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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-09-11

---Logopened Thu Sep 11 00:00:43 2014
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01:11<Supercheese>Google translate does not handle ablative absolutes very well
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04:44<@planetmaker>hm, this is the 23rd largest channel on this network :D
04:44<@peter1138>..
04:44<@peter1138>it's pretty tiny
04:45<@planetmaker>yeah, still :)
04:45<@planetmaker>http://searchirc.com/search.php?SCHANS=1&SSORT=SIZE&N=OFTC&D=color&P=1
04:45<@peter1138>woo yay, updates for packages updated yesterday :S
04:46<@planetmaker>yup, had that, too. well :) good and bad, can't decide :)
05:19<@peter1138>yeah, more acpi fixes too
05:19<@peter1138>and libcurl
05:19<@peter1138>those 2 apply to way more systems than the libmagic fix :S
05:21<@peter1138>one day i'll figure out puppet
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06:45<blathijs>1/n
06:45<blathijs>w00ps
06:49<Sacro>zomg blathijs
06:50<blathijs>Sacro: hm?
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08:36<andythenorth_>Lo pikka bob
08:42<Pikka>lo alphonso the terrible
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08:45<FUZxxl>I have a question
08:45<Pikka>don't we all
08:45<FUZxxl>Is there code in OpenTTD that makes breakdowns more likely if a train is on a junction?
08:46<@planetmaker>there is no such code
08:47<FUZxxl>uhh..
08:47<FUZxxl>It really feels like that.
08:50<V453000>XD
08:50<V453000>perhaps it is because your trains are slowed at a junction, spending more time there, increasing the probability that it happens there
08:50<FUZxxl>might be
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe it's a perception bias. breakdowns on a junction cause more harm, so you notice them more often
09:04<@planetmaker>or both :)
09:15-!-SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@145.15.244.35] has joined #openttd
09:20<FUZxxl>I wonder why OpenTTD semaphores look so much like German H/V signals. Wasn't Sawyer british?
09:21<__ln__>or scottish?
09:21<FUZxxl>or that
09:21<FUZxxl>either way, British semaphors look different
09:21<__ln__>indeed, scottish.
09:21<__ln__>also, he's still alive for all we know. therefore not "was".
09:22<FUZxxl>true.
09:22<__ln__>what about scottish semaphores?
09:22<FUZxxl>I think they use the British ones
09:22<FUZxxl>let me pull out some pictures
09:23<FUZxxl>H/V semaphors: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Formsignale_Solarzellen_LEDs.jpg
09:23<FUZxxl>H/V light signals: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Einfahrsignal_Friedrichsdorf_Hp2_Zs3v.jpg
09:23<FUZxxl>british semaphor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rail-semaphore-signal-Dave-F.jpg
09:24<Pikka>because the semaphores in OpenTTD with "original" graphics are probably the ones drawn by Michael Blunck for TTDPatch
09:24<FUZxxl>Ah, I see.
09:24<Pikka>TTD doesn't have semaphore signals at all
09:24<FUZxxl>ok.
09:26<FUZxxl>But actually, this is nice. I like H/V signals more than these british things.
09:26<FUZxxl>Where's Blunck from?
09:26<Pikka>Germany
09:26<FUZxxl>okay. That makes sense.
09:27<FUZxxl>I read that there is a way to use the original TTD graphics with OpenTTD. How?
09:28<@planetmaker>readme, chapter 4 :P
09:28<FUZxxl>ok.
09:30<FUZxxl>Ah, I see.
09:30<FUZxxl>Didn't realize there is a FAQ.
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09:50<Pikka>doesn't it
09:50<andythenorth>I think so
09:50<andythenorth>but I’m not sure
09:50<Pikka>k
09:51<andythenorth>what do you think?
09:51<Pikka>I think it's turned out nice again
09:51<andythenorth>yeah
09:51<andythenorth>looks that way
09:51*andythenorth can haz IH add-ons already
09:51<Pikka>apparently
09:51<andythenorth>shiny
09:51<Pikka>and from someone who can code them, rather than just posting sprites inna thread
09:51<Pikka>fancy
09:52<andythenorth>indeed
09:52<andythenorth>I think I won at reusable code
09:52<andythenorth>two sets have been forked now
09:52<andythenorth>will I have to do support? :o
09:56<Pikka>yes, it is your duty
09:58<andythenorth>probly easier to support 2 people who can code than answer player requests :P
09:58<FUZxxl>Was there really no music in the original TTD?
