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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-09-20

---Logopened Sat Sep 20 00:00:18 2014
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00:32<Eddi|zuHause>hm, level crossings are weird...
00:32<Eddi|zuHause>can construct them one way, but not the other...
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00:52<NGC3982>Morning.
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01:02<NGC3982>Is there any good way to measure the network health of my public server?
01:03<NGC3982>I can't seem to see anything wrong with the network i'm on, but i have problems with maintaining connection to my own server.
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03:17<andythenorth>o/
03:19<Pikka>D:
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04:31*NGC3982 loves Kalles Kaviar.
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04:55<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26855 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2014-09-20 08:55:35 UTC)
04:55<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Render vertical scrollbars the same as horizontal scrollbars, with sprites instead of text.
04:56<@planetmaker>\o/
04:57<@peter1138>that is actually to make bigger sprites work, but it also makes opengfx scrollbars not look like arse at the same time
04:57<@planetmaker>yeah, I know :)
04:57<@planetmaker>especially biggui had been a sad thing with those
04:58<@peter1138>Well, I'm testing like this... http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/double.png
04:59<@peter1138>(that scrollbar is pre-that commit)
04:59<@planetmaker>:)
04:59<@planetmaker>nice, so those are auto-scaled gui sprites?
04:59<@peter1138>X button needs to be a sprite instead of text, too
04:59<@planetmaker>yup
05:00<@planetmaker>also the drop-down button. But that's the same sprite as vertical scrollbar, I think?
05:00<@peter1138>here's a trick, they're autoscaled anyway, just only the non-zoomed ones are used
05:00<@peter1138>in src/zoom_type.h ... ZOOM_LVL_GUI =
05:00<@peter1138>change that to 2X instead of 4X and you get a double size ui
05:00<+michi_cc>peter1138: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/openttd.git/shortlog/refs/heads/ui_wip (from many moons ago)
05:00<@peter1138>planetmaker, yes, that's the same. i'm going to sort that too
05:01<@peter1138>michi_cc, :)
05:01<@peter1138>these patches i'm doing are also ancient :)
05:01<@planetmaker>peter1138, so grfs can then define the other zooms and bit depths for sprites, too, yes?
05:01<@planetmaker>so that automatically the correctly-zoomed is chosen?
05:01<@peter1138>planetmaker, yes
05:01<@planetmaker>sweet
05:01<+michi_cc>http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/openttd.git/commitdiff/27e53256f06a6e6cefe7b091a57a43525aaede22 :p
05:01<@peter1138>planetmaker, but it looks like i don't need to write it cos michi_cc's done it
05:02<@planetmaker>:D
05:02<@planetmaker>better continue with it and 'steal' it before there's bit rot again festering on those patches
05:02<@peter1138>although it's from 2012, so may need updating
05:02<@peter1138>hrh
05:03<@peter1138>michi_cc, we at least think the same way :)
05:03<@peter1138>planetmaker, this is one of the reasons why i don't like the big buttons in zbase
05:03<@peter1138>it doesn't... make sense!
05:04<@planetmaker>peter1138, I fully agree
05:04<@planetmaker>re-visiting zbase GUI sprites is definitely on my agenda. But I miss good sprites for the other zoom levels other than 2x (or is it 4x?)
05:05<@peter1138>it has 2x sprites (in the 4x slot)
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05:08<@peter1138>i was actually surprised it worked so well
05:09<@planetmaker>most GUI sprites scaled already. But not all... And then zbase doesn't have 2x sprites everywhere and seems to miss some sprites altogether
05:09<@peter1138>yeah
05:09<@planetmaker>(which then are replaced by its underlaying 8bpp OpenGFX sprites)
05:09<@peter1138>i mean i'm surprised this hack to ZOOM_LVL_GUI worked :)
05:09<@planetmaker>he :)
05:10<@peter1138>i actually remember having it in my mind when i added the extra zoom levels but then did nothing with it, never even tested it
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05:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26856 trunk/src/company_gui.cpp (2014-09-20 09:18:22 UTC)
05:18<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Ensure company face widgets can fit company face.
