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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-25

---Logopened Sat Oct 25 00:00:27 2014
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02:50<andythenorth>o/
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03:10<andythenorth>where is cat?
03:10<andythenorth>or Eddi|zuHause
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05:01<George>What does nmlc ERROR: Unable to allocate ID for [random]switch, sprite set/layout/group or produce-block. Try reducing the number of such blocks. mean?
05:06<George>anybody here?
05:06<V453000>hm
05:06<V453000>I had a similar error with vehicle IDs
05:06<V453000>solution was to re-order the code, not necessarily reduce amoutn of the things
05:06<V453000>OR your random has too many outputs?
05:07<George>Do you know a way to reuse switch IDs? In NFO it was rather simple - just re use the number
05:07<V453000>I have no clue sorry :d
05:08<George>In NFO there was //@@CLEARACTION2
05:09<George>I suppose there should be something similar for NML
05:09<George>But where to read about it?
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05:33<George>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7264
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>George: NMLC automatically reuses IDs, but if the structure of your code is wrong, it must keep to many IDs "alive" at the same time and runs out
05:39-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0085a2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
05:39<George>Any idea how to tell him that some IDs are not required since "this line" and should be reused?
05:40<Eddi|zuHause>George: that is also done automatically
05:40<Eddi|zuHause>George: which means you actually do use it again later
05:40<George>Then how to make it co compile xUSSR set?
05:41<George>How can I check that?
05:41<Eddi|zuHause>not sure
05:42<George>Who can help?
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>in such cases i usually turn python into debug mode, but that's probably not what you want :)
05:42<George>I do not know how to do that
05:43<George>May be you could dowload xUSSR set from devzone and try it it on your side?
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>you can also try commenting out parts of the code, and look at the nfo output
05:44<George>look for what? What should I find in these 217k lines of code?
05:45<Eddi|zuHause>used IDs that are building up
05:46<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i'm getting some kind of merge conflict... what's that about...
05:50<George>Is there a way to find, what ID it can't allocate?
05:51<George>and what is the limit for IDs used (alive)? 256? 65536? other?
05:52<Eddi|zuHause>i think it's 256
05:53<George>As I can see, the output NFO file has an old date. That meants I can see only the NML that causes error, but not the nfo generateid til error
05:53<Eddi|zuHause>George: these "is not referenced" warnings are normal?
05:53<George>yes
05:53<George>It says they are ignored, isn't it?
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05:54<George>These are sprites for future use
05:54<George>Not used at the moment
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05:55<Eddi|zuHause>just checking, whether it's my fault or anything
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>so it fails at sprite number 49769
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>whatever that is
05:59<Eddi|zuHause>of 87533
05:59<George>and what id ints NML name?
05:59<George>how can I find ir?
05:59<George>it
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm, seems the nml references are forgotten at this point
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06:19<Eddi|zuHause>oh there it is: 'flatbed_11_n004_g13_food_35_sprites - feature 00'
06:23<fonsinchen>meh, apple used to have XCode 4.x available for snow leopard but you cannot get it anymore. The last Xcode for snow leopard you can get on their website is 3.2.6
06:23<fonsinchen>how silly is that ...
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>you lost me at "apple"
06:24<fonsinchen>well, someone has to endure that stuff to make our mac fans happy ...
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06:31<fonsinchen>3.2.6 should be OK for compiling openttd, though. Last time I tried it even worked with 2.5
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06:40<andythenorth_>Ho
06:41*V453000 is lost
06:41*V453000 is actually browsing real train blueprints
06:42<andythenorth_>Wtf
06:42<andythenorth_>This isn't the right channel
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06:43<Eddi|zuHause>George: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pblwbslp7 <-- these are the sprite numbers it assigns IDs for, then it runs out
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>George: it actually assigns the IDs backwards, so it starts at 255 and when it arrives at 0 it runs out
06:45<V453000>kind of figured it is easier to at least start with blueprints when making a model
06:45<V453000>assuming it should have some level of detail
06:46<andythenorth_>Just invent it?
