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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-12

---Logopened Sun Oct 12 00:00:49 2014
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01:18<Pikka>so, what sprites is the base set missing in the nightly?
01:45<Supercheese>uhh, are there any?
01:45<Pikka>allegedly
01:46*Supercheese sees no such warning
01:47<Supercheese>Just compiled, haven't changed anything but the lang files and .exe
01:47<Supercheese>last time I updated base sets was many revisions ago
01:47<Pikka>how many?
01:47<Supercheese>let me see...
01:47<Pikka>I don't know how old my previous nightly was. perhaps a bit old. :)
01:48<Supercheese>Well, file modified date is 23 September
01:48<Supercheese>hmm
02:02-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
02:03<Pikka>innit though
02:06<V453000>hm, my pc crashed when commiting a change, so hg doesnt know it, but there are some remains of it, it told me to do hg recover, which I did, but it failed and said "ValueError: too many values to unpack". What do I do?
02:06<V453000>cant commit and cant seem to be able to recover either
02:07<Pikka>cry?
02:07<V453000>wreck the repo and pull it as a whole again?
02:08<V453000>btw Pikka you dared to contribute to the damned thread where nobody replies to your pictures XD
02:09<Pikka>huh?
02:09<V453000>just making fun of the fact that the yeti thread gets no attention even if you add images to it :P
02:10<Pikka>oh :)
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02:14<andythenorth>huzzah
02:14<Pikka>you filthy swine you
02:14<Pikka>heard from dan, btw :) he's on it.
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02:19<andythenorth>V453000: rename the repo, pull a new copy
02:19<andythenorth>merge your missing changes across manually
02:19<V453000>I moved my repo on another disk, removed the old one, pulling now
02:19<V453000>that works?
02:19<V453000>thanks :)
02:19<V453000>I just have new sprites which I can copy over later
02:20<andythenorth>I have repos like firs, firs.old, firs.new, firs.borked, firs.fix_case_sensitive_filesystem
02:20<andythenorth>if in doubt, pull a new one :P
02:20<V453000>XD
02:20<V453000>kay
02:20<V453000>except pulling a yeti repo is like 4gb or something :P
02:20<andythenorth>hg works self contained within the folder
02:21<andythenorth>you can move the folder around and rename the folder
02:21<V453000>well I also made hg forget that repo
02:26*andythenorth should really fix FIRS
02:26<Pikka>is it broken?
02:27<andythenorth>yair
02:27<andythenorth>it’s just annoying to play
02:27<andythenorth>supplies crap
02:27<Pikka>what you should do
02:27<Pikka>is just tweak it slightly
02:27<andythenorth>well
02:27<andythenorth>I have ideas
02:27<Pikka>until it's identical to my planned industry set
02:27<andythenorth>do you?
02:27<Pikka>then I don't have to make it
02:27-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit []
02:27<andythenorth>oic
02:28<andythenorth>well
02:28<andythenorth>what is your planned set looking like this week?
02:28<andythenorth>o_O
02:28<Pikka>particularly re supplies, I was planning to have just fmsp and ensp
02:28<Pikka>all coming out of the same factory, which is powered by goods
02:29-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@89.246.189.4] has joined #openttd
02:29<Pikka>so it's a little less fiddly than FIRS, but a little more.. something.. than YETI
02:29<Pikka>I don't know if it will work though because I haven't actually gotten around to doing anything with it :)
02:29<andythenorth>and what effect do the supplies have?
02:30<Pikka>good question
02:30<andythenorth>current FIRS has a small problem with supplies
02:30<andythenorth>due to an oversight
02:31<Pikka>inconcievable
02:31<andythenorth>I made it for playing multi-player coop nocargoal games
02:31<andythenorth>and that only
02:31<andythenorth>because that’s what we were doing then
02:31<andythenorth>:P
02:33<andythenorth>the 4x production boost is BAD FEATURE
02:33<Pikka>it's a bit OTT, perhaps
02:33<Pikka>especially combined with the cheaty station ratings
02:33<andythenorth>yeah, I don’t bother with those any more :)
02:34*andythenorth considers scorched earth rewrite of FIRS
02:34<Pikka>:D
02:34<Pikka>it worked for NARS
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02:35<andythenorth>what’s wrong with default industry behaviour anyway?
02:35<Pikka>rather boring?
02:38<andythenorth>getting the ratings up used to bug me
02:38<andythenorth>one coal mine with a 20 track maglev ro-ro
02:38<andythenorth>just to keep high ratings
02:39<Pikka>ye olde "100% is nominal, anything less is failure" syndrome
02:40<andythenorth>I hate that :P
02:44<andythenorth>been thinking for a long time about having FIRS listen to random prod. change cb
02:45<Pikka>hmm
02:45<Pikka>perhaps. but not the default doubling/halving, that's too much.
02:45<andythenorth>yeah
02:45<andythenorth>just increase / decrease by one
02:46<andythenorth>one might not be enough
02:46<Pikka>increase / decrease by teatime
02:48<andythenorth>deliver tea for production boost
02:48<andythenorth>sugar in yer peas
02:50*andythenorth wonders how YETI works
02:50<andythenorth>other than by WTF?
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02:52<V453000>produce_256 callback
02:52<V453000>all of it
02:52<V453000>works great
02:52<V453000>super dynamic production
02:54<V453000>have a game with yeti and see how it works :)
02:56<andythenorth>V453000: what do you hate most about FIRS supply handling?
02:57<V453000>probably not much about the supply handling, main problem is that some cargoes are useless
02:57<V453000>sure, it could be better, the produce_256 allows for a lot more freedom for the player, but in general it works fine reall
02:57<andythenorth>overly-cargoed
02:57<V453000>no
02:57<V453000>useless cargoes
02:57<V453000>as I said countless times, oil/metal wins. :)
02:58<andythenorth>unfortunate lesson in realism :(
02:58<V453000>there are still a lot of ways to change it :)
02:58<andythenorth>I dunno, I can’t see past the stupid way supplies work atm
02:59<V453000>why stupid?
02:59<andythenorth>- supplies are never where you want them
03:00<andythenorth>- have to drag tiny amounts of cargo clear across the map
03:00<andythenorth>- supplies are tedious if you have no planes available
03:00<andythenorth>- 4x boost is too much
03:00<andythenorth>- deadlocks easily
03:00<V453000>4x boost isnt too much
03:00<V453000>tedious, yes, rewarding, yes
03:00<V453000>farms are less rewarding (noted beforehand)
03:01<V453000>deadlocks easily = bad network, not newgrf fault
03:01<V453000>dragging tiny amount of cargo across the map is player choice
03:01<andythenorth>hmm
03:01<V453000>the only issue I see is that industries are DISCRIMINATED :)
03:01<andythenorth>the deadlocks aren’t always the network
03:01<andythenorth>depending what cdist does
03:01<andythenorth>I have deadlocks in my current game
03:01<andythenorth>with 100s of tonnes supplies waiting at source station, but not routed
03:02<V453000>when I played 1 game with cdist/FIRS, the supplies didnt even want to go to farms
03:02<andythenorth>so production falls to 1x
03:02<V453000>I dont think cdist is a good idea with FIRS at all
03:02<V453000>you are supposed do deliver exactly 84 or how much it was ES per month
03:02<V453000>to every industry
03:02<V453000>mixing cdist into it is just destructive
03:02<andythenorth>well
03:02<andythenorth>cdist is just a fact now
03:02<andythenorth>so FIRS should change to suit it
03:03<V453000>PS remember this? :D https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ke680mgjnnfpq8/FIRS_WTF1-01.png?dl=0
03:03<V453000>it isnt
03:03<V453000>it is just a fact for noobs and idiots
03:03<V453000>which has nothing to do with functional newgrf :P
03:03<andythenorth>it’s a fact in my games
03:03<V453000>ok :D
03:04<andythenorth>I’m back where I always end up
03:04<andythenorth>remove supplies
03:04<V453000>and what then? same mechanism as original industries?
