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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-16

---Logopened Thu Oct 16 00:00:54 2014
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03:11<supermop>contemplating ordering an out of print book from some website i've never heard of
03:11<supermop>has a copy for $54, whereas the only copy amazon has is $250+
03:11<Supercheese>Make sure to thouroughly Admiral Ackbar it
03:12<supermop>can't find any other good documentation of this building on line and i am getting hung up on some detail in rhino though
03:12<Supercheese>or should I say, de-Admiral Ackbar
03:12-!-Jinassi [~Jinassi@0001ec72.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
03:12<supermop>i could just guess as i will be squishing it about to fit into 1x2 tiles anyway....
03:13<supermop>Supercheese: would that just be yelling to no one in particular?
03:13<Supercheese>No, I am referring to the famous, "It's a trap!"
03:13<supermop>indeed
03:13<Supercheese>Make sure the site you are ordering from is not, in fact
03:13<supermop>who would i yell that at?
03:13<Supercheese>a trap
03:13<Supercheese>I've not made my Bad Joke quota for today :P
03:14<supermop>i can order the same copy from the same bookseller in germany via ebay rather than this other used book website.....
03:14<supermop>hmmm
03:14<supermop>http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sakura-Associates-Half-a-century-in-step-with-postwar-Japanese-modernism-Proce-/331346599980?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item4d25cbe02c
03:14<@peter1138>Buying a book about a building to make a 1x2 tile image?
03:14<supermop>vs:
03:14<@peter1138>o_O
03:15<supermop>http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=10398855437
03:15<supermop>well maybe some other buildings in the monograph would be worth drawing too?
03:16<supermop>this guy isn't well represented or know in the english literature, even though he's done several major buildings
03:16<supermop>could be a good source regardless
03:17<supermop>i hope there is a floor plan because i am getting stuck on a couple details of this building:
03:18<supermop>http://shinjuku.washington-hotels.jp/view-album/181
03:18<supermop>not enough picture on google or in my own that i took when i stayed in that hotel last yeaar
03:20<supermop>any of you guys in germany want to go look at it in the shop for me and take pictures of every page?
03:20<Jinassi>are you drawing the one with white fasade?
03:20<@planetmaker>moin
03:20<Jinassi>morning
03:20<supermop>the shinjuku washington hotel, the S-shaped building seen outside the window in lost in translation
03:21<supermop>took me forever just to deduce the circumference in precast panels of the rounded ends
03:21<@peter1138>...
03:22<@peter1138>Sounds like you getting a bit obsessive about details, to be honest.
03:22<Jinassi>upper floors are giving you hard time
03:22<supermop>ive drawn a rough plan traced from the google maps overhead
03:23<supermop>Jinassi: the top floor and mechanical/parapet is different slab-to slab height, as is ground floor and mezzanine,
03:24<@planetmaker>supermop, I can't say I knew that website before. Nor do I see how I could much easier look at the book than you
03:24<Jinassi>till when would you need the pics?
03:24<Jinassi>doable
03:24<@planetmaker>on the other hand... the site doesn't look fishy
03:25<supermop>only detail i found was that height is 96m, but no idea if that is just the hotel occupied floors, or up to parapet, or HVAC or what
03:25<supermop>well i have 30th birthday in a week so maybe i get a little present for myself
03:26<supermop>peter1138: i probably collect too many architecture books, but to be honest, the sprite is just a little push to buy a book I would have wanted to track down anyway
03:27<@peter1138>That makes more sense to me :)
03:27<supermop>i didn't realize that hotel was buy the office of this guy who I already admired until looking for better images from which to draw the sprite
03:27<supermop>*by
03:28*andythenorth _might_ have slightly bought this when doing HEQS http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oyX4X1B_hLsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=giant+earthmovers+an+illustrated+history&hl=en&sa=X&ei=k3M_VJXUBuyM7Ab-xYHADg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=giant%20earthmovers%20an%20illustrated%20history&f=false
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03:29<supermop>I did see the building in person in 2004 and was curious about it, so when i needed a cheap-ish hotel in shinjuku last year i made a point of booking there to see the inside!
03:29<andythenorth>Pikka: 3 weeks work in 2 hours done?
03:29<Pikka>absolutely
03:29<Pikka>went surprisingly smoothly
03:29<andythenorth>I don’t know why people spend so long doing stuff
03:29<andythenorth>always leave it until it’s too late
03:29<andythenorth>then you can’t waste any time
03:29<Pikka>basically, yes.
03:29<supermop>andythenorth: i would have bought that anyway - every home library need a copy of Giant Earthmovers
03:31<Supercheese>Nothing like a bit of Civil Engineering to keep things civil
03:31<supermop>Jinassi: i am in no hurry really - i can wait until it shows up from germany.
03:38<andythenorth>hmm
03:38*andythenorth needs to hap some offset jank
03:39<Pikka>froody
03:40<andythenorth>semi trucks
03:40<andythenorth>and their overlapping trailers
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04:00<Pikka>non-articulates are the answer ;)
04:00<Pikka>articulated trucks can look cool though.
04:00<andythenorth>meh
04:00<andythenorth>tmwftlb
04:01<andythenorth>doing it anyway
04:03<@peter1138>Isn't it easy to make them match up in / and \ views?
04:04<@peter1138>Treat the trailer as a shorter part with a bit overlapping the front. It will go a bit wonky around bends but it always will.
04:04<@peter1138>Anyone up for some realistic artic/trailer handling? :p
04:04<Jinassi>who is responsible for Kilimanjaro Unitised mining truck?
04:05<andythenorth>pikka
04:05<Jinassi><3 Pikka, that thing is a beast
04:05<andythenorth>peter1138: I’m doing the tractor as a shorter part, with the rear chassis stuck under the trailer
04:05<andythenorth>seems to work
04:05<andythenorth>just faff with where the sprites go in the spritesheet
04:06<andythenorth>‘standard’ positions don’t work when you’re faking vehicle length
04:06<@peter1138>andythenorth, yeah that would work too. I was thinking as a separate part the front would be too short... but it can't be separated, heh.
04:06<@peter1138>spritesheet?
04:06<@peter1138>How is their literal position in the spritesheet relevant? :S
04:07<andythenorth>because one set of offsets in the grf
04:07<@peter1138>no
04:07<andythenorth>eh?
04:07<supermop>Pikka: any particular pseudo-scale you are envisioning for your queenslanders?
04:07<@peter1138>you need one set of offsets per bounding box size, i think.
04:07<@peter1138>else you end up drawing too much
04:07<@peter1138>hmm, maybe autocrop works in that case
04:07<andythenorth>dunno :)
04:08<andythenorth>all spritesheets have identical bounding boxes
04:08<andythenorth>and vehicle is shoved left and down in most views
04:08<andythenorth>which works
04:08<andythenorth>except for \ views where length is cheated
04:08<@peter1138>:o
04:08<Pikka>not really thought about it yet, supermop. I'm thinking of scaling everything as the trains, though. So I think it's about 5px / m in normal zoom.
