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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-09-07

---Logopened Sun Sep 07 00:00:27 2014
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02:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26784 /trunk/src (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-07 06:46:03 UTC)
02:46<@DorpsGek>-Codechange [Squirrel]: use WChar for the lexer
02:49<Rubidium>keoz: does help?
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03:38<andythenorth>what do Bananas dependencies actually do?
03:39<@peter1138>what do you think dependencies does
03:39<@peter1138>do does
03:39<andythenorth>does do do
03:40<andythenorth>forces you to download something else before you can download the item
03:40<andythenorth>or downloads the other thing for you automatically
03:40<andythenorth>dunno which
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03:46<@peter1138>manual would be retarded
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03:49<andythenorth>yes, we have never shipped anything retarded, any of us :)
03:50<andythenorth>so if Iron Horse needs Termite, am I going to get whined at if I make Termite a dependency?
03:50<Rubidium>andythenorth: kinda; I tend to try to avoid to write manuals ;)
03:51<Rubidium>andythenorth: I guess 95% doesn't even notice it's selected as dependency
03:51<andythenorth>it’s a bit ‘meh'
03:51<andythenorth>without the right tracks, some vehicles just won’t show up
03:51<andythenorth>but it’s not allowed to put railtypes in the vehicle grf
03:52<Taede>call them bonus vehicles
03:52<andythenorth>doesn’t matter what I call them :P
03:52<andythenorth>nobody reads readmes
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04:29<@peter1138>hmm, downloaded a torrent with a license file that says "all rights reserved"
04:29<@peter1138>so... uh...
04:31<Rubidium>it can get worse
04:32<Rubidium>for some reason Imperial College expects that no one downloads copyrighted materials over their internet lines
04:33<Rubidium>like... what internet page doesn't contain copyrighted materials?
04:33<@peter1138>that shows a lack of understanding about copyright
04:34<Rubidium>and don't say because that contains the twitter icon, which is copyrighted
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04:44<Wolf01>hi hi
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05:22<keoz>Rubidium: yes, the patch fixes the problem. Just tried it.
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05:31<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26785 trunk/src/script/script_instance.cpp (2014-09-07 09:30:57 UTC)
05:31<@DorpsGek>-Fix [Squirrel]: loading a value saved as boolean caused it to be of type integer instead of boolean
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05:39<Pikka>merry times with forum users, hooray
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06:05<@Alberth>try talking english
06:08<AndChat364656> Finding help in nonnative language does not help
06:11<Pikka>hither and yon, andythenorth
06:11<Pikka>chap with the spammy name has been making spammy posts :)
06:11<andythenorth>oh that yes
06:11<andythenorth>I think he ploughs his own furrow
06:11<andythenorth>takes all sorts to make a world
06:12<Pikka>filthy swine
06:13<andythenorth>well futility has to exist somewhere
06:13<andythenorth>might as well be forums
06:13<andythenorth>if only we could channel people’s efforts into useful things :P
06:13<Pikka>could be his own forums, though
06:13<Pikka>on an unrelated note, why aren't my assignments done yet?
06:13<andythenorth>because you didn’t outsource
06:14<andythenorth>or because the humanity
06:14*andythenorth makes grfs
06:14<Pikka>doesn't he just
06:17<@Alberth>yep, no way to keep up with all his releases :)
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06:22<keoz>Please: in Bananas I'm trying to edit a Gamescript entry, by setting a trunk revision as Maximum possible OTTD version for the script. I tried to choose "Nightly" and in the open field, "r26774" but that doesn't work. What's the right way to do that ?
06:23<keoz>(by "doesn't work" I mean that I have an "* Invalid value." message.)
06:24<andythenorth>but will I load graphics Squid?
06:24<andythenorth>is question
06:25<keoz>Oh I think it's fine, the "r" was not necessary.
06:30<@Alberth>that was my first thought when I read your question :)
06:32<andythenorth>this ogfx SRN 4 is only the size of a fishing boat in Squid
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06:32*andythenorth needs hoverzellepins
06:34<andythenorth>Pikka: got 3DS Max? I don’t have it
06:35<andythenorth>I am considering $15
06:35<Pikka>not 2012
06:36<Pikka>and will the model look good rendered at ttdscales?
06:36<Pikka>do we even need hoverzeppelins?
06:36<Pikka>are hoverzeppelins a bad feature, and unrealistic to boot?
06:37<andythenorth>I like them
06:37<andythenorth>in my game
06:38<andythenorth>I think 70mph ships are a BAD FEATURE
06:38<andythenorth>but otoh, I don’t care
06:38<andythenorth>unrealisms is more better
06:38<Pikka>next weekend?
06:38<andythenorth>do your assignments?
06:38<Pikka>assignments now
06:38<Pikka>hoverzeppelins next weekend
06:40<andythenorth>probly need to un-realism the SRN 4
06:40<andythenorth>almost nothing else in Squid is specific model
06:42<andythenorth>random wagon colours in Iron Horse
06:43<appgreidd>what about trolleybuses?
06:43<andythenorth>shall I just randomise between 1CC and 2CC?
06:43<andythenorth>there are no trolleybuses in OTTD
06:43<appgreidd>I know :(
06:43<appgreidd>it would be fun to electrify the streets
06:43<Pikka>I'll do hoberkellepins, you do roadtypes
06:44<andythenorth>I’m doing wagon colours :P
06:44*andythenorth busy
06:44<andythenorth>dunno, could do grey, brown etc
06:44<andythenorth>but meh
06:45<andythenorth>oh there’s that train colour super yak shaving UI
06:45<andythenorth>I’ll just 1CC / 2CC random
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06:59<appgreidd>where can I set whether the trains reverse on red light or just stop
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07:06<Xaroth|Work>in your settings
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07:31<andythenorth>too soon for another IH release? o_O
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07:35<andythenorth>random coloured cabeese?
