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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-08-17

---Logopened Sun Aug 17 00:00:45 2014
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03:17<@planetmaker>moin
03:24<andythenorth>o/
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04:50<andythenorth>cut-and-shut
04:50<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6411/danube_ferry.png
04:50<andythenorth>makes for fast drawing of ships
04:51<andythenorth>adapted from https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/entry/src/graphics/danube_large_ferry_0.png
04:52<Rubidium>but... it's missing the wake ;)
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04:52<Wolf01>moin
04:53<LordAro>morning
04:55<andythenorth>Rubidium: but which end should I put the wake? o_O
04:55<Rubidium>the rear?
04:56<andythenorth>ok
04:57<Rubidium>though I guess wakes are kinda pointless since whenever you change direction the wake shows somewhere where the ship has never been
04:57<Rubidium>hmm... adaptation of ship smoke, if ever that gets implemented, "smoke" at the water level where the ship has been and we got wakes!
05:01<andythenorth>!!!
05:01<andythenorth>:)
05:01<andythenorth>might actually be good
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05:16<andythenorth>ho
05:16<andythenorth>symmetrical ships ftw
05:16<andythenorth>much faster to draw
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>but the wake makes it asymmetric!
05:20<@peter1138>Car ferries are a BAD FEATURE
05:21<@peter1138>Whatever happened to loading vehicles onto ships? hehe
05:21<andythenorth>you have a patch for it
05:21<@peter1138>Lies./
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05:44<@Alberth>o/
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06:06<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6413/danube_ferry.png
06:06<andythenorth>way faster than drawing from scratch
06:06<andythenorth>house isn’t centred in \ view though, eh?
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06:10<@peter1138>andythenorth, 7 bays in _ view, 8 bays in \ view
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>pixel counter alert!
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06:17<andythenorth>ha
06:17<andythenorth>that’s why the house isn’t centered
06:17<andythenorth>I should fix that
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06:19<andythenorth>thanks :)
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06:29<frosch123>andy has a new push-to-join irc client
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07:23<keoz>plop
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07:33<@Alberth>o/
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08:43<ATS63>say uhh...
08:43<ATS63>if you build a station between two industries, and both those industries accept the same cargo... only one of those industries ends up getting it?
08:44<ATS63>Is there a way around that?
08:44<ATS63>I'm playing ECS if that makes any difference
08:45<@Alberth>build 2 stations, one close to one industry
08:45<@Alberth>*each
08:46<@Alberth>ie the industry closest to the station sign gets the cargo
08:46<ATS63>Yeah, in this circumstance I'd have to demolish a town
08:47<@Alberth>an alternative is to be happy with delivery to one industry :)
08:48<ATS63>actually it is only two trains... I can fit a single line station in there
08:48<ATS63>just for those two trains
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08:51<@Alberth>if you use cargo dist, you can also setup a feeder for the second industry
08:52<@Alberth>depending on the amount of cargo, capacity may be a problem
08:53<Zuu>Also without cargodist, you could transfer cargo to a station and use lorries to deliver the last hop to each industry.
08:53<Zuu>This independent of if the transfer station is in range of any industry.
08:58<Jelmazmo>o/
08:59<ATS63>https://wiki.openttd.org/Passenger_and_cargo_distribution
08:59<ATS63>o rly
08:59<ATS63>I'll have to fiddle
09:01<Jelmazmo>Anybody know what happened with http://forums.ttdrussia.net ? I tried to download few mods available only there, but it is not working :/
09:02<ATS63>I did build that single line though, but it seems like a poor mans fix
09:27<@Alberth>Jelmazmo: you may want to ask at the forum, many more readers there
09:29<ATS63>heh this station isn't bad... better than old builds I use to do...
09:29<ATS63>10 platforms, 71 trains
09:29<ATS63>no blocks or congestion issues
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09:34<@Alberth>large station :)
09:35<ATS63>Could probably do it with less platforms too... its hard to know whats going on
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09:37<@Alberth>yeah, at some scale you don't see all details any more
09:37<Zuu>Every time I see "71 trains" without a "/ [time unit]" it makes me want to write a patch that adds a such measurement. :-)
09:37<Zuu>But, so far I haven't made time for that.
