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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-13

---Logopened Mon Oct 13 00:00:50 2014
00:11-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd
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00:25<Supercheese>Hmm, Latin still shows as read-only for me in the Webtranslator
00:25<Supercheese>Oh derp
00:25<Supercheese>needed to logoff/logon
00:26<Supercheese>Nevermind
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01:03<supermop>hi
01:22<Pikka>hi
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01:39<Supercheese>lo
01:46-!-Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
01:46<supermop>an airbnb houseguest just put our electric kettle on the stove
01:49<supermop>took a bunch of terrace photos this morning
01:50<supermop>tried to get some of the more gingerbread-y edwardian ones that are outliers but not too uncommon to be in a set
01:51<Eddi|zuHause>ECoherencyWarning
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02:59<@planetmaker>moin
02:59<Pikka>moin
02:59<@planetmaker>Supercheese, so latin in WT3 does work?
02:59<V453000>hy
02:59<Supercheese>Yes
02:59<Supercheese>eints still has some issues
03:00<@planetmaker>yuhu. Seems I didn't destroy the database then
03:00<@planetmaker>what's wrong with eints?
03:06<@peter1138>Supercheese, probably ought not use {CHECKMARK} in that cheat window tooltip, as nothing else does.
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03:08<Supercheese>Aww
03:08<__ln__>i wonder if "N/A" is latin
03:09<Supercheese>"Applicabilis" is in my dictionary
03:09<Supercheese>"Non applicabilis"
03:09<Supercheese>figured it was good enough eh
03:09<__ln__>oh, then it could be.
03:10<Supercheese>checkmark sign removed
03:11<__ln__>"{BLACK}Nomina industriarum - preme in nomen ut center main view on industry."
03:11<Supercheese>aha
03:11<Supercheese>fail copypasta
03:14<Supercheese>fixed
03:14<__ln__>gratias
03:15<Supercheese>eints still doesn't recognize Latin translation access, I think I may need to logoff/logon there too
03:15<Supercheese>but... where is the log out...
03:16<Supercheese>clear cookies I guess
03:18<liq3>V453000: Overflows are very cool. thanks for the tip.
03:19<V453000>you are welcome
03:19<liq3>Also, YETI 0.0.9 relying on town pop is scary. :(
03:20<V453000>why? it felt quite okay to me
03:20<liq3>Oh. Scary in a good way. More challenging. :]
03:20<V453000>the dependence seemed very low in fact
03:20<V453000>aha
03:20<V453000>well the most important news are the other bonuses/mechanics, motivating to use all kinds of industries
03:20<liq3>hehe.
03:20<liq3>yeh.
03:22<liq3>My save was already set up for that, so I just updated YETI in it :D
03:22<liq3>Not starting a new game atm.
03:23<V453000>changing industries can do quite some havoc :D
03:23<V453000>but well if it didnt, that much better
03:23<liq3>Yeh, seems to be working fine. Tho some industries seemed to close magically.
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03:26<Supercheese>Hmm, eints will not let me start new Latin translations - "access denied". New en_US translations work just fine
03:34<Supercheese>seemingly clearing browser cache and cookies did not help
03:47<V453000>thee shall not passeth to Latin
03:48<Supercheese> :<
03:48*V453000 is finally rendering another industry =D
03:49<V453000>last (tm)
03:49<@planetmaker>Supercheese, might be something on the eints VM itself. Will try to look later, but seems I won't have time today... our wiki server is broken. And it's mine to repair
03:49<@planetmaker>work work
03:51<Supercheese>roger
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03:54<V453000>:d render to be done in 6.5 hours
03:57<Supercheese>Well then, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's... ;)
03:57<V453000>wat XD
03:57<Supercheese>Hmm, if you don't know the reference you wouldn't get the (bad) joke
03:57<V453000>guess not :P
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05:04<@Rubidium>how would I calculate the average/mean deviation between the lowest and highest peak in a set of TGP amplitudes?
05:06-!-Jomann [~abchirk@p4FE21B78.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
05:07<@Rubidium>with one amplitude that's just max-of-X-samples - min-of-X-samples, and since the values are (assumed to be) randomly distributed, that'll probably give a max of, on average, 1-(1/X), so in the end something like 1-(2/X), right?
05:08<@Rubidium>but with two amplitudes things get fishy
05:08<@peter1138>Heh, I'm working on a standalone heightmap maker...
05:08<@Rubidium>the first amplitude gets it's value put in half of the places, and then an interpolation is done for the rest, after which the second amplitude is added
05:10<@Rubidium>which makes it a huge pain in the arse, especially when trying to figure out the roughness because I'd have to divide all numbers by this average "height" of the generated heightmap before knowing the actual roughness
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05:20<@Rubidium>ugh... it's kinda the reverse German tank problem for the one amplitude case
05:27<@peter1138>heightmaps are deceiving.
05:30<@Rubidium>why?
05:31<@peter1138>What looks interesting in an image doesn't translate to an interesting map.
