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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-09-22

---Logopened Mon Sep 22 00:00:21 2014
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02:00<andythenorth>SBB set o_O
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02:13<liq3>andythenorth: SBB?
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02:30<@peter1138>Uh... blind users?
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02:35<Supercheese>Seems like peter1138 found:
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02:43<Supercheese>some odd stuff going on here in the Content Download window: "This is a replacement for an existing Base graphics"
02:43<Supercheese>it works fine for most things ("This is a replacement for an existing NewGRF/AI")
02:43<Supercheese>but base sets have odd wording
02:44<Supercheese>perhaps it should be reworded to "Base graphics set"?
02:44<@planetmaker>sounds like, yes
02:44<Supercheese>oh wait that string is used elsewhere, hmmm
02:44<Supercheese>same string as in the actual content type column
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02:45<Supercheese>better check source...
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02:50<Supercheese>Yeah hmm wouldn't work well to just change the offending strings
02:50<Supercheese>at least aesthetically, it would further widen the Type column in the content download window
02:51<@peter1138>Where do you see the text "this is a replacement"?
02:52<Supercheese>ok, steps to reproduce: 1) Have an old version of something (AI/grf/etc) downloaded
02:52<Supercheese>preferably previously via Bananas
02:52<@peter1138>Ah, okay
02:52<Supercheese>2) Check content downloading
02:52<@peter1138>Understood :)
02:52<Supercheese>and yeah you get the rest
02:53<Supercheese>STR_CONTENT_DETAIL_UPDATE :{SILVER}This is a replacement for an existing {STRING}
02:53<Supercheese>it pulls the {STRING} from STR_CONTENT_TYPE_BASE_GRAPHICS et al.
02:54<Supercheese>so perhaps the detail update string should be reworded, lemme think
02:56<Supercheese>"This is a replacement for an existing {STRING} file" might work, or can things be more than one file?
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02:57<@planetmaker>well, yes. You can unpack the archives you download from bananas
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02:57<@planetmaker>then it contains grf(s) and documentations. Or an AI usually has several nut files
02:58<Supercheese>"This is a replacement for an existing {STRING} package" has the inverse problem, what if the thing is only a single file
02:59<Supercheese>although it is automatically .tar'd is it not?
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02:59*peter1138 ponders these button sizes
03:00<Supercheese>they are a bit vertically challenged
03:00<@planetmaker>Supercheese, not automatically. But if you use bananas, then yes
03:00*Supercheese wouldn't mind a taller set of buttons
03:00<Supercheese>andythenorth: Content download window
03:00<@planetmaker>and even a single file can be considered a package. That way it works better (I think)
03:00<Supercheese>"This is a replacement for an existing {STRING} package" would alleviate the awkward grammar methinks
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03:00<@peter1138>andythenorth, same as yesterday :)
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03:00-!-mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ
03:00-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on @#openttd #/r/openttd #openttdcoop.bots @+#openttdcoop +#openDune #oftc #freerct #debian @+#openttdcoop.stable @+#openttdcoop.nightly #openttdcoop.devzone
03:00<@peter1138>But, pixel-perfect-wise... Hmm...
03:01<Supercheese>although it still has some odd capitalization
03:01<@peter1138>They're 66 pixels, which is 64 + 2 for the lines. But the sprites sometimes overlap, so they overlap even more at 2x.
03:02<Supercheese>"This is a replacement for an existing Game script" odd to have the capital floating there
03:02<Supercheese>minor issues
03:29<andythenorth>maybe this set needs *more* vehicles not fewer
03:29<andythenorth>how odd
03:35<Supercheese>Maybe it needs Moor vehicles, i.e. camels
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03:37<andythenorth>anyone tried SBB set yet?
03:38*Supercheese has not
03:40<Supercheese>Apparently the author recommends Squid/FISH, CHIPS, FIRS and HEQS
03:41<Supercheese>along with many other grfs, of course
03:41<@peter1138>Not exactly exhaustive.
03:42<andythenorth>I should finish the Blue Danube roster for Squid :P
03:42<andythenorth>moar river boats
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04:01<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26906 /trunk/src (5 files) (2014-09-22 08:01:25 UTC)
04:01<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Scale depot and station picker buttons by GUI zoom level.
04:02<@peter1138>don't go getting ideas
04:02<@peter1138>like this
04:18<V453000>fitting to the setting though
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04:20<@peter1138>if you had a high-dpi screen, it'd be handy
04:20<@peter1138>(and if your graphics set includes zoomed in sprites, they get used)
04:22<V453000>well I am a bit sceptical to why even have a high dpi screen
04:24<@peter1138>Also... why the fuck does zBase use alpha for tile edges?
04:25<V453000>because it requires serious lot of work to get them away from there
04:25<V453000>they got that way from the render
04:25<@peter1138>Just a mask.
04:25<V453000>but what mask
04:25<Supercheese>Majora's Mask
04:25<V453000>creating the precise pixel mask isnt easy, I tried
04:25<V453000>tiles dont seem to want to come together well
04:26<V453000>(I have everything working "fine", but getting all combinations to fit together perfectly seems impossible)
04:26<V453000>other than that Zephyris probably simply wanted quantity and to get the thing done somehow
04:26<V453000>it proved the concept. :)
04:26<@peter1138>And that's why it glitches all over the place
04:27<@peter1138>And then things are the wrong size
04:27<@peter1138>I know, I know, I haven't done any better :p
04:28<V453000>yayz :P
04:28<V453000>me neither yet
04:35<@peter1138>i seem to remember starting something with sketchup, haha
04:36<Supercheese>Sketchup is nice, much easier to use than blender or 3ds max :P
04:36<Supercheese>it can render stuffs well enough for some purposes
04:36<@peter1138>rendering options limited though
04:37*Supercheese uses it on occasion for rendering Newgrf sprites
04:37<Supercheese>wouldn't do anything remotely close to Yetis though
04:37<@peter1138>also it only runs on toy OSes
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04:38<Supercheese>It's like Sketchup is to blender/3ds max as GRFmaker is to raw NFO
04:38<Supercheese>although I've never actually used GRFmaker to validate that analogy
04:38<V453000>you can actually get nice stuff from sketchup with Vray :P
04:40<@peter1138>If only there was a linux port :(
04:40<@peter1138>I tried it under wine once, no go.