09:37<@Alberth>:D
09:38<ATS63>When the time unit would be months, it doesn't sound as good :(
09:38<ATS63>But that would be a neat idea
09:39<@Alberth>I'd rather have a window with average queue length for each station :)
09:39<V453000>Zuu: amout of cargo going through the station should be quite good measurement :P
09:39<V453000>which kind of already is there
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>there used to be a waypoint traffic counting patch (around r5000)
09:40<@Alberth>or a message "queue length grows rapidly at XXX"
09:40<ATS63>This station has a queue of almost 0 :D
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: how to measure a queue=
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>?
09:41<Zuu>SuperLib has code to calculate the queue length for all airport types in the game. :-)
09:41<ATS63>Braking leading up to the station, at any distance. Would be computationally difficult but
09:41<ATS63>Or based on red lights thrown
09:41<@Alberth>stopped trains on incoming tracks, mostly
09:42<@Alberth>until you hit an empty block or a moving train
09:42<Zuu>For train stations, the average occupancy of the plattforms may be an easier but also good measurement of how saturated the station is.
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: that won't detect insufficient entry track layout
09:44<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: right
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09:44<Eddi|zuHause>but queue length might not be a good measurement either. large stations may generally have longer queues without being congested
09:45<ATS63>http://i.imgur.com/fhcUCzu.png
09:46<ATS63>Thats my station
09:49<Rubidium>with that length of trains, and that type of trains 5 platforms should be enough to handle the traffic
09:49<Rubidium>assuming they can immediately fully load
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09:51<ATS63>Pretty much. I just had to ramp up the steel trains cause they weren't loading quick enough
09:52<V453000>using separate stations for loading and unloading is not a bad idea either btw
09:53<V453000>or waypoints
09:53<@Alberth>indeed, it prevents deadlocks :)
09:53<ATS63>Apparently I can ramp up the iron ore trains too, at every mine that feeds. So I should probably find another coal mine :/
09:54<ATS63>Waypoints wouldn't be a bad idea
09:54<@Alberth>you should build longer turns, these double 45 degrees corners kill speed
09:54<Rubidium>Alberth: unless the original acceleration is used
09:54<ATS63>nah realistic
09:55<ATS63>hehe, you should see every junction of mine... I probably could do better
09:55<@Alberth>that gives major havoc in pulling away, you need exit tracks then at the station
09:56<ATS63>http://i.imgur.com/f1hDala.png
09:58<V453000>._.
10:00<@Alberth>oef
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>did you mean "eof"? :p
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>the offsets between the wagons and engines seems wrong
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>like if they don't belong to the same vehicle set
10:03<ATS63>ecs & firs original vehicle set
10:04<@Alberth>the left incoming stream should drive around the right outging stream, to keep split before merge
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>particularly, the engines look like they are driving off the rails
10:06<ATS63>Can't say I've ever noticed
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>you can also see this in the vehicle list. there is a gap between engines and wagons, and they don't appear on the same height
10:07<@Alberth>if you put the tracks further apart from each other you get room to do the merge and split between the tracks
10:07<ATS63>Ahh true
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>sorry for spoiling your game, you will now forever see this :p
10:07<ATS63>Probably not :P
10:07<@Alberth>use a different train set :)
10:08<@Alberth>or report to the newgrf developers, and hope they fix it
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>i presume the engines come from opengfx, while the wagons are copies of the original?
10:08<ATS63>or ignore, the resolution is pretty poor anyway
10:08<ATS63>yep
10:09<ATS63>I'd say so
10:10<@Alberth>you can use opengfx+trains instead
10:13<ATS63>I'll apply that to this scenario I modified. Was considering I should publish it
10:13<ATS63>Modified the Australia scenario, cleaned up the coastline, positioned the cities and towns better, added some newgrfs like ecs
10:14<ATS63>Makes it easy when you know where everything is
10:14<@Alberth>assuming you know where things are in australie :p
10:15<@Alberth>*australia
10:15<ATS63>I took it as far as placing mines approx where they should be
10:15<@Alberth>having town newgrfs with geographic location of names would be neat
10:16<keoz>you mean, sort of coordinates ?
10:17<ATS63>500km +/- :P
10:17<@Alberth>yeah, so if you generate a map, towns get more or less at the right place relative to each other
10:18<keoz>yeah, that'd be nice
10:18<@Alberth>hmm, I guess you could write a gs or an ai for that
10:18<keoz>it isn't possible to load more than one gamescript at a time, isn't it ?
