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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-08-19

---Logopened Tue Aug 19 00:00:47 2014
---Daychanged Tue Aug 19 2014
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02:09<Rubidium>Jell-E: you need pkg-config installed for openttd to find lzma
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03:36<Jell-E>Rubidium, how can I test if pkg-config works on lzma? I've got it installed
03:37<TinoDidriksen>pkg-config --cflags lzma
03:37<TinoDidriksen>Or --libs
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03:48<Jell-E>thanks, pkg-config says it's not found
03:48<Jell-E>Do I have to manually add a lzma.pc file or something?
03:48<TinoDidriksen>No, but you need the lzma -dev package.
03:51<Jell-E>It can't find that either, while yum says it's installed
03:51<Jell-E>I've got little experience with centos 6 you see
03:52<TinoDidriksen>Ew, 6...
03:52<__ln__>6 > 5
03:52<TinoDidriksen>Why do people persist in installing that ancient thing?
03:52<__ln__>it's not an ancient thing.
03:53<TinoDidriksen>Have you seen the package versions of latest CentOS 6.5? Ancient stuff.
03:53<__ln__>i'm using CentOS 6.5 right now, so yes, but so what?
03:53<Jell-E>It was pre-installed on my dedicated server
03:53<@planetmaker>TinoDidriksen, not bleeding edge. But rock-solid stable
03:54<@planetmaker>those few things you need really newer, can be installed from special backport rpms
03:54<Jell-E>I'll just put debian or ubuntu on it, I like them way better
03:54<__ln__>and support for new devices is backported to the kernel by RH.
03:54<__ln__>Jell-E: don't put ubuntu on it.
03:54<TinoDidriksen>Mmm, Ubuntu Server...good stuff.
03:55<Jell-E>Ubuntu or Debian?
03:55<TinoDidriksen>I'd go for latest Ubuntu if you can.
03:55<@planetmaker>Debian is also rock-solid. Never got a more stable system than Debian so far
03:55<__ln__>Jell-E: if the choice is between those two, definitely Debian.
03:55<TinoDidriksen>14.04 is an LTS.
03:55<@planetmaker>For desktop ubuntu, for server debian
03:55<__ln__>LTS doesn't mean anything.
03:56<Jell-E>Yeah it's a server, and I like debian so I'll just install that
03:56<@planetmaker>I still mean to try out 14.04 on one of my VMs, but not recommending that yet
03:56<Jell-E>The differences aren't that big
03:56<__ln__>if you encounter a serious bug in LTS, it *won't* *be* *fixed* until the next ubuntu release unless it is critical.
03:56<TinoDidriksen>I vastly prefer Ubuntu for servers. Newer packages, but still stable.
03:57<@planetmaker>centos and debian mature longer than ubuntu's releases
03:57<@planetmaker>if you look at their stabilization windows
03:58<__ln__>TinoDidriksen: what's a real-life usecase where "old" packages are a bad thing per se?
03:58<TinoDidriksen>Perl and Unicode.
03:58<@planetmaker>yeah. But that's not a reason to get less stable foundations.
03:58<TinoDidriksen>C++11, -14
03:58<Jell-E>You can always build from source
03:59<TinoDidriksen>It's the same foundations as Debian for 90% of the packages, and I prefer not building from source.
03:59<__ln__>there's GCC 4.7 available for C6 as a semi-official package.
04:00<Jell-E>TinoDidriksen, why not?
04:00<TinoDidriksen>'cause upgrading from source is a pain when you need to maintain 14 servers.
04:01<__ln__>but well, if you are happy with Ubuntu, then who am i to judge you... just please don't recommend it to anyone else to replace Debian or CentOS.
04:01<Jell-E>Of course, I don't have much experience with my single server
04:02<__ln__>does Ubuntu support joysticks already?
04:02<@planetmaker>as input device for headless servers? :D
04:03<TinoDidriksen>Terminal navigation with sticks, hmm...might work in MC.
04:06<__ln__>we used to use ubuntu at work, and at least certain brand joysticks kept disappearing regularly, unless one ran "lsusb -v" in crontab.
04:06<__ln__>after switching to centos, that never happened again.
04:07<__ln__>and yes, we upgraded ubuntu to a newer release, and it didn't help. and it also was a known, reported bug since a long time, but ubuntu didn't have the skill or motivation to fix it.
04:08<@planetmaker>you use joysticks at work, __ln__ ? What do you do?
04:09<__ln__>video surveillance; joysticks are for controlling pan-tilt-zoom cameras. (and those aren't the average 30€ game joysticks, but a bit more professional-looking and more expensive usually)
04:10<ATS63>err, so if I've built out all my trains with 3 single headed engines... if I autoreplace with dual-headed engines the length will be longer than my platforms... is there a way to easily fix this?
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04:11<@planetmaker>ATS63, yes. set the checkbox to maintain train length in the autoreplace window
04:11<ATS63>*face palm*
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04:12<ATS63>it calls that "wagon removal"... does that work in reverse, ie. dual headed to single headed?
