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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-04

---Logopened Sat Oct 04 00:00:38 2014
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01:42<andythenorth>what ho
01:44<Supercheese>what hoagie
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02:20<Pokka>which how?
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02:25<Pikka>andythenorth, whatwhenwhowhyhow?
02:25<Supercheese>the now brown cow, of course
02:25<Pikka>oh
02:25<Pikka>hoo noo
02:25<Pikka>broon coo
02:37<andythenorth>is it done then?
02:37<andythenorth>did you stay up all day?
02:39-!-Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd
02:39<andythenorth>Pikka: my advice, don’t draw bulkhead flats with stakes
02:39<Pikka>mm, steaks
02:40<andythenorth>lodes
02:40<andythenorth>for lode states
02:40<andythenorth>are a PITA now
02:40<Pikka>si
02:40<Pikka>I think I've finished the passenger wogans
02:40<Pikka>silly passenger wogans
02:40<Pikka>I want a dome car in 10cc now :)
02:41<Pikka>dome cars are fancy
02:42<@planetmaker>moin
02:42<Pikka>moin pm
02:44<andythenorth>fancy dome
02:45<andythenorth>how about a Köln Dom car? o_O
02:45<@planetmaker>new set, Pikka ?
02:45-!-Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:46<Pikka>old set, planetmaker
02:46<Pikka>NARS recode
02:46<@planetmaker>hm, recode?
02:46<@planetmaker>what's the deal with recode?
02:46<Pikka>starting over is easier than picking out the BAD FEATURES
02:47<Pikka>copy and paste sprite blocks from the old set, write new code around them :)
02:47<@planetmaker>:)
02:47<@planetmaker>nars2.5?
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02:47<Pikka>how did you guess? :)
02:48<@planetmaker>:)
02:48<andythenorth>no zellepins though :(
02:48<Pikka>in NARS?
02:50-!-Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd
02:51<andythenorth>yes
02:51<andythenorth>zellepin car
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03:06*Pikka bbeventually
03:06<Pikka>latarz
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04:20<Wolf01>hi hi
04:22<@Alberth>moin
04:26<andythenorth>lo Alberth
04:27<@Alberth>hi andy
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04:39*andythenorth makes trains
04:39<andythenorth>these load states you all like so much
04:39<andythenorth>take fricking ages :)
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04:40<@Alberth>but they're beautiful!
04:41<@Alberth>no simple way to automate at least most of it?
04:41<@planetmaker>do we need, additionally to the 'play me' button also a 'create game' button? :) meta-meta gaming? :)
04:41<argoneus>good morning, train friends
04:41<@planetmaker>also hello Alberth et al :)
04:42<argoneus>wow
04:42<@Alberth>eg draw background, draw top of cargo, draw front?
04:42<argoneus>you reduced my glorious name to some latin buzzword
04:42<argoneus>I will remember this
04:43<andythenorth>I have automated bulk cargo colouring
04:43<andythenorth>and I could automate the other loads
04:43<andythenorth>but setting up the automation ~= drawing
04:43<@planetmaker>:)
04:43<andythenorth>automation is better if the sprites change though...
04:43<@planetmaker>drawing steel coils etc is hard to automate?
04:43<andythenorth>nah
04:43<@planetmaker>hm... rendering :D
04:44<@Alberth>all these 32bpp lovers around here :p
04:45<argoneus>I just realized RGB covers only 24 bit colors
04:45<argoneus>where did the other 8 bits go
04:45<argoneus>alpha?
04:45<@Alberth>they hide in the opacities
04:45<@Alberth>at least in some formats :)
04:47<@Alberth>or the last byte is ignored, alignment at 32bit makes things way easier and faster
04:47<@planetmaker>indeed. RGB is obviously 3 bytes while RGBA is four :)
04:47<argoneus>oh
04:48<argoneus>I was wondering this
04:48<argoneus>when I was trying to learn SDL etc.
04:48<argoneus>I've read people suggest that in a tile-based game, tile size should be a power of two
04:48<argoneus>16x16, 32x32, 64x64, for 'performance' reasons
04:48<argoneus>is this a myth or does it actually matter?
04:48<argoneus>I never really found any explanation for it
04:50<@Alberth>it's mostly founded in the CPU itself, with buses to memory etc
04:50<argoneus>so it's easier for the CPU to deal with calculations in power of two?
04:51<@Alberth>not the CPU itself, but eg video memory is not on the CPU chip
04:51<@Alberth>it's outside the CPU, so the CPU needs to write data to it
04:51<@Alberth>which basically means "write value V to address X"
04:52<@Alberth>if your data crosses address-boundaries, you need 2 writes at least
04:52<@Alberth>if you also want to keep the parts of the value you don't want to write to, you first have to read the values as well
04:53<argoneus>oh
04:53<@Alberth>thus read at x to v1, read at x+1 to v2, fixup v1 and v2 to the new values, write new v1 to x, write new v2 to x+1
04:53<argoneus>so it's not as much that 48x48 is less performant than 32x32 or 64x64, but 48x48 will have the same perf. results as 64x64?
04:54<@Alberth>depends on the size of a value
04:54<argoneus>but reading about all this
04:54<@peter1138>traditionally, powers of 2 were easier to compute
04:54<argoneus>I feel like for the older systems
04:54<argoneus>the developers did some crazy optimizations
04:54<@peter1138>i haven't benchmarked it to see if it's still the case
04:55<@peter1138>multiplication to a power of 2 can be reduced to a shift instruction
04:55<argoneus>isn't that multiplication in general?
04:55<@Alberth>it still holds for things like multiplication and division, since CPUs compute in powers of 2
04:56<argoneus>1100 (12) * 2 -> 11000 (24)
04:56<@Alberth>argoneus: yes, powers of 2
04:56<@Alberth>it fails eg for * 3
04:56<argoneus>ohhh, I read it wrong
04:56<argoneus>I read "multiplication of a power of 2"
04:57<@planetmaker>peter1138, yeah as it can be shifted it should still be quicker and remain so
04:57<@peter1138>planetmaker, i've not benchmarked them :)
04:57<argoneus>but would the performance on such a thing matter today?
04:57<@planetmaker>I haven't either, but the last time I looked up the performance benchmark it was significant difference there
04:57<argoneus>(most gamedev studios would probably say "nah, just buy a better computer")
04:58<@Alberth>argoneus: it depends on how fast you want to go
04:58<@planetmaker>https://gmplib.org/~tege/x86-timing.pdf
04:58<argoneus>I mean
04:58<argoneus>how did people make 48x48 tiles, then, to keep the performance?