05:23<fonsinchen>Does anyone have a save game with lots of "refit to available cargo" and other complicated order constructs? I'd like to test a patch and am too lazy to construct the test case myself ;)
05:25<V453000>only refit to specific cargo in depot
05:25*Rubidium doesn't
05:26<@planetmaker>hm, not that I know a savegame with much of that. I mostly refit to specific cargoe
05:29<@peter1138>i've never used a refit order
05:30<@peter1138>Any objections to http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/settings_buttons.diff ?
05:31<@peter1138>makes the expand/collapse buttons, and the frames, match other windows.
05:32<@peter1138>Also allows the button height to match the resize button height
05:33<@peter1138>Hmm, I'm sure I fixed my webserver to serve diffs as plaintext :S
05:35<@peter1138>Hmm, similar issue with the map window, although that doesn't get the outer frames wrong.
05:36<@Rubidium>me likey patchey
05:39<@planetmaker>yeah, +1. I really needed to search to find the collaps and expand buttons. I guess I never used them ;)
05:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r26857 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2014-09-20 09:41:25 UTC)
05:41<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6110]: Reserve cargo after refitting and only if necessary.
05:41<@peter1138>Argh, my mouse is playing up :(
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05:56<Wolf01>hi hi
05:57<@Alberth>moin
05:57<@planetmaker>hi ho
05:58<LordAro>o/
05:58<V453000>what says if an industry dies or not?
05:58<@Alberth>you do
05:59<V453000>but which part of the code
05:59<V453000>my industries seem to have started dying for no reason while being well serviced
05:59<V453000>am wondering what could have changed
05:59<keoz>V453000: industry_cmd.cpp
06:00<V453000>wat
06:00<V453000>I mean newgrf
06:00<V453000>(:
06:00<keoz>in FIRS there's a piece of code defining ndustry closure
06:01<keoz>in src/templates/check_secondary_closure.pnml
06:02<keoz>you might have a look. FIRS only closes secondary industries though. For myself, i recoded some parts of FIRS to have a general closure mechanism. If you want, I can give it to you.
06:03<V453000>I see
06:03<V453000>I think I would do it a bit differently but thats fine
06:03<V453000>where do I actually put the switch?
06:04<@Alberth>planetmaker: default tooltip popup time is a little short isn't it? Also, it broke my right button setting :(
06:05<keoz>V453000: couldn't say. I just was able to modify already parts of FIRS but that's all.
06:05<@Alberth>V453000: your industry nml code page is very good
06:05<V453000>:d thanks :D
06:05<@planetmaker>Alberth, how did it break it? Just set it anew (it's a new setting)
06:05<V453000>yeah, thanks keoz :)
06:05<@peter1138>That reminds me... as oil rigs supposed to "produce" passengers?
06:05<@peter1138>Have passengers, yes of course.
06:06<@Alberth>planetmaker: I had my config to right button, and now it started popping up almost immediately all the time
06:06<@peter1138>"Passenger production at X oil rig increases 100%" feels a bit... odd.
06:06<@Alberth>perhaps you ignored the right button setting?
06:06<@planetmaker>Alberth, but not sure it's too short...
06:07<@planetmaker>Alberth, the old setting value prior to the changeset is ignored. Just set it anew. Or did you after that change?
06:08<keoz>Alberth: if you remember our last discussion: any chance you could reload your savegame where you didn't see the storybook, with the last revision on my script ? I changed some things, the problem might be solved.
06:08<@planetmaker>in case of doubt set the hover time manually to 0 milliseconds
06:09<@Alberth>planetmaker: length of the interval is quite debatable, let's leave that. No I didn't change anything, it started popping up by itself, which seems to correspond with your patch ignoring the previous setting
06:09<@Rubidium>hover time 0 == right click
06:10<@Rubidium>was so in the past and still is so
06:10<@Alberth>Rubidium: yeah, I changed it already, but why wasn't that copied from the previous version?
06:10<@planetmaker>Alberth, if I had re-used the old setting, it would have had a hover time of 1 millisecond - even shorter :)
06:10<@planetmaker>I wanted a better default
06:10<@planetmaker>for all those who have already an openttd.cfg
06:11<@Rubidium>because a new setting was made (and because converting settings in the cfg is a PITA because you go back AND forth between versions as dev)
06:12<@Alberth>planetmaker: copying rmb setting and ignoring default length (which I agree was too small) are two different things I think
06:12<@Alberth>but ok, it's just a single value
06:13<@Alberth>keoz: euhm, right, do you happen to know the filename?
