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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-09-17

---Logopened Wed Sep 17 00:00:13 2014
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00:49<jA_cOp>Is there a keyboard shortcut to close news popups?
00:51<jA_cOp>I wish cloning a vehicle would make their orders shared :(
00:52<Sylf>hold the ctrl key when you clone vehicles
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01:03<jA_cOp>I've got some tankers who seem unable to traverse a lock. Do they need more space or something?
01:03<jA_cOp>They're just circling in the sea there
01:12<Supercheese>maybe try using a buoy
01:12<Supercheese>can help with routing
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02:39<@Rubidium>jA_cOp: I think the corner is too tight just above the lock
02:42<jA_cOp>They eventually managed to get up when I wasn't looking, but then they got stuck up there :( I think I just need to spam bouys
02:43<jA_cOp>When I get messages about my buses getting old, what's the best way to renew them? I want to preserve the route if possible
02:44<Sylf>There is an autorenew function
02:45<Sylf>You may need to enable it in the advanced setting
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02:57<Supercheese>It is still somewhat disconcerting that advanced settings help strings have no trailing punctuation...
02:58<Supercheese>Even though multi-sentence help strings have punctuation after all earlier sentences
02:58<Supercheese>not a game-breaking deal, of course
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03:18<FLHerne>V453000: The solution to that is
03:40<FLHerne>Well, otherwise it's the Turtle one
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04:36<jA_cOp>Can I somehow delete just a portion of a station without deleting all of it? Like just a bus stop at an airport?
04:39<V453000>press R
04:39<V453000>when you have the station tool topen
04:39<V453000>just a bus stop should be removable by a dynamite simply
04:41<jA_cOp>ah thanks, right, forgot about the bulldozer :P
04:41<jA_cOp>R is a handy shortcut to know
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04:43<unknown8970>anyone on?
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05:10<@peter1138>god damn
05:10<@peter1138>can we change the title game for 1.4.3?
05:10<@peter1138>the current one is WAY TOO FUCKING LOUD
05:11<@peter1138>yeah, and cunts vote for right wing fascists too
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05:26<Eddi|zuHause><jA_cOp> Is there a keyboard shortcut to close news popups? <-- i would have said space bar...
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05:42<__ln__>ave Celestar
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>reached the stars yet?
05:46<Celestar>no, not yet :(
05:46<Celestar>you? :P
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>i have no realistic expectations of doing that :p
05:47<@peter1138>omg celestar
05:47<Celestar>peeta :P
05:47<Celestar>... read the Hunger Games too often I guess
05:49<Celestar>so how is everyone
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05:56<@peter1138>not bad
05:58<Celestar>fine, actually
06:00<Celestar>just no coding :P
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06:03<andythenorth>Pikka: such horse
06:04<andythenorth>such zellepins
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06:13<Eddi|zuHause>i think andy is on a downwards spiral...
06:16<Xaroth|Work>sup Celestar
06:16<Celestar>not much.
06:16<Xaroth|Work>Eddi|zuHause: he's already halfway i think :|
06:16<Celestar>lots of work
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07:45<Pikka>horses for courses
07:46<V453000>hores use horse
07:50<andythenorth>sore horse
07:50<andythenorth>saw horse
07:50<andythenorth>soar horse
07:51<V453000>btw andythenorth , my issue was probably 100% offsets
07:51<V453000>screw them up a bit and they wreck everything to shreds :D
07:51<V453000>friendly fellows
07:52<V453000>admittedly they werent exactly broken "a bit"
07:53*Pikka ponders narrow gauge pineapples. But no, ships! and rails/stations! and houses! and trucks!
07:53<Pikka>and industries! and planes!
07:54<andythenorth>Pikka: mini pineapples
07:55<andythenorth>narrow gauge is compulsory imho
07:55<Pikka>yes, those
07:55<andythenorth>or at least something that isn’t vanilla trains
07:55<Pikka>what of trams?
