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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-24

---Logopened Fri Oct 24 00:00:26 2014
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02:43<@peter1138>jackmcbarn, end of the line
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03:02<usuario>what OS do you use?
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03:20<NGC3982>The good one.
03:21<NGC3982>Question: Why would i ever use the "unload" instead of "transfer"?
03:21<NGC3982>I guess there is use for it, but i have never seemed to have ..that use.
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03:30<__ln__>NGC3982: off-topic, but do you know wtf does "(så kallade) fonderade huven" mean?
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04:09<argoneus>good morning train friends
04:11<Supercheese>Silicon Valley uses cargo genitives that should be capitalized
04:11<@Rubidium>no morning for you, Supercheese?
04:12<Supercheese>when the base translation always wants them lowercase, ugh
04:14<@peter1138>Who what?
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04:15<@Rubidium>Rubidium, procrastinating
04:15<Supercheese>Perhaps I'm being overly picky on capitalization...
04:16<@Rubidium>Supercheese: but I thought Latin didn't use capitalisation
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04:16<Supercheese>It didn't. Now it does.
04:16<Supercheese>It also uses punctuation, blessedly
04:16<Supercheese>I don't know how anyone did anything without periods and commas
04:17<@Rubidium>and without spaces!
04:18<Supercheese>Uck, I don't want to think about it
04:19<Supercheese>No wonder literacy rates were so abysmally low
04:20<@Rubidium>so you'd get things like
04:21<Supercheese>He's writing in english.......
04:22<Supercheese>Saying "but the Romans hadn't W" seems a bit silly
04:22<Supercheese>"Error: Case detected in string command CARGO_LIST but the project does not allow cases"
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04:23<Supercheese>I'm not certain what to make of that, as I uses cases in CARGO_LIST just fine
04:23<Supercheese>are gamescript texts subject to different restrictions?
04:24<@Rubidium>argoneus: well, your and my nick don't exist in the classical latin alphabet
04:25<@Rubidium>and it'd be even funnier in Archaic Latin
04:26<argoneus>Rubidium: they don't?
04:26<argoneus>which letter don't they have
04:26<Supercheese>only had v
04:26<argoneus>they used V
04:27<Supercheese>anyway, he was just trying to make an analogy
04:27<@Rubidium>my nick in Greek is fun...
04:29<Supercheese>Err, not using Greek letters?
04:29<@peter1138>hai guys, i'm using a nightly, what's a development version?
04:30<@Rubidium>Ρουβίδιο <- Greek, σουβλάκι => Souvlaki, so the begin must sound like rouv
04:31<argoneus>I see "??????? <- Greek"
04:31<argoneus>thanks shell in a box
04:31<@peter1138>Thanks UTF-8.
04:32<argoneus>I have UTF 8 in irssi and in my terminal
04:32<argoneus>but shell in a box doesn't support them it seems
04:32<@peter1138>Web-based SSH?
04:32<argoneus>it connects to ssh via javascript
04:32<argoneus>because port 80 blocked at work
04:32<argoneus>er, 22
04:34<@peter1138>How would you get any work done if ssh is blocked?
04:34<argoneus>ssh to external sites
04:35<argoneus>I can ssh to internal machines
04:37<@planetmaker>@calc 4096^2 * 10 / 1024^2
04:37<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
04:37<@planetmaker>@calc 4096**2 * 10 / 1024**2
04:37<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 160
04:38<@planetmaker>@calc 1048576**2 * 10 / 1024**2
04:38<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 10485760
04:38<argoneus>@calc 1024!
04:38<@DorpsGek>argoneus: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
04:38<@peter1138>@calc !2
04:38<@DorpsGek>peter1138: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
04:39<@planetmaker>@calc fact(6)
04:39<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Error: 'fact' is not a defined function.
04:39<@planetmaker>@calc factorial(6)
04:39<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Error: 'factorial' is not a defined function.
04:39<@planetmaker>@calc fac(6)
04:39<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Error: 'fac' is not a defined function.
04:39<@planetmaker>well :)
04:40<@planetmaker>too old math plugin here :D
04:40<Supercheese>@calc 6!
04:40<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
04:40<argoneus>they didn't have factorials back then
04:40<__ln__>@calc define f(x) { if (x <= 1) return (1); return (f(x-1) * x); } f(6)
04:40<@DorpsGek>__ln__: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
04:40<argoneus>what language is this anyway
04:40<Supercheese>@help calc
04:40<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: (calc <math expression>) -- Returns the value of the evaluated <math expression>. The syntax is Python syntax; the type of arithmetic is floating point. Floating point arithmetic is used in order to prevent a user from being able to crash to the bot with something like '10**10**10**10'. One consequence is that large values such as '10**24' might not be exact.
04:41<Supercheese>Python eh
04:41<@planetmaker>Supercheese, factorial(X) is the right syntax in newer supybot. works in coop :P
04:42<Supercheese>@calc Factorial 6
04:42<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
04:42<Supercheese>Eh uncle
04:42<Supercheese>I yield
04:42<@planetmaker>@calc 1*2*3*4*5*6
04:42<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 720
04:42<argoneus>@calc 5 * x + 4 = 4 * x**2
04:42<@DorpsGek>argoneus: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
04:43<@Rubidium>planetmaker: you don't know the first 6 by heart? ;)
04:43<argoneus>I know the last 6 by heart
04:43<argoneus>by the way
04:44<argoneus>is anyone here a grand strategy fan by chance?
04:44<@planetmaker>Rubidium, no, I don't know by heart. Though quickly to do without pen&paper.
04:44<@planetmaker>not anymore I should say
04:45<@Rubidium>(not that I know them, but the first six are still easily calculatable by head)
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05:37<@peter1138>I just realised that Track Mania is basically a souped up version of Stunts/4D Sports Driving...
