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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-07

---Logopened Tue Oct 07 00:00:42 2014
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00:46<Supercheese>Oh great, now I have to add gender "cases" to get the translation just right
00:47<Supercheese>or other contrivance
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01:00<Pikkaphone>get to work
01:02<Supercheese> :<
01:06<@Rubidium>yes daddy ;)
01:08<Pikkaphone>stop that, too.
01:31<Supercheese>Huh, road vehicle driving side option is in both Advanced Settings and Game Options
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01:35<Supercheese>same with No. of Industries... which is oddly called Industry Density in the Advanced Options, despite being the exact same setting
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02:15<Supercheese>it seems like several mapgen settings are duplicated in the advanced settings
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02:15<andythenorth>such pie
02:15<Supercheese>and they have different titles, even
02:18<andythenorth>Pikkaphone stop fighting players you player-fighter you
02:18<Pikkaphone>I shall.
02:18<Pikkaphone>hang on, just getting off a boat.
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02:21<Pikkaphone>sup Andy
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02:28<Pikkaphone>andythenorth: doesn't matter how idiot proof you make your bad feetures, the universe will throw up new and improved idiots.
02:29<Pikkaphone>better just smile and let them be. :)
02:29<Pikkaphone>better than 'defeating' them by making your grf unplayable. Not naming any names of course.
02:30<andythenorth>ho ho
02:30<andythenorth>Pikkaphone: so I got up, is it your bedtime? o_O
02:31<Pikkaphone>is 4.30pm, so probably.
02:31<Pikkaphone>I'm on a bus back into uni atm.
02:31<andythenorth>you will get an edukashion
02:32<Pikkaphone>of a sort
02:32<Pikkaphone>the bus driver just got a call on the radio
02:33<Pikkaphone>that ringtone still scares me
02:34<Pikkaphone>nearly at uni, will probably get disconnected when my phone connects to the wifi
02:34*andythenorth will put away the shopping
02:34<andythenorth>such glamour
02:35<andythenorth>mm potatoes
02:35<andythenorth>for pie
02:35<Pikkaphone>mmm pie
02:36<Pikkaphone>the bus radio ringing is scary because it usually means extra work, or you're in trouble for something. :)
02:36<andythenorth>BAD PIE FEATURES
02:36<Pikkaphone>bus control to major Tom...
02:36<andythenorth>engines on
02:36<Pikkaphone>you're pie features
02:37<andythenorth>somebody made BAD PIE
02:37<andythenorth>Sweeney Todd maybe
02:37<andythenorth>with human bits
02:38<Pikkaphone>and Johnny Depp
02:38<Pikkaphone>Oh a helizellepin
02:38<andythenorth>four and twenty blackbirds
02:38<Pikkaphone>how rare
02:39<andythenorth>I think that means Mornington Crescent, no?
02:39<andythenorth>you win
02:40<Pikkaphone>corner of musk Ave and blamey St, sctually
02:40<Pikkaphone>actually too
02:41<Pikkaphone>walking and ircing, how futuristic telecommunications
02:41<andythenorth>walking and ircing into lamp post?
02:41<Pikkaphone>only occasionally
02:42<Supercheese>What the devil is this "Cargo Flow Legend" thingy?
02:42<Supercheese>I have literally never seen it before
02:42<andythenorth>you haven’t?
02:42<andythenorth>what is it?
02:42<andythenorth>where is it?
02:42<andythenorth>what does it do?
02:42<Supercheese>Must be a CargoDist thing
02:43<Supercheese>This type of window thing:
02:43<andythenorth>never seen it
02:43<Supercheese>It is available even when CargoDist is off
02:45<Supercheese>also this
02:45<Supercheese>linkgraph doodad
02:45<Pikkaphone>no, it's a cargodist thing
02:45<Pikkaphone>I had to change my password for 'security'
02:46<Pikkaphone>that's why the wifi hasn't connected
02:46<Supercheese>ugh my university demands stupidly-long passwords
02:46<Supercheese>It's maddening, I want to use the same stupid password everywhere so I don't forget it
02:46<Supercheese>but no
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02:48<Pikkaphone2>there we go
02:51<Pikkaphone2>is mb calling me out for being insufficiently authoritarian?