04:58<argoneus>make them 64x64 and downscale?
04:58<argoneus>or is that even worse
04:59<@Alberth>probably just do 48x48, it's not exactly as bad as 64x64
04:59<@Alberth>at least 16 rows are skipped
05:00<@peter1138>I don't think it's something you need to worry about these days.
05:00<@Alberth>indeed
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05:02<@planetmaker>we do with our map array :)
05:02<@peter1138>Have you ever benchmarked a non-power of 2 map?
05:04<@planetmaker>no. Just saying that our code says we do worry :)
05:04<Eddi|zuHause>non-power-of-two multidimensional arrays make calculation of indices complicated
05:05<@planetmaker>though map size is also different... it's how our variable is stored
05:05<@planetmaker>changing that could again break newgrf :P
05:05<Eddi|zuHause>and non-power-of-two array entries just get pumped up to power-of-two alignment
05:07<@Alberth>I doubt 129 bytes become 256 bytes :)
05:08<@peter1138>planetmaker, that pdf seems to ignore any core i3-5 & 7 range.
05:08<@planetmaker>so it seems. Just the first somewhat suitable hit on google :P
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05:09<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: depends on processor architecture :p
05:09<@peter1138>Weird for a document dated this year.
05:09<@peter1138>It also mentions Sandy Bridge in the change log, but no where else.
05:09<@planetmaker>academia... scraped the old machines of the IT department probably
05:09<@peter1138>Hmm, actually, Intel SBR... Sandy Bridge?
05:10<@peter1138>HWL... Haswell
05:10<@peter1138>They've made up their own codenames :(
05:11<argoneus>haswell can compete with nvidia gpus
05:11<argoneus>in terms of how fast they start melting things around them
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05:12<argoneus>I swear, I wouldn't think my cpu should be able to go to 95C while benchmarking
05:12<argoneus>but it's normal, because haswell
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05:24<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe you should upgrade your cooling?
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05:26*andythenorth should upgrade his coffee
05:26<andythenorth>also, what shall we make today?
05:27<Eddi|zuHause>the same thing we make every day, pinky.
05:27<argoneus>Eddi|zuHause: I have a hyper 212 evo
05:28<argoneus>it doesn't get past 70C while gaming
05:28<argoneus>80C is safe for haswell
05:28<argoneus>but benchmarks melt it
05:28<argoneus>even video rendering doesn't push 75C
05:28<argoneus>but benchmarks do
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05:28<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: does that make you Brain?
05:29<Eddi|zuHause>somewhat
05:29<andythenorth>also can anyone fix my bugs?
05:29<andythenorth>and shall I ship a new Iron Horse?
05:29<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: i've really no clue how you're doing that, i have "trouble" getting my computer to 60 on full load, and i already reduced fan speesds
05:29<andythenorth>questions questions
05:29<argoneus>Eddi|zuHause: do you have a haswell cpu?
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>does that matter?
05:30<argoneus>yes it does
05:30<argoneus>haswell is ~10C hotter than the 3rd gen
05:30<argoneus>my old phenom II didn't get hot at all
05:31<argoneus>it was like 55C while rendering
05:31<argoneus>also, Eddi|zuHause, there are different types of full load
05:31<Eddi|zuHause>like i said, all you're saying is that your cooling is insufficient
05:31<argoneus>do you mean full load as in rendering video for example
05:31<argoneus>or actual benchmarks
05:31<andythenorth>could we teach industries to plant their own trees?
05:31<argoneus>I bet if you run linpack for 10 minutes
05:31<argoneus>you will reach inhuman temperatures too
05:32<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: same way as when we discussed that same topic 3 years ago :p
05:32<argoneus>I mean
05:32<andythenorth>got a logs link? o_O
05:32<andythenorth>I like the sawmill behaviour
05:32<argoneus>I get 40C idle, 60C gaming, 70C full normal load
05:32<argoneus>that's not really hot
05:33<andythenorth>I don’t like planting trees
05:33<Eddi|zuHause>something about custom fields, i presume
05:33<andythenorth>yeah
05:33<andythenorth>but tmwftlb
05:33<andythenorth>presumably we already have a tree planting loop?
05:33<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but that's why the sawmill is available in tropic only, where trees grow 257 times as fast
05:34<andythenorth>oic
05:34<Eddi|zuHause>normal tree loop plants a tree every 256 tile loops
05:34<Eddi|zuHause>tropic tree loop plants an additional tree every tile loop
05:35<@peter1138>Remember when fields used to stay around after the farm disappeared?
05:35<andythenorth>yes
05:35<andythenorth>nice
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>now they complete one growth cycle and then disappear?
05:36<@peter1138>yeah
05:36<@peter1138>looks odd
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>would make newgrf fields easier if they were removed immediately on close
05:37<@peter1138>someone™ should make them turn to dirt and then slowly to grass and then trees and then the hedges/fences go away slowlyt
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>except for the hedges/fences part that's only one function call :p
05:38<@peter1138>true
05:38<andythenorth>someone should just run the explosion sprite on every tile of an industry when it closes
05:39<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, just keep a reference to the industry around until all the tiles are gone?
05:39<@peter1138>the tiles already know which industry they belong to, iirc
05:40<andythenorth>2 mins to compile Iron Horse :(
05:40<andythenorth>fricking slow
05:40<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: but what if the tiles have a cycle that doesn't actually get to a "close down" state?
05:40<andythenorth>it’s only got ~50 vehicles in it
05:41<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: yes, i think the problem was that things like newgrf variables cannot be resolved anymore after the industry closed
05:41<@peter1138>only because the industry has gone
05:41<@peter1138>so introduce an industry-closing stage
05:42<@peter1138>lot of effort for fields
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and have a time limit how long "fields" can linger, if they don't shut down themselves
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>(where "fields" could also be meadows, trees, power lines, ...)
05:43<@peter1138>batteries
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>i've not spent more than 5 minutes in toyland :p
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>over the past 10 years or so :p
05:44<andythenorth>child no. 1 likes toyland
05:44<andythenorth>but prefers ‘normal land'
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05:45<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: opengfx-toyland?
05:46<andythenorth>not so much
05:46<andythenorth>opengfx not so much around here
05:47<@peter1138>hmm, weird, houses in the middle of nowhere :S
05:49<andythenorth>o_O
05:50<andythenorth>hmm loads of ottd commits
05:50*andythenorth pulls
05:51<@peter1138>Just languages.