03:04<Pikka>maybe I should make industries my next priority so I can play around with supplies mechanisms D:
03:04<andythenorth>maybe :P
03:05<andythenorth>now the zellepins are done and NARS is nearly done
03:05*andythenorth never forgets that supplies were invented to allow these to be added http://www.olli80.de/2006/0627_006.jpg
03:07*Pikka also wants to write an AI which understands supplies
03:07<Pikka>then it can explain them to the rest of us
03:13<V453000>I still support the notion of actually having an idea about functionality when creating a newgrf :P
03:13<Pikka>sure, but sometimes you need to experiment
03:14<V453000>of course :)
03:14<V453000>general idea/ scheme helps
03:23<andythenorth>I had no idea about FIRS
03:23<andythenorth>I just wanted an excuse for HEQS
03:24<andythenorth>hey look
03:24<andythenorth>my friend drives this train sometimes http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=501650&nseq=2
03:25<andythenorth>also one for V453000 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=501603&nseq=20
03:26<V453000>brauerei = brewery?
03:27<andythenorth>beer car
03:29<andythenorth>why does industry production change at all?
03:29<andythenorth>why not steady state?
03:30<Pikka>also a good question
03:31<liq3>What I don't understand is why industries in FIRS can't store up supplies, and just use 84 every 3 months.
03:31<andythenorth>they could
03:31<andythenorth>would it be good?
03:31<liq3>It'd allow less frequent trips of larger trains.
03:32<andythenorth>well
03:32<andythenorth>is that good?
03:32<V453000>worse
03:32<V453000>only player laziness
03:32<V453000>but it isnt utterly bad
03:32<andythenorth>is against the set goals
03:32<andythenorth>but maybe the set goals are bad
03:32<V453000>though dumping a 10 tile train at a tiny farm sounds like it should be discouraged
03:33<liq3>Well, the other way is allowing you to unload a specific amount.
03:33<liq3>but OTTD doesn't have that feature.
03:33<V453000>it does
03:33<liq3>it does?
03:33<V453000>simply build trains with that capacity
03:33<liq3>.........
03:33<liq3>Doesn't have that feature.
03:33<liq3>;p
03:33<V453000>e.g. NUTS has many ways to get 84 supplies
03:33<V453000>or the other numbers
03:34<andythenorth>it was a goal of FIRS to rebalance away from trains
03:34<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE
03:34<V453000>what is wrong with building a train with the right capacity and sending there one per month?
03:34<liq3>The only way I can think of is to use a station as storage, and have a tiny network move around 84 supplies every 3 months.
03:34<V453000>ok one per 3 months
03:34<V453000>even easier
03:34<andythenorth>it’s ‘supposed’ to be done with transfer stations and trucks or helis
03:34<liq3>I'm playing a server where I can't afford a fast locomotive for a 84 cargo train.
03:35<V453000>yes, you can do transfer "storage" or deliver it straight from the machine shop
03:35<V453000>well then you are playing on a bad server :) that has nothing to do with firs
03:35<V453000>or openttd features
03:35<liq3>shrug. I barely understand why OpenTTD even has money.
03:35<V453000>valid point
03:35<V453000>still, if RVs or something are an option, then transfer -> RV is probably a thing
03:35<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE
03:36<andythenorth>but the stockpiling thing, ugh
03:36<andythenorth>1 ship, every 2 years
03:36<liq3>It'd be a work around due to OpenTTD's lacking a "unload 84 supplies" feature.
03:36<andythenorth>I don’t even know how to timetable that
03:36<andythenorth>wait at station for 400 days :P
03:36<V453000>it would not liq3
03:36<liq3>? I mean using a station as storage.
03:36<V453000>just solve the situation, that is the openttd feature
03:36<V453000>having the game do it for you is not
03:37<liq3>I've already solved it...?
03:37<V453000>well then dont complain there is a missing feature :)
03:37<liq3>you have a truck/train move about 5 tiles every 3 months.
03:37<liq3>bleh. :P
03:38<andythenorth>V453000: what is so ugh about stockpiles?
03:38<andythenorth>I get asked for it often
03:38<andythenorth>but something is all wrong about it
03:38<V453000>having to deliver in intervals is about the most interesting thing on firs
03:38<V453000>you have to care, not just dump
03:38<andythenorth>stockpiling isn’t transport
03:39<V453000>basically yes
03:39<andythenorth>game is a transport game
03:39<V453000>yeti doesnt care how much you dump (yet)
03:39<V453000>but higher amount of cargo will be less efficient
03:39<andythenorth>the amounts are irrelevant imho
03:39<andythenorth>it’s just a flag that ‘vehicle carrying x’ has visited a nearby station
03:40<V453000>they arent, if you make some non-linear mechanism in the sense that the more you dump, the less efficient it is, you are motivated to dump to multiple spots
03:41<andythenorth>supplies should just have been electricity
03:41<andythenorth>and be done with it
03:41<andythenorth>but that isn’t possible
03:42<V453000>how would that change the way they work? XD
03:42<andythenorth>check nearby power station
03:42<V453000>PS in NUTS they are batteries :P as close as it can get to electricity
03:42<liq3>lol
03:42<andythenorth>if electricity within 32 tiles, produce more
03:42<V453000>well check nearby power station, but how often, by what amount, ... that would be the same
03:43<andythenorth>can dump as much as you like into the power station
03:43<andythenorth>none of this pissing about routing individual trucks to individual farms
03:43<V453000>that would mean 1 unit of electricity is enough, that isnt very nice :P
03:43<V453000>you could make farms one big farm, same output
03:43<V453000>also delivering to one industry
03:45<andythenorth>electric farms
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03:56<Supercheese>toyland has battery farms
03:57<@planetmaker>moin
03:57<Pikka>moin
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04:01<V453000>ok I clearly pulled the repository wrongly :D there is some -1 revision ... how do I get rid of that?
04:01<V453000>apart from it, the local directory seems to be empty
04:01<V453000>yet there are the 150 other commits visible in hg
04:01<V453000>hi pm :)
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04:02<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/hgwtf01.png
04:02<V453000>what do?
04:04<V453000>hm apparently it didnt really pull
04:04<V453000>but why does it write the commits in the list ._.
04:05<@planetmaker>V453000, you cloned. But you didn't update. Just update to the rev you need
04:05<@planetmaker>-1 is the "1st" revision when there is not yet anything in a newly created repo
04:06<V453000>I just removed/forget the old repository and tried to pull a new one
04:06<V453000>uhm how does one update? :)
04:06<@planetmaker>hg update
04:06<@planetmaker>don't ask me about the button in thg :)
04:07<V453000>:d
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04:07<V453000>hm
04:07<V453000>guess I should remove it again and try one mroe time
04:07<@planetmaker>you could probably simply try to get the context menu for rev 150
04:07<@planetmaker>don't
04:07<V453000>did update, updated 0, 0, 0, ...
04:08<@planetmaker>eh?
04:08<V453000>I just broke it again apparently by commiting the first -1
04:08<@planetmaker>you didn't exactly break it. But that might get tricky to get sensibly merged
04:09<@planetmaker>hg rollback
04:09<@planetmaker>hg up -r150
04:09<V453000>unknown revision 150 :D
04:10<@planetmaker>eh?
04:10<V453000>lets just remove everything and do it again
04:10<@planetmaker>well. You will then loose the changes you made the rev -1
04:10<V453000>there are none
04:10<@planetmaker>there are
04:10<V453000>I got sprites backed up so that should be fine :)
04:11<V453000>ok, so got a clean repository, 1. pull changes, 2. update?
