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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-11

---Logopened Sat Oct 11 00:00:48 2014
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02:12<andythenorth>Pikka moin
02:12<andythenorth>also others
02:12<Pikka>moin bob
02:29<andythenorth>turned out to be 3 in Brisbane
02:29<Pikka>how rare
02:29<andythenorth>it’s bizarre that I know so many unrelated people in a place 14,000 miles aways
02:29<andythenorth>which has the same first 4 letters as the place I live in
02:29<Pikka>well, there are a couple of million people in the greater brisbane area... it's not that bizarre. :P
02:30<andythenorth>it’s also bizarre that monkeys learned to talk
02:30<andythenorth>but anyway
02:31<andythenorth>also what hap?
02:32<Pikka>as predicted
02:32<Pikka>yeti posing
02:32<andythenorth>yetis in domes?
02:33<Pikka>I don't think they'd fit
02:33<@peter1138>what's that coming over the the hill
02:34<andythenorth>is it a yeti?
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02:35<Pikka>no, it's a domes
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03:25<George>Frocsh wrote: switch (FEAT_SHIPS, SELF, provence_edibles_tanker_create_visual_effect, [STORE_TEMP(create_effect(EFFECT_SPRITE_DIESEL, 8, 0, 18), 0x100)]) {return 1;}
03:25<George>where can I read about parameters for create_effect?
03:26<George>8 is offset? means half tile to the end?
03:26<George>and what are 0 and 18?
03:26<George>what is the return 1 means?
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03:38<andythenorth>George: I can’t remember (am looking now), but do you know how to read nml source?
03:38<andythenorth>create_effect has some documentation there
03:38<andythenorth>you could also check for the openttd commit
03:39<andythenorth>the return appears to be the number of effects to create
03:39<George>Could you please just copy&paste the part that describes the meaning of the parameters?
03:40<andythenorth>1 min
03:40<@peter1138>A wild coffee appears.
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03:41<George>you mean return allows, for example, provide smoke from 2 pipes?
03:41<@peter1138>>attack coffee
03:41<@peter1138>You drink the coffee, depleting it somewhat.
03:41<andythenorth>don’t tease me with coffee
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03:42<andythenorth>George: yes. iirc, return specifies how many registers have effect positions stored
03:42<andythenorth>so for two effects, store in two registers, then return 2
03:43*andythenorth checks a ship with two effects
03:43<George>and what should happen, if CB10 disables effect, and CB160 enables?
03:44<andythenorth>this one has two
03:44<andythenorth>I don’t know what happens between the CBs
03:45<andythenorth>I believe they’re handled separately, for legacy support, but not sure
03:45<andythenorth>ottd src would know
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04:42<@peter1138>ALL ABOARD
04:42<Pikka>choo choo
04:43<@peter1138>I hope that train never goes through a tunnel.
04:44<Pikka>it's okay
04:44<Pikka>he's got a hard hat on
04:48<__ln__>why wasn't i informed of this:
04:49<George>nmlc ERROR: "xussr.nml", line 32135: Unknown property name: effect_spawn_model
04:54<liq3>oh wow that clock. pretty crazy.
05:02<@planetmaker>George, the property name is 'effect_spawn_model_and_powered'
05:03<George>Someone should really update the docs :(
05:03<frosch123>hey, i managed to document create_effect :)
05:06<@peter1138>__ln__, it's unrealistic!
05:10<@planetmaker>Pikka, pretty jolly party on that train it seems!
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05:14<George>frosch123: could you add the description for CB too?
05:14<frosch123>i am working on it
05:16<Pikka>that industry animation, and what it does to my fast-forward speed :D
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05:27<@peter1138>Silly reddit servers, calling 512x512 small.
05:29<Pikka>I want to run a 4096* map and only build on about 5% of it. and then complain that my game runs slowly and I can't take giant screenshots of the whole map.
05:30<frosch123>5% is a lot
05:31<frosch123>that's still an 1kx800 area or something
05:31<Pikka>1% then :P
05:32<Pikka>5% of a 2048 * 1024.
05:32<Pikka>or so
05:32<Pikka>either way, there's a lot of pointless map calculating going on, growing towns and doing industry production in parts of the map they've probably never even seen.
05:33<Pikka>4096* with high towns and high industries. because everyone knows "max everything" is the only correct way to set up games.
05:34*Pikka blames peter1138
05:34<Pikka>who says 512* is small?
05:35<@peter1138>reddit #4 Small Map (YETI)
05:35<@peter1138>is 512x512
05:36<argoneus>good morning, train friends
05:37<NGC3982>I remember when i got 512MB RAM for the first time.
05:42<@peter1138>That's nice.
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05:44<V453000>some news, Pikka? :D
05:44<frosch123>see forums?
05:44<Pikka>not a new
05:44<argoneus>I've got a question
05:45<V453000>FUCK :D
05:45<argoneus>in the source code, you use uint16, uint32, uint8 etc
05:45<argoneus>but you don't include stdint or inttypes anywhere
05:45<argoneus>how come it compiles?
05:45<V453000>Pikka: perfect XD I would just turn the turbosmooth on, at least on the hat
05:45<argoneus>last I checked uint16 was not there by default?
05:46<@planetmaker>stdafx.h... slow ;)
05:46<frosch123>argoneus: check stdafx.h, it defines all the mess you need to compile on 40 years of weird operating systems
05:46<@peter1138>also the standard versions are suffixed with _t
05:46<Pikka>yeah, the hat went a bit funny :)
05:46<argoneus>for example in config.h, you don't include them anywhere
05:46<argoneus>I don't see anything included in any files that use it
05:46<frosch123>we have a config.h?
05:47<frosch123>headerfiles are not necessarily self-contained
05:47<@peter1138>it's included by the stuff that includes config.h
05:47<frosch123>stdafx.h is included by every .cpp files at the beginning by convention
05:48<argoneus>I thought headers were supposed to include
05:51<V453000>soooooooooooooo Pikka how soon can we expect new pineapple trains? XD
05:51<Pikka>I have another locomotive to finish, then soon (tm)
05:51<Pikka>I want to do it at the same time as new NARS, but I'm still waiting to hear from Dan.
05:52<V453000>why that? :D they have something in common?
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05:53<Pikka>I'm adding the dome cars and another american-ish loco, so it's kind of linked...
