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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-19

---Logopened Sun Oct 19 00:00:58 2014
00:29<supermop>i wish houses could change over time
00:43<supermop>Pikka: saw your boat tour pictures - are you leaning more towards the modern end up there?
00:45<Pikka>well, I could only photograph what was by the river from the boat :)
00:46<Pikka>I do like some of those buildings for modern built-up, but I'll need to do a walking tour around some of the suburbs for older inspiration.
00:47<Pikka>actually I was out at new farm on friday night and there's some gorgeous low-level deco apartment buildings around the park. You don't see them in other parts of brisbane.
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00:50<supermop>yeah i saw some cool 20s or 30s looking stuff around there
00:51<supermop>we have a lot of art deco and international pubs and commercial buildings in some areas, but very little in the way of housing
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01:37<supermop>should an australian house set have lighting flipped?
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02:01<supermop>tough room
02:02<supermop>ok so how about this: can sidewalks change based on town zone, or do trees etc just get layered over the same sidewalk sprite
02:03<supermop>and if the latter is true, I guess one could make "trees" that are a rectangle of different pavement?
02:04<supermop>Most areas in this city have bluestone curbs (kerbs) with asphalt pavement as the sidewalk surface,
02:05<supermop>but "fancy" areas in the cbd, and some other high streets have larger, finely honed bluestone blocks forming both the curb and pavement
02:06<supermop>since both of those materials are black/dark grey I guess it does not matter, but i was thinking of drawing the 'trees' and 'lamposts' areas as the fancier stone
02:07<supermop>i wonder if it is worth modelling a road/sidewalk, or just take a texture of one and skew it into a dimetric rectangle in photoshop
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02:15<Supercheese>I do not know
02:20<Pikka>there's only the two road types, paved for the low town zones and unpaved outisde.
02:20<Pikka>until andy codes us roadtypes
02:21<supermop>andythenorth: i want fancy roads
02:21<Supercheese>gib roadtypes
02:21<andythenorth>roadtypes are a bad feature
02:21<Supercheese>that has not stopped you in the past
02:22<supermop>Pikka: but one could abuse the boulevard trees to make fancy sidewalks?
02:22<supermop>other option i considered was regauging roads
02:23<supermop>so the sidewalk area was 'road', perhaps street parking or such, and then draw sidewalks onto the front of the houses
02:24<supermop>that way roads are visually bigger, but not really out of scale with existing RV or whatever
02:24<andythenorth>Pikka: can haz zeps (pm)
02:24<andythenorth>offsets and what not aren’t sorted yet
02:24<Pikka>that latter option could work well, supermop.
02:25<supermop>and sidewalk can vary based on building - sidewalk cafes etc
02:25<Pikka>abusing the trees might cause layering problems. and a lot of people (well, me) have "full detail" turned off and so don't get those trees anyway.
02:26<supermop>usually developer of a large building is responsible for furnishing and maintaining the sidewalk anyway
02:27<V453000>andythenorth make roadtypes immudeately!
02:28<andythenorth>V453000: only after watertypes
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02:29<Pikka>openttd is a bad game because it doesn't accurately model turbulence above mountains.
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02:29<andythenorth>should revert more height levels
02:29<andythenorth>on that basis
02:31<Supercheese>you could probably model that in a plane grf actually
02:31<Supercheese>query aircraft height above ground
02:31<Supercheese>reduce max speed
02:31<andythenorth>also aircraft should get a service ceiling
02:31<andythenorth>maybe 128
02:31*Pikka appoints Supercheese the new king of BAD FEATURES
02:32<supermop>cant find texture i want for sidewalks - must go downtown and figure out a way to photograph
02:32*Pikka out
02:32<Pikka>I shall check ze zeps later, andy
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02:32<Supercheese>Rex facultatum malarum
02:32<Supercheese>or allcaps
02:33<supermop>strike up a medal with that
02:33<supermop>mail one out each year to one person
02:33<Supercheese>don't give us any ideas
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02:36<supermop>alright, if i come up with some road graphics by tuesday, anyone want to code them?
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02:57<andythenorth>come back pikka
03:00<Supercheese> is beautiful
03:01<Supercheese>pixel art at its finest
03:01<Supercheese>or well, certainly near its finest at least
03:02<Supercheese>Only took, what, seven years to get coded?