04:12<@planetmaker>of course
04:12<@planetmaker>err. no
04:12<@planetmaker>*clone* the repository
04:12<@planetmaker>not create new
04:12<V453000>I removed it, there is nothing to clone
04:12<@planetmaker>of course there is
04:12<V453000>or, like clone from hg@hg.oo
04:12<@planetmaker>you can only clone a remote repository
04:12<@planetmaker>yes, that
04:12<V453000>aha
04:13<@planetmaker>(of course you can also clone local repos)
04:14<V453000>hg@hg.openttdcoop.org\yeti this right
04:14<@planetmaker> /
04:14<V453000>:D
04:14<@planetmaker>bloody windoze user ;)
04:14<V453000>neither works :D
04:14<@planetmaker>ssh://hg@hg.openttdcoop.org/yeti
04:14<V453000>aha
04:15<V453000>itz running :)
04:15<@planetmaker>alternatively you can clone via https://hg.openttdcoop.org/yeti
04:15<V453000>I hope it doesnt mean ruining
04:15<@planetmaker>you only ruin bandwidth :P
04:15<V453000>XD
04:15<V453000>fine, lets see what will it do now
04:15<V453000>do I need to do anything after the cloning?
04:17<@planetmaker>if you cloned via ssh://... you should automatically push to the right place. Check that you have checked-out the newest rev, tip. Which probably is r150
04:17<V453000>ok :)
04:17<V453000>thanks so much
04:17<@planetmaker>no worries
04:18<V453000>hm this will probably take a while :>
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04:35<@peter1138>hmm, so zbase
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04:42<@peter1138>hmm, and biggui :p
04:42<Pikka>hmmso.
04:47<@Rubidium>peter1138: for zbase I could imagine moving the 32bpp double size sprites to x2
04:47<@planetmaker>peter1138, don't worry about zBase providing too big sprites... Just assume that everything a (new)grf currently provides is 1x sprites for GUI
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04:47<@planetmaker>same with ogfx+biggui
04:48<@planetmaker>breaking those with a zoom-able GUI setting is fine. It's their fault
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04:48<@planetmaker>especially as it's not exactly broken. Just fuggly big
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04:55<V453000>ok my SSD is clearly beyond the point of beoken and is unable to copy this amount of data on it without shutting itself down and causing system crash
04:56<V453000>is it possible to make the repository on a different disk? :D
04:56<V453000>and question B, what do I need before migrating to a different machine? just my private key?
04:59<@planetmaker>you want to keep both your keys, private and public
04:59<@planetmaker>you make a repo on any storage medium where you can write on...
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05:00<V453000>ok :)
05:01<@planetmaker>well. and read, too. Those permissions are not necessarily linked :D
05:01<V453000>XD
05:01<V453000>k
05:02<V453000>ok trying to clone to D now :D
05:02<V453000>will have to get a new SSD this week regardless
05:02<V453000>this is just bad
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05:02<@planetmaker>is it just missing enough free space?
05:03<supermop>i've got too much free space down here
05:04<V453000>nope
05:04<V453000>it is some issue in the SSD
05:04<V453000>once it gets used (too much), it shuts itself down, probably requests too much power from the source or something
05:07<@planetmaker>then you need a bigger power supply
05:07<@planetmaker>you could measure the voltage on the input. But... then other things likely would go haywire on your machine concurrently, too
05:07<@peter1138>errr
05:08<@peter1138>V453000, checked for firmware updates for it?
05:08<@peter1138>SSD will not draw too much power
05:08<@peter1138>they draw sod all compared to a regular HDD
05:08<@planetmaker>true :)
05:10<V453000>the source is 750W
05:11<V453000>that has to be enuf
05:11<andythenorth>does the PC shut down, or the drive?
05:11<V453000>the drive, resulting in BSOD
05:11<V453000>firmware should be latest
05:11<andythenorth>I had a run of macs with bad SATA cables
05:11<V453000>IT semi-humans said get rid of it, buy new
05:12<andythenorth>bad SATA cable can cause random bad
05:12<@peter1138>Also check SATA drivers too.
05:12<andythenorth>you probably don’t have a teeny tiny SATA ribbon :P
05:12<V453000>I will just go backup the data that matters now :P
05:12<@peter1138>Mind would bluescreen until I found some different version...
05:18<andythenorth>bye
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05:19<@peter1138>-d+e
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05:36<@peter1138>Weird, this audio CD had 18 tracks last month. This month it has 19, one of which is a data track... o_O
05:37<@Rubidium>did you uninstall the sony drm-thingy?
05:38<@Rubidium>a.k.a. Sony rootkit
05:39<@peter1138>I don't think that runs on Linux.
05:46<Eddi|zuHause>man, i can't press tux+o to find out what track the radio is playing, because it's not amarok :p
05:46<@peter1138>There was a very crap quality .mov file on there.
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose that falls into the same category as pressing "X" on an openttd screenshot
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06:28<@peter1138>hmm
06:28<@peter1138>Canadian Platforms... did they get sabotaged?
06:28<@peter1138>The colours are all messed up.
06:29<__ln__>somebody spilled maple syrup
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06:32<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/stationhuh.png
06:33<@planetmaker>did you try to flip the palette?
06:33<@peter1138>Yes of course.
06:33<@peter1138>But... the pixels are double size and totally random colours.
06:33<V453000>nice
06:33<@planetmaker>he
06:38<@peter1138>Ah well, I can't play with that, and I guess that's the intention. Silly.
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06:40<Wolf01>hi o/
06:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26996 trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp (2014-10-12 10:48:18 UTC)
06:48<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Don't clamp airport construction window size -- this causes very poor performance if the game window is not large enough.
06:48<@peter1138>double/quad ui + airport no longer = death
06:49<@peter1138>probably the same fix applies to all over automatically resizing windows, but... they're unlikely
06:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26997 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-12 10:49:29 UTC)
06:49<@DorpsGek>-Fix/codechange: use signed integers for TGP's internal map size and X/Y variables due to X/Y in comparisons occasionally getting smaller than 0 due to subtractions
06:54<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> Canadian Platforms... did they get sabotaged? <-- there were complaints in the forum
06:55<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26998 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-12 10:55:49 UTC)
06:55<@DorpsGek>-Change: account for the map size when determining the maximum height of the landscape; a 24 high mountain at 64x64 leaves barely any usable space, but on a 4096x4096 it's just a "small" bump (ic111)
06:56<@peter1138>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=71291
06:58<@peter1138>Heee, yeah, they all have the same grf ID.
06:59<@peter1138>oh no they don't, i just can't read
06:59-!-Pikkaphone [~yaaic@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
07:00<Pikkaphone>and did those teeth
07:00<Pikkaphone>in ancient times
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07:02<Eddi|zuHause>"are you my mummy?"
07:04<@peter1138>No.
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>do we have any terms of service against actively sabotaging content?
07:07<V453000>that was expectable from OzTrans :)
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07:15<Pikkaphone>ToS against sabotaging content?
07:16<argoneus>good morning train friends
07:16<Pikkaphone>how would you enforce that? :P "quitting is a sackable offense"?
07:17<V453000>sabotaging content is something different from quitting :)
07:18<Pikkaphone>well, he made his content undownloadable, did he? at least it's neat and tidy
07:18<@peter1138>Pikkaphone, not quite: http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/stationhuh.png
07:18<V453000>well apparently it is downloadable and broken
07:18<V453000>and I dont think it is possible to make it undownloadable, e.g. savegames with the graphics should be able to request them
07:19<Pikkaphone>yes
07:19<Pikkaphone>but are there any save games with those versions?
