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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-23

---Logopened Thu Oct 23 00:00:24 2014
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04:14<argoneus>good morning, train friends
04:16<V453000>no morning
04:16<V453000>no friends
04:19<argoneus>why are you so negative every mornink
04:19<argoneus>it's not even monday anymore
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04:21<argoneus>by the way
04:21<@Rubidium>though what's the problem with monday?
04:21<argoneus>Rubidium: it's not sunday anymore
04:21<argoneus>that's the problem
04:21<argoneus>also V453000
04:21<@Rubidium>what's so great about sunday?
04:21<@peter1138># Tell me why, I don't like Mondays...
04:21<argoneus>when you get to work every morning, does it take you like 30 minutes to wake up before you can actually start working?
04:21<@Rubidium>argoneus: no
04:23*Rubidium usually wakes just before his alarm, and on the same time when the alarm isn't set (i.e. the days when not working)
04:23<@Rubidium>as such I'm not interupted in my REM sleep and don't feel tired the whole day
04:25<argoneus>I don't have the discipline to go to bed before midnight
04:25<argoneus>because it feels like I am wasting time
04:25<argoneus>so I usually go to bed around 1, and miss the window
04:25<argoneus>and then when I get up at 8, I'm off by ~30 minutes
04:25<argoneus>and super tired the entire morning
04:25<argoneus>it's actually kind of funny
04:25<argoneus>when I go to bed at 1 and wake up at 8, I'm more tired than if I go to bed at 5 and wake up at 11
04:25<@peter1138>At least you know it's your own damn fault.
04:26<argoneus>I dunno
04:26<argoneus>I just want to sleep until my body wants to wake up
04:26<argoneus>not until an alarm reminds me of things I have to do
04:26<@Rubidium>argoneus: so go to bed earlier
04:26<argoneus>also, fun story
04:26<argoneus>I woke up today at 8
04:26<argoneus>and took my phone to read news etc for like 10 minutes before I wake up
04:26<argoneus>and suddenly it was 8:40, phone still in my hands, and I don't remember reading anything
04:27*argoneus shrugs
04:27<@peter1138>I blame 24 hour TV.
04:27<@peter1138>Used to be that when the TV stations were getting ready for closing for the night, you knew it was late...
04:28<argoneus>I don't even watch TV
04:28<argoneus>but yeah
04:28<argoneus>since I get home at like 19, I don't really want to go to bed early
04:28<argoneus>I want to have some fun too :<
04:28<@Rubidium>peter1138: the only TV channels that I know that make anywhere near 24 hours of TV a day are from the BBC. The rest has like 30% commercials, so only 17 hours of actual content per day
04:29<@peter1138>argoneus, bed early is 20:00.
04:29<@Rubidium>argoneus: so... go to bed at 23:30, wake up by yourself at ~06:55, at the office at 07:30 (yay short commute), back home at 16:15... that's 7 hours for fun stuff
04:30<argoneus>Rubidium: what's the latest research on sleeping anyway?
04:30<argoneus>is it still cycles that take 1 hr 30 mi?
04:30<argoneus>or are there any news about that
04:31<@peter1138>Funny to think the BBC used to play our national anthem every single night...
04:31<@Rubidium>I'm not subscribed to medical papers, so I wouldn't know... but it sounds like the things I heard
04:32<argoneus>I don't know, my sleeping is weird
04:32<argoneus>on weekends I usually sleep like 11 hours
04:32<argoneus>naturally, that is
04:32<argoneus>maybe I should exercise more
04:32<@peter1138>That happens to me when I stay up too late.
04:32<Eddi|zuHause>sleeping is overrated
04:33<argoneus>I just like nights
04:33*Rubidium has a hard time sleeping more than 7.5 hours
04:33<argoneus>it's dark, quiet, people who play online games are nice, because all the children are sleeping
04:33<argoneus>and working on school assignments is easier at night too
04:34<argoneus>maybe my sleeping has something to do with me staying in front of a bright 24'' screen all day long
04:34<@peter1138>And it makes you fucked in the morning, Yay.
04:34<Eddi|zuHause>if i don't have anywhere to go, i tend to doze off again for 2h after i wake up
04:34<argoneus>if I have to wake up at 8, I set alarms at 7:30 and 8
04:34<argoneus>and the 7:30 is just my pleasure alarm
04:34<argoneus>aka wake up, turn it off, realize I can still sleep a bit more, fall asleep again, enjoy that feeling
04:35<@Rubidium>oh... dozing off after you alarm for a few minutes is even worse than just waking up right away w.r.t. tiredness
04:35<argoneus>but I don't think that could make me fucked
04:35<argoneus>Rubidium: is it actually bad?
