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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-14

---Logopened Tue Oct 14 00:00:51 2014
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02:04<Supercheese>Is the Tutorial script translatable yet?
02:06<@Rubidium>Supercheese: I see no real reason why it shouldn't be
02:06<Supercheese>Well, I meant via eints
02:06<@Rubidium>having said that, it might not have enabled eints translations
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02:19<Supercheese>although eints is not working for Latin for me at the moment anyway....
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03:07<Supercheese>Hmm, the credit roll under "About OpenTTD" is not translatable
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03:19<__ln__>oh, a bug: the year is not expressed in roman numerals
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03:23<andythenorth>so not just a few more height levels then?
03:24<V453000>wat wat wat wat wat
03:26<Supercheese>the year where?
03:26<__ln__>in the bottom left corner
03:26<Supercheese>That is more of a personal preference, methinks
03:26<Supercheese>I can read smallish numbers in Roman numerals easily
03:27<Supercheese>but large numbers tend to cause more trouble than I desire
03:27<Supercheese>also it's a {NUM} call or such
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03:27<__ln__>yes, probably something the translation cannot change
03:28<Supercheese>I can change the year under "About OpenTTD" though
03:28<Supercheese>may be nice
03:29<Supercheese>Huh... my textbook has all its copyright info in Latin, but retains Arabic numerals everywhere
03:31<Supercheese>I suppose he didn't want to write the ISBN out in numerals
03:31<@Rubidium>aren't Roman numerals obnoxious after about 3000?
03:32<Supercheese>Rubidium: they are obnoxious everywhere ;)
03:32<andythenorth>MHL \o/
03:33<@Rubidium>Supercheese: well, MIM it shorter than it's arabic equivalent ;)
03:33<Supercheese>If only brevity equaled ease of reading & operating on
03:34<Supercheese>and, well, even then it would still be lame
03:38<Supercheese>I've put the copyright dates in numerals
03:38<@Rubidium>thanks for the PITA ;)
03:40<@Rubidium>now my fix for r26192 doesn't work anymore :(
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03:45<Supercheese>@commit 26192
03:45<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: Commit by rubidium :: r26192 /trunk/src (59 files in 3 dirs) (2013-12-31 23:08:55 UTC)
03:45<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: -Fix (r24878): off-by-one error ;)
03:45<Supercheese>Ah, a script I presume
03:45*Supercheese will take care of it
03:46<Supercheese>string should be marked as needing validation each change
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03:58<@planetmaker>they are marked as such. Aren't they?
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03:59<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't un-break the script, though
04:05<Supercheese>eh, I suppose
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04:11<@Rubidium>also, I wonder whether those copyright notices are "valid" with Roman numerals
04:12<@Rubidium>although... all those movies
04:13<__ln__>also, the berne convention guarantees copyright without explicit notices about it.
04:24<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27012 trunk/docs/openttd.6 (2014-10-14 08:24:47 UTC)
04:24<@DorpsGek>-Change: improvements to the man page (bentley)
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05:45<@peter1138>magic road vehicles
05:45<andythenorth>probably faller car system
05:47<andythenorth>appeared when we were kids, depending on your age
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06:27<V453000>I finally finished yeti walking cycle XD
06:27<V453000>mayhem can begin
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07:23<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27013 /trunk/src (vehicle_gui.cpp vehiclelist.h) (2014-10-14 11:23:41 UTC)
07:23<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: extract the functionality to determine the number of digits to make space for when drawing an unit number into a separate function
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07:35<liq3>V453000: The YETI worker yard NML Code comments don't match the play guide.
07:36<V453000>I did not write it, Sylf did
07:36<V453000>I would believe the play guide
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07:37<liq3>Yeh Play Guide is probably right.
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07:38<liq3>Interesting how worker yards work now. You can just have one giant city and 1 worker yard. :p
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07:39<V453000>theoretically yes
07:39<V453000>in practice waiting for the city to grow is a bit arse
07:39<liq3>yeh, I'm sure
07:39<liq3>...also, is there even a limit on how many YETIs one worker yard can produce?
07:39<V453000>but you can e.g. only give food/bdmt to one worker yard, and grow the town there
07:40<V453000>while still using other worker yards
07:40<V453000>yeah probably 4x2295 per month
07:40<V453000>or something like that
07:40<liq3>that's weird.
