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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-09-01

---Logopened Mon Sep 01 00:00:52 2014
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01:48<andythenorth>Pikka: isn’t it
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03:40<@peter1138>’'’'’'’'’'’'
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10:34<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, Milliarden (de) = billion (en) ;). I'm pretty sure Mrd is not an abbreviation which is generally understood.
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10:34<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the british should just go back to the long scale :p
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>it's the only one that makes any sense...
10:35<@planetmaker>I can agree there, but won't help you being understood ;)
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>the alternative is that i start advocating base 12 :p
10:44<Xaroth|Work>do like some countries teach
10:44<Xaroth|Work>increase the amount of ks
10:44<Xaroth|Work>i.e. 1m == 1kk
10:44<Xaroth|Work>1b == 1kkk
10:45<Xaroth|Work>(which I find a highly annoying method of noting it, but that's me)
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds stupid
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>also, 1b=1mm :p
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>it's a bi-million
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>a million sqared
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>likewise, a tri-million is a million qubed (10^6)^3
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>(have i mentioned that this is the only system that makes sense?)
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11:11<LordAro>no one uses the long scale anymore
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>except, everybody uses the long scale...
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>except the americans, who have no clue, and the british, who are misguided
11:14<LordAro>really? huh
11:14<LordAro>i was of course, only talking about the English speaking world :p
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>only that the majority of the world doesn't speak english
11:15<LordAro>well, that's their fault
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>all european languages except english and greek use the long scale
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>the greek system is based on the myriad (10000)
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>asian languages have other scales
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>this gets really funny in places like canada, where the french part uses the long scale, and the english part uses the short scale...
11:17<LordAro>clearly everyone should just use scientific notation
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11:35<@Alberth>o/
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12:52<|xk05|>is there a significant advantage to using the unstable 1.4.3 over 1.4.2 at this time?
12:55<LordAro>there's no 1.4.3
12:55<LordAro>trunk is different to the 1.4.x branch
12:56<|xk05|>ok, i suppose i meant nightly
12:56<LordAro>obviously, trunk has more bug fixes and features than the stable branch
12:56<LordAro>although nothing is coming to mind
12:56<|xk05|>ok
12:57<LordAro>trunk is very rarely unstable though
12:57<|xk05|>im using the kubuntu 1.3.3 and im looking to upgrade to 1.4
12:58<|xk05|>im just wondering if i want to just use the stable .deb or if there is a compelling reason to use nightly
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12:59<@Alberth>depends whether you use bleeding edge newgrfs
13:00<Taede>and which (if any) multiplayer servers
13:00<@Alberth>good point Taede
13:01<|xk05|>ok, my next question is, do i need to purge the 1.3.3 repo version before i install the .deb from the website, or can i upgrade over it?
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13:02<@Alberth>no idea, try it?
13:03<@Alberth>in general you want to keep the openttd graphics data files
13:03<@Alberth>if those are attached to your 1.3 version, it may be best to keep it
13:04<LordAro>i think apt can cope with overwriting the old version
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13:06<keoz>plop
13:08<|xk05|>ok, synaptic says the kubuntu packages are opengfx 0.4.7-1, the website links to opengfx 0.5.0 for both stable and nightly
13:11<|xk05|>soo, i can dpkg -i the stable .deb and see if it works, if it doesnt, i can purge all the distro stuff and install clean
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13:12<Eddi|zuHause>you probably get warnings of missing sprites when using an older version of opengfx
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13:13<Eddi|zuHause>these are not critical
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13:14<Eddi|zuHause>but some buttons may have missing icons (represented as a question mark)
13:14<@Alberth>hi andy
13:14<andythenorth>lo
13:14<andythenorth>got a save for the game that me and pikka bob lost yesterday
13:14<andythenorth>want to try again
13:14<@Alberth>never giving up eh? :)
13:15<andythenorth>never die
13:15<andythenorth>etc
13:15<andythenorth>:P
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>never capitulate?
13:15<andythenorth>well maybe once a day
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>(is that a word?)