04:35<@Rubidium>argoneus: my imperical research has quite definitely proven that
04:35<Eddi|zuHause>half an hour is definitely not enough
04:36<@Rubidium>Eddi's 2 hours might be okay, but a relatively short amount of time is devastating for me
04:37<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, since today is a day where i have to go somewhere, i should get a shower...
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04:52<dihedral>oi :-)
05:00<supermop>does Eddi|zuHause actually ever sleep?
05:00<argoneus>maybe he just hibernates
05:00<supermop>on every continent i've been on, you seem to be active on irc whenever i log on
05:00<argoneus>supermop: do you move between continents overnight?
05:01<supermop>over two nights last time
05:01*planetmaker has seen him sleeping. So that question can doubtlessly be answered with 'yes'
05:01<__ln__>argoneus: supermop stays where he is, the continents move
05:02<@planetmaker>__ln__, should be able to confirm :P
05:02<__ln__>actually i can't, because i slept at a hotel
05:03<@planetmaker>true. Forgot that
05:03<@Rubidium>supermop: have you proven that Eddi|zuHause isn't some avatar of a bot?
05:03<supermop>i actually believe he is a hive mind
05:03<@Rubidium>and if so, then it continuously sleeps for short periods of time
05:04<supermop>but on this continent there is about an hour of light left and i am going to use it to take a walk
05:04<@Rubidium>alternatively... you haven't been in/at the right continent
05:04<Eddi|zuHause><__ln__> argoneus: supermop stays where he is, the continents move <-- my father used to say this about trains and stations
05:04<__ln__>supermop: a walk... oh no, is your car broken?
05:06*Rubidium would have proposed a space walk, but there you generally have 45 minutes of light at a time
05:08<argoneus>it's easy to prove he's not a bot
05:08<@Rubidium>argoneus: how?
05:09<argoneus>let's assume he was a bot, bots don't have parents, he said his father used to say something, which implies he had a father, thus the original statement is true
05:09<V453000>my ass is grass
05:10<@Rubidium>argoneus: you know that in certain fields of AI the progress happens due to evolution? Therefor, an AI of such make does have a parent
05:12<argoneus>Rubidium: except in genetical algorithms the parents don't communicate with their offsprings, they just give them the best part of themselves
05:12<Eddi|zuHause>* Rubidium would have proposed a space walk, but there you generally have 45 minutes of light at a time <-- on the ISS orbit?
05:13<@Rubidium>furthermore, certain people say they don't have parents. Are they bots? Saying you have or haven't something isn't proof, unless it is verified by a trusted third party
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: data definitely called his creator "father"
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>and some people have a "father" that's not their birth parent
05:14<argoneus>but why would anyone make an AI
05:15<argoneus>that lurks around IRC 24/7 and creates mods for a 20 year old game about trains?
05:15<Eddi|zuHause>why would a human lurk around IRC 24/7 and create mods for a 20 year old game about trains?
05:15<@Rubidium>argoneus: same argument, but replace AI with child
05:16<argoneus>are there parents that say
05:16<argoneus>"jimmy, when you grow up, I want you to make the best trainset everyone will love"
05:16<@planetmaker>* Rubidium would have proposed a space walk, but there you generally have 45 minutes of light at a time <-- actually you have more than 50% of the time covered in the sun ;)
05:17<Eddi|zuHause>are there parents that say: "when you grow up, i want you to make a website that is super efficient at finding other websites"?
05:17<@Rubidium>planetmaker: yeah, refraction, and being outside of blocking power of the ellipsoid, but still...
05:18<@planetmaker>@calc (6781+300 ) / 6781
05:18<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 1.04424126235
05:18<@Rubidium>@calc 24*60/15.51
05:18<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 92.8433268859
05:18<@Rubidium>@calc 24*60/15.51/2*1.044
05:18<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 48.4642166344
05:18<Eddi|zuHause>ISS orbit is 300km?