05:53<andythenorth>sprite aligner
05:53<andythenorth>stuff
05:53<andythenorth>also I can’t get Iron Horse 1.2.0 to show in my game :(
05:53<andythenorth>bit odd
05:53<andythenorth>maybe I broke it
05:53<@peter1138>reddit is scary, i keep agreeing with V453000 on it :S
05:54<andythenorth>scary indeed
05:58*andythenorth broke bananas
05:58<frosch123>do the 8bpp lovers also love 1x zoom?
05:58<frosch123>V453000: why do you provide the 8bpp sprites only in 1x zoom?
05:58<frosch123>is that what people want? or do you confuse zoom levels with colour depths?
05:59<@peter1138>Provide them in 4x zoom, and you won't get the blue fringe.
05:59<frosch123>or do the ottd-scaled sprites look bad? :p
06:00<__ln__>fonsinchen: <fonsinchen> maybe. The _LA part doesn't make any sense as there is no such country as 'LA' (or maybe it's Los Angeles). <--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laos
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06:33<frosch123>pff, still no proper testcase for optimising nml
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06:34<frosch123>while iron-horse takes 120 seconds to compile, only 6 seconds are spend in nml
06:34<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: some older CETS?
06:34<frosch123>the rest is some andy magic
06:34<Eddi|zuHause>before i took out all the expressions
06:35<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: does it have separate nml files?
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>back then it didn't
06:35<frosch123>i want to look into a proper partial compile + linking apprach
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06:35<frosch123>i could still use iron-horse though, it seems to have the right souces
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>you can try current CETS, it depends on eddi-nml though (which adds the "comment" construct)
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>that has loads of nml files
06:37<frosch123>or i work on the yeti memory issue, that at least has a proper reason and fixing plan :)
06:37<andythenorth>frosch123: Iron Horse is the wrong case
06:37<andythenorth>it’s already been ‘optimised’
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06:37<Eddi|zuHause>which are output to nfo, and then combined to be fed into grfcodec
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>grfcodec on full CETS is also not instant :)
06:38<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: yeti takes 30 minutes to compile with grfcodec; it takes 8 seconds with nml if the spritecache is ready :p
06:38<andythenorth>frosch123: also most of the 120 seconds are in nml
06:38<frosch123>so, the potential is in nml
06:38<frosch123>you just have to awake it :)
06:38<andythenorth>Iron Horse uses identical method to CETS
06:38<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/embiggen.png o_O
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes, the difference between CETS and YETI is that in CETS the code is huge, and in YETI the graphics are huge
06:39<frosch123>andythenorth: my measurement says 6 seconds, which is not 'most of 120 seconds
06:39<frosch123>either your or my measurement is wrong then :p
06:39<andythenorth>your measurement is wrong :)
06:39<frosch123>ok, then i will add more details
06:39<andythenorth>try FIRS instead
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06:39<andythenorth>I gave up on partial compiles with FIRS
06:40<andythenorth>I don’t think it’s actually possible without changing the design
06:40<@peter1138>ooh, objects window needs love
06:40<andythenorth>possible / possible without significant risk of compile failing :P
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: eddi-nml is now up to date
06:41<V453000>frosch123: well, 8bpp x1 is mandatory, 32bpp x4 is additional ... I dont see much point in adding 8bpp x4 because mostly people either want 8bpp and same amount of pixels in zooms in compare to the rest of the world, or full 32bpp, with extra zoom, regardless how the rest looks
06:42<V453000>ottd-scaled sprites aint that bad
06:42<V453000>peter1138: the blue fringe will be removed with some more fiddling :)
06:43<Eddi|zuHause>CETS seems to compile so far
06:44<@peter1138>V453000, i forgot old-1x is mandatory
06:44<V453000>yeah :d
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>one of those legacy thingies
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>i wonder why that was actually done
06:45<V453000>I honestly didnt even think about making 8bpp x4
06:45<V453000>doesnt seem useful to me
06:46<V453000>people only turn on 8bpp blitter because they want 32bpp newGRFs to fit better with old 8bpp newGRFs, both zoom and palette wise
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06:47<andythenorth>frosch123: there are a lot of python subprocess calls to nmlc
06:47<andythenorth>in Iron Horse
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06:50<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, might be necessary if you have some zoom levels disabled. Dunno though.
06:51<@planetmaker><peter1138> ooh, objects window needs love <-- I actually think our main toolbar should gain a button which allows building objects
06:51<@planetmaker>people constantly ask where they can build that stuff
06:51<V453000>if you disable zoom levels and use YETI in 32bpp, it will just downscale it I believe
06:51<@peter1138>I'm only talking 2x GUI :)
06:52<@peter1138>I'd completely forgotten about it, as I never use objects.
06:52<andythenorth>what are objects?
06:53<@peter1138>Exactly
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>Error on sprite 65540. <-- i wonder why that is still there... that was fixed ages ago
06:53<@peter1138>65540 ...
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>yes. it references the sprite 65536, and nforenum barfs on that
06:54<andythenorth>105s compile, 101s in nml and grfcodec
06:54<@peter1138>Limitation disturbs me very sprites
06:54<andythenorth>Iron Horse is a bad test case though
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06:54<@peter1138>Goes it throw out limitation?
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06:56<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: if you wanna have a stab at partially-compiling CETS, the autogenerated file combine_engines.sh currently handles the merging, and filtering out the multiply present headers
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06:57<andythenorth>also is makefile, unlike IH which does same thing in python
06:58<@peter1138>http://i.imgur.com/7FAmoCg.gif
06:58<andythenorth>:D
07:01<andythenorth>nice embiggen also
07:02<andythenorth>who drew those shameful boots?
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07:41<frosch123>hmm, now i get 130s compile = 52s andy magic + 23s spawning sub-processes + 54s in nml
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07:43<@planetmaker>probably you need osx ;)
07:44<andythenorth>:P
07:45<andythenorth>I maintain that you should profile one of the grfs that doesn’t have a mental partial compile using grfcodec ;)
07:45<andythenorth>bad science
07:45<frosch123>andythenorth: problem is that all grfs that take long do something weird, in a different way to all others
07:45<@planetmaker>:)
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07:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26950 trunk/src/object_gui.cpp (2014-10-04 11:49:05 UTC)
07:49<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: GUI-scale dancing for NewGRF objects window.