07:35*andythenorth cba to decide how many wagon types get random 1CC / 2CC
07:35<andythenorth>some? all?
07:36<andythenorth>also mail cars are coloured as freight wagons
07:36<andythenorth>which is lame
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07:38<Pikka>unless wagon override, andy
07:38<Pikka>but bad feetures and all
07:39<andythenorth>there is wagon over-ride?
07:39<andythenorth>what witchcraft is that?
07:41*andythenorth doesn’t like random coloured cabeese
07:41<andythenorth>looks daft
07:43<Wolf01>indeed, I always thought they were all red
07:45<Wolf01> I couldn't believe my eyes, I want one, in my garden
07:46<andythenorth>round and round the garden
07:47<Pikka>choo choo
07:50<Wolf01>meh, I'm tired of this stupid game (2020 my country), too much pay2play and too little automation, I think it's time to resurrect my old idea for playing OTTD with touch screens, by getting rid of the CTRL/SHIFT keys
07:54<andythenorth>pay2play bores the arse off me
07:54<andythenorth>I don’t have any ethical problem, it’s just boring
07:55<Pikka>my favourite is pay2notplay
07:55<Pikka>"this action will take 10 minutes, give us money to make it happen instantly"
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07:55<Wolf01>I found a little trick to regenerate the energy in 5 minutes instead of 2 hours, and it involves only "alt+tab" in the right moment
07:56<Wolf01>but I can't always find the right moment, so I have to wait some more time, or 2 hours directly
07:56<andythenorth>Pikka: exactamly
07:56<andythenorth>everything is timed or staged to the next payment opportunity
07:57<Pikka>and it's all just cow clicking anyway
07:57*Pikka grumbles about the masses being easily entertained by flashing lights
08:00<frosch123>oh, it's september
08:00<frosch123>for a week even :o
08:00<andythenorth>pikka how do I mail wagon over-ride magic?
08:01<Pikka>well, it would end up the same colour as the locomotive, which is probably not what you want
08:01<andythenorth>no :)
08:02<andythenorth>could redefine mail as pax :P
08:02<Pikka>sounds like a great feature
08:02<andythenorth>this is an oversight in the yak-shaving livery UI
08:02<andythenorth>it was clearly made by a train nerd without a full plan
08:02<Pikka>mind you
08:02<Pikka>liveries vs station refitting?
08:03<Pikka>mailvan.mail -> mailvan.goods = repaint?
08:03<andythenorth>instant respray
08:03<Pikka>that's why in pineapple I don't have different vehicle appearances for different cargos
08:03<Pikka>no magic changing wagon bodies
08:05<andythenorth>nobody really gets salmonella from rice, right?
08:05<andythenorth>just a myth?
08:05*andythenorth eats the rice
08:08<andythenorth>this railcar gets instant rebuild at stations
08:08<andythenorth>we’ll live with that
08:22<Pikka>I demand you fix it immediately
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08:44*andythenorth failed to do it immediately
08:44<andythenorth>was hanging out washing
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08:45*andythenorth wtfs
08:45<andythenorth>grf separators
08:45<andythenorth>such a non-problem
08:46<@Alberth>let's just reduce the max # grfs to 5 or so
08:47<@Alberth>I always wondered how you can have separators tbh, as newgrfs are order-dependent?
08:47<andythenorth>why are we even letting this guy use the forums to so ineptly try and keyword SEO his own project?
08:48<andythenorth>it’s like he read a black hat SEO article from 1998
08:48<andythenorth>I’m surprised his sig doesn’t contain links coloured to the background colour
08:49<andythenorth>“one way to increase your page rank is to obtain links from other high-ranked sites covering similar subjects”
08:49<andythenorth>“include key phrases alongside your links to be indexed for those key phrases"
08:51*Pikka shrugs
08:51<Pikka>I got rid of the threads in the graphics forum and posted a request for immediate hanging in the mod forum
08:51<andythenorth>well yes
08:51<Pikka>that's about all I can do :)
08:51<keoz>Yeah. That guy ... That's just spam.
08:51*andythenorth goes back to finding bugs
08:52<keoz>Or trolling. Or both.
08:52<andythenorth>my railcar jumps off the rails in one \ direction
08:52<andythenorth>looks odd in stations
08:52<Pikka>sounds like a feature
08:52<andythenorth>good feature
08:52<Pikka>although shouldn't your railcar have the same offsets in both \ directions?
08:52<andythenorth>I would have thought so
08:52<andythenorth>the sprites are in same place
08:57<andythenorth>yeah, clearly I have no idea what I’m doing with offsets
08:57<andythenorth>someone else should do it :P
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09:11<keoz>Alberth: speaking about GRF's max limit: I've been thinking to increase that limit. Should I expect something trivial or lot of problems ? :)
09:12<@Alberth>the latter
09:12<andythenorth>there is the problem of ‘why?’
09:12<andythenorth>but that never stopped anyone
09:12<@Alberth>that too :)
09:12<keoz>Evidently :)
09:13<@Alberth>the technical problem of enlarging the limit is the size of network packets in MP
09:13<@Alberth>or rather, of the Internet in general :p
09:14<@Alberth>current limit is based on filling one packet with newgrfs
09:14<@Alberth>thus if you want more, you need to split it over multiple network packets
09:15<keoz>yeah. here it comes difficult when there is to deal with networking stuff
09:16<@Alberth>also, I don't understand why the current limit is not sufficient, but that is perhaps just me
09:16<keoz>Anyway. If I do it it wouldn't be for an eventual trunk inclusion, just for my personal and not-MP use.
09:16<@Alberth>find a random patch then
09:16<keoz>I'll maybee try and enjoy seeing my game crash endlessly
09:16<@Alberth>there are several around that just change the limit, and claim "it works"
09:17<keoz>Oh. Never heard about them.
