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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-09-08

---Logopened Mon Sep 08 00:00:32 2014
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02:51<andythenorth>is the livery UI for mail wagons driven by cargo prop 15?
02:51*andythenorth is looking for reasons why FIRS mail is freight, and default mail is not
02:53<@planetmaker>mail is always fright
02:53<@planetmaker>moin andythenorth :)
02:54<andythenorth>FIRS causes mail cars to use freight livery
02:54<andythenorth>whereas default industries do not
02:54<@planetmaker>what else would they use? Passengers? Would sound wrong
02:55<andythenorth>yes, pax
02:55<@planetmaker>but... my letters don't have legs?
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02:56<andythenorth>it’s not so much logic as consistency
02:56<andythenorth>mail is redefined from default for no good reason
02:56<andythenorth>which causes vehicle set bugs
02:56<@planetmaker>:) Then don't re-define it
02:57<@planetmaker>would make a good patch, only code removal without feature loss :)
02:57<andythenorth>I don’t know which prop is doing it ;)
02:57<andythenorth>I thought maybe is_freight (prop 15)
02:58<@planetmaker>Honestly, I'm not sure there is a way to force pax livery for non-pax cargoes
02:58<@planetmaker>probably driven by cc_passengers class
02:58<@planetmaker>but I didn't look up openttd code
02:58*andythenorth wonders if something is hard-coded in ottd code
02:58<andythenorth>by cargo bit or such
02:58<@planetmaker>pax / non-pax surely is
03:00<@planetmaker>yeah...
03:00*andythenorth opens ottd src
03:02<andythenorth>looks like it uses is_freight
03:02<andythenorth>hmm
03:04<@planetmaker> if (!CargoSpec::Get(cargo_type)->is_freight) {
03:04<@planetmaker>yeah
03:05<@planetmaker>which is prop. 0x15
03:05<@planetmaker> case 0x15: // Freight status
03:05<@planetmaker> cs->is_freight = (buf->ReadByte() != 0);
03:12*andythenorth fixes FIRS
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03:47<andythenorth>another day, another horse
03:51<@planetmaker>:)
03:53<andythenorth>train sets are quite fun
03:53<andythenorth>the sprites are mostly symmetrical
03:54<andythenorth>and the consists can be adjusted by player, so stats on each vehicle aren’t so hard to figure out
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04:02<OpenGame>Is an admin online who can activate my Webtranslator account? The username is same as here. I got no email so I wasn't able to complete the registration.
04:11*Xaroth|Work points at planetmaker
04:11*Xaroth|Work runs
04:11<OpenGame>thanks Xaroth|Work
04:11<Xaroth|Work>he might be afk though
04:12<Xaroth|Work>but that's the last admin-like person i've seen talk in the last few hours
04:12<OpenGame>I hope he doesn't run away too ;)
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04:19*planetmaker grabs coffee mug and aims at Xaroth_
04:19*planetmaker reconsiders. Waste of good coffee
04:22<@planetmaker>OpenGame, what language do you apply for?
04:22<Xaroth|Work>you're aiming at the wrong one too
04:22<@planetmaker>Xaroth|Work, don't dare to say you're innocent. Thus can't be wrong ;)
04:23<Xaroth|Work>There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
04:23<OpenGame>planetmaker German
04:23<@planetmaker>OpenGame, and did you write an application e-mail to the translator e-mail address? if so: when?
04:24<Xaroth|Work>and in case you understood that reference: blood for the blood god!
04:24<OpenGame>no I didn't - I just saw it on the main page and clicked on the lovely heart ;)
04:25<@planetmaker>well, http://translator.openttd.org/en/faq usually explains that applying there via e-mail is the usual behaviour. anyhow, don't worry now
04:26<@planetmaker>actually... worry now. I don't see any account with your nick registered with OpenTTD services
04:28<OpenGame>if I try to register again with same name it tells me there is an acc with that name already
04:28<@planetmaker>you mean 'OpenGame'?
04:28<OpenGame>yes
04:29<@planetmaker>maybe you had an account like 5+ years ago and didn't migrate it to our single-sign-on back then?
04:29<OpenGame>I signed up yesterday for first time :P
04:29<OpenGame>'An account with that username already exists.'
04:30<@planetmaker>well, then maybe someone else did in ye ol' days. Those nicks are taken but inaccessible
04:31<OpenGame>I have been able to sign up successfully - I think the email server was just down so I got no email.