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05:53<V453000>hm :)
05:57<liq3>This reddit hard server. Takes so long to get money.
05:57<Pikka>I've fixed up the smoothing groups on the helmet, still don't know if they'll match yours though :)
05:57<Pikka>right now -> dinner, bbl
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05:58<@planetmaker>liq3, one could even assume that it's intentional ;)
05:58<liq3>What a crazy idea.
05:59<V453000>it doesnt need to be 1:1 Pikka :)
06:00<frosch123>George: done
06:00<frosch123> <- planetmaker: wanna give it a review? :)
06:00<George>frosch123: thank you, trying to code
06:01<George>does effect_spawn_model mean the time when effect happens, not the effect itself?
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06:07<George>effect_spawn_model_and_powered: EFFECT_SPAWN_MODEL_NONE should cause no effects regarles CB10?
06:07<@planetmaker>frosch123, what does value range ' ENABLE_WAGON_POWER ' for trains indicate?
06:09<frosch123>it's not explained for visual_effect_and_powered either :)
06:09<frosch123>i think it is a good thing that it is not explained
06:09<frosch123>then people won't use it
06:10<frosch123>and it would take 10 pages to explain unexpected side effects
06:10<@planetmaker>ah, that... ok :)
06:10<frosch123>we could add a comment, about it not being explained
06:12<George>frosch123: effect_spawn_model_and_powered: EFFECT_SPAWN_MODEL_NONE should cause no effects regarles CB10?
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06:17<frosch123>George: effect_spawn_model_and_powered is essentially the same as callback 10
06:17<frosch123>it just has new values
06:17<frosch123>values which enable callback 'spawn_effect' instead of implying a fixed sprite and position
06:18<George>so I can remove every visual_effect_and_powered part from my GRF and replace it with effect_spawn_model_and_powered and create_effect?
06:23<George>does a newly created vehicle has no visual effect and powered by default, or it has to be specified directly?
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06:29<NGC3982>Tropico 5. <34
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06:33<andythenorth>will I draw Hog?
06:41<andythenorth>also consist management
06:46<andythenorth>I just type that in?
06:47<@peter1138>Yup, it's a secret code.
06:47<andythenorth>engine, wood car...
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06:52<Pikkaphone>engine, car, car, engine
06:52<Pikkaphone>just like that
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08:00<andythenorth>bored is andythenorth
08:00<Pikkaphone>in that case
08:01<andythenorth>can’t we just talk bollocks, instead of making things?
08:01<Pikkaphone>evidence points to yes
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08:04<Pikkaphone>I wonder if the washing machine has finished
08:04<andythenorth>if it’s still going around and around
08:04<andythenorth>then no
08:04<andythenorth> but if you see a cat in there
08:04<andythenorth>that’s not good
08:05<Pikkaphone>I can't see it from here, innit
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08:06*andythenorth needs daylength 0.5x
08:06<andythenorth>this game is a bit boring
08:07<Pikkaphone>someone should make a more interesting gs
08:08<Pikkaphone>after they do all the millions of university werks I'm supposed to be doing this week
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08:33<@peter1138>andythenorth, yeah, those palette animations are hardwork these days...
08:35<andythenorth>you’d think
08:35<andythenorth>@calc 1680*1050
08:35<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 1764000
08:35<andythenorth>it’s really not that many pixels
08:37<Pikka>full animation is a bad feature
08:38<V453000>NO :D
08:38<Pikka>"full animation" is a bad feature
08:38<Pikka>but so is full animation tbh
08:38<V453000>what do you mean by that? :D
08:38<andythenorth> Squid wakes look stupid without full animation
08:38<andythenorth>but eh
08:39<Pikka>when one of your industries starts up, I may as well have turned FF off :P
08:39<V453000>cpu death?
08:39<andythenorth>I haven’t bothered with many FIRS animations
08:40<andythenorth>it’s a nice touch but tmwftlb
08:40<@peter1138>full animation used to be free :(
08:40<V453000>yeah I guess it could do wtf with FF :D
08:40<V453000>but then, why FF :)
08:40<andythenorth>peter1138: I blam Apple
08:40<V453000>use lower cost settings if you need to FF
08:40<andythenorth>blame *
08:41<Pikka>because testing and not actually playing
08:41<V453000>ok, so animations are a bad feature for testing :P
08:43<andythenorth>animations are just FEATURE
08:43<andythenorth>not good or bad
08:43<andythenorth>fruit trucks
08:44<V453000>well luckily YETI now supports 8bpp mode without animations, so if someone is having serious issues, just switches the blitter to 8bpp and done
08:44<Pikka>yes V
08:44<Pikka>but then they won't be able to use pineapple trains with yetis on flatcars
08:44<V453000>issue of Pineapples? :P
08:45<Pikka>but I don't care enough to do anything about it :D
08:45<V453000>that is why I like the idea of extending NUTS to 32bpp
08:45<V453000>8bpp is done
08:45<andythenorth>oddly, “banana electric tram” isn’t turning up much on google
08:45<Pikka>probably got safe search on
08:46<Pikka>I should time how long it takes to compile pineapple trains
08:46<Pikka>it's a while...
08:46<andythenorth>I’ll have to invent these trams
08:46<V453000>Pikka yeti takes 3 hours
08:47<Pikka>that's not just grfcodec :P
08:47<Pikka>at least I hope not :)
08:47<V453000>well I did use to go compile it through NFO earlier
08:47<V453000>devzone just goes straight through nml :)
08:48<Pikka>it's the loading 35 thousand separate pngs that takes it so long :)
08:48<V453000>they arent that separate :)
08:48<V453000>1 png for 16 tiles
08:49<V453000>... per frame :)
08:49<Pikka>35 thousand is pineapple trains :P
08:49<Pikka>I imagine there's quite a few for yeti, though :D
08:51<andythenorth>35k :o
08:52<andythenorth>how did you get so many? o_O
08:52<Pikka>well, the grofe gronk is by far the "heaviest", it has 2320 sprites.
