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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-08-30

---Logopened Sat Aug 30 00:00:32 2014
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01:02<andythenorth>o/
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01:26<Sylf>openttd.org seems to be down to me
01:36<andythenorth>http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com
01:40<Sylf>I used isitup.org to check :P basically the same thing
01:40<Sylf>But it must have been some kind of short hiccup
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02:16*andythenorth tries to guard against overflowing ship speed
02:16<andythenorth>not as easy as I thought :P
02:19<andythenorth>eddi will know
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03:02<LSky`>morning
03:04<andythenorth>LSky`: I might have made your life harder for RedFISH
03:04<andythenorth>:P
03:06<LSky`>I saw
03:06<LSky`>I going to dive into the rosters soon
03:06<LSky`>what i have yet to figure out is where you assign sound/animations to the different ship classes
03:07<LSky`>itd be a bit weird if I add some sailing ships, onyl to find out they have steam animations
03:17<andythenorth>sound is just sound effect
03:17<andythenorth>it’s a property
03:17*andythenorth looks
03:18<andythenorth>oh
03:18<andythenorth>it’s a ‘special’ piece of python :)
03:18<andythenorth>in ship_properties.pynml
03:18<andythenorth>sound_effect: ${('SOUND_SHIP_HORN','SOUND_FERRY_HORN')[ship.default_cargo=='PASS']};
03:18<andythenorth>it’s a hack
03:18<andythenorth>and will have odd effects with sailing ships
03:19<andythenorth>it could be done properly in future, I didn’t pay much attention to sounds yet
03:19<andythenorth>much / any /s
03:24<andythenorth>animation stuff is in the ‘smoke2’ branch
03:44-!-abculatter_2 [~abculatte@232.sub-166-167-95.myvzw.com] has joined #openttd
03:45<abculatter_2>Is there a way to set a station to no longer accept/demand a specific cargo?
03:49-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
03:52<andythenorth>no
03:53<abculatter_2>wtb that feature
04:01-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
04:04<Supercheese>As do I...
04:04<Supercheese>think there was A Patch for That™
04:05<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=59590
04:05<andythenorth>what’s it needed for?
04:05<andythenorth>it doesn’t help you win a cargo goal
04:05*andythenorth has become singular
04:06<Supercheese>It's basically an anti-derp feature
04:06*andythenorth doesn’t like it
04:06<Supercheese>Sometimes you accidentally have a train load at a drop-off station
04:06<andythenorth>your playful sandbox tinkering games are all now banned
04:06<Supercheese>causing cargo to pile up there
04:06<andythenorth>you must only play objective-orientated, target driven games with a single outcome
04:06<andythenorth>no more playtime
04:07<Supercheese>But the game is in C++, isn't that already object-oriented...? :P
04:07<andythenorth>you must do useful work
04:07<andythenorth>sandbox games have no purpose
04:08<andythenorth>outcomes must be achieved
04:08<andythenorth>targets met
04:08<andythenorth>winning
04:08<andythenorth>efficiency to the fore!
04:08<andythenorth>beat the clock!
04:09*andythenorth considers deleting CHIPS
04:09<andythenorth>station grfs have no purpose
04:11<andythenorth>bah
04:11<andythenorth>I am being a one-person channel again
04:11<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
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04:41<Wolf01>hello
04:41<LSky`>hi
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04:54<@Alberth>o/
04:56<andythenorth>lo Alberth
05:00<Wolf01>o/
05:02<andythenorth>costs costs costs
05:04<andythenorth>also
05:04<andythenorth>need a bear
05:04<andythenorth>ship speed must be =< 79 mph
05:05<andythenorth>and actual speed is calculated in multiple places
05:05<andythenorth>which makes it quite easy to accidentally include a bug
05:05<andythenorth>so I was going to cap it to max(speed, 79)
05:06<andythenorth>should I warn of that during compile? Sometimes it’s valid to hit the cap, and the warnings will just become noise
05:08<@Alberth>can't you check how often you hit the boundary, or what each speed calculation result is?
05:09<@Alberth>if so you can verify all results are the same, or that you hit the boundary some expected number of times
05:10<andythenorth>I could put a flag on ships that are expected to hit the boundary
05:11<andythenorth>but it’s more ‘stuff’ and will probably get copied-pasted to unwanted places :)
05:11<andythenorth>silent cap seems best
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05:11<andythenorth>we _could_ patch openttd :P
05:12<@Alberth>yeah, ships should fly too!
05:13<andythenorth>the original limit looks related to RL max speed of hovercraft
05:13<andythenorth>Squid contains a ‘cheating speeds’ parameter :P
05:13<andythenorth>which exceeds the limit for hovercraft
05:14<@Alberth>the real world is buggy
05:14<@Alberth>people trust those numbers waay too much
05:15*andythenorth wonders if the simulations have fewer bugs than RL
05:15<andythenorth>Alberth: still playing your game? o_O
05:16<@Alberth>not today yet, but yesterday, yes
05:16<@Alberth>getting to the point where I can just spend as much money as I want :)
05:17<andythenorth>got any ships?
