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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-09-29

---Logopened Mon Sep 29 00:00:30 2014
00:17<SHOTbyGUN><Eddi|zuHause> thanks again, now it works as it should :)
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03:52<@planetmaker>moin moin
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04:10<@peter1138>"If I cannot have a single complete range or two of GRFIDs for my own personal and exclusive use without interference, then there is no purpose for me to continue GRF development for OpenTTD."
04:10<@peter1138>uh huh
04:11<andythenorth>fortunately a locked thread
04:11<andythenorth>I am trying hard to say nothing else
04:11<V453000>was there some recent drama I missed?
04:12<andythenorth>I intended to change Iron Horse grfid, and I forgot before 1.0.0 release
04:12<andythenorth>is all
04:12<andythenorth>now christmas is cancelled :(
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04:14<V453000>nice post
04:14<V453000>I like it
04:14<V453000>I miss him very much already
04:14<@peter1138>all GRF development for OpenTTD has been terminated
04:14<@peter1138>^^ andythenorth, you better stop
04:15<andythenorth>I fucking might
04:16<V453000>do I have to as well?
04:16<V453000>or is 32bpp allowed?
04:16<andythenorth>you can fuck off
04:16<V453000>well then
04:16<V453000>btw who closed the thread I want discussion to happen
04:17<andythenorth>not useful
04:17<andythenorth>better locked
04:17<V453000>I didnt say I want useful discussion? :P
04:18<andythenorth>oztrans is a complete twat
04:18<andythenorth>I have defended him every time people here want to lay into him
04:18<andythenorth>because Canadian grfs are good, and we should be able to have more than one approach to newgrfs
04:18<andythenorth>I genuinely forgot to change the grfid on Iron Horse
04:18<andythenorth>and now I get this shit storm laid on my name, with character assassination to boot
04:19<andythenorth>he is a complete fucking tool
04:20<andythenorth>but I am trying not to comment :P
04:24<andythenorth>my children have smaller tantrums
04:24<andythenorth>even I have smaller tantrums
04:24<andythenorth>although I did go on a repo-deleting spree after falling out with planetmaker (not planetmaker’s fault)
04:25<V453000>I like the no longer available
04:25<V453000>lets see how long will it take till we hear from him again
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04:26<andythenorth>lo bob
04:26<Pikka>sup jim
04:26<Pikka>same to you
04:27<andythenorth>trucks after 1990
04:27<andythenorth>just more power, or some fake futurisms?
04:27<@peter1138>Space: 1999
04:27<Pikka>more brown power
04:28<Pikka>I don't know, I think I'm making my last generation of trucks vaguely futurisms, but they're not until the 20s or 30s I think
04:28<Pikka>and the futurisms is merely in appearance
04:29<V453000>make it animate
04:29<andythenorth>how do we animate?
04:30<andythenorth>I have to put the horsies into Iron Horse
04:30<andythenorth>does nml support gif? o_O
04:33<Pikka>what's the point of a mecha on rollerskates? ground clearance?
04:34<andythenorth>looks leet
04:35<Pikka>wing-in-road flying trucks
04:35<andythenorth>nice idea
04:36<andythenorth>je vais
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04:48<V453000>nml supports gif animation? :D
04:49<Pikka>I'm guessing no?
04:49<V453000>I thought you simply feed nml the separate frames
04:49<V453000>that is what yeti does at least
04:49*peter1138 hands V453000 a 32 bpp animated gif.
04:49<Pikka>gif animation doesn't support 32bpp, yes :)
04:50<V453000>that doesnt matter
04:50<V453000>colour settings can be whatever
04:50<V453000>yeti also has 8bpp animation ... not visually, but coded
04:51<@peter1138>Doesn't matter, it was a joke :D
04:52<V453000>fines :)
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04:58<Pikka>clearly java is fun and hip
05:05<@planetmaker>woot woot?
