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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-09-12

---Logopened Fri Sep 12 00:00:47 2014
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06:48<Pikkaphone>more like bananaphone
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07:51<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> so does anything trigger re-randomising the vehicle random bits? <- if you don't set any triggers, it won't be triggered
07:52<andythenorth>so I can probably use that to fix smoke for randomly-reversed engines
07:52<andythenorth>or I just leave it coming out of the cab
07:53<Eddi|zuHause>just make sure you use the same decision chain everywhere
07:53<andythenorth>oh so I have to use the same random switch, and then check which callback I’m in?
07:54<andythenorth>or just same structure for random switch?
07:54<@peter1138>use the same random bit that determines if the vehicle is reversed...
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>copy-paste will be enough
07:54<andythenorth>it’s fake reversed
07:54<andythenorth>I broke most of newgrf with these 3-part articulated vehicles
07:54<andythenorth>I can use ~nothing of the built-in stuff
07:55<andythenorth>I’m going to have to build my own switches for cargo load states too :P
07:55<@peter1138>i said use the same bit, not use the reversed flag.
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>i've done that as well
07:55<@peter1138>if you used different bits for the smoke, then it wouldn't match...
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>but also because i don't like the 33/66 split
07:55<andythenorth>oic, check a bit
07:56<andythenorth>does nml have that built in?
07:56*andythenorth checks
07:56<Eddi|zuHause>i want more like a 10/90 split for 3 loading states
07:56<andythenorth>nml has ‘dependent’
07:56<Eddi|zuHause>so empty: <10%, half-full: 10-90%, full: >90%
07:57<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: agreed, makes sense
07:57<andythenorth>might code that tonight
07:57<andythenorth>I don’t actually understand the nml dependent stuff
07:57<andythenorth>but eh
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>yes, "dependent" is what you want
07:59<Pikkaphone>silly old nml
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>and you want FORWARD_SAME or BACKWARD_SAME for the other vehicle parts
08:00<andythenorth>for smoke, or for cargos?
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>for the random switches
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>the first part uses "SELF" as reference, the second part FORWARD_SAME(1) and the third part FORWARD_SAME(2)
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>then they all read the random bits of the same vehicle
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>err, SELF, not SAME
08:02<andythenorth>yeah :)
08:02<andythenorth>I found that yesterday
08:02<Pikkaphone>self difference
08:02<andythenorth>I had vehicles in depot different colour to out of depot ;)
08:03<andythenorth>clever old nml
08:03<andythenorth>lo Pikkaphone
08:03<Pikkaphone>mmmm cabeeses
08:03<Pikkaphone>how many?
08:03<andythenorth>why do we do them?
08:04<Pikkaphone>should make a cabeese of the world set
08:04<andythenorth>maybe later
08:04<Pikkaphone>50 useless vehicles to fill your buy list
08:04<andythenorth>and random variations
08:06<andythenorth>Iron Horse caboose has no variations
08:06<andythenorth>maybe I should
08:06<Pikkaphone>50 useless vehicles is not a radical departure from traditional set design hur hur
08:06<Pikkaphone>does it reverse?
08:06<andythenorth>hur hur hur
08:06<andythenorth>yes, inwisibly
08:07<andythenorth>it’s symmetrical
08:07<Pikkaphone> imperceptibly?
08:07<andythenorth>I keep thinking….cargo bonus for having a cabeese?
08:07<andythenorth>then I think again
08:07<Pikkaphone>bad bad bad feature
08:08<andythenorth>improved reliability?
08:08<andythenorth>if cabeeses?
08:08<Pikkaphone>no, nothing
08:10<Pikkaphone>but what of ship cabeese?
08:10*Pikkaphone berb
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08:25<Pikka>u wot m8
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08:28<Pikka>also, don't give cabeese low speed limits
08:28<Pikka>that's shamefully realistic
08:29<Pikka>andythenorth, my assigment is in (with almost an hour to spare!), so I guess I'm working on a hoverzellepin now
08:30<andythenorth>Pikka: cabeese could have no speed limit?
08:31<Pikka>I think that some wagons having speed limits and some not is a bad feature, inconsistency and all
08:32<andythenorth>oops :P
08:32<andythenorth>inconsistency be damned
08:32<@planetmaker>omg. We should make a totally consistent set
08:32<@planetmaker>10 vehicles. All the same speed and same stats
08:32<andythenorth>once you’re at 100mph+, it might as well be no speed limit imho
08:33<Pikka>but certainly in bineabble the caboose goes 150mph
08:33<@planetmaker>hi hi also :)
08:33<andythenorth>hi hi Pikka
08:33<Pikka>which is as fast as any other wagon
08:33<andythenorth>hi hi planetmaker
08:33<Pikka>him too
08:33<andythenorth>is meh backwards
08:33<andythenorth>planetmaker: make an Iron Horse fork, totally consistent
08:34<andythenorth>all vehicles have sames stats
08:34<Pikka>iron force hawk
08:34<@planetmaker>buy different vehicles just for the looks
08:34<andythenorth>8/8, 65mph, 30 units, refittables
08:34<@planetmaker>I'll call that set trojan horse then
08:34<@peter1138>why change the looks? that's inconsistent
08:34<andythenorth>blocks ftw
08:34<andythenorth>eddi has some
08:37<andythenorth>Pikka: so which hoverzellepin? o_O
08:37<andythenorth>a realism one, or a made-up one?