06:46<andythenorth_>What kind of train?
06:46<V453000>all of them :D
06:47<V453000>inventing where door, wtf, wtf, wtf is, is hard
06:47<andythenorth_>:p
06:48<andythenorth_>So FIRS farms, I'm going to change the production
06:48<andythenorth_>The mines will stay same
06:49<andythenorth_>In my game it's the farms that are annoying
06:49<andythenorth_>Want it to be more stable
06:52<andythenorth_>Maybe longer supply delivery window?
06:52<andythenorth_>Or smaller requirements
06:52<andythenorth_>Also smaller boost
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what you mean with annoying
06:53<frosch123>andythenorth_: make the boosts configurable :)
06:54<andythenorth_>Maybe yes
06:54<andythenorth_>I'll have to touch the production code anyway
06:54<andythenorth_>Needs a bit of thought about what to change
06:56<@peter1138>Change the narrow demon cock
06:56<andythenorth_>Yup
06:56<andythenorth_>That should fix it
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06:57<Wolf01>hello
06:57<andythenorth_>Eddi annoying = tedious yak shaving for supply delivery
06:57<andythenorth_>A
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06:58<andythenorth_>Also highly fluctuating production
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06:59<andythenorth_>Amplified by the clusters
06:59<Quatroking>Do snow maps not get oil rigs?
06:59<frosch123>nope, unless you use a newgrf
07:00<Quatroking>oh, okay
07:00<Quatroking>just noticed I was already in 71 and hadn't seen any
07:00<frosch123>like ogfx+industries
07:00<frosch123>Quatroking: otoh, oil wells do not run out
07:00<Quatroking>oh neat
07:02<andythenorth_>Bbl
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07:06<@peter1138>Bah, still not happy with my custom terrain :S
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>uhm... i don't get this...
07:08<@peter1138>Sup?
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>(Pdb) p [a for a in x if a.id==0][-1]
07:08<Eddi|zuHause><nml.actions.action2real.Action2Real object at 0x7ff279257050>
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>(Pdb) p [[a for a in x if a.id==n][-1] for n in y]
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>*** NameError: global name 'x' is not defined
07:10<Wolf01>I can't even understand what kind of sorcery is that :P
07:10<@peter1138>I... don't even know what language that is.
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>that is python
07:13<@Rubidium>might the other for loop shadow the x?
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>but shadowing would result in the wrong object to be accessed, not in a name error
07:14<@Rubidium>well, I could imagine that the internal representation uses 'x' but since it is external, it marks it as 'undefined' causing that error
07:20<@peter1138>Hmm, crikey, my terrain generator is 8KB :(
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07:20<@Rubidium>if it's a stand alone terrain generator, then it seems not that big
07:21<supermop>hi
07:21<@Rubidium>assuming it's kilobytes, not Kelvinbytes
07:21<@peter1138>Hah
07:21<@peter1138>It contains one traditional perlin algorithm (not the one we have)
07:22<@peter1138>A "fault" algorithm
07:22<@peter1138>And then stuff like sealevel finder and stuff to make mountains better.
07:23<@peter1138>Oh, and png writing code.
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>the code was always designed to handle more terrain generators, just nobody ever implemented any
07:23<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, not really.
07:23<@peter1138>Just easy enough to do as you have source :p
07:24<fonsinchen>The IGNORE_UNINITIALIZED_WARNING stuff doesn't work with gcc 4.2.1
07:26<@peter1138>Cool, that's only 7 years old.
07:27<@Rubidium>stock gcc for 10.4?
07:27<fonsinchen>That's what you get on OSX 10.6
07:27<@Rubidium>should that have clang?
07:28<fonsinchen>it has, but our configure likes gcc better
07:29<@peter1138>CC=clang CXX=clang++ ./configure
07:29<@peter1138>or something
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>remember when we supported compilation on gcc 2.ancient?
