarion>have fun o/
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11:22<Rubidium>planetmaker: s/more than a decade ago/two decades ago/ (or at least 2014-1994 = ~20 years)
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11:25<Eddi|zuHause>that were the times... when my 386SX25 was too weak to handle anything above a dozen vehicles, yet i still played the game with 80 trains (ca. 480 vehicles) at like 0.5fps
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>i got like 10 years of in-game time that way :p
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>i've never even got a diesel engine before switching to a faster computer
11:27<Supercheese>A wild patch appeared https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=71021#p1128774
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11:27<Eddi|zuHause>now let's not add it to trunk just to make a point :p
11:27<Rubidium>can't find the release date of Transport Tycoon (the original) :(
11:28<Rubidium>seems to be before november since there's an article in some german thing, but beyond that nothing to pin down a more exact guestimate
11:28<Rubidium>unless.. file dates?
11:28<Rubidium>who has an original floppy?
11:28<Supercheese>I always said "when I was four years old or so"
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know either. there was a demo version on a collection called "highscreen fun pack vol.2"
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>i have a backup of my original, but i have no means to read that
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>my original cd somehow got lost along with the box. i only have the world editor box
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>hm, maybe if i dig out some old HDDs, they have a date...
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't feel like it...
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11:31<foxy1604>hi!!
11:31<foxy1604>first time here ^^
11:31<foxy1604>...and with a "little question.."
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>it must be so little i can't even see it.
11:33<foxy1604>Does anyone know how i can set a goal on a server (accessible with only ssh) that when it hits year 2045 a new map get generated
11:33<foxy1604>.. Sorry for the slow tiping.. ;)
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>there is a setting for server restart year
11:34<foxy1604>yeah?? :)
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>i never used it
11:34<foxy1604>i must have missed that.. >.<"
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>but the wiki should know
11:34<foxy1604>is it in the config file? :)
11:35<foxy1604>lets give it a look ;)
11:38<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: never mind... did it the "wrong" way. Seems to be early november based on install (although tycoon is from end of october)
11:38<foxy1604>Found it!!
11:38<foxy1604>thanks!!
11:38<foxy1604>any chance that there is a setting for a welcome message?? :3
11:39<foxy1604>I would die for that.. ^^"
11:42<foxy1604>nobody??
11:42<foxy1604>:'(
11:43<Supercheese>Have you checked the wiki?
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>you can try the "script" examples
11:43<foxy1604>for the last couple of hours ;)
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>"say" is the command to output a message
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>put that in "scripts/on_client_join.scr" or somesuch
11:44<foxy1604>okay!!
11:46<foxy1604>okay.. i just found the name.. its called "on_client.scr" x3
11:46<foxy1604>oops i mean "on_server_connect.scr"
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13:38<Wolf01>about to start a new OTTD game, suggestions?
13:39<Wolf01>grfs, game scripts...
13:39<@planetmaker>preferences? :D
13:39<Rubidium>disable build on slopes and autoslope
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a horrible game :p
13:40<Wolf01>not much
13:41<frosch123>oh, yes, i tried to play a ttdp game some years ago, and rage quit after 5 minutes because of missing autorail and very limited build on slopes :)
13:41<Wolf01>ahah
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13:46<@Alberth>Wolf01: if you want a goal with industries, and longer game, try silicon valley, nocargoal is good for short games (although longer goals are possible too)
13:47<@planetmaker>have you played a game already with NUTS, Wolf01? If you're up to something experimental, include also YETI. Otherwise FIRS, economy 'heart of darkness'
13:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26731 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2014-08-15 17:47:51 UTC)
13:48<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:48<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 6 changes by telanus
13:48<@DorpsGek>belarusian - 3 changes by KorneySan
13:48<@DorpsGek>catalan - 5 changes by juanjo
13:48<@DorpsGek>korean - 2 changes by telk5093
13:48<@DorpsGek>russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>i've never got feedback of CETS gameplay... if you can live with lack of graphics
13:48<Wolf01>I'll try it
13:48<@Alberth>basic economies are fun too
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13:49<@Alberth>supplies put a lot of stress on your network and number of trains you have to handle :)
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>what is "heart of darkness" about? sounds like a metal band
13:49<Wolf01>or a disney game
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>(shows that i haven't played a game in ages)
13:51<Wolf01>nice, I just selected 3 newgrfs and 2 gs -> 144MiB to download
13:51<@Alberth>weird map can also be fun 256x1024 or even longer :)
13:51<@Alberth>with 50% water :p
13:51<@planetmaker>:D
13:52<@planetmaker>indeed, such strange map side ratio can be great fun
13:52<Wolf01>what did you put on YETI?
13:52<Wolf01>ok, I think I'll play after dinner :P
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>you should disable variety distribution for these off-square map sizes
13:55<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Darkness
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13:56<@planetmaker>oi, I didn't even know the title is *that* whitty. But befitting
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>so.. africa, jungle, racism, ...