05:38<Eddi|zuHause><NGC3982> Question: Why would i ever use the "unload" instead of "transfer"? <- when there's an oil well near the refinery and your vehicle filled up with stuff that you have nowhere to drop off
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05:46<Quatroking>is it possible to designate station platforms for fright/passengers only?
05:47<Quatroking>I just realized that question was really silly and that I should just use seperate stations for that by holding ctrl
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>you can either use separate stations (with ctrl+click), waypoints, or you can divide the trains by length
05:48<Quatroking>Okay, second question that is hopefully less silly, is there a way to allow more than one company on a station/airport?
05:48<Quatroking>just have the companies pay taxes to the station owner or something
05:48<@peter1138>only with the infrastructure sharing patch
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>there's an ancient patch...
05:49<Eddi|zuHause>but it has various issues
05:49<__ln__>it's sad that it's ancient
05:49<Quatroking>ah, bummer
05:49<Quatroking>it'd make stuff a bit more real, here in NL the majority of train stations are owned by NS but are also used by Arriva and Thalys
05:50<Quatroking>same with the bus stops, RET, Connexxion, Arriva all share them
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could do some savegame hacking to make the stations "neutral" like oil rigs
05:51<__ln__>it would make even more sense with airports, because they are so large and i don't suppose there are any airports in the world owned and operated by one airline.
05:51<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if trains will actually use them anymore
05:51<Quatroking>__ln__, the only airports I can think of that are privately owned are the really small ones
05:51<Quatroking>then again those usually use freelance pilots
05:53<Quatroking>Schiphol in Amsterdam is partly owned by KLM, IIRC, but there's plenty other airlines that use it
05:53<Eddi|zuHause>well, what i'd actually use it for would be to transfer passengers between a local tram company and a map-wide train company
05:54<Quatroking>Yeah that's also a scenario applied to reality a lot of times
05:56<Quatroking>NS only does trains while RET, Rotterdam Electric Tram, does busses, trams and metros in the Rotterdam area and handles a lot of transfer traffic
05:56<Quatroking>In fact, I transfer from RET to NS daily whenever I'm off to uni
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06:02<Quatroking>Just looked it up, last update was in 2008 :x
06:03<Eddi|zuHause>certainly there are newer applications on some patchpack, but those usually have troubles with multiplayer compatibility
06:04<Eddi|zuHause>which kinda defeats the point :p
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06:13<argoneus>have there ever been AI competitions?
06:13<argoneus>like in starcraft
06:14<Quatroking>hey now, koreans are people too
06:14<@peter1138>I think the whole thing with NoAI started out like that.
06:14<@peter1138>It kick started the replacement of the fixed built-in AIs (there were two)
06:16<argoneus>but were there ever competitions?
06:16<argoneus>like people actually comparing their pe-- AIs?
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06:24<argoneus>oh nice
06:24<argoneus>how did choochoo win though
06:24<argoneus>that thing only makes fancy junctions and 3 length trains
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06:26<@peter1138>kinda hard to search the forums for AI :(
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06:44<NGC3982>__ln__: "Att fondera" > "To save for later", "To store money for saving or interest"
06:45<NGC3982>"Fond" > "Fund" ("Bond").
06:45<NGC3982>"Huven" is a vocabular version of "Huvuden" > "Heads" (in plural).
06:45<NGC3982>"Fonderade huven" doesn't seem to make any sense.
06:52<Eddi|zuHause>likely a case of missing context...
06:57<__ln__>NGC3982: yeah, i also get the individual words but don't get the combination... and google knows nothing. it's either some technical or economic term, i suppose. "Jobbar Ni någonting med så kallade fonderade huven?"
06:58<__ln__>NGC3982: but thanks anyway.
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07:04<argoneus>what is this terrifying language
07:06<@Rubidium>Quatroking: NS doesn't only do trains; it also does busses, e.g. in/around London
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07:09<NGC3982>__ln__: It's not an economic term. "huven" is as technical as Texan' incest.
07:11<NGC3982>What is the context?
07:14<__ln__>the context is computer hardware, software, and/or video surveillance.
07:31<NGC3982>I have no idea.
07:34<Quatroking>Rubidium, wut
07:35<Quatroking>NS as in Nederlandse Spoorlijnen?
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, DB had busses for decades
07:37<@Rubidium>Quatroking: yeah... (look at the icon right above the Abellio and the text below Abellio)
07:37<Quatroking>Oh right, of course, they also own a couple of foreign companies
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>DB has also stuff in countries like dubai
07:38<Quatroking>I thought that was a pretty generic symbol though, not just the logo of NS
07:38<Quatroking>IIRC the symbol also appears in the greatest transport simulator of ALL TIME
07:38<Quatroking>LEGO Loco
07:38<@Rubidium>Quatroking: I wonder how foreign Abellio is; mostly due to the HQ being in Utrecht
07:39<Quatroking>I wonder if the orange color is a hint towards its dutch ownership
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>abellio is a 100% subsidiary of NS
07:39<Quatroking>Abellio is directly owned
07:39<@Rubidium>well, the bus is red like all busses in London
07:40<Quatroking>heh, they also own Qbuzz
07:40<Quatroking>their busses suck though
07:40<Quatroking>still better than arriva
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>the abellio trains around here will be silver with red doors
07:41<Quatroking>Sounds very retro sci-fi
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>to off set them from the silver with green doors that the DB trains use
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>silver was mandatory by the regional supervising agency
07:42<Quatroking>do you guys recommend any AI's?
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>i recommend playing without AI
07:43<Quatroking>I'm already lonely enough in real life
07:43<@Rubidium> ;)
07:44<Quatroking>wouldn't mind playing against a few AI and have them lose horribly to boost my self-esteem
07:44<Quatroking>Right now all I use is AdmiralAI, which works okay I guess. Used TransAI before but that crashes every 2 years
07:44<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: I was more thinking about the DB Regio red trains with silver doors
07:47<Quatroking>hahaha, Rubidium, that's the exact same color scheme used here in NL on the trains
07:47<Quatroking>VIRM is my homeboy
07:47<@Rubidium>Quatroking: that flickr jpg is definitely photoshopped
07:48<Quatroking>it's a shame the ICM's can no longer open up their "heads"
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: vs.