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>yes, as you can easily see in the forums
07:21<Pikkaphone>perhaps they should be removed then :)
07:21<V453000>possible to remove just the last versions?
07:21<Pikkaphone>why not remove the whole lot?
07:22<V453000>the savegames would be broken and people would again be complaining that they dont have a place to download them
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>well, that's the question: if we have a (legal) tool to terminate his account for sabotaging, we can restore the previous state (i.e. still offer the valid versions), otherwise we can at most disable everything
07:23<Pikkaphone>they can get the grfs the same place they got the save
07:23<Pikkaphone>if they can't, they're not missing much anyway
07:23<@Rubidium>IMO we could terminate the account and make the last versions inaccessible from the website but keep the rest accessible if explicitly asked for
07:24<@planetmaker>+1 ^
07:24<V453000>makes total sense
07:24<@peter1138>Meh, I don't care, just amused that he went to the effort of fucking them up instead of just dropping everything :)
07:24<Pikkaphone>:)
07:24<@planetmaker>peter1138, it's more a question to reduce pointless support requests
07:25<V453000>Pikkaphone: save isnt obtained from bananas :P
07:25<Pikkaphone>if you start "restoring" old versions you're just asking for the next round of drama imo. But whatever.
07:26<V453000>but what drama
07:26<Pikkaphone>v : exactly. If someone sends them a save, the person who sent it presumably also has the grfs
07:26<@Rubidium>but then: I'm an evil dictator that didn't bother being a dictator on the GRFID matter, which makes me even more evil
07:26<V453000>not necessarily Pikkaphone the save could be on a website which does not provide those files, since it assumes that bananas goesnt go bonkers
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>i can't even find the bananas terms of service
07:27<@peter1138>V453000, probably the old files are still there, in which case that'll work.
07:27<@Rubidium>Pikkaphone: I'm definitely not talking about restoring the old ones (they aren't gone, just not visible). I would just suggest making the new "broken" ones not visible as well
07:27<V453000>true
07:27<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: google can
07:27<Flygon>Because I'm a fool and completely out of the loop. And at the risk of flaring up drama.
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07:27<Flygon>What the heck happened? O_o
07:27<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: http://bananas.openttd.org/en/manager/tos/
07:28<V453000>Flygon: OzTrans made his depart a bit colourful and sabotaged his own newGRFs with new broken versions, is all
07:28<V453000>nothing unexpected from (ex)Simuscape
07:28<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26999 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-12 11:28:45 UTC)
07:28<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: make the variety distribution automatically scale to the maximum height of the map
07:28<Pikkaphone>he's been sabotaging his grfs for years, but this time it was deliberate :)
07:29<V453000>XD
07:29<supermop>best just to remove/hide all, or leave as is
07:29<Flygon>More to the point: What prompted the "fark you, it's cancelled" style /quit?
07:29<Pikkaphone>opengfx airports and iron horse
07:29<V453000>Flygon: his own idiocy, someone dared create a newGRF that would have grfID starting with the same two letters XD
07:29<@planetmaker><Pikkaphone> if you start "restoring" old versions you're just asking for the next round of drama imo. But whatever. <-- exactly. Just disable current broken and leave it at that.
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: a giant ego finally going supernova.
07:30<Flygon>Eddi: Okay, that ties in well with the reference I made
07:30<Flygon>V453000: Gotcha
07:30<Flygon>Arf
07:30<supermop>afterall one could claim that a psychedelic color version was intensional and then proactive reverting by bananas could be (legally?) questionable
07:30<@Terkhen>I find it unbelievable that this kind of stuff is still happening
07:30<Flygon>I'll never understand egotists @_@
07:30<@Terkhen>one would think that people would get tired of the drama after... what, 5, 6 years?
07:30<Flygon>Terkhen, it's simple
07:31<Flygon>When someone get's involved in something
07:31<@planetmaker>drama queens just live for drama :)
07:31<Flygon>They grow emotionally attached
07:31<Flygon>Cue... well
07:31<supermop>but if he said he "no longer makes his work available" or whatever, you could take that as cover to delet or hide from bananas
07:31<Flygon>Literal insanity and obsession
07:31<Flygon>I've been on the sending end of it, trust me
07:31<Flygon>>_<
07:31<Flygon>As in, being too emotionally attached to something
07:31<@Rubidium>supermop: the terms of service ask for the upload to grant OpenTTD the rights to distribute it, OpenTTD does not promise anything w.r.t. it being actually distributed
07:31<V453000>Flygon: I require serious amout of respect for what I have been doing around OpenTTD, but that does not mean I demand others to fix what isnt broken and all the stupid shit he did
07:32<V453000>it isnt just about doing things a lot, it is about being a twat
07:32<V453000>simple as that
07:32<Flygon>I know
07:32<@Terkhen>I've worked and work in a fair amount of projects and I've never felt the need to engage in drama like this... V just expressed it better than I could :P
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>so... the terms of service only give you permission to openly distribute the "newest" version, so reverting to the older ones is probably out of the question
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>you can still choose to not distribute that "newest" version, anyway.
07:32<supermop>ooh, so then openttd does have the right to distribute *any* verson that has been uploaded? i recall this being an issue with someone else 2-3 years ago
07:32<V453000>Terkhen: <3
07:33<@planetmaker>supermop, yes. Under some conditions
07:33<Pikkaphone>probably not someone else
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>yes, *any* version for the purpose of loading old savegames, *newest* version everywhere else
07:33<Pikkaphone>probably still oztrans
07:33<V453000>XD Pikkaphone wins
07:33<supermop>no, was the other artist
07:33<Flygon>Terkhen: Me being emotionally attached to something far too strongly has lead to me quitting from things that, in hindsight, were at least 40% caused by my own self-obsession.
07:33<supermop>im sure also with oz, but not at a time i saw
07:33<Pikkaphone>there's another artist?
07:33<@peter1138>SAC? Her wobbly predates bananas I think.
07:34<supermop>sac indeed
07:34<Flygon>I still say staff corruption and egotism from other staff was the other 60% :U
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: points 3 and 4 of ToS may miss a few words?
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>"You grant the OpenTTD team [the rights] to"
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07:36<Pikkaphone>the earlier versions won't work with non-ancient versions of openttd anyway
07:36<supermop>wont hiding the work completely be best for all involved?
07:36<Pikkaphone>of oztrans' grfs that is
07:36<@planetmaker>we probably should revise the TOS and remove the word "latest" from clause 3.
07:37<Pikkaphone>so removing just the latest will effectively hide them completely
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07:37<V453000>I think hiding it all, and make it available only upon request by savegame is best.
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07:37<@planetmaker>and "the last version of" from clause 2
07:37<supermop>V453000: yeah
07:37<@planetmaker>of course that doesn't change the past
07:39<supermop>ive played ottd for 6 years without those grfs, i think we can live without them
07:40<Pikkaphone>especially with new nars. but I didn't say that.
07:40<supermop>and i am sure diehard users out there can dig up an old version on their hdd if they really need to keep working on a 10 year old save
07:40<@planetmaker>no-one even heard or read that
07:40<Pikkaphone>the stations might have been nice for the people who like that sorry of thing
07:41<supermop>freudian slip?
07:41<Pikkaphone>telephone keyboard slip
07:41<Pikkaphone>swype / auto correct :)
07:43<supermop>surprised at how much more CA content is out there vis a vis down here... ive only been down here 10 months and i am constantly overwhelmed with things that seem like they'd be cute at TT's scale
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>that sentence did not parse...