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04:41<V453000>go blender go :P
04:41<@peter1138>Blender is too hard for my brane
04:42<Supercheese>The mind blends
04:42<Supercheese>forget boggling
04:42<@peter1138>I have tried. Every time I need to look up the keystrokes...
04:43<Supercheese>Sketchup UI vs. Blender UI is like Windows 7 vs. DOS
04:43<Supercheese>ok maybe not quite but that's the idea
04:45<V453000>blender UI LOOKS nice
04:45<V453000>but using it felt like hell to me too
04:45<V453000>didnt get very far either
04:45<Supercheese>they are both GUIs, so my analogy was poor
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04:46<Supercheese>but if anything needs a dose of Saint Exupery, methinks it's Blender
04:48*Supercheese still has no idea how to translate "block signal"
04:48<V453000>dafuk with SE
04:48<Supercheese>it's referring to his quote, "perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away"
04:49<Supercheese>made famous by Civilization 4, among other references
04:49<Supercheese>andy's been on an SE kick
04:49<Supercheese>(stupid apostrophe and enter keys' proximity)
04:49<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i've ever heard that quote before civ4
04:50<Supercheese>well, someone had to have translated it from French first :P
04:50<Eddi|zuHause>and every kid knows saint-exupéry
04:50<Eddi|zuHause>(well, almost)
04:51<Supercheese>insofar as they know of any French aviator, I suppose
04:51<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think even many adults know that...
04:52<Supercheese>I ended up looking up any quotee from Civ4 that I did not know about
04:53<Supercheese>except the ones voiced by Sid, ugh he was horrible compared to Nimoy
04:53<Eddi|zuHause>that obviously doesn't apply to the german translation
04:54<Supercheese>and accompanying voiceover I presume
04:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the voiceover is translated as well
04:56<V453000>now I get it Supercheese
04:56<V453000>andy removed all of this vehicles?
04:56<V453000>perfect grf?
04:56<V453000>or something like that? :P
04:57<Supercheese>pretty much aye
04:57<Supercheese>also Av8/UKRS had the same treatment
04:58<V453000>well on the bright side, realizing trains with bad stats are useless, is valid
04:58<V453000>but I would have instead attempted to give them a use to use the sprites
04:58<V453000>up to them :)
04:59<Supercheese>Yeah, the argument "inclusion for inclusion's sake"/"it existed IRL so it should be in the grf" isn't the strongest
04:59<Supercheese>although I am all for more content for more content's sake, the line does need to be drawn somewhere
04:59<V453000>well yeah
05:00*Supercheese should sleep
05:00<V453000>I would just say that necessarily removing vehicles is not making a newGRF better even if they are useless .. easier to read, perhaps. But making new use for new vehicles or the current ones, is improvement
05:00<V453000>kay :P
05:05<Eddi|zuHause>wtf.... even V is more agreeing on the open-ended V-scale of opposing opinions than andy :p
05:17<andythenorth>Supercheese: yeah, that quote
05:17<andythenorth>I don’t know when I heard it, but probably 20 years ago or so
05:17<andythenorth>at least
05:17<andythenorth>maybe in connection with editing books or films
05:17<@peter1138>I don't think that quote applies to newgrfs :p
05:17<andythenorth>newgrfs aren’t perfectible
05:18<@peter1138>10cc is rather boring compared to UKRS
05:18<andythenorth>they don’t stand alone like a book or a film
05:18<V453000>it does in a way peter1138, but that doesnt mean to take away things, but to make things un-takeaway-able :D
05:18<andythenorth>newgrfs fit into a bigger thing
05:18<@peter1138>V453000, right
05:19<andythenorth>V453000: eddi said he thinks you are more sane than me
05:19<V453000>that is what I thought and why I dont get it
05:20<andythenorth>it is intriguing
05:20<@peter1138>hmm, 10cc has 20 engines in total
05:21<@peter1138>ukrs2 has 24 steam engines
05:21<@peter1138>54 engines in total
05:22<andythenorth>turn on the extras
05:22<andythenorth>and the extended set
05:22<andythenorth>that’s what got pikka started on minimals
05:22<andythenorth>or AV8 maybe
05:24<andythenorth>Iron Horse has 28 engines, and it will get some optional horse-maglevs
05:25<V453000>horse maglevs sounds good
05:25<V453000>you are one step to enlightenment with iron slugs
05:26<@peter1138>well yes, if you enable extras and addons, you'd expect to get more...
05:27<b_jonas>hehe, horse maglevs
05:27<andythenorth>how many trains in NUTSes?
05:28<V453000>100 something I think
05:28<andythenorth>how many years covered?