07:40<V453000>sounds suspiciously low though
07:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27014 trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp (2014-10-14 11:40:38 UTC)
07:40<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6102]: unit number was not always fully shown in depots
07:40<V453000>idk :) try
07:40<liq3>I think I will. :D
07:41<liq3>V453000: is there a reason PZG2013 had multiple oil refinaries?
07:41<V453000>one can only output 30k something
07:41<V453000>@calc 12*2295
07:41<@DorpsGek>V453000: 27540
07:41<liq3>oh interesting.
07:41<liq3>what's up with those arbitrary limits.
07:41<V453000>just some code limit in openttd
07:42<liq3>well, there's one ingame with 29,519. hrm
07:43<liq3>oh well doesn't matter.
07:45<V453000>hm refinery probably doesnt have 12 tiles
07:45<V453000>@calc 15*2295
07:45<@DorpsGek>V453000: 34425
07:45<V453000>could be that
07:45<liq3>so it's tiles x 2295?
07:45<V453000>it is just amount of tiles *2295
07:45<liq3>how odd.
07:45<liq3>OpenTTD has so many weird technical 'quirks'.
07:47<V453000>not like it is a big deal
07:47<V453000>30k is a lot
07:47<V453000>unless your game needs 200k :>
07:48<V453000>and even then, pzg2013 only produced it, didnt even transport it
07:49<liq3>i'm wondering what the loss of goods in YETI is now. :D
07:50<V453000>what loss
07:50<liq3>Like, when you deliver original goods to a town, they disappear.
07:51<liq3>I have a feeling YETI may endlessly increase the number of goods in existance...
07:51<liq3>seems to be what's happening in my game. :P
07:51<V453000>assuming you continue to grow the town, theoretically such effect should be there indeed
07:51<V453000>in practice it isnt that drastical
07:52<V453000>but it is good
07:52<V453000>it follows the idea of the original game
07:52<V453000>"you can never win"
07:52<liq3>a neverending tide of cargo, and no matter how many trains, you can't deliver it all. :D
07:54<V453000>well yes but original industries stay sane till ~2000 and when you get the fast trains they just explode
07:55<V453000>while yeti should again have no real limit, but it should be more progressive
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07:59<Pikka>bless you
08:03<V453000>thank thee
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08:43<andythenorth>how do I enable gui zoom?
08:43<andythenorth>I had it, then binned my repo and pulled trunk
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08:44*andythenorth plays the old people edition
08:44<@peter1138>er, :D
08:45<@peter1138>due to being old, i hit shift & capslock together...
08:45<@planetmaker>double-sized keyboard needed?
08:45*andythenorth wonder who oldest dev is
08:45<@peter1138>Active... probably... uh... someone...
08:46<@peter1138>Belugas is older than me though :D
08:46<andythenorth>and me
08:46*andythenorth is not ottd dev
08:46<@peter1138>Just as well, there'd be no features left :D
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08:47<@peter1138>No bugs also!
08:47<andythenorth>cb 15E would be first against the wall
08:48<andythenorth>come the revolution
08:48<@peter1138>ini files
08:48<andythenorth>hmm 15F
08:48<andythenorth>I wrote most of 15F :O
08:48<andythenorth>it’s about two lines :P
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08:51<andythenorth>why am I drawing trams with two cabs?
08:51<andythenorth>they can’t fricking reverse :P
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08:59<@peter1138>Make them reverse
08:59<andythenorth>would make trams too easy?
08:59<andythenorth>no need for those tedious turnround loops?
08:59<andythenorth>have to code swapping tracks :P
08:59<andythenorth>meh etc
09:00*andythenorth back to drawing fruit tram
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09:06<@peter1138>Ew, I left it on zBase.
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09:12<@planetmaker>peter1138, I wonder whether it shouldn't be two setting possibilities, one for button size, one for (sprite) font size
09:12<@planetmaker>but maybe that's better changed when we get real font config.
09:13<@planetmaker>and maybe I just want less blocky 2x sprite fonts :P
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09:16<@peter1138>Main reason I did font-size was to solve the bloody text-icons :S
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09:22<andythenorth>I just invented this
09:22<andythenorth>then found the picture
09:23<V453000>lesson to learn: dont look for pictures XD
09:27<LordAro>now that's interesting...
09:27<LordAro>newgrf scanner text is fine though...
09:27<@planetmaker>you've an interesting choice of font, LordAro ;)
09:28<@planetmaker>newgrf scanner text might not yet use openttd's font engine. It doesn#t yet know about grf availability
09:28<LordAro>unfortunately, i haven't set any font
09:28<@planetmaker>(it's actually a grf scanner, finding also base sets)
09:28<@planetmaker>same as reload_newgrfs reloads base grfs, too ;)
09:29<@Rubidium>static NewGRFs?