05:17<@Alberth>not yet, but some idiots put forests at an island that needs to be transported :p
05:18<@Alberth>don't have RV either, but perhaps it's too early :)
05:18<@Alberth>although it's weird having trains at 128km/h, and no RVs :)
05:19<andythenorth>what year?
05:20<@Alberth>1908, have no ships either
05:21<andythenorth>sounds odd
05:21<andythenorth>trams from 1870
05:21<andythenorth>ships from 1870
05:22<__ln__>ships are built of wood and the wood is still in the forest on the island. chicken and egg.
05:22<@Alberth>oh, you're completely correct, I am too sleepy
05:23*andythenorth small panic over
05:24<@Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/WrudstoneBayTransport,1908-01-12.sav
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05:31<andythenorth>Pikkaphone bob
05:32<Pikkaphone>si madam
05:32<Pikkaphone>what does?
05:32<andythenorth>yes
05:33<andythenorth>it does
05:34<Pikkaphone>splendid
05:34<andythenorth>and yours?
05:35<Pikkaphone>such is life
05:35<Pikkaphone>as a man with a tin pot on his head once said
05:35<andythenorth>anything new on the blag?
05:36<andythenorth>I could look, but I don’t want to wear down the shoe leather
05:36<Pikkaphone>nothing new, no
05:36<Pikkaphone>should try and get a ship done tonight, I suppose
05:37<andythenorth>Pikkaphone: has got a squid game nearby?
05:37<andythenorth>I want someone to tell me which costs is wrong
05:37<andythenorth>some must be
05:37<andythenorth>stands to reason
05:37<Pikkaphone>I am a phone
05:38<Pikkaphone>so I have nothing nearby, unfortunately
05:38<andythenorth>sad times
05:38<Pikkaphone>I can have a look when I get home though
05:38<andythenorth>I suspect copy-paste amongst other naughties
05:39<Pikkaphone>are variable running costs not a thing?
05:39<andythenorth>not
05:39<andythenorth>could be, but cba
05:40<andythenorth>you think they’re worth it?
05:40<Pikkaphone>hmm
05:40<Pikkaphone>for trains I think so
05:40<Pikkaphone>for ships, I don't know
05:40<andythenorth>ships go faster unloaded
05:40<andythenorth>little silly thing
05:40<andythenorth>not realisms much
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05:41<Pikkaphone>hmmmm
05:41<andythenorth>is quak
05:41<Pikkaphone>I don't know how realism variable running costs are for ships, either
05:42<frosch123>hola
05:42<Pikkaphone>planes yes, trains and rvs maybe
05:42<Pikkaphone>bonjour monsieur
05:43<@Alberth>hihi
05:43<LordAro>o/
05:44<andythenorth>ships is costing more when loading
05:44<andythenorth>due to steve and dore
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05:44<Pikkaphone>yes, both of them
05:44<Pikkaphone>although if it's waiting for cargo
05:44<andythenorth>riding at anchor?
05:45<Pikkaphone>Steve might as well stay in the pub
05:45<andythenorth>is variables a thing I should add?
05:45<andythenorth>I could be talked into it
05:45<andythenorth>but I don’t miss it in my games
05:45<Pikkaphone>I don't know
05:46<Pikkaphone>they're more useful if you have higher running costs
05:47<Pikkaphone>so it's probably a complete rebalance rather than just adding a variablity
05:52*andythenorth should play a game
05:52<andythenorth>for testings
05:53<@Alberth>build me a few boats?
05:54*andythenorth has to go shopping :P
05:54<andythenorth>for ice lollies
05:54<andythenorth>apparently
05:54<kalenz_>Hi, I have a source code related question: Is there a rationale for disabling the builtins functions of the script language?
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05:58<frosch123>that depends on the functions. scripts shall not lock-up, break or crash ottd, they shall not cause security issues, they shall work on all platforms
06:02<andythenorth>it’s been a while since last MP game
06:02<andythenorth>maybe we should play one
06:02<frosch123>true, sounds like an idea :)
06:03<@Alberth>+1
06:03<Pikkaphone>I will crash, but I'll still play
06:03<frosch123>not sure whether we manage to setup a server without pm though
06:04<kalenz_>frosch123: ok, I was wondering for functions such as compilestring and {get,set}{root,const}table which do not seem like breaking ottd or security issues
06:04<kalenz_>:)
06:05<andythenorth>I am not free until tonight
06:05<andythenorth>it usually takes that long to set up a game… :P
06:06<andythenorth>can haz new GS? o_O
06:06<Pikkaphone>better write one
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06:09<andythenorth>:(
06:09<andythenorth>squirrely
06:10<andythenorth>also idea
06:10<andythenorth>don’t have one
06:10*andythenorth -> shops
06:10<andythenorth>not ships
06:10<andythenorth>biab
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06:10<Pikkaphone>what's a good goal?