08:53<Pikka>8 directions * 9 animation frames * 16 liveries * 2 directions, + 16 for the buy menu. :)
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08:54<Pikka>a normal, un-animated, no-load-states 8/8 vehicle is still 128 sprites, 8 directions * 16 liveries. it's doing different liveries for each CC that blows it out. :P
08:55*andythenorth looks
08:55<andythenorth>that’s just showing off :)
08:57<V453000>yeti creates spritesheets in postproduction
08:57<V453000>so there are 128*5 + 16 pngs
08:57<V453000>not more, not less :)
08:58<V453000>which contains *16 sprites :)
08:58<Pikka>how rare
08:58<V453000>@calc 656*16
08:58<@DorpsGek>V453000: 10496
08:58<V453000>30% of pineapples :P
08:59<V453000>btw Pikka, directions can be solved by reversing the sprite order in the template :P
08:59<V453000>not exactly reversing but you get the point
08:59<Pikka> better helmets? didn't alter the geometry, just the smoothing groups
09:00<V453000>do you have any turbosmooth on it?
09:00<Pikka>yes, but they're still additional sprites in the grf :)
09:01<V453000>I think NUTS has around 60k+, but for majorly bigger number of trains :P
09:01<Pikka>that's how I do it with the olde 8bpp sprites, but for rendering it's easier just to chuck out additional renders with the correct positioning rather than mucking about with different offsets :D
09:01<Pikka>and no, it's not turbosmoothed. like I said I didn't alter the geometry at all...
09:01<V453000>the geometry is prepared for turbosmoothing
09:02<V453000>I just turned it off to lower the poly count for exporting
09:02<V453000>at least 1 turbosmooth iteration is good
09:02<V453000>the hardhat gets smooth top with about 3
09:02*peter1138 ponders ignoring station feature icons for the time being.
09:03<liq3>V453000: is it just me, or is rather hard to service every industry in YETI on small maps?
09:03<V453000>why would it be hard?
09:03<andythenorth>peter1138: just delete them
09:03<liq3>because there's 15 secondary industries?
09:04<V453000>seems reasonably easy to me
09:04<argoneus>is it me or is FIRS more annoying than fun
09:04<argoneus>with all the engineering supplies and shit
09:04<andythenorth>my views on that are known by some
09:04<liq3>FIRS is annoying when the trainset is awfully balanced.
09:05<Pikka>maybe I shouldn't have dicked around with the smoothing groups then, turbosmooth is doing funny things :)
09:06<Pikka>I'll see how it renders, if worst comes to worst I'll just have to reimport it
09:06<V453000>I am not sure what exactly do smoothing groups do with turbosmooth
09:06<V453000>I thought only geometry influences it
09:06<argoneus>is NUTS best used with YETI?
09:06<andythenorth>I find FIRS quite boring to play
09:06<V453000>is that a question argoneus ? :)
09:06<andythenorth>especially Full FIRS economy
09:07<V453000>FIRS is fun until you discover how it works :P
09:07<argoneus>V453000: y-yes
09:07<andythenorth>there’s method?
09:07<argoneus>was YETI made with NUTS in mind
09:07<argoneus>or independently
09:07<V453000>NUTS simply has wagons for all cargoes, with various graphics
09:07<V453000>which no other set has so far
09:07<V453000>so yes you could say it is most fitting
09:07<argoneus>"fitting", hehe
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09:09<andythenorth>argoneus: what’s boring? Finding the supplies, or their effect?
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09:11<argoneus>andythenorth: well
09:11<argoneus>there's just so much cargo you have to transfer
09:11<argoneus>and if you transport the supplies
09:11<argoneus>you suddenly produce 4x more
09:11<argoneus>and your line might not b enough
09:11<argoneus>so you make more trains
09:11<Pikka>there, turbosmoothed the helmets. turbosmoothing the yetis does funny things where I bent them to make them sit down, though :)
09:11<argoneus>and suddenly it's too much, etc
09:12<andythenorth>and then your network deadlocks
09:12<andythenorth>because you feed the coal and stuff into supplies
09:12<V453000>the yetis dont need smoothing as much
09:12<andythenorth>if the supplies drop off for any reason (train jam / whatever)
09:12<andythenorth>then your whole map can block
09:13<andythenorth>stupid FIRS
09:13<Pikka>just one more thing to plan for :P
09:13<V453000>that effect is much more significant in YETI :)
09:13<V453000>overflows win
09:13<Pikka>aw man
09:13<Pikka>takes so much longer to render with smoothed helmets :P
09:13<V453000>likely :)
09:14<V453000>my animations render for whoel night :P
09:14<Pikka>I'm impatient and 3 seconds per frame is too long to wait!
09:14<andythenorth>faster computerisers needed
09:14<liq3>the main problem I have with supplies in FIRS/YETI is you have trains for extra production, but then it messes up, then your Supplies trains can't get the station.
09:14<liq3>by messing up, I mean you end up with lots of trains waiting.
09:14<V453000>that is the issue you as a player have to solve liq3
09:15<V453000>sending wood to sawmill and having a deadlock because your goods trains blocked it occurs with original industries too
09:15<liq3>my solution is waiting bays and splitting the entrances sooner. :P
09:15<V453000>overflow depots solve it ultimately
09:15<liq3>oh I mean like
09:15<V453000>but yes that solution is valid
09:15<liq3>you have a worker yard, and it's got trains for 300 YETIs a month, but then your food trains get delayed, the YETIs drop to 150 a month, and you end up with 3-4 YETI empty YETI trains blocking the station so the food train can't deliver food and fix the problem. :P
09:16<V453000>refit is also very good because that gets rid of the problem entirely
09:16<liq3>yeh true
09:16<liq3>never thought to do refits.
09:16<Pikka>also, that's why you have seperate drop and pickup platforms. or one more platform than pickups. :)
09:16<liq3>I do have seperate drop/pickup. :P
09:16<liq3>I just have way more YETI trains than platforms.
09:16<V453000>Pikka: even that can fill up :P
09:17<V453000>if you have a lot of trains going to one station, slight differences can be devastating
09:17<V453000>these 4 articles I just linked will solve all of your problems liq3 :P
09:17<liq3>pretty tempted to use overflows. gonna end up with a bunch of trains I don't need tho :D
09:17<liq3>don't 'need'.
09:18<andythenorth>FIRS was pretty much designed to require not-trains for delivering supplies
09:18<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE
09:18<andythenorth>you really are supposed to use road vehicles or planes
09:18<andythenorth>if I was starting today, I’d make a different mistake instead
09:18<liq3>I've been playing FIRS on the Reddit Hard Server that has the American train sets and stuff. they're so badly balanced. Trucks are way underpowered.