05:19<@planetmaker>300 ... 400km, yes
05:19<@Rubidium>okay... so rounded to the nearest quarter hour still 45 minutes
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05:20<@Rubidium>after all, the orbit duration is off by almost 3 minutes as well from 90 minutes
05:20<@Rubidium>and I reckon the orbit duration fluctuates a bit as well
05:20<@planetmaker>that also assumes that the ISS's plane is currently aligned such that it passes behind the Earth at all. The plane of orbit with respect to the sun doesn't change
05:21<@planetmaker>two days a year it's such that it's never dark. Add those where it's never dark as it's higher than Earth's radius. So... night is much less than day over the year
05:22<@Rubidium>the inclination is 51.6 degrees from the equator
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>that's definitely using the wrong definition of "night"
05:22<@planetmaker>yes. But looking from the outside you always find a direction where a circle around the Earth is never passing behind
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>like, why would the enterprise need a "night crew" by that definition?
05:23<@planetmaker>this situation happens at twice a year, and more as the circle is greater than the earth's diameter
05:23<@Rubidium>basically bumping between the south of England to the south of Argentina
05:23<@Rubidium>as far as I am aware, it is never light for the whole day in England
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05:24<argoneus>wow I want +v too
05:25<@planetmaker>sure, argoneus, write us a port to an obscure device in a way the patches can be accepted in trunk :)
05:25<Eddi|zuHause>"i'm a RL buddy of DorpsGek, please give me op!"?
05:26<@Rubidium>furthermore, in Oslo the amount of hours of "daylight" is 5:54 on the shortest. Since this is more northern and an orbit is 90 minutes, it must go through the dark there
05:26<argoneus>did he port the game to a calculator or what
05:26<Eddi|zuHause>something like that
05:27<@Rubidium>likewise, if it is dark at the northern hemisphere for only 6 hours, it must be dark at the southern hemisphere for 18 hours, so in the end it's swings and roundabouts
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05:29<@planetmaker>argoneus, check the credits of OpenTTD... it will tell you his contribution. Or the readme
05:29<@planetmaker>he ported it to MorphOS and AmigaOS
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05:35<@Rubidium>we could give argoneus +q if he wants to have that ;)
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05:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27032 /trunk (6 files in 3 dirs) (2014-10-23 09:47:15 UTC)
05:47<@DorpsGek>-Merge: documentation updates from 1.4 branch
05:47<supermop>ok it was much less than an hour of light
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06:49<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by matthijs :: r27033 trunk/src/textfile_gui.cpp (2014-10-23 10:49:14 UTC)
06:49<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Codechange: Generalize GetTextfile for multiple extensions
06:49<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Instead of hardcoding the .txt extension in a printf string, it is
06:49<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: now stored in an array of possible extensions. This array still only
06:49<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: contains .txt, so behaviour is unchanged, but this makes it easier
06:49<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
06:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by matthijs :: r27034 trunk/src/textfile_gui.cpp (2014-10-23 10:49:16 UTC)
06:49<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Support .txt.gz changelog, readme and license files in basesets, newgrfs, etc
06:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by matthijs :: r27035 trunk/src/textfile_gui.cpp (2014-10-23 10:49:19 UTC)
06:49<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Support .txt.xz changelog, readme and license files in basesets, newgrfs, etc
06:50<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27036 trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp (2014-10-23 10:50:34 UTC)
06:50<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6148] (r26928): crash when changing smallmap colour when the smallmap window has not been opened yet
07:07<blathijs>TrueBrain: ^^ Why is DorpsGek prefixing your name to the first commit?