04:14<V453000>is there written wagon adding? :D
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04:23<ATS63>hmm, I might play with mammoth trains later
04:25<@planetmaker>ATS63, it can only remove wagons. How would it know what to add? (it even doesn't work nicely with removal when you have several different wagons, you can't specify which to remove)
04:26<ATS63>People mix wagons? Seems silly
04:34<Eddi|zuHause>don't question the use of a concept, if it's specified, it must be implemented
04:35<Eddi|zuHause>just because you don't see a use for it, doesn't mean there is no use for it
04:37<@peter1138>Like V453000 and path-signals :p
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04:48<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, i think my grep-fu leves me. i have a file, and i want to drop all lines that contain "abc", but not if they aldo contain "xyz"
04:49<@planetmaker>grep -v 'xyz' | grep 'abc'
04:50<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that's backwards, because the whole thing now has to be "-v"-ed
04:57<Eddi|zuHause>i never understood why there is no "invert" part of regexp...
04:57<Eddi|zuHause>you can invert the whole thing, or you can invert individual letters, but not substrings
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05:08<TinoDidriksen>You can assert a non-match.
05:10<Eddi|zuHause>TinoDidriksen: but only to the whole regexp, not to a part of it
05:10<TinoDidriksen>Also to part of it, in some engines.
05:11<Eddi|zuHause>i've never seen any such engine
05:12<TinoDidriksen>A negative lookahead.
05:14<Eddi|zuHause>that is still not an answer
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05:56<^Spike^>Eddi|zuHause: if you got a regexp try egrep -v? (sorry if it's late) cause egrep should properly like regexp :)
05:57<TinoDidriksen>-v is the whole regex; he wants to invert part of a regex.
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>i know about grep -E, that's not the issue.
05:59<^Spike^>trying to think fo some method... but it all ends up with being some elaborate bash script in my head... :)
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>my traditional method of inverting a string goes something like ([^x]|x[^y]|xy[^z]) but that gets extremely tedious with longer things, and alternatives, repetitions etc.
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13:37<LordAro>hmm, no one ever made a 1.4.2 forum post
13:44<@Alberth> oh?
13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26751 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2014-08-19 17:46:25 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>croatian - 47 changes by VoyagerOne
13:46<@DorpsGek>english_AU - 50 changes by mrtux
13:46<@DorpsGek>finnish - 25 changes by jpx_
13:46<@DorpsGek>korean - 1 changes by telk5093
13:46<@DorpsGek>polish - 50 changes by wojteks86
13:49<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: awk '$0 !~ /abc/ || $0 ~ /xyz/'
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14:00<frosch123>hmm, it's tuesday
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14:01<frosch123>what happened to monday?
14:02<SpComb>done good and gone
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14:09<LordAro>Alberth, ...i was looking in the wrong subforum
14:09<@Alberth>yeah, then finding it is a tad difficult :)
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14:25<Wolf01>hi hi
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15:04<Supercheese>So what's this "Advanced effect creation" callback I see on the specs wiki?
15:05<Supercheese>I guess it would allow steamships to spawn multiple smoke plumes?
15:13<@planetmaker>among others, yes
15:19<@Alberth>no smoke in squid? :(
15:20<andythenorth>waiting for the nml fix
15:20<andythenorth>fix / upgrade
15:21<@planetmaker>oh, frosch had a patch... hm, does it need feedback?
15:21<andythenorth>it has that problem with constants
15:21<andythenorth>unless it got solved
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15:21*andythenorth was working last few days
15:25<frosch123> <- those are the latest versions
15:26<frosch123>i have no idea whether that builtin_create_effect thingie works
15:26<frosch123>maybe someone wants to port the fish test branch to the new syntax
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15:28<andythenorth>I’ll try and do it tonight
15:29*andythenorth is maybe ill, not sure ;P
15:29<andythenorth>forgotten what ill is like
15:29<andythenorth>no time for ill with children
15:30<@planetmaker>some hot tea? Darjeeling? Or are you a coffee guy (totally anti-clichée then)
15:30<frosch123>no need to rush, i certainly won't get back to it till friday or sunday
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15:37*andythenorth is back on coffee
15:37<andythenorth>10 years of tea
15:37<andythenorth>no longer
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15:47<Supercheese>Why is "both" never considered an option?
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15:47<Supercheese>or at least I never hear it
15:47<FLHerne>Because a mixture of tea and coffee tastes awful
15:48<FLHerne>You get the annoying bitterness of coffee, and then the flavours clash badly
15:51<Prof_Frink>Someone should make supercaffeinated tea.
15:51<Prof_Frink>(And when I say someone, I mean Taylors of Harrogate.)
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16:31<berndj-blackout>can somebody explain transfer to me? or is what i want to do just not really possible? i had a (train) station that was too far from a town's bank, so i wanted to use trucks to shuttle valuables between the bank and the station
16:32<berndj-blackout>"transfer and leave empty" on the train failed to load that town's valuables, and "transfer and take cargo" just loaded up the valuable that had just been unloaded
16:36<@Alberth>what version do you use?
16:37<andythenorth>hmm Gradierwerk
16:37*andythenorth learns something
16:37<@Alberth>sounds german
16:42<@Alberth>hmm, nobody bothered to update the feeder service pages with cargo dist
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16:58<berndj-blackout>i was using jessie's 1.4.1
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17:02<andythenorth>livestock by hydrofoil o_O
17:02<andythenorth>how rare
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19:02<Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> hmm Gradierwerk <-- we have a few of those around here
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19:04<Eddi|zuHause>besides making salt, they have the effect of creating healthy air
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 20 00:00:53 2014