06:10<Pikkaphone>that's where I get stuck
06:12<frosch123>challening to play a different play style
06:12<frosch123>+g
06:13<frosch123>transporting stuff in unusual ways
06:13<@Alberth>deliver stuff by ship?
06:13<@Alberth>not sure you can actually check that :(
06:13<frosch123>i forgot whether the cdist functions have already been committed
06:14<frosch123>but there is a certain chance to check vehicles, whether they carry cargo, where they are from, where they are going to, and what cdist thinks about that
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07:34<andythenorth>what ho GS
07:36<Pikka>ho ho, GS
07:37<Pikka>someone's having fun with fireworks out there
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07:40<@planetmaker>hi hi
07:40<andythenorth>ho ho GS <- it tells jokes on random intervals?
07:42<Pikka>yes
07:42<Pikka>also look, here's planetmaker to set up the server
07:42<andythenorth>I should release some squid
07:43<@planetmaker>no guarantee how stable the connection is from the train, Pikka ;)
07:43<Pikka>andythenorth, I'm looking at your costs ;)
07:43<Pikka>a couple of anomnomnomalies spotted...
07:44<andythenorth>oh indeed
07:45<andythenorth>can I fix?
07:49<Pikka>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=71080&p=1130212#p1130212
07:49<Pikka>here's an airing cupboard, have fun
07:50<andythenorth>ta
07:50<andythenorth>I shall fix
07:50<andythenorth>some were fixed already, but I got board
07:59<andythenorth>ships can only do 79mph
07:59<andythenorth>shamefule
08:04<@Alberth>@calc 79*1.6
08:04<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 126.4
08:05<@Alberth>I don't think you'd want to fly faster than 126km/h over the water, it's not safe :)
08:06<andythenorth>hrm
08:06<andythenorth>I could make the big paddle steamer more expensive
08:06<andythenorth>but then you can’t afford it in early game
08:09<LordAro>Alberth, but what if you want to make some of these boats? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_speed_record :p
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08:10<andythenorth>you don’t
08:10<@Alberth>we'll talk again when there is a real pax service with those boats :p
08:11<@Alberth>game doesn't care about weird money-spending hobbies of wealthy tycoons :p
08:11<LordAro>:p
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08:46<andythenorth>ships fixed
08:46<andythenorth>RC 7 time
08:53<Pikka>splendid
08:54<Pikka>so where's the server? openttdcoop?
08:54<andythenorth>where’s the GS? o-O
08:54*andythenorth should invent one
08:54<Pikka>what's the goal
08:54<Pikka>?
09:02<LordAro>"Have fun"
09:02<Pikka>wrong
09:03<LordAro>dang
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09:07*Pikka will do a new version of av9.8, we can test that too inna multiplayer
09:08<andythenorth>Pikka: I have no imagination for goals :( I can only think of cargo
09:08<andythenorth>or connection goals
09:08<andythenorth>or build an xyz thing in every town
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09:20<frosch123>andythenorth: "no trains"? :p
09:20<frosch123>only rv, tram, ship
09:21<andythenorth>my four year old knows it as ‘the train game’
09:21<andythenorth>btw
09:21<frosch123>(no aircraft as well)
09:21<andythenorth>frosch123: and a goal?
09:21<andythenorth>you all hate RVs :P
09:22<frosch123>i do not know the town gs good enough
09:22<frosch123>there are too many
09:22<frosch123>so, i guess ncg again :p
09:22<LordAro>eGRVTS + TTRS = easy (and surprisingly fun) RV game
09:23<andythenorth>frosch123: SV = best
09:23<frosch123>i don't like eithe egrvts nor ttrs :p
09:23<frosch123>ogfx+rv is way better
09:23<frosch123>and about any town set is prettier than ttrs
09:23<andythenorth>you can be appalled by how ‘alpha’ road hog is
09:23<andythenorth>it needs a test
09:32*andythenorth invents first past the post GS
09:32<andythenorth>for multiplayer
09:32<andythenorth>first company to achieve goals wins
09:33<andythenorth>unfair if you have more players [shrug]
09:33<andythenorth>goals are 3 random cargo challenges in a row, you get told the first one, then the second is revealed after completing first, etc
09:33<andythenorth>messes with your ability to plan your network
09:34<andythenorth>cargo challenges themselves are straightforward, just deliver x amount / year (or in total)
09:34<Pikka>same cargo for all players?
09:34<Pikka>head-to-head?