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02:54<Supercheese>quite possibly
02:58<andythenorth>just ask him
02:58<andythenorth>I always take Michael at face value
02:58<andythenorth>I think he’s quite funny
03:01<andythenorth>Pikkaphone2: steel torpedo cars for NARS 2.x?
03:05<Supercheese>damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead
03:15<liq3>Supercheese: Keepass, store your passwords. :p
03:15<Supercheese> :effort:
03:15<liq3>less effort than remembering multiple long complicated passwords.
03:15<liq3>also more secure, because you can use unique, long complicated passwords everywhere.
03:15<Supercheese>If that is software that I need to install, it's a no-go
03:15<Supercheese>because I need to use university computers often
03:15<liq3>does copying it into your HDD count as installing?
03:16<Supercheese>and naturally they will not let you
03:16<liq3>you can store in on a USB stick.
03:16<Supercheese>hmm then they'd need to let me run it, which I have not tried
03:16<Supercheese>may complain of a security issue
03:16<liq3>lol it's not insecure.
03:17<Supercheese>well, their sysadmin decides that, not I
03:17<andythenorth>USB being one of the better attack vectors
03:17<andythenorth>just use your phone
03:17<andythenorth>4 word passwords
03:18<liq3>Keepass let's you secure the password database with a master password and/or any file. Also Windows User Account, but you don't want that.
03:18<Supercheese>they also want you to change your password every ~400 days or so
03:18<liq3>If you setup the security settings right, no way to crack it without the master password. :P
03:19<liq3>It has a "number of key transformation" settings. Mine is set so it takes 1 second on my PC. gl cracking it with 1 second per password attempt.
03:19<@planetmaker>liq3, while I use that for all the nasty websites and the lesser-used e-mail accounts, some things need passwords which one just remembers easier than using keepass :)
03:19<@planetmaker>for instance keepass itself ;)
03:19<liq3>planetmaker: yeh. ;]
03:20<liq3>You still gotta remember a few passwords yourself.
03:20<liq3>Saves so much effort having unique passwords for every single forum account and other BS>
03:20<@planetmaker>it does. More so that I can share the keepass file via my owncloud between my machines is helpful, too
03:21<liq3>and the database is totally secure too.
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03:21<Supercheese>Well, sounds promising, iff the uni computers let me run it
03:22<@planetmaker>there's a portable edition
03:22<liq3>i've got like 50 unique passwords. so rediculous.
03:22<@planetmaker>only? :P
03:22<liq3>I actually find it amusing, but I often find websites don't let me have super long and complicated PWs.
03:23<@planetmaker>or not this kind of letter or the other
03:23<Supercheese>I'll try it, but I suspect that running foreign .exes off of USB drives is frowned upon, if not disallowed entirely
03:24<andythenorth>one wonders why :P
03:24<liq3>you can always redownload the .exe at the uni if they are really that worried. ;]
03:24<liq3>wonder what excuses they'd come up with then.
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03:25<Supercheese>Heaven knows, they're rather uptight about things
03:25<Supercheese>I'm very glad I have my own internet off campus, they filter traffic like crazy on the university wifi
03:25<liq3>lemme guess, it's run by old tech illiterate people?
03:25<Supercheese>heavens no, their system is excellent and very reliable, just restrictive
03:26<Supercheese>run by security obsessed folks methinks
03:26<liq3>oh, I mean't the tech illiterate people are setting the rules, telling the sysadmins what to do.
03:26<Supercheese>ah quite possibly
03:26<liq3>I really doubt any sysadmin worth their salt would be that worried about security.
03:26<Supercheese>I'll be graduating soon enough and be done with the lot
03:26<liq3>that they'd disallow keepass.
