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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-09-23

---Logopened Tue Sep 23 00:00:22 2014
00:10-!-Pikkaphone [~yaaic@58.108.147.28] has joined #openttd
00:42<Supercheese>Heh, was wondering how to say "All rights reserved" in Latin, lo and behold my textbook has its copyright information all in Latin
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02:31<andythenorth>Pikkaphone: lo hai
02:38<Supercheese>ring ring ring ring ring ring, Pikkaphone
02:38<Supercheese>hmm not enough syllables
02:38<Pikkaphone>that's what she said
02:39<andythenorth>coaches
02:39<andythenorth>20mph faster than buses
02:39<andythenorth>not convinced, but going to try it
02:40*andythenorth making road hog bigger
02:40<Pikkaphone>does it?
02:40<andythenorth>dunno yet
02:40<andythenorth>I found it ‘needed’ about another 15 vehicles
02:40<andythenorth>apparently
02:40<andythenorth>coach trams also?
02:41<Pikkaphone>coaches shouldn't be too capable
02:41<Supercheese>coaches aren't bad, if they've wifi
02:41<Pikkaphone>quickly overwhelmed and replaced with trains to all but the smallest towns imo
02:42<Supercheese>onboard televisions are so pedestrian these days
02:43<Pikkaphone>when does a coach tram become an emu?
02:43<andythenorth>when it’s grown up
02:43<andythenorth>also I have narrow gauge trains innit
02:43<andythenorth>so even more overlapping
02:44<Supercheese>it would need to sprout wings and run about no?
02:44<Pikkaphone>no coach yams or trams
02:44<V453000>andythenorth: more doing less talking? :P
02:44<andythenorth>V453000: talking makes pixels appear
02:44<Supercheese>trams > narrow gauge for cities, because roads and such
02:44<andythenorth>‘project management'
02:45<V453000>:D
02:48<Pikkaphone>talking makes pixels unnecessary
02:48<Pikkaphone>convince yourself something is not needed -> job done
02:50<V453000>:D
02:50<V453000>valid point
02:53<andythenorth>can I bin the coaches then?
02:53*andythenorth wants to
02:53<andythenorth>otherwise I have to cripple the buses a bit also
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02:54<andythenorth>one obviously good type for any route
02:54<andythenorth>nobody builds bus routes between cities
02:56<Pikkaphone>fabulous ai does
02:56<Pikkaphone>well, it builds coaches
03:01<Supercheese>I'll build bus routes between cities, if the cities are particularly close, the buses are sufficiently capable, and/or there is no room for rails
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03:01*andythenorth builds metro
03:01<Supercheese>although if the cities are extremely close I'll run subways between them
03:01<Supercheese>provided they're both large enough to produce enough passengers
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03:08<argoneus>mornink
03:11<V453000>moo
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04:50<andythenorth>ho
04:51<andythenorth>searching hard enough finds a prototype for all things
04:52<@planetmaker>mourn ink
04:52<andythenorth>bonsoir
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04:58<V453000>moo
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05:41<Pikkaphone>bon cheese
05:41<Pikkaphone>and crackers
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06:22<@peter1138>bon
06:23<andythenorth>jour
06:23<V453000>ass
06:29<Celestar>*burps*
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08:35<argoneus>is this the official channel for SIMUTRANS?
08:36<__ln__>have two guesses at it
08:36<Celestar>well ... maybe you could use Schrödingers Equation to model the answer :P
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>i prefer my cats alive, please.
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08:54<Eddi|zuHause>anybody have the problem that linux-steam always fails to start the first time, and then runs on the second try?
08:57<@peter1138>no
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>weird
09:01<Celestar>I don't have that either...
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>seems to complain about not finding NetworkManager
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>but it's only a warning. why would it exit after that?
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10:18<@Rubidium>moin Celestar
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10:19*Rubidium predicts Celestar leaving by timeout within 8 minutes ;)
10:19<Celestar>what makes you think so? :P
10:19<Celestar>because I usually leave work at that time? :)
10:20<@Rubidium>because that's the usual M/O when I try to say hi to you
10:22<Celestar>haha
10:25<Celestar>but yeah I gotta run in a mo :P
10:25<@Rubidium>bye Celestar
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11:10<argoneus>oui
11:12<@Alberth>yes?