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>correct
10:19<keoz>that'd also be nice :)
10:19<@Alberth>keoz: In the general case, a name consists of several parts, so the tricky question is how to attach a location to a name created from a set of parts
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>but if you turn one into a library, you can call it from the other one
10:20<keoz>Right.
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>generally, there are too many things that would conflict with two game scripts working against each other
10:20<ATS63>Alberth: openstreetmaps.org ?
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>it will almost always need manual adjustments
10:20<@Alberth>ATS63: with random names, like you have in default openttd?
10:21<@Alberth>ie I want random names, and locations :)
10:26<keoz>You want a lot.
10:26<@Alberth>yep, that's why things in openttd take time
10:27<@Alberth>finding the right solution to a problem is a lot of thinking and trying
10:28<keoz>Aucun espace disponible sur le périphérique
10:28<keoz>oups, sorry
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10:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26745 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2014-08-17 14:52:32 UTC)
10:52<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Deduplicate calls to CreateEffectVehicleRel for vehicle visual effects.
10:52<andythenorth>o_O
10:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26746 /trunk/src (vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h) (2014-08-17 14:52:48 UTC)
10:52<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Separate enums for visual effect type and spawning model.
10:53<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26747 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-08-17 14:53:11 UTC)
10:53<@DorpsGek>-Feature: [NewGRF] Advanced visual effects with multiple effect sprites independent of spawning model.
10:53<frosch123>andythenorth: there you go :)
10:54<andythenorth>oh I see :D
10:54<frosch123>now comes the endless specs, renum, nml, .... how many tools to adjust?
10:54<andythenorth>now I have to do another release :P
10:54<andythenorth>I think I patched nml already
10:54<andythenorth>old nml though
10:55<andythenorth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3632/
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11:31<andythenorth>igh
11:31*andythenorth will have to get the new nml
11:32<frosch123>he, you only added the nml callback to ships :p
11:32<andythenorth>oopsie
11:32<andythenorth>well it worked for my test case :P
11:33<frosch123>hmm, actually,.. it does not work for aircraft
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11:37<frosch123>hmm, nml specs only have one table for all the vehicle callbacks
11:37<frosch123>i need more space :p
11:52<frosch123>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3633/ <- i wonder whether it needs other constants, or maybe inline functions
11:53<frosch123>currently nml uses a built-in "visual_effect" function to create values for the properties and callback 10
11:53<frosch123>those would be completely replaced when using the new callback
11:53<frosch123>not exactly sure, how to properly represent this in nml
11:54<frosch123>one could also deprecate the complete previous visual_effect thing
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11:55<@Alberth>oh dear L)
11:55<@Alberth>:)
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12:04<@Alberth>a callback is just an expression? you cannot simply add a type and a spawning type cb ?
12:05<frosch123>the property is in the "item" part, the callback in the "graphics" part
12:05<frosch123>the former is a constant expression, the latter is a switch
12:06<frosch123>usually nml sets the necessary properties when using a callback in the "graphics" section
12:06<@Alberth>seems like a good idea :)
12:06<frosch123>but here there is somewhat a conflict with the old "visual_effect" resp. "visual_effect_and_powered_wagons"
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12:09<@Alberth>unless compability requirements forbid it, I'd say just throw out the old way of doing visual effects
12:09<@Alberth>it would be nice if a user can continue using his old code though
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12:11<@Alberth>maybe use the spawning model of the effect type if the user didn't specify any?
12:11<@planetmaker>good evening
12:11<andythenorth>I thought some of that visual effect stuff was considered dead
12:11*andythenorth looks at spec
12:11<@Alberth>evenink planetmaker
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12:12*Alberth doesn't have any hope of giving clues as to how to change nml
12:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26748 /trunk (6 files in 3 dirs) (2014-08-17 16:13:23 UTC)
12:13<@DorpsGek>-Merge: documentation updates from 1.4 branch
12:14<andythenorth>oh dear
12:14<andythenorth>frosch123: sorry, I cheated when I made a test grf for cb160 http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3634/
12:14<andythenorth>:(
12:14<andythenorth>I forgot that
12:15<frosch123>maybe pm has an idea :)
12:19<@planetmaker>sorry, I didn't yet catch up
12:19<@planetmaker>Just got home 5 minutes ago :)
12:21<@planetmaker>what is the exact problem, from when should I read back to understand?