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03:31<Supercheese>Awesome, {CARGO_LIST.dat} works
03:31<Supercheese>was worried it might not work with cases
03:32<Supercheese>oh wait
03:33<Supercheese>only sometimes dang
03:35<Supercheese>very odd
03:35<__ln__>Supercheese: did you come up with a proper isocode to use for latin?
03:35<Supercheese>Thus far, merely "la"
03:36<Supercheese>Reddit's Latin translation seems to use la_LA
03:36<__ln__>that's so wrong
03:36<__ln__>LA is Laos, some country in asia.
03:36<Supercheese>and minecraft la_VA, IIRC
03:37<__ln__>i think _VA is the most sensible choice if the country part is required
03:37<Supercheese> if you can view that
03:38<Supercheese>en_US -> la_VA
03:40<Supercheese>cases/genders throw spanners everywhere
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03:42<__ln__>requires signing in to view it, sad
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03:45<Supercheese>whew, last strings to translate are the CargoDist options
03:45<Supercheese>also inconveniently the longest
03:47*Supercheese wonders if the STR_CARGO_SINGULAR strings are actually used anywhere
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04:20*Supercheese thinks cargo quantities should be capitalized
04:21<Supercheese>Capacity: 20 passengers vs.
04:21<Supercheese>Capacity: 20 Passengers
04:22<__ln__>it's not german
04:22<Supercheese>Refittability lists are capitalized
04:23<Supercheese>Refittable to: Passengers, Mail, Goods
04:23*Supercheese is a stickler for consistency
04:23<Supercheese>Cargo Ratings are capitalized
04:24<Supercheese>essentially every other word in the vehicle info section is capitalized
04:25*Supercheese could just edit the US English translation
04:29*Supercheese will sleep on it
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06:11<argoneus>good morning, train friends
06:12<Pikka>good evening, trucking enemies
06:13<V453000>shipmaster cometh
06:13<Pikka>ship off
06:16<V453000>go sail your shits
06:16<Pikka>no, you're doing it wrong.
06:18<Pikka>inconcievable, even
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06:37<argoneus>Pikka: bad evening*
06:37<argoneus>you dun' fukt up
06:37<Pikka>how rude
06:38<argoneus>ebola in spain
06:38<argoneus>brace yourselves
06:39<V453000>yeti in natural habitat of utter mess
06:39<V453000>wip :D
06:39<Pikka>its head is smaller than I was expecting
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06:50<argoneus>V453000: are the sprites this detailed?
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07:07<V453000>myeah many things arent quite final yet :)
07:07<V453000>sprites? this has nothing to do with sprites
07:08<V453000>it is just a closeup on the model, is quite clear that it isnt adapted for being rendered from this close up :D
07:09<V453000>Pikka: yeah much bigger head fits much better :)
07:10<V453000>&wider legs :)
07:11<@planetmaker>yup, yetis are true thick-heads. The head is much too small, twice the diameter, I'll say
07:11<@planetmaker>but looks like a nice view on those furry creatures
07:14<V453000>:) well it is a start
07:14<V453000>but yeah
07:19<V453000>fatter, bigger head :)
07:20<V453000>ready to dig some ore
07:21<V453000>now to map,rig and animate it :d
07:22<@planetmaker>yeah, wonderful :)
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07:42<_maddy>V453000: is there any info on YETI anywhere? I would like to read about the game mechanics, like how industry production rates etc. work
07:44<_maddy>yeah I found that site, but I can't seem to find that kind of info there
07:45<_maddy>ok, your blog posts on openttdcoop are more detailed, I see the info there
07:45<V453000>well the precise details arent there, those are very much in the development
07:45<V453000>especially next version is going to change production mechanism
07:46<V453000>a lot :D
07:46<V453000>more dependencies, bonuses, ...
07:46<_maddy>yeah, but how? :)
07:48<_maddy>is there currently any bonus for delivering different types of cargo to industry, vs delivering just 1 type of cargo but more of it?