07:55<andythenorth>not the same
07:55<andythenorth>trams are just early truckses
07:56<Pikka>well, it can go on the list
07:57<V453000>simply put there EVERYTHING
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08:07<b_jonas>Pikka: stations, houses? do you already have terrain like grass and hard grass and stones and similar?
08:07<b_jonas>and trees?
08:07<Pikka>I have pretty crappy grass
08:08<Pikka>that can be improved along the way. and of course I can just use default ground tiles so my tracks / stations / etc can blend in to whatever base set is used
08:10<b_jonas>I see
08:11<andythenorth>also how big should a wine tanker be?
08:11<andythenorth>300k litres?
08:11<Pikka>big enough to hold all the wine
08:11<andythenorth>500k ?
08:11<andythenorth>the sprite I want to use is 500k
08:11<andythenorth>the gameplay size should be 300k
08:11<andythenorth>le sigh
08:12<Pikka>I don't think wine is shipped in tanker ships
08:12<Pikka>isn't there a 300k tanker inna fish also?
08:13<andythenorth>I turned off whine refit for it
08:13<andythenorth>I like edibles tankers
08:16<Pikka>I'll take three
08:16<andythenorth>plenty of wine
08:16<andythenorth>or whine
08:16<andythenorth>or milk
08:16<andythenorth>don’t mix the milk with the wine
08:17<andythenorth>no cider tankers
08:17<lastmikoi>wine... tanker?
08:18<Pikka>wine tanker causes riots, apparently
08:18<Pikka>plz add disaster to OTDD.
08:18<andythenorth>although also
08:18<andythenorth>thatchers diesel
08:19<andythenorth>because it looks like diesel
08:19<lastmikoi>I hope - even though I'm pretty much convinced it does - that metal tank don't alter wine's taster
08:19<lastmikoi>but I feel like storing wine like oil is a bad thing.
08:20<andythenorth>I think for the kind of sauv. blanc shipped in them, it’s probably fine
08:20<andythenorth>these will be 4.99 bottles
08:20<andythenorth>Pikka: good news that you can now drink Thatchers though, eh?
08:21<Pikka>perhaps! I would have thought rekorderlig had the ridiculously-overpriced imported cider market sewn up, though.
08:32<andythenorth>400k litres seems about right
08:32<andythenorth>maybe this one is a realism innit
08:43<@peter1138>that glowing orange drink is cider?
08:43<andythenorth>it may not have reached the north yet
08:43<andythenorth>but yes
08:43<andythenorth>best eaten with cheese
08:43<@peter1138>i'm not north
08:44*andythenorth is sometimes north
08:45<andythenorth>flat cap, whippet
08:46<andythenorth>need a name for this boot
08:46<Pikka>wine tanker?
08:47<andythenorth>preferably named after a sea area or something
08:47<andythenorth>or a river
08:48<Pikka>better than cabbage tree creek
08:49<andythenorth>only slightly
08:49<Pikka>or even little cabbage tree creek
08:50<andythenorth>big and small versions
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08:55<Pikka>horsebuses are bad features
08:55<Pikka>fancy brakes, though
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09:29<djura-san>Hm, i'm not sure if this is a bug or what but when .openttd/save is missing, the game wont create one for you.
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09:55<andythenorth>Pikka: borsehus
09:56<Pikka>more or less
09:58<Pikka>so you want a deck well and a cabin version of this hoverbus?
09:58<Pikka>in 8bpp and pixelly and company colours?
09:58<Pikka>and then maybe a bigger one?
09:59<andythenorth>cabin hoverzep please
09:59<andythenorth>well deck one can go in another roster too
09:59<andythenorth>all the zellepins
09:59<andythenorth>and a bigger one please
09:59<andythenorth>really big one
09:59<Pikka>you already have a deck one, isn't it?