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06:08<@planetmaker>Rubidium, you need to get a 2D fourier trafo of the image really to assess the bumpyness
06:09<@planetmaker>one could actually invert that process :D
06:09<@Rubidium>planetmaker: but I'm not working on an image
06:10<@Rubidium>I basically want to get some sort of "statistics" on the average bumpyness given a set of amplitudes and the mess that OpenTTD does with it while generating the heightmap
06:11<@Rubidium>so I can attempt to create a function for generating amplitudes that extend well with higher heights
06:11<@Rubidium>instead of having to fiddle with tens of sets of amplitudes
06:15<@Rubidium>I now kinda get http://rbijker.net/openttd/total_contribution_to_dz.png (as seen from 1x1 "frequency" to 64x64)
06:16<@Rubidium>it's more or less the cumulative distribution function (though in reverse to normal)
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06:18<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/average_contribution_to_dz.png <- the distribution per "frequency"
06:18<@Rubidium>although, where frequency is said in TGP it looks more like wavelength
06:20<@planetmaker>Rubidium our map is nothing different than an image, just the format in memory is different. The byte array for height could be treated as such or transformed into one.
06:20-!-Pikkaphone [~yaaic@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
06:20<@Rubidium>planetmaker: but I can't generate an *average* map
06:20<Pikkaphone>do you want a jellybaby?
06:21<Pikkaphone>what's average anyway?
06:21<@Rubidium>I know that random messes with things a lot, so one map differs a lot from the other map and having to generate thousands of map to run that function and then average seems like a huge amount of work
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06:24<@Rubidium>and with that method, I'd need to run that all over again with a new set of amplitudes to "test"
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06:24<liq3>anyone know what could cause trains to not load cargo at a station?
06:24<@Rubidium>instead of pushing them into a function to see the general behaviour
06:25<Pikkaphone>I have some theories, liq3. hard to tell from here though
06:25<V453000>screenshot or save helps :)
06:25<@Rubidium>liq3: wrong destination, wrong origin, wrong train, wrong orders, wrong ...
06:26-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A5E3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
06:26<Pikkaphone>wrong refit? wrong trousers, grommit?
06:26<liq3>No, they're in the station, with the right cars for the cargo type, the station has cargo, they have the right orders. They load 20-50% cargo and then stop.
06:27<Pikkaphone>wrong orders for the cargo?
06:27<@planetmaker>wrong destination for the cargo
06:27<Pikkaphone>ie it's cargodestined for somewhere else, yes planetmaker
06:27<liq3>wrong destination?
06:27<liq3>....oh it is.
06:28<liq3>why is cargodist even on.
06:28<Pikkaphone>because cargodist is wonderful
06:28<liq3>ty. Turning off cargodist fixed it.
06:28<liq3>or at least i hope it has.
06:29<@planetmaker>cargodist cross-company is fun :)
06:30<@planetmaker>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6114/getfile/9947/cross_company_cargodist.png
06:30<Pikkaphone>industries with built in stations are a bad feature
06:30<@planetmaker>actually I don't think so. It's great
06:31<@planetmaker>it's just missing proper infra sharing :D
06:31<@planetmaker>and probably adjusting income form shared cargo between companies
06:31<@planetmaker>'just' :P
06:40<liq3>V453000: so why does YETI food look it has a radioactive warning on it? :P
06:41<@planetmaker>hm, fftw meanwhile is gpl. good :)
06:41<V453000>where did you see yeti food? :D
06:41<liq3>well, the barrels.
06:41<liq3>on the trains. :D
06:41<@planetmaker>maybe it's uranium and not food?
06:41<liq3>lol.
06:41<V453000>which train are you using?
06:41<liq3>NUTS
06:42<V453000>that is train set not train :P
06:42<V453000>the wagons differ majorly
06:42<liq3>universal rail wagon.
06:42<V453000>ah the rail?
06:42<V453000>......
06:42<V453000>yeah
06:42<V453000>well, it is just a general label on the food can :D
06:42<liq3>Here I thought it might have been intentional the YETIs are eating toxic 'food' :D
06:43<V453000>:d
06:43<V453000>NUTS was made a long time before YETI
06:43<liq3>I can just imagine what sort of monsters they must be to eat toxic waste or something.
06:43<liq3>yeh.
06:43<V453000>well yeh, that suggests no link between appearance of food and YETI :P
06:43<liq3>can you play YETI with anything besides NUTS?
06:44<V453000>you can but it wont look as nice probably
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06:55<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i'd settle for an "infra sharing light" where you can join your station to another company's station, and they share cargo, but you can't drive on their rails
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>(this opens up a whole new "he steals my cargo" problem, though)
06:58-!-Pikkaphone [~yaaic@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:59<@peter1138>Subsidiaries!
06:59<Pikka> !kick peter1138
07:00<Pikka>such filthy language
07:00<@peter1138>NewBridges!
07:00<Pikka>New(air)Ports, you mean
07:00<Pikka>RoadTypes and
07:01<Pikka>signalsintunnels?