09:17<keoz>I'll have a look
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09:18<keoz>as for the sufficient/not sufficient, well, when you can't put anything inside anymore, it is not sufficient anymore :p
09:19<Zuu>Sorry for OT, but Noooooo.... Rail buses (in Train Fever) has gone out of production in my game. Now I have to move around rail buses in a not fully connected network. :-)
09:20<@Alberth>Zuu: off topic? you're talking about a game and about transport :p
09:20<Zuu>I'm talking about the wrong game :-)
09:21<@Alberth>minor point :p
09:21<TrueBrain>wait, is Zuu implying this channel can be on topic?
09:21<@Alberth>hmm, we don't have a patch in the issue tracker, only a feature request :p
09:21<frosch123>TrueBrain: this topic is about the olympic games
09:22<Zuu>In that game frequency is king, so low capacity rail buses that go only a bit slower than a 3-4 times as expanisve train is relly nice.
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09:24<keoz>Alberth: you many votes ? :p
09:25<keoz>the feature request
09:28<@Alberth>oh, don't know, never look at that
09:28<keoz>I did. 2 :)
09:28<keoz>UDP packet. 1500 bytes or so, no ?
09:29<TrueBrain>bit less
09:29<TrueBrain>overhead and everything
09:29<andythenorth>no Train Fever mac
09:29<andythenorth>that means you get more newgrfs
09:29<andythenorth>TrueBrain can you do a banaramas rename?
09:30<andythenorth>also hi :)
09:30<TrueBrain>depends on my mood, I guess
09:30<andythenorth>how is your mood?
09:30<TrueBrain>not sre :P
09:30<TrueBrain>what do you need remnamed?
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09:31<andythenorth>“FISH 2” - “Squid Ate FISH!”
09:31<andythenorth>doesn’t matter if not in mood
09:31<andythenorth>will keep
09:31<TrueBrain>squid ...
09:35*andythenorth biab, chores
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09:36<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26786 trunk/src/network/network.cpp (2014-09-07 13:36:18 UTC)
09:36<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Also replay failed commands.
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09:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26787 trunk/src/saveload/order_sl.cpp (2014-09-07 13:52:20 UTC)
09:52<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r20547): Loading a game with order backups leaked Orders and left unreachable items in the pool.
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10:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26788 /trunk (3 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-07 14:21:16 UTC)
10:21<@DorpsGek>-Add: Desync replay option to skip/replay failed commands
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11:07<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r26789 /branches/1.4 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-07 15:07:22 UTC)
11:07<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
11:07<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Incorrect CFLAGS when enabling gprof profiling (r26737, r26735)
11:07<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Do not reset the last selected airport or layout, unless it is really necessary [FS#6083] (r26732)
11:07<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Use the normal search path to look for xdg-open at Unix [FS#6077] (r26724)
11:07<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
11:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r26790 /branches/1.4 (6 files in 5 dirs) (2014-09-07 15:09:05 UTC)
11:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
11:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Loading a game with order backups leaked Orders and left unreachable items in the pool (r26787)
11:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Buffer overrun in SQCompiler::Error (r26764)
11:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Desync due to not always properly restoring game state from the savegame (r26753)
11:09<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
11:16<frosch123>andythenorth: the 2-4-0-chaplin is driving backwards
11:16<frosch123>in rc-1, already known/fixed?
11:17<andythenorth>random direction
11:17<andythenorth>is it wrong compared to depot view?
11:17<frosch123>no, depot and map are consistent
11:18<frosch123>purchase list is forward :)
11:18<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE
11:19<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26791 /branches/1.4/src/lang (23 files) (2014-09-07 15:18:58 UTC)
11:19<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Backport from trunk: language updates
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11:25<|xk05|>there needs to be an easier solution to the goofy problem of having an airport that is now too busy to conveniently upgrade
11:26<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26792 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2014-09-07 15:25:54 UTC)
11:26<@DorpsGek>-Fix: TC_NO_SHADE did not work for 32bpp text rendering.
11:26<@Alberth>but you have "close airport"
11:26<|xk05|>what does that do?
11:26<@Alberth>other than that, yes a better way would be useful
11:26<@Alberth>it closes the airport? :)
11:27<@Alberth>airport gets skipped in the order lists, I think
11:27<frosch123>it unbusyfies an airport :)
11:27<|xk05|>ah, but you still have the routing issues, though, right?
11:27<|xk05|>ill try it
11:27<@Alberth>what routing issues?
11:28<@Alberth>planes just skip the order and go to the next airport on their list
11:28<@Alberth>not sure what they do when they have only 2 airports, they probably stay in the hangar or so
11:28<|xk05|>so if you rebuild a larger airport, they return?
11:29<@Alberth>if you 'unclose' the airport :)
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11:29<|xk05|>oh, i see what it did
11:29<|xk05|>everything just stayed in the pattern above the site
11:30<|xk05|>so 'close airport' is addressing that specific issue, ok, cool
11:30<@Alberth>not really cool, imho, but it's the best we have currently
11:30<@Alberth>or rather, least worse :p
11:31<|xk05|>naturally, i cannot build a hub yet, so i can just chalk that one up to a learning experience :p
11:31<andythenorth>I thought close airports was quite good?