11:12<Xaroth|Work>jawol
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>you missed a silent 'h' :p
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>or more precicely a "stretching h"
11:27<heffer>or if he's from Rheinland or the Ruhrgebiet he could also be missing an l at the end
11:27<heffer>but then it would be more affirmative than questioning
11:27<@planetmaker>pronounciation peculiarities don't exactly change the spelling :)
11:28<heffer>yeah right. but sometimes you need to write dialect like it's spoken or noone will get it :D
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>i've certainly seen it spelled that way
11:29<heffer>Jawoll
11:29<heffer>or even So isses
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>though then it certainly has subtle differences in meaning
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11:33<@planetmaker>not sure there actually is.
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11:36<Eddi|zuHause>well that may be also a regional thing, but to me, the shortened version carries more enthusiasm and engergy with it. but it also depends on whether it's used in ironic context
11:37<@planetmaker>I think it's more a matter of intonation than pronounciation. Though the Jawoll form lends itself to a more 'energetic' exlamation than the longer 'Jawohl'
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12:47<argoneus>how do you guys grow your cities before they're big enough for trains?
12:47<argoneus>like, inter city transport by trains taht is
12:48*Alberth doesn't
12:48*planetmaker doesn't either. I start with IC transport right away. And add a small inner city network to feed the station
12:48<argoneus>hmm
12:49<argoneus>oh
12:49<@planetmaker>1000 inhabitants is enough. Even 500 is
12:49<argoneus>I meant the train network inside the city
12:49<argoneus>inter city is wrong
12:49<argoneus>wrong word
12:49<@planetmaker>3 ... 5 bus stations with busses going in circles. But I build the train station first. Then the bus stations
12:50<@planetmaker>That way the city grows around the train station
12:50<argoneus>ok
12:51<@planetmaker>mind to not build the tracks for the train station. Or you might not be allowed to build the bus stations anymore :P
12:51<@planetmaker>build the tracks only when bus service is active
12:51<@Alberth>it's intra city what you mean, I think :)
12:52<argoneus>oh yeah
12:52<argoneus>also, for some reason
12:52<argoneus>all my road vehicles are gone
12:52<argoneus>o.o
12:52<argoneus>like, the depot is empty
12:52<argoneus>huh
12:52<@planetmaker>eaten by train collisions on level crossings
12:52<argoneus>nono
12:52<argoneus>I can't even build any road vehicles
12:52<argoneus>there are none in the list
12:53<@Alberth>too early?
12:53<argoneus>ohh
12:53<argoneus>I removed egrvts2 from my newgrfs
12:53<argoneus>1923
12:54<argoneus>so do you guys ever make intra city networks?
12:54<argoneus>in the beginning
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12:54<@Alberth>I almost never do pax
12:55<@Alberth>I find industry chains much nicer to play
12:55<argoneus>I like the idea of pax
12:55<argoneus>because the city grows and I have to adapt
12:55<argoneus>but that's the annoying part too
12:57<@Alberth>adapting is fine, but you need room, and towns don't give that
12:57<@Alberth>or at best, very slowly
12:57<argoneus>also
12:57<argoneus>I just started up auatoreplace
12:57<argoneus>but my vehicles don't go to depots
12:57<argoneus>:(
12:57<@Alberth>enable breakdowns :p
12:58<argoneus>even when I send them for servicing
12:58<argoneus>they just go in and out
12:58<@Alberth>wrong setup, or no money?
12:58<@Alberth>don't you get a vehicle info window telling you why it fails?
12:58<@planetmaker><argoneus> I removed egrvts2 from my newgrfs
12:58<@planetmaker><argoneus> 1923 <-- you obviously missed the big red warning box that talked about messing up your savegame when changing NewGRFs mid-game
12:58<argoneus>nope
12:59<argoneus>planetmaker: not midgame
12:59<argoneus>it's not enabled to begin with
12:59<argoneus>but no road vehicles
12:59<@Alberth>argoneus: disabled vehicle info news?