06:13<@peter1138>Didn't I suggest 500ms as a sensible default?
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06:14<@peter1138>Yeah, that feels more normal to me.
06:14<@Alberth>peter1138: for new users it can be useful, they can also change the default if they want
06:15<@peter1138>Yes exactly.
06:15<@peter1138>250ms is a bit short as you say.
06:15<@planetmaker>peter1138, Alberth everyone suggests another length...
06:16<@peter1138>planetmaker, I always suggested 500ms :p
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06:16<@peter1138>And that is at least a default that many systems use.
06:16<@planetmaker>I've no passion really about the default value. If you feel that 500 is a better one, be my guest and change it :)
06:16<@Alberth>I am not a good judge of interval length, I turn these things off very quickly, as they get in the way, hiding stuff I want to see
06:17<keoz>Alberth: Lunnpool_Bridge_Transport_1881-04-29.sav and the new revision is available here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=69827&p=1131905#p1131905
06:17<keoz>If you have not the savegame anymore, I still have it.
06:17<@planetmaker>I chose it on the short end, so that new users see it and find it. Users who know it, know how to adjust the length. That was my reasoning
06:17<@planetmaker>I've seen more than one request why there aren't tooltips...
06:17<@Alberth>keoz: thanks. I do have a policy of not changing scripts etc mid-game, but I'll make an exception :)
06:18<@Alberth>planetmaker: 2 seconds is too long, I think we all agree on that :)
06:18<keoz>Alberth: thank you :)
06:20<@peter1138>planetmaker, at 250ms, I get tooltips appearing a lot, as it's near the interval where precise positioning happens for me. 500ms reduces that tooltip-spam massively
06:21<@peter1138>(and that's with big fonts and big buttons :))
06:21<@planetmaker>and if the majority here thinks the 250ms is too short... as said, I honestly don't mind. Lool, peter1138 :)
06:21<@peter1138>(Sure, I'm old!)
06:21<@planetmaker>pfft!
06:23<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26858 /trunk/src (settings_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.cpp) (2014-09-20 10:23:38 UTC)
06:23<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Rearrange smallmap filter and settings expand/collapse buttons to fix frame borders and allow buttons to fit height of resize button.
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06:55<@Alberth>keoz: seems to work
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06:58<@Alberth>you may want to put the precise version in some document, it's hard to find out what you're using exactly
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07:18<keoz>thank you Alberth. Yes you're right, I'll search a way to do that?.
07:18<@Alberth>you may want to look how it's done in a newgrf project
07:19<@Alberth>the makefile does some magic there with finding the revision, and inserting it in text
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07:33<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26859 trunk/src/town_gui.cpp (2014-09-20 11:32:54 UTC)
07:33<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6119]: Height computation of game script text in town GUI did not consider margins.
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07:57<Eddi|zuHause2>uhm weird... my computer just froze...
07:57<frosch123>mine did as well, then i killed grfcodec and pulled an update
07:58<Eddi|zuHause2>no, like not even ctrl+alt+f1 or ctrl+alt+backspace worked
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08:00<frosch123>renice the "wolfi" process
08:01<@peter1138>oops
08:01<@peter1138>just deafened myself loading up 1.4.3 :S
08:01<@peter1138>err
08:01<@peter1138>1.4.2
08:01<Pikka>pardon?
08:01<Pikka>who plays (O)TTD with the sound on anyway?
08:01<V453000>^
08:01<V453000>says the one who puts custom sounds in newgrfs XD
08:01<frosch123>exactly
08:02<Pikka>doesn't mean I want to listen to them :D
08:02<V453000>:)
08:02<frosch123>peter1138: you can disable various sound effects in advanced settings btw
08:02<@peter1138>i do have sounds on, but even if i didn't, i can't turn them off from the intro game
08:03<V453000>peter1138: system sound :P
08:03<frosch123>bu
08:03<@peter1138>and it's kind of awkward for new people too
08:03<frosch123>but -s null -m null is the best anyway
08:03<V453000>holy fuck sound effects setting
08:03<V453000>didnt know about that
08:03<V453000>nice :D
08:03<V453000>news ticker can fuck off now
08:03<frosch123>:p
08:04<Pikka>if you turn the sounds effects down/off in a game, that stays put for the titlegame too, and on future loading...