07:02<@peter1138>z-layers
07:02<Pikka>signals on subsidiarybridges
07:02<@peter1138>signals on subsidiarystationcustombridgeheads
07:02<Pikka>bridges over stations, over houses, over airports, over stations
07:02<Pikka>over horses
07:03<Pikka>over ovens
07:06<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, yes, that would be definitely a possible light version. Which also doesn't change anything how track sharing could be done
07:07<@planetmaker>and then we turn on the oven. It's a sintering oven... 1500°C is nice and cozy
07:07<@planetmaker>but the signal then is always red
07:07<V453000>bridges over cc_oversized?
07:08<V453000>might not be as automatic as it seems :P
07:08<V453000>huge_ass_tunnels_for_oversized_sprites
07:08-!-Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:10<@peter1138>Massive tunnels for V453000's massive loads
07:13<V453000>.
07:13<V453000>peter1138 has any experience with creating titles for porn movies?
07:15<^Spike^>somehow i don't know if i should regret opening my irc client @ work or just well laugh... :)
07:16<Pikka>hmmmm
07:17<V453000>dump
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07:18<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker, ^Spike^: any chance to bring back commit emails on the devzone?
07:21<Pikka>http://i.imgur.com/YcWKMdx.png
07:21<Pikka>it's not that bad
07:22<@peter1138>Eww
07:22<@peter1138>Train is nice of course.
07:24<Pikka>fabulous zbase coast sprites? and tunnels? :)
07:24<Pikka>base sets are such a lot of work... there's a reason there aren't more of them.
07:24<@planetmaker>did we ever have commit e-mails?
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes, i think Ammler once seet that up for me
07:25<@planetmaker>Pikka, V453000 I wonder whether you two could just team up for a base set. I could also offer coding
07:25<@planetmaker>there's enough climates for different styles, too :)
07:26<Pikka>I imagine we'd have different ideas about style :P
07:26<@planetmaker>:)
07:26<Pikka>and tbh half a baseset is still a lot of work, might as well make a whole one.
07:26<Pikka>as far as "different climates" goes... I wasn't planning to differentiate :P
07:26<supermop>how many total sprites?
07:26<@planetmaker>half a baseset is half the work :D
07:26<Pikka>same houses, grass, etc. :)
07:27<@planetmaker>Pikka, really?
07:27<@planetmaker>well, sure, for starters
07:27<@Rubidium>why create a new base set when zbase could still be massively improved?
07:27<V453000>planetmaker: I am intending to create one, I am just taking it step by step, not by direct "go create a base set"
07:28<V453000>but, will be done with yeti rather soon
07:28<V453000>landscape is already on the way, tracks/roads naturally follow
07:28<V453000>after tracks, trains can start to happen
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07:29<Pikka>that's a funny question, Rubidium :)
07:29<V453000>but I cant say I am very interested in creating buildings/ships/aircraft so far
07:29<Pikka>you can borrow my ships / aircraft, V
07:29<Pikka>when I have some
07:29<V453000>yeah, eventually :P
07:30<V453000>see, planetmaker we aint need to team up, it happens itself :P
07:30<Pikka>from my POV, a base set is really just the landscape
07:30<V453000>I say see what future brings
07:30<V453000>yeah, landscape is biggest hell
07:30<Pikka>because I'm planning to make house, industry, track, vehicle etc sets
07:30<V453000>aaand I have landscape sprites ready
07:30<V453000>one kind of them anyway
07:30<V453000>sure
07:30<Pikka>so everything except the landscape is just
07:30<Pikka>placeholders from grf
07:31<V453000>newgrf :) yes
07:31<Pikka>yes
07:31<Pikka>that too
07:31<@planetmaker>supermop, around 7000 and whatever is in extra. With OpenGFX that's another 4300 sprites currently
07:31<supermop>http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltxdjlJVLz1qctyfzo1_500.png
07:31<Pikka>I'm sure some people would just use the base set
07:31<@planetmaker>so overall you can calculate 10k sprites
07:31<Pikka>particularly in multiplayer
07:31<V453000>yeah
07:31<supermop>multiplayer is best case for base sets
07:32<supermop>vast majority of open servers i see are sans newgrf
07:32*Pikka has some tracks done, and basic landscape geometry
07:32<@planetmaker>Rubidium, people always seem to want to do *their own stuff* instead of starting from something and improving that.
07:32<supermop>and i get a little tired of always seeing the same towns
07:32<supermop>some static grfs would help a lot
07:32<^Spike^>Eddi|zuHause: we'll try to look into it just trying to think how it might've worked
07:33<^Spike^>as devzone did had some needed changes and still has 1 pending aswell
07:33<@planetmaker>^Spike^, Eddi|zuHause I assume it might have worked via redmine. But it won't be sent when no-one crawled the repo page on redmine
07:33<@planetmaker>thus enabling that via rest api from a commit hook might already solve that again
07:33<V453000>I have landscape geometry + cutting mask/after effects infrastructure which creates actual sprites from it
07:33<V453000>and they seem to work
07:34<V453000>even tried in a grf
07:34<^Spike^>:)
07:34<supermop>is japan set gpl? breaking some sprites out of there is an easy base set
07:34<V453000>is japan set ez/32bpp? :P
07:35<V453000>ttd base set is perfect for old 8bpp, no need to change that
07:35<supermop>just find whatever is the closest equivalent for a kirby paul etc
07:35<@planetmaker>supermop, it is. check devzone
07:35<Pikka>supermop: the point of the exercise is not to make *a* baseset
07:35<@planetmaker>:)
07:35<Pikka>it's to make the baseset we want to make
07:35<supermop>haha
07:35<V453000>plus that
07:36<supermop>well, if the purpose is to make the greatest number of basesets with least effort
07:36<supermop>....