04:33<OpenGame>or the emailserver IP is blacklisted
04:34<@planetmaker>well, there is no user 'OpenGame' in our database which I see.
04:35<__ln__>emails get queued for later delivery if some server is down in between
04:35<@planetmaker>^ that also
04:38<OpenGame>Weird... I will try a new name
04:39<@planetmaker>do you use some weired e-mail address which is hosted microsoft or one of its 'services'? They sometimes act up and fail to provide proper e-mail services
04:39<OpenGame>I just wanted to translate the last 25 missing strings for the German language
04:39<OpenGame>nope a stable one
04:40<@planetmaker>heieiei. commits in the weekend brought many new strings it seems :)
04:40<__ln__>OpenGame: will you be using google translate?
04:40<OpenGame>lol if I try to sign up and press the Go to next step button I see no error now but it won't go on
04:40<OpenGame>__ln__ I hope you are kidding. I'm a native speaker.
04:41<__ln__>i also hope i'm kidding, but one can never know for sure
04:42<@planetmaker>__ln__, I've rarely seen that with OpenTTD translations
04:44<OpenGame>" An account with that email already exists." now
04:45<@planetmaker>:) so... which e-mail (you can message in private as to not catch spam on it)?
04:46<@planetmaker>hm... strange... I don't find that either :S
04:46<@planetmaker>I wonder whether there's a separate DB for those where sign-up is not yet finished
04:46<@planetmaker>and if so: where :D
04:46<OpenGame>maybe you can't see accounts which aren't active?
04:46<OpenGame>yeah
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04:54<OpenGame>any plans now planetmaker? :P
04:56<@planetmaker>I will check with our sysadmin whether I miss anything. But there's nothing else what I can do now
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04:57<@planetmaker>you could sign-up also at the #openttdcoop DevZone and start translating NewGRFs for now :)
04:58<OpenGame>the account there is for everything right? not that I just signed up for a submodule but I try to log in on the main one
04:59<@planetmaker>dunno... where did you sign-up?
05:00<OpenGame>http://account.openttd.org/en/signup
05:00<@planetmaker>there's tt-forums.net (our forums), there's openttd.org (our main site) and there's the #openttdcoop DevZone (3rd-party projects). Those three are different.
05:00<@planetmaker>The one you used is for openttd translations, bug reports and wiki indeed
05:00<@planetmaker>so that's the right one for the purpose
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05:03<@planetmaker>hm
05:03<OpenGame>okay then I have to wait I think planetmaker
05:03<OpenGame>can I see the missing strings without sign in?
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05:05<@planetmaker>I don't think via web translator
05:05<@planetmaker>but you can check the commits from the weekend
05:06<@planetmaker>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/shortlog
05:07<@planetmaker>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/log/ef1b203e2572/src/lang/english.txt rather. Newest two commits in that list
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05:08<@planetmaker>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/diff/ef1b203e2572/src/lang/english.txt and http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/diff/dfdbef31916f/src/lang/english.txt
05:08<OpenGame>okay thanks
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05:10<@planetmaker>make sure translations are consistent with existing strings. But web translator usually has some suggestions about related ones
05:10<@planetmaker>there's also discussion threads about German translations in both, tt-forums as well as the German tt-ms forums. both threads are not currently active, but well :)
05:11<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=39481 and I don't know / find now the thread in tt-ms.de
05:13<OpenGame>np :)
05:17<@planetmaker>https://translator.openttdcoop.org/projects <-- might be interesting for you, too :D
05:18<OpenGame>hm yeah
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06:02<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> what else would they use? Passengers? Would sound wrong <-- i suppose the idea is that mixed passenger/mail trains all use the same livery
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06:15<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, sure :)
06:23<b_jonas>what do valuables (on continental) use?
06:24<b_jonas>you could rename the livery from "passenger" to "two-way cargo" which would include passengers, mail, and valuables
06:26<@planetmaker>err-no-context. err-no-parse
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose valuables should be treated like mail
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>wrt the livery
06:37<@planetmaker>probably
06:38<__ln__>happy International Literacy Day to those who can read
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09:00<LSky`>planetmaker, did the logs end up helping you guys with finding the desync issue?