07:44<Pikkaphone>get drawing, then :)
07:44<supermop>no it did not
07:44<supermop>i have been,
07:44<@planetmaker>Pikka, obviously meant to say "auto wrong" instead of "auto correct" ;)
07:44<supermop>but for money, and in autocad,
07:44<Pikkaphone>prosciutto planetmaker
07:44<supermop>and houses not trains
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>a propos prosciutto...
07:45<supermop>yum
07:46<V453000>just get them through max supermop and you have a town set :P
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>(cue the "english only...")
07:47<supermop>well an old version of rhino is what i have on this computer, but that may do
07:47<supermop>i was thinking of trying revit,, but i don't know how to get a planar rather than perspective projection
07:48<@peter1138>orthogonal
07:48<@peter1138>Hmm
07:49<Pikkaphone>that's fine, we need more house sets too :)
07:50<Pikkaphone>what trains did you think were cute, though?
07:50<supermop>melborne terrace set perhaps if i can spin it into a bit of an arch. history thesis while im at it
07:51<supermop>i like the new PTV triangle livery, on the trams and EMUs here,
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07:51<supermop>and on the bombardier DMUs
07:51<@peter1138>Pikkaphone, baseset ;)
07:51<Pikkaphone>mmmm baseset
07:52<supermop>also cute: how absurdly close together some of the train stations are on the line by me
07:53<Pikkaphone>32bpp it
07:53<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27000 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-12 11:53:13 UTC)
07:53<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26999): compilation error with some versions of GCC
07:53<Pikkaphone>be the first to make a full realisms ez set :)
07:53<supermop>haha
07:54<supermop>or just 32bpp of various shades of beige plaster cottages
07:54<Pikkaphone>yep
07:55<Pikkaphone>well, my 32bpp houses are likely to be somewhat Brisbaney
07:56<supermop>i was thinking some queenslanders would be needed to break up the monotony
07:56<supermop>also was up there last week and blown away by some great modern and brutalist stuff
07:57<supermop>that big arts complex on south side of the river has been days of ideal instagram fodder
07:57<Pikkaphone>nobody likes the brutalist stuff, sadly. We do have quite a lot.
07:57<supermop>its just now getting a bit of love in some places
07:58<supermop>but i think its still a niche passion
07:58<supermop>EZ brutalist town set maybe not a big seller...
07:58<Pikkaphone>I forget the name of the architect of qpac/cultural center. He died just earlier this year.
07:58<LordAro>such r27k
07:58<Pikkaphone>doesn't have to be all brutalist :p
07:59<V453000>I will have to think of something suitably unpopular when I start to think about buildings, to keep up the spirit on forums
07:59<supermop>there was a good show on at the library there about brisban mid century architecture too
07:59<Pikkaphone>one of the fun things about a house set is seeing the styles change over the years
07:59<@planetmaker>:) yup
07:59<Pikkaphone>yeah, there was :)
08:01<supermop>melboune unfortunately seems to missed most of that compared to brisbane and sydney - i get the feeling in my neighborhood at times that time froze between 1880 and 2006
08:02<supermop>i guess with a town set, if a town grows fast in one era, and then not again until several eras later, you can get that effect to an extent
08:03<@peter1138>Dunno, towns do seem to just randomly replace buildings for no reason.
08:04<supermop>maybe a task for GS writers to approximate the planning failures and triumphs of a town over the decades then
08:05<supermop>and just try to include an even distribution of houses over the years regardless
08:05<@peter1138>planetmaker, how much work will it be to merge BigGUI into opengfx? :D
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08:06<@planetmaker>peter1138, not much
08:06<@planetmaker>an evening maybe
08:06<Pikkaphone>Peter: I don't just rely on default town behavior. ;) not in tai, even less in the future.
08:07<Pikkaphone>you can do reasonably complex things with building placement
08:07<Pikkaphone>funny, supermop
08:07<Flygon>supermop: 17 minutes late here, but I prefer V/Line Red-Yellow-Purple over PTV Purple-Yellow Fractals on the VLos D:
08:08<Pikkaphone>most of the plebs around here think Melbourne is the center of styled and sophistication
08:08<Pikkaphone>and Brisbane is dull and ugly
08:08<Flygon>Sophistication?
08:08<Flygon>But we're the home of the Bogan!
08:08<Flygon>And Calder Park Raceway!
08:09<Flygon>And FRANKSTON!
08:09<Flygon>And Melton, and Werribee too!
08:09<Pikkaphone>exactly :D
08:09<supermop>Pikkaphone: its a neat town to be sure, and there are some stylish places -
08:09<Flygon>And dammit
08:09<Flygon>I'm bloody proud of it
08:09<Flygon>B3
08:09<Pikkaphone>lol
08:09<supermop>dont get me wrong i am happy to be here
08:09<Flygon>Former Meltoner. Survived Melton. Aw yis. B3
08:09<Flygon>btw, Meltoners hate Sunshine!
08:10<Flygon>It's like, the one place worse than Melton that's not Frankston D:
08:10<supermop>but brisbane seems like a real undervalued gem to me, especially in terms of architecture
08:10<frosch123>anyone understands fs#6139?
08:10<frosch123>i do not recall peter1138 committing the stuff
08:10<Flygon>supermop: During my visit to Brisbane a few years ago
08:10<Flygon>It was a quite a nice place
08:10<Flygon>But the public transport is way overpriced
08:11<@planetmaker>I don't recall that either
08:11<@planetmaker>no clue what FS6139 refers to
08:12<+michi_cc>@commit 26990
08:12<@DorpsGek>michi_cc: Commit by peter1138 :: r26990 /trunk/src (11 files in 4 dirs) (2014-10-11 13:22:37 UTC)
08:12<@DorpsGek>michi_cc: -Feature: Add option to choose normal, double or quad-size interface.
08:13<frosch123>oh, peter added a new setting to game options :p
08:13<frosch123>that's not somewhere i would look
08:14<@planetmaker>game *options*? Hm.
08:15<@planetmaker>rather settings :)
08:15<Pikkaphone>advanced game setting options!
08:15<@planetmaker>Pikka, there's no 'advanced' settings anymore :P
08:15<+michi_cc>frosch123: It makes sens to have it where the resolution selection is.
08:15<Pikkaphone>I know
08:15<frosch123>well, another item on the list of settigns to remove from game options, and moving to settings
08:15<@peter1138>*shrug* that was mostly michi_cc's patch ;p
08:15<@peter1138>but yes, what michi_cc said
08:15<@planetmaker>mostly options should go to settings :P
08:16<@planetmaker>as they're basically the same thing. Just different
08:16<frosch123>yup, i just did not expected anything getting added there
08:16<frosch123>so, when i checked for a new setting, i looked into "settings"
08:16<Pikkaphone>took me a little while to find it :)
08:16<frosch123>i would never have notices something new in "game options" :p
08:17<@peter1138>Anyway, most dropdowns contain text, which isn't scaled.
08:17<@peter1138>Some dropdowns have images which are scaled
08:17<@peter1138>And some dropdowns have checkmarks which are part of the text, thus not scaled.
08:17<@planetmaker>right. So (New)GRFs support that via the normal 1x / 2x / 4x alternative sprites?
08:18<@peter1138>hmm?
08:18<@peter1138>Sure, anything which is not text can have hires sprites.
08:19<Pikkaphone>peter: any ideas why the nightly is complaining about the base set being incomplete? Is it this, or something older?
08:19<@peter1138>Well, maybe not the palettes and landscape sprites either :p
08:19<@peter1138>Pikkaphone, opengfx?
08:19<Pikkaphone>zbase
08:19<@peter1138>(or zbase)
08:19<@planetmaker>missing recolour sprite, Pikka
08:19<@peter1138>yeah it's missing a sprite :)_
08:20<frosch123>Pikkaphone: check the map border :)
08:20<frosch123>if it looks awesome, you are missing a sprite. if it looks boring normal, your baseset is complete
08:20<Pikkaphone>lol k, I'll check :p is someone updating zbase?