09:58<__ln__>where did you get that strange idea?
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10:00<andythenorth>Pikka: I have randomised tank engines. Should I remove them or not?
10:01<Pikka>randomised how? flipped?
10:02<Pikka>they're fine I think. I just leave things manually flippable these days, but that's not an option if you're going to have weird 3-part vehicles :)
10:02<@planetmaker>:)
10:05<FUZxxl>__ln__: I imported the resource files from TTD into OpenTTD as described and still, no music.
10:05<FUZxxl>ah, I'm stupid.
10:06<FUZxxl>I only have the DOS version. That makes sense.
10:06<Pikka>no, it doesn't make sense at all
10:06<Pikka>better make sure you've selected the right base music
10:07<FUZxxl>Pikka: the readme says:
10:07<FUZxxl>he music from the DOS version as well as the original Transport Tycoon does
10:07<FUZxxl>not work.
10:07<Pikka>I see
10:07<Pikka>better go "find" the windows version then. or just mp3s from somewhere :)
10:08<andythenorth>smoke on the flipped engines is in wrong place
10:08<andythenorth>spose I could fix that :P
10:08<FUZxxl>Pikka: Yeah, let me "search"
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>something was odd with the DOS music format. it was midi, but not quite, and nobody ever bothered to reverse engineer it
10:09<FUZxxl>Wow. I didn't know that OpenTTD works on DOS, too.
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>that has nothing to do with that
10:10<FUZxxl>Eddi|zuHause: No, it hasn't.
10:10<FUZxxl>I just read the rest of the readme including compilation options for DOS. I wonder if it works on Minix as well...
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>only very few people ever tried compiling for DOS. i hear getting the right libraries is a pain, and network doesn't work (multiplayer, bananas)
10:12<FUZxxl>ok
10:13<@planetmaker>allegedly it compiles
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10:18<FUZxxl>That's something, isn't it?
10:19<@planetmaker>some effort, yes :P
10:20<FUZxxl>Does it work on Plan 9?
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10:24<Eddi|zuHause>from outer space?
10:25<@planetmaker>yes, it does work in outer space
10:25<FUZxxl>Eddi|zuHause: From Bell Labs.
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>don't they make telephones?
10:25<FUZxxl>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_(Betriebssystem)
10:26<FUZxxl>They also make operating systems, like Unix and Plan 9.
10:26<FUZxxl>And programming languages like C and awk.
10:26<FUZxxl>And they brought us the bastard which is AT&T assembly syntax for x86.
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>what i learned about open source communities is: never underestimate the number of obscure platforms that people have tried things on
10:28<FUZxxl>hehe
10:28<andythenorth>anyone compiled for Risc OS?
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Outer_Space
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i ever actually watched this movie. only seen references to it
10:29<@peter1138>there was a RISC OS port a long time ago
10:29<@peter1138>pre-c++ etc
10:30<@planetmaker>maybe we should add some more obscure build nodes to our CF ;)
10:31<@peter1138>IOS?
10:31<@peter1138>(Cisco)
10:31<@planetmaker>currently it's only 12 target platforms for releases
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose the majority of "ports" out there is just trying to get SDL to compile
10:32<FUZxxl>hehe
10:32<FUZxxl>the Plan 9 graphics API is actually pleasant to use. Porting SDL shouldn't be too difficult.
10:33<@planetmaker>yeah... well. iOS and Android seem to work, somewhat. FreeBSD and OpenBSD and Solaris work, too... makes it 17. Add some more from debian's CF...
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>the challenge for iOS is mainly circumventing the apple store, and the challenge for android is getting a useful interface
10:35<@planetmaker>another 10 from debian
10:35<@planetmaker>the challenge for the interface holds true for any handheld OS really
10:36<FUZxxl>I heard TTD was ported to Android some time ago.