08:38<Pikka>srn4ish? I mean, I want a made-up one, but I can make it as "realism" as you want.
08:40<Pikka>choo choo
08:40<Pikka>no hovercaboose though, shameful display
08:41<andythenorth>srn4ish is good
08:41<andythenorth>I need a smaller one as well
08:41<andythenorth>100 pax or so
08:41<Pikka>a passenger one or a container one?
08:42<andythenorth>mixed up one
08:42<andythenorth>hang on
08:42<andythenorth>a VT 2 ish one
08:42<andythenorth>was only ever a prototype
08:45<andythenorth>also bloody loads of Griffon hoverzeps
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11:34<Pikka>lol @ the train driving through the tram on the crossing @ 57s D:
11:35<Pikka>lol @ the tram chucking a uey @ 2:03
11:35<@peter1138>ah, a game
11:36<andythenorth>nice to know they kept the spirit of ttd
11:36<andythenorth>they said they are inspired by it
11:36<andythenorth>but will I play it?
11:36<Pikka>I don't know
11:37<andythenorth>neither do I know
11:37<Pikka>it supposedly has very poor performance, and isn't out onna mac yet
11:37<andythenorth>must have itonna mac
11:37<andythenorth>sad times
11:37<Pikka>it was supposed to be released for mac and linux today, I don't know if it was/will be though
11:38<andythenorth>oh dear
11:38<@Alberth>people getting in the tram part where there is no door @ 1:58
11:39<@peter1138>urgh, i blinked this morning, and another massive load of updates appeared :S
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12:01<Eddi|zuHause>i think it looks kinda cool
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't played it.
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26813 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt german.txt) (2014-09-12 17:45:33 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 16 changes by telanus
13:45<@DorpsGek>german - 25 changes by MG
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14:14<@Alberth>hi hi
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14:16<andythenorth>refit patch
14:16<andythenorth>about time :)
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14:19<Wolf01>hi hi
14:19<Supercheese>I approve of the "allow autorefit even if GRF doesn't" feature
14:20<@Alberth>sounds like a nice recipe for disasters
14:21<Supercheese>eh, I make a lot of custom changes that y'all likely wouldn't approve of :P
14:21<andythenorth>I approve of removing the newgrfs ability to prevent autorefit in a cb
14:23<Rubidium>I approve of replacing all cargos with one cargo: "matter". Solves all the refit related issues once and for all
14:23<Supercheese>but what if you want to add "energy" cargo?
14:23<Supercheese>you'd have one heck of a conversion factor
14:23<Rubidium>that's matter as well
14:24<@planetmaker>conversion factor of 9*10^16 only
14:24<Supercheese> :D
14:27<@Alberth>see those trains fly!
14:28<@planetmaker>cargo: 15t of matter. refit: 9*10^22 units of energy
14:28<@planetmaker>hm... 15*9*...
14:29<Rubidium>isn't matter just a container of energy?
14:29<Supercheese>Integer overflow
14:29<@planetmaker>and only ^19
14:29<@planetmaker>Rubidium, not really :)
14:30<andythenorth>I approve of overflows
14:30<@Alberth>just use Python :p
14:30<Supercheese>"I'm reporting an overflow error in your code." "My cup runneth over."
14:31<@planetmaker>Supercheese, isn't that reporting an overflow error on your keyboard? :D
14:31<Supercheese>Be hard to report that since they keyboard would stop working :P
14:33<Rubidium>okay, I revoke my approval of the cargo "matter" and replace it with an approval for the cargo "particle"
14:34<Supercheese>"Your cargo has tunneled out of its potential well inside the wagon"
14:34<@planetmaker>particle and matter is equivalent :)
14:34<Rubidium>then photons are matter?
14:34<@planetmaker>hm... or not :)
14:34<@planetmaker>photons matter. For sure :P
14:34<Rubidium>higgs boson matter?
14:34<Supercheese>They only matter to physicists :P
14:35<@planetmaker>would be dark without, Supercheese ;)
14:35<@planetmaker>higgs probably matters, too. Especially in the buget planning
14:35<Rubidium>but not in sense of the cargo "matter" vs "particle"
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14:45<andythenorth>but anyway, commit that patch!!!
14:45*andythenorth thinks maybe not
14:45<andythenorth>but the autorefit cb is silly
14:51<andythenorth>also, where is my free U2 album?