08:04<V453000>except I am probably never going to use sounds again
08:04<frosch123>V453000: i think there was a specific setting for the ticker sound since 0.3
08:04<V453000>:0
08:05<frosch123>but nice that you found it :) maybe the settings are arranged better today after all
08:05<V453000>no I wrote sound in the filter XD
08:05<V453000>didnt even try to find it
08:06<@peter1138>yeah that filter is a godsend
08:06<frosch123>well, the setting was in the news settings window before :p
08:06<V453000>but really, where else to find it than interface
08:06<V453000>well you could disable them but they would still make sounds?
08:06<V453000>no
08:06<V453000>you would disable news entirely
08:07<V453000>then they would obviously not do the sound
08:07<V453000>if I understand it right, now you can see the news but they make no sound
08:08<frosch123>https://wiki.openttd.org/Message_settings <- see the screenshot
08:08<frosch123>it was there, if you found it :)
08:08<V453000>O_O
08:08<V453000>:D
08:08<V453000>if you found is apparently 0 for me
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08:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26860 trunk/src/terraform_cmd.cpp (2014-09-20 12:11:15 UTC)
08:11<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: improve worst case performance of terraforming (O(n^2) -> O(n log n)) and let memory usage scale to the amount of tiles affected instead of allocating memory for the worst case scenario (patch by ic111)
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>the ticker is bad anyway, it blocks real news from popping up
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium breaking patches again?
08:13<@Rubidium>yup
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>if you're done with mhl, i'm sure the new map features provides a decent source for breaking patches :p
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08:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26861 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2014-09-20 12:25:36 UTC)
08:25<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Include height of dropdown image in dropdown widget. Draw vertically centred image in dropdown button.
08:27<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26862 trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp (2014-09-20 12:27:09 UTC)
08:27<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Don't shrink widget size in new game window.
08:31<Wolf01>peter1138, as you are playing with the UI, do you think a setting to double the size of any widget could work (a sort of "enable touch screen / big gui" setting)?
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08:35<@peter1138>Wolf01, michi_cc has a patch for that...
08:36<@peter1138>Hmm, the tiny cargo sprites are kinda big at 2x :p
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09:06<@peter1138>errr
09:06<@peter1138>silly
09:06<@peter1138>making patches, testing, ended up playing a savegame instead :S
09:07<Wolf01>at least you test it :P
09:08<Pikka>http://i.imgur.com/0IddJV8.png
09:08<Pikka>@ V453000 et al
09:09<Pikka>"34,854"?
09:09<V453000>interesting
09:11*andythenorth_ out doing trains again
09:11<Pikka>fun times
09:11*Pikka in doing trains
09:11<Pikka>and possibly hoverbunnies
09:12<andythenorth_>Standing in a queue for balloons for twenty minutes
09:12<V453000>does it even mean amount of cargo?
09:12<V453000>idk about subsidies
09:12<andythenorth_>Yak shaving
09:12<Pikka>I don't think so
09:14<andythenorth_>String issues
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09:18<@peter1138>You've got a string code in a string that shouldn't have it
09:19<Pikka>oh, those string issues
09:19<Pikka>I thought he was talking about balloons
09:24<V453000>(:
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09:56<Wolf01>lol, 10 days/s with fast forward on the new pc
09:57<Wolf01>steam trains look like maglev
09:57<@Rubidium>slow pc
09:57<@Rubidium>FS#6117 is complaining about month/second
10:00<Wolf01>ok, got rid of those (now) useless cabeese
10:06<@peter1138>Damn that STR_SILVER_CROSS
10:07<@Rubidium>is it exported to NewGRFs?
10:07<@peter1138>?
10:07<@Rubidium>if not, then you can easily just refer to the sprite and remove the string code of it, right?
10:08<@peter1138>it's got a colour remap, which works because it's text
10:08<@peter1138>complete with a shadow
10:08<@peter1138>so to draw the sprite directly means i'd need to set up a remap, one for black and one for silver
10:09<@peter1138>not impossible but slightly more of a pain than just switching to drawsprite
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10:25<frosch123>it's just used in the newspaper?