10:01<Pikka> could just buy a real one
10:01<andythenorth>need more donations for that
10:01<andythenorth>currently have donations total of £0
10:02<andythenorth>I would like BHT 130 - Solent Express
10:03<Pikka>someone donated $5 to my paypal account today
10:03<andythenorth>please send it to me on a lorry
10:03<Pikka>so we're on the way
10:03<andythenorth>I could park it outside my office
10:03<andythenorth>there is room on the street
10:03<andythenorth>docks at the end of the road
10:04<andythenorth>currently sprites for this one I have
10:04<andythenorth>but it’s a bit lacking in coffee shops for pax
10:04<Pikka>they go in the containers
10:04<andythenorth>costa is a plague
10:04<andythenorth>they’re even invading tescos
10:04<andythenorth>it’s dreadful
10:05<Pikka>a plague
10:05<Pikka>on both your coffeeshops
10:05<andythenorth>my nice local tesco is being invaded by some horrible chain
10:05<andythenorth>there might even be a roster with no zellepin ships
10:05<Pikka>costa is a coffee thing
10:05<Pikka>I thought they were a cruise ship sinking company
10:06<andythenorth>that too
10:06<Pikka>or the best beard on television
10:07<andythenorth>better than coffee
10:07<Pikka>I wouldn't say that
10:08<Pikka>possibly better than costa coffee
10:08<andythenorth>it’s a plague
10:08<andythenorth>or a plaque
10:08<andythenorth>one of those
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10:10<Pikka>a plank
10:11<andythenorth>a blank
10:12<andythenorth>Pikka: HOVS rides again!
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10:46<DanMacK>Hey all
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10:55<andythenorth>lo DanMacK
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11:18<__ln__>newgrf please:
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11:47<@peter1138>damn, you still need to use quotes around the rcon command? :S
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12:13<andythenorth>is server game?
12:14<@peter1138>limitation disturbs me very sprites
12:14<@peter1138>goes it throw out limitation?
12:15<andythenorth>out window goes it
12:15<andythenorth>bathwater it with
12:17<@peter1138>it's funny because all the answers are wrong, including from the dev...
12:17<@peter1138>oh hey, we missed that post's 10th birthday
12:19<andythenorth>send it a cake
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12:24<Eddi|zuHause>throw a party
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13:38<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> damn, you still need to use quotes around the rcon command? :S <-- i have a patch for that
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26843 /trunk/src/lang (ukrainian.txt welsh.txt) (2014-09-17 17:45:37 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>ukrainian - 25 changes by Strategy
13:45<@DorpsGek>welsh - 8 changes by kazzie
13:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26844 trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqcompiler.cpp (2014-09-17 17:52:50 UTC)
13:52<@DorpsGek>-Fix: clang compile error
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13:58<Wolf01>hi o/
14:05<Wolf01>__ln__, what do you think? (italian weird stuff inside)
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14:22<__ln__>Wolf01: i'm kind of getting the point, but i lack some grammar and vocabulary for figuring out why it is the point.
14:24<Wolf01>in substance the femminism mevement in Italy is not about the parity of genders, but to have more rights, and now some of them are blaming the grammar which looks as it's discriminating the gender
14:25<andythenorth>language is power etc
14:27<__ln__>Wolf01: italy should consider switching to finnish.
14:28<frosch123>you think wales would switch to scottish?
14:33<andythenorth>wales is scottish
14:33<andythenorth>you should know that
14:33<andythenorth>will it be chips?
14:34<andythenorth>or something else
14:34<+michi_cc>Wolf01: Welcome to the GermanInnen language :p
14:34<andythenorth>michi_cc did you see my offer of macs?
14:34<andythenorth>they’re crappy, but I have two that get freecycled or whatever if no ottd dev wants them
14:34<andythenorth>is fonsinchen back yet?
14:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26845 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel (3 files) (2014-09-17 18:35:45 UTC)
14:35<@DorpsGek>-Fix [Squirrel]: more uninitialized variables in constructors
14:35<+michi_cc>A bit pointless if I don't even find time for any kind of proper OTTD development. I have too many unfinished patches and repos around as it is.