05:29<V453000>125 trains looks like
05:30<V453000>but 2070 is last
05:30<V453000>2099 is just a bonus last slug
05:30<V453000>also good compatibility with expiring vehicles means you can reduce the purchase list length a lot
05:30<@peter1138>106, not including logic trains
05:31<@peter1138>i only did up to 2050, heh
05:31<V453000>THE GAME ENDS! :D
05:31<@peter1138>so yeah, this cut down experience...
05:31<@peter1138>i'm sure it's easier to make a coherent set
05:31<@peter1138>but lack of choice makes it way less fun
05:32<V453000>what do you mean by coherent
05:32<@peter1138>dunno :p
05:32<V453000>oh. :)
05:32<@peter1138>understandable? i dunno
05:33<@peter1138>but i think you started it
05:33<@peter1138>BAD FEATURES
05:33<V453000>andythenorth is guilty
05:33<@peter1138>and then all these sets come out with no features at all :p
05:34<@peter1138>Also, GetSpriteSize() is a pain in the arse for vehicle sprites :(
05:34<andythenorth>I blame V453000 for BAD FEATURES
05:34<V453000>well if people are even CONSIDERING that the newgrf is actually PLAYED and adjust functionality to make it played better, that alone is progress :P
05:35<V453000>I blame andythenorth because I feel like blaming him is a good idea
05:35<@peter1138>i played ukrs2 with brake vans and all...
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05:37<andythenorth>I think this is not so hard really
05:37<andythenorth>- include SOME BAD FEATURES
05:37<andythenorth>- but NOT TOO MANY
05:37<andythenorth>- there is no right number of vehicles, but BORING CHOICES ARE BORING
05:37<andythenorth>end of file
05:37<V453000>e.g. nuts has 2 main bad features I am aware of
05:37<@peter1138>no choices is more boring
05:38<V453000>1. some trains are slightly overpowered
05:38<V453000>2. USERS
05:38<V453000>users dont get how to use some trains, bad feature above all
05:38<@peter1138>Hmm, wonder how long the grf scan will take over NFS...
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>the choices in train fever are definitely too low
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05:39<Eddi|zuHause>and i think the freight wagon speed limits are too high...
05:39<Eddi|zuHause>as in, double...
05:39<andythenorth>Choose steam. Choose diesels. Choose electrics. Choose metro. Choose narrow gauge. Choose box cars, open cars and hoppers. Choose your friends. Choose a fucking big television.
05:40<@peter1138>Hmm, doesn't take very long at all actually.
05:45<@peter1138>Also, dbsetxl (the ancient one) doesn't have all that many engines.
05:46<V453000>yeah one which breaks every other pax train to be rendered useless is enough XD
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06:08<Jiinxs>I've downloaded the BigUI but It wont change the UI in the savegame I have. Which is a savegame I started without the BigUI. Is there a way around that?
06:16<@planetmaker>Jiinxs, you can try to enable biggui as a static newgrf in your openttd.cfg
06:17<@planetmaker>easiest way: configure it for use in your next game. Then exit OpenTTD
06:17<@planetmaker>open openttd.cfg in editor, move the line with ogfx+biggui from the [newgrf] section to the [newgrf-static] section
06:18<@planetmaker>save openttd.cfg and start openttd and you should be ready to go
06:19<Jiinxs>Thanks, I will give that a try.
06:23<Jiinxs>It worked doing the first thing you said =)
06:23<@peter1138>cool, hopefully i will make that newgrf obsolete soon
06:23<@peter1138>planetmaker, zbase ui is massive btw ;p
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06:28<@peter1138>those icons :S
06:37<@planetmaker>peter1138, yes, they are double-size. They should (and must) be reduced to normal
06:37<@planetmaker>it's something I'm plan to do eventually...
06:39<@peter1138>please :D
06:39<@planetmaker>yeah, it's something which has been bugging me for long, too :)
06:39<@peter1138>at least the double-size can be kept for 2x
06:48<__ln__>good news everyone,
06:50<@peter1138>Oh god...
06:50<LordAro>burn it, burn it with fire
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06:51<@peter1138>Their example is wrong too, it has newlines in it. All the JSON stuff I've used specifically can't have newlines.
06:57<LordAro>depends on the thing really
06:57<LordAro>the point is that whitespace can (largely) be ignored
06:58<V453000>all of the JSON stuff I used could do anything I want it to do
06:59<V453000>unfortuntately I didnt use any :P
07:01<@peter1138>Must've been a dodgy converter, then.
07:01<V453000>dumps :D
07:02<andythenorth>moar trucks
07:02<andythenorth>beer tankers
07:03<V453000>hammer time
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07:18<__ln__>@seen Bjarni
07:18<@DorpsGek>__ln__: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 50 weeks, 1 day, 10 hours, 59 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
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07:19<andythenorth>it’s Pikkaphone
07:20<@peter1138>Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring ring pikkakaphone
07:21<Pikkaphone>what's the do chaps?
07:22<@peter1138>10cc purchase list is... large with double size ui
07:22<@planetmaker>you should see it in 4x size then!
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07:23<Pikkaphone>parameter to smallersize?
07:24<Pikkaphone>10cc basically has double size ui built in, so I suppose I could just change it if double size ui is going to become optional in ottd
07:25<Pikkaphone>no parameter required, even
07:29<@planetmaker>yeah, no parameter :)
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07:38<@peter1138> < biiiiig
07:40<V453000>blid users? :D
07:40<andythenorth>Pikkaphone: also the do is…moar trucks
07:40<andythenorth>not less
07:41<@peter1138>but yeah, 10cc uses bigger purchase sprites already, so...