09:35<andythenorth>maybe
09:35<andythenorth>maybe has to be to a specific destination
09:36<andythenorth>dunno
09:36<andythenorth>don’t think GS is better for over-thinking it :)
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09:46<andythenorth>Pikka: are you going render hover zellepins?
09:46<andythenorth>the srn 4 is too small
09:46<andythenorth>and the other thing I have is all wrong
09:47<andythenorth>70 pax, but no cabins :P
09:47<Pikka>eventually
09:48<andythenorth>the other thing is approximately this http://www.jameshovercraft.co.uk/hover/images/craft/vt2/vt2_headline.jpg
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10:02*Pikka things squiddyships are too cheap, overall :D
10:03<Pikka>although not by much
10:11<Pikka>there
10:12<Pikka>new av9.8, now with rounder capacities
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10:12<Pikka>33% fewer helicopters and 100% fewer supersonics
10:13<Pikka>but 33% more small aircraft, including 66% more turboprops.
10:15<Pikka>ugh
10:15<Pikka>I should put in the reduce-costs parameter too
10:16<ccfreak2k>pikkachu
10:16<ccfreak2k>I think I already made this joke.
10:18<Pikka>choo choo
10:32<Pikka>town has noise concerns about airport
10:33<Pikka>build airport further out from town, build bus and mail road connections to town centre, job done
10:33<Pikka>cargodist is alright
10:40<@Alberth>town seems a little too concerned at times :)
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10:57<Pikka>andythenorth, so the sprites for the Pegwell SuperZeppelin aren't final?
10:57<Pikka>lots of pixels and funnywake :)
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11:43<andythenorth>Pikka: more expensive ships?
11:48<andythenorth>Alberth: town airport controls are boring :(
11:48<andythenorth>imo
11:49<@Alberth>I have that problem with air thingies in general
11:53<andythenorth>there’s probably a config I could edit somewhere :P
11:53<andythenorth>trying to ‘fix’ air routes in core game is boring
11:55<Pikka>smaller aircraft are nice
11:55<Pikka>smaller towns are nice
11:55<Pikka>av9.8 is nice
11:56<andythenorth>it’s a serious mistake
11:56<andythenorth>AV9
11:56<andythenorth>allegedly
11:56<andythenorth>I like it
11:56<andythenorth>easy choices
11:56<andythenorth>“plane"
11:56<andythenorth>“big plane"
11:56<andythenorth>“helichop chop"
11:57<andythenorth>Pikka: penguin hoverzellepin is just ogfx sprites
11:57<andythenorth>not really right
11:59<Pikka>hmm
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12:01<andythenorth>also I should expensiver the ships?
12:01<Pikka>dunno
12:01<Pikka>cop out and make it a parameter
12:06<andythenorth>nah
12:06<andythenorth>game has that already isn’t it
12:06<andythenorth>when I looked today, I thought they are bit cheap
12:07<andythenorth>maybe run cost should go up
12:07<andythenorth>I didn’t test in a game though
12:07<andythenorth>if buy cost is too high, it’s too boring in early game
12:14<Pikka>who builds ships first thing though?
12:22<andythenorth>andythenorth does
12:22<Wolf01>me too
12:31<andythenorth>variable buy costs? o_O
12:31<andythenorth>first one is cheap…
12:31<andythenorth>like drugs
12:35<@Alberth>wouldn't the current year be much easier than?
12:36<@Alberth>*then
12:36<andythenorth>or length of game
12:36<andythenorth>dunno
12:37<andythenorth>I’m going to leave them alone for now
12:37<andythenorth>test game? o_O
12:37<andythenorth>where is server?
12:37<@Alberth>sounds like a good idea
12:37<@Alberth>make them relatively correct against each other
12:37<@Alberth>perhaps also against some other newgrfs, that's bonus
12:38<@Alberth>and otherwise people will use a basecost grf
12:38<frosch123>yeah, triple running cost when attaching wagons of different grf
12:39<andythenorth>ho chuggles
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12:44<keoz>any way for a gamescript to know what GRF's are used ?
12:46<frosch123>nope
12:46<keoz>k :)
12:47<andythenorth>“capture the castle” GS?
12:47<andythenorth>try and win as many towns as possible
12:47<andythenorth>each town has a win criteria
12:48<Pikka>splendid
12:48<andythenorth>play against other people, or against the clock
12:48<@planetmaker>that actually is a great idea indeed
12:48<andythenorth>do a scenario version, run a league table
12:48<andythenorth>wish we could change vehicle sets on scenarios :P
12:48<Pikka>nope
12:48<Pikka>"can't" be done D;
12:49<Pikka>so where's the server? openttdcoop?
12:49<andythenorth>anyone made a save?
12:49<andythenorth>1.4.2 game?
12:49<@planetmaker>could try setting up one after I filled my fridge. That's something which needs doing about now :)
12:49<andythenorth>where’s the channel?