12:59<argoneus>but 1923 is too early isn't it
12:59<@planetmaker>well, yes, default starting year is 1950 for a reason
12:59<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Buses <-- says 1929
13:00<@Alberth>but it may be later, openttd randomizes the starting year
13:00<argoneus>but why NUTS trains don't autoreplace is beyond me
13:01<@Alberth>why are oil RVs called "tanker" http://wiki.openttd.org/Oil_Tankers ?
13:01<@Alberth>argoneus: my crystal ball is failing unfortunately
13:02<Pinkbeast>Alberth: English is a funny language?
13:02<@Alberth>I can live with that :)
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13:03<@planetmaker>Alberth, how are they called in Dutch? In German we also call them Tanklaster. Tanker rather refers to (big) oil *ships*
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13:04<Pinkbeast>Large oil ships are also tankers in English (as you may know)
13:05<@Alberth>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankwagen tankwagens, just like germans do, apparently :)
13:05<argoneus>I just don't see a challenge in IC
13:05<argoneus>I can just connect all oil wells to one refinery or such
13:05<argoneus>and enjoy money
13:05<argoneus>even with cargodist
13:06<andythenorth>tanker truck
13:06<andythenorth>dumper truck
13:06<andythenorth>tipper truck
13:06<andythenorth>tanker lorry
13:06<andythenorth>is probably more english
13:07<@Alberth>sounds about right, andy
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13:08<@Alberth>Interestingly, http://wiki.openttd.org/Road_vehicles lists all as "trucks" except oil tanker :)
13:08<@planetmaker>pretty stupid, imho :)
13:08<@planetmaker>but then... doesn't matter
13:08<Pinkbeast>I fear "lorry" is losing out to "truck" :-/
13:10<andythenorth>it’s correct
13:10<andythenorth>tanker truck
13:10<andythenorth>but oil tanker
13:10<andythenorth>cement mixer
13:10<@Alberth>lorry sounds much more friendly
13:10<andythenorth>bin lorry
13:11<Pinkbeast>Rubbish lorries are still lorries, you couldn't say rubbish truck.
13:11<andythenorth>bin truck
13:11<andythenorth>recycling truck
13:11<andythenorth>garbage truck
13:11*andythenorth back to work
13:33<@peter1138>bah at rendering differences
13:34<argoneus>I am having a hard time deciding between Medium and Strong in NUTS
13:35<argoneus>if I have a lot of space for curves, is Medium enough for 7 length coal?
13:35<@Alberth>tias
13:35<@Alberth>when in doubt throw in an extra engine
13:35<@Alberth>it looks awesome as bonus :)
13:36<argoneus>wait
13:36<argoneus>you can chain engines?
13:36<@Alberth>oh boy :)
13:36<@Alberth>buy en angine, move it into a train
13:36<@Alberth>*an
13:36<andythenorth>moar engines
13:37<andythenorth>usually, if in doubt, more
13:37<andythenorth>choosing carefully is very over-rated
13:37<@Alberth>preferably with a wagon or two/three in between for better steam show
13:37<andythenorth>sometimes I diligently watch a train run its route
13:37<andythenorth>and then add engines if and only if needed
13:37<andythenorth>other times...MOAR
13:38*andythenorth should play a game
13:38*andythenorth should fix some ships
13:38<andythenorth>and RVs
13:38<@Alberth>play > fix ?
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13:46<andythenorth>:P
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13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26912 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2014-09-23 17:46:13 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>czech - 21 changes by argoneus
13:46<@DorpsGek>korean - 2 changes by telk5093
13:46<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 18 changes by Stabilitronas
13:46<@DorpsGek>spanish - 3 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
13:46<@DorpsGek>welsh - 14 changes by kazzie
13:46*argoneus tips
13:47<argoneus>V453000: does autoreplace only work for the trains of the same type? (Strong, Medium etc)
13:48<V453000>no, for all trains
13:48<argoneus>huh, something is very wrong then
13:48<V453000>if you are using nuts make sure you are also replacing wagons which fit to the desired train
13:48<argoneus>I'm using the universal ones
13:48<argoneus>but thing is
13:49<argoneus>1, my trains don't go to the depot 2, when I force them there they don't do anything
13:49<argoneus>even though I'm above the money limit
13:49<argoneus>and there's no message either ._.