09:00<@planetmaker>LSky`, yes, only they made it possible
09:01<LSky`>if there happens to be a similar issue, dont hesistate to request the logs again
09:02<@planetmaker>I will. count on it :)
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09:02<@planetmaker>on the other hand: if you see a desync on server1/3, don't hesitate to start desync logging in the same manner :)
09:03<LSky`>definitely
09:05<@planetmaker>it's sufficient to run the desync logging until the 1st desync occured. Thus turning it off afterwards might help reduce some load on the servers :)
09:06<@planetmaker>it can be quite a strain on it :)
09:06<@planetmaker>thus when you see one: turn on desync debugging. save game, load that very savegame, continue to play and hope it desyncs soon enough :P
09:07<@planetmaker>it kills all company passwords, though. Thus what I'd do: set some passwords and move users manually back to their company
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09:14<@peter1138>trick: flag whether a company had a password in the save game
09:15<@peter1138>should be possible, saves messing with hashes or shit
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10:37<__ln__>http://www.dw.de/germany-wont-tolerate-sharia-police/a-17906086
10:38<@planetmaker>^ I find that actually scary. Scary to not tolerate it.
10:40<__ln__>i don't think starting one's own police force (and calling it police) is tolerated in many western countries.
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>it's actually not illegal to call yourself "police", you just can't claim any rights that a normal police has.
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10:48<Eddi|zuHause>there was a guy who was prosecuted because he sold t-shirts which say "police", but he got cleared because the name "police" is not protected
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10:49<@planetmaker>it's not even a German word. So...
10:49<@planetmaker>and it cannot be illegal to dress-up alike and try to talk to people in town...
10:49<@planetmaker>if people come and make up cases why that is illegal and succeed. Then it gets scary
10:50<Pikka>planetmaker, impersonating a police officer isn't illegal in germany?
10:50<@planetmaker>Pikka, it is. But those people didn't and don't
10:50<@planetmaker>police is called Polizei in German. But they just had red jackets with 'sharia police'
10:50*Pikka isn't sure what you meant by "dress-up alike"
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10:51<@planetmaker>http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/scharia-polizei-in-wuppertal-salafisten-als-sharia-police-in-nrw-a-990152.html vs. https://www.google.com/search?q=polizei+uniform
10:52<Pikka>I would expect someone wearing a uniform with the word "police" on it would have some kind of government authority
10:52<Pikka>even if it's not a german word
10:52<@planetmaker>I would not. English is no official language here
10:52<Pikka>that said, the article does make it sound like it was a one-off attention seeking stunt and the whole issue is a beat-up :)
10:53<@planetmaker>it does. But even if they go there every week or day. What grounds is there to fobid anyone to do that really? They don't look remotely like police
10:54<@planetmaker>It's different if they started to bully anyone. Then it's time to act
10:54<@planetmaker>but calling for anti-sharia-police laws like was already heard... that's just plain stupid :)
10:55<@planetmaker>alas, we live in times of hysteria
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11:32<keoz>hello, world
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11:39<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> I would not. English is no official language here <-- that doesn't actually matter. it wouldn't change anything if the shirts were in german.
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: "impersonating a police officer" is not "dressing up as police", it's demanding actions that only an official policeman can demand (like searching people or using violence)
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13:43<acb5649>hello, I’m new to building OTTD from source. I keep getting an error that the compiler cannot find “table/strings.h”. I checked this folder, it does not exist. How can I get “strings.h”? I’m using Xcode.
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13:45<Rubidium>acb5649: sounds like xcode's conversion of our makefile failed
13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26807 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2014-09-08 17:46:46 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:47<@DorpsGek>catalan - 18 changes by juanjo
13:47<@DorpsGek>croatian - 29 changes by VoyagerOne
13:47<@DorpsGek>english_US - 29 changes by Supercheese
13:47<@DorpsGek>italian - 29 changes by lorenzodv
13:47<@DorpsGek>russian - 29 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:47<@DorpsGek>spanish - 12 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
13:48<acb5649>Interesting, that would also explain some other bugs then. Where should I place the makefile for optimal detection?
13:49<Rubidium>no idea, I don't use xcode or OS X
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13:56<acb5649>looks like I wasn’t even including a makefile
14:01<+glx>makefile is auto generated by configure, I don't know how xcode handles that
14:01<acb5649>not well, that’s for sure
14:13<acb5649>I’m trying to resurrect ZodTTD’s iPad port, but there were no detailed instructions on how to actually compile everything.
14:16<Rubidium>you are aware that the port can't be on itunes?
14:18<Rubidium>primarily because Apple rejects GPL applications because they aren't compatible with their terms of service
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14:21<acb5649>well yeah, my intention was to put a version on the Cydia, the jailbrake app store.