05:05<@planetmaker>I see it's nearly popcorn time again
05:16<@planetmaker>I was referring to the discussion here 45minutes ago :)
05:22<Pikka>nothing to see
05:28<Pikka>good job that thread got locked, though :) so discussion is limited to the secret anti-OzTrans cabals on IRC and in the moderator forum...
05:28*Pikka must to dins, bbl
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06:45<Celestar>yo peter1138
06:49<@peter1138>sir celestar
06:52<Celestar>how is life?
07:01<@peter1138>Heeeeeeeeeee's mister know-it-all
07:03<@peter1138>misstra, i know ;p
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07:19<Eddi|zuHause>i have no clue what that means
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09:06<Pikka>moin peeps
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09:35<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: so would VF_CARGO_UNLOADING enable dump trucks? o_O
09:35<@peter1138>animation states!
09:35*andythenorth gravedug that
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'm sure i discussed that at some point, but i don't remember any of that
09:39<andythenorth>was hungarian truck set
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>there was probably something in there about the flag not being exposed to newgrf
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>but in theory it needs the same flag that is used to put the ^ and v arrows next to the vehicles
09:43<andythenorth>nothing in 80+
09:54<@peter1138>why does the one-way roads button not bip?
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>you broke it?
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10:56<Pikka>where's DanMacK when you need him?
11:03<V453000>yetis ate him
11:14<andythenorth>he’s in Canadia
11:15<@planetmaker>aren't yetis known to roam also there? Or is it only in the Himalaya?
11:16<andythenorth>yetis are scientifically limited to Himalaya
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11:22<Pikka>I need three more electric locomotives for NARS, because of a slightly obsessive need for round numbers
11:22<andythenorth>hang on I’ll send you some
11:22<andythenorth>what are you doing, also?
11:22<andythenorth>NARS is done :P
11:22<Pikka>makin' a list
11:22<andythenorth>NARS 3?
11:23<Pikka>checking it twice
11:23<andythenorth>which ones do you have?
11:23<andythenorth>the correct number is 8 or 10 btw
11:23<Pikka>making an update for NARS with the BAD FEATURES removed
11:23<Pikka>let's call it the OzTrans memorial edition
11:23<Pikka>yes, the correct number is 10
11:23<Pikka>I have 20 steam locos and 30 diesels, you see
11:24<Pikka>I have nothing betwen the GG1 in 1934 and the E60C in 1972
11:24<Pikka>I think that's where I can slot in three more... little joe is one. so two more.
11:24<andythenorth>what do you have overall?
11:24<andythenorth>before I go replicating :P
11:24<Pikka>3 early steeplecabs and boxcabs, GG1, E60C AEM-7 and GF6C
11:25<andythenorth>I have replicated quite enough thanks
11:25<andythenorth>got an FL9?
11:25<andythenorth>last ones just got scrapped I think
11:26<Pikka>3rd rail electodiesel
11:26<Pikka>not really suitable for porpoises :)
11:26*andythenorth has been ignoring that sort of realisms
11:26<Pikka>yes, but this is NARS, the home of realisms
11:27<@peter1138>I'm gonna play UKRS2 with liveries, YEAH
11:27<andythenorth>no photos
11:27<Pikka>yeah, I think we talked about those ones
11:27<Pikka>I wonder if there's another canadistani one...
11:27<andythenorth>looks a bit like an E33
11:28<Pikka>GE W1 is already statted in the old list \o/
11:28<andythenorth>oh they became E33 :P
11:28<andythenorth>do the E33
11:28<andythenorth>US set has one
11:28<Pikka>sounds like a plan
11:29<Pikka>suppose I ought to put in
11:30<andythenorth>have you got a meatball?
11:30<Pikka>it will be the last loco introduced, I'm taking out all the futurisms :)
11:30<@Alberth>nice black blocky engine :)
11:30<Pikka>I do have a meatball
11:31<andythenorth>what are those ones on the deseret railroad?