10:25<frosch123>make it black instead? :p
10:27<@peter1138>yes, just there. on a white background, no less!
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>lmao, the people tilt on a hig slope :p
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>*high
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>or better "steep"
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10:59<@peter1138>hmm, turns out an audio cable works better when... it's plugged in
10:59<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause?
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>?
10:59<@peter1138>slope?
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>in train fever
10:59<@peter1138>ah
11:00<Pikka>drain fewer
11:00<Pikka>is it a great game or what?
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>it's sort of alright. the graphics are amazing, the logic is a bit lacking, and the UI is a bit fiddly at times
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>and one of the music titles sounds liḱe a mashup of TTD music :p
11:10<Pikka>hmm, mashups of TTD music
11:11*Pikka wants the new soundtrack from the mobile Transport Tycoon.
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11:21<@peter1138>hmm, guess i need to sort out the settings window
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11:26<Supercheese>If you have the .apk for the new transport tycoon you can just extract the music from it. The quality is kinda eh, but it's there
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>uhm... it's sort of impossible to doubletrack a diagonal bridge...
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11:30<frosch123>what is diagonal?
11:30<frosch123>isn't it all freeform?
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>angled compared to the river
11:31<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26863 /trunk/src (11 files in 2 dirs) (2014-09-20 15:31:26 UTC)
11:31<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: move a number of Vehicle* functions into the Vehicle class
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>no matter which side you start on, at some point it complains that it can't terraform the river, because on the other side it started the bridge too late
11:32<frosch123>can't you define the start manually?
11:33<frosch123>the bridge has to start somewhat away from the river
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11:37<Eddi|zuHause>http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Bildschirmfoto27.png <-- the white area is where it automatically builds a dam instead of a bridge, this cannot be influenced manually.
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>and the second track tries to make a dam up to that point, but fails because it would cover the river
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>and if i try to build the other track first, the problem is symmetric on the other side
11:43<@Rubidium>just single track the bridge ;)
11:43<@peter1138>hmm, maybe depot windows should just use ZOOM_LVL_4X instead of ZOOM_LVL_GUI
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: that mounds fun on a main track :p
11:45<@Rubidium>but... it's realistic ;)
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11:46<@Rubidium>we got a bit of 4 wide track, then a 2 track wide bridge and after that back to 4 wide... yay
11:46<Wolf01>couldn't you divide the tracks near the river and build 2 bridges slightly more distant from each other?
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>like a highway that stops, gets narrow, makes a detour around a field, and then comes back to being a highway :p
11:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26864 /trunk (14 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-20 15:46:44 UTC)
11:46<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: bring a bit more OO into the disaster vehicles
11:47<@peter1138>Oooo!
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: yeah. i'm trying to do that, but it's tricky because it snaps to being double track easily
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>and can't have narrow curve radius because of speed limit
11:47<Pikka>Supercheese, no apples or rooted androids, unfortunately.
11:47<Wolf01>and if you start from the bridges and then connect them to the tracks?
11:48<Supercheese>Pikka: Well you could always, y'know...
11:49<Pikka>hanging out for a high-quality soundtrack, the bits on soundcloud are good. :)
11:54<Pikka>and could I?
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11:55<Supercheese>ah yes, Soundcloud stuffs were quite excellent
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12:05<@peter1138>how... do i get this separation lark to work? :S
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12:42<@peter1138>gfx_func.h:#define FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL (GetCharacterHeight(FS_NORMAL))
12:42<@peter1138>yikes :p
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13:36<andythenorth>o/
13:40<@peter1138>\ \o
13:40<Pikka>yarr
13:41<Pikka>andythenorth, 16 ships
13:41<Pikka>I did a reappraisal based on the fact that I now have these hoverzellepins
13:45<andythenorth>is 16 more or less?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26865 trunk/src/lang/welsh.txt (2014-09-20 17:45:14 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>welsh - 11 changes by kazzie
13:45<Pikka>more IDs, fewer boats. changing graphics is an etc etc.