14:36<andythenorth>familiar tale :)
14:36*andythenorth only has time for improper development
14:37<andythenorth>but it seems to work
14:40<@peter1138>you can send one to me if you want
14:40<@peter1138>do they exhibit ottd bugs? heh
14:40<andythenorth>they might
14:41<andythenorth>pm me an address in the forums
14:41<andythenorth>they have [spec] it’s not great
14:41<andythenorth>I bet you end up wiping it and putting linux on it :P
14:41<@peter1138>no i have a linux laptop
14:41<@peter1138>although it's old
14:43<andythenorth>don’t think it has any OS disks, but it has clean install on it
14:43<@peter1138>i can presumably do a disk dump to back it up
14:44<andythenorth>usually with this
14:44<@peter1138>or something like dd if=/dev/... of=/path/on/nas :D
14:45<@peter1138>ooh, genesis on the radio, heh
14:45<andythenorth>follow you, follow me
14:45<@peter1138>nah, it's i know what i like
14:45<@peter1138>one of the more proggier ones
14:45<@peter1138>although less proggy than really proggy
14:46<andythenorth>1 mac down, 1 to go
14:46<@peter1138>my main hdd died, along with all my patches
14:46<@peter1138>i had an archive of stuff
14:46<@peter1138>so i have most them
14:47<@peter1138>i ought to watch that again
14:49<andythenorth>everyone here is just someone I work with in disguise
14:49<andythenorth>there are only so many kinds of developer :P
14:50<andythenorth>Peter Gabriel
14:52<@peter1138>i'm not him
14:54<andythenorth>he lives on Solsbury Hill
14:54<andythenorth>or the frontier
14:54<andythenorth>but they’ve come to take him home
14:54<andythenorth>we nearly recorded a film soundtrack in his studio but then we didn’t
14:54<andythenorth>cool story bro
14:55<@peter1138>there is no frontier
14:55<andythenorth>nor spoon
14:55<@peter1138>it is sans frontiers, after all
15:14<@peter1138>frontiers, yes
15:14<@peter1138>i don't have all his catalogue though :(
15:17<andythenorth>I should alias git pish
15:17<andythenorth>I think it’s what they do in scotland on fridays
15:17<andythenorth>they / some people
15:19<Wolf01>how do I remove a caboose when upgrading 100+ trains (any type of cargo)?
15:22<Wolf01>dualheaded steam engines... one head the engine+tender, the other a caboose
15:23<andythenorth>start again
15:23<andythenorth>don’t cabeese
15:23<@peter1138>hmm, is 240MB good for 9 minutes of video?
15:23<andythenorth>replace cabeese to another wagon type
15:23<andythenorth>oh wait, that’s impossible to do ;P
15:23<@peter1138>dvd -> h264
15:24<andythenorth>sounds quite good, who are you emailing it to?
15:24<@peter1138>i'm emailing it to my nas
15:25<@peter1138>hmm, well, the chapter break is at the wrong point :S
15:26<Wolf01>I could just try with a longer engine and hope the wagon removal will remove it
15:27<@peter1138>yeah, i don't know which end removal works from
15:29<fonsinchen>andythenorth, I'm here
15:29<@peter1138>oh, it's not in the wrong place, this dvd isn't episodic, as i thought
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15:31<andythenorth>fonsinchen: I’m giving away macbooks, they’re quite old, 2008 or so, not a great spec, running 10.6.8 - happy to ship you one if you want it
15:31<andythenorth>or say no ;)
15:32<@peter1138>my work laptop is a 2002 model
15:32<@peter1138>oddly enough, it's rather shit
15:33<fonsinchen>Hmm, you'll expect me to fix all the Mac OS bugs if I take it
15:33<fonsinchen>brrrrr ....