04:09<Pikka>of course, my houses will not necessarily be realistically dimensioned
04:09<Pikka>any more than the trains are
04:09<@peter1138>zmg scale
04:09<Pikka>no it doesn't, peter1138
04:10<@peter1138>k
04:10<supermop>yeah,
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04:11<supermop>terraces here vary a lot, but many of the medium-ish ones are close to 16 feet wide - so i was thinking of just making them all 5mx10m
04:11<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6731/road-hog.tar
04:11<andythenorth>^ Broadrock mining truck
04:12<andythenorth>mostly works
04:12<andythenorth>need to do a few more before I decide where to add the manual adjustment faff
04:13<Pikka>hmm
04:13<Pikka>5px/m isn't right
04:13<Pikka>more like 3px/m or something
04:13<supermop>as they must line up all together though, i need to decide whether that works out to 1x2 tiles, 0.5x1 tiles, or something weird like three terraces to two tiles width
04:13<andythenorth>Pikka: I think I once worked out that Squid is 4px/m
04:13<supermop>book expected between 29th and the 10th
04:13<andythenorth>by accident, not design
04:13<Pikka>accident is the best kind of design
04:14<andythenorth>just looked right :P
04:14<@peter1138>is that 4px at 1x or 4x zoom? :p
04:14<andythenorth>pixels or rounded rects?
04:14<andythenorth>retina pixels?
04:14<Pikka>voxels
04:15<andythenorth>good job we don’t use TV pixels
04:15<andythenorth>that was a fun lesson in getting things wrong
04:15<andythenorth>rectangular pixels, colour clamp, contrast clamp, overscan, bleed, PAL, NSTC
04:15<andythenorth>also anamorph
04:16<andythenorth>the lessons we learn
04:16<andythenorth>whereas in print there’s only bleed, crop, overprint, CMYK, ink density
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04:16<supermop>ill either model the regular houses as 1.5x the width of whatever the terraces are, or terraces as 2/3 whatever the houses are
04:17<andythenorth>someone try that mining truck and tell me how bad it is
04:17<andythenorth>some of the angles have hokey distance on the tractor
04:18<supermop>melb is all about the lanes and laneways though so ill chop a little bit of space off the reach of each lot to texture as bluestone cobbles
04:18<supermop>*rear not reach
04:18<supermop>andythenorth: does road hog supplant heqs?
04:19<argoneus>good morning train friends
04:22<supermop>good evening
04:37<andythenorth>supermop: RH doesn’t exclude HEQS
04:37<andythenorth>but it does include the more useful vehicle types from HEQS
04:37<andythenorth>HEQS is dead
04:37<andythenorth>or done
04:38<andythenorth>whichever
04:38<argoneus>what is RH?
04:38<andythenorth>road hog
04:38<argoneus>is that some new newgrf
04:38<argoneus>?
04:39<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=70241
04:40<argoneus>the fuck am I reading
04:41<argoneus>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=114946
04:41<argoneus>hahahaha
04:50<andythenorth>boats
04:53<supermop>i am just now realizing that something called train fever exists
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04:54<Jinassi>Heard of A-train 9 then? :)
04:54<argoneus>spoilers: its shit
04:57<supermop>i heard of a-train the box i saw in a computer store sometime circa 1995
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05:13<supermop>Pikka: are you thinking slightly cartoonish proportions for houses? i didn't consider that for houses but have been for some commission home blocks
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05:29<supermop>damn i will not be able to afford keeping this up:
05:29<supermop>http://www.amazon.com/New-houses-old-Victoria-1938-1988/dp/0724147977
05:30<supermop>maybe out of print academic books is not the ideal reference source for drawing little toy houses
05:30<@peter1138>heh
05:30<supermop>i dont think that one really even has drawings
05:31<supermop>i think ill go loiter around with a tape measure
05:38<argoneus>oh wow
05:38<argoneus>the original transport tycoon deluxe cd is worth $100 on ebay
05:38<@peter1138>o_O
05:38<supermop>what about my original TTO?
05:38<@peter1138>i got mine for £5 years ago
05:38<supermop>better monorail
05:38<@peter1138>Came with RCT as well
05:39<argoneus>no wait
05:39<argoneus>only $30
05:39<@peter1138>Hmm, and RRT2
05:39<@peter1138>And I have TTO from years ago, although I don't know where that went :S
05:39<argoneus>I never got into railroad tycoon for some reason
05:39<argoneus>the game just seemed weird
05:40<argoneus>and my english wasn't that good, and iirc there was a lot of reading
05:40<argoneus>don't remember
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05:46<supermop>going to play some mp
05:47<argoneus>supermp
05:47<argoneus>peter1138: what is TTO?
05:48<@peter1138>TT
05:48<argoneus>ah
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05:50<@peter1138>http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hasbro-Tycoon-Collection-3-pack/dp/B00004UBQ0
05:50<@peter1138>I got my TTD in that :)
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05:51<supermop>anyone want to join? this server is just me so far
05:52<@peter1138>What version?
05:52<argoneus>join my server supermop
05:52<argoneus>:D
05:52<argoneus>it's 24/7 for me and my friends :<
05:53<supermop>1.4.3
05:53<@peter1138>Oh
05:53<supermop>argoneus: what newgrfs?
05:53<@peter1138>Sorry but I need the Old-Peoples-Special-Edition.
05:53<@peter1138>(r27004+)
05:53-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD49E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
05:53<argoneus>ehhh, don't remember supermop
05:53<argoneus>check #ufeff server in the list
05:53<supermop>i didn't know if nightlies would be on servers?
05:53<argoneus>there's quite a few
05:54<argoneus>I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to use half of them, since I took them from ottdcoop
05:54<@peter1138>If it's in that pack then yes.
05:54<supermop>what version argoneus?
05:54<argoneus>1.4.3
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05:55<argoneus>we don't really need features from the latest nightlies, just like play game
05:55<@peter1138>Of course, because they're not on bananas, I cba to download them manually :p
05:56<@peter1138>Hmm, alpinist.
05:56<andythenorth>wtf is alpinist?
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>steep mountains
05:57<@peter1138>a mountaineer who climbs in medium-sized glaciated mountain areas such as the Alps
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>really needs cliffs
05:57<supermop>andythenorth: i like how every company to ever build a machine shop has managed to get the local council to name their street after james watt
05:57<@peter1138>Needs a better name, tbh.
05:57<andythenorth>afaict, alpinist should be renamed ‘weird inverted pyramids'
05:58<argoneus>mountaineer
05:58<andythenorth>it’s not as mountainy as mountainous
05:59<@peter1138>It's higher.
05:59<@peter1138>I guess maybe smooth and large maps works better with these new height levels, than rough & small.
06:00<andythenorth>rough seemed to be worse than smooth when I hit newgame a lot
06:00<@peter1138>Yeah, rough tis all about the wierd pyramids. Smooth is better.
06:00<andythenorth>variety distribution remains mystifying
06:00<@peter1138>s/mystifying/shit/
06:00<andythenorth>isn’t it lies?
06:00<andythenorth>I read the code once or twice
06:01<andythenorth>forgotten it
06:01<@peter1138>No, but it doesn't guarantee you'll get at least some of what you asked for.
06:01*andythenorth wonders how terrain generators work
06:01<andythenorth>if I try to write one, will probably be worse than current
06:01<@peter1138>Problem is that VD might select an area of sea to be mountains.
06:01<@peter1138>And then a mountainous area to be low.
06:02<@peter1138>And then you end up with flat and water...
06:02<@peter1138>Sometimes it ends up nice, most often not.