07:49<@peter1138>hmm, what's left
07:49<frosch123>a font gui :p
07:49<@peter1138>hah
07:50<@peter1138>i'll just double up the sprite font :D
07:50<@peter1138>(not really)
07:53<andythenorth>frosch123: try FIRS
07:53<andythenorth>it’s more amenable to profiling
07:53<andythenorth>less weird
07:53<andythenorth>there’s a templating step, but nothing crazy
07:53<@planetmaker>or nuts
07:53<@planetmaker>or cets
07:53<andythenorth>cets isn’t valid
07:53<@planetmaker>and in the end you could always do compilation on pre-processed output
07:54<andythenorth>yes
07:54<@planetmaker>but that won't show the weiredness going on in order to arrive at the pre-processed output
07:54<andythenorth>FIRS assembles one .nml file
07:54<andythenorth>the weirdness is non-significant in time for me and Eddi
07:54<frosch123>hmm, ok, found the most time usage in a function that i neglected earlier :p
07:54<andythenorth>it’s provably slow nmlc
07:55<andythenorth>and the time increases out of proportion to input file length
07:55<@planetmaker>andythenorth, if half of the time is spent in pre-processing it's irrelevant? <frosch123> hmm, now i get 130s compile = 52s andy magic + 23s spawning sub-processes + 54s in nml
07:56<andythenorth>he’s profiling wrong :)
07:56<andythenorth>actually maybe not in that case
07:56<andythenorth>I should check
07:56*andythenorth checks
07:57<frosch123>ah, ugly code formatting
07:57<frosch123>nml source was hiding a function call in the dark :p
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07:58<andythenorth>ok so templating is _slow_ for Iron Horse
07:59<andythenorth>definitely
07:59<andythenorth>I think chameleon hates something about the way I’m loading templates
08:00<frosch123>andythenorth: you call nml too often
08:00<frosch123>that's your issue :)
08:00<andythenorth>I do?
08:00<andythenorth>where?
08:01<andythenorth>I only have one call to it
08:01<frosch123>you spend 77 seconds in executing nmlc, 68 seconds of that are in the startup of nmlc, indpednent of input
08:02<andythenorth>like I said, Iron Horse is a bad test case ;)
08:02<andythenorth>it has a partial compile
08:02<frosch123>23 seconds for spawning the process and loading python, 45 seconds to initialise nml
08:02<andythenorth>try make NO_MP=False COMPILE_FASTER=True
08:02<andythenorth>what’s the commonest compile cases when developing a grf?
08:03<andythenorth>o_O
08:03<frosch123>andythenorth: your solution is to not spawn nml multiple times, but to make nml process multiple files
08:03<andythenorth>avoiding the startup overhead?
08:03<frosch123>exactly
08:03<andythenorth>I couldn’t see how to make nmlc process multiple files in parallel
08:04<andythenorth>this is optimised for the cases of (1) ‘changed graphics, no code changed’ (2) changed single vehicle properties
08:04<frosch123>andythenorth: nml has a main function, which calls a "nml" function with the parameters
08:04<andythenorth>it may well be negative-optimised for the case of whole grf compile
08:05<frosch123>just invent a new command line syntax to pass multiple input and output files
08:05<andythenorth>and move the multiprocessing calls inside nmlc?
08:05<andythenorth>with a -j flag or such?
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08:06<frosch123>andythenorth: no, instead of spawning nml 70 times for 70 files, spawn in 7 times with 10 files each
08:06<andythenorth>yes that would be smart
08:08<andythenorth>just fill up queues and dispatch them
08:10<andythenorth>whenever I touch multiprocessing, I think of this http://thecodelesscode.com/case/126?topic=thread+safety
08:10<frosch123>hmm, ok, actually this issue appleis to every partial compile strategy
08:11<frosch123>we won't be able to change nml start-up times to less than 0.6 seconds
08:11<frosch123>if we split nml into single files per vehicle, we will get 100 files, and > 60 seconds compile time
08:12<andythenorth>for a full re-compile
08:12<andythenorth>assuming no checking if file is changed
08:13<frosch123>if one wants to optimise that by calling nml for multiple files at once, that totally breaks the Makefile approach
08:13<frosch123>doesn't it?
08:13<andythenorth>I think so
08:13<frosch123>so, how to proceed? make the Makefile more complicated to collect nml calls somehow? or abandon makefile and make nmlc behave like javac with custom dependency resolution?
08:14<andythenorth>which approach is more tractable?
08:14<andythenorth>done > correct
08:15<frosch123>i guess it needs figuring out how likely a full compile actually is
08:15<frosch123>i.e. can we avoid a full compile when changing english.txt :)
08:15<andythenorth>well
08:15<andythenorth>currently not, due to string handling :P
08:15<andythenorth>train_1.png shouldn’t require a recompile though
08:16<andythenorth>that is working brilliantly for Iron Horse, however hokey the implementation :)
08:17<andythenorth>I can change any pngs and come out with a <10s compile, including pixa processing
08:17<andythenorth>hence Iron Horse gets shipped faster :)
08:18<andythenorth>I also have a hack in FIRS that just turns off all industries except one
08:18<andythenorth>which breaks a few things, but is needed for testing industry layouts, sprites etc
08:31<fjb>Moin
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08:41<@peter1138>Blah at offsets
08:43<@peter1138>Hmm, helicopters are fine :S
08:43<andythenorth>+1
08:43*andythenorth fixing buy menu
08:45<andythenorth>should vehicles overlap, or be clipped for height?
08:46<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> if we split nml into single files per vehicle, we will get 100 files, and > 60 seconds compile time <-- that's still faster than 5 minutes for reading a 1MB file, and throwing an OOM because nmlc (or ply) need 4GB RAM
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, gtg...
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: if you have a saner method of processing headers without duplicating them in the final grf, i can ditch eddi-nml
08:49<@peter1138>Apparently drawing a 4x airport preview sprite is... slow?
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08:59<@peter1138>dbg: [sprite] Fixing lru 165223, inuse=29193560
08:59<@peter1138>hmm
09:01<@peter1138>so the LRU counter goes haywir
09:01<@peter1138>+e
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09:04<@Alberth>either that, or you're drawing sprites straight from the hard disk :p
09:05<@peter1138>i don't even know what it's for
09:05<@peter1138>Well, not precisely.l
09:08<@peter1138>Okay...
09:09<@peter1138>I took out the DrawSprite call, and it's still laggy :p
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09:11<@peter1138>huh... if i move the window mostly offscreen... it stops being laggy
09:11<@peter1138>and if i bring the window back... it's still not laggy
09:14<@peter1138>hmm, sometimes it is.
09:15<@peter1138>hmmmmmm
09:15<@peter1138>and if my game window is larger... no problem
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09:32<Bobjr>Hey guys! I have a weird problem and I was hoping you could help me
09:33<@Alberth>o/
09:33<Bobjr>So I am running the opengfx graphics package (Just so we are all on the same page) and my water is blinking.