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09:29<@planetmaker>I don't know about those
09:29<@planetmaker>but you could consider base sets as such :)
09:30<LordAro>reload_newgrfs did nothing either
09:30*LordAro tests a clean checkout to make sure
09:32<LordAro>something's corrupted somewhere though, as the "font" seems to be using the animated colours
09:36<@Rubidium>default palette?
09:37<LordAro>nope, clean checkout broken too
09:38<LordAro>`newgrf_default_palette = 1`
09:38<LordAro> <-- have cfg file
09:39<@peter1138>but that isn't zBase.
09:40<@Rubidium>LordAro: can you determine which exact revision caused this bug?
09:41<LordAro>r(latest - 276) worked fine, as far as i can recall
09:41*LordAro will do some bisecting
09:41<@peter1138>Focus on 27004 I guess
09:47<LordAro>will do so
09:47<LordAro>or, i would, if i didn't have a lecture in 15 mins
09:48<@planetmaker>write a small bisecting script and have it test automatically ;) Problem: a script taking screenshots and analysing them might take more than 15 minutes to write :P
09:49<LordAro>planetmaker: :p
09:49<@Rubidium>planetmaker: but the screenshot taking already exists: intro game competition
09:50<LordAro>i feel like analysing them is an open research problem though ;)
09:51<@peter1138>What compilers do you use?
09:52<LordAro>it's probably using gcc
09:53<LordAro>i can force it to use clang if you'd like
09:53<@peter1138>You probably could've quickly tested 27003 and 27004 by now :p
09:54<LordAro>possibly :p
09:55<LordAro>but i'm doing it properly ;)
09:55<LordAro>i shall continue this later
09:55*LordAro -> differential equations
09:55<@planetmaker>Rubidium, yes. But the automatic analysis might be more interesting, returning 1 or 0 depending on 'bad' or 'good'
09:55<@peter1138>I'm not sure what is improper about testing 2 specific revisions.
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10:16<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27015 trunk/src/fontcache.cpp (2014-10-14 14:16:38 UTC)
10:16<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Also scale the character spacing for fonts without shadow.
10:17<@peter1138>Small font doesn't look weird now :D
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10:36<@Rubidium>are fonts individually scal(e?)able?
10:39<@peter1138>Well, freetype fonts are not scaled of course.
10:58<@peter1138>planetmaker, how's the drive?
11:00<@planetmaker>the drive disconnected. But it didn't take down the system with it
11:00<@planetmaker>thus still not formatted
11:00<@peter1138>Hmm :S
11:02<@planetmaker>I'm starting to get hungry and getting something to continue to worry about for tomorrow. I'm starting to think it's a problem with the drive
11:03<@planetmaker>it's not like any other usb driver ever caused problems
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11:07<@peter1138>Hmm, I wonder if it's SMART queryable.
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11:10<andythenorth>is oil more like goods and stuff
11:10<andythenorth>or more like coal and stuff
11:11*andythenorth considering whether it’s a 30t tram or a 50t tram
11:11<andythenorth>but also refits chemicals, petrol and crap
11:11<Taede>more like coal i'd say
11:11<Taede>goods tend to have lots of air packed along with it
11:11<Taede>whereas raw resources are packed in one huge container (tank/hopper whatever)
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11:22<LordAro>peter1138: confirmed that r27004 is the breaking change
11:23<@peter1138>But why only you :S
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11:24<LordAro>no idea :/
11:24<@peter1138>Can you try
11:28<@peter1138>Sounds good to me.
11:29<@peter1138>I like it when my hunches are right ;p
11:29<@peter1138>I don't know why it's worked for everyone else though, heh.
11:30<LordAro>what's the issue with that?
11:32<@peter1138>I guess it's just been luck that it worked for everyone.
11:32<@peter1138>And your compiler is slightly different somehow.
11:32<@peter1138>I tried with clang too and it was still fine :P
11:33<LordAro>gcc 4.9.1
11:35<@peter1138>Fuck it, I installed my policy .deb on some servers and it keeps kicking me off an idle login now :()
11:35<@peter1138>(as per policy)
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11:51<andythenorth>o/ Alberth
11:51<@Alberth>hi hi
11:51<@Alberth>found cat?