07:41<andythenorth>I tried deleting some, now I conclude I need more
07:42<Pikkaphone>10ccs purchase list sprites are 4ez sprites coded as 2ez. so it would be simple for me to change it. When's big ui going in trunk? ;)
07:42<Pikkaphone>mmmm trucks
07:43<@peter1138>dunno, depends if i finish it, or leave it lying around so i can say i had a patch for that at some time in the future...
07:45<andythenorth>leave it around, without backups
07:45<Pikkaphone>more generations, andythenorth?
07:45<@peter1138>andythenorth, not again!
07:45<andythenorth>Pikkaphone: might add more specialist trams
07:45<andythenorth>I dunno, I was thinking
07:45<andythenorth>1900-1950 was kind of a history lesson about poor road vehicles
07:46<andythenorth>but that’s boring
07:46<andythenorth>I just want to move cargo, not teach history
07:46<@peter1138>Hmm, actually, putting my Documents folder onto the NAS was awkard. That's no longer backed up every day :S
07:46<andythenorth>so I’m going to put in more trams, and they’ll be good
07:46<andythenorth>then there will be some tram-truck overlap
07:46<andythenorth>then trucks will be good
07:46<andythenorth>end of sermon
07:47<Pikkaphone>road trains?
07:48<Pikkaphone>if you're going to have articulated road vehicles, might as well go the whole HOG :D
07:49<Pikkaphone>maybe road trains as an addon called "the whole hog" D:
07:49<andythenorth>road trains not in brit roster
07:49<andythenorth>roster? roaster?
07:50<andythenorth>road trains in NA, kiwi/kangaroo rosters
07:50<Pikkaphone>Oh right, rosters
07:50<andythenorth>rosters are how I avoid design choices :P
07:50<Pikkaphone> transafrican aeroplane canals?
07:52<andythenorth>only if they are horsedrawn
07:54<Pikkaphone>the aeroplane canal means the end of the horsedrawn Zeppelin
07:54<andythenorth>how about underground?
07:55<Pikkaphone>underground zeppelins?
07:56<andythenorth>is that silly?
07:56<Pikkaphone>is it silly enough, that's the question
07:56<andythenorth>I think it’s way too sensible
07:57<V453000>what do you take andy?
07:57<V453000>crystal meth?
07:59<Pikkaphone>math meth?
07:59<Pikkaphone>mith moth?
08:00<V453000>and it looks like Pikka is your dealer
08:03<andythenorth>I mostly take sleep deprivation
08:03<andythenorth>and a sense that life is short
08:06*Pikkaphone berb
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08:36<andythenorth>oh it’s Pikka
08:36<Pikka>it is that
08:37<V453000>it is not
08:38<Pikka>is it not?
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08:43<andythenorth>should I put out the Horse with bug fixes?
08:44<andythenorth>or should I fix 404 pages?
08:44<andythenorth>404 pages
08:44<Pikka>yes, those
08:44<andythenorth>can’t find them
08:52<@peter1138>Changes its power based on current mood
08:52<V453000>good feature. :D
08:53<andythenorth>if I made a cut down NUTS
08:53<andythenorth>would it be Less NUTS?
08:53<andythenorth>or something else?
08:53<V453000>what would you cut down? :)
08:53<andythenorth>I have no idea, it’s a theoretical question
08:53<andythenorth>no intention of doing it
08:54<@planetmaker>it would be cracked nuts :)
08:54<V453000>well sure but I am asking which parts come to the theory :D
08:54<andythenorth>V453000: I’d remove 1 train, just so I can give it a silly name
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09:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26907 trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp (2014-09-22 13:13:02 UTC)
09:13<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Scale engine purchase list to GUI zoom level for multihead engines.
09:14<LordAro>woo, commits
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09:17*andythenorth found the 404s
09:17<andythenorth>and is fixing them
09:18<argoneus>andythenorth: what are you fixing?
09:20<@peter1138>imaginary commits
09:26<argoneus>there is way to set GUI size?
09:27<@peter1138>only if you compile it
09:27<V453000>only for blind people
09:28<@peter1138>hmm, i should test out_8x :p
09:36<@peter1138>Works reasonably well, actually. There's a few places where the hardcoded minimum size is too big
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09:51<@peter1138>Version for V453000:
09:51<V453000>fucking marvelous!
10:09<argoneus>what am I looking at
10:09<argoneus>why is the UI so small
10:09<Pikka>you're looking at a small UI
10:10<argoneus>b-but why
10:10<argoneus>Pikka: do you go to /r/openttd?
10:10<Pikka>not if I can help it
10:10<argoneus>I remember someone called PikkaChoo giving insight on something
10:10<Pikka>but yes, that's me
10:11<argoneus>I hate you guys :<
10:11<argoneus>I was thinking about improving my network while falling asleep
10:11<argoneus>and couldn't fall asleep
10:11<argoneus>and now I'm tired
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10:23<V453000>try this to fix your sleeping problems
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10:29<@Rubidium>peter1138: I see you implemented a way to make the fonts larger ;)
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10:40<Jiinxs>Is there a way to change alot of trains all in the same time, without sending each and every train to the depot and buy a new one?
10:41<@peter1138>Well depending on what change you want, there's autoreplace
10:41<@planetmaker>yes. It's called autoreplace. Or autorenew. Whatever you need :)
10:41<andythenorth>la la la
10:41<@planetmaker>our wiki knows and explains those two concepts, I'm lazy now :)
10:42<Jiinxs>will check the wiki then =)
10:50<Jiinxs>That autoreplace/renew. Is that and extra thing you need to download. Because the wiki shows a button I dont have. I only have Send to servicing and depot.
10:54<LordAro>greyed out, or just not there?