09:33<Bobjr>Like if I zoom out all the water is constantly blinking/refreshing
09:33<Bobjr>Like the movement of the water is causing a color change?
09:33<Bobjr>Hello Alberth!
09:33<frosch123>that's how it is supposed to work
09:34<frosch123>disable "full animation" in settings, if it annoys you
09:34<Bobjr>Oh cool. Yeah it was annoying me quite a bit :P
09:35<Bobjr>Thank you very much
09:36<@peter1138>You'll miss out on the other animations though.
09:37<Bobjr>Hm. Its weird I never noticed that the ocean moved like that
09:37<Bobjr>Till today
09:38<@planetmaker>:)
09:38<frosch123>gah, dynamically typed languages :/
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10:14<andythenorth>@seen danmack
10:14<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 12 hours, 54 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
10:14<SpComb>http://pngtile.qmsk.net/terom/openttd/20121229/ yay look it's in production now!
10:14<andythenorth>ugly boats you have there
10:17<@peter1138>Wait a minute, that game looks familiar...
10:21<__ln__>yeah, it resembles TTD
10:21<frosch123>it has unusual zoom levels though
10:22<frosch123>SpComb: that's a screenshot right, no running game?
10:22<frosch123>ah yeah, the url says so
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10:26<andythenorth>hmm
10:26<@peter1138>pikka was green, spcomb red, me peach, andy blue
10:26<@peter1138>skiddles brown
10:27<@peter1138>and someone grey
10:27<andythenorth>templating on Road Hog is insanely faster than templating on Iron Horse
10:27<@peter1138>scrolls a bit quicker in ottd :D
10:27<andythenorth>same templater, same approach
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10:41<MTsPony>hi all. where is it suitable to point to the author of
10:41<MTsPony>and license file fr
10:41<MTsPony>errr
10:41<MTsPony>when using a heightmap or parts of it as a server maintainer?
10:42<frosch123>if you load a savegame the viewport always points to the same location you saved the game with
10:42<frosch123>that also applies to all joining clients
10:43<frosch123>you can use that to put signs with text there
10:43<andythenorth>hmm just found 5s of slow in a 21s templating step
10:43<frosch123>or you can run a bot to respond on commands
10:43<MTsPony>can i put it in the message when someone joins the server? would that be appropriate?
10:44*andythenorth wonders if python is passing around copies of the vehicle object
10:44<andythenorth>with setup overhead every time
10:44<frosch123>MTsPony: sure, why not?
10:44<MTsPony>kthx :)
10:50<Bobjr>Can a cargo ship pick up gold?
10:53<Bobjr>Because my cargo ships just kinda parks at the port that is right next to the gold mine and then sails away
10:53<Bobjr>No cargo onboard
10:53<Bobjr>And the dock says it supplies gold
10:53<@peter1138>is the ship refitted to gold?
10:53<Bobjr>You have to refit a cargo ship?
10:53<Bobjr>Wow alright, I see now
10:54<Bobjr>Sorry i'm new, didn't know that it worked that way, haha
10:54<@peter1138>no worries :)
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11:18<andythenorth>frosch123: maybe not now, but Iron Horse templating step might be a little faster now
11:19<andythenorth>at least for me, 38s vs 54s or so (using single process)
11:19<andythenorth>might be faster on second run, due to compilation of templates to python byte code
11:21<andythenorth>would be interested to know if you see any difference at all (but don’t worry if you’re doing other stuff)
11:25*peter1138 boggles
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11:32<andythenorth>hmm
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11:48<andythenorth>hmm
11:49<andythenorth>just found a single function that accounts for 34s of a 38s processing time
11:50<andythenorth>specifically this is super slow: if year in range(variant.intro_date, variant.end_date):
11:50<andythenorth>ah
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11:51<andythenorth>intro_date min value is 0
11:51<andythenorth>end_date max value is 5000001
11:51<andythenorth>that’s….slow
11:53<andythenorth>:P
11:53<andythenorth> if year >= variant.intro_date and year < variant.end_date:
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11:54<@Alberth>should be a tad quicker :p
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11:57<andythenorth>ridiculously faster
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11:57<@peter1138>Ah, it's bjarni-code from r8770
11:57<@peter1138>7 years :S
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11:58<andythenorth>38s -> 5s for single process compile
11:58<andythenorth>21s -> 2.5s for multiprocess compile
11:59<@Alberth>find a few more such things for speedup :)
11:59<@peter1138>16:50 < andythenorth> specifically this is super slow: if year in range(variant.intro_date, variant.end_date):
11:59<andythenorth>I’ve been commenting stuff in and out
11:59<@peter1138>does it put a switch entry in for each year or something?
11:59<andythenorth>it’s building a random switch
11:59<andythenorth>in that case
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12:00<@peter1138>-Fix r8661: corrected some aircraft sprite placement issues in the depot window
12:00<andythenorth>the resulting switch only has 2 or 3 actual switch options
12:00<@Alberth>'range' builds a list with every value in the range. Then you linearly search for the yeat
12:00<@peter1138>+ y + max(spr->height + spr->y_offs - 14, 0), // tall sprites needs an y offset
12:00<@peter1138>i wonder which "tall" sprites this affectrs
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12:01<@peter1138>seems to me it will only affect talls sprites which have an incorrect offset...
12:01<@peter1138>-s
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12:04<andythenorth>just break it and see who complains
12:04<andythenorth>wonder how I could teach my compile a -j option
12:05<andythenorth>dunno, sounds like shlex
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12:09<andythenorth>hmm
12:09<andythenorth>odd result
12:10<andythenorth>using python multiprocessing pool results in compile in ~30s instead of ~60s
12:10<andythenorth>even if the pool contains only 1 worker
12:13<@peter1138>Well the height scaling thing doesn't work right anyway
12:14<@peter1138>(And never did)
12:14<andythenorth>stupid editor, it defaults to show .orig files after a revert
12:14<@peter1138>So I'll take that out and if it's needed, it can be done properly :p
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12:18*andythenorth wonders if pool.join() causes block until all workers complete
12:18<andythenorth>also give me my cpus back please
12:19<@peter1138>They're overrated.
12:34<LordAro>workers, or cpus?
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12:38<andythenorth>that fix cuts Road Hog compile time in half too
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12:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26951 /trunk/src (10 files) (2014-10-04 16:40:23 UTC)
12:40<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Do the GUI-scale dance for vehicle, depot, and purchase lists.
12:41<andythenorth>\o/
12:43<andythenorth>frosch123: so due to your profiling, I just made 3 grfs compile faster :D
12:43<andythenorth>thanks
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12:44<frosch123>yay, i shoveled work on someone :)
12:45<@Alberth>and he thanks you for it :p
12:45<@Rubidium>so how many compiles do you need to do to break even?