07:09<V453000>plain evil
07:10<blathijs>Claiming credit, that TrueBrain
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07:17<@peter1138>weird :)
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07:30<Celestar1>wow a commit :P
07:32<@peter1138>That happens... but not often from blathijs :)
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07:40<andythenorth>V453000: I had a stupid idea
07:40<Celestar1>heya blathijs
07:40<V453000>andythenorth: one? :D
07:40<andythenorth>just the one
07:41<andythenorth>special cargo
07:41<V453000>tell me ummediatelly
07:41<V453000>wtf is harvesters
07:41<andythenorth>I’ll do the chain
07:41<andythenorth>harvest depot -> harvesters
07:41<andythenorth>vehicle picks up (say 30t) harvesters
07:41<andythenorth>goes to farm 1
07:41<andythenorth>unloads 30t
07:41<andythenorth>farm ‘processes’
07:42<andythenorth>30 days later, it produces (a) boosted amount of crops (b) 25t harvesters
07:42<andythenorth>vehicles goes to farm 2
07:42<andythenorth>until empty
07:42<andythenorth>then goes to harvest depot
07:42<andythenorth>stupid eh? :D
07:42<V453000>quite interesting
07:42<andythenorth>vehicle could also load / unload at same farm :P
07:42<V453000>yeah that I understand
07:42<andythenorth>players would come up with mad ideas
07:42<V453000>worth try :D
07:42<andythenorth>might be stupid enough to try
07:43<V453000>I am still going batshit over nuts infrastructure
07:44<V453000>already discovered that I wont be able to make longer than 8/8 vehicles with this thing
07:44<andythenorth>what are you doing? o_O
07:45<V453000>automatically processed into spritesheet
07:45<V453000>in all 8 rotations
07:45<V453000>to save time eventually :D
07:46<andythenorth>time savers :P
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07:46<V453000>I have it almost done luckily
07:46<andythenorth>they pay off when you want to make a lot of changes
07:46<V453000>it will be super awesome, I have it flexible so I dont even have to use the full grid
07:46<andythenorth>or reuse them in multiple sets
07:46<V453000>well, sure, assuming someone also has the same software
07:46<V453000>adobe creative cloud in this case
07:47<V453000>idk how after effects compositions are backwards compatible
07:49<V453000>regardless, I will spend about 5 days with it
07:49<V453000>if I consider NUTS has 60 000 sprites, I think it will be worth it
07:50<V453000>and even if close, then convenient, not having to do all jobs at once, just first this and then just rendering stuff at will
07:50<V453000>I dont know how Pikka arranges his sprites
07:50<V453000>if he just renders 8 separate images of a train
07:50<V453000>or puts them together in photoshop or something
07:51<V453000>I just hate to see zbase repository with tons of single images
07:51<V453000>so hard to browse it
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07:52<V453000>not to mention that I can render up to 256 things at once instead of clicking RENDAR 60 000 times
07:53<supermop>andythenorth: in the US combines usually drive themselves from farm to farm
07:54<andythenorth>supermop: proposal for combine vehicle?
07:54<supermop>cargo is "harvester operator hours"
07:54<andythenorth>or diesel :P
07:54<andythenorth>but yeah
07:55<supermop>when the driver have harvested all he feels likes, back to the depot for a break
07:57<supermop>V453000: how log will that grid take to render?
07:57<supermop>long, rather
07:57<V453000>even without vehicles it is like 10 minutes
07:57<supermop>unless your rendered is wood fired
07:58<V453000>well I have multiple computers available so in worst case scenario I can even do a distributed render of one frame
07:58<V453000>but just rendering over night works
07:58<supermop>office render farm?
07:58<V453000>and area-render for previews is more than enough
07:59<V453000>but I dont think that the render times will be somehow large, lets see though
07:59<supermop>well time isnt really time if it doesnt require you there thinking about it
07:59<V453000>Vray has most time spent when you render something that is close to the camera, all of this is rather small
07:59<V453000>I have no problem pressing one button in the evening
07:59<V453000>which is the point of the postproduction infrastructure
08:00<supermop>can houses have animation or only industries?
08:00<b_jonas>supermop: I think houses can
08:00<V453000>I would rather press one button for 256 vehicles (e.g. one type of wagon with everything), rather than 1 per each
08:00<V453000>supermop: default houses have elevator on the side
08:00<V453000>so I guess they can
08:00<supermop>ah yes
08:00<supermop>soo..can it progress at one frame per 40 years or so?
08:01<V453000>interesting idea
08:01<b_jonas>what? is the animation state even saved?
08:01<supermop>too abuse it to simulate 'renovations, additions etc
08:01<V453000>it probably is
08:01<V453000>industries can start animating, stop at any point, and continue later
08:01<b_jonas>or, like, synchronized to the main game clock?
08:01<V453000>yeah nice idea
08:02<V453000>probably with ticks b_jonas :) which is game clock basically
08:02<supermop>becuase most of the housing stock around here is still 1880s, but most has be majorly renovated or added to
08:02<@planetmaker>supermop, no problem to do so with house newgrf
08:02<supermop>and i doubt a town can remember what house it is replace, and prefer new house that looks like upgrade of old
08:03<supermop>cannot type well tonight
08:03<V453000>yeah I bet that is random
08:03<supermop>ive been out most days this week and last with camer
08:03<supermop>hunting for elusive early 20th C stuff
08:03<@planetmaker>supermop, replacing a house is one thing. You have little control over that (or doing that too much would be a BAD FEATURE).