07:49<Quatroking>in 2005 they welded the doors shut because the mechanism failed too often
07:49<Quatroking>there's only a dozen unrefurbished units around nowadays
07:49<Quatroking>even less
07:50<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: shows that I've never conciously looked at the trains in Middle "Earth" ;)
07:51<NGC3982>Quatroking: That's one cool train.
07:51<@planetmaker>Quatroking, also try NoCAB. Maybe SimpleAI. But I guess you know the AI comparison table. If not, go check our wiki for it
07:54<@peter1138>password generator...
07:54<@peter1138>Alternatively, if no one else can see your terminal now, you can
07:54<@peter1138>pick this as your password: "Narrow&demon=cock".
07:56<NGC3982>I never understood why passwords need to be generated
07:56<NGC3982>Doesn't that really go against everything smart about passwords?
07:56<@Rubidium>NGC3982: no
07:57<@Rubidium>NGC3982: the smart thing about passwords is having them unguessable. A random string of characters is most of the times extremely unguessable
07:57<NGC3982>As hard as they are to guess, they are also hard to remember
07:57<@peter1138>NGC3982, not at all. People pick crap passwords.
07:57<NGC3982>Don't tell me you can't create enough entropy with guessable passwords
07:57<@Rubidium>e.g. the Windows XP era serial numbers are perfect passwords
07:58*Rubidium still remembers the Windows XP serial...
07:58<@peter1138>Personally I use keepass to manage all my passwords.
07:59<@peter1138>32 characters of gibberish and I never see it.
08:00<NGC3982>The only password i actually change on a decent basis is the SSH and su password on my server.
08:00<@peter1138>There are some websites which still have stupid limits though :(
08:00<NGC3982>I can't say i have been a good boy with the Facebook account.
08:01<NGC3982>Our work credentials demand exactly 8 letters and digits
08:01<NGC3982>And i guess they wont change it, since the system is from the 1970's.
08:04*Rubidium dislikes policies that require a password change every 3 months
08:05<NGC3982>Welcome to my work
08:05<@Rubidium>especially when the sysadmins aren't required to change their way too easy password
08:05<NGC3982>Six different instances with six different three month valid password changes.
08:06<@Rubidium>as a result I'm now using the minimally required password length with minimal differences between the changes to not mess too much with muscle memory
08:07<@Rubidium>sadly that means that the password has become significantly easier crackable, but if IT doesn't care then why should I?
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>"wine: Call from 0x7b83cdde to unimplemented function msvcp110.dll.?length@?$codecvt@GDH@std@@QBEHAAHPBD1I@Z, aborting"... because that would have been too easy...
08:08<jackmcbarn>peter1138: thanks
08:09<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: what's TF calling?
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>no, Civ - Beyond Earth
08:11<@peter1138>Civ 5 has a native Linux version... did they fuck that up for Civ:BE?
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>it was postponed
08:11<NGC3982>Rubidium: Good point.
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>"before christmas"
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>or so
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>from a quick google search
08:12<@peter1138>My password muscle memory is enter hostname, ^C ^V, done.
08:12<argoneus>they fucked up Civ:BE already
08:12<argoneus>by reskinning civ5 into space
08:12<@Rubidium>peter1138: you mean keepass works before logging in into Windows?
08:13<@peter1138>I only have one desktop machine to log in to, and that is not Windows.
08:14<NGC3982>There is no way to make a train load full of "one cargo type", with wagons and stations that support more than two types of cargo?
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: no
08:15<@peter1138>Windows would be remote desktop, so, yeah, keepass works there.
08:15<@Rubidium>NGC3982: yes, full load any (unless you means one specific cargo type)
08:15<@Rubidium>ugh... my English is broken
08:16<NGC3982>Would be nice to send a long train to ten stations, each filling it up with cargo before leaving
08:16<NGC3982>I'll solve it with transfer trucks.
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>i've not had a lot of success with trains going to multiple stations
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>except for passengers
08:20<NGC3982>I'm not that interested in success
08:20<NGC3982>As long as it's self sustaining (ECS), i'm a happy little conductor.
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>thing is, either you have only one train, which means rating is appalling and industries close, or you have multiple trains, which means you might as well break up into separate lines which you can manage and balance out better
08:22<NGC3982>That's the fantastic thing with OpenTTD
08:22<NGC3982>I can choose not to really care about rating or money
08:22<NGC3982>(At least for a while ;))
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08:23<Eddi|zuHause>if you "don't care about rating" you should probably not play ECS
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>and i didn't bring up money...
08:24<NGC3982>How so?
08:24<NGC3982>It works out pretty nicely for me, as it is.
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't played with ECS lately, but it used to be really really sensitive to ratings
08:25<Eddi|zuHause>like, it required you to sustain >70%
08:33<NGC3982>Well, i can't say i make any decent profit
08:33<NGC3982>But it's a cosy little setup
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08:36<NGC3982>If OpenTTD would run as a good reality simulation, the Swedish scenarios would have one profitable train, and 500 trains that never earn anything. :p
08:39<@planetmaker>hm, this is wrong. 'many rivers'. Actual number of rivers generated: 0 :-(
08:46<Quatroking>planetmaker, maybe they're martian rivers
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>or saharian rivers?
08:50<__ln__>the game is missing submarines.
08:51<@planetmaker>I wished they were either
08:51<@planetmaker>__ln__, so not true!
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08:56<@planetmaker> <-- we have that sub shown in the middle of that sprite sheet ;)
08:58<__ln__>well, true, but how much cargo does it carry
08:59<@planetmaker>who knows? :)
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>drugs don't weigh all that much
08:59<@planetmaker>the real question is how much money does it ship to Tropico Island?
09:12<@peter1138>Android MTP never works ;(
09:23<Quatroking>__ln__, you know who else is missing submarines?