07:36<@planetmaker>supermop, just making a landscape replacement set is easier compared to making a base set. Landscape replacement could also be static really
07:36<^Spike^>i just blame ehm.... i don't know... planetmaker ? :)
07:36<@planetmaker>if it would not include stuff which I included in ogfx+landscape. Like the objects
07:37<supermop>look out for my upcoming "pink square base" comprising 10000 plain pink square sprites
07:37<V453000>one base set already did aim to create something at all costs, sacrificing quality for speed in which it is done
07:37<V453000>not intending to do that :P
07:37<V453000>I will just continue creating my world and one day it might be large enough to convert it to a base set / OR I might just at least have the infrastructure to create a base set with less effort already
07:38<V453000>it wont be too soon, true
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07:39<@peter1138>Pixel-art 4x baseset, do it.
07:39<Pikka>imgur jpged my screenshot, boo.
07:39<@peter1138>Hmm, I wonder if I still have the old scaling filters...
07:39<Pikka>http://i.imgur.com/m1XfqUm.jpg trakzzz
07:40<V453000>too black inside, otherwise ok :P
07:40<supermop>don't touch the steel of that bridge with bare hands
07:40<@peter1138>zbase bridges are pretty bad
07:41<Pikka>because they're 1x scaled. same with the signals and wires. :P
07:41<@peter1138>Yeah
07:41<supermop>no motivation for better bridges with current spec though?
07:41<Pikka>he didn't really make anything "finer". but there was a time, I seem to remember, when everyone was obsessed with what things looked like at normal zoom rather than 4x. :P
07:43<supermop>Pikka: i think with ballast that dark, rails should be browner,
07:43<Pikka>it's all WIP. and it's all toy trains. :P
07:43<supermop>more the color of corten like a new rail sitting on the side of the tracks
07:43<V453000>:)
07:44<Pikka>I'm not sure EZ rail junctions can look good, btw. Unless we resurrect that old idea of railsets being able to define a sprite for each different junction ;)
07:44<supermop>silver rail do evoke a certain HO set quality though
07:47<supermop>Pikka: visavis houses, what "scale" do you think is practical, regardless of "scale" of other elements? or is it not worth keeping buildings consistent with each other?
07:48<Pikka>I'm trying to keep things to a consistent scale... which isn't necessarily consistent with other graphics or "reality".
07:48<Pikka>let me calculating, just a sec...
07:49<V453000>I shit on scale on all levels :D
07:50<V453000>ofc it is "somewhat" similar, but ...
07:50<Pikka>yes, but you're you
07:50<V453000>:D
07:50<V453000>that doestn mean anything
07:50<Pikka>if you say so
07:52<Eddi|zuHause><Pikka> I'm not sure EZ rail junctions can look good, btw. Unless we resurrect that old idea of railsets being able to define a sprite for each different junction ;) <-- alternatively, draw sleepers and rails in separate steps
07:52<Pikka>even then, eddi. it would be simpler and nicer to just draw the whole junction. you're still going to have sleepers and rails overlapping oddly otherwise.
07:52<Pikka>if you draw the whole junction you could actually model a switch, etc :D
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>yes
07:53<Eddi|zuHause>go ahead then :p
07:53<Pikka>and there's only... I don't remember how many. 20-odd.
07:53<Pikka>I worked it out last time. :P
07:53<Eddi|zuHause>2^6 different junctions, if you don't try to blend in with neighbouring tiles
07:54<Pikka>which you don't, because that way madness lies
07:54<@peter1138>I had a patch for that.
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>genious and madness are not particularly far apart :p
07:55<V453000>^
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>there's a prime example for that :p
07:55<V453000>iz not
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>iz too.
07:56<Pikka>I actually did calculate how many tiles you'd need if you blended with neighbouring tiles before, btw, because if you try to make geometrically correct diagonal track (rather than TTD narrowed diagonal track) you need to overlap the next tile
07:56<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/0001-Add-flag-and-railtype-sprite-type-to-draw-pre-combined-ground-sprites..patch
07:56<@peter1138>^ still there
07:56<Pikka>I got to the high thousands before I gave up :)
07:56<Pikka>excellent, peter1138 :)
07:57<Pikka>someone had better make a test grf or something. I nominate V.
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: there was a study on the forum about how to actually model curved junctions
07:57<Pikka>there was, but it was a load of rubbish :)
07:58<@peter1138>Simplest way is to play Train Fever.