09:18<George>what is correct name for effect_spawn_model?
09:18<V453000>having trains which you dont need doesnt hurt anything
09:19<V453000>AND you dont have to use the overflow, it can just be safety mechanism
09:19<George> says effect_spawn_model
09:19<V453000>so you can have all trains needed :P
09:19<George>nmlc says it effect_spawn_model_and_powered
09:19<George>Who is wrong?
09:19<George>andythenorth: ?
09:20<liq3>V453000: that's really tempting. I'll try it on a few stations.
09:20<George>nmlc ERROR: "xussr.nml", line 4157: Unknown property name: effect_spawn_model
09:20<V453000>it isnt just tempting, it is a good solution. :)
09:20<andythenorth>yes that’s wrong
09:20*andythenorth checks nml src
09:21<andythenorth>yup effect_spawn_model_and_powered
09:21<andythenorth>L329 is worth noting
09:22<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26990 /trunk/src (11 files in 4 dirs) (2014-10-11 13:22:37 UTC)
09:22<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Add option to choose normal, double or quad-size interface.
09:22*peter1138 runs away
09:23<andythenorth>although it’s old news
09:23<George>and the main problem is that when I specify only effect_spawn_model_and_powered and create_effect I do not get any visual effect at all.
09:23<andythenorth>I’ve had it for days
09:23<Pikka>yes but now it's officially official
09:23<andythenorth>George: you’ve seen sample code from Squid?
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09:23<andythenorth>or you want some?
09:23<George>I looked at it
09:23<George>And tryed to reproduce
09:24<George>And I can't make it wokk
09:24<andythenorth>so you set effect_spawn_model to a constant?
09:24<andythenorth>EFFECT_SPAWN_MODEL_STEAM or whatever
09:24<andythenorth>as property
09:24<liq3>V453000: Also, servicing 15 secondaries on a small map is somewhat challenging. Trying to figure out how to connect them all to the mainline...
09:24<andythenorth>and then create_effect cb
09:24<andythenorth>pushing to register 0x100 for first effect
09:24<V453000>define small map
09:25<andythenorth>and returning 1
09:25<liq3>256x512, water on all edges.
09:25<George>effect_spawn_model_and_powered: EFFECT_SPAWN_MODEL_ELECTRIC;
09:25<V453000>also, everything depends on amount of worker yards liq3
09:25<V453000>256x512 is reasonably large
09:25<liq3>feels small to me :<
09:25<Pikka>in my day we had 256x256 and we were grateful
09:25<V453000>for one company 256x512 is great
09:25<Pikka>64x128 is a small map :)
09:26<andythenorth>George: you’re doing trains?
09:26<George>andythenorth: yes
09:26<@peter1138>512x512 is small apparently :S
09:26<andythenorth>trains != ships
09:26<andythenorth>brb, looking at code
09:26<Pikka>yes but reddit is the home of people who are wrong about everything, peter1138
09:26<liq3>got Food, Stone, Clay, Wood all right next to each, and need to connect YETIs to it too.
09:28<liq3>V453000: Also, you're like the expert at OpenTTD! :<
09:28<liq3>Of course you'd find it easy.
09:28<andythenorth>OpenTTD is easy
09:28<V453000>just try harder :)
09:28<andythenorth>start with pax, make $$$£££€€€€
09:28<liq3>Oh, I intend to figure it out. :P
09:28<liq3>Just gonna take me another 10 hours :D
09:28<V453000>if you use too many towns on your map and connect all worker yards, sure it will be harder
09:28<andythenorth>the hard bit is not getting bored
09:28<liq3>Yes. Must connect everything. :D
09:29<liq3>And must drop Food/BDMT to every worker yard.
09:29*andythenorth looks
09:29<liq3>and also must drop machinery to every secondary :D
09:30<@peter1138>Wow, that scroll-on-click is fscking annoying.
09:30<V453000>nobody said you must do that to every industry :)
09:30<liq3>I did. :]
09:30<V453000>yeti allows for a lot of various "strategies"
09:30<liq3>It's what I find fun.
09:30<V453000>nothing wrong with that :)
09:31<liq3>I had 250 trains on my last game. Original OpenTTD 256x256 map, services farms, iron, steel, goods.
09:31<liq3>TL3 lev3s.
09:31<andythenorth>George: so that should result in disabled effects?
09:32<George>there should be effects in the front|end of wagon depending on position
09:32<andythenorth>that code is returning disable_create_effect()
09:32<George>0 (value)
09:33<andythenorth>or is there some CPP macro expansion I’m missing?
09:33*andythenorth hates reading CPP magic code
09:33<George>no CPP
09:34<andythenorth>something must expand er1_m_create_effect_direction_template ?
09:35<andythenorth>because that’s only referenced once
09:36<George>I'll try to make a small GRF to illustrate
09:37<andythenorth>the test case was ships, so possible that there is an nmlc bug
09:37<andythenorth>but I can’t see it when I look
09:37<@peter1138>yeti-offsets are weird :S
09:38<andythenorth>wonder if I should do FIRS 2
09:39<andythenorth>“now less rubbish"
09:39<andythenorth>the thing is
09:39<andythenorth>that for NoCarGoal you only need three cargos
09:39<andythenorth>so an industry set could be really simple
09:40<Pikka>assuming you're playing nocargoal
09:40<Pikka>someone should make a better gs :/
09:40<@peter1138>never played it
09:40<andythenorth>‘mine’ -> ‘raw stuff’ -> ‘processor’ -> ‘processed stuff’ -> ‘factory’ -> ‘finished stuff’
09:40<andythenorth>no crap
09:41<andythenorth>would work for Silicon Valley too
09:42<Pikka>speaking of offsets
09:42<V453000>yeti offsets should be changed in 0.1.0 peter1138
09:42<Pikka>just showing a single head for MUs, and having them with the same offsets in the buy menu as other vehicles, no longer seems to be trivial. at least not in normal zoom... :/
09:43<@peter1138>V453000, you should crop the sprites better...
09:43<Pikka>'cause OpenTTD got too smart and autosizes/positions the sprites. changing the x offset has no effect whatsoever.