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't seen such extremes
06:03<@peter1138>Maybe it needs to select areas based on some algorithm, rather than just being random.
06:03<andythenorth>does TGP use perlin noise?
06:03<@peter1138>And then maybe have some ratios as to how much should be high / low.
06:03<@peter1138>Yes.
06:03<@peter1138>It's a weird awkward version of the algorithm though, designed to be a bit faster.
06:04<andythenorth>is diamond square better for landscapes? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond-square_algorithm
06:05<andythenorth>DS seems to produce weird square ridges
06:05<andythenorth>I dunno, perlin noise doesn’t look like landscape to me
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06:10<andythenorth>but an andythenorth terrain generator isn’t going to be better than some that have been around 30 years :(
06:10<argoneus>how can you be sure
06:10<argoneus>they didn't think
06:10<argoneus>"well people have done this in 17th century, they probably worked it out in these 300 years"
06:11<@peter1138>http://davidson16807.github.io/tectonics.js/
06:11<andythenorth>I was considering bundling some plates together
06:11<@peter1138>Convert that to C++...
06:12<andythenorth>make mountains
06:12<andythenorth>then flow water
06:12<@peter1138>Run a few... okay, lots... of iterators. See what happens.
06:12<andythenorth>done
06:12<andythenorth>hey that’s quite fun :)
06:13<@peter1138>*iterations
06:15<@peter1138>Run until 4.54 billion years? heh
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>somehow, the continents are all flat...
06:30<@peter1138>Hmm
06:31<@peter1138>Flat or flat relative to the sphere size?
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>the "elevation" map shows hardly any non-white spots
06:39<@peter1138>http://www.float4x4.net/index.php/2010/06/generating-realistic-and-playable-terrain-height-maps/
06:40<@peter1138>"realistic"
06:40<@peter1138>Not really, just adds a few bits. Still doesn't really look like landscape.
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06:40<Pikka>supermop, I honestly have no idea. I'll think about it when I get there. :)
06:40<@peter1138>(But does have Cliff Richards!)
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06:45<andythenorth>interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_landscape
06:45<andythenorth>landscapes aren’t very fractal
06:46<andythenorth>I dunno
06:46<andythenorth>kind of wondering what landscapes are fun to play in the game?
06:47<andythenorth>given that we only have one type of slope, ‘realism’ is a poor starting point :P
06:47<V453000>I still feel like making things in -some- scale to fit together is a good idea Pikka :P
06:48<V453000>aka if you have 580 for a tile now, I would just continue with it
06:48<V453000>obviously 10x10m is a lot more sensible but meh :P
06:50<Pikka>obviously V, but how big is a house?
06:50<Pikka>is it 10m long, or 20m long, or...?
06:51<V453000>like tall?
06:51<V453000>10x10 would be to fit one full tile, 20x20 for 2x2 :) tall can vary very much I guess
06:58<Pikka>"it would fit one full tile" isn't a scale :P
06:58<supermop>a 10m sq house is a bit small for queensland if there is any yard
07:01<andythenorth>we’re doing things to scale? :o
07:01<andythenorth>fml
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07:03<@peter1138>Yeah...
07:03<@peter1138>Approximately to scale within the same feature is not bad though.
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07:05<V453000>it is very much a scale Pikka
07:05<V453000>the only scale you need to care about in a model
07:05<V453000>how large is a tile
07:05<V453000>I am not saying door of the house should be 2.20 tall and 1m wide
07:05<V453000>that is obviously scaled with the building
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07:11<supermop>V453000: im wanting to reuse building elements as much as possible so so long as i pick one for all of the houses should be fine
07:11<V453000>sure
07:12<V453000>I re-use many of my things like cargoes/machinery/yeti dudes/stuff all of the time
07:12<V453000>all I can say is I use 10x10m for one tile
07:12<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/yeti/wiki/Tech
07:14<@peter1138>Shame you don't make separate groundsprites.
07:14<V453000>I do ,I just have them larger and cut off
07:14<V453000>for precise edges
07:14<@peter1138>No, all your industries are drawn above a grass groundsprite.
07:15<V453000>ah that
07:15<@planetmaker>yes, everything's on grass in yeti
07:15<@planetmaker>but should be on separate ground sprites taylored for the specific industry
07:15<@planetmaker>like the ground finger print of it
07:15<V453000>xd
07:15<V453000>you explicitly told me not to mess with the ground sprite
07:15<@peter1138>It doesn't make a lot of difference tbh
07:16<@peter1138>But it makes X view not so good.
07:16<@planetmaker>:) I told you to add the finger print on top of the natural ground
07:16<V453000>mhm
07:16<@peter1138>Also all your industries have a fixed layout, which is rather bland.
07:16<@planetmaker>but you anyway provide your own grass. So that advice is pointless
07:16<@peter1138>The default industries have variations in layout.
07:16<V453000>variations dont really work with complex graphics
07:16<@peter1138>Sure
07:17<V453000>sure there could theoretically be addons
07:17<@peter1138>You'd need to redesign them to keep elements to a single tile. Big change.
07:17<V453000>rather impossible for majority :)
07:18<V453000>but yeah there can be some extra parts which could be randomly added on the sides
07:18<@planetmaker>it need not be single-tile elements, could also be 1x2, 1x3, 2x2 or whatever. Which could be re-arranged for different layouts. Like default factory or iron works
07:18<@peter1138>Not impossible. It's definitely something you'd do at initial design time rather than trying to shoehorn what you've got already to git.
07:18<V453000>"randomly" :)
07:18<V453000>impossible if you consider animations which go between many tiles
07:19<@planetmaker>not randomly. But having modules makes it easy to randomly select one of different layouts. without creating new graphics it's then possible to create different layouts
07:19<V453000>I know
07:19<@planetmaker>yeah, it needs consideration at design stage. Not now where it's done
07:19<V453000>I just chose to do it this way, consistency is at least not confusing
07:21<@peter1138>The default iron-ore mine is an odd one. Doesn't even use non-ground sprites, heh.
07:21<@peter1138>(and fixed layout of course)
07:21<V453000>regardless, as I said I can still add modules to the 4x4, just keeping it as a core
07:21<V453000>not that I intend to (atm)
07:22<@peter1138>coal mines have nice variations
07:22<@planetmaker>yes. First get v1 finished. Making modular designs subsequently for some industries is possible at any stage
07:23<@planetmaker>for instance the farm looks like it can be well modularized
07:23<V453000>theoretically, yes :)
07:24<V453000>I think I will keep modularity for eventual base industries or some other industry grf :P
07:24<@peter1138>planetmaker, the pens are not tile-aligned, so... not currently.
07:24<V453000>that is why theoretically :)
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07:28<V453000>regardless, in the very soon time I will be adding more animations to all industries, now that I have yeti dudes prepared :) which could make it even more impossible to make it modular
07:30<argoneus>"more impossible" grinds my ears more than "more optimal"
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07:31<V453000>is awesome
07:35<argoneus>you forgot a /me there
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07:38<V453000>no
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07:56<Quatroking>hi
07:57<Quatroking>How heavy is openttd on the GPU?