11:52<andythenorth>under chair
11:52<andythenorth>usual place
11:52<andythenorth>also found trams
11:52<andythenorth>such trams
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11:53<@peter1138>double double ui
11:53<andythenorth>retina screenshots :|
11:53<andythenorth>can’t be bothered to downsample
11:54<@peter1138>Hmm, so your pixels are already doubled?
11:56<LordAro>dat quad UI tho
11:58<@peter1138>So does openttd need to do something special to use single pixels on a retina display?
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11:59<@Alberth>:O farm trams! /me likes
12:00<@peter1138>andythenorth, but where's Toby? :S
12:00<andythenorth>also 100% realistic :(
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12:01<andythenorth>no henrietta mind
12:02<@Alberth>"realistic" is not a problem on its own, you're free to make realistic things as long as it fits game play
12:02<andythenorth>oil and mining
12:03<@Alberth>ha, looks like a tram-only game could be fun :)
12:03<@peter1138>You mispelled train :D
12:03<andythenorth>they’re basically substituting for trucks before 1940
12:04<andythenorth>such realism
12:04<@Alberth>:D @ peter1138
12:04<andythenorth>what are ‘trains’ ?
12:05<@Alberth>trams with a split one-but-last wagon?
12:05<andythenorth>do they have cabeese?
12:05<andythenorth>are they BAD FEATURES?
12:05<andythenorth>ships should have cabeese
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12:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27016 trunk/src/spritecache.cpp (2014-10-14 16:09:21 UTC)
12:09<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r27004): Setting font-sprite data failed for some user(s).
12:12<@peter1138>Damn, no r27016 servers :(
12:13<LordAro>funny that
12:14<@Terkhen>LordAro: you are notalone, r27011 nightly gives me that same error
12:15<@Alberth>hi Terkhen, thanks for answering the scenario forum post
12:16<@Terkhen>hi, the new posts were brought to my attention after receiving both an email and a PM :)
12:18<LordAro>a Terkhen!
12:19<@Terkhen>I was going to test more height levels in order update the extended heightmaps proposal accordingly; I'll wait until the new nightly is generated
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12:20<@Alberth>I haven't tried generating higher mountains yet
12:20<LordAro>how is Terkhen?
12:22<andythenorth>more height levels ftw
12:22<@Alberth>it is?
12:22<andythenorth>I think so
12:22<andythenorth>not BAD FEATURE
12:23<andythenorth>terragenesis still sucks :)
12:23<andythenorth>but that’s not new
12:23<@Terkhen>LordAro: not much new :P
12:25<@Alberth>my settings are normally such that going straight up is not an option
12:26<@Alberth>as such, a higher hill doesn't make it more challenging :p
12:28<andythenorth>I am normally playing 256x256 so mhl doesn’t do much there either
12:30<andythenorth>reefer tram madness
12:35<@peter1138>Looks like a class... something or other.
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13:07<@peter1138>What a silly junction.
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13:10<andythenorth>the signals are in a silly place
13:10<@peter1138>That scaler...
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13:10<andythenorth>yes well
13:10<@peter1138>Yeah it predates pbs ;P
13:10<@peter1138>Er, yapf.
13:11<@peter1138>It predates path signals. That's the one.
13:11<andythenorth>bad typing
13:11<andythenorth>bridgeheads on tunnel entrances?
13:11<@peter1138>that's exclusive to ttdpatch
13:12*andythenorth considers moving to ttdp
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13:13<andythenorth>there’s some problem with building on tunnels?
13:13<andythenorth>something glitches, can’t remember what
13:13<andythenorth>someone had a screeny
13:15<@peter1138>dat colour
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13:18<@peter1138> < wut?
13:18<@peter1138> also
13:18<@peter1138>i shouldn't keep this stuff :p
13:19*andythenorth has about 1000 odd screenshots
13:19<andythenorth>mostly of stuff that got deleted later
13:19<@peter1138> < why did i do that?
13:19<andythenorth>because you could
13:20<@peter1138>I wonder what it'd look like with 2x ui
13:20<andythenorth>not awesome
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13:21<andythenorth>ugly grain hopper tram is ugly
13:21<andythenorth>or functional
13:21<andythenorth>can’t have them all looking the same, eh?
13:21<@peter1138> < someone with a thorough understanding of signals there
13:22<andythenorth>nothing wrong with that
13:22<andythenorth>highly efficient
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13:28<@Alberth>just put the percentage as number on the wagon, and add a vehicle effect for the type of cargo :p
13:33<andythenorth>intriguing idea
13:42<@peter1138>Hmm, those locks I did...