13:15<andythenorth>it is a word
13:16-!-luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
13:20<|xk05|>aah. it wants some complicated apt voodoo, then. ill just go the clean install route
13:22<keoz>You can also compile it. It's easier if you want to have more than one version.
13:22*|xk05| nods
13:30<LordAro>complicated? i don;t think so
13:30<LordAro>just double-click the .deb, even
13:30<LordAro>or download the generic linux binary
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13:37<@Alberth>hola
13:39<andythenorth>quak
13:39<|xk05|>ok. here's what happened, if its of any use. previous to upgrading from my distro's 1.3.3, i have used the in-game installer to upgrade gfx, etc. to 0.5.0
13:40<frosch123>hai
13:40-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host131-237-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:41<Wolf01>hi hi
13:41<@planetmaker>hi hi
13:43<|xk05|>i used 'apt-get remove' to remove the distro's 1.3.3, and 'apt-get autoremove' to clear the distro's opengfx, etc., packages, which preserved, apparently, the upgraded opengrx, which came from the in-game upgrade tool, i did this instead of using 'apt-get purge'
13:45<|xk05|>this was apparently the right way, because after 'dpkg -i' on the downloaded stable .deb from the website, all the content, including the scenarios and opengfx 0.5.0 has been preserved, and my new openttd 1.4.2 seems to be working normally
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26766 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2014-09-01 17:45:33 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 5 changes by juanjo
13:47<@peter1138>"double-click the .deb" is a truely bizarre concept.
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14:16<@Alberth>with ubuntu, anything is possible :)
14:22<LordAro>s/ubuntu/\*nix/
14:23<@Alberth>I wouldn't bet on that :p
14:24<@planetmaker>nope, me neither :)
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15:23<Pikka>andythenorth, frequently
15:24<andythenorth>yes
15:24<andythenorth>but not always
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15:35<@peter1138>i watched dr who
15:35<@peter1138>been a while, not seen it since the first series of the restart
15:35<@peter1138>modern tech though... via iplayer on a nintendo wii :p
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15:44<andythenorth>flat docks?
15:44<Pikka>does it?
15:44<andythenorth>no
15:44<andythenorth>but I can build lovely ones on slopes
15:48<Pikka>better get patching
15:49<andythenorth>:(
15:49<andythenorth>anyone for losing at MP?
15:49<andythenorth>game is up
15:49<Pikka>mebe
15:50<andythenorth>Alberth: frosch123 planetmaker game?
15:51<@Alberth>too late for me
15:51<@planetmaker>pretty late for that, yes
15:51<andythenorth>np
15:51<andythenorth>me also
15:51<andythenorth>but going to play for 1 hour anyway :)
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16:09<Wolf01>'night
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17:46<Pikka>hmm
17:46<Pikka>what happened to the debug button?
17:48<+glx>something to enable in the console maybe
17:48<Pikka>I have newgrf dev tools on, I have the sprite aligner and can change newgrfs
17:49<Pikka>but no debug button on vehicles or land area information :/
17:52<frosch123>it's not displayed for original vehicles :p
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17:52<Pikka>oh
17:53<Pikka>okay :)
17:53<+glx>makes sense :)
17:54<Pikka>I was wondering whether a particular industry variable was supported by OpenTTD... since it's in NML, I guess it is. ;)
17:56*Pikka continues to wonder about GS and AI being able to test arbitrary variables of vehicles, industries, etc
17:57<frosch123>they have most, don't they?
17:57<frosch123>biggest issue is the purchase list
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17:57<frosch123>ais just have no clue what a vehicle is after purchase or wagon assembling :)
18:00<+glx>that's why there is an AI callback ;)
18:01<frosch123>not exactly
18:01<+glx>but that doesn't help for "weird" requirements
18:01<frosch123>it's actually completely useless
18:02<+glx>can't remember if we added a way for AI to know if a consist can start
18:03<frosch123>after construction ais can check anything
18:03<frosch123>but they have to iteratively buy and sell vehicles :p
18:03<frosch123>there is no sandbox
18:03<+glx>yeah and IIRC the can/can't start return value isn't really AI usable
18:04<+glx>as it's most likely a string
18:06<frosch123>night
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 02 00:00:59 2014