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14:28<Wolf01>hi hi
14:30<@Alberth>moin
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14:34<Julian_>Hi, can someone maybe help me with the OpenTTDLib query webpage ? I dont get it to run. Just get a blank white webpage if i open the example with my query ips.
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14:47<George>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlinersset/wiki/The_Team/diff?utf8=%E2%9C%93&version=12&version_from=7&commit=%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%8C+%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B8%D1%8F
14:48<George>Internal error
14:48<George>
14:48<George>An error occurred on the page you were trying to access.
14:48<George>If you continue to experience problems please contact your Redmine administrator for assistance.
14:48<George>
14:48<George>If you are the Redmine administrator, check your log files for details about the error.
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15:13<andythenorth>o/
15:14<^Spike^>George see devzone channel :)
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15:23<@Alberth>o/
15:24<@Alberth>andythenorth: You are aware that Buildwas General Cargo Tram jumps towards the player in ____ view ?
15:24<andythenorth>no but unsurprised :)
15:25<andythenorth>might be borked offsets, or just bad sprites
15:25<Julian_>can no one help me with openttdlib ? :(
15:26<@Alberth>both directions, don't if it's the same sprite
15:27<@Alberth>Julian_: very few server owners here apparently
15:28<Julian_>I dont know :/
15:29<@Alberth>andythenorth: smoke is also pretty bad
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15:33<@Alberth>livestock makes a lot of money :)
15:33<andythenorth>ha
15:33<andythenorth>to all of it :)
15:33<andythenorth>livestock making money? o_O
15:33<andythenorth>shameful :o
15:34<andythenorth>livestock should walk on it’s own
15:34<andythenorth>its
15:35<@Alberth>and deny me my money? no thank you :p
15:36<Rubidium>I guess the parma ham will get really tough then ;)
15:37<andythenorth>another HEQS tram IRL!
15:37<andythenorth>http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=497029&nseq=144
15:37<andythenorth>mixed track too
15:37*andythenorth considers multi-gauge railtype
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15:46<@planetmaker>good evening
15:50<@Alberth>evenink
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15:53<b_jonas>andythenorth: multi-gauge? isn't that a train type that can run on two rail types?
15:54<andythenorth>mixed gauge then
15:54<andythenorth>terminology :P
15:56<b_jonas>but what's that like?
15:56<b_jonas>does it have three rails?
15:57<andythenorth>it’s in the linked picture
15:59<b_jonas>oh
15:59<b_jonas>I see
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16:11<b_jonas>is there a way to make a special railway waypoint that warns me with a message if a train ever passes through it, to debug rail routing?
16:12<@planetmaker>no such thing exists
16:12<b_jonas>ok
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16:14<@planetmaker>interesting. that split was said to split accross the atlantic ;)
16:15<Rubidium>interesting definition of atlantic
16:16<b_jonas>I'm in the early stage of this game now, building simple coal trains to get some money, and buses to grow the towns, so I don't need debugging train routes yet
16:16<b_jonas>but later it might be useful
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16:16<Rubidium>create a trap with signals?
16:17<Rubidium>then it'll eventually show up as non-profitable
16:17<b_jonas>won't the routing algorithm notice the trap and not route there?
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16:17<b_jonas>whereas a waypoint won't influence where the train goes
16:17<b_jonas>or so I hope
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16:17<Rubidium>if you make the trap right it shouldn't
16:18<b_jonas>I'm not sure how to make the trap that way then
16:18<@planetmaker>oh, everything has an influence on the path :) signals, track bends, level crossings, stations, waypoints, other trains, bridges, tunnels, slopes,
16:18<b_jonas>btw, I really like this industrial stations newgrf
16:19<Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/Condham%20Transport,%201950-01-17.png <- trap
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16:20<b_jonas>Rubidium: ah, good idea
16:20<Rubidium>and it doesn't influence the pathfinder as far as I can tell
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16:20<Rubidium>you mustn't use path signals though, then it doesn't work at all
16:20<b_jonas>right
16:21<b_jonas>and this works with two-way signals too
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16:28<b_jonas>stupid train, you're going the wrong way!
16:28<b_jonas>arghed, I jinxed it when I said I wouldn't need to debug trains thsi early
16:28<andythenorth>what is ‘debugging trains’?