13:49<@Alberth>I think we'll need a save game if you want real help
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13:50<argoneus>I'll try for a few more years
13:50<argoneus>to make sure it's not me being retarded
13:50<@Alberth>ok :)
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14:03<V453000>argoneus: which engine to which engine?
14:03<frosch123>hai kids
14:04<V453000>yo kid
14:04<argoneus>V453000: educated horses to revelation engine
14:04<V453000>that should indeed work without issues
14:04<argoneus>uhhhh
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14:33<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26913 /branches/1.4 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-09-23 18:33:31 UTC)
14:33<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Update documentation
14:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26914 /tags/1.4.3 (10 files in 4 dirs) (2014-09-23 18:35:17 UTC)
14:35<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.4.3
14:36<Xaroth|Work>gz
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14:45<Wolf01>hi hi
14:48<@Alberth>hi
14:55<keoz>any way that a gamescript can disable the water/food requirement for tropical town's in order to growth ?
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14:55<keoz>(hi, btw)
14:57<keoz>Oh, maybee a solution with CargoEffects
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14:58<NumberNoid>hello
14:58<NumberNoid>im having some issues with a server
14:58-!-sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@95.76.26.55] has joined #openttd
14:58<NumberNoid>its quite simply when the yearly autosave comes around I get disconnected
14:59<NumberNoid>like the client looses the connection to the server
14:59<NumberNoid>any solutions?
14:59<NumberNoid>running debian on server machine
14:59<FLHerne_>NumberNoid: What sort of disconnect? Timeout? Desync?
15:00<+glx>missing version info too
15:00<NumberNoid>general disconnect
15:00<NumberNoid>however Im assuming its a timeour
15:00<NumberNoid>out*
15:00<NumberNoid>using openttd 1.4.2 stable
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15:02<FLHerne_>NumberNoid: Is the client relatively slow? That can happen when the client fails to keep up with the server, and autosaving might push it over the edge
15:02<NumberNoid>I don't think the client would be the issue
15:02<NumberNoid>the network speed might be though
15:02<NumberNoid>currently having a 4096x4096 map with couple opengfr's
15:03<+glx>that's the issue :)
15:03<NumberNoid>there its happening
15:03<+glx>4kx4k is huge
15:03<NumberNoid>it is
15:03<NumberNoid>there
15:03<NumberNoid>"network-game connection lost"
15:04<NumberNoid>is there a way to fix this?
15:04<frosch123>keoz: just set the cargo requirements for town growth to "nothing"
15:04<frosch123>the default conditions only apply for TOWN_GROWTH_NORMAL
15:04<+glx>use a smaller map
15:04<NumberNoid>like the "max_lag" thing is on full (65500 or similar)
15:05<NumberNoid>yes but I really don't want to loose the progress we had on the current map
15:05<keoz>mmh, frosch123
15:06<keoz>not sure I understand the procedure. My script already disables normal growth
15:06<frosch123>ignore teh TOWN_GROWTH_NORMAL, i was confusing stuff
15:06<@Rubidium>is autosave set on the serveror the client?
15:06<NumberNoid>on server
15:06<frosch123>there is no easy way to reset it to default, once you changed them
15:06<NumberNoid>and client
15:06<NumberNoid>is it possible to disable autosave?
15:06<frosch123>keoz: GSTown::SetCargoGoal
15:06<NumberNoid>or make it something like 10 years?
15:06<@Rubidium>it's definitely possible to disable autosave
15:07*NumberNoid missed the "off" function all these years
15:07<NumberNoid>bloody hell
15:07<keoz>frosch123: yeah I was thinking to that method. Just need to figure out the right way :-)
15:07<NumberNoid>is it possible to do it in server commands?
15:07<@Rubidium>maybe disabling the autosave on the client works
15:07<NumberNoid>lemme try
15:08<keoz>the description of SetCargoGoal is confusing, since it asks a cargo id for a GSCargo::TownEffect
15:09<NumberNoid>any way to unlock all the airports?
15:09<frosch123>keoz: it doesn'T ask as cargo id
15:09<@Alberth>aircraft are boring to play
15:09<NumberNoid>easy money though
15:09<NumberNoid>to get trains
15:10<keoz>frosch123: ok, that's what I understood. But the documentation asks for "The index of the cargo."