09:43<@peter1138>V453000, all the blank alpha :(
09:43<George>er1 itself starts at line 1267
09:43<V453000>the bottom edge alpha has been gotten rid of
09:43<V453000>the top of the industry is harder
09:44<@peter1138>V453000, I meant the sprites which are like 700 pixels high but only the button couple hundred are used.
09:44<V453000>what is wrong with that
09:44<@peter1138>It's pretty wasteful.
09:44<V453000>does it waste anything?
09:45<@peter1138>Sprites get fully decoded when loading
09:45<V453000>well animated sprites are like 80% alpha
09:45<V453000>and there isnt really any better way to do it either
09:45<liq3>V453000: would those overflows even work properly with trains dropping off supplies?
09:45<andythenorth>George: can’t see any obvious reason that doesn’t work
09:45<andythenorth>sorry :|
09:45<V453000>you dont need overflow for drop trains?
09:46<@peter1138>V453000, doesn't nml auto crop? :(
09:46<liq3>right, I guess you just split the drop before the overflow.
09:46<V453000>I dont know what nml does
09:46<@peter1138>pretty sure nfo could do that
09:46<@peter1138>grfcodec i mean
09:46<V453000>yes liq3
09:46<Pikka>grfcodec autocrops unless you tell it not to, yes
09:46<V453000>feel free to join openttdcoop welcome server, a lot of overflow usage there
09:47<@peter1138>V453000, all that alpha can waste ram as well
09:47<@peter1138>and cpu as it gets drawn (but not drawn)
09:47<V453000>I have no way to change it
09:47<@peter1138>No way? You didn't make it?
09:48<V453000>without utter difficulties
09:49<@peter1138>Hmm, there's -c
09:49*andythenorth lost in music
09:49<liq3>V453000: btw, you aware of the Oil Refinarey YETI sprite bug?
09:49<@peter1138>I wonder if that works with real alpha instead of just transparent blue.
09:49<V453000>liq3: ?
09:50<liq3>top of the oil refinary disappears and reappears.
09:50<V453000>might be too tall sprites, but I havent seen that happen yet
09:51<liq3>i'm using r26978 btw.
09:51<liq3>erm, r26968
09:51<@peter1138>That happens with some of the default buildings.
09:51<liq3>so maybe nightly bug?
09:51<@peter1138>No, it's always been like that.
09:52<liq3>looks like this
10:03<@peter1138>V453000, looks like nmlc can automatically crop
10:04<@peter1138>V453000, so just add -c to the nmlc line
10:04<V453000>I dont even know where to do that, devzone compiles it
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10:12<Eddi|zuHause>anyone got a command line for converting a 32bpp image to 8bpp?
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>needs to handle special palette colours correctly
10:18<andythenorth>I’d probably do it in PIL
10:18<andythenorth>as that’s all I know ;)
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>that still doesn't answer the question
10:24<V453000>I solve that by making all sprites into one png
10:24<V453000>and converting in photoshop as one file
10:24<andythenorth>if it’s a straight application of a palette then it’s trivial in PIL
10:24<andythenorth>but you’ll need to downsample no?
10:25<andythenorth>and you might need special transforms for specific colours
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: must be a command line, no manual interaction
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: also, i have no photoshop
10:28<V453000>you have fucking gimp :)
10:29<V453000>gimp cant convert palette or what
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>still doesn't mean i know the command line interface to that
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>it almost certainly can't
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>err, can
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't know how. and i was hoping someone already has this implemented somewhere
10:30<V453000>one edit in gimp isnt that much work is it
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: must be ZERO manual interaction.
10:31<V453000>creating the sprites is already so much work that one edit is minimal
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't create the sprites
10:32<V453000>that isnt really related
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>also, there are like 100000 sprites
10:32<V453000>and they dont exist?
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>they potentially exist
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>but they won't exist if i can't convert them
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11:01<George>frosch123, andythenorth: I've a strongfeeling that var 61 does not work in CB 160
11:02<George>Could someone check it?
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11:06<George>here GRF and NML attached
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11:11<Eddi|zuHause>George: did you update your nightly recently?
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, was committed in 26988
11:12<argoneus>choo choo
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>George: next nightly is in 2 hours
11:12<George>I'll try now
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11:18<frosch123>George: i've just added that yesterday
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11:21<George>I've downloaded 26987 and it does not wok there
11:22<George>there can I get the more recent one?
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11:37<frosch123>they become available at 20:30 cest
11:38<George>3 hours later
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12:16<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26991 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2014-10-11 16:16:52 UTC)
12:17<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6132]: typo in help text (Supercheese)
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12:32<@peter1138>-rw-r--r-- 1 petern petern 142446311 Oct 11 15:30 YETI.grf
12:32<@peter1138>-rw-r--r-- 1 petern petern 162294898 Oct 8 18:32 YETI.grf-old
12:32<@peter1138>cropped is 20MB smaller, apparently o_O
12:32<@peter1138>I would not have thought the size would change much :S
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12:35<@peter1138>Of course, it is subtly broken.
12:36<@peter1138>Child-sprites do weird things :S
12:40<@peter1138>How do child-sprite offsets even work? :S
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12:47<Wolf01>hi hi
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12:52<NGC3982>When does the steel cart get available in OpenGFX+?
12:52<NGC3982>..And does it? :>
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13:02<Eddi|zuHause>base sets do not change availability
13:11<Wolf01> I can't understan why they need such big depots, they look like 8x4 tiles
13:12<Wolf01>and look at all that eyecandy tracks for every entrance
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13:43<@peter1138>OpenGFX+ is not a base set.
13:44<@peter1138>Wolf01, unrealistic, tracks shouldn't curve like that.
13:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26992 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2014-10-11 17:48:09 UTC)
13:48<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:48<@DorpsGek>basque - 60 changes by Thadah
13:48<@DorpsGek>french - 10 changes by glx
13:48<@DorpsGek>italian - 8 changes by lorenzodv
13:48<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 4 changes by cuthbert
13:48<@DorpsGek>swedish - 3 changes by Zuu
13:59<@planetmaker>good evening
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14:27<@planetmaker>NGC3982, I'd think it gets available as flatbed car... usual time 1925 for rail, 180 for monorail and 2010 for maglev
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14:48<NGC3982>I see.
14:48<NGC3982>No, it doesn't.
14:48<NGC3982>Oh, wait.
14:48<NGC3982>No, my bad.
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15:02<Supercheese>Aah, more strings
15:02<@planetmaker>Supercheese, so... you finished Latin?