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07:34<fonsinchen>This is the only problem I'm seeing with gcc 4.2 and it's only warnings. We can probably add another condition around that macro
07:34<argoneus>good morning train friends
07:36<supermop>you still havve a server argoneus ?
07:36<argoneus>yes
07:39<supermop>what version is it running now?
07:42<supermop>do people run nightly servers?
07:43<argoneus>yes
07:43<argoneus>and 1.4.3
07:43<@Rubidium>Brianetta does
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>like, 8 years ago? :p
07:45<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/hm3.png
07:45<@peter1138>Well... that's different.
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07:47<@Rubidium>peter1138: it's not really pretty at 63 heightlevels anymore
07:47<@peter1138>I was using 31.
07:47<@peter1138>I think you need *massive* maps for more.
07:48<@Rubidium>yeah, then it looks reasonable
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07:52<@peter1138>Rubidium, there's 4 rounds of perlin noise on that :S
07:52<@peter1138>Combined in different ways.
07:53<andythenorth>is there a ghost face in it?
07:53<fonsinchen>I see bin laden in there
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>is that like seeing jesus on a toast?
07:54<Wolf01>there's a cat on the bottom left
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>has this turned into a Rorschach test?
07:56<Wolf01>I would like to unleash the full power of MHL by drawing another alpine map, but my finger doesn't like what I want it to do :(
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07:57<andythenorth>I drew some maps once
07:57<andythenorth>big rivers and stuff
07:57<andythenorth>rubbish
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>somebody made a switzerland map here http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=6404&pid=87147#pid87147
07:58<Wolf01>if only i were able to draw nice heightmaps...
07:59<@peter1138>A lot of these heightmaps are scaled to only have very very levels
07:59<@peter1138>Means they suck when you scale it up.
08:00<Wolf01>is there any way to draw an heightmap by hand?
08:01<supermop>mspaint
08:01<Wolf01>I always seen them taken from real maps of 3d landscapes
08:01<Wolf01>*or
08:01<supermop>charcoal and a scanner
08:02<andythenorth>just draw
08:02<andythenorth>then add noise or blur
08:03<JacobD88>Charcoal and a Scanner i did actually try once :)
08:03<andythenorth>then add clouds on another layer
08:03<Wolf01>I once tried with paint, but in game looks like a posterized image
08:04<andythenorth>even in photostrop, it’s not worth the effort
08:04<Wolf01>I can't get the scale
08:04<Wolf01>in game is really better to make things, as you directly see them
08:05<Wolf01>but with the current terrain tools is a pita
08:05<Wolf01>or better, a huge pain in the finger
08:08<andythenorth>hmm
08:09<JacobD88>Out of interest; with the new heightlevels in nightlies does the heightmap map generator also support generating more levels yet? Or are we still limited to it only recognising 16?
08:09<andythenorth>wonder if I could write something in pil
08:09<@peter1138>Why would it only recognise 16?
08:09<JacobD88>00 - 0F 0m (sea)
08:09<JacobD88>10 - 1F 30m
08:09<JacobD88>20 - 2F 70m
08:09<JacobD88>30 - 3F 100m
08:09<JacobD88>40 - 4F 130m
08:09<JacobD88>50 - 5F 170m
08:09<JacobD88>60 - 6F 200m
08:09<JacobD88>70 - 7F 230m
08:09<JacobD88>80 - 8F 270m
08:09<JacobD88>90 - 9F 300m
08:09<JacobD88>A0 - AF 330m
08:09<JacobD88>B0 - BF 370m
08:09<JacobD88>C0 - CF 400m
08:09<JacobD88>D0 - DF 430m
08:09<JacobD88>E0 - EF 470m
08:09<JacobD88>F0 - FF 500m
08:10<andythenorth>thanks
08:10<andythenorth>useful
08:12<@peter1138>I don't know where that comes from.
08:12<JacobD88>The wiki... http://wiki.openttd.org/Heightmap
08:12<@peter1138>Ok, well that doesn't reflect the code.