16:29<+glx>if train goes the wrong way it's a layout problem
16:29<b_jonas>yep, it's a problem in my layout
16:29<b_jonas>that's what I have to debug
16:30<andythenorth>use the pro approach
16:30<b_jonas>ah, I think I know the problem
16:30<andythenorth>one track per train
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16:30<b_jonas>they're going into depots then want to go back to the station before
16:30<andythenorth>one track per train, no signals
16:30<+glx>ha yes depot placement must be smart
16:31*andythenorth never has train routing problems
16:31<andythenorth>or rooting problems
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16:41<b_jonas>um
16:42<b_jonas>how do I make the train load a full wagon of coal to half its carriages rather than loading half a wagon of coal to each carriage?
16:42<b_jonas>I have trains that serve two coal mines that are very close to each other
16:43<+glx>disable gradual loading maybe
16:49<andythenorth>it’s the same result no?
16:49<andythenorth>250t coal in a 500t train? or whatever?
16:49<b_jonas>andythenorth: yes, but different source stations
16:50<b_jonas>but it probably doesn't matter
16:50<andythenorth>use a 50% load order
16:50<andythenorth>you’ll have to patch for it first :(
16:50<+glx>each cargo packet knows from where it comes
16:50<b_jonas>I think I should just leave it this way
16:50<+glx>so it doesn't matter
16:50<b_jonas>ok
16:51<b_jonas>so it just doesn't display both sources in the train info dialog
16:51<b_jonas>it probably doesn't matter for station ratings or industry production changes or income
16:51<b_jonas>I won't try to fix it then
16:51<+glx>hehe imagine the dialog for passengers with cargo dist ;)
16:53<b_jonas>well, I have four coal wagons on the train, so it could just list one station for the first two wagons and another for the next two wagons
16:53<b_jonas>but it's not important really
16:54<b_jonas>am I the only one who likes to use the autoroad tool but not the autorail tool?
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17:11*andythenorth wonders if tram tracks show up in industry tile landscape checks
17:11*andythenorth spec
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17:13<frosch123>i doubt that
17:13<andythenorth>var 60 has nothing for it
17:13<b_jonas>whew, good thing I loaded this ship newgrf to this game
17:13<andythenorth>I can’t read the tile bits directly?
17:13<b_jonas>now I have a cheap ship to build
17:13<frosch123>of course you can't
17:13<andythenorth>every so often this fricking petrol stations -> tram tracks bug gets reported
17:13<frosch123>they changed like 10 times
17:13<frosch123>would be hell to support
17:14<andythenorth>he :)
17:14<andythenorth>if I removed that petrol stations feature, I’d get the bug reported that they don’t build near roads
17:15<b_jonas>petrol stations?
17:15<andythenorth>gas stations
17:15<Wolf01>'night
17:16<andythenorth>or however it’s translated
17:16<b_jonas>yeah
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17:16<b_jonas>but what are those in ottd?
17:16<b_jonas>depots?
17:16<andythenorth>petrol stations are petrol stations
17:16<andythenorth>industry
17:16<andythenorth>sometimes house
17:16<andythenorth>depends
17:16<andythenorth>pikka has them as houses
17:17<andythenorth>I have industry
17:18<frosch123>night
17:18<b_jonas>oh
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17:18<andythenorth>b_jonas: which ships?
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17:23<b_jonas>ships from the FISH ship set
17:24<b_jonas>gives me a cheap ship which I use to make a town on an island grow
17:24<andythenorth>that one’s rubbish
17:24<andythenorth>I wouldn’t touch it
17:24<b_jonas>can you recommend another one then, for next game?
17:25<andythenorth>Squid Ate FISH!
17:25<andythenorth> (FISH 2 on bananas)
17:26<b_jonas>Fish 2? ok
17:30<andythenorth>bye
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17:31<b_jonas>stupid industries are starting to close because of supply problems. do they expect me to supply everything at once?
17:34<FLHerne>b_jonas: If you can't supply everything anyway, why do you care about the industries closing?
17:34-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has quit []
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>b_jonas: well, sorta. there is a protective period of like 5 years after game start, then practically everything you didn't connect yet closes...
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>which, on larger maps, leaves you with vast stretches of unindustrialized landscape
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17:45<b_jonas>yep
17:46<b_jonas>so now I have to check where the factories and sawmills and steel mills are located and connect some so they don't cloas
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17:49<b_jonas>oh, they removed this steel mill
17:52<FLHerne>b_jonas: You only really need one of each
17:52<FLHerne>The annoying thing is when they close after you've started building a route to them
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18:46<b_jonas>I built trucks. I know I'll regret this. Trucks are a pain.
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 09 00:00:36 2014