15:02<Supercheese>Indeed, proofreading phase
15:03<Supercheese>although a couple new strings were juuust added
15:04<@planetmaker>well, I think I can trust you to fix that with web translator even when I commit that as-is ;)
15:05<Supercheese>oh I am translating them right now, shouldn't take long
15:06<@planetmaker>can you give me the draft version so that I can prepare stuff?
15:06<NGC3982>Guys, i like the OpenTTD graphics.
15:06<NGC3982>It's a cool thing.
15:06<NGC3982>Although, i just bought a new computer and i'm trying out Alien Isolation.
15:07<Supercheese>I was planning on posting it for review on the forums shortly
15:07<NGC3982>Sweet jesus, graphics has come a long way.
15:07<Supercheese>see if maybe I can find someone else who can help catch typos/grammatical errors
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15:10<Supercheese>Should I post the thread under General? Development...?
15:10<@planetmaker>good question. Probably general might catch more attention. And it's more a translation than development thing
15:11<Supercheese>roger dodger
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15:24<__ln__>surely it'll be included in 1.4.4?
15:25<@peter1138>What will?
15:29<Supercheese>this could take a while; I am attempting to list the sources I consulted
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15:50<@peter1138>George, r26992 is a translator commit, how could that have fixed CB160?
16:00<Supercheese>as an administrative note, I randomly chose 0x66 for the langid as it seemed free
16:00<Supercheese>reassign as required
16:00<@planetmaker>Rubidium, I faintly recall that there was some rule for picking a grflangID for language?
16:01<Supercheese>oh, and I suppose the nominative case is technically not required to be enumerated there
16:01<frosch123>planetmaker: yes, international phone number :p
16:01<Supercheese>and since station/town names cannot be inflected I guess locative isn't needed either
16:01<@planetmaker>hm, indeed
16:01<frosch123>does the vatikan have one?
16:02<@planetmaker>though de-facto it's the one of rome
16:02<@planetmaker>but they have another one
16:02<MNIM>also, some countries have multiple languages
16:02<MNIM>or are you just going to do it canadian-style?
16:03<@planetmaker>MNIM, so how is that remark relevant?
16:03<MNIM>"pour assimilation en francais poussez deux"
16:03<MNIM>international phone number for langID
16:03<@planetmaker>the *grf*langID is anyway somewhat arbitrary
16:03<frosch123>i am going to dispute the decimal separator choice :p
16:04<@planetmaker>lol :)
16:04<@planetmaker>anyhow, the 'real' phone country code does not fit in below 0x80, afaik
16:04<frosch123>make the thousand separator NBSP at least, as any sane language should do
16:04<Supercheese>I never understand why commas and periods are inverted
16:04<Supercheese>or ugh spaces
16:05<Supercheese>One million = 1,000,000
16:05<@planetmaker> +379
16:05<frosch123>@base 10 16 37
16:05<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 25
16:07<Supercheese>I never did find out if all those extra cases were needed for the STR_CARGO_SINGULAR strings
16:07<frosch123>Supercheese: once commited the comments will be dropped by wt3
16:07<frosch123>there are no language-specific comments in the lang files
16:07<frosch123>so, if you want to keep them, you would have to put them on the wiki or something
16:07<Supercheese>Hmm, how to give a note to translators
16:07<Supercheese>I see
16:09<@planetmaker>making a wiki page is not a bad idea, I think
16:09<@planetmaker>but how to give note... that's a good question and imho a lack of feature in wt3
16:09<Supercheese>Indeed, I am planning on an entry on Vicipaedia for the overall game
16:10<Supercheese>might as well go in the OTTD wiki too
16:11<Supercheese>I cannot honestly tell if the Singular cargo strings are actually used anywhere in the game
16:11<Supercheese>source search turns up header/table files only
16:12<George>peter1138: between 26987 and 26992 to be exact. Unfortunatly these are the only win32 executables I can download
16:13<Supercheese>Perhaps I'm searching poorly
16:13<frosch123>Supercheese: looks like the singular form is only used in subsidy news
16:14<Supercheese>Oh hmm
16:14<frosch123>STR_NEWS_SERVICE_SUBSIDY_OFFERED :{BIG_FONT}{BLACK}Service subsidy offered:{}{}First {STRING} service from {STRING2} to {STRING2} will attract a year's subsidy from the local authority!
16:14<Supercheese>Due to an oddity in the English, yes I see
16:14<frosch123>that one, and the award/withdrawal
16:15<Supercheese>thanks, I'll have to double check that
16:15<frosch123>well, look weird to me. could be wrong in a lot of languages :p
16:15<Supercheese>it is very weird
16:16<Supercheese>d'oh, should be plural how I've worded it in Latin
16:17<frosch123>anyway, i still suggest to change the thousand separator to NBSP
16:18<frosch123>that's the most international standard, recommdened by iso, and generally makes sense for typed text
16:18<Supercheese>Not configurable in game, I take it
16:18<@planetmaker>yes, I tend to agree there
16:18<Supercheese>perhaps that setting should be removed from the langfile
16:18<Supercheese>and put in Localization Settings
16:19<Supercheese>aren't currency separators configurable in-game?
16:19<frosch123>only prefix/postfix
16:19<frosch123>(i think)
16:20<Supercheese>Custom Currency -> Separator
16:20<frosch123>hmm, then i wonder why it is part of the language at all :p
16:21*Supercheese votes to move separators to Localization
16:22<frosch123>ah, i see, if the currency does not specify one, the language takes effect
16:23<@planetmaker>hm, new currency? Sesterz
16:23<frosch123>aren't there multiple?
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16:24<@planetmaker>wiki knows 1 Aureus = 25 Denar = 100 Sesterz = 200 Dupondien = 400 Asse
16:25<@Rubidium>planetmaker: as already said... international calling code, otherwise something like the calling code and in case of utter failures... the first one that isn't used and doesn't seem to be a calling code
16:25<Ieuan>Is this the right place to ask a question about signals?