08:21<frosch123>otoh, if you are using 32bpp, then the missing sprite isn't used anyway
08:21<@planetmaker>he
08:21<@planetmaker>Pikka, it *should* get updated. But no-one did yet
08:21<Pikkaphone>or should I hold out for vbase? yetibase?
08:21<frosch123>i wonder whether we should just generally remove it again
08:21<@peter1138>Yeah, technically it could be removed again :p
08:21<@planetmaker>:D
08:22<@peter1138>pikkabase
08:22<Pikkaphone>pineapple base
08:22<Pikkaphone>piebase
08:22<supermop>does australia have any laws about walking around photographing peoples houses?
08:22<@planetmaker>peebase :P
08:22<@planetmaker>but that name might not be ideal ;)
08:22<@peter1138>supermop, google should know.
08:23<@peter1138>Hmm, I suppose I could change that dropdown thing to be a sprite.
08:23<supermop>well i've been doing thatt already, at least this way i can plausibly claim ignorance
08:24<@peter1138>The check mark separate anyway.
08:26<@peter1138>latin.txt:STR_CHEATS_TOOLTIP :{BLACK}Signum {CHECKMARK} indicat trica iam a te usa est
08:26<@peter1138>Supercheese WHY?
08:27<@peter1138>Ok, sprite 142 is buggy :S
08:32<frosch123>the checkmark is fixed via openttd.grf
08:32<@peter1138>Hmm...
08:33<frosch123>oh, latin uses {CHECKMARK)? :p
08:33<frosch123>BAD FEATURE
08:34<Pikkaphone>featurum malum
08:34<@planetmaker>addendum malum
08:34<@peter1138>Yes. It won't once I've removed it...
08:36<Pikkaphone>such Hamilton
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08:42<@peter1138>Hmm, need to change that action 12 to a simple sprite replacement.
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08:50<@planetmaker>hm, how do I know which gidNumber to assign to a new translation?
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08:52<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/checkmark.diff :S
08:52<@peter1138>Not really sure about the fix_graphics.nfo change.
08:53<@peter1138>Wonder if it should be removed from there and put into openttd base instead.
08:54<@peter1138>On the other hand, doing it this way means other basesets don't need changing.
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>what does action12 do?
08:54<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, sprite font stuff.
08:54<@peter1138>Sets the checkmark to a unicode point.
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>and why exactly is that problematic?
08:55<@peter1138>Because I need it as a regular sprite again :p
08:55<@peter1138>(font sprites are not scaled, it looks terrible overall)
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>what's special about font sprites?
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>font sprite scaling may be useful
08:58<Pikka>non-sprite fonts don't scale
08:58<Pikka>so why should the sprite fonts?
08:58<@planetmaker>non-sprite fonts are the size you set them. Thus scale as you like
08:58<Pikka>yes
08:58<@planetmaker>sprite fonts have no such option
08:58<Eddi|zuHause>well, non-sprite-font scaling can be done by just doubling the size
08:58<Pikka>they have the "use a better font" option :P
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>if i set gui to double size, i expect fonts to double as well
08:59<Pikka>you don't expect the font to be the size you set it in the config?
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>no, i expect there to be a font configurator gui
09:00<Pikka>controversial
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i see no problem with the cfg
09:03<@peter1138>Hmm, well...
09:03<@peter1138>TaI still looks good.
09:04<Pikka>TaI is 3/4 bits of the original TTD graphics :P
09:04<@peter1138>exactly :p
09:05<Pikka>it makes nicer town layouts than other house sets though, and I want to take some of the concepts in it further
09:05<Pikka>with more / nicer / more original sprites and 32bppez :P
09:05<b_jonas>which house set?
09:05<b_jonas>I want a good house set
09:05<Pikka>there aren't any
09:05<b_jonas>aww
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09:07<frosch123>peter1138: yes, only some versions of the original graphics are affected by the bug; changing fix_graphics.nfo is fine
09:07<frosch123>the only thing broken will be the "fix ttd grf bugs" newgrf
09:07<frosch123>but noone knows why that exists anyway since it is included in openttd.grf
09:08<@Rubidium>s/it/a more complete version/
09:29<@peter1138>Hmm...
09:31<@peter1138>Now I need to know what zoom level to draw text at...
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10:02<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, bah, too hard ;(
10:17<@peter1138>Alright, where are string widths cached?
10:18<@Rubidium>gfx.cpp
10:20<@peter1138>Don't think so, I'm already updating that.
10:20<@Rubidium>gfx_layout.cpp?
10:21<@peter1138> 28 Layouter::LineCache *Layouter::linecache;
10:21<@peter1138>hmm
10:22<@Rubidium>I guess ResetFontCache does the trick
10:22<@peter1138>yes, if I can figure out how to call it :S
10:23<@peter1138>168 static inline void ClearFontCache()
10:23<@peter1138>i hope
10:23<@Rubidium>sounds like it, for a sprite font at least
10:23<@peter1138>That handles all.
10:24<@peter1138>But yes, handling freetype fonts is... not right now :P
10:25<@Rubidium>although ClearFontCache for FreeTypeFontCache does call ResetFontCache as well
10:26<@peter1138>No reason why it wouldn't, it's still used.
10:27<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/double9.png
10:27<@peter1138>:S
10:27<@peter1138>Actually not that bad
10:28<@peter1138>But using a freetype font just crashes everything :p
10:28<@peter1138>Let's just remove that feature.
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11:04<Jinassi>nabend, maker of the planet, would you mind logging on Desura to see why Mac client was not accepted? pretty please :)
11:05<Jinassi>(if any message was given)
11:07<@planetmaker>highlights work better with full nickname :P
11:07<Jinassi>oh snap, note taken
11:07<@planetmaker>but what do I see what you don't, Jinassi ?
11:08<Jinassi>I was hoping dev team would have any message regarding mac client, newest one i uploaded got deleted
11:10<@planetmaker>Jinassi, I've never used desura's interface for anything.
11:11<@peter1138>Coo, I found a minor bug :D
11:11<Jinassi>np, just curious if there was any info, thank you for the effort
11:11<@peter1138>Kinda anyway
11:12<@planetmaker>maybe Terkhen knows more?
11:13<Jinassi>rgr, on it.
11:17<@Terkhen>Jinassi: Desura usually refused to accept Mac/Linux games that weren't created on Linux
11:17<@Terkhen>it complained about file permissions, that Windows does not set
11:17<@Terkhen>I don't know if that applies to your problem or not
11:17<Jinassi>prolly fucked up when i made mcf
11:17<Jinassi>tnx
11:18<@Terkhen>I don't seem to be able to check the MCF you uploaded, sorry
11:18<Jinassi>yep, gone, deleted
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11:18<@Terkhen>ah, okay
11:18<Jinassi>thanky you, now i don't need to continue writing lenghty message about it :P
11:18<@Terkhen>now I vaguely remember not being able to upload mac binaries for some reason
11:18<@Terkhen>hmmm...
11:19<@Terkhen>I don't see any uploaded for the previous version either
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11:26<@peter1138>Du, du hast, du hast mich
11:26<V453000>NO.
11:26<@peter1138>:(
11:27<@planetmaker>doch doch!
11:29<@peter1138>I want cliffs :(
11:29<@planetmaker>V453000, I suggest you read my reply in the 'how to get old newgrfs' thread again, too
11:30<@planetmaker>your first reply is wrong. Your 2nd not productive in that thread
11:30<V453000>if you have a save you can always get the right version?