12:22<frosch123>17:37
12:24<andythenorth>extend visual_effect() ?
12:24<@planetmaker>ok... what is the conflict? the naming?
12:25<frosch123>no, when using "create_visual_effect", all current values for "visual_effect" are useless, except DISABLE_WAGON_POWER
12:25<andythenorth>frosch123: do I understand? We need to teach visual_effect() about using advanced effects
12:25<frosch123>they would all be replaced with the new VISUAL_EFFECT_MODEL_xxx
12:26<frosch123>the constants, and the build-in function
12:26<@planetmaker>ok... but then... where's the problem? :)
12:26<frosch123>the documentation :)
12:26<@planetmaker>ok. Can NML *always* use the new one instead of the old? It can, yes?
12:26<frosch123>doing simple and advanced visual effects are completely separate things
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12:27<@planetmaker>so we will also want to offer both, in the future?
12:27<frosch123>planetmaker: that would mean declaring the current built-in function and constants deprecated
12:27<frosch123>well, the old method is kind of easier to use :)
12:27<frosch123>no STORE_TEMP and such
12:29<andythenorth>can’t set visual_effect(VISUAL_EFFECT_ADVANCE, 0) ?
12:29<andythenorth>or such
12:30<frosch123>the second value would always have to be 0, so the function is pointless
12:31*andythenorth wonders what other cbs do that replace a property
12:31<frosch123>well, in this case there are two callbacks :)
12:32<@planetmaker>can we rewrite them such that NML can decide old for simple cases and advanced for the complicated ones
12:33<@planetmaker>similar to what andy mentions? Would mean a change of syntax. But could maybe unify it?
12:33<andythenorth>oh yeah cb10 exists already
12:33<andythenorth>ho
12:36<@planetmaker>but possibly it's easier to teach NML about an advanced_visual_effect. And have it spit out warnings if it's used in conjunction with the old one
12:36<andythenorth>could just put the burden on the author
12:36<@planetmaker>I'm sure there are people who need the old one of just whatever edge case
12:37<andythenorth>“Using advanced_visual_effect will cause any values for visual_effect to be ignored"
12:37<andythenorth>or such
12:39<@planetmaker>well, yes, I guess. And NML can parse the code to detect usage of both and issue a warning when it's used
12:39<@planetmaker>similar to the white pixels or so
12:39<@planetmaker>Probably the best solution
12:40<frosch123>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3635/ <- maybe a build-in function for creating the store_temp values
12:40<frosch123>but imo most confusing are the names of the constants
12:40<frosch123>maybe we have a differen name than VISUAL_EFFECT for the new stuff
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12:41<andythenorth>or VISUAL_EFFECT_SPAWN_MODEL
12:41<frosch123>so the constants for old and new are not mixed
12:41<@planetmaker>EFFECT_SPRITE
12:41<andythenorth>SPAWN_MODEL
12:41<frosch123>VISUAL_EFFECT_STEAM (old), vs VISUAL_EFFECT_MODEL_STEAM + VISUAL_EFFECT_TYPE_STEAM (new)
12:41<andythenorth>it’s called spawn model in the nfo spec
12:42<andythenorth>this constant only controls spawning yes?
12:42<frosch123>so, remove the "visual_effect" property and callback, and add a "spawn_model" thing instead?
12:42<frosch123>calling the whole visual_effect thing deprecated?
12:42<frosch123>effect_spawn_model and effect_spawn_model_and_powered_wagons :p
12:42<@planetmaker>ah, that you mean. Making one new function, spawn_model which integrates CB 0x10 and 0x160 into one interface?
12:43<@planetmaker>and call the existing deprecated? Sounds good
12:43<andythenorth>I wasn’t proposing deprecated, just constant name
12:43<andythenorth>but if it works to unify them...
12:43<@planetmaker>if we make it new as a common name, we have to deprecate the old :)
12:44<@planetmaker>or we call it just effect_creation
12:44<andythenorth>we could just use the new one and write out an action 2 when we produce the output :P
12:44<andythenorth>bit ugh
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13:04<frosch123>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3638/ <- no idea whether that works :)
13:06<frosch123>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3639/ <- usage
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13:16<@planetmaker>the graphics callback looks funky complicated for just a shifted puff of steam
13:19<andythenorth>wait until there are 8 funnels :)
13:19<frosch123>planetmaker: exactly why i do not want to remove the old method completely :)
13:19<@planetmaker>:)
13:20<frosch123>but i guess using completely separate constants and names makes it easier to doc
13:21<frosch123>andythenorth: right, i was wondering about that, the current implementation limits it to 3, though i noticed afterwards that the docs said 15
13:21<frosch123>did we change that somewhen?