12:49<Pikka>eh, 1.4.2
12:49<andythenorth>I have to bath two children and make them sleep
12:49<Pikka>why not "latest"
12:49<andythenorth>takes ~hours
12:49<Pikka>?
12:50<frosch123>we want nightly for steam
12:50<@planetmaker>'lastest' after nightly is run soonish
12:50<Pikka>yes
12:50<@planetmaker>we would join #openttdcoop.nightly for that. But need to go for 30 minutes now... be back then and will see what I can get running
12:51<frosch123>so, what gs?
12:51<andythenorth>SV of course
12:52<andythenorth>which FIRS?
12:52<andythenorth>or not FIRS
12:52<Pikka>heart of darkness of course
12:52<andythenorth>where is Bob Industries Renewal
12:52<andythenorth>?
12:52<frosch123>i am thinking about: train limit=0, sea-level=70%, yeti, av9, squid, ogfx+rv, heqs
12:52<Pikka>or yeti
12:52<andythenorth>if yeti, we’d all better download now...
12:53*andythenorth does that
12:53<frosch123>using yeti has the advantage that andy can contentrate on squid, instead of firs :p
12:53<Pikka>we should trains though
12:53<frosch123>ok, but still sea level 70
12:53<frosch123>with short bridges, so trains are useless :p
12:53<andythenorth>horsey
12:53<andythenorth>slow expensive bridges grf
12:53<Pikka>it's boring without any trains
12:53<Pikka>horsey indeed
12:54<andythenorth>termite
12:54<Pikka>horse + 10cc? more to download :D
12:54<frosch123>what's horsey?
12:54<frosch123>ah, irony?
12:54<frosch123>irony horsey?
12:54<andythenorth>I should make one with only narrow gauge + metro
12:54<andythenorth>that would screw with things
12:54<Pikka>termite is what irish people use to weld rails together
12:54<frosch123>lets' try to de-mess my settings
12:55<frosch123>they always end up with silly test scenarios
12:56<Pikka>did V453000 update yeti, or can still nothing transport uranium?
12:56<Pikka>except NUTS
12:57<andythenorth>can Horsey not?
12:57<Pikka>does it have a "hazardous" wagon?
12:58<andythenorth>yeti is so pretty
12:58<andythenorth>just needs the rest of the game redrawing to suit
12:59<andythenorth>hmm
12:59<andythenorth>horsey not transporting hazardous
12:59<andythenorth>I can fix that and do another RC
12:59<Pikka>you shouldn't have to
12:59<andythenorth>also why steel twice in yeti?
12:59<frosch123>is it an issue if one cargo type is missing?
13:00<andythenorth>also squid and such not transporting yeti
13:00<Pikka>yeti should define one of the standard cargo classes for uranium, so that vehicle sets without special hazardous wagons can still transport it
13:00<andythenorth>well
13:00<andythenorth>yes
13:00<andythenorth>I do have a list of refits that is supposed to be all classes
13:00<andythenorth>but I left out hazardous because it’s stupid on its own
13:00<frosch123>no transports for yeti would be an issue :)
13:00<frosch123>so, no yeti?
13:01<frosch123>just ogfx+industries?
13:01<Pikka>tai! no, not tai.
13:01<andythenorth>tai has industries?
13:02<Pikka>old tai
13:02<andythenorth>sounds like a cologne
13:03<Pikka>maybe
13:04<Pikka>hmm
13:04<Pikka>av9.8 would be able to transport yeti uranium
13:04<frosch123>hmm, sv won't work with islands
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13:04<frosch123>you need a proper target area
13:04<andythenorth>I’ve done it with islands
13:05<Pikka>big islands
13:05<andythenorth>gets a bit intense on ships
13:05<andythenorth>it’s actually easier with ships, less contention
13:05<andythenorth>My last game was 8 industries or so
13:05<andythenorth>also I am bored of seeing FIRS so ANother industry grf is good
13:05<Pikka>make sure you set the cost reduction parameter in av9 :D
13:07<andythenorth>also 90’ curves on or ships are borked
13:08<kalenz_>frosch123: btw, my question earlier was because of this : http://forum.squirrel-lang.org/default.aspx?g=posts&m=8393
13:08<kalenz_>So good thing builtins are deactivated
13:13<frosch123>kalenz_: official squirrel development is about version 3
13:14<frosch123>we use version 2 with quite a number of custom fixes meanwhile
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13:22<andythenorth>V453000: so are you fixing YETI uranium class? o_O Or I should fix my grfs?
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13:25<frosch123>termite disabled due to fatal error using invalid id
13:25<frosch123>what's that about?
13:25<frosch123>should i read the readme?
13:30<@Alberth>maybe it only works together with iron horse?