11:31<andythenorth>did I miss something? o_O
11:32<frosch123>some drama
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11:35<@Alberth>|xk05|: you may also make enough room in advance, so the time to swap airports is as small as possible
11:36<@Alberth>please do make sure, an AI doesn't use your empty space to dump its own airport, as happened to me once :p
11:36<|xk05|>so, if the aircraft are going to just stay in the pattern above the site, your upgrade better /be/ an upgrade, or you've only stacked /more/ planes at once, i can see some problems with that if your not adding runways
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11:37<@Alberth>I usually send planes already circling above the airport to their next destination, to clear the sky somewhat
11:37<|xk05|>Alberth, thats a good idea
11:38<|xk05|>in 2 years i can upgrade to hubs, so, if i just have to expand, i can branch until then
11:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26793 /branches/1.4 ( src/gfx.cpp) (2014-09-07 15:41:03 UTC)
11:41<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Backport from trunk:
11:41<@DorpsGek>- Fix: TC_NO_SHADE did not work for 32bpp text rendering (r26792)
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11:45*andythenorth considers splitting oil tank wagon and tank wagon in Iron Horse
11:45<andythenorth>or foodstuffs tanker
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11:51<|xk05|>have you seen a multiplayer server with fire engines?
11:53<|xk05|>i found the eyecandy vehicles newgrf, but i havent found it in multiplyer, yet. the fire trucks, ambulances and cop cars are fun :)
11:54<APTX> what did openttd just do?
11:55<APTX>apart from mesing up the terminal...
11:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26794 /branches/1.4 (7 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-07 15:56:49 UTC)
11:56<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Update documentation
11:57<andythenorth>meh no pikka
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11:58<@Alberth>APTX: I'd suspect llvm more than openttd, tbh :)
11:58<APTX>Alberth: so I have the llvm source in disk
11:58<APTX>why would that affect openttd?
11:58<andythenorth>base set has oil tanker and water tanker
11:58<APTX>*on disk
11:58<andythenorth>ok so there are a few reasons I want to split tankers
11:58<@Alberth>if it fails to compile openttd or iconv properly, anything can happen
11:59<andythenorth>would you know what a ‘foodstuffs tanker’ was?
11:59<APTX>Alberth: does openttd just read random files?
11:59<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26795 /tags/1.4.3-RC1 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-07 15:59:22 UTC)
11:59<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.4.3-RC1
11:59<@Alberth>not that I am aware of
11:59<Rubidium>APTX: no, just those mentioned in readme.cfg
12:00<Rubidium>though a ls in /home/aptx/projects/llvm-3.5/llvm/tools/baseset/ will probably mess up your console as well
12:00<APTX>that doesn't even exist
12:01<@Alberth>I mean that the c++ compiler may generate wrong code, which works incorrectly on some case that happens to exist in the program or in one of its libraries
12:01<APTX>I'm not using llvm to build openttd
12:02<Rubidium>APTX: try openttd -d9 and paste that output
12:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26796 trunk/src/script/squirrel.cpp (2014-09-07 16:03:02 UTC)
12:03<@DorpsGek>-Fix: reading of high byte of "ASCII" files yielded a negative int8, then casted to an uint32 which caused the Squirrel lexer to bail out. Regardless... the file isn't actually ASCII, but that's beyond the point for now
12:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26797 trunk/src/script/squirrel.cpp (2014-09-07 16:03:41 UTC)
12:03<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: rewrite the UTF8 reading code to make use of already existing functions instead of partially trying to implemented them
12:05<APTX>Rubidium: it started reading tar files, can't really post the logs
12:06<Rubidium>though the last hundred lines before that errors might be enough
12:06<Rubidium>... to figure out where it tries to get that path name from
12:07<frosch123>APTX: with "paste" Rubidium meant ""
12:08<APTX>that's a lot of logs
12:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r26798 /trunk/src (autoreplace_gui.cpp build_vehicle_gui.cpp) (2014-09-07 16:09:48 UTC)
12:09<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Code style fixes.
12:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r26799 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-09-07 16:10:27 UTC)
12:10<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Export vehicle sorting data and functions.
12:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r26800 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-07 16:11:14 UTC)
12:11<@DorpsGek>-Feature[FS#1640]: Vehicle sorting in autoreplace GUI.
12:11<frosch123>he, the weather is not that bad... why so many commits? :p
12:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r26801 /trunk/src (autoreplace_gui.cpp lang/english.txt) (2014-09-07 16:11:58 UTC)
12:12<@DorpsGek>-Add: Labels above the lists in the autoreplace GUI.
12:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r26802 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-07 16:12:58 UTC)
12:13<@DorpsGek>-Add: Command to set visibility of an engine for a company (based on patch by Juanjo).
12:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r26803 /trunk/src (build_vehicle_gui.cpp rail.h) (2014-09-07 16:13:29 UTC)
12:13<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Document some fields in the build vehicle gui, and the rail definition struct.
12:13<APTX>Rubidium: it doesn't happen again
12:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r26804 /trunk/src (6 files in 5 dirs) (2014-09-07 16:14:06 UTC)
12:14<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Allow hiding of non-interesting engines in the build vehicle GUI.
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12:14<Rubidium>frosch123: critical mass
12:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r26805 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-07 16:14:38 UTC)
12:14<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Allow hiding of non-interesting engines in the autoreplace GUI.
12:15<@Alberth>sorry, should have kept them for another day :p
12:15<Rubidium>you generally need at least two people (somewhat) active to get commits flowing (reviews and the likes), so whatever is saved until critical mass is reached
12:16<Rubidium>also, if critical mass isn't reached the channel is boring so you do other things, making it hard to reach the critical mass
12:18<APTX>Rubidium: why does openttd look for tars?
12:18<@Alberth>somewhat, although I need much more time than a single weekend to write such a patch queue
12:18<@Alberth>APTX: it's our container storage format
12:19<Rubidium>APTX: because that's the way content can be easily packaged, and thus the way content from bananas and such is distributed
12:19<APTX>but why does it look through all of home?
12:19<Rubidium>check readme.txt
12:20<Rubidium>it tells you where it looks for stuff
12:20<APTX>where's that usually installed?
12:20<Rubidium>in the installation folder
12:23<APTX>I guess it wasn't packaged...