13:21<andythenorth>I don’t recall
13:21<andythenorth>are there performance considerations?
13:22<Rubidium>how am I to code an A-225 with only 3 engines?
13:22<frosch123>Rubidium: aircraft do not support it anyway :p
13:22<frosch123>andythenorth: i just wanted to impose a limit
13:22<frosch123>to prevent people doing stupid things
13:22<frosch123>though usually they do anyway
13:23<@Alberth>:)
13:23<andythenorth>3 is fine for my cases
13:23<andythenorth>3 is the amount spawned on one run of the cb?
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13:24<frosch123>yes
13:24<andythenorth>3 is plenty
13:24<frosch123>basically 3 positions
13:24<andythenorth>how often does it run?
13:25<frosch123>same as for traditional effects
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13:30<andythenorth>so how many pax shall I give this thing?
13:30<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/entry/src/graphics/danube_large_ferry_0.png
13:30<andythenorth>it’s the only big pax ship in this roster
13:30<andythenorth>it’s set to 1,000 currently, could go higher
13:30<andythenorth>it’s not fast
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13:31<@Alberth>for a ferry, 1000 seems fine
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13:32<@Alberth>it's about 2 trains :)
13:34<Rubidium>3000 seems the maximum for ferries IRL
13:35<andythenorth>this ship has 4 funnels
13:35<andythenorth>hmm
13:35<Rubidium>and about 6000 for cruise ships
13:35<@Alberth>one engine is under repair :)
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13:41<andythenorth>pleased with that ship
13:41<andythenorth>less than 1 hour to make
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26749 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt hungarian.txt) (2014-08-17 17:45:37 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 47 changes by telanus
13:45<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 50 changes by Brumi
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14:01<Yho>Hi
14:03<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=71089 <-- hm... it's of course wrong to not write in English... and if I interpret it right he uses OpenTTD 0.6.3 :D
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14:06<Yho>I'm trying to get into openttd patches dev with a simple thing but I can't find the file where ShowQueryString is defined. Does someone know ? Or maybe if you have a tip to find the correct file when searching for fuctions
14:06<frosch123>planetmaker: yeah, that config option was changed between 0.6 and 1.0
14:06<frosch123>Yho: it's called "grep"
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14:08<Yho>frosch123: I use "find . | xargs grep "ShowQueryString" -sl". But I can't find the file where the body of the function is. Am I doning something wrong ?
14:09<@planetmaker>grep -Ri "ShowQueryString" src/*
14:09<Xaroth|Work>^
14:09<frosch123>or even "void ShowQueryString"
14:10<@Alberth>src/misc_gui.cpp
14:10<@Alberth>1052:void ShowQueryString(StringID str, StringID caption, uint maxsize, Window *parent, CharSetFilter afilter, QueryStringFlags flags)
14:10<@Alberth>ack ShowQueryString :)
14:13<Yho>Thanks everyone. And thanks Alberth, I had trouble finding it even with all the different commands
14:14<@planetmaker>Yho, it's always the line where it's preceeded by the type of the return value. All other lines are where it's called
14:15<@Alberth>planetmaker: and no ; at the end of the line, else it's a declaration :)
14:15<@Alberth>Yho: you get better at it as you do it more often
14:15<Yho>Alberth: planetmaker: I was looking for line without ; but looking for return type s easier
14:15<@planetmaker>:)
14:16<@Alberth>not indented by a tab is also easy to spot
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14:18<Yho>Alberth: Oh yes I'll remember that.
14:28<keoz>mmh ... grep -R
14:29<keoz>why the hell I am always using find /src -type f -exec grep ?
14:29<@planetmaker>:)
14:29<frosch123>maybe you use ancient unix, and are not used to gnu extensions?