07:57<Quatroking>my laptop has a dead nvidia gpu and now runs off the i5 embedded intel gpu but I'm getting a pretty awful framerate
07:59<supermop>argoneus: i cant find two of those newgrfs
07:59<Quatroking>cpu is an i5 460m at 2.5GHZ, laptop has 4gb ram
08:00<argoneus>supermop: they are in the openttdcoop pack
08:01<argoneus>I made my own pack which I redistribute to my friends, but I probably can't share that openly
08:02<Quatroking>also, quick question, is it possible for two players on a LAN to play as one company
08:03<argoneus>Quatroking: yes
08:03<argoneus>wait
08:04<argoneus>do you mean two people on your own LAN
08:04<argoneus>or two people from the same IP connecting to a server?
08:07<Quatroking>two machines on the lan, playing as one company
08:07<Quatroking>I'm hoping to be able to use both my desktop and laptop at the same time to create a 3-monitor setup and be really cool
08:08<Taede>2 clients can be in the same company yes, one just needs to host a multiplayer game
08:08<Quatroking>nice
08:08<Taede>the 2nd machine can then simply join the company
08:08<Quatroking>using synergy to share the mouse
08:08<Taede>as for gpu, openttd doesnt really use it that much
08:08<Taede>its pretty much all cpu
08:22<supermop>night
08:23<argoneus>nn
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08:40<Quatroking>Taede, and an i5 460m, 2 cores 4 threads at 2.5ghz should be just fine right
08:45<V453000>only 1 core matters
08:45<V453000>it should be ok for small-normal games
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08:54<fjb>Moin
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09:07<@peter1138>ttp://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/yeoldescaler.png
09:07<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/yeoldescaler.png
09:07<@peter1138>:o
09:08<V453000>I remember seeing that somewhere :D
09:09<V453000>or something similar
09:09<@peter1138>That was version 1 of my EZ. Apparently I did a rewrite at some point which I forgot about.
09:09<@peter1138>So that is rewritten to work with current code.
09:09<@peter1138>Works quite well, but it gives a very stylized look.
09:10<V453000>yez
09:10<__ln__>peter1138: does that picture imply that britain will have switched to right-hand-side traffic by 2443?
09:11<@peter1138>If you wish.
09:16<SpComb>does openttd now support subpixel font hinting?
09:17<@peter1138>No.
09:18<argoneus>does openttd now support directx 12?
09:18<@peter1138>http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/kopf/pixelart/supplementary/comparison_bicubic.html
09:18<@peter1138>Seems an interesting algorithm.
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09:58<@peter1138>Heh, OpenGFX still has the yellow-flashing bug in places...
09:59<@peter1138>In sprite 1553
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10:31<@peter1138>Hmm, deserts have a maximum height?
10:32<@peter1138>Hmm, this is weird.
10:33<@peter1138>There's some kind of ridge at level 43.
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10:34<andythenorth>not level 42
10:34<andythenorth>shame
10:34<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ridge.png
10:35<@peter1138>and then... the rain forests?
10:35<andythenorth>oh how cute
10:35<V453000>seen that too
10:35<andythenorth>that’s awesome, could build routes along the terraces
10:35<V453000>I have more of a problem with the ultra "smooth" hill
10:36<V453000>it just goes all the way up, uniformly
10:36<andythenorth>afaict, you don’t normally get terraces
10:36<V453000>yeah, uniform terraces
10:36<V453000>you do
10:36<V453000>either terraces or straight up
10:36<V453000>but no stops in it
10:36<andythenorth>oh
10:36<andythenorth>I usually just get straight up
10:36<V453000>once mountain starts, it just goes up
10:36<andythenorth>straight up is boring
10:36<V453000>well yeah that is even worse
10:36<V453000>but bothe are uniform and ugly
10:36<andythenorth>can’t build roads on straight up
10:37<andythenorth>I like it
10:38<andythenorth>just needs some rivers cutting in
10:38<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/YETI/industry_5X_f0000.png your argument is invalid
10:38<@peter1138>that is actually scary
10:38<andythenorth>definitely raising the gam
10:38<andythenorth>e
10:39<andythenorth>yeti dudes need more protective gear
10:39<V453000>deliver bdmt and you shall be rewarded with food
10:39<V453000>proper port industry
10:39<V453000>hm :D maybe
10:39<@peter1138>Do I want to know what the slug is for?
10:40<V453000>it is the boss
10:40<andythenorth>I decided I didn’t want to know
10:40<V453000>it is fed BDMT
10:40<andythenorth>much better to not know
10:40<V453000>now you know
10:41<V453000>it is andythenorth fault
10:41<V453000>he made ports first
10:41<andythenorth>someone had to
10:41<andythenorth>it needed to happen
10:41<V453000>no, guilty
10:41<andythenorth>ports are the saviour of the supplies shit
10:41<V453000>you caused this
10:42<V453000>ports are the saviour of any missing link in the system :D
10:42<andythenorth>means you don’t have to have loads of stupid tedious industries and cargos
10:43<V453000>well not really, the problem usually is that you simply dont have a valid excuse for transforming cargo A into cargo B
10:43<V453000>voila, you TRADE it
10:43<V453000>FIRS clearly proves "have loads of industries and cargoes" to the max :P
10:46<andythenorth>I hate FIRS
10:46<V453000>that isnt necessary, FIRS is nice too
10:47<andythenorth>Full FIRS is the dumbest thing I’ve ever done
10:47<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE
10:47<V453000>economiez fix dat?
10:47<andythenorth>yes
10:47<andythenorth>totally
10:49<argoneus>andythenorth: you made FIRS?
10:49<V453000>XD
10:49<andythenorth>V453000 did it
10:49*argoneus cracks knuckles
10:49<argoneus>which one of you made FIRS?
10:49<andythenorth>blame V453000
10:49<V453000>I fucking didnt
10:50<andythenorth>wasn’t me
10:50<V453000>I was just bitching about the bad features until I made my own industry set :P
10:50<V453000>[yeti)
10:50*argoneus looks at andythenorth
10:50<V453000>I WIN
10:50<argoneus>he would probably win
10:50<argoneus>I'm like a 12 year old compared to him probably
10:50<argoneus>:(
10:51<V453000>wat
10:51<argoneus>wat
10:51*andythenorth is waiting it out
10:51<argoneus>andythenorth: anyway
10:51<argoneus>you made FIRS?
10:52<andythenorth>not all on my own
10:52<V453000>fuck just read the firs readme XD
10:52<argoneus>I'm at work :()
10:52<andythenorth>there’s a readme?
10:52<V453000>dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs
10:52<V453000>idk, description?
10:52<V453000>webdocs?: P
10:52<andythenorth>oh that readme sucks
10:53<andythenorth>stupid readme http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/readme.txt
10:53<V453000>whites a million lines of code
10:53<V453000>doesnt write a good readme
10:53<V453000>GG
10:53<andythenorth>docs are better http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html
10:53<argoneus>GG
10:53<V453000>no NUTS in known to be compatible
10:53<argoneus>this web 2.0
10:53<V453000>only has ALL of the fucking FIRS cargo sprites
10:53<argoneus>my eyes are melting
10:53<V453000> /cry
10:54<andythenorth>V453000: provide a patch
10:54<V453000>xd
10:54<argoneus>it doesn't say who did it
10:54<andythenorth>it was V453000
10:54<V453000>FIRS License ------------ FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Full industry replacement set for OpenTTD Copyright (C) 2009-2011 andythenorth, and others.