14:51<Supercheese>The Internet, I would expect
14:52<andythenorth>bloody internet
14:55*andythenorth fixes Iron Horse some more
14:55<andythenorth>Alberth: did you make more bugs yet? :)
14:56<Wolf01>I want to do something, I have a lot of ideas
14:57<@Alberth>I didn't play
14:58<@Alberth>not sure I want to continue shortly, it's a bit of a boring game
14:59<andythenorth>oh dear :)
14:59<andythenorth>Horse not challenging enough?
14:59<andythenorth>it’s quite easy to make money with
15:05<@Alberth>no nice clusters of industry that produce heaps of stuff to transport
15:06<@Alberth>no RV to bridge small gaps
15:06<@Alberth>and no fast trains to bring it in from far away
15:06<andythenorth>what year? o_O
15:06<@Alberth>but ok, it's 1897 :p
15:07<@Alberth>ie 17 years into the game
15:07<andythenorth>yeah, it starts 1870 because Dan starts games early
15:07<andythenorth>but I only play 1900+
15:07<andythenorth>pre-1900 seems to suit people who like to watch the trains go by :)
15:10<@Alberth>I do that too, but it needs more interesting amounts of traffic first :p
15:12<andythenorth>change the year :P
15:13<@Alberth>that would be cheating :p
15:13*andythenorth cheats freely
15:13<@Alberth>besides, my newgrfs are probably all obsolete by now
15:15<andythenorth>I am releasing most days :P
15:15<andythenorth>play faster :P
15:16*Rubidium knows that feeling
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15:16<Rubidium>guess I made at least one release every day last week
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15:17<andythenorth>is that a lavatory humour joke?
15:18<Rubidium>only releases of software
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15:30*andythenorth had better make smoke
15:32<@Alberth>light a fire, add cloth with oil
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't that work better the other way around?
15:35<andythenorth>bah, I don’t just randomise graphics
15:35<andythenorth>I do it by date too
15:35<andythenorth>that’s a lot of copy-paste just to move smoke around
15:37<andythenorth>sometimes vehicle-local storage would be handy :P
15:38<@Alberth>make two engines :p
15:38<andythenorth>it’s not hard work
15:38<andythenorth>just fiddly and boring
15:38<andythenorth>and prone to going wrong with future changes
15:38<@Alberth>hmm, would also show up twice in the buy menu then, I guess
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15:40<andythenorth>I should just randomise by build date
15:40<Wolf01> reflex test?
15:40<andythenorth>odd days = forward, even days = backwards
15:41<@Alberth>even days in odd months or odd days in even months :p
15:41<andythenorth>except if there’s an r in the month
15:41<@Alberth>but yeah, just days is enough :)
15:41<andythenorth>it’s enough, until there are 3 variants :P
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but that will allow people to "cheat"
15:42<andythenorth>ho ho
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: also, what problem should that solve?
15:42<@Alberth>imho they're allowed to :)
15:42<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: the switches I need to copy would be simpler
15:42<andythenorth>it’s conceptually easy, just boring to do
15:42<andythenorth>(wrt the correct route)
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>what's so problematic about random switches?
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>also, other switches need var61
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15:44*andythenorth starts on the boring copy-paste-change :P
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and when i said "copy-paste", i actually meant code-generation
15:47<andythenorth>you can write code generators *much* faster than me :P
15:47<andythenorth>my brain is not made that way
15:47<andythenorth>I can only write templates
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>brains rarely are, it seems
15:57<andythenorth>templates are brutally simple, it’s just substitution
15:57<andythenorth>any idiot can do that
15:58*andythenorth removes refit cb from Squid and Iron Horse
16:02<andythenorth>and Road Hog
16:02<@Alberth>aka, "all" :)
16:03<andythenorth>oh yes :)
16:04<andythenorth>I’m already running smoke cb to check for railtype :P
16:04<andythenorth>more shenanigans
16:04<andythenorth>ho ho
16:05<@peter1138>how many varactions do we have left?
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>about 2^31?
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16:15<@planetmaker>STR_SPRITE_ALIGNER_PREVIOUS_TOOLTIP :{BLACK}Proceed to the previous normal sprite, skipping any pseudo/recolour/font sprites and wrapping around at the front
16:15<@planetmaker> <-- so... should the last word now read 'front', 'beginning' or 'start'?
16:18<@Alberth>wrapping around from the first sprite to the end
16:19<@planetmaker>actually... yes. That's clearer imho
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16:21<@Alberth>last seems better to match with first, to me
16:22<@planetmaker>ok, so it be. And vice versa in the other corresponding string :) Nice symmetry then
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>it should also wrap "from last to first"
16:24<Rubidium>s/at the front/to the other end when needed/ ?
16:27<@planetmaker>I like Alberth's solution better tbh
16:30<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r26814 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2014-09-12 20:30:23 UTC)
16:30<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6098]: Wording of tooltip in sprite alignment tool
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17:16<@planetmaker>good night
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18:57<Wolf01>'night all
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 13 00:00:50 2014