15:33<andythenorth>he :)
15:33<andythenorth>there are no OS X bugs that bother me, except the ~ console bug
15:33<andythenorth>michi just fixed one really important one
15:33<andythenorth>the game just works for me :P
15:33<andythenorth>as long as someone maintains the compile
15:34<fonsinchen>On the other hand, you probably can't run anything above 10.7 on that thing
15:35*fonsinchen looks at FlySpray
15:35<andythenorth>yeah, it’s stuck on 10.6.8
15:35<andythenorth>there’s a reason they’re free ;)
15:45<fonsinchen>We actually don't have that many serious OSX specific problems ... FS#6087 , FS#6043 , FS#5889 , FS5812 , FS#5797 (which requires 10.9 to fix), and FS#5100 (which is probably outdated)
15:45<fonsinchen>am I missing anything
15:45<frosch123>michi fixed a lot
15:46<fonsinchen>oh, FS#5694 but we already know that this is the build farm creating broken ICUs
15:48<fonsinchen>andythenorth: OK, I'll take that thing and then I'll have a stab at above bugs.
15:49<andythenorth>fonsinchen: pm me an address in the forums, I’ll ship it to you
15:49<andythenorth>no warranty :)
15:49<andythenorth>you can always put linux on it :P
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15:55<andythenorth>wrong channel, but anyone give me a clue how to pass multiple args to this?
15:55<andythenorth>lessc --modify-var="foo=bar" foo.less
15:55<andythenorth>—modify-var needs multiple vars
15:56<andythenorth>github comment for the tool suggests it’s possible
15:56<andythenorth>I’ve tried spaces, multiple declarations of the arg, separators blah
15:57<andythenorth>this is the commit
15:59<blathijs>andythenorth: Aren't you supposed to just give the option multiple times?
16:00<andythenorth>yeah that works
16:00<andythenorth>I tried it, but my test file had errors
16:00<andythenorth>the compiler was defending me from them, but I misunderstood it :P
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16:15<argoneus>I've got two questions
16:15<argoneus>1, why not freenode? 2, does anyone here understand how the "ctrl click on start date to spread vehicles out" works?
16:16<frosch123>1. been there, came here
16:16<frosch123>2. make sure everything is timetabled, then ctrl+click it once, and wait
16:16<argoneus>what do you mean "everything is timetabled"?
16:16<argoneus>so if I have 40 buses in a city and I want to spread them out
16:17<frosch123>all loading times and all travel tiems
16:17<argoneus>I need to do a separate timetable?
16:17<andythenorth>you can make one
16:17<andythenorth>and then watch it not work
16:17<frosch123>well, the vehicles need to share orders ofc
16:17<argoneus>so basically
16:17<argoneus>first I let one bus roam through the city
16:17<argoneus>and adapt my timetable
16:17<argoneus>and then I ctrl click start date?
16:18<argoneus>and if I want to add even just one new bus
16:18<argoneus>I need to do all this again>?
16:18<andythenorth>I should file a bug report showing that it doesn’t work for ships
16:18<frosch123>well, you do not need to fill the timetable a second time
16:18<frosch123>just ctrl+click start again
16:21<frosch123>you can also start all the busses at once, no need to let one finish the trip first
16:21<frosch123>they will align later after you set the start date
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16:25<argoneus>I ran into a problem
16:26<argoneus>the bus that should be earlier is stuck behind a slower one in the loop
16:26<argoneus>so the one in the front is on time
16:26<argoneus>but the one behind is always late
16:26<argoneus>so they always go together
16:26<frosch123>then ctrl+click again
16:26<argoneus>ctrl click on the first one?
16:26<frosch123>it orders the veihcle relative to their lateness and position
16:26<argoneus>>loop >first one
16:27<frosch123>you can also reset lateness times for busses to change their order
16:27<frosch123>and then ctrl+click starttime again
16:28<frosch123>basically make the busses run somewhat on time and in order, and then use the starttime to align them equidistantr
16:31<argoneus>that works
16:31<argoneus>but whenever they go for maintenance
16:31<argoneus>it screws up again
16:32<frosch123>use forced service
16:32<argoneus>forced service?