07:48<V453000>no, that is the problem :)
07:48<V453000>there will be
07:54<V453000>_maddy: the future mechanism should basically do this
08:01<_maddy>so, there will be a 'realism' setting where YETI dudes are renamed to workers? :)
08:06<_maddy>just wondering, because that's what they are called in your scheme
08:07<V453000>will really a change of string cause realism?
08:07<V453000>regardless, it is just inconsistency
08:07<V453000>nothing changes
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08:10<_maddy>I don't know. I remember you originally had idea of having two separate versions of YETI, one more realistic? now the current state is kind of a mix of both, like it's mostly realistic
08:11<V453000> I doubt I ever said I want something to be realistic :D
08:12<V453000>perhaps some ancient idea might have been to have sane/full out version, but that is definitely not happening now :)
08:14<_maddy>sure, in any case, not a big deal
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12:24<Guest788>Hi! Can anyone help me with configuring an OpenTTD Citybuilder server?=
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12:25<jokke_>Anyone knows how to config openTTD Citybuilder?
12:26<frosch123>download a game script
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12:51<jokke_>you know how to start a game script on an dedicated server?
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12:52<@planetmaker>either in the cfg there's a [game_scripts] section. Or upload a savegame which uses it and make sure it's available on the server, too
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13:00<jokke_>thank you planetmaker, i will try :)
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13:23<@planetmaker>luaduck, what's the output of uname -a on your server?
13:23<luaduck>Linux 3.16.3-200.fc20.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Sep 17 22:34:21 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
13:24<luaduck>aaaaand I've just exposed I'm running an old kernel
13:24<@planetmaker>^ Rubidium
13:24<luaduck>oh wait nvm ksplice
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13:24<@planetmaker>that's the current one
13:26<luaduck>like I said earlier, we're going to be moving to centos either tomorrow or thursday
13:26<luaduck>so we'll be on a more stable kernel
13:26<luaduck>3.10.0-123 from what I can see
13:26<@Alberth>way more stable everything :p
13:26<@planetmaker>(and way older) ;)
13:27<luaduck>contrary to popular belief, having to update every 10 seconds because icinga's going batshit saying you've got security updates is quite grating
13:27<@planetmaker>what's linux' current release cycle? 2 months or 3?
13:27<@Alberth>yeah, you don't want to try installing random open source development thingies :)
13:27<luaduck>especially when said updates break shit
13:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26975 trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp (2014-10-07 17:32:29 UTC)
13:32<@DorpsGek>-Fix: reading too many bits when determining the client index for desync debug message
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13:36<fjb>Trains in Trainfewer are no fun. :(
13:38*Supercheese read that as Trainwerfer
13:38<Supercheese>pew pew, firin' trains
13:40<@planetmaker>lol, Supercheese :)
13:41*planetmaker imagines the XXL version of tossing the caber
13:41<@planetmaker>probably yetis might come into the picture here
13:41<fjb>They look great. Building the tracks is fun. But trains with the same orders always want to use the same platform in a station and ignore the other platforms. So there are constant dead locks.
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26976 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2014-10-07 17:45:44 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 6 changes by telk5093
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13:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26977 /branches/1.4/src/lang (25 files in 2 dirs) (2014-10-07 17:47:35 UTC)
13:47<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Backport: strings from trunk
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14:22<Wolf01>hi hi
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14:56<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: there are ways to avoid deadlocks, but yes, some alternate path handling would be useful.
14:57<Phreeze>i always manage to get a deadlock...too many trains on junctions etc :-/
14:57<Phreeze>trainlength is a problem, i could go for more shorter trains, but i like those long ones :)
14:57<@Rubidium>so you want KUDr's work in tf?
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: pathfinding is not really done per train, but instead per "line"
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: maybe i haven't had enough trains yet :p
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>it's kinda difficult to do cargo trains
15:03<argoneus>have you guys played alien isolation yet?
15:04<argoneus>or does it not have enough trains
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>never heard of that
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15:06<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: How do you avoid it on a single track line with terminal stations without building a bypass in the middle between the stations?
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: how do you mean? on a single track you obviously can't run more than one train
15:08<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Multiple platforms (and tracks) in the stations ofcourse.