12:30<APTX>right, the issue doesn't happen anymore, though I'd love to know why it did happen in the first place
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12:33<APTX>thanks for the help
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12:36<andythenorth>would you expect a Chemical Tanker to refit oil?
12:36<andythenorth>or an Oil Tanker to refit chemicals?
12:36*andythenorth ponders
12:37<FLHerne>Oil is a (mix of) chemical(s) :P
12:38*FLHerne thinks chemical-free products should be priced much higher, because absolute vacuums are quite tricky to obtain
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12:45<@Alberth>I wouldn't refit probably, but that may be just me
12:48<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.4.2, 1.4.3-RC1
12:48-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.4.2, 1.4.3-RC1 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
13:03*Rubidium ponders the irony of CC-BY-ND for
13:08<andythenorth>‘edibles tanker'
13:08<andythenorth>refits milk, alcohol, water
13:09<@Alberth>don't confuse the latter two :p
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13:18<@Alberth>alcohol and water :)
13:18<@Alberth>edibles would be ok to me
13:19<@Alberth>so much nicer than steel tanker wagons!
13:20<@Alberth>now just hope they don't carry beer, or they may disappear with V nearby
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13:43<@Alberth>keoz: you don't support opengfx+industries?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26806 /trunk/src/lang (esperanto.txt gaelic.txt) (2014-09-07 17:45:44 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>esperanto - 1 changes by Ryton
13:45<@DorpsGek>gaelic - 49 changes by GunChleoc
13:49<keoz>Alberth: at least, not for now. I've been considering it but I need to better understand how it works.
13:49<keoz>If I'm not wrong, the problem with opengfx is that you have a variable number of cargos depending on settings.
13:49<@Alberth>removed the newgrf
13:50<@Alberth>that's entirely possible
13:50<@Alberth>I don't know such details :)
13:50<keoz>That's not necessarily a problem but I need to figure out a way to handle the case :)
13:51<andythenorth>an edibles tank car is quite different to an edible tank car :P
13:55<andythenorth>FIRS supply stockpiles?
13:55<andythenorth>the wheel turns
13:56*andythenorth rejects that one
13:59<|xk05|>beer. trucks.
14:00<|xk05|>no. easier to just change the graphics, right? now all food trucks will be beer trucks. because beer is food.
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14:11<OpenGame>Hi. Can an admin activate my acc pls? I've got no email to activate my account.
14:12<frosch123>what account? where?
14:12<OpenGame>My central user management account for openttd
14:12<OpenGame>same name as here
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14:21<andythenorth>I don’t get it
14:21<andythenorth>why do I have to change FIRS Supplies, again? :(
14:24<@Alberth>you don't, imho
14:24<keoz>FIRS is fine as it is.
14:25<keoz>(well, still better with the some hacks I did to it :-) )
14:25<@Alberth>the step from 2x to 4x is nasty, but in a good way, I think now
14:26<@Alberth>my biggest problem is more that once it is running, you don't need to look after it much, industries stay as they are, supplies continue to work
14:26<keoz>well that was the intent, no ? :p
14:26<@Alberth>if it was, then it works :p
14:27<keoz>For myself, I reenabled all industries closure
14:27<keoz>I like it more seing the map changing over time
14:27<keoz>and, additional feature: opening/closure of farms are perfect to reduce the problem of to many trees :-)
14:28<@Alberth>you can set the tree growth algorithm in the generate map window, you know ;)
14:28<keoz>well you have not that many choices
14:29<@Alberth>'none' works quite good :p
14:29<keoz>No, something else I was thinking to is a patch for stopping industries growth. I already did it for personal use, its quite a trivial change and in trunk it could be optional. What would you think about that ?
14:30<@Alberth>I have 'improved' currently, some trees in temperate looks good
14:31<@Alberth>I like change in production, as it means I have to adjust my network to copy with the extra trains
14:31<keoz>stopping industries growth doesn't mean stopping closure/opening
14:31<@Alberth>I know
14:32<keoz>Ok, sorry :-)
14:32<keoz>Yes, I read you to fast.
14:32<@Alberth>closing well-serviced industries would be a good way to cause major havoc in a network :)
14:33<keoz>that's pervers :p
14:33<@Alberth>industry chains go down :D
14:33<keoz>with complex chains as in FIRS, that'd be the kind of think where I say "Oh hell, better go out drink a bear"
14:34<@Alberth>it does mean you should spread out to reduce your risks
14:34<@Alberth>I am very happy with the basic climates, they are sufficiently complicated to me
14:35<andythenorth>I find them much more fun
14:35<keoz>Don't play with it since years :p
14:35<andythenorth>although I like Heart of Darkness best
14:36<keoz>I love FIRS. Definetely. In its most complex flavour :p
14:36<keoz>andythenorth: the good news, is that RCG supports Hearth of Darkness now :p
14:36<andythenorth>RCG o_O ?
14:36<andythenorth>City Growth?
14:37<keoz>the script I did to change completely city growth based on cargo deliveries
14:38<andythenorth>black tank wagons, or company colour?
14:39<keoz>Both, obviously.
14:47<andythenorth>determined how? o_O
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14:58<keoz>Na I was joking andythenorth. Though it could still be possible. In pikka's UKRS2, the settings allow choosing between 2CC or original colors.
14:58<@Alberth>keoz: a rewording suggestion
14:58<@Alberth>also, perhaps explain in a story book what each category is?
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15:00<@Alberth>and I getloads of debug messages: dbg: [script] french:1: warning: STR_TOWNBOX_0: Param idx #0 'STRING' doesn't match with template command 'STRING3' also for other STR_TOWNBOX strings
15:00<keoz>Alberth: thanks for the suggestions. I'll have a look on it.
15:01<keoz>mmh strange about those messages. I had them once but I thought it came from another script. Then they disappeared oO
15:01<keoz>you're using the forums' topic -r109 I suppose ?