10:54<@planetmaker>no, it's in OpenTTD itself. Open the train overview list and you can find those options (not in stations)
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10:57<Jiinxs>Hmmm. I swear to god I was in the window.... Now I see it..
10:57<Jiinxs>It wasnt there before... or something ;p
10:57<@planetmaker>maybe he heard you :P
10:57<@planetmaker>hi hi
10:58<@Alberth>jinks: hiding stuff in plain sight works surprisingly well :p
10:58<Jiinxs>Pure evul if you ask me ^^
11:00<@planetmaker>hm, my thunderbird crashed to desktop... long time no seen :S
11:01<@Alberth>thunderbirds are ...... go!
11:02<@Alberth>Jiinxs: there is also a subtle difference between the global vehicle list and the vehicle list of a station, the latter has no link to autoreplace
11:03<LordAro>ohai Alberth
11:04<@Alberth>hi hi LordAro
11:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26908 trunk/src/viewport.cpp (2014-09-22 15:04:18 UTC)
11:04<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: replace a magic number by a more logical calculation
11:04<@Alberth>spamming me with random PMs :)
11:04<LordAro>not my fault zeph can't hit the replay-all button :p
11:05<@Alberth>tbh it's well hidden at the forum :)
11:05<Jiinxs>I had alot of old busses I wanted to replace, but there wasnt an option in replacing them with the same type as they where. But I dont care that much if they are old.
11:05<@Alberth>Jiinxs: that's renewing
11:06<LordAro>Jiinxs: there's a setting somewhere
11:06<@Alberth>turn on breakdowns, and you will care :)
11:07<Jiinxs>found that you had to go into the config file and set it to true. will try it again now.
11:07<LordAro> didn't have to
11:08<@Alberth>if you loaded your game, it won't work :)
11:09<@Alberth>games have their own configuration, copied when first started
11:09<@Alberth>you can open the advanced settings, and setup autorenew there
11:11<Jiinxs>I've already changed it in the config file and it seemed to worked. Found it also in the advanced settings. Now I can relax a bit more :)
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11:16<@Alberth>watch your trains flowing through the network :)
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11:27<keoz>plop folks
11:30<@peter1138>I hate perl...
11:30<@peter1138>that statement alert $subject
11:30<@peter1138>that statement alters $subject
11:31<Pinkbeast>Isn't that just call-by-reference at work?
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11:56<Jiinxs>It's just amazing how fast time flys when you are playing this game ^^ So glad I started playing it again!
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12:01<@peter1138>Glad that you can waste so much time so easily?
12:01<Jiinxs>yes ;p
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12:02<mist>Hey guys, is there a standalone server i download and play on with a friend?
12:02<LordAro>you can use the same executable
12:02<LordAro>just host the server
12:02<LordAro>(there's a button somewhere)
12:03<LordAro>oh, and forwarding ports:
12:03<@DorpsGek>LordAro: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
12:03<mist>oh cool, thanks, i didn't know
12:03<mist>this will be internally so hopefully nothing but the windows firewall to take care of
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12:23<@peter1138>make -j1
12:23<@peter1138>does not really do much
12:25<andythenorth>wears the ink off your j key
12:25<Sylf>j is part of my name. I can't have it worn out
12:28<@peter1138>No it's not.
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12:28<@peter1138>Coo, 4X gui... how pointless :D
12:28<@peter1138>although after the zbase toolbar, it doesn't look much different, heh
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12:33<Eddi|zuHause>there is certainly no "j" in "Sylf"
12:33<@Alberth>it's silent :p
12:40<@peter1138>i can't even draw the X with DrawSprite :(
12:41<@planetmaker>yep, that needs becoming a sprite, too
12:41<@planetmaker>* a GUI sprite
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12:50<andythenorth>wrong channel eh?
12:50<@peter1138>ah, as long as i ensure it's not loaded as ST_FONT, i can load it as ST_NORMAL
12:54<@planetmaker>introducing a separate sprite would be nicer though. Close window and x need not necessarily look exactly alike :)
12:55<@peter1138>Eh... the X is specifically for the close box
12:55<@peter1138>it's not ascii X
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13:35<Wolf01>hello o/
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13:40<andythenorth>and quak
13:40*andythenorth biab
13:40<frosch123>who is dog?