14:29<keoz>I remember that at some point I had problems using recursive grep
14:30<frosch123>grep -I --exclude-dir=".svn" --exclude-dir=".hg" --exclude-dir="lang" --exclude="*~" "$@" <- that's what my editor uses
14:30<keoz>not that ancient, it's an uptodate archlinux :p
14:30<frosch123>in addition to the -R which the editor adds itself via some checkbox
14:32<Zuu>I tend to use grep -r. But maybe -R is better :-)
14:32<frosch123>hardly a difference
14:32<andythenorth>so it seems that nobody floats rafts of logs down the Rhine, Elbe or Danube
14:32<frosch123>i guess i also use -r
14:33<keoz>andythenorth: there arent't so much forests to cut in Europe anymore, I think :p
14:34<keoz>-R follow symlinks
14:34<frosch123>i thought europe is one of the most suitable continents for forestry
14:34<frosch123>fast growing trees, easy regrowing
14:35<keoz>It's suitable for it, but large parts of ancients forests doesn't exist anymore. Cutted for agriculture.
14:36<Rubidium>the main reason at least the Rhine isn't suitable is the huge amount of ships going there
14:37<@planetmaker>yeah, all those rivers are official waterways with heavy ship traffic. No place for unstearable rafts
14:39<Rubidium>also most forestry in (central) Europe is relatively small scale
14:40<@planetmaker>that, too.
14:41<Rubidium>even then, most of it won't be near those rivers and between the forest and the river there's usually a town so throwing logs of a mountain will not be appreciated
14:41<Rubidium>nor will dumping them in the river with a helicopter
14:42<@planetmaker>the road network is also too dense. No point there. Just put it onto trucks and haul it to the sawmill directly
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14:49<andythenorth>no log rafts for you lot then :)
14:49<andythenorth>they can go in the NA roster
14:49<andythenorth>or Scandi
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14:53<@planetmaker>well... Scandinavia surely has it
14:53<@planetmaker>so... it could well be in the general set
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14:56<keoz>btw, european rivers aren't limited to Elbe, Rhine and Danube :)
14:56<keoz>I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of river transportation still exists in parts like Russia
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15:24<frosch123>night
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15:36<andythenorth>hmm
15:36<andythenorth>if I make very large barges
15:36<andythenorth>(basically size of current largest ships)
15:37<andythenorth>then they’ll look quite bad if used on rivers and canals
15:45<andythenorth>already the largest barge overlaps land a lot
15:45<andythenorth>and I could make it 25% longer :P
15:50<Supercheese>option for double- or triple-wide rivers on mapgen?
15:51<Supercheese>players can always doublewide their canals
15:57<@peter1138>Stick to TTD sizes
16:02<andythenorth>could just cheat
16:02<andythenorth>capacity != scale
16:03<andythenorth>someone should do articulated ships
16:06<@Alberth>with articulated smoke?
16:06<andythenorth>I could draw the sprites using the effect cb?
16:06<andythenorth>o_O
16:07<@planetmaker>you could. so much to do now :D
16:07<andythenorth>fake articulated barges
16:07<@Alberth>gn
16:07<andythenorth>:)
16:07<@planetmaker>g'night Alberth
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16:08<Supercheese>I got to exercise my Spanish translation skills
16:09<Supercheese>It seems that accent marks go out the window for Internet Spanish
16:10<Supercheese>also, new effects callback?
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16:38<Wolf01>'night
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17:10<@planetmaker>g'night
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19:00<webchattest>Does this thing work?
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19:07<MTsPony>does anyone know what the deal with is newgrf's that appear on bananas website yet they are unfindable in game?
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19:08<amsu>hello there!
19:09<amsu>anybody here?
19:09<FLHerne>amsu: Yes
19:09<FLHerne>I think everyone else is asleep though :P
19:10<amsu>jajaj
19:10<amsu>thank you for de fast respond
19:10<amsu>im from argentina
19:11<amsu>y study for ten year ingles
19:11<amsu>but,.. y no practice writing,.. only reading jajaj
19:11<amsu>ok,..
19:12<MTsPony>lol
19:12<MTsPony>jaja.
19:13<amsu>:P
19:13<MTsPony>:b
19:13<FLHerne>'y' -> 'I', 'ingles' -> 'english', but I can understand you :-)
19:13<amsu>JAJAJJAJA piece of animal!!
19:14<+glx>MTsPony: maybe wrong version of openttd
19:14<MTsPony>Nein. i checked with both my custom and 1.4.1
19:14<MTsPony>would be weird if it was version related?