10:36<FUZxxl>How does Sawyer solve the issue of the limited GUI?
10:36<@planetmaker>hm, or 18. Depends on whether one looks at wheezy or sid :)
10:37<@planetmaker>FUZxxl, for all I heard: badly
10:37<@planetmaker>and also it's more a locomotion port
10:38<FUZxxl>ok
10:38<FUZxxl>Am I a whimp for wanting to turn off breakdowns?
10:38<FUZxxl>It annoys me to no end that trains keep fucking up in the middle of my junctions.
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>i have disabled breakdowns for years
10:39<@peter1138>i think most people do
10:39<@planetmaker>the switch is there for a reason. Everyone how s/he likes
10:39<FUZxxl>ok.
10:40<FUZxxl>also, is there a NewGRF that allows vehicles to auto-replace themselves with newer models?
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is not that they break down, but that you have no sensible mitigation techniques
10:40<FUZxxl>Eddi|zuHause: true. And breakdowns occur fairly often.
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>there is no such newgrf, as this is a builtin feature
10:40<@planetmaker>FUZxxl, you look for autorenew, not autoreplace
10:41<@planetmaker>or vice versa. but yes
10:41<+michi_cc>FUZxxl: http://wiki.openttd.org/Replace_vehicles
10:41<@planetmaker>though not by themselves. It needs you to make that decision
10:41<FUZxxl>Eddi|zuHause: apparently I'm too stupid to do that.
10:42<FUZxxl>Now I understand how this works.
10:42<FUZxxl>On another note, I have the feeling that monorail is a bit weird.
10:42<FUZxxl>It appears were closely to the much more powerful maglev
10:43<FUZxxl>And it's not really upgradeable to it.
10:57<andythenorth>monorail is dubious
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11:01<Pikka>bonorail
11:01<andythenorth>he :)
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11:01<andythenorth>it goes where the streets have no name
11:01<andythenorth>with or without you
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11:02<Pikka>hmm @ forums
11:03<Pikka>"I know more about your religious beliefs than you do because I looked it up on wikipedia"
11:03<@planetmaker>popcorn?
11:04<Pikka>not to mention aantono insisting on posting about his problem in every single thread
11:05<andythenorth>I think we have him in right place yet?
11:06<@planetmaker>hm, yeah
11:06<andythenorth>transfers and station refits are borked htough
11:06<andythenorth>though *
11:07<andythenorth>I had an example in the game that was on nightly server
11:07<andythenorth>might still be there
11:07<andythenorth>totally screwed up behaviour
11:08<@planetmaker>hm... there might be some issue lurking. Many people seem to have issues there
11:09<andythenorth>I found a run of issues 3-4 months ago, fonso fixed them
11:09<andythenorth>seems we didn’t raise FS though
11:10<andythenorth>issues like the reservation taking place, but the refit failing because the vehicles weren’t empty when the refit tried to run
11:10<andythenorth>leaving the cargo marooned
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>what's the deal with this aantono guy? he imposes his "problem" on other people who have totally unrelated problems...
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11:16<andythenorth>he posted first in the Squid and FIRS threads :)
11:16<andythenorth>both
11:17<andythenorth>despite that the train with the ‘bug’ belonged to Pikka
11:17<andythenorth>so I blame pikka
11:18<FUZxxl>Can someone suggest me some Germany themed NewGRFs?
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>i think cargodist with refit orders needs to merge the graphs for different cargos, so each edge of the graph now has the cargos available to refit attached to it, but one combined capacity
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11:20<andythenorth>German RV set
11:20<andythenorth>DB set
11:20<andythenorth>NewShips
11:20<andythenorth>German Stations
11:21<andythenorth>or NewStations (can’t remember which)
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>*hust* https://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cets/push/LATEST/
11:21<@planetmaker>FUZxxl, everything German usually is only badly findable when it comes to OpenTTD terms
11:21<Pikka>sekret german TTD
11:21<FUZxxl>:-(
11:22<andythenorth>german forum?
11:22<@planetmaker>you'll have to search the interweb for it. No ingame downloads, no older versions of the NewGRFs (which you might need for older savegames), (very) infrequent updates
11:23<@planetmaker>in the German forums you will find links, yes
11:23<FUZxxl>ok...