13:41<frosch123>ah, no dog, something more proper :)
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13:42<@planetmaker>haha :)
13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26909 /trunk/src/lang (8 files) (2014-09-22 17:46:35 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>belarusian - 13 changes by KorneySan
13:46<@DorpsGek>catalan - 1 changes by juanjo
13:46<@DorpsGek>english_US - 15 changes by Supercheese
13:46<@DorpsGek>german - 13 changes by planetmaker
13:46<@DorpsGek>italian - 14 changes by lorenzodv
13:46<@DorpsGek>korean - 17 changes by telk5093
13:46<@DorpsGek>polish - 13 changes by wojteks86
13:46<@DorpsGek>russian - 13 changes by Lone_Wolf
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13:54<argoneus>all these commits
13:54<argoneus>I am now tempted to improve this game myself
13:54<argoneus>but my coding skills a shit :<
13:55<@Alberth>there is a simple way to get better
13:55<@Alberth>just start coding
13:55<argoneus>I code almost all day
13:55<argoneus>or rather
13:55<argoneus>I code at school and at work
13:55<argoneus>and when I come home I just want to play games
13:56<argoneus>but even so
13:56<@Alberth>fair enough :)
13:56<Wolf01>my coding skills are really bad, but I did something :P
13:56<argoneus>the ottd source seems like old school c++
13:56<@planetmaker>argoneus, coding skills get better the more you practice
13:56<@planetmaker>mine aren't great either. Yet one can make a difference with some effort :)
13:57<argoneus>if it atleast was on github
13:57<@Alberth>in particular when you get feedback about what you're doing wrong :)
13:57<argoneus>I'm not familiar with svn :<
13:57<@Alberth>there is a git mirror
13:57<@planetmaker>quite right, Alberth :) I got (and get) that a lot. It's good and helpful
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13:59<@peter1138>problem with git is we still use svn to commit ;(
14:00<@Alberth>that's not a problem, that's good :)
14:01<@planetmaker>^ +1
14:01<@peter1138>meh, you weird mercurial lovers
14:03<argoneus>I can actually use both hg and git
14:03<argoneus>but not svn ;_;
14:04<@planetmaker>argoneus, as long as you don't commit to svn, just use whatever you like. We have a repo for each VCS
14:04<@planetmaker>each = svn,hg,git
14:04-!-jrambo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:04<@planetmaker>and they're always in sync (except the rare cases when they aren't)
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14:04<@planetmaker>there's hardly any developer who still uses SVN as his primary VCS. We only use it in order to commit
14:05<frosch123>the biggest portion of svn commits are by translator :p
14:05<@planetmaker>that, too :)
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14:07<@peter1138>hmm, right i need the latest version of grfcodec, i suppose?
14:07<argoneus>thing is
14:07<argoneus>I don't even know what the workflow is with svn
14:07<@peter1138>GRFCodec 6.0.0 r924 - Copyright (C) 2000-2005 by Josef Drexler
14:07<argoneus>in git I just fork, do changes, then commit changes, then submit pull request
14:07<@planetmaker>will be helpful, yes
14:07<argoneus>in svn I ? then ? then ???? then ??????
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14:08<@peter1138>argoneus, you just work in the repo, and match a diff when ready
14:08<@Rubidium>checkout, commit
14:08<@peter1138>argoneus, feel free to use git :P
14:08<@Rubidium>there's no need to send a pull request ;)
14:09<argoneus>but how does anyone see my awesome (shitty) changes
14:09<@planetmaker>publish them as you see fit?
14:09<@peter1138>you show them your diffs
14:09<argoneus>anyone can push into your repo?
14:09<@planetmaker>of course not
14:09<@planetmaker>but what stops you to use bitbucket, github or whatever? Or to just post patches?
14:09<argoneus>so there's no simple way to contribute, I need to do paperwork with the responsible people :<
14:10<@peter1138>use git :p
14:10<andythenorth>where is cat?
14:10<argoneus>pull requests are easier
14:10<argoneus>everyone can see proposed code changes
14:10<argoneus>like this I'd need to post in the forum / here / w/e no?
14:10<andythenorth>ottd pre-dates the rise of git or bitbucket somewhat
14:11<@Alberth>quite some whats :)
14:11<@planetmaker>quite a bit, yeah
14:11<andythenorth>and historically patches are via forums, with back and forth here
14:11<@planetmaker>yeah. Or our issue tracker. Forums is more public, though
14:11<argoneus>I've been playing this game since I was 6
14:11<argoneus>but I am not registered at tt forums
14:11<@peter1138>checking grfcodec... needs at least version 6.0.5 (r985), disabled
14:12<@planetmaker>hg pull :D
14:12<@peter1138>Latest release in grfcodec is 6.0.4, released on 2013-07-15 19:04 UTC.
14:12<argoneus>is it more common to submit source code patches or binary?
14:12<@Alberth>make a git-hg copy, git clone
14:12<argoneus>wait, that's a stupid question
14:12<@planetmaker>no need to make a grfcodec release till openttd release needs it, peter1138
14:13<@Rubidium>planetmaker: 6.0.5 is like opentd (an alpha)
14:13*andythenorth considers moving to git
14:13<@Alberth>argoneus: there are a few images in the repo too :)
14:13<andythenorth>for newgrfs
14:13<@peter1138>i'm not sure where to find newer grfcodecs
14:14<@peter1138>i found that version on the website, but there's no link to a dev version
14:14<@Alberth> ?
14:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26910 trunk/src/viewport.cpp (2014-09-22 18:14:44 UTC)
14:14<@DorpsGek>-Fix: account for the height of the landscape at the edge of the map to determine the scroll boundaries (based on patch by ic111)
14:14<@planetmaker>probably, too :)
14:15<@peter1138>Alberth, thanks, saves having to sully my system with mercurial
14:15<@Alberth>peter1138: no git-hg bridge?
14:16<@peter1138>checking nforenum/grfcodec... grfcodec needs nforenum enabled, disabling grfcodec
14:16<@Alberth>not that it would work probable, the hg-git bridge isn't that useful at least
14:16<@peter1138>Ah, it comes with grfcodec anyway
14:17<@Alberth>yeah, I expected that
14:18<@planetmaker>I think with the 5.x releases of both
14:18<argoneus>there seem to be 40 untranslated strings in my language, would it be possible for me to do that or is there a more difficult process?
14:19<@peter1138>urgh, i can't put a truncated palette into the grf :(
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14:19<@Alberth>argoneus: first blob of text
14:20<argoneus>but I am not sure if this "translation manager" person is active, or maybe if he's even in this very channel
14:20<andythenorth>for newgrfs
14:21<@planetmaker>what makes you believe so, argoneus ?
14:22<mist>Where do i change name of my company? =D
14:22<mist>doh found it
14:22<@peter1138>and... grfcodec complains because there's too many palettes anyway :S
14:22<argoneus>click on the moustache dude
14:22<mist>"It should be here..."