16:25<Supercheese>Sestertius et Denarius in my textbook at least
16:25<Supercheese>and yeah, some other coinages
16:26<Supercheese>but hey, Custom currencies supported
16:26<frosch123>well, i don't think it needs a currency for now
16:26<frosch123>not all translations have a currency
16:26<@planetmaker>was more a joke, frosch123 :)
16:26<Supercheese>right, anyone can make their own should they want
16:26<@planetmaker>Ieuan, in principle yes
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16:27<Ieuan>I have a pretty massive system now, one line of it is primarily bridge/tunnel because of rough terrain. I want to stop trains from getting killed when they join up with the other line but I can't place any signals inside the tunnels/bridges and I don't want all the trains to wait until the one in front is all the way through the tunnels/bridges
16:27<Ieuan>Is there any way to do that?
16:27<@planetmaker>build track over the mountain?
16:27<Ieuan>So, with my current line, no?
16:28<@planetmaker>but what do you mean with 'kill'?
16:28<Ieuan>The track is mine, the station isn't
16:28<Ieuan>All the way to the center of the map is one huge line mostly bridge or tunnel
16:28<Ieuan>If I just have those path signals when they come out of the tunnel, will all trains wait at the path signal before the tunnel/bridge before they continue?
16:29<Ieuan>Because this is going to be a choke point and in that case it would make the other side of the tunnel a choke point as well
16:29<@planetmaker>simple path signal rule: place a signal where you want to allow a train to wait
16:30<@peter1138>Nice sharp bends there.
16:30<@planetmaker>you place some *after* the join. Thus you allow explicitly the whole junction to be blocked by one train
16:30<@planetmaker>waiting for a free path
16:30*Supercheese is changing the STR_CARGO_SINGULAR strings to plural, and feels weird
16:31<@planetmaker>vice versa. Those must go
16:31<Phreeze>germany losing to poland
16:31<Ieuan>Like that?
16:33<Ieuan>How do I stop them from reserving the whole line then?
16:33<@peter1138>So-called "safe waiting points", because a train waiting there doesn't block the junction.
16:33<Ieuan>Just normal signals after the join?
16:33<@peter1138>What's wrong with them reserving it?
16:33<Ieuan>I.. I don't know
16:34<Ieuan>Oh I do, nothing's wrong with that
16:34<Ieuan>The next intersection would have the same thing
16:34<Supercheese>Can I update the file I posted with some corrections now, or should I wait?
16:35<@planetmaker>just update
16:36<Supercheese>will do
16:37<@peter1138>V453000, hee, NUTS purchase list with 2x gui :D
16:37<Phreeze>"Full" purchase list ? :)
16:38<Supercheese>"Note to translators: The SINGULAR strings are intentionally plural here in Latin, because English is ridiculous."
16:38<@peter1138>Nah, it's 1950.
16:38<@peter1138>Because *Latin* is ridiculous.
16:38<@peter1138>Hmm, I dunno what engine/wagons I should use :p
16:38<Supercheese>need to update again
16:42<frosch123>peter1138: did you decide for a track type already? :p
16:43<MNIM>peter1138: YOU are ridiculous. :P
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16:47<__ln__>a lot of international calling codes won't fit into <0x80
16:47<FLHerne>Supercheese: English only really looks ridiculous if you try to apply latin-based grammar terminology to it
16:48<MNIM>or any kind of actual grammar terminology. :P
16:50<FLHerne>MNIM: I'm not so sure - there's nothing particularly insane about the grammar, it's just that it doesn't map well to the concepts grammarians would like it to
16:50<FLHerne>As Bill Bryson put it, "the only form of sentence where you cannot use the 'present tense' form of drive, is the present tense"
16:53<@planetmaker>@base 10 16 37
16:53<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 25
16:54<@planetmaker>frosch123, I'd leave 0x25 free for one of the other more probably language in that range
16:54<frosch123>also fine
16:54<frosch123>it's like grfids, they do not really matter
16:55<frosch123>if we get more than 127 translations, we will have to find a solution though :p
16:55<@planetmaker>or we just decide to fill grflangids starting from 0x00 upward
16:55<frosch123>just take a random value from the middle
16:56<@planetmaker>then I leave 0x66 :)
16:57<MNIM>FLHerne: take it from a non-native - English grammar is childishly simplified. there's a reason it's a lingua franca nowadays... ;)
16:58*planetmaker wonders if Supercheese will kill me when I change digitsep to {NBSP} though ;)
16:58<MNIM>and in general, spelling makes no sense whatsoever.
16:59<__ln__>MNIM: english isn't a very usable lingua franca even within europe.
16:59<frosch123>it works quite well in north america
16:59<MNIM>Europe doesn't count, being freaking europe.
17:02<FLHerne>MNIM: Sure, but 'simplified' doesn't really mean 'insane'. Agreed that spellings are just crazy
17:02<Phreeze>english is understoof everywhere in europe
17:02<Phreeze>if it isn't any other than the native one isn't either
17:03<frosch123>Phreeze: you will find many places where russian is understood, and not native
17:03<Taede>given that r26992 was only committed today (11th october), why does trunk download page say it was first released on 10th october?
17:04<@planetmaker>different time zone?
17:04<Phreeze>yeah ok ...
17:04<Phreeze>but even if it's understoof, people dont like it xd like in bulgaria
17:04<@planetmaker>lingua franca is not about being liked
17:05<Taede>r26992, released on 2014-10-10 18:00 UTC
17:06<Taede>current time utc is 2014-10-11 21:06
17:06<MNIM>FLHerne: simplified as in counting to ten would be simplified to one-two-many-ten
17:06<MNIM>EG important bits are missing
17:07<@peter1138>It suffers from Youtube-syndrome.
17:08<Supercheese>Pretty much the only place digitsep comes into play is in currency, which can be overridden anyway methinks
17:09<Supercheese>do other values exceed 999?
17:09<Supercheese>Years, but no separator there
17:09<Supercheese>ah max num. of vehicles too
17:09<Taede>speed on some newgrf sets (vacuumtrain)
17:10<Taede>i think
17:10<@planetmaker>distance. All that stuff :)
17:10*Supercheese would very much like to see that lang-independent configurable
17:10<Supercheese>but I do agree space is more international
17:12<@planetmaker>ok, and plural forms are the same as English, thus 0 is correct, yes?
17:12<@planetmaker>0 houses, 1 house, 2...oo houses.