11:31<andythenorth>got them
11:32<andythenorth>electric switcher
11:32<Pikka>okay, so
11:32<Pikka>I needed 3 more electrics, and I've got 7. thanks :/
11:32<andythenorth>there you go
11:32<andythenorth>all realisms covered
11:33<andythenorth>E33, SW1200MG, Cities Sprinter
11:33<andythenorth>you can ‘upgrade’ the E33 to E44 after 10 years :P
11:33<Pikka>of course I can
11:34<andythenorth>are you keeping that BAD FEATURE?
11:34<Pikka>I am not
11:34<andythenorth>set kind of relies on it:P
11:34<Pikka>no upgrading
11:34<Pikka>no regearing
11:34<Pikka>no HEP / dynamo nonsense
11:34<Pikka>no required cabooses
11:35<Pikka>no other consist limitations
11:35<Pikka>no.. running sounds, ho ho.
11:35<Pikka>no different locos in different climates
11:35<Pikka>and I'm sure there are more bad features in NARS I can't remember
11:36<Pikka>oh, no supercomplex running cost rules
11:39*Alberth wonders whether 2cc trains 'regiions' could be interpret as openttd climates
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11:42<DanMacK>hey all
11:42*DanMacK sees OzTrans is being a douche again...
11:43<Pikka>hi Dan
11:43<Pikka>would you object terribly if I just.. made up the stats for NARS locos? :D
11:44<Pikka>specifically ?
11:45<@peter1138>NARS GamePlay Special Edition
11:46<Pikka>implying that the existing edition doesn't have made-up stats in it ;)
11:46<DanMacK>sure go for it ;)
11:46*Pikka is going to make a final, no-bad-features recode of NARS
11:47<Pikka>if there's anything you want to redraw, this is your chance :) also, adding a couple of extra locos to make round numbers :)
11:47<Pikka>I'll finish the list and then either PM it or blog it...
11:48<DanMacK>so e44 too? ;)
11:49<Pikka>nope :D
11:49<Pikka>GMD SW1200MG
11:49<Pikka>, blame andy.
11:50<DanMacK>I was thinking of those for the canset actually
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11:56<Pikka>alright, I have a list.
11:56<Pikka>one sec
11:57<DanMacK>pm... gotta go back to work
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12:23<Pikka>the W1 was in the old NARS all along
12:23<Pikka>oh well
12:24<@peter1138>Whatever happened to the patch that didn't require an engine at the front of a train?
12:24<Pikka>you have most of the patches, don't you?
12:25<andythenorth>he lost them
12:25<andythenorth>down the sofa
12:26<Pikka>ah, push-pull
12:27<Pikka>that's another bad feature to get rid of
12:32<b_jonas>what? a pushmi-pullyu?
12:32<@peter1138>imma implement all the features in opettd
12:32<@peter1138>and openttd
12:34<andythenorth>nothing wrong with push-pull
12:34<andythenorth>what will happen to your cabbages?
12:34<Pikka>they can stay I suppose
12:35<andythenorth>I’d pull-push in Iron Horse if I could be fucked to
12:35<andythenorth>it’s harmless
12:35<Pikka>maybe I'll keep it, then
12:35<Pikka>since it's a realisms set
12:35<andythenorth>it’s not an annoying limitation or a boring choice
12:35<andythenorth>you have to have 3 BAD FEATURES per set
12:35<andythenorth>otherwise dull
12:36<andythenorth>keeping Cabeeses?
12:36<Pikka>removing the requirement, I think
12:37<Pikka>people whinge about "having to" remove them
12:38<andythenorth>HEP was genuine BAD FEATURE
12:38<andythenorth>also regearing sadly
12:38<andythenorth>I don’t think stats upgrading is worst thing ever
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12:38<andythenorth>just faffy
12:38<Pikka>HEP was realisms gone mad
12:38<Pikka>stats upgrading was because of limited IDs in TTDP
12:38<andythenorth>I thought I’d found a bug when I saw HEP
12:39<Pikka>so did everyone
12:39<andythenorth>you should keep some BAD FEATURES
12:39<andythenorth>or add new ones
12:39<andythenorth>I never figured out how to work the alternative liveries btw
12:41<Pikka>I'm getting rid of those, too. I'll use the best one for each vehicle
12:43<Pikka>it was based on companyid.. really a feature for multiplayer. but who cares about different patterns on different companies, if you have different colours anyway?