13:46<andythenorth>hoverzellepins are a bad feature
13:46<andythenorth>but I think they’re inevitable
13:46<Pikka>small ones are alright
13:46<Pikka>SRN4s are a bad feature, but I might just be saying that to get out of modelling it :D
13:46<andythenorth>ha
13:53<V453000>nice models Pikka :)
13:54<Supercheese>It's funny, the most recent 'zeppelin'-style airship currently in flight testing uses hovercraft-pads as landing gear
13:54<Supercheese>so it is a hoverzeppelin zeppelin
13:54<andythenorth>horse drawn
13:55<andythenorth>we should fix the game for horses
13:56<Pikka>just make the horses go 80 mph
13:56<Pikka>fixed
13:56<andythenorth>jet powered
13:56<andythenorth>considered it
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13:57<andythenorth>https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yRofzlNEHhY/UWxqznhxkfI/AAAAAAAAAy4/6xSjMpkWXzo/s500/Photo%252520Apr%25252012%25252C%2525202013%25252C%2525208%25253A10%252520AM.jpg
13:57<andythenorth>Pikka: will your horse-wagons be non-articulated?
13:57<andythenorth>o_O
13:57<Supercheese>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2clnsFvFOs (ignore the dumb music)
13:58<Pikka>which horse-wagons, andythenorth?
13:58<Pikka>the 80mph ones?
13:58<andythenorth>yes
13:58<Pikka>I don't see why not
13:58<andythenorth>YOU MUST USE SEMIS
13:59<Pikka>semi-tralier ships
13:59<Pikka>so I look at these ferries
13:59<Pikka>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/North_Stradbroke_Island_Vehicle_Barges.jpg
14:00<Pikka>and I think... nah.
14:00<@Alberth>shouldn't the jet and the horse swap places?
14:02<andythenorth>I like the ugly blue ship
14:02<andythenorth>but yeah
14:02<andythenorth>also you’d have to load them with cars
14:02<andythenorth>boring
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14:17<andythenorth>such readme
14:18<andythenorth>it’s kind of boring if the docs give too much info, right?
14:19<Pikka>pertinent info, or random info?
14:19<Pikka>it's better to have answer the question in the readme than be asked it 40 times, but then you have to ask whether the kind of person who can't figure these things out reads readmes anyway. :)
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14:19<Pikka>*have answered
14:20<Japa>Is there a way currently to import rivers and/or trees from an image?
14:20<Pikka>I don't think so, sounds like a fun project though :D
14:20<andythenorth>Pikka: stuff like stats of the vehicles
14:21<andythenorth>intro date, yes. Speed, capacity, power, not so much
14:21<Pikka>fairly pointless I'd have thought, since they're all displayed in the game
14:21<Pikka>intro date perhaps
14:23<b_jonas>argh, only two squares in this oil rig actually accept oil
14:23<b_jonas>um
14:23<b_jonas>oil refinery
14:24<b_jonas>I meant oil refinery
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14:33<@peter1138>That's normal
14:33<V453000>Pikka: even if you write things everywhere, put there images, explain to people personally over and over again, there is still going to be vast majority who will either 1. ask you about it because they do not understand/know it, or 2. ask you about it because they read it and have questions about it
14:34<V453000>there is no escape :D
14:34<@Alberth>you forgot "ask because they think it's faster and simpler than reading" :)
14:42<b_jonas>gtfo, I'm a big oil company, I don't have to respect your stupid local rules, town!
14:42<@peter1138>No, you just transport it. Not quite the same.
14:45<b_jonas>I need a water tunnel here
14:46<b_jonas>I transport their passengers, but their town is not growing.
14:52<b_jonas>wait, does an unsuccessful bribe really set the town rating to -50, which is enough to build a station? then I'll bribe
14:54<b_jonas>hmm no
14:54<b_jonas>it doesn't increase the rating
14:54<b_jonas>still, it doesn't decrease it either, so I don't have much to lose
14:58<@Alberth>o/
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15:12<Pikka>frosch123, andythenorth; so the plan is to eventually use effects for ship wakes, etc? :)
15:12<andythenorth>it is? o_O
15:13<Pikka>isn't it? :D
15:13<Pikka>custom effect vehicles, and all that? :)
15:14<Pikka>in any case, I'm not having any animated wakes or water effects in my set - the extra sprite sets needed would blow out the newgrf size massively. so if the ships are going to have "nice" wakes instead of just floating over the water, that will be the only way it could happen. :)
15:15<frosch123>Pikka: almost, the goal is to have coloured smoke and nyan rainbows in nuts
15:16<frosch123>(maybe V does not know about it yet, though)
15:16<b_jonas>but how would you ensure the wake is always on water, not on land?