09:28<@peter1138>"We need a NAS with lots of storage"
09:28<NGC3982>I so want to play the new Tropico game
09:28<@peter1138>"Ok, so <this tat from ebay> with 1TB drives?"
09:28<__ln__>Quatroking: fortunately they have some of their own, though.
09:28<NGC3982>The warez did not work, and the original game did not work.
09:28<@peter1138>1TB is not lots...
09:28<NGC3982>__ln__: We are mighty proud of our subs.
09:28<NGC3982>Although, you could call the Swedish subs sort of "Scandinavian"
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>i've seen 6TB drives while i've been hunting a few months ago
09:29<NGC3982>Since our defense is not really limited to our own country.
09:29<__ln__>yes, your defense relies on finland.
09:29<Quatroking>there's a new tropico game?
09:29<@peter1138>Tropico 5 I think he means.
09:29<@peter1138>He's a bit behind the times.
09:29<NGC3982>"The latest"
09:30<@peter1138>Latest is not a version!
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>what is tropico about? never played it
09:30<NGC3982>Age of empires with assassins.
09:31<Quatroking>Eddi|zuHause, el presidente
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>never heard of that
09:31<@planetmaker>"lots" usually should be a factor of 5 more than 'random off-the-shelf product'
09:32<Quatroking>tropico really hasn't changed much in the past couple versions
09:32<Quatroking>other than graphics
09:33<Quatroking>and even those aren't the greatest around
09:35<@peter1138>planetmaker, this guy... he *always* gets prices for stuff from ebay...
09:35<@peter1138>planetmaker, completely disregarding crap like warranties, and the fact that new from a store can be cheaper
09:37<@planetmaker>hm... if I want to quickly check prices, I look at amazon rather than a 2nd-hand crap-pile like ebay
09:37<@peter1138>yes me too
09:37<@peter1138>amazon or dedicated supplier that we normally use... yeah.
09:38<@planetmaker>or I just send my local dealer an e-mail and tell him what I need and to send me an offer, possibly in one or two variations
09:41<@peter1138>Oh what a twat. Now he wants to put data and backups of that data on the same platform...
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>what could possibly go wrong...
09:49<@peter1138>Surely nothing!
09:56<@Rubidium>but... you need SSD for your NAS
09:58<@Rubidium>though shouldn't you cloudsource your storage?
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09:59<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, just don't put your naked pictures in there and you're fine
10:01<V453000>what else is storage for Eddi
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>how would i know... maybe ask the new EU commissioner for internet
10:03<@Rubidium>that person already said something stupid?
10:06*Sacro stores lots of data on Eddi|zuHause
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: that person ever said something not stupid?
10:07*Sacro is 90% sure he's German
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: you're 90% german? :p
10:10<@Rubidium>isn't a majority of Europeans German?
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>depends on how you define "majority", "european" or "german"
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the "official" definition of "German" is "a german is everyone who was living inside germany on 31.12.1937, or descendent of a german"
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>you occasionally also find 1.1.1938
10:18<@Rubidium>that definition looks too simplistic
10:24<__ln__>so e.g. the former ambassadors to berlin from all over the world and their descendants are german?
10:26<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: either my translation of that article is completely wrong, or yours is wrong
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: well, i left out a few bits.
10:27<@Rubidium>to me (1) basically says: you're German when you have the German nationality, or if you were naturalized, or when you were born or married in the area of German at 31-12-1937
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>i think you got a bit wrong there
10:29<@Rubidium>(2) is like: if your nationality was revoked between 1933 and 1945, and but you kept living in Germany then that revocation didn't happen unless you say you don't want to be a German
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10:30<Eddi|zuHause>of course law-german is generally a bit tricky
10:30<@Rubidium> <- probaby a better translation
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10:32<@Rubidium>though under that definition I'm German: I've been admitted to the territory of the German Reich ;)
10:34<@Rubidium>(but the original German is somewhat clearer/verbose on the admitted part, so under the actual definition I'm not)
10:34<@Rubidium>though it's still kinda weird
10:35<@Rubidium>*if* I were have a kid now, then marry a German... that kid would become German as well. After all, I become German because of "spouse", and since I am then German my children "descendants" would become German as well
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10:37<Eddi|zuHause>although i read somewhere that the "descentent" part of a child must be declared before the age of 23
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if this applies to this case
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: anyway, it may be a bit simplistic, and i further simplified it, but e.g. it means that austrians are not german
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>funnily enough, by that definition, east-german citizens could get west-german passports and stuff
10:40<Sacro>Rubidium: don't think that's how it works
10:40<Sacro>my stepmum moved from Ukraine to England, but even though she got citizenship via marriage, her eldest daughter didn't
10:41<@Rubidium>arguably England's article 116 is different
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: there's also the bit in article 116 that says "unless a more specific law says otherwise"
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: so there may be some more complicated rules
10:42<@Rubidium>ah well...
10:43<@Rubidium>not all Dutch are European; that's something I'm sure of
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: besides, england probably has even worse excuse of a "constitution" than germany...
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: dutch overseas territories?
10:44<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: amongst others
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably even worse with french overseas territories
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10:44<Eddi|zuHause>where some are european, and others aren't
10:44<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: we have no constitution
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: exactly
10:45<Quatroking>does a mod exist that adds hover vehicles
10:45<Quatroking>like, hover cars and hover trucks
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: germany doesn't either, but it has this sad excuse of a "provisionary founding law"
10:45<@Rubidium>mostly because there are 3 overseas countries that get a Dutch passport but don't vote for Parliament (and get the Aruban guilder), and 3 overseas municipalities that are part of the Netherlands and vote for Dutch Parliament / Prime minister (they use USD)
10:46<@Rubidium>so the Dutch situation might even be more fucked up than the French situation
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10:50<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: something like ?
10:51<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: I was more thinking about
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11:09<V453000>where do I put the file path to alternative sprites?