16:32<frosch123>then you can timetable the servicing
16:32<argoneus>as in, all will go at the same time?
16:32<argoneus>like that
16:32<frosch123>add the depot to the order list
16:32<argoneus>is there a simple way to do
16:32<frosch123>and make them visit every time, not only when service is needed
16:32<argoneus>"do this circuit 3 times, then go to depot"
16:33<argoneus>if I have a line of 20 stations, I don't really want to copy the orders
16:33<frosch123>you put the depot in the order list like a busstop
16:33<frosch123>why "every 3 times"? just "every time"
16:39<argoneus>it works now
16:39<argoneus>sometimes one or two still bunch up together
16:39<argoneus>also, I need to give it some leeway right
16:39<argoneus>as in, if it says that it takes 35 days to complete
16:39<argoneus>then the start date should be about 40 days away?
16:41<frosch123>yeah, it's complicated to maintain :p
16:41<frosch123>personally i only use half-timetabled shedules
16:42<frosch123>that is, only timetable the loading times, not the travel times
16:42<argoneus>is that viable?
16:42<argoneus>I mean, how does it work for you?
16:42<frosch123>it prevents vehicles from clumping, but is not as fragile as complete timetables
16:43<frosch123>the idea behind it is:
16:43<frosch123>if vehicles are not timetables, the first vehicle to arrive takes all cargo
16:43<frosch123>if it happens that one vehicle arrives just behind it, it will also just leave immediately because there is no cargo to load
16:44<frosch123>enforcing a minimum loading time via a timetable fixes that
16:44<frosch123>the vehicles will not keep an exact distance, but imho that is not particulary important
16:46<argoneus>so basically
16:46<argoneus>all vehicles will wait in a station for the same time
16:47<frosch123>ah, wait, i missed one piece in the puzzle :p
16:47<frosch123>the stations need to be short enough, so only one vehicle can load
16:47<frosch123>so, if they clump up, the second vehicle has to wait before the first one leaves
16:47<frosch123>and then will load for x days until it follows
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16:47<frosch123>so, distance is always at least x days
16:48<frosch123>because the traveling times are not timetabled, it will not adjust the loading time to catch up or anything
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16:48<frosch123>but always do x days
16:49<frosch123>it's kind of like "full load", but with a timespan instead of a loading factor
16:49<argoneus>I'll just try doing autofill
16:49<argoneus>and then I'll ctrl click start date
16:49<argoneus>and if there are minor problems, it should be ok
16:50<frosch123>even if you do autofill, you should always add 1 or 2 days to all loading times
16:50<frosch123>else it has never a chance to catch up, if something slows it
16:50<argoneus>loading or travels?
16:51<frosch123>doesn't matter, i think setting loading is easier, since you can just type the same number everywhere
16:52<argoneus>hm, true
16:52<argoneus>any idea how long it takes for a bus to full load?
16:52<argoneus>assuming there's infinite people in the station
16:52<frosch123>depends on the newgrf :)
16:52<argoneus>I'm using FIRS with cargodist
16:52<argoneus>and opengfx+ road vehicles
16:52<argoneus>not sure if any of those matter
16:53<frosch123>anyway, just try
16:58<argoneus>why didn't anyone tell me passengers were really great
16:58<argoneus>a train network between cities
16:58<argoneus>a few bus stations in each
16:58<argoneus>==== free money and super quick growth
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17:01<@peter1138>some people prefer doing cargo?
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19:58<Eddi|zuHause>< frosch123> even if you do autofill, you should always add 1 or 2 days to all loading times <-- actually what i do is i _shorten_ the waiting time in the middle, and add a big waiting time at the end stations. if the vehicles are 1 tile long, then they will distribute among the loading bays at the end station, and thus can overtake if one is stuck behind another one. this doesn't properly work for 1/2 tile vehicles, as the second one
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>will choose a bay before the first one occupies it, thus is not affected by the penalty
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 18 00:00:15 2014