11:30<@planetmaker>yes
11:30<V453000>that is what first is saying
11:31<V453000>second isnt meant to be productive just make him realize that he doesnt need it :D
11:31<@planetmaker>you say that you only get it, if you remove the last one. That's by no means a requirement
11:32<V453000>well sure but cleanest
11:32<@planetmaker>granted, by default only the latest is shown
11:32<V453000>esp if the latest is borkd as shit
11:32<@planetmaker>when selecting newgrfs for new maps
11:32<V453000>yes and that
11:37<@peter1138>Sup
11:38<V453000>nuffyn
11:39<@peter1138>ok so
11:39<@peter1138>How to fix this fscking freetype renderer... scaling would be silly :D
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12:20<andythenorth>o/
12:21<@planetmaker>\o
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12:21<V453000>o/
12:23<andythenorth>where is cat?
12:23<@planetmaker>under the couch
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>you don't look for cats. cats look for you.
12:26<@planetmaker>indeed. I visited yesterday a friend. And... indeed the cats were watching me. Quite skeptically :P
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12:29<V453000>yetis watch you too you just arent aware
12:29<@planetmaker>yup
12:33<@planetmaker>hm... from ogfx+biggui source:
12:33<@planetmaker>/ Looks better centred, but not yet implemented for testing purposes for peter1138
12:33<@planetmaker>/ replace( 130, "gfx/biggui.png") { [306, 776, 20, 20, 0, -2, NOCROP] } // up arrow
12:33<@planetmaker>/ replace( 140, "gfx/biggui.png") { [354, 776, 20, 20, 0, -2, NOCROP] } // down arrow
12:33<@planetmaker>:D
12:33<@planetmaker>I wonder what will happen if I uncomment that
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12:43<@peter1138>planetmaker, I'm thinking of reworking all those sprites in openttd.grf too.
12:43<@peter1138>They're just about okay at the moment.
12:43<@peter1138>4x shows it up though.
12:46<@planetmaker>just adding ogfx+biggui's sprite as 2x to OpenGFX. Let's see
12:47<@peter1138>Might have issues if they're not exactly 2x :)
12:47<@planetmaker>they should be. But will see :)
12:47<@planetmaker>should != is :)
12:47<@peter1138>heh
12:47<@planetmaker>dunno. First port, then test
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13:21<@peter1138>Gah, this is looking uglier and uglier :p
13:21<@planetmaker>town list looks double-spaced with 2x gui
13:22<@peter1138>It has that icon next to each item.
13:22<@planetmaker>ha, lol. yes, it hadn't when I started a new game and did not yet do anything
13:23<@peter1138>Huh? It's a grey icon.
13:23<@peter1138>Oh, blank in OpenGFX...
13:23<@planetmaker>:D
13:23<@planetmaker>yeah
13:24<@planetmaker>but that's fair enough, I guess
13:28<liq3>God, I'm understanding why the profit game is no fun in OpenTTD.
13:35<__ln__>@seen God
13:35<@DorpsGek>__ln__: I have not seen God.
13:35<@peter1138> [05] bin/openttd(_ZN22Blitter_32bppOptimized6EncodeEPKN12SpriteLoader6SpriteEPFPvmE+0x150) [0x5addb0]
13:35<@peter1138>;(
13:36<@planetmaker>hm... why do the 2x sprites not show for me?
13:37<@planetmaker>ah...
13:37<@peter1138>Blank or just not the correct ones?
13:40<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/doublefonttoo.diff
13:43<@peter1138>Count the hacks :p
13:45<@peter1138>Excuse town_cmd.cpp :p
13:46<@peter1138>That fixes the station feature icon issue.,
13:47<@peter1138>Hmm
13:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27001 /trunk/src/lang (9 files) (2014-10-12 17:49:12 UTC)
13:49<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:49<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 4 changes by telanus
13:49<@DorpsGek>catalan - 16 changes by juanjo
13:49<@DorpsGek>english_US - 6 changes by Supercheese
13:49<@DorpsGek>french - 5 changes by glx
13:49<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 66 changes by IPG
13:49<@DorpsGek>italian - 5 changes by lorenzodv
13:49<@DorpsGek>korean - 5 changes by telk5093
13:49<@DorpsGek>russian - 5 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:49<@DorpsGek>spanish - 4 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
13:49<@peter1138>That's a lot
13:54<@planetmaker>there. when one actually uses the correct grf, sprites suddenly appear
13:54<@peter1138>ohh
13:55<@planetmaker>failed to compile due to stupid macro error. and used old grf
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14:17<@peter1138>It does work, right? Heh
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14:19<Eddi|zuHause>hm, DorpsGek no longer cuts off long messagese?
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>-e
14:20<@peter1138>Apparently not just then.
14:27<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27002 /trunk/src (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-10-12 18:26:54 UTC)
14:27<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish: replace some non-ASCII characters with ASCII characters, e.g. @?\195?\190aram to @param
14:28<frosch123>hmm, i have þ on altrgr+p as well
14:36<@peter1138>Isn't that standard? þþþ
14:36<frosch123>no idea, what language is it needed for?
14:36<@Rubidium>NewGRF ;)
14:37<frosch123>oh, it is the utf-8 char?
14:38<@Rubidium>yes
14:38<@peter1138>Any idea how to do that hack around Encode() cleanly? :S
14:38<@Rubidium>it's used in Iceland, but was used in old Norse and old English
14:40<@Rubidium>þ became th, but apparantly the þ was to hard to write so there was a simplification to y -> ye olde
14:41<frosch123>peter1138: where does ST_FONT affect Encode?
14:41<frosch123>it seems to disable the palette conversion, which should stay
14:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27003 /trunk/src (21 files in 5 dirs) (2014-10-12 18:41:53 UTC)
14:42<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: fix the use of spaces and asterices "around" some comments
14:42<frosch123>wouldn't you rather want to change the min/max_zoom?
14:43<frosch123>using the interface zoom instead of ZOOM_LVL_NORMAL?
14:43<frosch123>resp. instead of the viewport zoom
15:01<@peter1138>Well
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15:06<Wolf01>'night
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15:07<@peter1138>frosch123, not all blitter encoders have that zoom level stuff.
15:07<@peter1138>Hmm, I suppose I could somehow add it.
15:08<@peter1138>(And then use ZOOM_LVL_NORMAL for all text drawing)
15:10<@planetmaker>peter1138, what I really would like is fractional GUI zoom. My personal preference actually is 1.5x :P
15:11<@peter1138>Sort of possible...
15:11<@peter1138>Needs to be a separate set of sprites though.
15:15<@planetmaker>I have that from opengfx+biggui :P
15:15<@peter1138>Exactly.
15:18<frosch123>planetmaker: get a bigger screen :p
15:18<@planetmaker>or move my chair further away from the screen :P
15:18<@Rubidium>planetmaker: increase you computer's monitor's DPI by about 33%
15:19<@planetmaker>hm, 1200 pixels on ~<30cm
15:22<argoneus>:-)
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15:23<frosch123>planetmaker: technically 3x zoom is easier to do than 1.5x zoom, so with higher dpi you can get finer zoom levels
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15:32<@planetmaker>frosch123, I know :)
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15:40<@planetmaker>peter1138, maybe changing gui size should somehow trigger re-arrangement of windows. At least if they overlap then
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15:43<@peter1138>How often do you anticipate changing size?
15:43<@planetmaker>every 10 minutes currently
15:44<@peter1138>t:)
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16:07<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/doublefonttoo2.diff
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16:07<@peter1138>Another version...
16:08<@peter1138>Not sure what happens to the unencoded sprite memory. It doesn't seem to be freed there so I guess it's safe to just repoint it like that.