11:23<@planetmaker>Generally 'German' implies a German level of customer support :P
11:23<@planetmaker>by all means of cliché
11:24<FUZxxl>hehe
11:24*planetmaker is not necessarily an exception :P
11:25<FUZxxl>I just want my H/V signals...
11:25<@planetmaker>change the driving side. And try again a new game
11:25<@planetmaker>maybe that helps. maybe not. dunno :)
11:26<FUZxxl>pff...
11:27-!-Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
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11:27<@Alberth>hi hi
11:27<@planetmaker>o/
11:28<@planetmaker>and actually.... good bye till tomorrow :)
11:28<@Alberth>that was short :)
11:28<@Alberth>have a nice evening
11:28<@planetmaker>sorry. But I would not want to miss out the dinner... ;)
11:28<@Alberth>:)
11:28<@planetmaker>and it's a lovely way to there and I got my camera with me :D
11:29<@Alberth>hopefully you're early enough to make a few pictures
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11:38<andythenorth>lo Alberth
11:38<andythenorth>made any more bugs?
11:38<@Alberth>is income > 1,000,000 pound in 15 years a bug?
11:39<FUZxxl>o.O zBase is huge.
11:40<@Alberth>nah, for a complete base set in full detail :)
11:41<FUZxxl>okay.
11:42<@Alberth>try yeti :p
11:42<@Alberth>also 140MB for just an industry set of 10 or so buildings :)
11:43<Pikka>don't forget to get pineapple trains while you're there
11:44<@Alberth>good point
11:44<FUZxxl>wasn't yeti the set with the cool animated industried?
11:44<FUZxxl>Pikka: Thank you for drawing the Berlin U-Bahn trains.
11:44<@Alberth>that's the yeti I am talking about
11:44<Pikka>did I?
11:45<FUZxxl>zBase looks so crisp.
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11:46<@Alberth>way too crisp imho
11:46<Pikka>whoops
11:46<Pikka>what did you do to squidfish, andythenorth?
11:46<andythenorth>ate it
11:46<andythenorth>what did I do?
11:47<Pikka>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=180759
11:47<andythenorth>Alberth: Iron Horse is easy to make money with
11:47<Pikka>this, apparently
11:47<andythenorth>everything is fast and cheap
11:47<@Alberth>ok, then it's not a bug
11:47<andythenorth>Pikka: I did that? Clever me.
11:47<Pikka>I don't know
11:47<Pikka>did you?
11:48<andythenorth>doesn’t look like that for me
11:48<andythenorth>did you do that? o_O
11:48<Pikka>it's inna squid thread
11:48<Pikka>it's not me
11:48<andythenorth>oic
11:48<andythenorth>changed newgrfs on a running game
11:48<andythenorth>90% bet
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>that would be my first guess as well
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11:58<andythenorth>looks like he had a version where two rosters were present, and now he has the version where the second one is removed temporarily
11:58<andythenorth>maybe I didn’t bump savegame version
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>min compatible version?
11:59<andythenorth>hmm
12:00<andythenorth>it’s in my RC8
12:00<andythenorth>which is odd
12:00<andythenorth>it wasn’t there last time I looked :P
12:00<@Alberth>it sneaked itself in :)
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>committed stuff that wasn't meant to be committed?
12:04<andythenorth>bad branch merge is my first guess
12:04<andythenorth>I don’t understand hg branch merges at all
12:04<andythenorth>hmm that was after rc8 tag
12:07<FUZxxl>Now I compiled the new OpenTTD (instead of using the Debian package) and music won't play anymore...
12:07<andythenorth>and now the FISH build doesn’t work either :P
12:07*andythenorth back to work, fix crap later
12:07<FUZxxl>Do I have to select to use timidity at compile time?
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>FUZxxl: did configure complain about missing libraries?
12:08<FUZxxl>Eddi|zuHause: no.
12:09<FUZxxl>> checking libtimidity... not found
12:09<FUZxxl>well, this happened.
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>FUZxxl: does openttd -h list anything?