14:22<mist>It was right there...
14:23<@Alberth>center bottom bar :)
14:23<argoneus>compiling openttd on windows seems like a pain
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14:23<@Alberth>oh, setting it, company window indeed
14:23<@peter1138>so i need to compile grfcodec/nforenum anyway to do thsi
14:24<@peter1138>fuck this bullshit, the X can stay small
14:24<@Alberth>argoneus: yep, compiling and windows is always pain
14:24<argoneus>if all games worked on linux
14:24<argoneus>I would be full linux
14:24<@Alberth>I accepted I cannot play the non-interesting ones :)
14:25<argoneus>counter strike global offensive :<
14:25<Jiinxs>Is it just me, or will there be a big problem in changing from electric to monorail? Thinking about the change of trains. What do you guys do when you are at that point of the game?
14:25<@Alberth>like that one :p
14:25<@planetmaker>hihi, yeah. There's anyway only so much time I can spend time on playing. Then I can play those games which don't annoy me by requiring an OS I feel sullied when I need to use it
14:25<argoneus>Jiinxs: in vanilla yes
14:25<argoneus>in some train newgrfs such as NUTS it's painless
14:25<@planetmaker>Jiinxs, I simply don't use monorail+maglev ;)
14:26<@Alberth>Jiinxs: don't replace, build new lines instead
14:26-!-Myhorta[1] [] has joined #openttd
14:26<@Alberth>or use a newgrf that gives a choice what to do :)
14:29<Jiinxs>There would be so time consuming to change out all my trains for mono and when Im done I can maybe buy the mag insted ;p So I think Im gonna not change my trains and just wait for mong and do it all then.
14:29<mist>is it possible to toggle buildings on and off so that you can only see stuff like roads?
14:29<@planetmaker>mist, press 'x'
14:29<@planetmaker>(or ctrl+x)
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14:32<@peter1138>yeah don't bother with monorail
14:32<Wolf01>stupid weather
14:34<Jiinxs>Just found out there is a "advanced mode" inside the advanced settings. It was on basic so that's why I didnt see like the autorenew button.
14:35<frosch123>the advanced settings gui is the only gui we change with about every release :p
14:36<Sylf>and the gui in trunk is majorly different already from 1.4
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14:36<frosch123>and i hope it becomes even more diffferent
14:40<@peter1138>fun "feature" of svn: svn diff doesn't output the changes in a deterministic way
14:40<@planetmaker>it's one of our biggest construction sites. For ages. But then... most things we change in the game end up (also) there
14:42<@peter1138>ahh, remember the old tabbed version...
14:42<argoneus>has anyone tried compiling ottd with VS 2013? I'm not sure which one to get
14:43<frosch123>i recently encountered a screenshot of the ottd 0.2 patch settings on the wiki
14:43<@planetmaker>0.2? wow
14:43<@Alberth>peter1138: that's a know issue with some svn versions, they fixed it again in some newer version
14:43<frosch123>half of the settings shown there do no longer exist in the gui, dropped for being pointless :)
14:43<@planetmaker>haha :)
14:43<@peter1138>evidently not the version in debian
14:44<@Alberth>indeed :)
14:44<Wolf01>is the date of the compile farm wrong?
14:44<Wolf01>Latest release in trunk is r26909, released on 2014-09-21 18:00 UTC. <- today is the 22nd
14:46<frosch123> <- that one is correct
14:46<frosch123>no idea, where the website messes up
14:46<Sylf> looks okay to me
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14:58<andythenorth>accessible thread is interesting
14:58<andythenorth>accessible games are interesting
14:58<andythenorth>I’ve made some
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15:01<@Alberth>is that even remotely feasible for a game like openttd?
15:01-!-tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:01<@Alberth>so many tiny details, and so much stuff that's moving
15:04-!-oskari892 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:10<andythenorth>I do wonder
15:10<andythenorth>the games I made were pretty much turn based
15:10<andythenorth>like illustrated text adventures
15:10<@Alberth>that would be much more feasible I think
15:13<Wolf01>isn't yet possible to change the map height limit?
15:13<andythenorth>nothing represented visually that can’t be represented audibly
15:13<Sylf>1 turn = 1 tick?
15:13<andythenorth>also everything must have both keyboard and mouse controls
15:13<andythenorth>and not require key combos, or multi-press
15:14<Sylf>sounds like a nightmare for openttd
15:15<@peter1138>Are there any plans to release OpenTTD as Windows 8 (Store) app?
15:16<Wolf01>about accessibility: I ended up using quick gestures with the pen to use the ctrl and del keys, it's a pita
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15:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26911 trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp (2014-09-22 19:21:37 UTC)
15:21<@DorpsGek>-Change: increase maximum possible flat land height in scenario editor to be entered directly (ic111)
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15:57<argoneus>did anyone here manage to download openttd without "network connection closed unexpectedly" seven times?
15:57<argoneus>(svn source)
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15:58<frosch123>argoneus: what url did you use?
15:58<frosch123>and didn't you want to use git or hg?
15:58<argoneus>well it doesn't matter if I'm just getting the source
15:59<frosch123>use svn://
15:59<argoneus>o fuk
15:59<frosch123>or :)
15:59<argoneus>I'm getting all the old branches
15:59<argoneus>is the hg version pre-branched?
15:59<argoneus>or is it just the default branch
15:59<frosch123>hg and git are only default branch, yes
16:02<argoneus>I suppose I want to get trunk, right
16:02<frosch123>most likely
16:02<argoneus>I've never really used svn
16:02<argoneus>"trunk" is the "master"?