13:30<frosch123>i am using iron horse
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13:34<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/sv20140830.sav <- that's the type of map and settings i have in mind
13:35<frosch123>but it needs sorting out why termite is broken, or we need to remove it
13:35<andythenorth>frosch123: dunno what the termite error is :O
13:35<andythenorth>working for me in 1.4.2
13:35<andythenorth>using termite 0.3
13:37<frosch123>well, check the save :)
13:40<andythenorth>frosch123: works for me
13:40*andythenorth wonders if base set issue
13:40<frosch123>base set issue? :p that would be a bug as well :)
13:41*andythenorth adds missing grfs
13:41<andythenorth>it’s a conflict with something
13:42<andythenorth>frosch123: it’s a conflict with FRISS
13:42<andythenorth>moving termite up disables FRISS
13:42<andythenorth>VAST objects not on bananas btw
13:43<frosch123>really, how did i get them then?
13:44<andythenorth>coop pack?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26763 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2014-08-30 17:45:19 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 41 changes by telk5093
13:46<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/sv20140830_2.sav <- that's my suggestion then
13:47<andythenorth>no hog :)
13:47<andythenorth>oh well, it’s bad to look at right now anyway
13:48<frosch123>ah, forgot that :)
13:48<frosch123>does it need adding?
13:49<andythenorth>up to you
13:49<andythenorth>it’s playable, but ugly
13:50<frosch123>ok, then i choose to not regenerate more maps :)
13:50<frosch123>needed several tries to get some islands
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13:57<@Alberth>quite a few islands even :)
14:00<keoz>V453000: is it intended that all the houses' cargo production/acceptance appears as completely disabled when running YETI ?
14:01<Sylf>I'm thinking using yeti in city growth game isn't the best idea
14:01<keoz>Yeah that's what I was thinking :)
14:01<Sylf>all yeti cargoes are not stuff accepted by houses etc
14:04<keoz>Well it is possible if considering Workers Yards as the equivalent of houses, in regard to growth triggering.
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14:04<@Alberth>or cargo to industries of the town in general?
14:05<keoz>That's already technically integrated. Category 4.
14:06<@Alberth>ok, just making a suggestion
14:06<keoz>No problem :)
14:07<keoz>I were more thinking in merging workers/food/goods in only one cat.
14:07<keoz>s/goods/building/materials/
14:08<keoz>Anyway. Time for a beer.
14:08<Sylf>yeti doesn't have "goods", so you know
14:08<@Alberth>yeti doesn't have beer, does it?
14:09<Sylf>it should!
14:09<Sylf>beer makes better workers
14:09<keoz>V453000: there's an important feature request here.
14:12<keoz>Alberth: actually i'm thinking that you're right about cargo to industries in general, since in any case, it doesn't matter whether cargos are delivered to houses or industries.
14:12<keoz>Hence, workers arriving to a town industry are the same as pax arriving to towns.
14:12<@Alberth>yeti does have grain and fruit :)
14:14<keoz>I count all cargos in any case in my script. Raw materials are requested by cities only when becoming really big.
14:14<keoz>The idea is that you have a full growth only if you have some local industry
14:14<@Alberth>k
14:15<@Alberth>I only played a growth script a looong time ago
14:15*andythenorth never has
14:15<@Alberth>nowadays there are sooo many :)
14:15<keoz>There are a lot now
14:15<andythenorth>it’s a growth industry
14:15<keoz>:)
14:15<keoz>indeed
14:15<andythenorth>what challenges for capture the castle GS?
14:16<andythenorth>- deliver x amount of cargo
14:16<andythenorth>- pick up x amount of cargo?
14:16<keoz>deliver fish in mountains
14:16<andythenorth>- build industries?
14:16<andythenorth>- build other stuff?
14:16<@Alberth>transport pax
14:16<andythenorth>- average rating?
14:16<@planetmaker>- grow to size X
14:16<@planetmaker>- have at least X industries of type Y
14:16<@planetmaker>(serviced with > 50% or so)
14:17<Sylf>yeah, usually they're for those kind of challenges set by the scripts, useful for the young players of today who can't set their own goals
14:17<@Alberth>move x pax / month
14:17<@planetmaker>- pickup pax / mail by each transport mode (rail/air/road/trains)
14:17<keoz>Sylf: you're speaking about growth scripts ?
14:18<Sylf>actually, any goal scripts
14:18<keoz>'cause a script doesn't necessarily has goals :)
14:18<@Alberth>Sylf: one of the fun parts is that you don't know what you have to do
14:18<andythenorth>Sylf: expand the argument…?
14:18<@Alberth>it forces you to so things you normally never do
14:19<@Alberth>*do
14:19<andythenorth>this is the argument that people are losing the ability to be exploratory and playful and originally creative?
14:19<Pikka>andy: I'm working on it. :P
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14:19<Pikka>@ what challenges for capture the castle GS?