08:04<@planetmaker>But sure you can change the look of an existing house whenever you feel like
08:04<@planetmaker>if it's infrequent it might not even need animation, not sure, though.
08:04<supermop>but most stuff that shouts 1910s or 20s here is just an 1850,70, or 90s house that had the facade updated then
08:05<supermop>still have too little for new builds in those times - new builds of old houses with new facades may suffice
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08:06<supermop>and then, thats an effect of particular urban and economic conditions here - new houses were built elsewhere those decades
08:06<supermop>and the game modelling that is a very bad feature
08:07<supermop>"you transported tons of cargo this year but town will not grow at all because in real melbourne urban housing was not in vogue at this time..."
08:08<supermop>it would be could if the house set could choose to either rennovate a house or build new, but what would be the point?
08:08<b_jonas>supermop: heh, yeah. you'd have all houses built in the 1950s
08:09<supermop>b_jonas: or growth only in town zone 1 this decade, only in zone 5 next...
08:10<V453000>what is the current mechanism missing?
08:11<supermop>really though suburbs should never grow in openttd, as its a perfect world with no private cars and all powerful transit companies
08:12<supermop>V453000: i dont know - lots if i want to build a historical urban planning and construction economy simulator
08:12<supermop>but again, its more fun to play the utopian
08:12<V453000>hm ._.
08:13<V453000>you basically mean you want to rarely demolish/overbuild buildings, and update the standing ones
08:13<supermop>and if the office elevator can be used to simulate solar hot water heaters added to a 150 year old home so be it
08:13<supermop>V453000: yes
08:13<V453000>on paper it makes sense
08:13<V453000>but in the game I would just keep it as is
08:13<supermop>i can update old buildings, but if they dont survive its no use
08:13<V453000>old things will get overwritten over time
08:14<supermop>but dont want towns to become stagnate
08:14<V453000>what do you mean by that?
08:15<supermop>if all houses have a min life of 100 years or so - you'd get a good model of the average age of these neighborhoods
08:15<supermop>but really there should be more replacement than that
08:15<supermop>no one in 1900 thinks the 1880 building is special,
08:16<supermop>only people in 200
08:16<supermop>so it gets too compplex too fast?
08:17<supermop>"house has min life of 20 years, but if survives to 80, has min live of 16"
08:17<supermop>heritage listing - bad feature
08:17<V453000>I understand what you are trying to get to, and it would be nice probably
08:17<V453000>but idk if feasible / functionally rewarding
08:17<supermop>not worth it though
08:17<supermop>who would even notice
08:18<@planetmaker>supermop, you can give houses a life span of 100 years, if you want
08:18<V453000>like it cant be overbuilt for 100 years?
08:18<@planetmaker>yes, you can do that
08:18<supermop>planetmaker: can i make them easy to overbuild when young, but harder when old?
08:19<@planetmaker>also that. There's a callback which asks the house whether it allows to be destructed or not
08:19<supermop>still sounds like bad feature
08:19<@peter1138>I would like houses to last longer in general.
08:19<supermop>good for me writing an architecture theory paper, bad for every other player
08:20<@peter1138>... but I guess that messes with the growth rate.
08:20<V453000>it could work but since the best way to play with towns is with magic dozer ... :D
08:20<supermop>also id love to make linear 'zones'
08:20<V453000> /authority friendliness
08:20<supermop>that is a high street
08:20<V453000>a bit too far :)
08:21<@peter1138>TaI does it.
08:21<@peter1138>Sort of.
08:21<supermop>where shops prefer to be along the same-ish road as name tile, not just radius
08:22<supermop>again though - would be bizarre to players
08:22<@peter1138>Would it?
08:22<supermop>peter1138: i dont know
08:22<@peter1138>I find it bizarre having millions of theatres...
08:22<supermop>it would not look like TT
08:22<@peter1138>And then football stadiums that keep moving.