10:54<andythenorth>fuck
10:54<andythenorth>busted
10:54<andythenorth>who wrote that
10:55<argoneus>does others mean V453000
10:59<andythenorth>nah
11:02<@planetmaker>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxmoxerzq
11:04<@peter1138>Nutzer?
11:06<V453000>waz dat
11:06<@peter1138>A list of authors.
11:06<@peter1138>Or at least, committers.
11:06<V453000>:d
11:08<@planetmaker>what peter1138 says. LC_ALL=de
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11:31<@peter1138>dbg: [misc] /home/petern/src/openttd-trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:2052: Backupped value was not restored!
11:31<@peter1138>What is that?
11:33<@Alberth>interesting question :)
11:34<@peter1138>Also, "Backed up"
11:34<@peter1138>Hmm, actually I cancelled world gen, might've been because of that.
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11:35<@Alberth>Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, OWNER_NONE, FILE_LINE); macro magic, it seems
11:36<@peter1138>C++ can be amazing.
11:36<@peter1138>That looks like template magic, not macro magic.
11:36<@Alberth>fair enough :)
11:37<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/yeoldescaler.png
11:37<@peter1138>Anyone think it's worth having that as an option?
11:37<@peter1138>Personally I think it makes the UI nicer, but not so keen on the viewport though.
11:38<@Alberth>trying to recreate the 640x480 experience?
11:38<@peter1138>Nah, that's already in place :-)
11:39<andythenorth>peter1138: it’s kind of fun
11:40<andythenorth>boggles my eyes a bit
11:40<V453000>Alberth: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/YETI/industry_5X_f0000.png
11:40<V453000>including random crates (tm)
11:42<@peter1138>Amusingly, it is possible to make it only apply to text...
11:43<andythenorth>ha
11:44<@peter1138>But I can't distinguish between viewport and UI sprites though.
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11:45<@Alberth>woooo, and I thought YETIs were big already :D
11:46<V453000>:)
11:46<V453000>actually making one fit in the car was not as easy as I expected too XD
11:47<@Alberth>workers must work hard to keep the harbour so clean :)
11:47<liq3>V453000: 5X? ;o
11:47<V453000>5X.
11:47<V453000>they do Alberth
11:47<@peter1138>Yeah, 4x zoom wasn't enough ;)
11:48<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6663/YETIscheme08-05.png the missing 5X :P
11:48<liq3>i'm suddenly confused why you'd want to use the 5X
11:48<V453000>why so?
11:48<liq3>can just reroute trains from BDMT to food.
11:48<V453000>and you will produce bdmt how :)
11:48<liq3>what I mean is
11:49<liq3>have 1 YETI yard per BDMT primary, and then 10 YETI yards per Food primary.
11:49<liq3>can just move around what primaries service what primary.
11:49<liq3>erm, what Yards*
11:49<@peter1138>V453000, will you fix all the sprite offsets?
11:49<V453000>it wont be so simple in the future
11:49<V453000>yes now there isnt much point
11:49<liq3>I hope so :P
11:49<@peter1138>As industries sort of float above their tiles at the moment.
11:49<V453000>peter1138: there is only one template so kind of yes
11:49<liq3>altho, if you have 10x as much food as BDMT in one factory...
11:49<V453000>as I said, 0.1.0 fixes offsets
11:50<liq3>V453000: how are you going to make it more complicated?
11:50<V453000>easily
11:50<V453000>making non-linear worker efficiency causes you to use multiple industries as a preference
11:50<@peter1138>-580 works better than -584 :)
11:50<V453000>in case you dont have enough farms around you you can do trading
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11:51<andythenorth>make it much more complicated
11:51<V453000>I figured something like moving 3px left and 7 px down might work just fine
11:51<V453000>complicated isnt complicated andy :P
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11:51<liq3>That'd be so different to stock industries. Wow.
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11:51<liq3>Having to use multiple secondaries and even primaries.
11:51<@Alberth>ah, it's like a port in FIRS
11:52<V453000>yeah Alberth
11:52<V453000>liq3: multiple secondaries probably not
11:52<V453000>well, I call farms primaries in YETI
11:52<liq3>yeh same
11:52<V453000>those should benefit from being multiple
11:52<@peter1138>Hmm, the bounding boxes are all screwy too :(
11:52<andythenorth>we should just make everything ports
11:52<liq3>V453000: so still just one secondary per type?
11:52<andythenorth>primaries are ports really
11:52<V453000>yeah liq3
11:52<andythenorth>V453000: how about a no-secondaries economy?
11:53<andythenorth>also no sinks
11:53<andythenorth>o_O
11:53<V453000>andythenorth: go do it? :d
11:53<V453000>make an endless chain
11:53<V453000>everything produces
11:53<andythenorth>coal -> farm
11:53<liq3>andythenorth: YETI with the changes V453000 is talking about would almost be that anyway. :P
11:53<andythenorth>grain -> cow farm
11:53<andythenorth>cow farm -> coal mine
11:53<V453000>yes
11:53<V453000>just do it
11:53<V453000>:D
11:54<V453000>make the loop LONG with all firs industries
11:54<andythenorth>
11:54<V453000>easy
11:54<V453000>call the economy snake
11:54<@Alberth>you'd think a giant slug would eat all food :)
11:54<andythenorth>slugs eat bricks
11:54<andythenorth>and cement
11:54<V453000>no it eats building materials Alberth :)
11:54<V453000>see even andythenorth knows
11:54<@Alberth>ah, missed that
11:54<V453000>served with 4 pickles
11:54<@Alberth>not sure I want to meet your slugs :)
11:55<@Alberth>before you know, it would eat my house :)
11:55<liq3>So the port Food is dead slugs? :P
11:55<V453000>no, fish
11:55<@Alberth>nah, fish
11:55<liq3>,...where do the fish come from? XD
11:55<V453000>also, I might create 32bppEZ slugs for NUTS now
11:55<V453000>liq3: hunted on the left :)
11:55<@Alberth>liq3: noticed the capture device at the left?
11:55<liq3>...so why is there a giant slug there? XD
11:56<@Alberth>carefully dried so it doesn't drip on the harbour concrete
11:56<V453000>eats building materials, rewards you for them with food
11:56<liq3>how does the slug make food? o.o
11:56<liq3>lol
11:56<V453000>he has minions
11:56<V453000>slug is just the baws
11:56<@Alberth>liq3: otherwise, you'd be swamped in bricks and cement!
11:56<liq3>:P
11:56<V453000>yetis obey the slug
11:57<V453000>only the slug
11:57<@Alberth>the harbour would sink!
11:57<V453000>NO
11:57<@Alberth>I mean if the slug didn't eat the bricks and cement
11:57<liq3>V453000: how does the minions get food? ;o
11:57<V453000>aha
11:57<V453000>omfg they catch fish liq3 :D
11:57<V453000>it is a marine industry in water
11:57<liq3>LOL
11:57<V453000>there is fish around
11:57<liq3>so are the minions slugs too?
11:58<V453000>wat, minions are yeti dudz
11:58<liq3>so confused :s
11:58<@Alberth>mission succeeded V :)
11:59<liq3>So, we're basically paying the slug boss in slug food (BDMT), and he gives us fish for it? (yeti Food)
11:59<V453000>fuck yes
11:59<V453000>:)
11:59<liq3>lol.