03:08<andythenorth>roofs are lit wrong in \ view
03:08*andythenorth nitpick
03:09<supermop> scrap it all
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03:45<supermop>we need rusty washing machines as new objects
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03:48<andythenorth>lo Alberth
03:49<@Alberth>in case you're still contemplating what to do next, there seems to be a demand for north-american pixels :)
03:54<Supercheese>Pikka's updating NARS soon, eh?
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05:08<@peter1138>7 years to get coded, since then we have 32bpp 4x zoom ;p
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05:34<argoneus>good morning train friends
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05:55<NGC3982>Is there a rough estimate on how much bandwith playing on a ttd server is used?
05:56<NGC3982>Speed is not the issue, but the network cap is a bit sensitive at my location
05:56<NGC3982>And it is unfortunately hard to measure at the moment.
05:57<@Alberth> ?
05:57<@Alberth>you didn't think you'd be the first with that question eh? :)
05:57<SpComb>joining a game uses a savegame's worth of bandwidth
05:58<SpComb>that FAQ doesn't actually say that :)
05:58<NGC3982>Alberth: Hehe. Thanks a bunch.
05:58<@Alberth>feel free to adjust :)
05:58<SpComb>after joining it's perfectly playable on a 40kbps GPRS link
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06:27<George>A CREATE_EFFECT related question - does it happen when vehicle is not powered?
06:27<George>for example wrong rails?
06:31<George>and according power. Is vehicles_is_powered() true when power CB returns 0?
06:32<frosch123>it checks the railtype, but not the power
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07:10<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't make a lot of sense
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07:15<Eddi|zuHause>hm, it seems that video playback in chromium is broken. it works in firefox :(
07:17<supermop>i have no desire to play a regular game of openttd here
07:17<supermop>anyone want to play mp
07:19<supermop>oooh buck was just shipped from germany
07:20<@peter1138>__ln__, doesn't look like a submarine...
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07:27<__ln__>peter1138: what about a support ship for a submarine?
07:35<frosch123>to prevent it from sinking?
07:47<@Alberth>smuggling operations, highly profitable :p
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08:33<@peter1138>Why do planes always circle :S
08:33<@peter1138>Should be no need
08:33<@peter1138>Unless it's busy of course.
08:34<__ln__>only harrier can hover
08:39<@planetifex>airports have well-described approaches, so a circle is not unrealistic
08:56<SHOTbyGUN>yeah blaim the ATC not the plane :)
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09:41<Wolf01>hi hi
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09:47<argoneus>I know this is not the best channel
09:47<argoneus>but is anyone here well versed in microphones / audio in general?
09:49<@peter1138>Sort of.
09:49<argoneus>any idea if there are desktop microphones that have a reach of 0.5 - 0.6m with decent quality and no static?
09:49<argoneus>(that don't cost $800)
09:50<argoneus>what I've seen so far, microphones need you to be quite close, no?
09:50<__ln__>argoneus: this _is_ the best channel for a lot of things, from linear algebra to poetry.
09:51<Wolf01>you seem confused with xkcd
09:58<@peter1138>Usually you use a microphone up close to avoid other unwanted sounds being picked up.
09:59<@peter1138>If it's further then you need to increase the gain, which increases all the background noises.
10:01<@peter1138>If you're recording a loud source (singing?) then that's less of an issue.
10:02<@peter1138>Regarding types...
10:03<@peter1138>A shotgun mic might give best results.
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10:28<@peter1138>Gah, must not rewrite plane handling...
10:36<@Alberth>I have a patch to send an aircraft to a given tile with a given heading somewhere
10:36<@Alberth>it computes a flight path
10:36<Wolf01>zellepin buoys
10:38<@Alberth>my original idea was to make a big circle around a cluster of airport to collect aircraft, and for each runway assign 2 aircraft that circle just in front of the assigned runway
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11:21<andythenorth>eagle flew out of the night
11:21<andythenorth>he was something to observe
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12:09<andythenorth>any of you want to do the nfo so CHIPS supports snow?
12:09<andythenorth>I’ll draw the snow...
12:09<andythenorth>the nfo is GRM magic, I’m not touching it
12:11<@Rubidium>I think you'll need to talk to a GRM specialist then ;)
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12:17<andythenorth>no snow for you then
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12:22<argoneus>peter1138: thanks
12:23<@Rubidium>andythenorth: given the amount of time I play (:(), once you've drawn it... it'll take me a few years before I've seen your snowy tiles for the same amount of time ;)
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12:33<@peter1138>Hmm, xBRZ looks interesting, but it is GPLv3 :S
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12:50<andythenorth>more scalers?