12:44<Pikka>70 locos. 20 steam, 30 diesel, 10 electric, 5 each DMU and EMU.
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12:45<V453000>just randomizing the sprites on a train is AMAZING Pikka imo :)
12:45<Pikka>the pinkyorange columns are for half-size vehicle list options, one temperate-like express passenger oriented, one tropic-like heavy freight oriented
12:45<V453000>slight differences, same engine, moar visual variety
12:45<V453000>for 1 company obviously :P
12:45<Pikka>can be confusing to players if they're too random, though.
12:45<Pikka>if they build a train and it doesn't look like the buy list
12:45<V453000>sure :)
12:45<@Alberth>would adding a start year parameter make sense?
12:45<V453000>the "slight" differences was meant that way (:
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12:46<Pikka>a start year parameter?
12:46<@Alberth>ie shift everything to the provided start year
12:47<@Alberth>probably not if you assume you're the only set being used
12:47<V453000>I was actually considering making a parameter which would make the game like that patched daylength
12:47<Pikka>I can't see how it makes sense anyway :)
12:47<V453000>just shifting things isnt really doing much indeed
12:48<@Alberth>eg FIRS has other start year than your set
12:48<@Alberth>(no idea if that's really the case)
12:48<V453000>just cause andythenorth doesnt understand nobody cares about furnaces :P
12:49<andythenorth>? o_O
12:49<V453000>year dependent availability of industries is meh :P
12:51<andythenorth>you think?
12:51<andythenorth>I think it works so well :P
12:51<andythenorth>what with reliable industry opening and such
12:51<@Alberth>ships newgrf also have start dates that may be different
12:52<Pikka>I broke the ACS-64 stats
12:53<V453000>Alberth: mixing vehicle sets usually means they are incomplete and thus not self-sufficient anyway :P
12:54<Pinkbeast>I appreciate industry opening dates; it forestalls the point where the whole map is hooked up and there's nothing to do.
12:55<V453000>or just nothing to do because the next industry hasnt arrived yet? :D
12:56<@Alberth>V453000: of course, and that's good probably
12:56<@Alberth>nuts for trains, squid for ships
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13:31<frosch123>i wonder whether i should make a new sv release, just for the translations, or whether i should automate the upload of the sv nightly to bananas
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13:31<@planetmaker>he. The solution for the latter is rather simple. I wonder whether we should actually implement that :D
13:32<frosch123>well, it only makes sense for projects which have no "unstable" phases
13:33<@planetmaker>well, I'd implement it based on a .devzone file which could be added to releases or maybe also to other builds. But I'd not opt (or at least advertise) the latter, I think
13:34<frosch123>well, but how to authenticate?
13:34<@planetmaker>like existence of the .devzone/build/releases/publish
13:34<frosch123>we won't transfer ownership of all projects to openttdcoop :p
13:34<@planetmaker>I would try to push with the openttdcoop account and its credentials. You would have to use musa once and add it to the permissible upload 'persons'
13:35<@planetmaker>oh :( :P
13:35<frosch123>ah, so that is actually possible?
13:35<frosch123>i wouldn't know whether multiple people can upload the same thing
13:35<@planetmaker>that's my understanding, yes. Musa allows to assign several authors which hence would have access
13:36<@Alberth>how many of those projects exist?