11:59<@Alberth>how big is the industry?
12:00<V453000>4x8 without 2 corners
12:00<@Alberth>lot of space :)
12:00<V453000>there is space in water :)
12:00<@Alberth>but plenty of water :)
12:01<V453000>I am considering how far it should want to be from the coast
12:02<V453000>anyway, relocating from work to home
12:02<V453000>brb :)
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12:36<andythenorth>where is cat?
12:36<@Alberth>in he hat
12:36<@Alberth>*the
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12:51<V453000>(:
12:54<@Alberth>not good?
12:56<frosch123>where do yetis go when it rains?
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13:15<frosch123>17:34:55 <@peter1138> Hmm, actually I cancelled world gen, might've been because of that. <- yes, it can happen when aborting world gen, nothing to worry about
13:17<V453000>frosch123: to them caves and igloos
13:19<andythenorth>hmm
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13:19<andythenorth>caves
13:19<frosch123>cave industries producing bats?
13:20<frosch123>there should be an animal based industry set, just to make V draw more animal transporters
13:24<V453000>V doesnt DRAW anymore :)
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13:29<frosch123>so you are redoing nuts as rendered 32bpp ez?
13:30<frosch123>32bpp would allow more rainbowy trains
13:31<frosch123>but it may need a grf parameter: allow trains to be on drugs
13:31<V453000>it is likely yes
13:32<andythenorth>hmm
13:33<andythenorth>‘fixing’ vehicle positions by moving the vehicle in the spritesheet
13:33<andythenorth>never ends well
13:33<frosch123>textual stuff is always better for changes :)
13:33-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host156-13-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:34<@Alberth>hi hi Wolf01
13:34<andythenorth>also it suggests string
13:34<Wolf01>hello o/
13:34<@Alberth>autodetect the edge of the vehicle?
13:34<andythenorth>:P
13:35<andythenorth>this is to position articulated trucks correctly
13:35<andythenorth>which requires some janky finx
13:35<andythenorth>fix *
13:35<@Alberth>finxes sound interesting too :)
13:36<andythenorth>yup
13:36<andythenorth>http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/janky#English
13:37<V453000>sooo how do I create a recolour mask for vehicles?
13:37<V453000>like if I have a 32bpp slug sprite
13:37<V453000>how do I make it recolourable?
13:38<andythenorth>do it at render time :P
13:38<frosch123>V453000: you need two sprites
13:38<frosch123>one 32bpp, one 8bpp
13:38<V453000>right
13:38<frosch123>the 8bpp needs to be transparent-blue whenever only the 32bpp shall be visible
13:39<frosch123>the 8bpp needs to use recolourable colours where recolouring shall occur
13:39<V453000>hm
13:39<frosch123>the recoloured pixels will use the recolouring schema from the 8bpp image, and then brightness from the 32bpp
13:39<V453000>hm
13:39<V453000>right
13:39<V453000>so basically just a 8bpp CCblue or CCgreen sprite
13:39<V453000>hm
13:39<frosch123>in the easiest case you use greyscale in the 32bpp, and a single fixed colour in the 8bpp
13:40<V453000>hm
13:40<frosch123>but for company colours it can become trickier
13:40<frosch123>the company colour gradients do not only differ by brightnes, but also by saturation and hue
13:41<V453000>:o wat
13:41<V453000>ah
13:41<V453000>hm
13:41<frosch123>so, to make it look good you need to use more than 1 company colour in the 8bpp
13:41<frosch123>and do some trickery to make the colour transitions look intended
13:41<V453000>that sounds like brutally tedious process to get render into this mask
13:42<frosch123>isn't it the same as yeti animations?
13:42<andythenorth>done truck is done
13:42<andythenorth>biab
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13:42<frosch123>a basic sprite with the recoloured parts in greyscale
13:42<V453000>yeti animations arent 8bpp
13:42<V453000>yeah that is the 32bpp part
13:43<frosch123>one sprite with only the recoloured parts in greyscale which is then post-processed into a single 8bpp colour
13:43<V453000>but how do I get the 8bpp thing
13:43<V453000>hm
13:43<V453000>but post processed how XD
13:43<frosch123>i do no now your tools :p
13:43<frosch123>+k
13:43<frosch123>+t
13:44<V453000>I guess some form of colour correction from greyscale and then trying to apply the palette is the only option I have
13:44<@Alberth>wasn't there some utility that tried matching things back onto the 8bpp palette?
13:45<@Alberth>gimp can probably also do it when converting from 32bpp to indexed
13:45<@Alberth>never tried that though
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27021 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt romanian.txt) (2014-10-16 17:45:44 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<V453000>well photoshop tries to palletize the colour so they are close too
13:45<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 20 changes by telanus
13:45<@DorpsGek>romanian - 17 changes by kitguyy
13:46<V453000>but no way to tell it to make CCblue not normal blue
13:46<V453000>unless I had palette with only that colour yeah
13:46<frosch123>you could make it black and white
13:46<frosch123>white for transparent, black for cc
13:47<frosch123>and then convert it to a 8bpp palette, which has white in 0, black in the cc spot, and grey everywhere else
13:47<V453000>but the black is just one colour without any shades?
13:47<frosch123>and then force the ttd palette with a different tool which does not colour-match
13:48<frosch123>V453000: as said, multiple shades won't work anyway for smooth transitions. i would think you rather use them by rendering different parts
13:49<V453000>hm
13:49<frosch123>i.e. 32bpp base sprite + 1 sprite with stuff in cc shade 1 + 1 sprite with stuff in cc shade 2 + ....
13:49<V453000>bbbut how do I create 2 different sprites with 1 shade each XD
13:49<V453000>hm
13:49<frosch123>i also think we can create some custom post-processing tool
13:49<frosch123>replacing a signle colour with a fixed 8bpp colour "shouldn't be that hard"
13:49<@Alberth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/tiq this one
13:50<frosch123>hmm, or is it "can't be that hard"?
13:50<frosch123>Alberth: that's not what we need
13:50<frosch123>that tool converts 32bpp to the matching colours
13:50<@Alberth>should/cant: depends on how sure you are :)
13:50<frosch123>we want it to convert to a specific unrelated colour
13:51<frosch123>Alberth: i tried to quote a forum meme, but failed :p
13:51<V453000>hm
13:52<V453000>I will probably try something at some point but it sounds like a lot of messing around with stuff
13:52<frosch123>if we do a custom tool, we can invent a custom schema to specify company colours :p
13:52<V453000>that would be awesome, e.g. from greyscale
13:52<@Alberth>sounds not too difficult with PIL
13:53<frosch123>greyscale would be useless
13:53<V453000>not if you use it to create one CC
13:53<V453000>and another greyscale file to create the other
13:53<frosch123>ah, so you mean a tool that converts transparent/non-transparent to a specific cc shade?
13:54<V453000>no I thought greyscale into scale of CC shades
13:54<frosch123>what would be the use of that?
13:55<frosch123>how would you create the greyscale?
13:55<V453000>you render that easily
13:55<V453000>or postproduce
13:55<frosch123>then it's wrong
13:55<V453000>creating greyscale picture is easy
13:55<frosch123>you brightness of the 32bpp is already applied
13:55<frosch123>so if you convert greyscale to cc, you apply the brightness twice
13:55<V453000>I see
13:55<V453000>sooo
13:55<V453000>the only thing I need is one shade mask?