15:11<keoz>Anyway. I'll try to play with SetCargoGoal and see what it gives :)
15:11<frosch123>ah, i'll fix the docs
15:11<frosch123>the @pre were also wrong
15:12<keoz>are they ?
15:12<frosch123>well, they say cargo_id, when the parameter is called towneffect_id
15:12<NumberNoid>I need to ask; how difficult would it be to remake openttd into 3d graphics (not isometric)?
15:12<keoz>oh, yes, right
15:12<frosch123>NumberNoid: download train fever
15:13<frosch123>easily done within 30 minutes
15:13<NumberNoid>lol
15:13*NumberNoid prefers open source software
15:13<keoz>frosch123: : also IsValidTown should maybee be preceeded by GSTown::
15:13<keoz>(still in the @pre)
15:14<frosch123>nah, that is a method of the same class
15:14<frosch123>it's that way everywhere
15:14<keoz>right
15:16<NumberNoid>im gonna go from IRC as I cbb adding this to my BNC
15:16<NumberNoid>(and I don't host a openttd server often nuff
15:16<NumberNoid>)
15:17<NumberNoid>thanks for the help and great game!
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15:21<@Rubidium>blathijs / heffer: there has been a release
15:21<heffer>thanks. updating
15:23<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.4.3
15:23-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.4.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
15:23<argoneus>were the commit notices killed?
15:24<frosch123>no?
15:24<@Rubidium>argoneus: what makes you think that?
15:24<argoneus>oh
15:24<argoneus>I just noticed you changed the topic, but didn't know what was before
15:24<argoneus>and I remember that commit notices were always here
15:26<@Rubidium>well, they still are
15:27<@Rubidium>it's just that OpenTTD doesn't instantly get compiled on 20 platforms
15:28<heffer>reminds me i still need to file that bundling exception regarding squirrel with the Fedora Engineering Steering Comittee
15:29<frosch123>sounds fancy, what's that? :p
15:30<frosch123>what's exceptional about squirrel?
15:30<@Rubidium>it's a library, but we don't link with the library
15:30<@Rubidium>instead we include the source code with modifications
15:31<heffer>yeah. and Rubidium and I talked about the reasons also. and i think they are valid.
15:31<frosch123>oh, there is a squirrel package in fedora?
15:31<heffer>yes, there actually is
15:33<heffer>in Fedora we usually can't bundle libraries. unless you file an exception which must be granted by FESCo.
15:33<heffer>if you file for an exception you better have a good reason though
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15:56<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i think i'm going bankrupt now :/
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15:58*Rubidium wonders how long it takes before someone asks to write an import for train fever save games into OpenTTD
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16:02<heffer>the ARM build are always taking forever
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16:03<@peter1138>nobody uses it anyway
16:03*andythenorth broke the tests
16:03<@Rubidium>well, at least 1.4.3 doesn't segfault upon regression test of m68k
16:03<heffer>peter1138: pretty sure no one ever installed openttd on Fedora ARM
16:03<frosch123>Rubidium: did anyone ask for a simutrans, locomotion or railroad tycoon import?
16:04<heffer>Sim City 2000 import
16:04<@Rubidium>frosch123: if so, I mentally ignored them
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>have people even asked about TTDP import lately?
16:05<@Rubidium>what's TTDP?
16:05<__ln__>i'd like to import word documents.
16:06<frosch123>i think exporting excel spreadsheets is more important
16:07<Supercheese>Well, if Train Fever can export a heightmap...
16:07<andythenorth>frosch123: mail client
16:07<Supercheese>although I doubt it can
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>i want export to toaster
16:08<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: export to gardena? :p
16:08<heffer>i want to import my punchcards
16:08<@Rubidium>HTCPCP ?
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>never heard of that
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>i wonder if i should attempt a large map, or if performance of the simulation will suffer...
16:16*andythenorth unbreaks the tests
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16:32*andythenorth goes to bed
16:32<andythenorth>bye
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16:35<heffer>update for Fedora has been pushed to testing
16:36<heffer>I guess that was my fastest push to date :D
16:38<frosch123>:)
17:18<Wolf01>'night
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18:10<@peter1138>hmm
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18:17<@peter1138>anyone need an opteron 275? :p
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20:19<Celestar>good night :)
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 24 00:00:23 2014