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15:02<keoz>Ok. All of this in the TODO list :)
15:03<keoz>Alberth: as about the storybook, in the last revisions I implemented a storybook page about categories. You don't have it ?
15:04<@Alberth>story book button is greyed out
15:04<keoz>That's not normal :/
15:05<@Alberth> to give you an impression of the changes
15:06<@Alberth>using default industries
15:07<keoz>Yeah I like better the first line as it
15:07<@Alberth>also when I start a new game, I have no story book, so it's not in reloading a game
15:07<keoz>for the other ones, i'll keep the "*"
15:07<keoz>yes that's normal. The SB is only built on map generation
15:08<keoz>and when reinitializing data
15:09<keoz>Once more: we agree that you're using the -r109 which I posted on the forum ?
15:09<keoz>OTTD version ? trunk ?
15:10<@Alberth>sorry if that was not clear
15:10<keoz>I was pretty sure but wanted to be completely :)
15:10<keoz>may I get a savegame ?
15:10<keoz>(on the forum topic, eventually)
15:10<@Alberth>trunk 21667:624bb55eac8e, or svn r26805
15:11<keoz>that's extremely old :p
15:11<frosch123>it's outdated for 90 minutes or so
15:12<keoz>Mmh. There were a lot of squirrel changes today. But I updated my trunk, so I don't think it comes from there.
15:13<OpenGame>Hi. Can an admin activate my central user management system account please? I've got no email to activate my account.
15:13<@Alberth>21667 is the hg local revision number, not an svn number :)
15:13<keoz>Thanks. I'll have a look on this. Meanwhile you can either use the last stable (v4) or, if everything else works with the -r109, going on on this;
15:13<keoz>Was joking :)
15:14<frosch123>OpenGame: just try to register again
15:14<OpenGame>Won't work as the email server seems to be offline frosch123
15:14<frosch123>then wait till it is online again?
15:14<@Alberth>keoz: no problem, just having a quick go to get an idea what your script does
15:15<keoz>Alberth: Actually, the version I posted today should have been tested some more before public releasing, because there are really a huge lot of changes (the SB among). But since Rubidium made a really quick fix about a little bug in Squirrel, the GS was broken. Hence a fast release.
15:15<@Alberth>it doesn't have a goal right?
15:15<keoz>no goals
15:15<keoz>that's normal
15:16<@Alberth>some andy-s are hooked on goal-ish scripts :)
15:16<keoz>it's just really intended to remasterize city growth. Though I don't exclude to add some optional extra challenges, once the basic mechanism is correctly built.
15:16<@Alberth>in a sense you're copying the tropical behaviour to other climates
15:17<keoz>can be. Never played tropical :p
15:17<@Alberth>there you have to bring water and food to desert towns to grow
15:17<keoz>But what I wanted was a script were you also need to have a local functional industry for a city to growth
15:17<keoz>hence the impact of raw/transformed goods on growth
15:17<@Alberth>what and CS made all this effort to bring you 4 climates with different challenges in each :)
15:18<keoz>I'm terribly conservative in this respect. I always play same climate with same GRF's :p
15:18<@Alberth>you seem to be doing a better job at it than the tropical game
15:18<keoz>I try at least :p
15:19<@Alberth>I will probably not play your script much, I prefer focussing on industries rather than towns
15:20<@Alberth>but we'll see :)
15:21<keoz>Outch. There were still 20 commits since the pull I did this morning oO
15:22<keoz>k. updating once more :)
15:22<@Alberth>the newgrfs of that game should all be on bananas, but sometimes I get temporary versions of newgrfs. If you have trouble loading the game, just let me know
15:22<@Alberth>you didn't pay attention to the Dorpsgek spam with commits? :)
15:23<keoz>Yes, I've seen it but I didn't think they were so much :)
15:23<@Alberth>some were in the 1.4 branch, so they don't count :p
15:24<keoz>oh, actually some commits "jump" 3/4 commit numbers. Didn't know that happens.
15:24<@Alberth>yeah, those are changes outside /trunk
15:25<@Alberth>today in /tags/1.4.<something> I think
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15:25<keoz>I thought revision numbers were branch specific
15:25<@Alberth>no, they are shared over the entire repository
15:25<keoz>Yes. thinking to, it's normal.
15:26<@Alberth>which is also probably the only way to keep sane if you work in lots of branches :)
15:26<keoz>I use heavily hg since I discovered it but never played with branches so far
15:26<@Alberth>I just make new hg clones instead of branching
15:27<keoz>same here. I even prefer have separated clone for working on patches
15:27<keoz>even if theorically I could queue them together
15:27<@Alberth>yep, I have 29 openttd clones currently :)
15:28<@Alberth>some are quite old :)
15:31<keoz>Mmh. When loading your game with an updated perfecly vanilla trunk; I have the storybook.
15:31<keoz>wtf ?
15:31<keoz>that means at least that the storybook is stored in the savegame
15:34<keoz>Well ok, I'll search into it. Thanks for reporting it and for the other suggestions, btw.
15:35<@Alberth>weird :(
15:36<keoz>I'll start fixing the STRING bug. Maybee the one solves the other ...
15:38<@Alberth>deleting the unpacked directory also didn't fix it, so it's not directory versus tarfile either
15:39<@Alberth>do you use hg for openttd as well?
15:40<keoz>I just tried with r26805
15:40<keoz>You play english ?
15:42<keoz>I'm suspecting some problem with the init phase, the storybook creation being done at an unallowed moment. I already had some issues with that. I thought it fixed but there's maybee still something wrong with it.
15:42<@Alberth>yes, I play english
15:45<keoz>No, it can't be that. If there was a unallowed creation of the SB, it wouldn't be in the savegame
15:46<keoz>Alberth: do you have the SuperLib v38 ?