08:13<@peter1138>It's also not how it worked anyway.
08:15<JacobD88>May be worth a wiki update/correction then... I always assumed it was a demonstration of how the generator applied colour ranges to particular levels in the game; for example greys in the 60-6F range would appear on the 6th tile level from sea level...
08:15<@peter1138>Yup, it's a wiki.
08:17<@peter1138>It makes no sense to have a lookup table for that. It's just value * height_levels / 255, (255 being the limit of an 8 bit value)
08:18<@peter1138>(Except the game also converts RGB to greyscale in case anyone makes an RGB heightmap)
08:20<@peter1138>I guess it's bit more complex with all the palette crap that's going on... meh
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08:23<JacobD88>That's useful to know... Thanks...
08:23<JacobD88>I think the look up table was only there to help people work out where differentiation between greys would affect what level detail would appear on, and therefore how much contrast between greys they would need to get fine details on their heightmap without losing things...
08:23<JacobD88>If the game already supports 8-bit depth equating to 255 tiles of height then the table is definitely defunct...
08:24<@peter1138>andythenorth, http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/hm4.png :S
08:25<andythenorth>peter1138: that one’s Jesus
08:25<andythenorth>or Russell Brand
08:25<andythenorth>hard to tell them apart
08:25<andythenorth>oh no it was my reflection in my glossy screen :P
08:25<@peter1138>heh
08:25<@peter1138>looks better in game :p
08:26<JacobD88>*like*
08:27<@Rubidium>isn't that slender?
08:27<andythenorth>peter1138: just tested it, pretty good
08:27<@peter1138>Heh
08:27<andythenorth>sweeping coastline, long rivers
08:28<andythenorth>1024x1024 is huge :O
08:28<@peter1138>I like the way the coastlines are long but not featureless.
08:28<@peter1138>Yeah, that too.
08:29<@peter1138>And the water is... not spread all over the map.
08:29<@peter1138>Difficult to bridge all that
08:29<andythenorth>lots of little islandy bits in SE
08:30<andythenorth>needs a bigger mountain though ;)
08:30<andythenorth>how did you make it?
08:30<@peter1138>Multiple perlins, and another generator
08:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r27040 trunk/src/stdafx.h (2014-10-25 12:32:42 UTC)
08:32<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Don't use GCC diagnostic push/pop if unsupported
08:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27041 /trunk/bin/baseset (8 files) (2014-10-25 12:35:48 UTC)
08:35<@DorpsGek>-Update: ob* translations
08:44*peter1138 generates a 4096x4096 map for "fun"
08:44<@Rubidium>@seen fun
08:44<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: I have not seen fun.
08:45<@peter1138>:)
08:45<@peter1138>Hmm, need a progress meter :p
08:49<supermop>later
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08:59<andythenorth>hm4.png is nice in tropic
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>George: so these are the currently "active" IDs: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/po9rzdphk
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>George: anything beyond that must be done by you
09:04<@peter1138>andythenorth, how many levels?
09:04<@peter1138>Hmm, 31 is ok. 63 makes the desert too bumpy.
09:04<@peter1138>Also, long river, nice.
09:06<JacobD88>Time to try out this heightmap :) http://www.3dbuzz.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=71448&d=1299622871
09:06<@peter1138>Too much contrast
09:07<@peter1138>Oops, left it on tropic :p
09:08<@peter1138>Yeah, cos the constrast everything is at least 3 high.
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>"real" heightmaps need rotating by 45°
09:08<@peter1138>Good idea.
09:08<@peter1138>gimp to the rescue.
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>it annoys me that so many people don't do that...
09:09<@peter1138>There are gaps in the levels, so this is already munged :(
09:10<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: 45º ?
09:10<@peter1138>No. 45°
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so in-game north is up.
09:10<andythenorth>peter1138: I had it on 28
09:11<andythenorth>figures
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09:20<@peter1138>Bah, got it wrong. Norfolk's flooded.