12:45<frosch123>i think i am 50% done with yeti memory fix
12:45<@Rubidium>... queue obligatory xkcd link
12:46<andythenorth>it’s funny
12:46<andythenorth>even though I have spent a few hours poking at compiles
12:46<andythenorth>it was fun
12:46-!-shansen [~shansen@212.17.41.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:47<andythenorth>and I learnt some things
12:47<@Rubidium>true
12:47<andythenorth>so doing cost-benefit on the time
12:47<andythenorth>I come out ahead :P
12:47<@Rubidium>lots of things we do here won't have much benefit w.r.t. that xkcd link
12:47<andythenorth>also, when I want to see if a change is working in game, faster compile is worth £$€
12:47<andythenorth>especially if I want to get it done and go to sleep :P
12:47<@peter1138>so what's the total cost?
12:48<andythenorth>20p
12:48<andythenorth>value of compiles increases exponentially after 11pm
12:48<andythenorth>also
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12:48<@Rubidium>$ 7,814,042 ?
12:48<andythenorth>canadian, or US?
12:49<@Rubidium>probably US
12:49<@Rubidium>although... apparantly the master server + content server are worth more than half a million
12:50<@Rubidium>(more than grfcodec + nforenum combined)
12:50<@Rubidium>hmm... never mind
12:50<@peter1138>andythenorth, *sigh* i mean total compile time before and after your optimizations.
12:51<@Rubidium>apparantly coverity left some stuff, so the master + content server are only worth a quarter of a million ;(
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12:53<@Alberth>(17:58:37) andythenorth: 38s -> 5s for single process compile
12:53<@Alberth>(17:58:46) andythenorth: 21s -> 2.5s for multiprocess compile
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12:54<@peter1138>3Yeah that's slightly faster.
12:54<@peter1138>Didn't I see 130s earlier?
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13:09<andythenorth>114s from a cold cache
13:09<@peter1138>But that's rare I guess
13:09<andythenorth>yeah
13:09<andythenorth>testing with warm cache
13:10<@peter1138>So what's the point of marico?
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13:12<andythenorth>because people love it
13:13<andythenorth>peter1138: you never had this? http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/OO%20Latest/MinicShips.htm
13:13<andythenorth>my uncle had some
13:13<@peter1138>Nope.
13:14<@peter1138>In summary, newobjects are about as useful as newstations...
13:14<@Rubidium>but newobjects don't fill the "small" static station table of TTDP
13:14<frosch123>they are there, so you can reduce station spread to prevent coop style cheating
13:15<andythenorth>hmm, that compile was 155s
13:15<@peter1138>heh
13:16*peter1138 fiddles with AIs and finds another bit that needs to be fixed for GUI-scale :p
13:18<andythenorth>new compile is 124s cold cache, 72s warm cache
13:18<@peter1138>And 2.5s when?
13:19*andythenorth tests more
13:19<andythenorth>41s with 16 worker processes
13:20<andythenorth>6.5s if only graphics are changed
13:20<andythenorth>2.5s was the fastest time for just the templating step
13:20<andythenorth>but there’s make, grfcodec, docs, etc
13:21<andythenorth>vanilla nmlc has zero capability to check deps
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13:22<andythenorth>so for a single changed pixel, it will re-compile everything
13:22<@peter1138>hmm, installing civilai doesn't install pathfinder.road
13:22<andythenorth>nmlc does have a sprite cache though o_O
13:22<andythenorth>anyway, grfcodec ftw
13:22<@peter1138>ah
13:23<andythenorth>if we want to get away from crazy andythenorth partial compiles, we could start by teaching nmlc to dep check
13:24<@Rubidium>just implementa sprite cache for grfcodec ;)
13:24<andythenorth>o_O
13:25<@peter1138>Hmm, wonder what town cars are needed...
13:25*andythenorth wonders what the nmlc sprite cache caches
13:26<@Rubidium>the compressed sprite AFAIR
13:26<andythenorth>it’s all just squiggles to me :D
13:29<andythenorth>the makefile seems to have about 3s startup time
13:29<andythenorth>interesting
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13:33<andythenorth>if I circumvent make, a sprites only compile is 0.8s
13:33<andythenorth>maybe I write a local script to do that
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26952 trunk/src/lang/japanese.txt (2014-10-04 17:45:15 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese - 54 changes by guppy
13:51<@peter1138>Hmm, what do I need to do to get the unread news icon on the status bar?
13:51<frosch123>set news to "off"
13:52<frosch123>iirc it flashes when a news item spawns, which is filtered, and only goes to message history
13:53<@peter1138>errr
13:53<@peter1138>newspaper: off < still getting the newspaper popup
13:53<@peter1138>nice, found a bug those :D
13:53<@peter1138>...
13:54<@peter1138>nice, found a bug though :D
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14:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26953 trunk/src/news_gui.cpp (2014-10-04 18:13:10 UTC)
14:13<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: GUI-scale for company manager face on news popup.
14:19<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26954 /trunk/src (ai/ai_gui.cpp newgrf_gui.cpp) (2014-10-04 18:19:22 UTC)
14:19<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: GUI-scale for AI/GS settings and NewGRF settings windows.
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15:23<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26955 /trunk (3 files in 2 dirs) (2014-10-04 19:23:43 UTC)
15:23<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6126]: owner of road depot road types were not properly changed upon bankruptcy causing crashes when trying to remove the depot in certain situations
15:28<Supercheese>What on Earth is going on with the train depot tooltip, "Trains - drag vehicle with left-click to add/remove from train, right-click for information. Hold Ctrl to make both functions apply to the following chain"
15:28<Supercheese>What is "both functions" referring to?
15:29<Supercheese>I get that Ctrl allows you to remove the remaining cars from a trian
15:29<Supercheese>after the one dragged
15:29<Supercheese>but what is the other "function"?
15:29<Supercheese>train*
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15:30<frosch123>Supercheese: both: left- and right-click
15:30<frosch123>left-click: drag single vehicle
15:31<frosch123>ctrl-left-click: drag vehicle chain
15:31<frosch123>right-click: show vehicle info
15:31<frosch123>ctrl-right-click: show vehicle chain info
15:31<Supercheese>oh hot dang
15:31<Supercheese>I have never done ctrl+right click before
15:31<Supercheese>neat
15:31<frosch123>yeah, it's the only place with that key combination :p
15:32<Supercheese>Well, I've got my Something New Learned Today done early it seems
15:33<@peter1138>overloaded tooltips!