19:14<+glx>some newgrf are for nightlies only IIRC
19:14<MTsPony>does 26694 correspond to a nightly?
19:14<amsu>....WTF????
19:15<amsu>:(
19:15<MTsPony>well, cant find it with that version either. lol. I assume thats a nightly.
19:15<FLHerne>amsu: Did you have more questions?
19:15<MTsPony>Can you override this behavior? I suppose manually downloading it and place it on server, other people can download it from bananas even if they cant see it in their list either right?
19:16<MTsPony>same with different version
19:16<MTsPony>of newgrfs
19:16<MTsPony>meh ill try it, thx
19:16<Supercheese>Yeah, uploaders can specify version restrictions
19:16<+glx>newgrf can check the game version and disable themself IIRC
19:16<Supercheese>"Cannot be downloaded with X version(s) of OTTD"
19:16<amsu>heyyy superchees is herre too! =)
19:16<Supercheese>min/max version fields IIRC
19:16<Supercheese>Hola
19:17<MTsPony>mhhh
19:17<MTsPony>ok makes sense
19:17<amsu>im re installin ttd the n° 20
19:18<amsu>i delete all of ttd
19:20<amsu>i download the openttd-1.4.2-windows-win32.exe
19:20<MTsPony>why not 64
19:21<amsu>:(
19:21<amsu>no y have a....
19:21<+glx>try to use "I" ;)
19:21<amsu>http://prntscr.com/4duini
19:21<amsu>F****k sorry
19:22<+glx>ha yes 32bit only
19:22<Supercheese>Seem to have mastered expletives :P
19:22<+glx>xp 64 is very rare
19:22<MTsPony>ow xp. lol
19:22<MTsPony>yeah xp 64-bit, such a pain
19:22<amsu>ok,.. here: only i installed this http://prntscr.com/4duiyp
19:23<+glx>yes
19:23<Supercheese>looks good, do you still have problems?
19:23<+glx>basic install
19:23<+glx>should be playable immediately
19:24<amsu>then y have to do this : http://www.tt-forums.net/search.php?keywords=ayuda&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Buscar
19:24<+glx>no
19:24<Supercheese>those should have already been installed
19:24<FLHerne>Supercheese: He asked about sound and music effects
19:25<FLHerne>Supercheese: Only OGFX is installed by default IIRC
19:25<Supercheese>Perhaps he needs to select them in the options panel
19:25<+glx>sound and music are installed by installer
19:25<Supercheese>Yes, see http://prntscr.com/4duiyp
19:25<amsu>installing,..
19:25<amsu>ya les aviso,..
19:25<+glx>and I think they are enabled by default
19:25<amsu>sorry em....
19:25<amsu>wait.. jajaj
19:26<FLHerne>Supercheese: Ooh, it looks like that now? I've been on Linux since about 1.0.x
19:26<Supercheese>He just posted that :P
19:27<FLHerne>Gah, I glanced at that and though it was a repost of his previous link :-/
19:27<amsu>heeey exelent
19:27<amsu>=)
19:27<Supercheese>Working, I take it?
19:27<amsu>only y havent found the escenarios
19:27<FLHerne>amsu: Never mind my dodgy screenshot then :P
19:27<Supercheese>Yes, the scenarios are not included by default
19:28<+glx>in online content
19:28<amsu>how y put its?
19:28<Supercheese>Matter of fact, I do not know where they can be found -- the original scenarios anyway
19:28<amsu>ok,.. going
19:28<amsu>or... GO GO GO!
19:28<amsu>:p
19:28<Supercheese>There are lots of other scenarios in online content
19:28<+glx>not the original ones though but a lot indeed
19:29<+glx>a random game is good enough for me :)
19:29<amsu>WHats IA ?
19:29<Supercheese>Artificial Intelligence / Computer players
19:30<amsu>mmmm ok thanks
19:30<+glx>some are very smart
19:30<Supercheese>some are specialized for only a single purpose
19:31<amsu>what recommend me reload everything?
19:31<amsu>sorry for my english!
19:31<Supercheese>For most things, only choose the ones you want
19:31<amsu>reload no... TO load
19:31<Supercheese>It is not recommended to download everything
19:32<+glx>openttd can be very slow to launch if you have everything :)
19:32<amsu>nonono everything y don want to
19:32<amsu>its gooing too slow no?