08:22<V453000>the question is how much better would it be compared to the random
08:23<supermop>but here you have transport corridors, trams etc
08:23<V453000>perhaps just adding a couple of variously long-life buildings would do the trick
08:23<supermop>shops along that street, apartments above, smaller houses on side street
08:23<b_jonas>sure, some types of houses have to live longer than others
08:24<supermop>thats not an inherent feature of towns
08:24<b_jonas>some cathedrals should for more than 500 years
08:24<supermop>those shop owners just built that way in response to the transit line
08:24<supermop>the tram line and the horse lines that preceeded it
08:25<supermop>peter1138: so it would be odd having those 'high streets' if the player was building in a different way
08:25<supermop>ok i have to go to bed now
08:25<V453000>bai :)
08:25<supermop>no longer in my 20s when i wake up
08:26<supermop>so who know maybe i wont care about silly houses so much
08:26<b_jonas>you could add moving circus tents that move to a different town every few months
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08:38<@planetmaker>interesting idea, b_jonas :)
08:39<argoneus>add achievements and quicktime events
08:39<argoneus>like mash B to unload coal
08:42<@peter1138>Funny how there are roads but no road vehicles...
08:42<@peter1138>Should've picked a set with horse & carts :(
08:52<@planetmaker>write a GS for that end, argoneus
08:54<argoneus>planetmaker: is that even possible?
08:56<@planetmaker>argoneus, I don't know. As I don't know the meaning of "quicktime event" nor what you mean with "mash B to ..."
08:57<argoneus>planetmaker: you don't know what a QTE is?
08:57<argoneus>I envy you
08:57<Taede>maybe playing a movie upon achieving?
08:57<argoneus>it's like when you play a game
08:57<argoneus>and there's a cutscene
08:57<argoneus>and your character falls off a cliff or something during it
08:57<argoneus>and the game says "rapidly press X to climb back up"
08:57<argoneus>and if you don't, you die
08:57<argoneus>never saw that?
08:58<@planetmaker>those are not my type of games, I guess
09:00<V453000>button mashing =D
09:00<V453000>no tanks
09:00<argoneus>no airplanes
09:00<V453000>I actually wanted to create a game that would be completely made around the logic of smashing your keys to some rhythm
09:00<V453000>no matter which keys
09:01<argoneus>so like osu?
09:01<argoneus>or guitar hero
09:01<V453000>like the type of game get your keyboard, get drunk with friends, and smash it
09:01<argoneus>or stepmania
09:01<V453000>yeah like guitar hero
09:01<argoneus>or ddr
09:01<V453000>I dont know any of those things, display just tells you what to do and you do it
09:02<argoneus>all of those do that
09:02<argoneus>osu is my favourite
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11:19*LordAro buys Civ: BE
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11:32<frosch123>or you planning on doing a live-feed here while playing it?
11:37<frosch123>is it funny that an osx compile question is answered by two guys, who have combined 50 posts, and both joined 2005 or earlier?
11:37<frosch123>or is it just a statistical fluke
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11:48<LordAro>frosch123: i could do :p
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12:30<@Rubidium>frosch123: maybe it's an omen for Bjarni returning
12:36<LordAro>Rubidium: well, there were some commits from blathijs this morning :)
12:37<@planetmaker>well, he's always around somewhat and is our official debian maintainer
12:37<LordAro>commits are not often though
12:38<@planetmaker>they were a spin-off from maintaining the package. Or so I understood :)
12:39<LordAro>it looks that way
12:39<frosch123>LordAro: it's now somewhat closer to show ottd's own readme in-game :p
12:40<LordAro>frosch123: i was going to say :)
12:40<LordAro>just the search paths which is the issue though
12:40<@Rubidium>frosch123: why? They're not compressed, are they?
12:40<frosch123>yeah, needs some configure magic
12:40<frosch123>Rubidium: on debian they would be
12:41<@Rubidium>true, but so are those of OpenGFX, OpenSFX and OpenMSX... and that's basically what this patch is for
12:41<@planetmaker>and he's right. a default install ships with a few 100MByte docs
12:42<frosch123>somewhere you lost me :)
12:44<@Rubidium>I'm at ;)
12:44<@planetmaker>ah, I said like, compression of the docs will not mean much, unless there's over 1GByte of docs. Actually that's about the size :P
12:44<frosch123>Rubidium: you are back to ipv4?
12:44<@Rubidium>the whole ipv6 tunnel thing was too unstable
12:45<@Rubidium>and my provider says it's going to introduce IPv6 in 2012
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13:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27037 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-10-23 17:13:44 UTC)
13:13<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6150] (r26878): m6 was moved from Tile To TileExtended, but it wasn't properly removed from Tile (patch by Juanjo)
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13:34<@peter1138>Let's just allocate a pointer per tile...
13:37<@Rubidium>pff... pointers are overrated
13:37<@Rubidium>virtual classes for the win!