15:17<Pikka>the boat generates it where the boat is
15:17<Pikka>so assuming the boat is on water...
15:17<frosch123>the same way as it is ensured that the ship is always on water
15:17<frosch123>have you ever seen a ship on land in ttd? :p
15:17<Pikka>frosch123, feature request for hovercraft
15:17<frosch123>already done
15:18<b_jonas>frosch123: yes, I've seen large ships partly overlapping land
15:18<frosch123>b_jonas: fix your irony detector
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15:58<andythenorth>Pikka: wondering if I can use that hoverzep for the 400pax version
15:58<andythenorth>it’s hit max width for | views at current size
15:59<Pikka>hoverzeps are wide, though...
15:59<andythenorth>yup
15:59<Pikka>I mean, you could use it for that if you wanted. Or I could do a bigger one and it can be "too wide" :)
15:59<andythenorth>too wide clips the docks
15:59<andythenorth>locks / docks /
15:59<andythenorth>been there, done that :)
16:00<andythenorth>does the render magic downscale more?
16:00<Pikka>I thought one of your problems with the existing graphics was that it was too small? :)
16:00*andythenorth looks
16:01<andythenorth>so I have the ogfx sprite for the 400pax thing
16:01<andythenorth>and that is too small
16:01<andythenorth>it’s same width as the landing craft zep I drew
16:01<Pikka>isn't it bigger than the new one? :D
16:01<andythenorth>nah
16:01<andythenorth>hang on
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16:02<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6584/ogfx_zep.png
16:03<Pikka>hmm.. well, for the SRN4ish one, I was planning to make it pretty much a whole tile wide
16:03<Pikka>so that's definitely going to clip stuff
16:03<Pikka>might be worth it, though? :D
16:03<andythenorth>yair, they stick out the side of locks
16:03<andythenorth>up to you :)
16:03<andythenorth>also depots
16:03<Pikka>lol
16:03<Pikka>well it's up to you, since I'd only be doing it for FISH
16:04<Pikka>I'm sticking to small hovercraft only for mine :)
16:04<andythenorth>he :)
16:04<andythenorth>I’ll figure something out
16:05<andythenorth>I’m not too bothered about SRN 4 being an SRN 4
16:05<andythenorth>also, biab
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16:42<b_jonas>wait, so more squares provide goods than accept oil?
16:42<b_jonas>ooh
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16:44<Supercheese>All industry tiles produce, while not all may accept
16:45<Pikka>actually, no industry tiles produce
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16:45<Pikka>the industry produces ;)
16:45<Supercheese>"supply", then :P
16:51<Supercheese>Uuuuugh, so many strings to translate
16:52<Supercheese>although fewer than Wesnoth it seems...
16:54<@Rubidium>Supercheese: only 26 thousand
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>over nine thousand?
16:56<Supercheese>Wesnoth is crazy: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/index.lang.php?version=master&package=&lang=la
16:56<Supercheese>59023 strings or so it claims
16:57<@Rubidium>that's unfair
16:58<@Rubidium>it counts all equivalents of NewGRFs and (game) scripts as well
16:58<Supercheese>yeah, no effort is being made to translate those it seems
16:59<@Rubidium>still about 11k for the first section
16:59<Supercheese>Still, once I finish main OTTD I would like to tackle the stuff available on eints
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16:59<@Rubidium>oh... official core packages is only 4535
17:00<Supercheese>10689 strings in that upper section by my reckoning
17:00<@Rubidium>and only 53 languages
17:00<frosch123>Rubidium: the first section also contains the "official" scenarios or so
17:01<Supercheese>vs. 4103 for OTTD
17:01<@Rubidium>@calc 53*4535 - 61*4103
17:01<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: -9928
17:01<frosch123>scenarios in ottd do not have enough text :p
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>(steam:5353): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: Trying to remove a child that doesn't believe we're it's parent. <-- that sounds creepy
17:01<@Rubidium>we got more strings in official packages! ;)
17:01<Supercheese>also, its*
17:02<@Rubidium>yup.. definitely creepy that that kind of strings get through QA at steam
17:02<Supercheese>not that that changes creepiness
17:03*peter1138 grumbles at bunching up trains
17:03<andythenorth>http://i.imgur.com/MMtWaIK.png
17:04<Pikka>splendid
17:05<Pikka>andythenorth, I've got a car ferry srn4esque hoverzeppelin going here that's not much bigger, footprintwise, than the little one
17:05<Pikka>just taller and bulkier
17:05<andythenorth>is it sprites to see yet?