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>the idea was that you separate each edge and the center of the tile, so you assemble the tile from 5 parts. 4 of which are rotationally symmetric
07:58<supermop>ok i'm off to bed, later
07:59<Pikka>goodnight
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>so you don't have to model all that much, the rest of the combinatorial explosion can be scripted
07:59<Pikka>well, peter1138, the openttd community *is* dying, I hear. We'll all have to move to train fever eventually.
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>i might port CETS to train fever in the future. if i ever find a comprehensive spec :p
08:00<@peter1138>I'm dying :(
08:00<Pikka>must be the heat
08:01<@peter1138>www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=62667&hiliDyt=curved+track
08:01<@peter1138>that thread?
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>openttd has been "dying" for like 10 years now :p
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08:01<Pikka>yeah but now it's *really* dying
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: yes. the post by ben_robbins about halfway down
08:02<Pikka>'cause we've chased out all the true visionaries. not naming any names, of course.
08:03<@peter1138>ACtively.
08:03<@Alberth>Pikka: great dudes wagon!
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: you mean the dysfunctional elements?
08:04<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, what about the green images on the next page?
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: remember eis_os, or tron, or richk?
08:06<@peter1138>Hackykid
08:06<@peter1138>Ripping track 5 of 7 (try 4):
08:06<@peter1138>I guess this is never going to work :S
08:06<Pikka>I believe richk got an honourable mention, yes :)
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i do not remember having thought much about that part
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: it may be possible that "train nerds" and "dysfunctional social interaction" have quite a lot of overlap
08:08<@peter1138>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=165071
08:09<@peter1138>Hmm, so find a way to conveniently calculate or cache that information...
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that's the picture i was remembering
08:10<@Rubidium>talking about TGP; it doesn't scale well to higher heights. For higher heights you need more long wavelengths to get through the 100+ heightlevels without steep walls, but due to the way TGP is implemented (long wavelengths + large amplitudes + interpolation) you get vast rectangles where the predominant orientation is the same
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08:11<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: cubic spline interpolation instead of linear?
08:11<@Rubidium>mostly because the long wavelength amplitudes are needed for the massive height differences, but that leaves you with a way more rectangular map due to the fact that TGP generates a 'base' point at regular intervals (wavelength) and interpolates in between
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: or you just need to increase the low wavelengths to add more variation
08:13<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: that's a bit the problem, you can't make them much higher because then you'd hit the 45 degree gradient
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: cliffs :)
08:16<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/alpinist_very_rough.png <- basically the current very rough with amplitudes for higher wavelengths (the higher wavelengths are getting a decreasing relative power in gradient)
08:16<@Rubidium>i.e. the higher the wavelength becomes, the smaller its input in the gradient of the mountains
08:18<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/no_higher_wavelengths.png <- same settings, but without the higher wavelengths
08:22<fjb>Pyramidal
08:22<@peter1138>That's...
08:24<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/extgen1.png
08:25<Celestar>:P
08:25<@peter1138>No crazy heightlevels, but an externally generated heightmap.
08:25<@peter1138>Not enough lows :S
08:25<@planetmaker>looks nice. But probably too many too steep hill sides
08:26<argoneus>good morning train friends
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i don't think your problem can be solved without either stretching out the distance between peaks, so you get more rolling-hills-style, or implementing cliffs so you can have gradients above 45°
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: the problem is that all the fractal cruftyness that makes perlin maps look "nice" gets eaten by the processing step that makes sure there is only 1 heightlevel change between tiles
08:29<fjb>But how do you build behind a cliff?
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: also, it's really painful to actually build in such areas without cliffs
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>as you either have to lower or raise half a mountain to terraform something
08:32<Celestar>heya Rubidium ;)
08:32<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: well, that's exactly what happens with alpinist_very_rough compared to no_higher_wavelengths
08:33<@Rubidium>but the longer wavelengths become way more visible
08:33<@Rubidium>moin Celestar
08:45<@peter1138>Quick, time to do the cliffs
08:45<@peter1138>Never mind not being able to see behind them...
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i don't remember which settings i used with this (ChillPP) game: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Thomson%20Co.,%2016.%20Sep%201922.png
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>but it was a giant pain...
08:47<@peter1138>That does not look too fun :p
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>all i know is that for the next game i used a much smoother map
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08:57<Pinkbeast>Eddi|zuHause: That's a RV sort of map, really. :-/
08:58<fjb>Pinkbeast: Where do you place the stations for the road vehicles?
08:58<V453000>V hereby rejects your nomination Pikka
08:58<Eddi|zuHause>RV-stations on slopes!
08:58<Pikka>shameful display
08:59<liq3>fjb: you terraform a bit?
08:59<Pinkbeast>At least you've only got to find a smidge of space for them.
09:00<fjb>liq3: You'd need to terraform away big parts of the towns on Eddy's map.
09:00<liq3>seems like there's enough room to me
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09:02<V453000>btw Pikka which climates will NARS666 work in?