09:20<JacobD88>http://www.filedropper.com/uk2048xheightmap32level1
09:20<JacobD88>I got this with the heightmap posted earlier
09:20<andythenorth>‘real’ heightmaps never appealed much :P
09:20<JacobD88>height levels 32
09:20<andythenorth>norfolk’s often flooded
09:20<JacobD88>ha ha ha
09:21<andythenorth>I think hm4.png is a future classic
09:21<andythenorth>just make 200 more
09:21<andythenorth>hookup the world gen to randomly select a heightmap
09:21<andythenorth>job done
09:21<@peter1138>Haha
09:22<@peter1138>Problem with real heightmaps is you know it's trying to be real but it's not real enough... or something.
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09:23<andythenorth>uncanny valley
09:23<andythenorth>same reason most 32bpp sucks
09:25<@planetmaker>:) bad bad valley that
09:26<andythenorth>frosch123: what happened to your FIRS supply boost patch?
09:26<andythenorth>did you commit it? :P
09:26<@peter1138>But still many people say zBase is better...
09:26<andythenorth>that’s because reasons
09:26<andythenorth>mostly ogfx
09:27<andythenorth>also most people lack taste
09:27*peter1138 ponders trying to shoehorn this code into OpenTTD.
09:28<andythenorth>you might as well
09:28<andythenorth>or just bundle a load of heightmaps
09:28<andythenorth>and a randomiser
09:28<andythenorth>valid
09:28<@peter1138>:S
09:28<@peter1138>It's much slower for large maps.
09:28<andythenorth>how big are the pngs?
09:29<frosch123>andythenorth: https://old-paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3115/
09:29<@peter1138>1m27 to make a 2048x2048 map :(
09:29<andythenorth>is there a format for ‘package of n pngs’ that we could put on bananas?
09:29<@peter1138>which is 1MB
09:30<andythenorth>ship a bunch of packs, choose one to randomise from
09:30<andythenorth>‘alpine’, ‘islands’ etc
09:30<andythenorth>64 pngs in each
09:30<@peter1138>Hmm, weird looking map.
09:30<frosch123>andythenorth: if you add it, ^Spike^ does no longer need to keep old-paste running
09:30<andythenorth>frosch123: just commit it :P
09:31<andythenorth>you have rights no?
09:31<frosch123>i think it's the last paste i regulary link to, after adding the specs for smoke
09:31<frosch123>andythenorth: technically i have rights to all repos
09:31<frosch123>but technically is not always appropiate :)
09:31<andythenorth>well I’m happy if you do this
09:31<andythenorth>I cba to compile FIRS
09:32<andythenorth>takes way too long
09:33<frosch123>well, i think my patched nml currently has some syntax errors
09:36<George>Eddi|zuHause: Thank you for your help, reordering code parts helped. How could you generate such list? Mabe this informmation could be achived from NMLC in case error?
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09:39<andythenorth>frosch123: SUPPLY_BOOST_QUADRUPLE and SUPPLY_BOOST_DOUBLE should be made less specific?
09:39<andythenorth>SUPPLY_BOOST_LOTS, SUPPLY_BOOST_SOME
09:39<andythenorth>or SUPPLY_BOOST_FEW
09:39<frosch123>andythenorth: yes, should there be more than 3 production levels?
09:40<andythenorth>dunno
09:40<andythenorth>probably not
09:40<frosch123>should the supply amount be configureable? or only the boost muliplier?
09:40<andythenorth>but it might 1.5x, 2x
09:40<andythenorth>or 2x, 4x
09:40<andythenorth>or 3x, 12x
09:40<andythenorth>or whatever
09:40<andythenorth>dunno
09:41<frosch123>i'll play a bit with it, when my nml is ready again
09:41<andythenorth>might hide it all behind a single player parameter…. supplies model: Gentle | Intense | Insane
09:42<andythenorth>something like that
09:42<frosch123>i see it more as some adjustment to map/vehicle/year conditions
09:42<andythenorth>o_O ?