19:32<amsu>=)
19:32<+glx>it scans all files at start
19:33<amsu>waau
19:33<Supercheese>Yeah, it can get slow, sadly
19:33<amsu>http://prntscr.com/4dumqr
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19:33<amsu>what about this..? scripts?
19:33<amsu>what they mean?
19:33<+glx>forget scripts for now :)
19:34<Supercheese>Game scripts are, hmm, things like additional goals/challenges for games
19:34<Supercheese>they are entirely optional
19:34<amsu>ahh ok spchee
19:34<amsu>ohh sorrry
19:35<amsu> clicking each onee, y have a description.. :P
19:36<keoz>don't bother with them if you're still not used to the game
19:37<Supercheese>Even I haven't used one yet...
19:37<keoz>You should try mine :)
19:37<amsu>jaj
19:38<amsu>ifi stsrted a city to grow up
19:38<amsu>how y made to have trucks and cargo in early years?
19:39<keoz>what do you call, "early years" ?
19:39<+glx>without newgrf don't start before 1920
19:39<amsu>ajjaj 1910
19:39<Supercheese>You will want to download a NewGRF that has early vehicles
19:39<amsu>1900
19:39<amsu>1920
19:39<Supercheese>I recommend eGRVTS
19:39<amsu>SIR searching SIR !!
19:40<amsu>i am downloading 38M the escenaios :P
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19:45<amsu>supercheeese,. and what about having eGRVTS and eGRVTS2 ?
19:46<amsu>or one o r the other?
19:46<Supercheese>Choose one, naturally version 2 has improvements
19:46<keoz>no interest
19:46<Supercheese>but also it has fewer vehicles IIRC
19:46<keoz>the 2 is just an updated version
19:46<keoz>does it Supercheese ? didn't know
19:46<Supercheese>I could be mistaken
19:47<keoz>I think I never used version 1
19:47<Supercheese>perhaps it was only the development versions that lacked vehicles
19:47<Supercheese>I'll have to test
19:47<amsu>how i uninstall one ?
19:48<Supercheese>Once you download Newgrfs, they still must be activated before they affect games
19:48<amsu>i dont have the option
19:48<keoz>you remove it from the actives NewGRFs
19:48<amsu>in the same place y download it ?
19:49<keoz>in the NewGRF window, you have two black boxes
19:49<Supercheese>The NewGRF Settings window
19:49<keoz>one contains the downloaded stuff
19:49<keoz>the other one contains only the ones which you want to use
19:50<Supercheese>or Configuration NewGRF, I suspect yours would say
19:50<Supercheese>Configuracion*
19:51<amsu>jajjaajaja
19:51<amsu>http://prntscr.com/4dusrx
19:51<amsu>i dont found the escenaries to play
19:51<Supercheese>You have a lot of drives
19:51<amsu>the ones i downloaded
19:51<Supercheese>Goodness
19:51<amsu>:(
19:52<Supercheese>That explorer should have directed you to your Documents folder rather than root/Games, hmm
19:52<Supercheese>although XP may not
19:53<Supercheese>anyway, try navigating to OpenTTD\Scenarios
19:53<Supercheese>or, well, scenario -- no s
19:59<amsu>ok
20:00<keoz>g'night
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20:00<amsu>look at that: http://prntscr.com/4duvtj
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20:53<amsu><Supercheese> or, well, scenario -- no s
20:53<amsu>ya esta!
20:54<amsu>ready y have to get offf an enter again :P
20:54<amsu>=)
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21:43<Eddi|zuHause><MTsPony> does anyone know what the deal with is newgrf's that appear on bananas website yet they are unfindable in game? <-- it's possible to set the version requirement in such a way that no version of openttd can download the newgrf, then it can only be fetched by people who want to load a savegame/scenario or join a server that already uses this grf
21:43<Eddi|zuHause>the "find missing grfs" button on savegames etc. ignores this version requirement
21:44<Eddi|zuHause>but the general "check online content" buttons will adhere to it
21:45<Eddi|zuHause>whereas the website does not know which openttd version you have, so it offers the download anyway
21:47<Eddi|zuHause>also there are "paranoid" newgrf developers out there that think the game devs want to break their grfs at any possible moment, and thus only allow downloading with game versions they actually tested, and disallow with future versions
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23:32<MTsPony>figurer as much, thx eddi
23:32<MTsPony>figured
---Logclosed Mon Aug 18 00:00:47 2014