14:20<@Alberth>fund an industry
14:21<Sylf>andythenorth, pretty much. people losing their own creativity to set their own unique goals
14:22<andythenorth>you see, I want to agree, because it’s fashionable to do so
14:22<andythenorth>but I kind of don't
14:22<andythenorth>even though I see plenty of evidence in the twenty-something’s I employ that they are a bit lost with simple win conditions
14:22<Pikka>better than wimple sin conditions
14:23<andythenorth>but I have played 10 years of ottd, and frankly the sandbox thing gets fricking old
14:23<andythenorth>wimple sin is a different GS
14:23<andythenorth>we’d need new sprites
14:23<Pikka>we would
14:23<andythenorth>* a bit lost without simple win conditions
14:23<Pikka>and I dunno, kids these days and their minecraft
14:23<Pikka>they're doing alright in a sandbox
14:24<andythenorth>kids these days and their Tiny Tower, Pocket Rocket Trains, How to Train Your Dragon, Disco Zoo, Dragons, more Dragons
14:24<@Alberth>generalizing is always useful to prove either side :)
14:24<andythenorth>they’re all goal objected and ‘level up’ and crap
14:24<andythenorth>but my four year old just ignores all that and sandboxes
14:24<andythenorth>he doesn’t even make rational economic decisions :(
14:24<Pikka>shameful
14:24<andythenorth>I know
14:24<Sylf>:) That's the power of 4 year old
14:25<andythenorth>he’ll buy the least optimised thing
14:25<andythenorth>inside I’m screaming
14:25<andythenorth>and outside I’m screaming
14:25<Sylf>somehow, they lose that creativity between that and 14
14:25<@Alberth>you have to work on keeping it
14:25<Pikka>the youf of today
14:26<Pikka>I think most people have always responded better to wimple sin conditions
14:27<andythenorth>apparently there’s less of that about
14:27<@Alberth>instant positive feedback is always good
14:27<andythenorth>due to social media
14:27<Pikka>you see it in games more nowadays because you have more games being made by slick marketing types
14:27<Pikka>rather than spotty herberts in their attic
14:27<andythenorth>most iOS games are bollocks from what I can see
14:27<Pikka>like chris sawyer
14:27<andythenorth>shockingly poor
14:28<@Alberth>it sells, and everybody plays it for a week, and then moves on to the next game
14:28<andythenorth>also, sometimes working all this crap out is fun: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=3087400
14:28<andythenorth>but mostly I’d rather have instructions and build something from a Lego box
14:28<andythenorth>due to erm…relaxing
14:28<andythenorth>I have enough creative personal goal setting all day long
14:28<Pikka>ehh
14:28<andythenorth>plus my wife has goals for me
14:29<andythenorth>so GS for me
14:29<Sylf>:D
14:29<Pikka>not to mention lego is a really, really crap material for building complex mechanical machines
14:29<Pikka>far too much give and flex
14:29<andythenorth>part of the challenge...
14:29<Pikka>:)
14:29<Pikka>my brother has a good model of the story bridge
14:29<andythenorth>try build a crawler that doesn’t tear itself apart
14:29<Pikka>but it doesn't do anything except look like the story bridge
14:30<andythenorth>oh yes, this https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/14071162377/
14:32<Pikka>you broke it
14:32<@planetmaker>so... did we have a savegame?
14:32<@planetmaker>r26762
14:32<Pikka>frosch123 had one
14:33<@Alberth>(19:46:17) frosch123: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/sv20140830_2.sav <- that's my suggestion then
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14:42<andythenorth>chief playtester https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/14264456221/
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14:42<andythenorth>I should finish this one, it has been around for about 6 years :P https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/14085396420/
14:43<Pikka>nice trucks, too
14:44<andythenorth>have to compress scale isn’t it
14:44<andythenorth>not too much realisms
14:45<Pikka>lego is fun
14:45<Pikka>but
14:45<Pikka>cg is less dusty
14:45<Pikka>not to mention less expensive
14:45<andythenorth>also
14:45<andythenorth>yes
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15:57<FUZxxl>Hello!
15:58<FUZxxl>I'd like to know if there is an efficient design for a change between right-hand traffic and left-hand traffic.
15:58<FUZxxl>I need this because I made a construction mistake before and now a rather large line comes out in the wrong orientation.
15:59<@planetmaker>FUZxxl, just build a bridge for one direction over the other direction?
15:59<@planetmaker>and if you want it efficient, double that bridge
16:00<FUZxxl>Yeah, that's a bit like what I did.
16:00<FUZxxl>I made a diagonal rail for one side and a tunnel below it for the other side.
16:00<FUZxxl>I suck at junctions.