15:33<@peter1138>I didn't know about that either.
15:33<Supercheese>Heh
15:33<frosch123>we need html formatting in tool tips :)
15:33<frosch123><ul> and <b> and such
15:34<Supercheese>you have color codes already
15:34<Supercheese>{RED} THIS IS IMPORTANT
15:34<frosch123>but we have no <ul><li>
15:34<Supercheese>:P
15:42<@peter1138>Ok... 2x is fine, but with 4x, the settings circle icon is not visible, or flickers :S
15:44<frosch123>the expand/collapse circle in adv settings?
15:46<@peter1138>Ah, it's just an overflow :)
15:46<frosch123>where is the int8? :p
15:47<@peter1138>line isn't high enough, so it wraps, but it's unsigned, so... boom.
15:52<Supercheese>Huh, another typo...
15:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26956 trunk/src/cheat_gui.cpp (2014-10-04 19:52:23 UTC)
15:52<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: GUI-scale for cheat window.
15:57<Supercheese>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6127 easy fix
16:11<@peter1138>Supercheese, probably should the "shares"
16:11<@peter1138>Like shift-click is "shows"
16:12<Supercheese>Well, the three other strings immediately following all say, "Ctrl+Click will share the orders."
16:12<Supercheese>the TRAIN_DEPOT is the odd man out
16:12<@peter1138>ok
16:12<Supercheese>One of these strings is not like the other... ♪♫
16:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26957 trunk/src/station_gui.cpp (2014-10-04 20:18:25 UTC)
16:18<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Spread the station cargo icons out by GUI scale.
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16:34<andythenorth>peter1138: so is there a bit I can flip to turn on GUI scale?
16:34<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26958 /branches/1.4 (30 files in 12 dirs) (2014-10-04 20:34:41 UTC)
16:34<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Backport from trunk:
16:34<@DorpsGek>- Cleanup [Squirrel]: remove many unused bits and pieces
16:34<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26959 /trunk/src (settings_gui.cpp settings_gui.h) (2014-10-04 20:34:43 UTC)
16:34<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: GUI-scale for settings window.
16:35<@peter1138>yikes
16:35<andythenorth>timing
16:35<Supercheese>concurrent commits
16:35<@peter1138>Oh, 1.4 backport, that won't be in trunk :)
16:35<@peter1138>andythenorth, only if you compile it
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16:36<andythenorth>I can compile
16:37*andythenorth looks
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16:41<andythenorth>so I need to set ZOOM_LVL_GUI somewhere?
16:41<@peter1138>zoom_type.h
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16:43<andythenorth>got it
16:44<andythenorth>slow compie is slow :(
16:45<andythenorth>that is *fricking awesome*
16:45<Supercheese>If I had a nickel for every time andy complained about slow compile times... well, I wouldn't have too much, but maybe enough to buy a candy bar
16:45<Supercheese>:P
16:46<andythenorth>at the price of candy in the UK
16:46<andythenorth>you’d have half a mars bar
16:47*andythenorth tries 2X
16:47<andythenorth>NORMAL is a bit intense on a 13” screen
16:47<@Rubidium>are they that cheap in the UK?
16:47<@peter1138>haha
16:47<andythenorth>best thing in the game since the last best thing
16:48<andythenorth>the last best thing was window size pinning
16:48<@peter1138>Changing that define did mostly work anyway
16:48<@peter1138>Well, until you actually got to playing the game.
16:48<@peter1138>Need to sort out the close box :p
16:49<andythenorth>oh it’s beautiful
16:49<andythenorth>2x fits perfectly on my screen
16:50<andythenorth>it’s like 1994 again
16:50*andythenorth is stuck in the past :(
16:50<Supercheese>Party like it's 1995
16:50<andythenorth>oh my eyes
16:51<@peter1138>Of course, it someone™ provides 2x scaled sprites, that'll not be so blocky.
16:51<andythenorth>peter1138: you should see this on a retina-ish screen
16:51<@peter1138>*if
16:51<andythenorth>the blocky is nice
16:51<andythenorth>it’s so crisp and bright
16:51*andythenorth can’t contain self
16:51<andythenorth>excuse me for a minute
16:51<@peter1138>I only have ~85 dpi 22" screens.
16:53<andythenorth>yeah everything should be redrawn to 2s
16:53<andythenorth>2x
16:53<andythenorth>let’s just overlook that
16:53<@peter1138>biggui has some stuff already
16:54<@peter1138>i guess someone™ will merge that into opengfx or something
16:54<andythenorth>I mean everything :P
16:54<andythenorth>FIRS and all
16:54<@peter1138>:S
16:57<Supercheese>voxels
16:58<@peter1138>cubicles
16:58<Supercheese>solve all scaling problems :P
16:58<frosch123>damn, peter was faster
16:58<Supercheese>(and introduce many other problems)
16:58<@Rubidium>vauxhauls?
16:58<Supercheese>foxholes
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17:03<Supercheese>Hmmm, genders not available in conditional order strings
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17:07<Supercheese>ah, isn't a problem
17:08<Pikka>yim bom bala boo
17:08<frosch123>Pikka: we need svg graphics for all gui icons!
17:09<Pikka>we do?
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17:09<Supercheese>or other vector format
17:09<frosch123>maybe? :)
17:10<frosch123>hmm, wait... i think that android guy even started drawing some
17:11<frosch123>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/jjgui/repository/show/gfx <- indeed
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17:29<@peter1138>Hmm, so just the X close button...
17:29<@peter1138>And a couple of little bits.
17:30<@peter1138>Hmm, I found the news icon, but it flashes up very briefly...
17:30<Supercheese>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/jjgui/repository/show/gfx/svg
17:30<Supercheese>Impressive
17:30<Supercheese>(as frosch mentioned)
17:30<@peter1138>nice
17:31<Supercheese>there's your vector format
17:31<frosch123>peter1138: it's probably a silly icon :p
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17:36<@peter1138>There's a bug there. It's sending SBI_DELETED all the time
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17:37<@peter1138>SBI_NEWS_DELETED i mean
17:37<frosch123>you still mean the flashing icon?
17:37<@peter1138>yes
17:37<frosch123>what else should it do but flash?
17:38<frosch123>stay forever?
17:38<@peter1138>It's meant to stay there for a second, maybe 2.
17:38<frosch123>oh
17:38<@peter1138>It's literally flashing for a frame.
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17:40<frosch123>it worked around 1.2 :p
17:41<frosch123>i think we replaced some generic circle with that special sprite back then
17:41<@peter1138>yeah
17:41*Supercheese recalls the circle
17:42<@peter1138>yeah...