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13:45<Wolf01>hi hi
13:47<@Alberth>moin Wolf
13:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27017 /trunk/src/lang (8 files) (2014-10-14 17:48:51 UTC)
13:49<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:49<@DorpsGek>catalan - 11 changes by juanjo
13:49<@DorpsGek>english_US - 1 changes by Supercheese
13:49<@DorpsGek>german - 6 changes by planetmaker
13:49<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 14 changes by Brumi
13:49<@DorpsGek>italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
13:49<@DorpsGek>latin - 6 changes by Supercheese
13:49<@DorpsGek>spanish - 3 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
13:49<@DorpsGek>welsh - 8 changes by kazzie
13:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27018 trunk/src/tgp.cpp (2014-10-14 17:49:32 UTC)
13:49<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6141] (r27008): the higher amplitudes needed for higher maps were not ignored properly causing much smoother maps than wanted
13:51<andythenorth>what did you do the locks?
13:51<andythenorth>to *
13:55<@Rubidium>where are the doors?
13:55<NGC3982>Dead, or at least high.
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14:48<@Rubidium>ipads must be really unstable ;)
14:48<SpComb>background applications?
14:54<andythenorth>ipad irc is shit
14:54<andythenorth>totally unworkable
14:55<FLHerne>andythenorth: Better than Kindle IRC
14:55<FLHerne>Darn thing OOMs on me if I try to connect to more than a half-dozen channels
14:55<FLHerne>And all the flickering...
14:58<andythenorth>this tram turned out ok
14:59<andythenorth>peter1138: nice locks
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15:02<frosch123>Supercheese: just fixed latin in eints
15:03<Supercheese>frosch123: Many thanks, I will go test it
15:05<Supercheese>Excellent, working nicely
15:08<andythenorth>reefer tram
15:08<andythenorth>such realisms in Road Hog
15:09<Supercheese>Ice ice tram baby
15:10<NGC3982>That is so nice.
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16:38<@planetmaker>good evening
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16:40<@peter1138>Hmm, persistent storage for vehicles... why?
16:40<frosch123>more puzzle games
16:41<@peter1138> < wonder whatever happened to that
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16:42<frosch123>looks like it would look silly with default font size
16:42<@Rubidium>it got unapplied
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16:43<@peter1138>frosch123, yeah probably
16:43<frosch123>planetmaker: opensfx+msx have latin now :)
16:44<@Rubidium>... just requires a release to actually get them to the users :(
16:46<@peter1138> < lol, found it
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16:46<@peter1138>dec 2012 ...
16:47<@Rubidium>did I do all chunks?
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16:50<@Rubidium>peter1138: you committed that in r24853 ;)
16:51<@peter1138>Did I? Hmm!
16:52<@peter1138>So I did. And got it wrong evidently :)
16:53<@Rubidium>well... that's due to the way the widget tree itself is constructed; it's kinda obfuscated a bit
16:53<@peter1138>Yeah. Some days I think I actually understand it, then something else crops up :p
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17:19<@planetmaker>ui, so we should release them anew, too, frosch123 ? :)
17:20<frosch123>for sv i switched to postfix the version with the revision
17:20<frosch123>so the verson refers to the actual content, and the revision to the minor additions
17:21<frosch123>(assuming that translations are always a minor addition, since they only affect a part of the users)
17:21<frosch123>anyway, i think translations happen in bursts
17:22<frosch123>some new translator shows up, translates all projects, leaves again
17:22<@planetmaker>you mean like
17:22<frosch123>Silicon Valley 3-5389
17:22<frosch123>savegame version 3 - repo version/date 5389
17:23<frosch123>but yes, basically putting the date-version in the last position
17:23<frosch123>so, if current omsx is 0.3.1, it could become 0.3.5389
17:24<frosch123>but maybe that is also confusing :p
17:24<frosch123>i just picked it because i could code that into make bananas :p
17:25<@planetmaker>I think I'll keep the usual x.y.z for the base sets. They don't need a user-visible revision
17:26<@planetmaker>the version is fine, a tag can be used too for make bananas ;)
17:26<@planetmaker>but that doesn't work so nicely automatically, of course :)
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19:08<argoneus>good night train friends
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21:53<MTsPony>Rubidium: actually i was just messin with my wifi settings ;) i run an irc app in the background with background manager :p
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 15 00:00:53 2014