17:05<Pikka>not yet
17:05<andythenorth>sounds awesome
17:06<Pikka>http://i.imgur.com/4H8O4QR.png
17:07<andythenorth>nice
17:09<andythenorth>moar distorted proportions
17:09<andythenorth>squid is still too realisms
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17:11<andythenorth>also the \ views are as long as - views
17:11<andythenorth>can’t be right
17:12<Supercheese>must be left
17:12<@peter1138>shocking behaviour
17:13<andythenorth>I am shocked
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>SHOCKED!
17:15*peter1138 removes 240v from andythenorth
17:15<FLHerne>andythenorth: How about LARC-Vs, as used by Searles?
17:16<FLHerne>They want to run a regular ferry service across the Wash with them from next year, apparently
17:16<andythenorth>what does it do?
17:16<FLHerne>Looks like a small ship/mid-sized boat with 4 wheels on. Can carry 3 cars or 30-odd pax
17:16<FLHerne>Has a ramp on one end
17:17<Pikka>3 cars?
17:17<FLHerne>Loads up at the promenade, trundles off down the beach, across and up the other side. Functionally equivalent to a really slow hovercraft
17:17<Pikka>have to be pretty small cars...
17:18<andythenorth>RC cars
17:19<FLHerne>Pikka: I'm sure that was what I read in an article about the Skeggie trip
17:19*FLHerne looks for it
17:19<andythenorth>amphibious boat
17:19<andythenorth>also avoid Skeg
17:19<Pikka>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/LARC_V_vehicle.JPEG
17:20<Supercheese>It's rather small
17:20<Pikka>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/LARC-V_%28Iceland_-_Jokulsarlon_5%29.jpg
17:20<Pikka>too small for TTD
17:20<Pikka>too amphibious, too
17:20<Supercheese>also impossible, yes that
17:21<Supercheese>barring some extreme wizardry
17:24<FLHerne>Hmm, do I have my models right? Those ones are smaller than the one I'm thinking of
17:24<FLHerne>Which is a 60-seater, per their site
17:25<FLHerne>Oh, apparently they only took one car, but think they could do 2 at a time for scheduled services
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17:34<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LARC-LX
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17:39<FLHerne>Looking at LARC types, I think it's a pair of LARC-XVs that Searles has right now
17:39<FLHerne>LX might be more use as a TTD type, though-
17:40<FLHerne>And I assume they must be looking at one for the Skeggie run, because a LARC-XV just isn't big enough for their claimed plans
17:40<Supercheese>But it'd be just another boat
17:40<Supercheese>can't make it go on land
17:42<FLHerne>That also goes for the hovercraft
17:45<Supercheese>The hoverzeppelins have the advantage of being rather fast over water
17:45<Supercheese>this LARC thingy, not so
17:48<andythenorth>larcapin
17:48<andythenorth>also bye
17:48<andythenorth>tomorrow, Swindon
17:48<andythenorth>what larks etc
17:48<Pikka>bye also
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17:50<FLHerne>Supercheese: LARCs have the advantage of being painfully slow on water, does that count?
17:54<Supercheese>Does it have the LCARS user interface? :P
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18:16<frosch123>night
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18:20<Wolf01>'night
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20:00<Eddi|zuHause>this feels like ECS... one traffic jam and all your production multipliers "go fluting"
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>i used to make 2M per year, now i don't...
20:18<Supercheese>sounds like a nasty infection of... train fever
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21:40<Supercheese>No zeppelins in train fever eh
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 21 00:00:19 2014