09:03<Pikka>all, of course
09:03<V453000>toylandz?
09:03<Pikka>why not?
09:03<V453000>(.
09:04<V453000>ah they just change availability in climates?
09:04<@planetmaker>V453000, why would you need to change availability by climate for a vehicle grf?
09:04<@planetmaker>just forget about climate and care about cargo support. That's it
09:04<V453000>well the older NARS only has some engines only in some climates
09:05<@planetmaker>vehicles which only support unavailable cargoes won't become available
09:05-!-Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:05<V453000>unrelated to cargoes, non-cargo engines
09:05<@planetmaker>it's something you can do, of course, yes :)
09:05<V453000>yes, and I am asking how is Pikka handling it in newer version :P
09:05<Pikka>why would they change availability in climates? :)
09:05<Pikka>sounds like a pretty bad feature to me :o
09:06<V453000>e.g. GG1 wasnt in arctic, AEM-7 was not in tropic?
09:06<V453000>or something like that?
09:06<Pikka>terrible
09:07<Pikka>who would concieve such a ridiculous notion?
09:07<V453000>there was even a table on pikkawiki :P
09:07<V453000>ME REMEMBERZ
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09:08<Pikka>oh well
09:08<Pikka>still not as dumb as regearing
09:08<V453000>XD
09:09<Pikka>just wait though
09:09<V453000>you can do regearing according to curren_track_type :P
09:09<Pikka>there will be complaints, "regearing was what made this set special, now it feels dumbed down"
09:09<V453000>nutz does that basically
09:09<V453000>there will always be complaints
09:09<Pikka>"I liked having to have a caboose before 1975, it was realistic"
09:09<Pikka>"station refitting ate my dingo"
09:09<V453000>the last one is valid :P
09:10<fjb>Dingo cargo only in Australia.
09:11<Pinkbeast>I quite liked guard's vans actually (modulo OTTD's lack of complete train autoreplace...)
09:11<Pikka>see!
09:11<Pikka>you can still build them, anyway
09:11<Pikka>you just don't *have* to build them.
09:12<Pinkbeast>I like to have to build them.
09:12<Pikka>ok, well
09:12<Pikka>*you* have to build them. that is an order.
09:12<Pikka>for everyone else it's optional.
09:12<V453000>xd
09:12<Pinkbeast>I'm not complaining, it's not like UKRS2 went away and obviously you are going to do what you want to see in sets...
09:13<Pikka>hmm
09:13<Pikka>good idea
09:13<Pikka>I will get rid of UKRS2 :D
09:14<V453000>SABOTAGE IT
09:14<Flygon>Man
09:14<Flygon>Y'know, if I imagine y'all as pirates in my head
09:14<Flygon>This becomes the best IRC chatroom I'm in
09:15<@Alberth>would it be #pirate then?
09:15<Flygon>V453 goes like, "Yaaaaaaarr, sabotage the lot. The other guys'll never know what hit them!"
09:15<Flygon>And Pikka is like
09:15<Flygon>A Pikachu with an eyepatch
09:15<Flygon>Because I'm original like that @_@
09:15<Flygon>YES
09:15<Flygon>I WANT TO BE A PIRATE~
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: how is this not already the best irc channel?
09:16<@Alberth>I think we are lacking a pirate train and pirate boats
09:16<Flygon>Needs more drunk furries
09:16<Flygon>...Alberth
09:16<Flygon>Pirate boats
09:16<Flygon>That would be like
09:16<Flygon>An awesome GRF
09:17<V453000>XD
09:17<V453000>Pikachu with an eyepatch XD
09:17<V453000>I will never imagine Pikka differently now
09:17<Pikka>differently from drunk?
09:18<V453000>Y
09:18<V453000>ARR
09:19<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Too few girls...
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>girls are overr... err, wait... :p
09:20<Pikka>girls are over there.
09:23<fjb>Girls on the net are all fakes.
09:24<Pikka>even you?
09:24<argoneus>on the internet
09:24<argoneus>no one knows you are a train
09:24<argoneus>choo choo
09:24*fjb doesn't even exist.
09:28<Flygon>fjb is a combination of stray packets sent on the Internet back in 1988
09:28<Flygon>Then he became a sentient lifeform :3
09:28<Flygon>His name is a result of gibberish assembled into a name
09:28<Flygon>His home is millions of computers worldwide
09:29<Flygon>And he is here with us today
09:29<Flygon><3
09:29<Flygon>argoneus: I do wonder how many M-sets fjb inhabits :B
10:01<V453000>hmmm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/test.wmv
10:01<V453000>not very yeti XD
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10:05*mtraceur waves
10:05<mtraceur>I'm getting pretty far into a game and noticing that all of the engines in the list are no longer available for some reason
10:06<mtraceur>I can still build cars, just not engines
10:06<mtraceur>Wondered if anyone knew why that would happen
10:06<@planetmaker>you probably can build maglev still
10:07<@planetmaker>vehicle models will become unavailable. That's the course of normal events
10:07<mtraceur>Ah.