13:37<@planetmaker>I don't really know :) A few. But every project can be uploaded by means of musa and thus add new authors
13:37<frosch123>well, most projects only get into that "stable" phase, when the author leaves :p
13:37<@Alberth>(unless 1 such project is sufficient of course :) )
13:37<frosch123>i think a local script is good enough
13:37<@planetmaker>Alberth, by default I'd only use that for releases, thus if it's a tagged version. Thus no daily upload
13:37<frosch123>i don't think it needs devzone support
13:38<frosch123>it's easier to decide the "stable" thing then
13:38<@planetmaker>I might still do that. Just for the sake of my own lazyness
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13:38<@Alberth>ha, always busy trying to be lazy :p
13:38*Alberth does that too :)
13:38<@planetmaker>got me ;)
13:39<frosch123>ofc if can shovel the work onto pm, that's even better :p
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13:41<@planetmaker> @ frosch123 ;)
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13:42<@planetmaker>7 months and no further work... lazy lazy... I was discouraged back then to do so :P
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26936 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2014-09-29 17:45:23 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 1 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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14:17<Wolf01>guys, wait... 0.9.15-RC13 (gnomoria)
14:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26937 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-09-29 18:18:21 UTC)
14:18<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: simplify the logic for heightmap generation in TGP; instead of performing more and more loops the larger the map becomes to elaborately set the height to 0 many times, just run it for each frequency and be done with it
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14:23<andythenorth>tgp is nuts
14:23<andythenorth>I tried patching it once to make alpine landscapes
14:24<andythenorth>V453000: you need to give YETI definite starting and ending points
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14:25<Wolf01>meh, I can only select one option
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14:43<Sylf>andythenorth, I saw that post too :D and loled
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14:53<frosch123>why are so many people in the lomo forum?
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15:00<@peter1138>Maybe it has Canadian graphics?
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15:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26938 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-09-29 19:04:02 UTC)
15:04<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: simplify RandomHeight significantly
15:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26939 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-09-29 19:04:34 UTC)
15:04<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: some bits of coding style cleanup for TGP
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15:22<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26940 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-09-29 19:21:55 UTC)
15:22<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26937): comparing values of different signedness
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15:23*fjb ist getting strange phone calls in the evening. :(
15:24<@planetmaker>strange or advertising?
15:25<fjb>Strange. Nobody speaking, only silent breathing.
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15:27<fjb>Then the phone gets hung up after a few minutes.
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15:28<fjb>It's usually at the landline phone, but was also at my cell phone one time I wasn't at home.
15:30<@planetmaker>strange. Suppressed number or do you know it?
15:30<fjb>Suppressed number, ofcourse.
15:31<fjb>And again...
15:31<Celestar>ask your phone provider for assistance?
15:32<@planetmaker>yeah ^
15:32<fjb>It is the first time I'm getting two calls at one evening.
15:32<__ln__>can they act without orders from the police?
15:32<@planetmaker>and of course you shouldn't have sent away the cashier of the local mafia without payment
15:34<@planetmaker>__ln__, I would expect so. It's your phone line, so it's a valid request to ask them to not allow calls from certain numbers
15:34<@planetmaker>they might know it after all (but not tell you the number)
15:35<fjb>I don't think they are allowed to tell me the number. but myay be they can block it.
15:36<@planetmaker>yup, that's what I mean
15:36<@planetmaker>but of course you could also or additionally go to police
15:36<@planetmaker>and file a complaint for harrassment or however that's called
15:37<Celestar>yo planetmaker
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15:52<fjb>Talked to my phone provider. they offered my a security package, with a monthly fee, that would have enabled me to block every incoming phone call which has a suppressed number. Not very helpful.
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15:57<@planetmaker>you don't happen to have IP telephone or so? It seems I could configure that myself:
16:00<fjb>No, plain old (and usually very good) ISDN.
16:01<__ln__>the obvious problem is that that way also all other suppressed numbers would be blocked too.
16:01<fjb>I could block all calls with suppressed number from within my phone. but I have some relatives who always suppress their number.