13:57<@planetmaker>the author must really be an educated man :)
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>what does that have to do with FIRS again? :p
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14:10<keoz>Eddi|zuHause: : it's one of FIRS economies
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>well, i get that...
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>the emphasis is on ABOUT
14:11<keoz>It has something colonialistic. Basically, you export through ports to get a lot of manufactured stuff
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14:39<Wolf01>let's start with in the worst mode possible: ships :D
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14:40<Wolf01>mmh, I scrambled some words, maybe __ln__ could fix it
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>don't mention ships
14:43<keoz>Yes, this is dangerous.
14:43<Wolf01>uhm, do exists a cool 32bpp temperate landscape? and a town one?
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>not sure how to get it
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>town is more problematic
14:44<Wolf01>you mean the infra one?
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>no
14:45<Wolf01>yeah, my ships are already profitable :D
14:45<Wolf01>and broken down :[
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14:55<qwebirc45713>hello
14:56<qwebirc45713>there's something really frustrating going on with my station
14:57<qwebirc45713>http://i.imgur.com/utNluYZ.png
14:57<qwebirc45713>why isn't the train going to the open station instead of straight?
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14:58<qwebirc45713>oh, I think I know why
14:58<Wolf01>because it does seem to miss some tracks, with maglev is difficult to tell
14:59<qwebirc45713>yeah, figured that
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15:06<Wolf01>why do I have 11 passengers to any station when I only have 2 stations?
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>that's when they appear before cargodist has made up its mind about routes you serve
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>"to any station" basically means the old behaviour of getting off at the next stop
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15:08<Eddi|zuHause>which is totally annoying if you're actually starting with a feeder service
15:08<Wolf01>but they want to go to the same station they are in, why then they won't go home instead?
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>that's not how cargo works
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15:16<Wolf01>ok, loan fully repaid
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>that's usually a mistake
15:19<Wolf01>should I keep some of it?
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>you generally should stay at max loan and invest everything in new routes
15:20<Wolf01>I'm good with my 2 ferries
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>until you're swimming in money and can't spend it fast enough anymore
15:22<Wolf01>meh, the ai is really stupid... it built a logic train, I should disable the it
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>there are 3 phases of AI's stupidity: 1) they are stupid, 2) the act stupid, 3) they take over the world
15:26<Wolf01>I found more difficult starting with a bus route...
15:26<@Alberth>buses make much less money
15:29<frosch123>[19:56] <planetmaker> oi, I didn't even know the title is *that* whitty. But befitting <- i googled it somewhen, when the andy's repetitive "Mistah Kurtz—he dead." got annoying :)
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember ever hearing this phrase
15:36<frosch123>hmm, ok, it is on the docs pags of firs
15:36<frosch123>maybe i read that one too often then :p
15:37<@Alberth>:)
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>i probably never read that page :p
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>or not in the last 3 years
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15:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26732 trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp (2014-08-15 19:41:57 UTC)
15:42<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6083]: do not reset the last selected airport or layout (unless it is really necessary)
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16:01<qwebirc45713>any mammoth trains in multiplayer?
16:03<frosch123>ask the server owner
16:03<frosch123>maximum train length is a gameplay setting defined by the server
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16:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26733 /trunk/src (lang/english.txt strings.cpp) (2014-08-15 20:14:48 UTC)
16:14<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6086]: inconsistency in using spaces between number and unit in some strings
16:14<@DorpsGek>Try to follow the SI recommendation to use a non-breaking space between a number and its units (and prefix)
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17:03<qwebirc45713>\
17:04<qwebirc45713>sorry
17:05<qwebirc45713>sometimes, I post a message exactly 1 hour after the last message
17:05<qwebirc45713>what if ships could crash into each other
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17:22<frosch123>night
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17:33<qwebirc45713>where is the non-faithful fork of openttd
17:35<@peter1138>non-faithful to what?
17:38<Prof_Frink>The One True Game. TTDPatch.
17:40<@peter1138>ah, ottd then
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17:51<Eddi|zuHause>do torches come along with the forks, or do they have to be purchased separately?
17:52<Taede>optional extra
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18:36<Wolf01>what's the point on not being able to transport machinery with ships?
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18:46<keoz>playing ECS ?
18:46<Wolf01>no, YETI
18:47<Wolf01>with FISH
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19:08<ST2>oh well, only started testing YETI 30 minutes ago... still laughing about "YETI dudes"
19:08<ST2>:D
19:09<Wolf01>which are rubber ducks
19:09<ST2>still discovering ^^
19:09<ST2>but loved the name :D
19:10<Wolf01>at least with NUTS
19:10<ST2>NUTS is how I get among "nut" files :D
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19:48<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 16 00:00:42 2014