15:47<Wolf01> aaah a pleasure for the eyes :D
15:47<keoz>Yes, you necessarily have, the game would complain without that.
15:48<frosch123>Wolf01: proper engines have 3 lights
15:48<@Alberth>looks like it
15:51<@Alberth>good night
15:51<keoz>What do you developers do when you can't reproduce a bug ? :p
15:52<frosch123>depends on the type of bug
15:52<keoz>g'night Alberth
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15:52<frosch123>if it is a crash, you already started off the wrong way :p
15:52<frosch123>you should have enabled core files in advance
15:53<keoz>na it's "just" a gamescript, in which there is a storybook: alberth is unable to see the SB while I see it in its savegame
15:53<frosch123>that is: you should make sure in advance, that whenever you may hit on a bug, you don't need to reproduct it
15:53<frosch123>just blame the user :)
15:54<keoz>I hoped for that answer :p
15:58<andythenorth>how do I explain kindly to aantano that he’s missing the point
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16:00<keoz>andythenorth: well, you actually did, no ? It would be useless to repeat it endlessly :)
16:01<keoz>you also can cut off the point by explaning him that he's free to hack it's FIRS version.
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16:06<Supercheese>Whoah, it's been a commit storm
16:06<frosch123>it's all the dutch's fault
16:07<andythenorth>@calc 1440/56
16:07<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 25.7142857143
16:07<andythenorth>such a crap suggestion, I don’t even know how to explain it again
16:07<andythenorth>he just posts the same long paragraphs again and again
16:07<andythenorth>a single Squid freighter could put an industry at max production for 2 year
16:08<andythenorth>years *
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16:11<andythenorth>isn’t the actual feature he wants ‘turn off news messages’ ?
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16:17<keoz>actually, that's the first thing I thought reading its first message. Who cares about some vehicles being deficitary ?
16:17<keoz>in any case, with wide cargodist distribution, vehicle profit become still less significant
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16:33<andythenorth>partial compiles ftw
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17:05<andythenorth>probly I shouldn’t release another Horse today
17:06<andythenorth>2 is enough
17:06<Pikka>so many horses
17:06<Pikka>when are we getting a stable? :D
17:07<andythenorth>let’s get two
17:07<andythenorth>I added another tanker
17:07<andythenorth>stole the idea from Pineapples
17:07<Pikka>a horsetanker?
17:07<andythenorth>horsetanker is good idea
17:07<andythenorth>but also Edibles Tanker
17:07<Pikka>ukrs had horsetankers
17:07<Pikka>"livestock" in milk tanks
17:07<andythenorth>can’t go wrong with a horsetanker
17:08<andythenorth>this one has alcohol, milk, water
17:08<Pikka>separate tankers for potables?
17:08<Pikka>realism gone mad
17:09<frosch123>is there an industry grf which adds horse milk?
17:09<frosch123>maybe some egyptian economy?
17:09<frosch123>quarries and pyramid construction places and such?
17:10<andythenorth>why are my engines showing up as pax refittable?
17:10<andythenorth>default cargo is probably PASS
17:10<andythenorth>how do I unset the default cargo? :(
17:11<frosch123>though i guess the stone/mummy ratio is hard to the deliveries
17:11<frosch123>andythenorth: do you do refitting?
17:11<frosch123>did you set the capacity property?
17:12<frosch123>or did you only do callbacks?
17:12<andythenorth>to be strict, why are my engines showing in the buy menu filter for pax?
17:12<andythenorth>would be more accurate
17:12<Pikka>link to code for the lazy, please
17:12<frosch123>most likely you did not set the capacity property, resp. set it to a non-zero value
17:12<andythenorth>would you like an nml or nfo flavour?
17:13<frosch123>which would be required if the engines were refittable or something
17:13<Pikka>either, but I found it :)
17:14<andythenorth>so much faff with default capacities, default cargos, refit masks
17:14-!-DabuYu [DabuYu@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:14<andythenorth>let’s see what the nfo says
17:15<Wolf01>'night all
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17:15<andythenorth>nfo never lies
17:16<Pikka>is chaplin a loco
17:17<Pikka>Name: chaplin_switch_cargo_capacity what's this in aid of?
17:17<andythenorth>won’t do anything on a loco
17:17<andythenorth>it’s just templated code
17:17<Pikka>it might do *something*
17:18<frosch123>don't look at the switches, the issue is with properties
17:18<andythenorth>happily returns our old friend wx8000 in all case
17:18<andythenorth>always nice to see wx8000 here
17:19<Pikka>why does it set 1D four times?
17:19<andythenorth>dunno yet
17:19<andythenorth>but one or more of the articulated parts will have pax set for default
17:19<andythenorth>99% certain guess
17:19<andythenorth>it quite likes 1D eh?
17:19<andythenorth>that’s nmlc’s doing
17:19<frosch123>settings the cargotype is not the issue
17:20<frosch123>every vehicle has a cargo type
17:20<frosch123>it's the capacity property that matters
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17:20<Pikka>you're not making an articulated vehicle out of all the same ID?