15:09<@Rubidium>use a loop ;)
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: you mean like two trains on full load, and one is travelling while the other is loading?
15:09<fjb>Loop scarf when waiting for the never arraving train in the cold?
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: you could just try to make two separate lines
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>but it may come out worse...
15:11<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: No, both loading only what is there. Two terminal stations at the ends of the line, somestations with multiple tracks in between.
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: but i just generally plan my routes so that one platform at the end station is used
15:12<@planetmaker>Jinassi, what OS do you use for playing openttd?
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>so even when the whole track is doubled, they will merge directly before the station
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: obviously with two trains, a double track section in the middle is the most effective wrt train frequency
15:13<Jinassi>winz and android using remote control
15:18<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: I may try. I failed to build a second track where I would have needed because the landscape restricts me. But the routing still sucks.
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>well, then just build at 1/4 and 3/4 and make 3 trains :)
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15:19<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't tried on difficult landscape yet, because lack of planning tool makes it annoying
15:21<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: I thought many hills would be fun in my first game, and the are if you are carefull. But who is that in the first game.
15:23<Supercheese>Command 'STATION' can't have a case (FATAL)
15:23<Supercheese>Station names desperately need cases...
15:24<@Rubidium>how would that work for the town you just called "Supercheese Metropolis"?
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15:25<Supercheese>Yeah, there's too much to finesse
15:25<Supercheese>probably just settle for bad grammar when stations are involved
15:27<Supercheese>ah well
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15:59<Eddi|zuHause>a few languages already had this problem, where they have to flex the town or station name according to case... but it's just not possible
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>you could try to rearrange the sentence to use a different case that matches better
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>but that's probably not always possible
16:11<@peter1138>hurr rich hall
16:12<@peter1138>just banged my knee with his kit
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16:26<Eddi|zuHause>no idea who or what that is
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16:31<@planetmaker>hm, Jinassi , you play using *Android* on your servers?
16:32<@planetmaker>Jinassi, does there exist an OpenTTD 1.4.3 for Android which you use(d)?
16:33<Jinassi>no, using android to remote control my pc, from wifi when im at home and vpn when at work
16:33<@planetmaker>ah, kk. :) I'm relieved :)
16:33*andythenorth shaves a few more yaks
16:33<@planetmaker>does that stink, andythenorth ?
16:33<andythenorth>not today, but sometimes
16:34<andythenorth>sometimes the yak is uncooperative
16:34<Supercheese>Wait, but Industry names can have cases...?
16:35<Supercheese>I guess they are more rigidly structured
16:35<@planetmaker>oh. I guess I learned a new idom
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>i've never heard that before either...
16:43<@planetmaker>Supercheese, 'industry names' or 'industry type names'? The latter are not names but rather something more generic than a particular station or a particular realisation of an industry
16:44<Supercheese>I suppose I should spot check before wasting effort if it doesn't work, let me try
16:44<Jinassi>Anyone want some spam?
16:45*Rubidium might fancy a spam burger tomorrow
16:45<Supercheese>spam spam, wonderful spam
16:51<Supercheese>Yes it does work
16:51<Supercheese>Specific Industry names ("Shortston Oil Wells") can have cases
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>spam, eggs, sausage and spam
16:51<Supercheese>the town portion cannot, but the industry portion can
16:52<Jinassi>What tea goes best with that?
16:53<Phreeze>Icetea ^^
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16:55<@planetmaker>hm, spam and eggs. Yeah
16:58<MTsPony>hello guys. Anyone know how i can access my own servers by WAN ip? Sometimes it shows up in the Server list, sometimes not
16:58<MTsPony>not sure how to get it back, need to do some testing externally
16:59<@planetmaker>you access it via IP the same way you access it by its DNS name
16:59<@planetmaker>but probably I don't quite get what you're asking
17:00<MTsPony>Quite simple. You have the Server list in openttd, once in a while i see my own server there with its external WAN ip, but not always. Something is triggering it to show and to not show.