12:55<@peter1138>Whatever happened to P1SIM?
12:56<@peter1138>Heh, so much for isometric :)
13:00<andythenorth>he did a release in Feb? STR_NAME_SUFFIX_FOUNDRY_TRAM :Foundry Tram
13:00<andythenorth>STR_NAME_SUFFIX_FOUNDRY_HAULER :Foundry Hauler
13:00<andythenorth>c+p oopsie
13:00<andythenorth>could have been worse :P
13:07<@peter1138>Heh, I forgot that GeekToo's EZ patch only worked with one of the 32bpp blitters...
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13:23<@peter1138>ok maybe 3-tile stations was a bit short
13:28<V453000>iz not
13:40<@peter1138>Yeah but, they're only 2 platform, and I only have double-track.
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13:40<@peter1138>Dinger 1000 to the rescue :p
14:02<Wolf01>lol, from the first comment on the pricing page of P1SIM: "Looks like the alpha release date has changed from 2013 to 2016. I think I should stop checking everyday…"
14:02<@peter1138>Alberth, zig-zag down is "realism"
14:04<@Alberth>peter1138: sadly lacking in openttd, derailing at the bottom of a hill would be good game play, imo :)
14:04<@peter1138>Yeah, it's not possible to pass the maximum speed, and then we brake instantly anyway...
14:05<@peter1138>But generally people building zig-zags are going for "realism" and looks, otherwise you'd just flatten the hill
14:06<@Alberth>although in the latter case, it's easier to start with a flat world :)
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15:06<andythenorth>Alberth: MHL = “this one goes to 11"
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15:07<@Alberth>so it seems
15:07<@Alberth>ie another form of "big map"
15:08<Wolf01>"demonstrates an amplifier whose volume knob is marked from zero to eleven, instead of the usual zero to ten."
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15:08<Wolf01>then it is 12
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15:10<andythenorth>in principle, if we knew how to make more interesting terrain gen, it could make more interesting maps
15:10<andythenorth>even on 256x256
15:10<andythenorth>like a map that slopes continuously up from sea in one direction
15:11<Wolf01>that one would be cool
15:11<andythenorth>and all the industry at the top and bottom
15:12<andythenorth>or an island with obscene peak in the middle
15:12<andythenorth>so that routing is better around the edges
15:12<@Rubidium>andythenorth: trying the stepped heightmap at 256x256. Good luck building there
15:12<andythenorth>there’s a stepped heightmap? o_O
15:13<@Rubidium>don't forget to set max height to 255
15:13<andythenorth>perfect cube :P
15:14<andythenorth>can I set 256x256x256, flat, no sea borders?
15:14<@Rubidium>no, you can set 256x256x255 in SE
15:14<andythenorth>remember non-freeform map edges?
15:14<Zuu>Just make a gradient in GIMP?
15:14<andythenorth>that one was a nice patch
15:14<andythenorth>meh, heightmaps
15:15<Zuu>Or whatever paint program you got.
15:15<andythenorth>I did some heightmaps, they’re never worth the effort
15:15<andythenorth>easier to hit newgame until TGP produces something not ugly
15:15<andythenorth>only takes about 20 or 30 goes normally
15:15<Wolf01>the problem is that we lack of step slopes and half height levels, which limit on the layouts, I have some really interesting maps in mind, but I can make them only in LoMo, something like ravines and high vertical rocks
15:16<andythenorth>it’s as much about where towns and industries are as the terrain
15:16<andythenorth>maybe I should make FIRS more opinionated :P
15:17<@Rubidium>regarding realism and MHL... we need tunnels that leave at a different heightlevel than where they enter, and likewise with bridges
15:18<andythenorth>bridges can, no?
15:18<@Rubidium>not really
15:18<andythenorth>spiral tunnel patch?
15:18<andythenorth>tunnel exit and entrance face same direction, but 10 height levels distant
15:19<@Rubidium>one heightlevel is not significant enough, and... you need a flat-ish tile for that anyhow, which means more terraforming
15:19<andythenorth>bridges = slopey graphics
15:19<andythenorth>ugly schmugly
15:19<andythenorth>sloped tunnels otoh...
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15:21*Rubidium waves to the NW
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16:05<@planetifex>north-west, Rubidium ?
16:12<@planetifex>so... snowlevels, and height level setting... it's a tricky issue
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16:25<Eddi|zuHause>but, isn't "planet" a greek word?