17:20<andythenorth>it’s not the cargo type then :P
17:21<frosch123>Pikka: it's easier to not use the same id
17:21<andythenorth>there we go
17:21<andythenorth>cargo capacity 1
17:21<andythenorth>on the lead slice
17:21<frosch123>then you can zero all the properties for the purchase list and such
17:21<andythenorth>there is a reason for that 1
17:21<andythenorth>but I forget what it is
17:21<frosch123>andythenorth: are you sure, you didn't want top make them refittable? :)
17:22<frosch123>if you use cargo subtype for refitting, you need to set it to 1
17:22<andythenorth>no subtypes
17:22<frosch123>you likely copied it from bandit or heqs
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17:23<andythenorth>I don’t know what bug I’d introduce by changing it :P
17:23<Pikka>only one way to find out :D
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17:23<andythenorth>“# provide default capacity (set as property) so lead vehicle has same refittability as trailing slices, this prevents an issue with auto-refit”
17:23<andythenorth>looks revealing
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17:24<frosch123>sounds road-vehicle-ish :)
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17:25<andythenorth>nah road vehicles don’t have all this 3-part silliness
17:25<andythenorth>it’s intended for wagons, I either need to special case it for engines, or ignore the bug
17:25<Pikka>oh, you do those 3 part wagons
17:26<Pikka>btw, I was reminded recently that using 3-part wagons tripled the rolling/air resistance for trains, do you counter that effect in hoss? ;) or do you not care since it affects all your vehicles equally?
17:27<Pikka>it was an issue with the compartment coach in UKRS2 because the extra drag was quite noticable with the low-powered 19th c locos
17:27<Joakim>Is there any specific version numbering system for OpenTTD? Or is that just incrementet after each release? (0.release version)
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17:28<andythenorth>think I ignored air drag
17:28<andythenorth>let’s see
17:29<andythenorth>yeah can’t see that handled anywhere
17:29<andythenorth>probably counters the stupidly high speeds in IH
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17:30<@planetmaker> <-- does that help, Joakim ?
17:30<@planetmaker>not sure what kind of reply you expect
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17:31<frosch123> <- or that
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17:31<andythenorth>will it be releasing?
17:31<andythenorth>bed time
17:32*Pikka -> uni
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17:36<@planetmaker>frosch123, I wonder whether the "MiniIN" information should go from that page :)
17:36<@planetmaker>it's so old even I don't remember that :P
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17:37<frosch123>possibly, but i won't do it. starting editing likely results in rewriting or deleting it completely
17:37<frosch123>which is the case for all wiki pages, so i avoid them
17:37<frosch123>that seems to be the case for wikis in general
17:37<frosch123>if you know stuff, then they are terrible wrong
17:38<frosch123>but if you do not know stuff, they help you nevertheless :)
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17:42<Joakim>planetmaker: Yeah, a bit! But how is it decided to go from like 1.3.3 to 1.4.0?
17:44<frosch123>there are major versions 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 and such
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17:44<frosch123>currently 1.5 is developed in parallel
17:44<frosch123>1.4.3 is a maintenance release for 1.4, independent of ongoing work for 1.5
17:46<Joakim>i see, thanks! So after for example 1.3.3, and no new stuff is going in, the next step is to release the next stable version witch is 1.4?
17:46<frosch123>so, there is no such change as 1.3.3->1.4.0
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17:46<frosch123>there was 1.3.0 at some point, and from there went 1.4.0 and 1.3.1 independent in parallel
17:47<frosch123>at some point 1.3.x stops, and only 1.4 is done
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17:48<frosch123>but e.g. 1.1.5 has been released after there has already been a beta for 1.2
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17:49<frosch123> <- 1.1.5 on 2012-01-14, <- 1.2.0-beta1 on 2011-12-24
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17:49<frosch123>they have nothing to do with each other :)
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17:50<Joakim>But i assume that 1.1.5 had some fixes for 1.1.x, and the fixes was merged into 1.2?
17:51-!-heffer [] has joined #openttd
17:51<frosch123>sure, but even though 1.1.5 was released after 1.2-beta1, it was a step backwards from a feature point of view
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17:53<Joakim>I see, thanks! Im comparing a few open source projects for a school project, thought it would be fun to compare the different ways to do versioning :)
17:53<frosch123>almost all software uses 3 numbers: x.y.z
17:54<frosch123>z is for maintenance, y for new versions, x for non-technical reasons like marketing
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19:03<Eddi|zuHause>uhm i have no idea wtf happened. i came home, computer was on a hung boot prompt, and any attempt of rebooting detected zero hard drives...
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>i now shuffled around some disks to the secondary sata controller, and suddenly everything is back, even the ones on the primary controller
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20:29<OpenGame>Is an admin online?
20:33-!-theholyduck [~theholydu@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:33<Sylf>Admin in what sense?
20:34<Sylf>Or admin of what resource?
20:34<OpenGame>someone who can activate central user management system accounts on the Openttd page
20:35<Sylf>ah. You'll probably have to wait for a few hours - for European morning or later.
20:35<OpenGame>there is no way to request a second email right?
20:36<Sylf>I don't know
20:37<OpenGame>I will try tomorrow again, thanks for trying to help
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21:56<luizrpgluiz>hi devs :)
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21:57<OdinYggd>Is there a way to dry out lakes? I'm on a map right now that has a lot of sea level areas that are full of water but cut off from the main ocean. Raising them to grade would be costly, but if I could dry them as-is I could use them as they are
21:59<luizrpgluiz>why not put apartments in openttd?
21:59<luizrpgluiz>and also does not put factories?
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22:02<OdinYggd>Factories already exist though. They convert steel livestock or grain to goods
22:02<OdinYggd>Though factories can be established in city blocks, and indeed many cities grew up around a large factory, they tend to keep to themselves because people don't like the smoke and noise.
22:02<luizrpgluiz>and apartments?
22:03<OdinYggd>Dunno. I would imagine that most of your city high rises are a mix of offices and apartments
22:03<OdinYggd>they just aren't tagged as such
22:05<luizrpgluiz>but it would be possible to put apartments for rent by each company? such as opening a real estate
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23:31<Sylf>this discussion feels and smells like the continuation of the tt-forums posts...
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23:33<Sylf>OdinYggd, there is no inexpensive way of drying the lakes. You either raise the lake area's land level, or use the demolish tool on the entire lake area.
23:34<OdinYggd>I didn't know the bomb tool could do it
23:34<OdinYggd>That in itself is good to know
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 08 00:00:32 2014