16:00<@Alberth>just practice more :)
16:01<FUZxxl>thank you
16:05<@Alberth>don't worry too much about it, I have been playing openttd for 7 years, and still build junctions mostly at random until it works :)
16:06<@Alberth>of course it doesn't help I don't terraform, so every junction is unique just due to landscape :)
16:10<@planetmaker>on the contrary. That helps a lot, I think
16:10<@planetmaker>As only that way it teaches you to make the best of what's possible :)
16:10<@planetmaker>building identical on flat surfaces is boring after doing 3 times the same thing :)
16:10<@planetmaker>(but you agree there, for sure :) )
16:21<FUZxxl>true.
16:21<FUZxxl>And here I am, stuck with OpenTTD 1.3.3 because of Debian.
16:22<@planetmaker>no, you aren't
16:22<@planetmaker>http://www.openttd.org/download-stable
16:23<@planetmaker>either get that debian package and install it. Or simply get the generic archive and unzip it into a dir of your choice
16:23<FUZxxl>I have a slight dislike for introducing foreign packages into my system. They tend to cause trouble.
16:24<@planetmaker>well. The debian maintainer of that package is OpenTTD developer ;)
16:24<FUZxxl>hehe
16:24<@planetmaker>or just use the generic download, unzip and enjoy. OpenTTD needs no install
16:25<FUZxxl>true.
16:35<FUZxxl>btw, the map in the game menu
16:35<FUZxxl>is it auto-generated?
16:37<@Alberth>no, it's hand made, we have a competition to make a new map
16:37<FUZxxl>ah, I see.
16:37<FUZxxl>How many maps are there?
16:38<@planetmaker>only one. But millions of random ones
16:38<FUZxxl>ah, I see.
16:38<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/titlegame/ <-- that was the competition, though, if you're interested
16:38<FUZxxl>And I guess the game selects a different part of the map every time it launches?
16:38<@planetmaker>no, always the same
16:39<@planetmaker>the upper left corner is fixed to the upper left corner of your window
16:39<FUZxxl>huch?
16:39<FUZxxl>okay...
16:39<@planetmaker>you're talking about the title screen, yes?
16:39<@planetmaker>and 1.3.x has different than 1.4.x
16:39<@planetmaker>we change every year
16:39<FUZxxl>ah, I see.
16:39<FUZxxl>That makes sense.
16:40<@planetmaker>or round about. Depends whether I remember in a timely manner :P
16:40<FUZxxl>Your game rocks.
16:42<FUZxxl>But I suck at playing it.
16:42<FUZxxl>30 years in, I try to expand to new towns.
16:42<FUZxxl>But some of them won't let me build stations.
16:43<@planetmaker>depends on how you define 'success'. A game is successful, if you enjoy your time playing it :)
16:43<@planetmaker>and yeah, towns remember when you cut down trees
16:43<@planetmaker>even when it's for tracks or stations
16:45<FUZxxl>:-)
16:45<FUZxxl>I usually go there and plant a bunch of new trees but that's often quite cumbersome.
16:45<FUZxxl>BTW, does plating trees where trees already exist raise your approval raitings?
16:46<@planetmaker>it doesn't.
16:47<@planetmaker>tactics which works: first delete all trees in a towns vicinity. Then plant them all anew :P
16:47-!-DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:47*Alberth usually moves to a different town that wants my services :)
16:48<@Alberth>but I concentrate on industries mostly
16:48<+glx>planetmaker: yeah your rating can't drop under the lower level anyway :)
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16:53<FUZxxl>planetmaker: yepp, that works.
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17:11<@planetmaker>Supercheese, is https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6098 thus considered resolved?
17:13<Supercheese>has the string been changed? It's a really minor thing, but it should be "beginning" rather than "begin"
17:13<Supercheese>My initial suggestion was made late at night, frosch rightly corrected my first suggestion
17:14<frosch123>noone committed :)
17:14<Supercheese>Yeah I see no changes as of yet
17:15<Supercheese>it is, of course, hardly a game-breaking issue :P
17:15<@planetmaker>I read your comment as 'oh, frosch is right'
17:15<Supercheese>Yes, "frosch is right, it should be changed to "front" or "beginning", but a change is still required"
17:16<Supercheese>"...wrapping around at the begin"
17:16<Supercheese>is clearly a typo
17:17<frosch123>it's programmer's english :)
17:17<frosch123>containers always have a begni() and a end() method :)
17:21<Rubidium>why would it be "beginning" and "end", and thus not "ending"?
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17:23<Rubidium>otherwise... we could change begin with rend to be even more "right"
17:23<__ln__>hmm, so "begin" is not a noun at all..? container function naming is evil then. blame bjarne?
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17:41<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: functions are (usually) actions, so they should be a verb?
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>loads of functions have the name "do_x"
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>also it's "sort" and not "sorting"
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>what to do with GreyFurryThingThatMakesMiauEvenThoughItJustGotFood?
17:49<+glx>open the door ?
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17:57<andythenorth>good night
17:58<frosch123>night
17:58<@Alberth>night andy
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20:20<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sun Aug 31 00:00:41 2014