17:19<@planetmaker>ok, any more updates, or I'll just dare to commit it :)
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17:20<frosch123>planetmaker: you can alred start with nforenum, nml, eints, devzone roles, ... :p
17:20<frosch123>the hillariously long toolchain :)
17:21<@planetmaker>I've already patches for grfcodec and nml, yes
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17:21<@planetmaker>but not devzone and eints :)
17:21<@planetmaker>but thanks for the reminder for those two. Getting... looong indeed :)
17:21<Supercheese>planetmaker: You could remove "nom" and "loc" from case enumeration
17:21<Supercheese>they are not really required
17:22<frosch123>luckily grf2html is dead, so one less :p
17:22<Supercheese>I just added everything when I started translating and never edited it really
17:22<@planetmaker>Supercheese, ok, will remove those then
17:22<Supercheese>other than that, should be good to commit
17:22<Supercheese> :)
17:23<@planetmaker>Nice to see that ingame really. I think we already have latin town names set, do we?
17:23<Supercheese>yes but no case inflection :(
17:23<Supercheese>it will sadly look horrible
17:23<@planetmaker>but we really need no nominative?
17:23<Supercheese>well, it's just the default
17:23<Supercheese>no case
17:24<Supercheese>I never use it in a call {STRING.nom}
17:24<Supercheese>so therefore not required eh
17:25<@planetmaker>meh... svn diff: svn: E135000: Datei »/home/planetmaker/ottd/all-svn/trunk/bin/baseset/no_music.obm« hat inkonsistente Zeilenenden
17:25<frosch123>planetmaker: when adding the translator role to devzone, there is a script on the translator vm to sync the permissions
17:25<@planetmaker>how did it happen to get inconsistent line endings? (not related to latin, though)
17:25<frosch123>planetmaker: why not? it is assembled from the translations
17:26<frosch123>so, if you downloaded latin with win line endings
17:26<@planetmaker>mind the filename, frosch123 :)
17:26<@planetmaker>it doesn't touch the music.obm
17:27<@planetmaker>but will need to check that... lang files are just \n not \r\n, right?
17:27<frosch123>planetmaker: no description.la_VA ?
17:27<Supercheese>Hmm, I just hit enter in N++ and didn't think twice about it
17:27<frosch123>did superchees not translate them?
17:27<frosch123>i doubt that :p
17:27<@planetmaker>oh, he did. I forgot that it goes that way
17:27<@planetmaker>Supercheese, no worries. Already fixed
17:27<Supercheese>OH! That is why
17:28<Supercheese>I wondered why when I compiled those weren't translated
17:28<Supercheese>extra steps I see
17:30<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r26993 /trunk (13 files in 3 dirs) (2014-10-11 21:30:33 UTC)
17:30<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Latin translation (Supercheese)
17:31<Supercheese> can be closed
17:31<frosch123>planetmaker: svn properties
17:31<frosch123>(we use such silly vcs :p)
17:33<frosch123>svn propset svn:keywords Id src/lang/latin.txt; svn propset svn:eol-style native src/lang/latin.txt
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17:34<@planetmaker>I guess that also needs commit
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17:36<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r26994 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2014-10-11 21:35:56 UTC)
17:36<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26992): Missing svn properties
17:36<@planetmaker>and I can't count :P
17:36<frosch123>hmm, projects/generate hasn't been run in a time
17:37<@planetmaker>well, I just added it as the other languages
17:37<frosch123>The following headers are missing in source.list and not in /src/ or vice versa.
17:37<frosch123>> 3rdparty/squirrel/include/sqstdstring.h
17:37<frosch123>> table/heightmap_colours.h
17:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26995 /trunk (6 files in 2 dirs) (2014-10-11 21:38:32 UTC)
17:38<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Add missing files to source.list
17:39<frosch123>shall i add the translator role?
17:42<Supercheese> :)
17:43<@planetmaker>ty frosch123
17:43<frosch123>hmm, the script does not do the sorting though
17:44<@planetmaker>frosch123, any idea what it needs for eints?
17:44<frosch123>grep for german :p
17:45<frosch123>i would guess for 2 or 3 files needing adjusting
17:46<@planetmaker>where did you add the translator role?
17:46<Supercheese>It still shows as read only for me
17:47<frosch123>redmine devzone, the group is still missing
17:47<@planetmaker> shows no Translator group for latin. Or you talked of wt3?
17:47<frosch123>hmm, does also need a ldap group?
17:47<frosch123>planetmaker: group is second thing, first role
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17:51<frosch123>devzone group done
17:51<frosch123>i've assigned supercheese as translator btw :p
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17:56<@planetmaker>frosch123, so is there still sth to do for eints/devzone?
17:57<frosch123>devzone is ready. if eints is pushed, it needs pulling and restart
17:58<@planetmaker>I didn't change yet anything on eints
17:58<frosch123>i'll ad it
18:02<frosch123> <- any typos?
18:03<Supercheese>I do not see any
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18:06<@planetmaker>looks good, frosch123
18:06<@planetmaker>and I really hate it that fr<tab> does not complete anymore to frosch
18:08<@planetmaker>we also cater for the pope. One can't say we don't ;)
18:09<Supercheese>well, I'm not Catholic, so I don't really know much about the Vatican
18:09<Supercheese>Mass is no longer in Latin from what I hear
18:09<Supercheese>think some German fellow had something to do with that a few centuries ago ;)
18:13<@planetmaker>maybe also Belgian. Depends whether it's Calvin or Luther
18:16<MNIM>Supercheese: actually - no - second vatican council - in the 1960s
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18:16<MNIM>the catholic chruch /likes/ it's traditions. :P
18:16<Supercheese>Well, surely Luther had *something* to do with it
18:17<frosch>Supercheese: i think you can now translate silicon valley to latin
18:17<frosch>(i randomly picked a project, ofc)
18:18<@planetmaker>I wouldn't believe otherwise
18:18<@planetmaker> anyone?
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18:18<MNIM>Supercheese: if only, if only. :(
18:19<MNIM>well, indirectly, like butterflies and tsunamis, maybe
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19:57<NGC3982>PM: Harr.
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20:03<Supercheese>Hee, has had Latin as an example since 2006
20:03-!-tycoondemon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:03<Supercheese>8 years later...
20:06<Supercheese>Hmm, Webtranslator is still saying read-only
20:07<Supercheese>Perhaps it needs to do an initial commit
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20:27<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: well, there was a piglatin translation back then :p
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21:12<argoneus>good night, train friends
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 12 00:00:49 2014