16:09<@peter1138>I think this method is better. There's slightly more faff on loading, and it has to reload all the sprites when you change GUI scale.
16:10<@peter1138>But actually drawing text is simpler.
16:10<@peter1138>Or rather, exactly the same as it is now.
16:11<@peter1138>FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL isn't as free as it once was though :S
16:11<@peter1138>s/free/cheap/
16:14<frosch123>peter1138: btw. i am pretty sure you cannot just call GfxLoadSprites
16:14<frosch123>it should reset newgrf stuff and such, so can only be done on the intro menu
16:14<@peter1138>Meh
16:15<frosch123>i think you want to call some other function
16:15<frosch123>something along what CheckBiltter does
16:15<@peter1138>Ok
16:15<frosch123>maybe ZoomMinMaxChanged is similar
16:19<@peter1138>Oh...
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16:19<frosch123>static ReusableBuffer<SpriteLoader::CommonPixel> buffer[ZOOM_LVL_COUNT]; <- that's where your pointers go
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16:20<frosch123>so, yes, copying the pointer should be fine
16:22<@peter1138>Right
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16:24<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/doublefonttoo3.diff
16:25<@peter1138>8/32bpp <train> Trains 2CC
16:25<@peter1138>Hah, that works as well...
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16:32<frosch123>that looks fine :)
16:35<@peter1138>Hehe I better commit before someone else pipes up ;)
16:36<frosch123>what's our strategy for the black palette? should we stop pm from adding it to ogfx and zbase and stuff, and get rid of it again?
16:37<@peter1138>That would probably make sense.
16:38<@peter1138>Hmm, turning on infrastructure maintenance completely wipes out my profit :)
16:38<frosch123>wasn't that the intention?
16:39<@peter1138>Possibly. I've been busy building roads around towns etc...
16:41<frosch123>hmm, last commits to zbasebuild and zbuld are by me... that's scary
16:42<@planetmaker>hm, is there no opengfx update somewhere in zbase?
16:42<@planetmaker>I thought I did that somewhen... I wonder whether I pushed that or ran into some trouble
16:42<frosch123>ogfx already has the black palette
16:42<frosch123>zbase only gets it after updating the ogfx revision in the subrepo
16:43<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27004 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2014-10-12 20:43:25 UTC)
16:43<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Make GUI size apply to (sprite-font) text as well.
16:43<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause ^^
16:43<@planetmaker>yes, I thought I did. I probably forgot to push... though I think I somehow messed up my local repo with some stupid other local modifications. Stupid sub-repos
16:43<@planetmaker>ui, peter1138 :)
16:44<@peter1138>-G
16:44<@peter1138>? I dunno
16:44<@planetmaker>we have no CLI with sprite fonts ;)
16:45<@peter1138>`
16:45<@peter1138>technically CLI :D
16:45<@peter1138>Or ~ if it's that key on your layout.
16:45<@planetmaker>well. if you want to call that cli, yes
16:45<@peter1138>even ls... cd... etc work :D
16:46<@peter1138>Hmm, technically I can undo my closebox changes :o
16:46<frosch123>it has no 'sed' though
16:46<@peter1138>probably can't pipe either
16:47<@peter1138>-Feature: Old people can play OpenTTD again.
16:48<frosch123>sounds like a feature to group 4 neighbouring keys to the same hotkey
16:49<@peter1138>Hmm, I wonder what that old font-selector patch did...
16:49<frosch123>noone had the heart to add another some-platforms-only feature
16:50<@peter1138>:)
16:52<@peter1138>I _guess_ that fixes FS#6139 actually.
16:58<@peter1138>(That double-size small-font is awesome)
17:02<@planetmaker>indeed, the small sprite font is too small for me, too. Always was
17:03<@planetmaker>and we definitely need the font sprites as 2x sprites in the base sets now :D
17:03<@planetmaker>the 1x zoomed are just... not nice
17:03<@planetmaker>or won't that work with 2x sprites for the font sprites?
17:04<@peter1138>It should work.
17:04<@planetmaker>sweet :)
17:05<@peter1138>But you might find you want a 1.5x size font :P
17:06<@planetmaker>I would also prefer that, yes. Except for the small one really
17:06<@planetmaker>but our sprite fonts are quite nice, too. So... no system fonts used here
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17:09<MTsPony>Does anyone know where in the code it is determined how far Grass goes from shore -> land inwards (in tropic climate) thx
17:09<frosch123>genworld.cpp
17:09<frosch123>search for TropicZone or something
17:09<MTsPony>thanks :)
17:09<frosch123>hmm, or landscape.cpp?
17:10<frosch123>one of those two :)
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17:10<MTsPony>kk :)
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17:26<@planetmaker>g'night
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17:54<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: in one of the devzone revamps, the commit email notifications got lost
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18:15<__ln__>is netflix already available in germany?
18:16<NGC3982>"already"?
18:17<__ln__>that's right
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18:17<NGC3982>What's with the holdup
18:17<+glx>it's available in france at least
18:17<NGC3982>It's a year and a half since i installed it
18:18<__ln__>i'm watching a swedish-danish tv series on netflix, and i find it disturbing that all the texts in the titles are in german.
18:20<__ln__>and the german voiceover actors are listed in the end titles, even though i can't even select anything but the original audio track.
18:22<__ln__>NGC3982: it became available in .se/.fi/.dk much earlier than in central europe.
18:22<NGC3982>I see.
18:22<+glx>and they decided to respect the silly french media chronology
18:23<+glx>so no recent movies :)
18:23<__ln__>how recent do you consider recent?
18:23<+glx>less than 3 years old
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18:25<NGC3982>What's the "the silly french media chronology"
18:26<__ln__>okay.. well, most movies here as well are older than 3 years, but there are some newer movies that have appeared even less than a year after their premiere.
18:26<+glx>http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronologie_des_m%C3%A9dias
18:27<+glx>so SVOD must wait 36 months after the film is out
18:30<__ln__>that's sad
18:30<+glx>for tv series it's better but usually tv channels have exclusivity period
18:31<__ln__>fortunately netflix has some of its own exclusive series
18:32<+glx>yes but it's funny because house of cards is not available on netflix in france :)
18:32<+glx>they don't own the rights
18:33<__ln__>errrr... wtfrance
18:34<+glx>canal+ tv channel bought the series before netflix came in france so they own the rignts for france
18:35<__ln__>great
18:36<__ln__>btw, does netflix in france offer both dubbed and original audio for foreign stuff?
18:36<+glx>yes
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18:36<__ln__>good
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>i think netflix started a few weeks ago
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>but i have not heard anything about what kind of content they serve
18:38<__ln__>sounds like you're not a subscriber yet then
18:38<+glx>they started on september 15th here
18:38<+glx>I'm still on the free month
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>probably around the same here
18:40<__ln__>they started something like 18th Oct 2012 here.
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>there are also other streaming services, like one called "maxdome"
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>they offered stuff like TV series 1 week before free-tv airing, for 2€ per episode
18:41<+glx>yeah we have that kind of services too
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>i thought that wasn't worth it, and didn't bother checking again
18:42<+glx>but it's to see series 24h after it's aired in the US
18:42<+glx>(ie a year before it usually comes on our tv)
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18:42<Eddi|zuHause>that would probably be more useful
18:43<+glx>but it's too expensive :)
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>there are some pay-tv channels which do that for certain series
18:43<+glx>yes on cable/sat
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18:49<Eddi|zuHause>"death cannot be tax-deducted as a permanent work-impairing disability"
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19:19<argoneus>good night train friends
19:19<Patrick>lol
19:19<__ln__>are you the Patrick from the past?
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19:33<Patrick>I am from the past... but I dont know if I am the patrick from the past
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 13 00:00:50 2014