11:09<V453000>can it be in the template?
11:10<V453000>for YETI I have it that way but there is only one sprite, here are 8
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11:10<V453000>OR can I apply that template and put the file name here? alternative_sprites (spriteset_train_magfast4, ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP){(template template_32bpp_engine8(0)}
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>afaik, each of the [] lines can have an individual file name
11:10<V453000>I guess the answer is yes so I ask where :D
11:11<V453000>so I just put the filename as the last parameter
11:11<V453000>like ,y where y is filename
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, something like that
11:11<V453000>thanks :)
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>if in doubt, look at the specs :)
11:14<V453000>problem is I wasnt in doubt, just confused as hell :P
11:15<V453000>when you are in doubt you are considering option A vs option B, I had option X all over everywhere
11:15<Sylf>[(left_x, upper_y, width, height, )offset_x, offset_y(, flags)(, filename)(, mask)]
11:15<@peter1138>Even the - and | views are 128x128? :P
11:15<Sylf>yup, that [] block can have file name
11:19<V453000>death XD it worked
11:20<V453000>aha I guess (, mask) will be for CC recolouring?
11:20<Sylf>it's for crop/nocrop
11:20<V453000>true that doesnt make sense
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>errr... "flags" is for "crop/nocrop"
11:21<V453000>btw I have completed my infrastructure which makes 256x8 1-click-render give me a png spritesheet with size of 1024*32768 XD
11:21<V453000>small png
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>you probably want "crop" :p
11:23<V453000>great (: serious nuts progress to come soon
11:24<V453000>for now, cyaz :)
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>"25 out of 130 banks failed the stress-test"... well, it's not like a failed bank could ruin the whole world economy
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12:57<Eddi|zuHause>in all this time, i've still not understood WAS...
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13:01<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: regarding failed banks... the Federal Reserve and ECB are probably the worst w.r.t. balance
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13:02<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i don't even begin to understand what they are actually doing
13:03<@Rubidium>you have a debt? Okay, I'll give you some money from our money jar (/dev/zero)
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: or /dev/urandom?
13:05<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: that would add value to the money
13:07<@Rubidium>generally the EU governments and USA can't create money themselves
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>well, the entire point of money is that it doesn't HAVE value, it only REPRESENTS value?
13:07<@Rubidium>although in the US, the government is allowed to mint its own coins... loophole: 1 trillion dollar coin
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>and the point of the ECB/fed is to make sure there's enough money going around so it actually circulates?
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: they didn't actually do that?
13:08<@Rubidium>the mandate of the FED and ECB differs
13:09<@Rubidium>for the ECB it's essentially trying to keep the inflation at 2%, and pushing/pulling enough money to make that happen
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>and the value that each piece of money represents changes, which is called "inflation"
13:10<@Rubidium>inflation is tricky
13:10<@Rubidium>value of *only* oil drops significantly, and you can already get deflation while the other prices rise
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>inflation also gets tricky when instances other than the ECB try to actively influence it
13:11<@Rubidium>in the NLs we seem to only have just a bit of inflation because entities that rent houses to others may rise the price with inflation + 1.5% a year, which creates a nice positive feedback loop
13:12*peter1138 likes the low interest rate at the moment, though.
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>there are always people who benefit more from low interest rates, and others who benefit more from high interest rates
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>like after WWI it was considered better for the economy to have high inflation rate, because it effectively lowers the cost of manual labor
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>... until that got totally out of hand
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>... with prices doubling every week
13:15<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: the *idea* moment to buy a house
13:15<@Rubidium>after a week your debt essentially halved
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>there are stories of people who sold their house to move to america, and when they arrived in hamburg, the money they got for the house didn't even cover the fee for the ship
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>also, in this time the phrase got coined "it's better to found a bank than to rob a bank"
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>or people that hijacked a money transport took the truck and left the money on the street
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27039 /trunk/src/lang (irish.txt latvian.txt) (2014-10-24 17:45:29 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>irish - 123 changes by tem
13:45<@DorpsGek>latvian - 77 changes by Parastais
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13:56<andythenorth>no cat?
13:56<@Rubidium>andythenorth: it's over there ->
13:57<andythenorth>less than 1m views?
13:57<andythenorth>I thought it was illegal to have < 1m views for a cat video on YT?
13:57<andythenorth>I’m pretty certain they have a ‘haz cat’ algorithm that simply awards views to eligible videos
14:00<andythenorth>I do try to not be a dick about forum stuff
14:00<andythenorth>but wtf? 1048576 x 1048576 maps?
14:00<andythenorth>who the fuck ever needs that to aid playing the game for fun?
14:01<andythenorth>that’s 1 trillion tiles?
14:01<@Rubidium>you only need 10 TiB for the map
14:01<@Rubidium>so... no Windows!
14:01<andythenorth>4096*4096 is only 16 million tiles
14:01<andythenorth>is the guy actually a moron?
14:02<@peter1138>Who's asking for 1048576?
14:02<andythenorth>or is it just a typo?
14:03<andythenorth>also, frigging daylength
14:03<andythenorth>why is daylength good?
14:03<andythenorth>is there anything on the internet today, or shall I read a book?
14:03<andythenorth>I have watched today’s cat video
14:04<@peter1138>I guess you need time to pass really slowly to fill the 1048576*1048576 map...
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the patch never allowed 1mx1m, it only allowed _one_ dimension this large, if the other is really small
14:04<Sylf>where does the number 1048576 come from?
14:04<Sylf>is it actually a clean 2^X?
14:04<andythenorth>probly mistake in that case
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 2**20
14:04<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 1048576
14:05<Sylf>hm, kinda weird number...
14:05<andythenorth>power of 2
14:05<frosch123>that patch used to only limit the number of tiles to uint32 TileIndex
14:05<frosch123>so 1048576*16 was possible
14:05<@peter1138>I'm not sure what's worse, that he wants it, or that there's already a patch to do it...