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>and "-fex" latin?
16:26<@planetifex>planetòs is. It's the hiker or wanderer
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes, because they're wandering stars
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16:37*andythenorth invents BAD FEATURE
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17:33<Eddi|zuHause>so it's now a bed feature?
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17:39<Supercheese>bead feature
17:44<LordAro>bread feature
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17:54<Supercheese>fad breacher
17:55<Supercheese>or beacher
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18:11<supermop>good morning
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18:25<argoneus>good night train friends
18:31<rrix>Urgh, I turned on zBase, and it looks really great, but none of the GRFs I have support 32bpp :(
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18:41<liq3>rrix: you need to play YETI then :D
18:41<rrix>Yeah I do, though I was just getting used to FIRS
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>you can spend ages getting used to FIRS, and then it just changes...
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>andy does not have a very steady and focused mind :p
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18:52<@peter1138>zBase smells anyway.
18:52<NGC3982>I guess someone around here has tried the new Sim City game?
18:53<liq3>man I'm gonna have to try FIRS with NUTS sometime. Should be fun.
18:55<@peter1138>NGC3982, I wouldn't want to ruin my memories of the best version of Sim City...
19:08<Supercheese>Simcity 2000, good times
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: inverse horror sim city?
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>i briefly thought about getting the new sim city, but then decided i don't need origin crap contaminating my system...
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19:27<NGC3982>The game itself looks absolutely amazing
19:27<NGC3982>I have never seen anything like it
19:33<supermop>like sim city 4?
19:34<NGC3982>Not even close.
19:36<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, they were... adequate... graphics, at the time.
19:36<@peter1138>Of course, bearing in mind there was only 32KB RAM in total back then, and 10KB of that was used for VRAM...
19:38<@peter1138>And then 6.25 KB was used by the system...
19:38<@peter1138>Hmm, so yeah, all your code, and all your data, in 15.75KB.
19:39<supermop>my favorite classic feature of SC4 is the constant and unpredictable crashes to desktop
19:39<supermop>really kept you on your toes
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: well, the first sim city i ever played had EGA support...
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>with like 640x400 and 64 colours
19:43<@peter1138>16 colours actually.
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>16 out of 64 or something like that
19:43<@peter1138>But that's a whole 128KB just for the display memory! Impossible!
19:43<@peter1138>Well, 128000 bytes, anyway.
19:44<@peter1138>It would've been 640x200 or possibly 640x350, but more likely 200.
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>no, i'm pretty sure that it was 640x400
19:45<@peter1138>No, 640x350.
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>it was just short of VGA's 640x480
19:45<@peter1138>EGA couldn't do 640x400
19:45<@peter1138>And yeah, I played that version too.
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19:45<Eddi|zuHause>it certainly wasn't 200, because that would be weirdly distorted pixels
19:45<@peter1138>Non-square pixels were fine on CRTs.
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but text looks awkward...
19:46<@peter1138>640x350 was non-square as well, just not as bad.
19:46<+glx>yeah like mode 0 on amstrad, with nice rectangular pixels
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>there was a mode called "MCGA" which was 320x200 with 256 colours
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>i think Civ 1 used that
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>with palette-animated water and stuff
20:00<@peter1138>"The Monuments of Mars! has very complex graphics and animation, therefore it will not run fast enough on any 8088 CPU IBM or compatible. In other words you must have a system equipped with an 8086, 80286, or 80386.
20:01<@peter1138>It's CGA.
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>so "C" stands for "complex"? :p
20:02<@peter1138>Eh, normally just 'crap'
20:03<+glx>it's for color (even if it's ugly)
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, each of the 4-colour sets had very opposing colours
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>the most common one had magenta and cyan, or so
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>and black, and i forgoth the other one
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>might have been yellow
20:06<@peter1138>black, magenta, cyan & white
20:06<@peter1138>black, red, green, brown
20:06<+glx>and black was "modifiable"
20:07<+glx>could be any of the 16 colors
20:08<@peter1138>red cyan and white was also there, but not used often
20:08<@peter1138>it was unofficial
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>i can't really think of a game that used anythong other than the magenta one
20:09<+glx>yeah for me cga means magenta
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>and then i remember going through all kinds of hoops to get an SVGA card for playing sim city 2000
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20:50<NGC3982>I need to stop now
20:50<NGC3982>This was fantastic
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 20 00:00:00 2014