10:07<@planetmaker>if you use any NewGRFs they can modify any of these aspects as they see fit
10:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27005 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-13 14:07:37 UTC)
10:07<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26999): variety distribution curve map scaling did one conversion to height_t too many
10:08<mtraceur>planetmaker: I don't think I can build maglev...unless it's special somehow
10:09<@planetmaker>it's another track type. click and hold the track icon in the main toolbar
10:09<mtraceur>Ah.
10:09<@planetmaker>what year is your game and what climate do you play?
10:11<mtraceur>planetmaker: Temperate, 2028
10:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27006 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-13 14:12:06 UTC)
10:12<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: move getting of the amplitude to a seperate function
10:12<mtraceur>OK, so I did see that there were electric engines available, so I'll build those
10:12<mtraceur>Thanks :)
10:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27007 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-13 14:14:04 UTC)
10:14<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: allow for more frequencies (based on patch by ic111)
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10:16<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27008 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-13 14:16:20 UTC)
10:16<@DorpsGek>-Change: extrapolate the amplitudes for the large wavelengths needed for much higher maps
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10:22<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27009 /trunk/src (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-10-13 14:22:48 UTC)
10:22<@DorpsGek>-Add: extra level of general map heightness (ChillCore)
10:23<Pikka>heightnessosity
10:25<V453000>:o
10:31<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27010 trunk/src/tile_type.h (2014-10-13 14:30:59 UTC)
10:31<@DorpsGek>-Feature [FS#4126]: more height levels (ic111, ChillCore, CommanderZ)
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10:59<LordAro>:o
11:43<@Terkhen>ooh, cool
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12:26*peter1138 spots a bug.
12:37<V453000>is feature
12:38<@peter1138>*nod*
12:50-!-DanMacK [~63f912e8@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
12:50<DanMacK>Hey all
12:50<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
12:50<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 0 hours, 27 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <andythenorth> where is cat?
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12:58-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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13:12<andythenorth>ou est chat?
13:12<@Alberth>right here? o/
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13:16<@Alberth>o/
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13:26<@planetmaker>le chat, il est... sur le chaiselongue
13:29<+glx>*la ;)
13:29<+glx>and a space between chaise and longue
13:29<@Rubidium>male cat?
13:29<+glx>female object :)
13:30<@Rubidium>glx: nah, was more wondering about the gender of the cat
13:30<+glx>well it's "le chat" or "la chatte"
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13:34<@planetmaker>:)
13:34<@planetmaker>I knew le chat. And I should have guessed the Gender of chaise longue from German :P
13:35<liq3>really wish there was a hotkey for hiding trains in the "available trains" window.
13:35*Rubidium just guesses gender by a trailing e in French ;)
13:35<@planetmaker>:)
13:35<@Rubidium>otherwise... plural for grammar tests ;)
13:35<+glx>the adjective was a hint there ;)
13:36<@planetmaker>I only knew 'le chat' as I visited a friend earlier who has a cat. And there of course used 'la chat' and was told that it's different in french ;)
13:38<liq3>Where should I give suggestions?
13:38<frosch123>do you mean toggling "show hidden", or do you mean "toggle selected engine"?
13:39<liq3>I mean the "hide" button.
13:40<frosch123>you can ctrl+click in the list
13:40<liq3>oh really?
13:40<liq3>that works. ty
13:40<liq3>silly hidden hotkeys.
13:41<Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> I knew le chat. And I should have guessed the Gender of chaise longue from German :P <--that guess is not always accurate
13:41<@planetmaker>of course not. 50% chance or so :P
13:41<+glx>english is easier ;)
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>the rule of thumb my french teacher used: "99% if it's 'beautiful' it's female, and if it's not, it's male"
13:42<+glx>hehe
13:43<@Rubidium>there must be a lot of males in France ;)
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>the odd things about cats is that in german, it's a rare case of "generic femininum"
13:43<@Rubidium>or a lot of beautiful women
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>in almost all places, if you talk about something where the gender is unknown or mixed, you use male. just not with cats
13:45<+glx>because it's usually cute :)
13:45<fjb>The good thing about french girls is: they are beautiful. The bad thing is: they speak French.
13:45<@planetmaker>lool
13:46<@Rubidium>but the accent is so nice ;)
13:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27011 /trunk/src/lang (7 files) (2014-10-13 17:49:11 UTC)
13:49<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:49<@DorpsGek>catalan - 1 changes by juanjo
13:49<@DorpsGek>croatian - 15 changes by VoyagerOne
13:49<@DorpsGek>dutch - 28 changes by habell
13:49<@DorpsGek>latin - 5 changes by Supercheese
13:49<@DorpsGek>latvian - 50 changes by Olby
13:49<@DorpsGek>gaelic - 34 changes by GunChleoc
13:49<@DorpsGek>spanish - 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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13:56<__ln__>le http://unicode-table.com/en/1F408/
13:59<Taede>thats where scottish girls have the advantage
13:59<Taede>nice accent, and its a form of english too
14:02*fjb never met a scottish girl.