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>Sylf: you just have not enough powers of two memorized :p
14:05<frosch123>though i have no idea how that worked with vehicle coordinates
14:05<andythenorth>I am assuming he’s about 12
14:05<@peter1138>frosch123, probably badly :)
14:05<andythenorth>so we’ll forgive
14:06<frosch123>either they were increased to int64, or that patch was buggy as hell, which wouldn't surprise me
14:06<Sylf>my memory stopped at 65536 :D
14:06<andythenorth>I find forums are much better if you assume most people are < 18
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: err, 2^20*2^12 = 2^32
14:06<andythenorth>on the other hand my experience of forum’s for adult lego fans suggests that some people just seem < 18
14:06<@peter1138>andythenorth, I have a habit of assuming pretty much everyone on the Internet is about 12.
14:06<andythenorth>whilst being mid 30s
14:06<andythenorth>peter1138: valid
14:07<frosch123>@calc 2**31 / 64
14:07<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 33554432
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14:08<Sylf>I'm actually curious to see just 1 map that's reasonablly full in that 1048576x1048576 space
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: even if you limit to 2^31 for... reasons, then the other dimension would still be 2^11=2024
14:08<Sylf>or even 4096x4096 map even
14:09<frosch123>hmm, yeah, no idea then
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>Sylf: even a 2048x1024 very sparse map i only connected half the map
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>funnily, it was full length along the long edge, and only halfway on the other edge
14:10<frosch123>hmm, i also thought we limited mapsize to 4k, to not exceed 15bit vehicle coordinates, but they are int32 anyway
14:10<Sylf>if I divide 4096x4096 into 1024^2 squares and fill each square with 1 company, I'd fill up 15/16 of the map...
14:10<frosch123>so, i am all over confused
14:10<Sylf>that's a lifetime project
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: there is no actual reason for a 4k limit
14:11<frosch123>but hmm, let's say there are some bits for more detailed vehicle coords
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i think the next actual limit is the newgrf variable that stores the map size
14:11<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: there was, but it may have been wrong
14:12<frosch123>we decided against 8k for some reason, because of some int16 issue
14:12<frosch123>but i don't know where
14:13<@peter1138>Is there one? heh
14:13<frosch123>but well, it's big enough; the only ones who want it bigger will always want it bigger
14:13<@peter1138>Isn't "4096 is already too bloody big" a good enough reason? :D
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>i don't want to look up that newgrf stuff now... but it was something like 4 bit to store exponent-6
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14:14<Eddi|zuHause>which sounds too large
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>which means i'm probably wrong
14:14*peter1138 ponders revisiting his evil plan to increase tile resolution beyond 16.
14:14<frosch123>@calc 2*(15+6)
14:14<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 42
14:14<frosch123>@calc 2**(15+6)
14:14<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 2097152
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>oh, no, it also stored "x+y-12" or so
14:15<frosch123>8 bits for x+y-12
14:15<frosch123>4 bits for x-6
14:18<@peter1138> 17 static const uint TILE_PIXELS = 32; ///< a tile is 32x32 pixels
14:18<@peter1138>uh huh
14:19<@peter1138>tiles are 32x32 pixels... yes... right...
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: or maybe it was 3 bits?
14:19<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: no, i actually looked at the code
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>i don't even find the variable number...
14:20<frosch123>peter1138: it actually is :p
14:20<@peter1138>64x31 is... more normla.
14:21<frosch123>if you shovel the pixels around into a horizontal rectangle, you get 32x32 pixels
14:21<frosch123>of 64x32 only half of the pixels belong to the tile
14:21<b_jonas>but many tiles will be larger because they raise above the ground
14:21<b_jonas>but yeah, they cover 32x32 of ground
14:22<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: newgrf.cpp:6469
14:22<V453000>the fuck, discussing even bigger map than 4k? :D
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: in one row of tiles each tile is 64 pixels apart, but the next row is overlapping, and offset by 32 pixels
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: this discussion will always be going on.
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: every two weeks, another person will demand a bigger map
14:23<V453000>for no real use though :)
14:23<@peter1138>Can't have everyone competing for the same resources...
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: this is independent of what size the maximum is
14:23<V453000>yes Eddi :)
14:24<V453000>perhaps loading a fuckload of 32Bpp newGRFs could force more people to play SMALLER maps XD
14:24<b_jonas>V453000: ah, good idea!
14:25<b_jonas>hmm no, I don't think it works like that
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: people also demand more NewGRFs
14:25<V453000>oh right
14:25<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: you mean, the only thing they do not demand is more smartness?
14:25<@peter1138>Sorry, I should never have allowed multiple vehicle sets :S
14:26<V453000>idk how much cpu havoc can yeti do :)
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that would require people admitting they're not smart
14:26<frosch123>V453000: you are merely adding a challenge to make it run smoothly
14:26<frosch123>no progression without a good reason to do it
14:26<b_jonas>And just like with any other program, people will demand multi-threading and gpu acceleration because those are trendy buzzwords.
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: there were "sets" containing single aircraft even before that
14:27<frosch123>true, why did peter not add png9 style gui zoom? :p
14:27<V453000>shit sets, nuff sed Eddi :P
14:28<frosch123>hmm, or is it called "nine-patch"?
14:28<frosch123>anyway, it means cutting a image into nine pieces, and not scaling the corners, and scaling the edges only along one axis
14:28<frosch123>which works for rectangular gui buttons to not scale the bevels, but the interior
14:28<@peter1138>Oh, I see.
14:29<@peter1138>That's... not really useful.
14:29<frosch123>there was some guy on the forums suggesting to add that popular andriod technique to ottd
14:29<@peter1138>Ok... because? :p
14:29<frosch123>i flamed him :)
14:29<V453000>"there was a guy on the forums suggesting...."
14:29<V453000>what a sentence XD
14:29<@peter1138>How would it scale? :s
14:29<b_jonas>have people started to demand intermediate zoom levels between the doubling steps yet?