16:03<frosch123>"trunk" is "default" in hg, i am not 100% sure about the git terms, but i think it is "master"
16:03<argoneus>roger that, thanks!
16:03<frosch123>just that svn does not have real branches :)
16:03<argoneus>this makes things easier
16:04<argoneus>I can just make a branch "dev"
16:04<argoneus>and once in a while merge it with the current default
16:04<frosch123>really, use hg or git
16:04<frosch123>ignore svn branches
16:04<argoneus>using hg now
16:04<frosch123>noone should use svn branches these days :)
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16:06<frosch123>well, i guess it is better than cvs after all :)
16:06<frosch123>which was the goal, wasn't it? :p
16:06<argoneus>isn't cvs ancient?
16:07<frosch123>only twice as old as svn
16:07<frosch123>only 3 times as old as git (random guess)
16:07<argoneus>>developed as a series of shell scripts in 1986
16:07<frosch123>sounds like git :p
16:25<Jiinxs>Hmmm, I thought I could buy shares in other company's after a while. But I still cant buy. Is there somewhere in the settings that I need to enable?
16:27<Jiinxs>never mind, somehow every time I ask here. I find the answer after, by my self.
16:29<frosch123>it has a text search field
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16:41<argoneus>I'm trying to compile this glorious game with VS
16:42<argoneus>but I am getting "cannot open include file 'unicode/coll.h': no such file or dir
16:42<argoneus>has that happened to anyone?
16:42<frosch123>did you get openttd-useful ?
16:43<argoneus>it didn't save them
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16:48<andythenorth>@seen pikka
16:48<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 6 hours, 37 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <Pikka> but yes, that's me
16:51<@peter1138>oh him!
16:52<andythenorth>he thinks fast coaches for RV service between towns
16:52<andythenorth>and I want to quiz him about it
16:53<argoneus>huh what the fuck
16:53<argoneus>LINK: fatal error LNK1123: failure during conversion to COFF: file invalid or corrupt
16:57<andythenorth>somehow I talked myself into adding 13 RVs
16:58<andythenorth>this is not how deleting things works :(
16:58<@peter1138>make it 31
16:58<andythenorth>if I went up to 2050 it would be 32
16:58<andythenorth>obiwan :P
16:58<@peter1138>you were doing it wrong
16:58<@peter1138>you're only supposed to delete things you don't need
16:58<@peter1138>clearly you need at least that many
16:58<+glx>argoneus: try a full rebuild
16:58<@peter1138>if you have less vehicles than the default set, you're doing it wrong :D
16:59<argoneus>just tried
16:59<argoneus>this is odd
17:00<andythenorth>I get 56 trams, buses and trucks, for 1870-2000
17:00<@peter1138>not enough
17:00<andythenorth>that’s auto-replacing crap every 2 years, enough surely?
17:00<andythenorth>I hate auto-replace
17:01<andythenorth>hate / dislike /s
17:01<andythenorth>to be fair
17:02<andythenorth>it’s annoying that auto-replace leaves broken “can’t stop replacing this type” vehicles in the lists
17:02<andythenorth>I never filed a report :P
17:02*andythenorth tries to replicate, brb
17:03<andythenorth>ok so
17:03<andythenorth>make a group, 1 is enough
17:03<andythenorth>now set a replace rule on ‘all trains'
17:03<andythenorth>replace them
17:03<andythenorth>go to your group and open replace vehicles
17:04<andythenorth>you will have a greyed-out rule which you can’t clear
17:04<andythenorth>I know the group is a subset of the superset ‘all’ etc :P
17:04<andythenorth>but the UI is broken there
17:05<@peter1138>sounds like you expect to be able to remove rules from parents in children?
17:05<andythenorth>I expect buttons to do something when I click them
17:05<andythenorth>first world problem
17:05<andythenorth>but it pisses me off :)
17:08<@peter1138>it doesn't even behave that way for me
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17:09<@peter1138>can't repalce vehicles on an empty group
17:10<@planetmaker>argoneus, go ahead and start translating. You might need to re-login, though, before changes take effect
17:10<@peter1138>otoh, global autoreplace isn't working right
17:10<andythenorth>put a vehicle in the group :)
17:10<andythenorth>forgot that step
17:11<andythenorth>it’s kind of weird
17:11<andythenorth>groups over-ride global
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17:12<argoneus>planetmaker: oh, thanks
17:13<frosch123>andythenorth: peter1138: maybe fs#5978 or something?
17:14<argoneus>oh, wow, translating isn't as easy as I thought
17:14<argoneus>since there's no context to the strings
17:15<@peter1138>frosch123, nbo
17:16<@peter1138>oh wanker
17:16<@peter1138>i was autoreplacing on ungrouped, no wonder :p
17:16<andythenorth>I think I’ve seen #5978 in action
17:17<andythenorth>the current behaviour in groups is ‘correct’
17:17<andythenorth>it’s just confusing
17:18<@peter1138>just needs to disable the button, and maybe indicate why
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17:26<argoneus>is it possible the english strings are wrong too?
17:26<argoneus>"Afterwards the bridge above it would be too high."
17:26<argoneus>no, wait
17:26<argoneus>I'm too sleepy
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17:40<argoneus>planetmaker: can I fix already existing strings too?
17:40<argoneus>like, verified ones
17:40<argoneus>there are some very wrong plurals
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18:04<argoneus>good night and thanks for all the help
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20:18<Pikkaphone>Bing bong
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 23 00:00:22 2014