17:01<@planetmaker>advertisement to the masterserver makes it show up there. That's all what is to it
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17:02<MTsPony>Well it is advertising, and its not there.
17:03<@planetmaker>ok, what server list do you talk about?
17:03<MTsPony>the in-game one.
17:03<MTsPony>the blue window? Toggle for Show advertising servers only, etc? :)
17:04<@planetmaker>not sure. Might be that not all servers are always sent. Might be network protocol limitation.
17:05<MTsPony>Does it show up at yours atm? If you are willing to check?
17:07<@planetmaker>it does, all 6
17:08<MTsPony>Exactly, so why doesnt it show me it? And why cant i even manually add it with my dns or external ip either? It doesnt even show in the list of added servers, i mean i can add any random ip i want and it shows up, but i cannot add my own external IP
17:08<MTsPony>something's weird there.
17:09<@planetmaker>well, for a change the #openttdcoop PublicServer doesn't show for me ;)
17:09<@planetmaker>And which servers are sent, if not all are sent, might be more or less random
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>maybe the UDP package got lost
17:09<@planetmaker>yeah, as it appeared now :)
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>MTsPony: if you can't access the server by external ip, maybe your router isn't set up to loop internal traffic back to the external ip?
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>MTsPony: assuming your client and server are both on the internal network
17:11<MTsPony>I doubt it, as it randomly did occur that it did show up once in a while in the list, and I cannot recall changing my router's settings
17:11<MTsPony>Yeah they are.
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>MTsPony: this is independent from it showing up in the list
17:12<MTsPony>Just to be clear, nobody else has issues from the WAN side for my server to show up or to connect right?
17:12<MTsPony>? = .
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>i have not tried
17:13<MTsPony>sorry questionmark is just a period.
17:13<MTsPony>You're saying the downloading of the list and the servers that show up is independant of my router's config?
17:14<MTsPony>If i look in my server's console i see constant [udp] queried from "random external ip" so i dont think anything is wrong there
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>there are 3 steps involved here.
17:15<Wolf01>'night all
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>step 1 is the server advertising, and the masterserver getting replies
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17:15<MTsPony>That works.
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>step 2 is you downloading the list
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>step 3 is you connecting to the server
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17:15<MTsPony>it goes wrong at step 2 then apparently.
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>step 1 seems to be working, step 2 has a random element to it, and step 3 is probably your router configuration's fault
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>step 3 should be working even if step 2 doesn't
17:16<MTsPony>Step 3 == manually trying to add WAN ip fails?
17:17<MTsPony>isnt that odd? as i can add any other random ip and it starts to show up?
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>if you use the LAN ip in step 3, it should work
17:17<MTsPony>yeah lan ip works fine from internally.
17:18<MTsPony>perhaps i should cut off the communication between my two PC's and see what happens lol
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>your router takes packages from inside the LAN, and forwards them to IPs outside the LAN, and vice versa. most routers by default don't get packages from inside the LAN and push them back into the LAN
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>likewise, it doesn't accept packages from outside the LAN that are meant for IPs also outside the LAN
17:20<Jinassi>quick fix: ask a neighbour if you can connect to his/her wifi for 5 min to test
17:21<MTsPony>Actually I have connection to another seperate internet, but i can only connect through my ipad :/
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17:24<MTsPony>it starts to show up
17:24<MTsPony>I disabled IPV6 firewall (Not sure why, but i dont use ipv6 so i just did anyway) and allowed respond to ping from wan side.
17:24<MTsPony>probably one of them was causing this
17:25<MTsPony>i cant see why Respond ping request from wan would affect this though
17:25<MTsPony>or how rather
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>MTsPony: the masterserver sends out UDP packages for the server list, because TCP would create too much load on the server. but UDP packages may get lost, especially if wifi is involved
17:26<MTsPony>there is no wifi involved, and i doubt my connection is by any means unstable
17:26<Jinassi>we nagged his net provider to fixit
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>MTsPony: anyway, it still shouldn't let you connect through the server list
17:27<MTsPony>it works now
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 08 00:00:43 2014