14:30<@peter1138>b_jonas, always
14:30<frosch123>b_jonas: yes, planetmaker for once :p
14:31<andythenorth>“common sense is not in common supply” <- quote I saw once
14:32<andythenorth>I need gui zoom 1.5 btw
14:33<@peter1138>You can do that the old way.
14:33<andythenorth>just saying
14:33<frosch123>that's also what pm asked for :p
14:33<V453000>1,3457 gui?
14:33<@peter1138>Just provide 1.5x size sprites...
14:33<frosch123>V453000: you mean 3.14159 ?
14:33<V453000>vector gui
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: perfectly viable if we switch to svg :)
14:33<V453000>NO frog :D
14:33<andythenorth>font icons
14:33<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: :
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>@calc (1+sqrt(5))/2
14:34<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 1.61803398875
14:35<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: make a patch to scale error windows to that ratio
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but they are red error windows, not golden error windows
14:36<frosch123>gold is over-rated
14:36<V453000>slugs rule
14:36<frosch123>and historically there has been a lot of red about gold
14:37<V453000>no red bout slugs
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>historically, a lot of things were red that aren't red anymore
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>like... orange
14:37<frosch123>unless you add gta style graphics to level crossing
14:38<frosch123>you know, slugs driving over slow unicorns on level crossing
14:41<V453000>wtf is gta style crossing
14:42<frosch123>what is the main thing to play gta < 3 ?
14:43<frosch123>... to find the tank and drive through the town and leaving red circles behind everywhere
14:43<V453000>K :D
14:44<frosch123>are you too young to have played gta < 3 ?
14:45<frosch123> <- horrible music in the background, but that's the game i mean
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>steering the tank is horrible :p
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15:39<Wolf01>hi o/
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15:45*andythenorth considered adding Yeti supportt
15:45<andythenorth>but the sets I’m doing are super-realisms :|
15:52<frosch123>just make the yetis look realistic
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15:53<frosch123>e.g. make them sit on the wagon, and give them safety belts
15:53<andythenorth>yeti’s don’t have animated rivets :(
15:53<andythenorth>yetis *
15:53<andythenorth>bloody ‘
15:56<V453000>andythenorth: if your set only has not-realistic YETI cargo, it will also be not-realistic only when YETI is loaded ;)
15:56<V453000>that implies it is correct
15:57<V453000>frosch123: I played all of the GTAs :D actually I am not young enough to even try 4, didnt care anymore
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>i only played GTA 1
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16:02<andythenorth>you have to compile newgrfs, not just change the src :P
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16:04<andythenorth>stupid FIRS supply requirements
16:06<fonsinchen>andythenorth, thanks for the machine
16:06<andythenorth>it arrived? :)
16:06<andythenorth>in one piece?
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16:09<fonsinchen>seems so.
16:09<fonsinchen>It won't recognize that USB stick for installation, though.
16:10<andythenorth>oh :|
16:10<fonsinchen>It probably wants me to burn that .cdr file on a DVD
16:11<andythenorth>I didn’t set it up - our office manager did it :)
16:11<andythenorth>I was hoping we could avoid you having to get hold of OS X DVD for dev tools and such
16:14<fonsinchen>xcode is normally not included. You have to install it separately anyway. And maybe I can use your USB stick for installation after all ... with some preparation
16:17<andythenorth>does the machine boot?
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16:19<fonsinchen>sure, to the point where it searches for an OS and doesn't find one ...
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16:19<fonsinchen>On the USB stick there is a dvd image it seems, as file
16:19<andythenorth>oh sorry, I thought we’d installed an OS
16:20<fonsinchen>so if I just dd that to the raw storage on the stick it might work
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16:20<Quatroking>I am Quatroking, and #openttd is my new favorite autojoin channel of the IRC
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16:38<Quatroking>to update my existing openttd install I just install 1.4.4 over it, right
16:39<Sylf>yes, or download zip file and unzip over the existing files
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16:43<@peter1138>Super! Cheese!
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16:53<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: what i wanted to say... have you considered making a genitive_uppercase and a genitive_lowercase case?
16:53<Supercheese>That would certainly work, but ugh it would be quite the hack
16:54<@Rubidium>*or* maybe something generic?
16:54<Supercheese>First I have to figure out why it won't allow cases in the gamescript translation
16:54<@Rubidium>{UPPER}{CARGO} or {LOWER}{CARGO} which changes the case for the first character
16:55<andythenorth>farms need 56t supplies, mines need 84t
16:55<@Rubidium>(no idea how/whether this works for Arabic)
16:55<andythenorth>so mines would go nicely with 42t vehicles
16:55<Supercheese>{CARGO_LIST} refuses to accept cases
16:55<andythenorth>but farms need 56t
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: they probably have to be enabled somewhere/matched to the openttd cases
16:55<andythenorth>stupid FIRS
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: at least that's how it works for newgrfs
16:55<Supercheese>I see
16:56<@Rubidium>Supercheese: {CARGO_LIST} should accept cases
16:56<Supercheese>Yes, it does in the base game translation
16:56<Supercheese>but Silicon Valley may require some extra work to enable it as Eddi|zuHause said
16:56<Supercheese>eints claims, "Error: Case detected in string command CARGO_LIST but the project does not allow cases"
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>it might also be an eints bug.
16:57<@Rubidium>Supercheese: there are no cases defined for the siliconvalley translation it seems
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>or missing feature
16:59<Quatroking>how do I remove content that I downloaded
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>find the file on the hard disk and delete it
17:00<Quatroking>that.. doesn't really sound user-friendly
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>or just ignore it and don'T activate it
17:00<andythenorth>bloody FIRS
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>the person who made firs must be an idiot
17:05<andythenorth>I could allow a size refit
17:05<andythenorth>42 / 56 / 84
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>what about 28?
17:06<@Rubidium>what about 70?