13:56<frosch123>for the first test case yes,
13:56<V453000>like saying "this area is CC" ?
13:56<frosch123>but you will discover that it looks crap :p
13:56<V453000>right :D
13:56<frosch123>a single shade is not enough to make for a difference in yellow/orange/brown/cream
13:57<frosch123>i guess it would work if you use cc only in few places
13:57<V453000>-- you have to apply brightness multiple times? XD
13:57<frosch123>i.e. when not colouring big shapes of the vehicle in cc
13:57<frosch123>V453000: i think more of: use cc 1 on the door, use cc 2 on the windows, use cc 3 on the roof
13:58<frosch123>i.e. using different cc shades in different places
13:58<frosch123>but not for smooth transitions
13:58<V453000>slug has no doors :P
13:58<frosch123>well, then separate stripes
13:59<frosch123>whatever, using multiple cc shades will always result in contours between them
13:59<V453000>right
13:59<frosch123>so they must be used in a way, so that the contours are right
14:00<V453000>I guess I will just try and see what can I do
14:01<frosch123>yeah, a test vehicle would be nice :)
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14:05<V453000>yeah, I even have the slug model
14:05<V453000>so it is just about setting up the infrastructure to get it into the game
14:06<andythenorth>someone test this truck then
14:06<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/road-hog/push/LATEST/
14:06<andythenorth>it was loads of yak-shaving to get it done
14:06-!-SHOTbyGUN [shotbygun@213-186-253-83.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
14:06<andythenorth>Broadrock mining truck, 1951 or so
14:06<frosch123>are yaks related to yetis?
14:07<andythenorth>yetis shave the yaks
14:08<frosch123>yak shaving "plant"?
14:09<andythenorth>add a newgrf factory
14:09<andythenorth>bit meta :P
14:09<frosch123>what does it process? pixels + yak wool?
14:11-!-Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx167.nemendur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:11<andythenorth>yes
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14:18<andythenorth>edibles tankers!
14:18<andythenorth>http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=502273&nseq=2
14:18<andythenorth>wine
14:18<andythenorth>“Of course, this is not fine wine, but everyday's basic red wine. “
14:19<@peter1138>Tesco Value wine?
14:19<frosch123>how about transporting liquid chocolate in torpedo cars?
14:19<andythenorth>I do want some torpedo cars
14:19<andythenorth>hmm
14:19<andythenorth>edibles economy
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14:30<andythenorth>hmm
14:30<andythenorth>now what
14:31<andythenorth>more articulated trucks I guess
14:31<andythenorth>does this madness work?
14:31<Wolf01>ah, btw, I saw the new Tube trains, they look really nice
14:33<andythenorth>Iron Horse?
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14:37<andythenorth>hmm
14:37<andythenorth>this kind of works
14:37<andythenorth>unexpected
14:56<andythenorth>always one bloody edge case
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15:11*andythenorth shaves more frigging yaks
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15:17<@peter1138>ok
15:17<andythenorth>ok “I’ve fixed TGP”?
15:17<andythenorth>or just ok?
15:18<Supercheese>Shave & a Yak cut, 0.25 bytes
15:18<@peter1138>Just ok.
15:18<@peter1138>I rebooted to Windows to play Assetto Corsa for a bit.
15:18<Rubidium_>... and then Windows itself decided to reboot once more to install a
15:18<Rubidium_>"few" updates
15:19<@peter1138>Nah, that was yesterday. To be fair it hadn't been booted for a couple of months.
15:19<@peter1138>Of course, there were Java updates all over the shop too :(
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15:27<andythenorth>hmm
15:27<andythenorth>not perfet
15:27<andythenorth>or even perfect
15:27<andythenorth>but then again
15:36<frosch123>my work notebook needed to boot 4 times yesterday :p
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15:41<andythenorth>hmm
15:41<andythenorth>different offsets for trucks and trams?
15:41<andythenorth>some \ / views, the trams look aligned with default trams
15:41<frosch123>draw them at half scale
15:41<andythenorth>but the trucks are very close to white line
15:41<frosch123>so you get 4 lines instead of two
15:41<frosch123>then let the trams drive in th emiddle :p
15:42<andythenorth>well
15:42<andythenorth>it’s an idea :P
15:42<frosch123>we'll get more no-overtaking reports
15:42<Supercheese>should just make all RVs noclip like ships and be done with it
15:43<Supercheese>then ships would no longer be the only infinite-capacity route
15:44<andythenorth>RVs already no-clip sometimes
15:44<andythenorth>they can and do drive through each other
15:44<@peter1138>QUANTUM QUEUEING
15:44<@peter1138>Right let's hobble ships?
15:45<andythenorth>:(
15:45<andythenorth>what, just when I nearly get to 1.0 on a ship grf? :P
15:45<@peter1138>:D
15:46<andythenorth>also
15:46<andythenorth>I’m making these bloody RVs
15:47<andythenorth>and none of you use RVs anyway
15:48*Supercheese uses HEQS trams quite a bit, especially on 19th century starts
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16:05<@peter1138>"Every time I try to post a picture it's waaaay too big. How can I fix this?" < make it smaller...
16:05<Rubidium_>use an older camera?
16:06<Taede>for a screenshot?
16:06<Rubidium_>yes
16:07<Rubidium_>just get an old 320x240 camera, take a shot of the screen and voila... small screenshot
16:07-!-Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
16:08<frosch123>i have an old 640x480 webcam somewhere in my closet, i can sell it to you for 500€
16:14<Rubidium>http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/tmp/xvcoffee.jpeg <- much better resolution for screen shots ;)
16:15<@peter1138>Rubidium, have you considered src/table/genland.h?
16:15<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ridge.png
16:15<@peter1138>Results in weird rainforest areas up there.
16:15<@peter1138>And there's a weird ridge too, which is something else.
16:16<Rubidium>peter1138: considered in what way?
16:16<@peter1138>Not sure but it's related to the weird rainforest bits.
16:16<@peter1138>Unless that's ... normal ...
16:17<Rubidium>I think rainforest is above 25% of max height
16:17<frosch123>25% of the setting, or 25% of that function depending on map size?
16:17<@peter1138>Hmmm
16:17<Rubidium>the setting
16:18<Rubidium>feel free to change it; I won't until at least monday evening
16:18<Rubidium>(due to lack of development system)
16:19<frosch123>i feel like coding a mapgen preview, just to be able to test the settings easier :p
16:19<Rubidium>go ahead ;)
16:20<andythenorth>what, you don’t like trying over and over again to understand just what effect the settings have? o_O
16:23<andythenorth>hmm
16:23<andythenorth>well
16:23<andythenorth>now we have configurable effects
16:23<andythenorth>I might as well do trucks with twin stack
16:25<andythenorth>hmm
16:25<andythenorth>can effects be on trailing parts of an articulated consist?
16:25<frosch123>yes
16:26<andythenorth>super
16:28<frosch123>3 effects per articulated part
16:28<frosch123>you can create a lot of dust
16:28<@peter1138>frosch123, how would you preview it? Even the small map gets pretty large.
16:28<frosch123>massive zoom out
16:28<Rubidium>peter1138: you mean that there's a quite visible grid of areas with the same slope?