16:02<@planetmaker>__ln__, yes, it would. But for me personally that would be likely only a minor annoyance
16:02<fjb>__ln__: That is the problem.
16:06<__ln__>planetmaker: in some unexpected situations that could be a problem, and you wouldn't want to miss the unexpected calls.
16:07<__ln__>for instance, at least over here, if i call the police (112), and a policeman calls me back on a cell phone to ask for details, they'll be calling from a suppressed number.
16:08<fjb>Hm, I should get a sine or noise generator and increase the volume till the other side says something or hangs up.
16:08<fjb>Oh, no.
16:09<__ln__>one should always have a vuvuzela around
16:09<@planetmaker>a vuvuzela a day keeps the people away :P
16:15<FLHerne>"If you or your working area are struck with a nerf disc, blow your vuvuzela."
16:15<fjb>Yes, all people...
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17:37<@peter1138>Whatever happened to diagonal level crossings...
17:38<Pikka>a dingo ate them
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17:41<@peter1138>Also, I wish I could reroute rivers. Which idiot decided that rivers couldn't be made in-game?
17:41<@planetmaker>peter1138, you should ask Eddi|zuHause about those diagonal crossings
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>they work, they just don't have graphics
17:42<@planetmaker>and ingame river building... yes... for 10x price of canals I'm for that. For 5+ years actually. I had that patch but it was rejected back then ;)
17:43<@planetmaker>or we should get rivers which heal themselves
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>building canals should be cheaper
17:43<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, yes. 10x cheaper
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17:43<@peter1138>flowing rivers that flood if you cut them off?
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17:44<@planetmaker>the challenge there is to not flood everything :)
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>should they try to re-flood their old route first? what should they destroy? what happens if all directions are uphill?
17:45<@planetmaker>and should the downstream part simply dry up?
17:47<Pikka>what's the difference between building a river and building a canal? just the graphics?
17:47<@peter1138>yes :S
17:48<@peter1138>Anyway, rivers are mostly non-functional, so cutting them off is no bother.
17:48<@peter1138>It's easier flatten land than to use rivers for ships, or indeed, easier to not even use ships.
17:49<@planetmaker>the functional difference between river and canal is that rivers can be built on (some) slopes
17:49<@planetmaker>canals require flat land - or locks
17:50<@planetmaker>but that's a tiny difference really in terms of game play effect
17:52<Pikka>rivers on slopes aren't traversable by shippes, right?
18:07<@peter1138>BAD FEATURE!
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>make them traversable, but at 1/10 speed?
18:15<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: Ships are no good for speed-critical cargo anyway, and overlapping means it's not a capacity constraint
18:15<@peter1138>Not when I add LOCKS
18:15<FLHerne>Goodbye, locks
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>locks don't always fit in all places
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>need ship lifts for multiple heightlevels
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18:54<Pikka>I appear to have achieved -1 trains :D
18:55<Pikka>I was building a few test trains in a new game, cleared the depot, and that happened. :D
18:58<Pikka>saving and reloading the game fixed it, so I guess it's not a dig beal :)
18:59<@peter1138>Do you have little people and/or big people?
18:59<fjb>If there are 3 trains in a depot and you are deleting 5 you have to buy 2 trains to have an empty depot. :)
19:00<Pikka>probably, peter1138
19:00<Pikka>still have the double-sized buy sprites in pineapple :)
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19:10<Geoff>gentlemen, is there a reason i'd be missing the steel car for trains
19:10<Geoff>as in it's not in the depot list whatsoever
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19:11<Eddi|zuHause>bad combination of NewGRFs
19:14<Geoff>apparently it's opengfx industries
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19:15<Pikka>no steel cars with the default vehicles except in temperate
19:15<Pikka>if you're using something like opengfx+ trains, you might have cars that can refit to steel though.
19:16<Geoff>no carriages that i can see
19:16<Pikka>might have to get a train newgrf, then :)
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 30 00:00:32 2014