17:07<andythenorth>28 would be logical
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>i think this is opening a can of worms
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>just make one vehicle carry 30 and the other 90
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>and let them piece it together
17:09<andythenorth>they’ll complain
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>so either you use 2x30 for a farm, 3x90 for a mine, or you just make 90 and be done with it
17:09<andythenorth>about the lack of optimisation
17:09<andythenorth>and the waste
17:09<andythenorth>they’re always fricking complaining about wasted supplies
17:09<andythenorth>and timetabling and crap
17:09<@Rubidium>yes... they want monthly timetables...
17:09<andythenorth>90 is a nice number though
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>you fail the rule of thumb: only 1% of the users ever visit the forum, and only 1% of those complain about anything
17:10<@Rubidium>but to be certain you need to deliver every 28 days
17:10<@Rubidium>@calc 365/28
17:10<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 13.0357142857
17:10<andythenorth>I might just cripple supplies
17:10<andythenorth>I seriously considered an easy mode
17:11<andythenorth>deliver once a year, get full production
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: ic111's timetable patch allows to put in padding days so it'll align with the month
17:11<@Rubidium>so you have *one* delivery too many anyhow... so say 28 which is already more than you'd lose by delivering two supplies too much
17:11<andythenorth>but then the players who obsess about stupid timetables would play ‘hard’
17:11<andythenorth>boxed myself into a corner with this :D
17:12<andythenorth>they’re trying to optimise delivery, I’m trying to optimise player whining
17:12<andythenorth>who’s sillier? :D
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you, because you're fighting the lost cause
17:15<fonsinchen>andythenorth, you should tell your IT guy that those disk images are supposed to be "burnt", not "copied". That also holds if you put them on USB sticks ...
17:15<andythenorth>yeah :|
17:15<andythenorth>I did tell them that
17:15<andythenorth>they’re not so much IT guys as office managers :)
17:16<andythenorth>that means peter1138 will have the same problem :P
17:16<andythenorth>I bet they didn’t have and DVD-Rs, and thought it would work
17:16<andythenorth>we never have DVDs around any more
17:17<andythenorth>is the USB image an iso you can burn?
17:17<fonsinchen>meh, it still doesn't work. Recognizes the USB stick as install medium, but doesn't install
17:17<fonsinchen>There is an iso file on the USB stick
17:18<@Rubidium>andythenorth: ask Roy?
17:18<fonsinchen>You can copy that off and dd it back to the USB stick. Then the mac will recognize it
17:18<andythenorth>but then it won’t install?
17:18<fonsinchen>It does some "spinning" and ultimately shows that circle with line through thing it also shows when it doesn't find any OS
17:19<fonsinchen>maybe I have to make a partition table and put the data into a partition
17:19<andythenorth>got any other macs?
17:20<andythenorth>I’m just wondering if that one actually has a HD in it :P We strip them out for infosec reasons
17:20<andythenorth>I assume it does
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17:21<fonsinchen>It shows a HD when holding alt during boot
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17:21<andythenorth>sounds about right
17:22<andythenorth>sorry it’s a hassle
17:22<andythenorth>if you can’t figure it out we’ll burn a DVD and mail it
17:22<andythenorth>or linux it :P
17:25<fonsinchen>I've managed to do this before, with a different mac. It was a pain, though. I needed a firewire disk
17:25<fonsinchen>It seems Intel macs should be able to boot from USB, though
17:26<andythenorth>I have done the FW thing many times
17:26<andythenorth>if you’re lucky it’s at least USB 2
17:26<andythenorth>but might be USB 1
17:28<fonsinchen>nah, USB1 is 90s
17:28<fonsinchen>This thing is newer
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>i've never in my life seen a USB1 port
17:30<andythenorth>had one
17:30<andythenorth>2 even
17:30<andythenorth>like staring into the future
17:31<Wolf01>i have an old pc with a USB1 expansion card (2 ports), and even a pc without USB
17:32<@peter1138>I had a motherboard that was advertised as having USB21.
17:32<@peter1138>It didn't, so a PCI card was shoved in the box...
17:32<andythenorth>is all I’m saying
17:33<andythenorth>dire warnings about even touching the cable whilst the £500 scanner was plugged into the mac
17:33<Wolf01>ISA, I still have a network card somewhere which is bigger than most new motherboards
17:33<andythenorth>even wiggling it could allegedly destroy both mac and peripheral
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17:37<@Rubidium>SCSI... that's the thing with yearly wider connectors, right? ;)
17:38<andythenorth>except for micro SCSI
17:38<andythenorth>or something
17:38<andythenorth>huge connector anyway
17:38<andythenorth>and all the devices must be powered up before the computer
17:38<andythenorth>and you have to set IDs
17:39<andythenorth>and the controller chips die if you even look at them funny
17:39*Rubidium primarily remembers disks spinning up one after another
17:39<@Rubidium><aircraft taking off>
17:39<@Rubidium><another aircraft taking off>
17:40<andythenorth>then FW happened and spoilt all the fun
17:41<andythenorth>and you could plug in your video camera without having to send away tapes to be digitised and sent back on a CD
17:41<andythenorth>and now look
17:43<andythenorth>also bedtime
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17:45<Wolf01>what really makes me laugh is that on old HDDs, if a blackout happened, the heads would have crash-landed on the disks, carving them to death, then they added some capacitors and the problem was solved... on ealry SDDs the hystory repeated...
17:46<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: looks like a stupid license because you only need one to "remove" the license
17:52<@Rubidium> <- definitely a boys club under that license
17:52<@Rubidium>but I digress and play along with the troll ;)
17:53<Quatroking>ah, openttd, where cities are okay with you destroying half the landscape as long as you plant fancy trees for them
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18:00<Quatroking>"can't clear this area.. bum county local authorities refuse to allow this"
18:00*Quatroking plants trees
18:00<Quatroking>and away goes the bridge!
18:02<Wolf01>it's by design :)
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18:04<fonsinchen>for the record: putting the OSX install image into a partition on the USB stick helps.
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 25 00:00:27 2014