16:29<Rubidium>(ridge.png)
16:29<frosch123>only show height level, water, possibly desert
16:29<frosch123>no rivers or fancy stuff
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16:29<@peter1138>Rubidium, height level 43 is... wider than the other bits.
16:29<@peter1138>Always 43, and it always goes around the whole map...
16:30<Rubidium>doesn't sound like something logical
16:31<frosch123>yeah, if it was level 42 instead, it would totally make sense
16:31<@peter1138>Hmm, seems like it's near a cut of point where things get steeper, so part of a non-linear scaling thing.
16:31<Rubidium>smells like variety then
16:31<@peter1138>Hmm, actually now it's level 37.
16:31<@peter1138>So... not always 43.
16:31<@peter1138>I have variety off, so no :p
16:31<Rubidium>different map size?
16:32<@peter1138>Hmm, yeah, that affects it.
16:32<Rubidium>first mountainous 2kx2k or 4kx4k to alpinist 512x512
16:33<Rubidium>it should also happen at 1.4 (around heightlevel 8)
16:34<Rubidium>around line 490 of tgp.cpp
16:34<Rubidium>yay for different behaviour on different landscapes
16:34<@peter1138>Yeah
16:40<liq3>Would be pretty cool if we got cliffs next. o.o
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16:41<liq3>Though I suppose without the ability to rotate that's not really possible eh?
16:41<andythenorth>no cliffs
16:42<andythenorth>ho ho
16:42<andythenorth>ctrl-click stop start
16:42<andythenorth>that makes smoke testing easier
16:42<@peter1138>Top-down view!
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16:42<liq3>peter1138: that wouldn't help :D
16:42<Rubidium>peter1138: yeah... Sim City style ;)
16:42<liq3>altho, top-down view could be pretty cool.
16:42<@peter1138>liq3, it would.
16:43<Rubidium>it's called smallmap though ;)
16:43<Rubidium>and a nuisance with bridges
16:44<liq3>alpinist 4k map. wow.
16:44<liq3>Got huge mountain ranges.
16:44<andythenorth>yeah, twin stack trucks
16:44<andythenorth>dunno, maybe I should effect spawn steam :P
16:44<Rubidium>liq3: but so unreal
16:44<liq3>who cares? want interesting gameplay not realism.
16:45<liq3>wish they could be even steeper. Not really possible without cliffs tho.
16:45<Rubidium>did some calculations... you can't have a French map with Mont Ventoux on it (it would be either too low or too wide), and if you want the Mont Blanc tunnel with realistic overburden (amount of rock above it), you are limited to about 60 meter pet tile at 4kx4k
16:46<Rubidium>s/pet/per/
16:47<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/topdown.png
16:48<andythenorth>much better
16:48<@peter1138>Sort of like that... except draw all slopes as flat tiles.
16:48<andythenorth>so much clearer
16:48<@peter1138>Then your cliffs don't get in the way.
16:48<@peter1138>Buildings might, somewhat :p
16:48<andythenorth>hurgh, steam spawn model is crap for disiesel trucks
16:49<Supercheese>every building is the leaning tower of pisa :P
16:49<Rubidium>peter1138: just crop the top "tile" size (with mask) from the builing and you got a top view ;)
16:49<andythenorth>cba to write a custom effect generator
16:50<andythenorth>frosch123: is there a spawn effect that is constant?
16:51<frosch123>constant smoke per time, independent of speed, acceleration and everything?
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16:51<frosch123>why?
16:52<andythenorth>then I can modify the behaviour in the cb
16:52<andythenorth>or do I miss something?
16:52<frosch123>ah, that way
16:53<frosch123>well, sounds like a dangerious box
16:53<andythenorth>sounds like BAD FEATURE
16:53<frosch123>what rate shouild it use?
16:53<andythenorth>yeah dunno
16:53<frosch123>should it check for start/stop/loading/...
16:53<andythenorth>just think trucks should make more smoke going up hill
16:53<Rubidium>frosch123: 0/0
16:53<frosch123>andythenorth: does the diesel model not do that?
16:53<andythenorth>diesel spawn is a bit too low-pollution imo
16:54<andythenorth>dunno, maybe these trucks have too much hp
16:54<andythenorth>let’s see
16:54<andythenorth>as you’d expect, the code is written for trains...
16:54<Supercheese>Complaining about insufficient pollution...
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16:55<andythenorth>yeah if I cripple the hp they smoke a lot
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16:56<andythenorth>but are uselessly slow :)
16:58<@peter1138>Reduce the threshold for RVs
16:58<andythenorth>shocking suggestion
16:58<@peter1138>And maybe factor in last service date for diesel fumes.
17:00<andythenorth>an intermittent effect would be nice
17:00<andythenorth>due to changing gear, going round corners, other realisms crap
17:00<@peter1138>They need to slow down a lot more, round bends.
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17:01<@peter1138>Parking in a non-drive-thru road stop is ... scary.
17:02<andythenorth>ho ho 303, like a Roland
17:02<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/road-hog/push/LATEST/
17:02<andythenorth>try the broadrock, maybe on some mountains
17:03<andythenorth>twin stack smoke, should it be further apart?
17:04-!-Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit []
17:04<andythenorth>ha ha
17:05<andythenorth>more height levels
17:05<andythenorth>proper test of these RVs :P
17:05<andythenorth>could make a 2048x2048 quarry map
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17:19<frosch123>night
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17:25<andythenorth>hmm
17:25<andythenorth>where is smoke
17:26<andythenorth>vehicle.cpp
17:27<andythenorth>For trains, power and weight come in handy too to either increase smoke emission in
17:27<andythenorth> * 6 steps (1000HP each) if the power is low or decrease smoke emission in 6 steps (512 tonnes each) if the train
17:27<andythenorth> * isn't overweight. Power and weight contributions are expressed in a way that neither extreme power, nor
17:27<andythenorth> * extreme weight can ruin the balance (e.g. FreightWagonMultiplier) in the formula.
17:30*andythenorth understands the words
17:30<andythenorth>just not when they’re all put together
17:36<Wolf01>'night
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17:38<@peter1138>See we don't have acceleration limits (beyond max tractive effort)
17:39<@peter1138>So vehicles always put out as much power as possible.
17:39<@peter1138>Therefore you can't put out smoke based on how much load the engine is under, because it's always full load.
17:40<@peter1138>But hey, it's not a vehicle simulator :D
17:42<andythenorth>well
17:42<andythenorth>is power_weight_effect of any use for RVs?
17:46<@peter1138>No idea.
17:46<andythenorth>I can’t figure out what it actually does
17:46<andythenorth>or why it’s foolproof
17:48<@peter1138>We've got five years, that's all we've got.
17:49<andythenorth>now I have to listen to Bowie
17:49<andythenorth>and it’s bedtime :(
17:52<@peter1138>It was on the radio.
17:52<@peter1138>But yes, it's bedtime.
17:53<andythenorth>also
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17:53<andythenorth>hmm
17:53<andythenorth>default effects
17:54<andythenorth>tomorrow’s party
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18:39<argoneus>good night train friends
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19:21<liq3>my town got smaller. wut.
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20:41<circ-user-CRryy>hi
20:41<circ-user-CRryy>oops
20:42<Pikka>exactly
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20:45<supermop>hi
20:46<Pikka>hi
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 17 00:00:55 2014