17:42<@peter1138>it hmm
17:43<andythenorth>is pikka chops
17:43<andythenorth>what ho
17:43<Pikka>frequently
17:43<andythenorth>NARS 3 yet?
17:44<Pikka>2.5
17:44<Pikka>wogans progress
17:44<andythenorth>what are you waiting for?
17:44<andythenorth>I have drawn a whole wagon today
17:44<Pikka>I'm not drawing any wagons
17:44<andythenorth>and spent 8 hours making my compile 5 seconds faster
17:44<Pikka>only coding
17:44<Pikka>huzzah
17:44<andythenorth>coding schmoding
17:45<Pikka>you only have to compile it six thousand times and it will totally have been worth it
17:45<Pikka>well I can't release the set without schmoding
17:46<Pikka>I know there's a school of thought which says the way to make progress is to post sprites in the forum, but...
17:47<frosch123>do they still exist?
17:47<andythenorth>can’t you schmode a schmode generator?
17:47<andythenorth>frosch123: sprites exist
17:47<Pikka>people who just post sprites in the forums, frosch123?
17:47<frosch123>i do not follow forums much :p
17:47<andythenorth>any reason? o_O
17:48<Pikka>too full of bullies, andythenorth
17:48<Supercheese>and drama
17:48<frosch123>i thought everyone ieither posts them to devzone hg, or keeps them private
17:48<frosch123>andythenorth: it's just not interesting
17:49<Wolf01>'night
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17:52<andythenorth>frosch123: could I make it interesting somehow? o_O
17:52<andythenorth>or is it the wrong question?
17:52<frosch123>everything of relevance is said or linked here
17:53<andythenorth>order is very important in that sentence
17:53<andythenorth>try rearranging it, it’s definitely not true
17:53<andythenorth>(it becomes definitely not true...)
17:53<frosch123>you mean "linked from" ?
17:54<andythenorth>here everything said is of relevance or linked
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17:54<frosch123>anyway, if there is something interesting on the forums, it's usually carried here
17:55<andythenorth>peter1138: that newspaper at the end is giant!
17:55<frosch123>graphics dev forum was never particulary interesting though
17:55<andythenorth>shocking assertion
17:55<andythenorth>where would andythenorth be without it?
17:56<frosch123>i look into your topics every month, i find nothing that you didn't say here as well :)
17:57<andythenorth>well I can’t fill up the forums with 5-line teddy-bear coding thoughts
17:57<andythenorth>also, in the forums, I might get answers
17:57<andythenorth>which is not the point
17:57<frosch123>wasn't there a forum game subforum?
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18:02<@peter1138>andythenorth, isn't it just
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18:08<andythenorth>frosch123: there are dark bits of the forum I never see
18:08<andythenorth>I believe there’s all kinds of things
18:08<andythenorth>I found a thing called ‘locomotion’ in there the other day
18:09<andythenorth>looked a bit odd
18:09<andythenorth>also I think there’s a racism and sexism sub-forum
18:09-!-oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:09<andythenorth>or is that #tycoon?
18:10<SpComb>the dark side of the forums
18:12<andythenorth>huzzah
18:12<andythenorth>giant cursor is giant
18:12<Pikka>at least off-topic, forum games and locomotion keeps the kids out of the proper forums :) most of the time...
18:12<Pikka>how giant?
18:13<andythenorth>as big as my little finger
18:13<andythenorth>well, the tip of it
18:14<frosch123>night
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18:14<andythenorth>need giant industry chain view
18:14<andythenorth>actually maybe not
18:14<andythenorth>giant small map is giant too \o/
18:17*andythenorth ponders the UI chrome icons
18:17<andythenorth>maybe they just need drawing better
18:21*andythenorth bulldozes some rivers
18:21<andythenorth>in my way
18:21<andythenorth>2x zoom dynamite!
18:21<andythenorth>with animation!
18:22<andythenorth>feature request: demolishing a station shows explosion on all tiles
18:22<andythenorth>a bit like ‘realistic’ vehicle smoke :P
18:22<andythenorth>increase the explosion effect sprite limit
18:23<andythenorth>also bed time
18:23<andythenorth>:P
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18:43<matma6>hello
18:44<matma6>i'm curious how openttd detects where mouse points
18:45<matma6>i tried to read source code, but I didn't get anything
19:02<FLHerne>matma6: Looks like it's in window.cpp
19:02<matma6>does version matter?
19:04<FLHerne>Hmm, that only uses the values. Probably comes out of SDL somewhere
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19:08<matma6>But, do you know the concept standing behind this method
19:09<matma6>also, I can find OnHover in window.cpp - is it part of SDL?
19:09<matma6>*can't
19:10<matma6>Please look at line 779
19:11<FLHerne>Looks like the mouse position is found separately by the platform-specific VideoDriver code
19:11<matma6> w->OnHover(pt, wid->index);
19:13<FLHerne>e.g win32_v.cpp has 'case WM_MOUSEMOVE:' and then sets the cursor values
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19:14<+glx>then main window pass it to the top children
19:15<FLHerne>matma6: It's a function of struct Window, not sure what that does
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19:15<matma6>i think video level is to low
19:15<matma6>this counts some deltas and then calls HandleMouseEvent()
19:16<+glx>HandleMouseEvent() redirects the event where it should
19:16<matma6>ok
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19:16<matma6>Where is it
19:17<matma6>ok
19:17<matma6>i got it
19:17<+glx>and events are propagated through windows
19:18<+glx>until one element handles it
19:19<matma6>I think that sprite picker does it, am I right?
19:21<matma6>oh, am i right?
19:21<matma6>i click
19:21<matma6>some kind of listener is set
19:21<matma6>whole screen is dirty and needs redraw
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19:22<matma6>listener waits, when coords are good
19:22<matma6>and then remembers actually drawn sprite -> actually pointed
19:23<+glx>not really a listener, but a special status is defined and if left click happens it stores the clicked pixel
19:24<+glx>sprite picker stuff is always handled before GUI
19:25<matma6>so when pixel is drawn, then sprite is captured?
19:28<+glx>yes
19:28<matma6>ok
19:29<matma6>so mouse position is done
19:29<+glx>every sprite drawn on the stored pixel are added to the list
19:29<matma6>*so mouse position is computed by the way while drawing
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19:31<matma6>right?
19:32<+glx>mouse position is determined by video driver
19:37<matma6>so thx for help
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23:18<liq3>Polyline tool should be in trunk. It's so great. <3
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 05 00:00:39 2014