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>FUZxxl: no, libtimidity is not the same as timidity
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>timidity is run via extmidi
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12:09<FUZxxl>List of music drivers:
12:09<FUZxxl> extmidi: External MIDI Driver
12:09<FUZxxl> null: Null Music Driver
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>libtimidity is some really outdated stuff
12:10<FUZxxl>Do I have to set the music driver to extmidi in my openttd.cfg?
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>it should be detected by default
12:10<LordAro>wrt new ottdcoop paste service, is there an equivalent upload script? (the previous had "lodgeit.py") i always found it very useful... (yes, i could write my own, but effort..)
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>extmidi = timidity <-- it says in my openttd.cfg
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>but i haven't tried music in ages
12:12<FUZxxl>It doesn't on my system
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>did it detect the sound set?
12:12<FUZxxl>under [misc] or under [music]
12:12<FUZxxl>Eddi|zuHause: yes
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>*mental note* get a useful soundfont before trying music again...
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>this sounds terrible...
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i don't know what you can do now. there's a way to specify the command that extmidi uses on the command line
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't remember the syntax
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12:38<frosch123>hola
12:38<andythenorth>lo frosch123
12:39<@Alberth>hi hi
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13:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r26811 /trunk/src (6 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-11 17:10:38 UTC)
13:10<@DorpsGek>-Fix[FS#6108]: Fixed spelling error in widget name.
13:18<LordAro>http://sayakb.github.io/sticky-notes/pages/api/ would "parameters" be "<url>?data=text&language=text" or "<url>" with the POST data set as the json? it seems to me to be the latter, but i can't get it to work...
13:19<frosch123>we already have a script to upload stuff
13:19<LordAro>...of course you do
13:19<LordAro>can i has?
13:20<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/all?/all <- it has been posted like 3 times :p
13:21<LordAro>well then
13:21<LordAro>thanks :)
13:21<frosch123>sorry for not answering your question btw :p
13:22<LordAro>:p
13:22<LordAro>purely out of interest, any idea where i was going wrong? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pk6vrhpz5
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13:27<frosch123>the guys at #freerct might know :)
13:28<LordAro>funny that :p
13:29<DanMacK>hey all
13:29<LordAro>also, that script isn't working ;)
13:29<LordAro>returns the value correctly, but then complains - the grep statement isn't working correctly
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13:31*DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large fishbot
13:31<frosch123>he is searching for a cat or something
13:31<DanMacK>ahhh
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>you don't find a cat. a cat finds you
13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26812 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2014-09-11 17:46:29 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 9 changes by telanus
13:46<@DorpsGek>polish - 30 changes by McZapkie
13:46<@DorpsGek>slovak - 4 changes by Milsa
13:46<@DorpsGek>slovenian - 1 changes by ntadej
13:46<@DorpsGek>spanish - 4 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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13:48<Wolf01>hi
13:50<@Alberth>hi
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14:33<frosch123>LordAro: did you finish your script? :p
14:33<LordAro>kinda
14:34<LordAro>i got it working, at least
14:34<frosch123>i need a new one, the other one does not work :p
14:35<LordAro>told you ;)
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14:36<LordAro>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p1vlcxaec - filled with debug statements and badly printed output, but it works :)
14:36<LordAro>feel free to improve it ;)
14:36<LordAro>stdin only as yet
14:38<frosch123>thanks :)
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14:40<andythenorth>also where is cat?
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15:05<andythenorth>so no more Iron Horse bugs?
15:05<andythenorth>o_O
15:06<andythenorth>so umm
15:06<andythenorth>random_switch
15:06<andythenorth>is per vehicle
15:07<andythenorth>oops
15:07*andythenorth makes a fix
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15:15<andythenorth>fun times, this 3-part vehicle game
15:17<andythenorth>solved that issue :P
15:18<andythenorth>so does anything trigger re-randomising the vehicle random bits?
15:18<andythenorth>or can I trust them?
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15:35<Wolf01>I forgot how painfully was to start a new game with trains using ukrs and opengfx+ industries
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16:39<frosch123>night
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16:55<andythenorth>bye
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18:07<Wolf01>'night all
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---Logclosed Fri Sep 12 00:00:47 2014