14:03<@planetmaker>kiwi are in that category, too ;)
14:07<SpComb>🐈
14:08<SpComb>irssi doesn't understand it :(
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14:15<Wolf01>hello
14:16<@peter1138>🐱
14:16<SpComb>nope
14:16<@peter1138>For some reason I have that glyph, but not 1F408.
14:16<Wolf01>:D a kitty
14:16<@peter1138>But anyway it's not irssi understanding it...
14:16<SpComb>is it just irssi that refuses to decode it?
14:17<@peter1138>irssi doesn't need to decode it.
14:17<@peter1138>Your terminal handles that.
14:20<@Alberth>(or not, in this case :p )
14:20<@peter1138>Well, if no font has the glyph... time for a sprite font? :D
14:21<Brumi>umm
14:21<Brumi>where is STR_TERRAIN_TYPE_ALPINIST supposed to show up in the game?
14:22<Brumi>didn't find it by searching the source of r27001 either
14:22<@peter1138>SpComb, http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/Symbola.zip
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14:22<@peter1138>That font contains it.
14:23<@Rubidium>Brumi: it's more recent than that, but in the new game window below hilly and mountainous in the dropdown
14:24<Brumi>okay
14:24<Brumi>but shouldn't it be Alpine or something like that? Alpinist is the person who climbs mountains
14:26<SpComb>peter1138: it's not just the font, irssi replaces it with U+1F408
14:27<@Alberth>you mean the rectangular picture with hex number?
14:28-!-Klanticus [~quassel@187.39.191.115] has joined #openttd
14:28<@Alberth>that's sort of standard to show characters that are not available at your machine
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14:32<@peter1138>📗📘📙
14:32<@peter1138>Green, blue and orange books, respectively. Allegedly.
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14:38<Wolf01>mmh, it seem that the water arrived here too
14:39<frosch123>climb on a mountain
14:39<frosch123>or build a ship
14:40<@peter1138>Wolf01's ark?
14:40<Wolf01>I'm in a polder
14:44<Wolf01>and the nice fact, is that the wind is coming from the sea, so we'll expect the river won't help
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15:37<frosch123>@calc 1050/9*21
15:37<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 2450
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15:58<Wolf01>'night
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16:42<@peter1138>urgh, rgb recolours was nearly 2 years ago
16:43<@peter1138>Predates SSE blitters ;(
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17:43<Leanden>i tried to connect through the forums and it says "banned"
17:43<Leanden>Closing Link: ircip4.mibbit.com (Banned)
17:43<Leanden>any ideas?
17:44<@planetmaker>yes. Don't use mibbit
17:44<Leanden>figured that was the cause
17:44<Leanden>why is mibbit embedded in the forums instead of a proper IRC client?
17:44<@planetmaker>the forum link to irc is broken for ages. Mibbit does not implement the irc api to this network properly
17:44<@planetmaker>also, it's nothing we can do about. It's network policy of oftc
17:45<Leanden>ow ok
17:45<@planetmaker>mibbit chose to ignore oftc's advice for two years to adjust their interface. After two years the old api was unplugged
17:46<Leanden>fair enough
17:46<@planetmaker>basically mibbit does not implement any protection for oftc to ban single griefers
17:46<@planetmaker>thus they ban mibbit
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>i guess the question is: why does the forum still run mibbit, then?
17:50<Leanden>that was my next question
17:50<Leanden>(and also my original question... "why is mibbit embedded in the forums instead of a proper IRC client? ")
17:51<@planetmaker>owen never came around to fixing? But you better ask that in forums :D
17:52<@planetmaker>it might remind him
17:52<frosch123>wasn't it just reminded two week ago :p
17:52<frosch123>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=66372 <- your thread to complain in :)
17:52<Leanden>i guess he is busy fixing amitrains
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17:55<frosch123>no idea what that is, google says locomotion
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17:56<Leanden>its one of Owen's other sites
17:56<Leanden>that hosts mods for locomotion
17:56<Leanden>recently got hacked
17:56<frosch123>actually, the top hit is a forum thread from 2011 about it being down
17:57<Leanden>ay, amitrains was never actually floated on google
17:57<Leanden>so wont show up in searches :)
17:58<Leanden>except that second link right there
17:58<@peter1138>"floated"... what?
17:59<Leanden>cant think of the right term
17:59<@peter1138>Google follows links all the over the place. You don't request to be added.
18:00<frosch123>well, you could try with a search engine that does not respect robot restrictions
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18:00<Leanden>actually... http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/submit-url
18:01<Leanden>for the sites i host i had to request them to be indexed by google
18:01<frosch123>sounds like when we send someone to talk to dorpsgek
18:06<Leanden>right im going to bed
18:06<Leanden>night all
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18:09<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> Google follows links all the over the place. You don't request to be added. <-- but you can request it to not be added.
18:14<frosch123>night
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18:15<Eddi|zuHause>"iceland now cracks down on websites using the .is TLD for the 'islamic state'"
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 14 00:00:51 2014