13:43<@Rubidium>but... it's only like 4 times more memory, which is peanuts
13:43<@Rubidium>@calc 4096*4096*30/1048576
13:43<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 480
13:44<@Rubidium>merely 480 MiB
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13:45<frosch123>yeah, and vehicles should have a shared_ptr to the track, so the track cannot be destroyed while they are on it
13:45<@Rubidium>though with the added pointers for virtual classes...
13:46<frosch123>modern c++ can solve so many problems in ottd
13:46<@Rubidium>@calc 4096*4096*(64+8-10)/1048576
13:46<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 992
13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27038 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2014-10-23 17:46:24 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>belarusian - 21 changes by KorneySan
13:46<@DorpsGek>catalan - 2 changes by juanjo
13:46<@DorpsGek>czech - 14 changes by Eskymak
13:46<@DorpsGek>russian - 1 changes by KorneySan
13:46<@Rubidium>so... peanuts
13:46<+glx>3D array with tile objects ?
13:47<+glx>and magically metro can be done ;)
13:47<@Rubidium>glx: no, 2D array with objects
13:47<frosch123>how much memory does a shared_ptr need?
13:47<frosch123>i would expect something around 12 bytes
13:47<frosch123>a reference counter and a pointer to the actual data
13:48<frosch123>hmm, though, how about adding a mutex for every tile?
13:51<@peter1138>And a thread!
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14:00<@Alberth>yeah, and a little RPC, to distribute the map to the clients
14:00<frosch123>esp. the gpus of the clients
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14:13<@peter1138>Where's your other arm?
14:13<@Alberth>\o it's here
14:15<Xaroth|Work>Alberth: xmlrpc?
14:15<@Alberth>only for bonus points
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14:26<andythenorth>where is cat?
14:28<@Rubidium>Xaroth|Work: lets implement OpenTTD in XLST ;)
14:29<andythenorth>cat did something unpleasant?
14:29<@peter1138>Just wonder if it's worth making towns not spawn on tiny islands.
14:29<frosch123>ate your mouse?
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14:29<andythenorth>peter1138: I like them
14:30<andythenorth>but they always end up shrinking popn
14:30<andythenorth>also theatres
14:30<andythenorth>I did once check that theatres don’t have a higher probability by mistake :P
14:30<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: XLSt is overrated, I'll stick with just xmlrpc
14:32<andythenorth>theatres much?
14:32<andythenorth>that wasn’t a one-off
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14:36<@Rubidium>Xaroth|Work: obviously XMLRPC for the communication (sending the map state to the clients), but XLST for moving the vehicles and such
14:40<@Alberth>andy: theater-city :)
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14:51<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: you have an interesting idea there
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14:57<@Rubidium>Xaroth|Work: only thing is that XLST isn't quite suited for complex calculations
14:57<@Rubidium>unless you create countless small functions
14:58<@Rubidium>... to work around the fact that you don't have variables
14:58<@Rubidium>so it becomes more or less functional programming
15:03<FLHerne>peter1138: Tiny-island-towns are fun
15:03<andythenorth>only in theory
15:03<andythenorth>they’re not actually fun
15:03<FLHerne>They're about the only actually-practical use for passenger boats, at least with stock vehicles/costs
15:04<FLHerne>And a cute use for the little squiddy ones if being realistic
15:07<andythenorth>passenger boats are way useful in any coastal city
15:07<andythenorth>almost no infrastructure
15:13<FLHerne>Ok, only practical use for passenger boats except as glorified buses :P
15:14<FLHerne>If I keep retrospectively adding nonsensical caveats, I'll have a point eventually...
15:20<luaduck>alright, what's the best way to change string settings (like server_name) over rcon
15:20<luaduck>because if I try to execute anything with spaces I just get told how to use set
15:21<@peter1138>" "
15:21<@peter1138>or is there still the issue with double quotes... hmm
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15:24<luaduck>trying to do it over soap
15:24<luaduck>but I get the exact same issue with in-game rcon
15:30<@peter1138>Bah, custom land generators still suck :(
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17:28<@peter1138>Hmm, awkward heightmap :S
17:29<@peter1138>Should be ~ 33% water.
17:34<@peter1138>That's my imaginative naming scheme.
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18:51<jackmcbarn>when i'm using path-based signaling, i know trains will look ahead to a safe waiting place. what are the safe waiting places? i know signals are one, and i know there's more, but i don't remember them
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 24 00:00:26 2014