09:44<frosch123>well, it depends how you want to play the game, do you want to deliver few supplies, or lots; do you want boost easy achievable or hard, and shall boost flood your network, or only give you a fancy medal
09:44<andythenorth>agreed
09:44<frosch123>so, i wonder about 3 to 4 parameters: number of supplies needed for boost, effect of boost, and scale between some/lots boost
09:45<andythenorth>I think for player, that’s too many tbh
09:45<andythenorth>maybe it’s person preference, but I find overwhelming numbers of params…overwhelming :)
09:45<andythenorth>personal / person /s
09:45<frosch123>maybe i can get away with two, but i don't consider many parameters bad
09:46<andythenorth>IKEA effect :P
09:46<frosch123>imho a industry effect should be adjustable to rv, train and ship games :p
09:48<frosch123>as default i would make the first boost level somewhat easy achievable, as in: you likely get it, if you deliver supplies at all
09:48<TomyLobo>i'm usually removing §train_length's worth of signals after a split or intersection. does that make sense for joins as well?
09:48<frosch123>while the second level should be hard, i.e. you really need to commit to delivering supplies to a specific industry
09:49<frosch123>TomyLobo: imho no :p
09:49<@planetmaker>TomyLobo, place signals where you can allow a train to wait without disturbing your other traffice. I'd say 'no', but the answer might vary on circumstance
09:49<TomyLobo>it's a pure join on a > $train_length*3 track
09:50<TomyLobo>on the middle of it
09:51<frosch123>anyway, i can make sense to skip 1 or 2 signals, so you have some gap between trains
09:51<frosch123>that way, your trains do not need to slow down because of curve anomalies of the train in front or something
09:52<@peter1138>Signal every tile!
09:52<@peter1138>:(
09:53<frosch123>we could hard-lock signal distance 1 to enabling infra costs :p
09:53<andythenorth>frosch123: first boost level < 20t?
09:53<andythenorth>that covers most sensible cases
09:54<@peter1138>:D
09:54<andythenorth>hmm
09:54<andythenorth>also some….suggestions
09:55<andythenorth>permit 270º turns
09:55<andythenorth>also trains jumping over each other
09:55<andythenorth>these are from my kids
09:56<frosch123>andythenorth: psst, turning more than 180° makes you turn less
09:56<andythenorth>they do it with brio
09:56<andythenorth>when they hit a trailing point
09:56<andythenorth>(junction)
09:56<frosch123>i think aircraft somewhen did that
09:57<frosch123>instead of turing 45° left, turn 315° right
09:59<andythenorth>trains jumping over each other would solve all signalling issues
09:59<frosch123>there are games, where you can only move if you can jump over something else
10:00<frosch123>"draughts" in english
10:00<andythenorth>do that with trains
10:00<andythenorth>instead of signal spacing, train spacing :P
10:01*peter1138 ponders docks, again.
10:01<andythenorth>you should
10:01<andythenorth>just implement bouys-are-docks
10:01<andythenorth>then we can all go home again
10:02*andythenorth hmms at Road Hog
10:02<andythenorth>these trams are not realisms for britain
10:02<George>Eddi|zuHause: could you please make the same list for the current xUSSR set, so I could see how many IDs left?
10:05<TomyLobo>do powerplants still stay forever?
10:05<@planetmaker>I expect 60000 IDs being left overall and 6000 for articulated vehicles.
10:06<@planetmaker>TomyLobo, yes. And will. Unless you use NewGRFs
10:06<TomyLobo>ok
10:07*andythenorth should implement electricity
10:07<andythenorth>too lazy
10:09<TomyLobo>frosch123 yeah i have a signals every 2 tiles on straights.
10:09<Wolf01>gah, crashed the game loading a heightmap
10:09<TomyLobo>and no funky curves :)
10:09<Wolf01>uhm, no it un-crashed
10:11<Wolf01>damn, it looks really good with 32 height levels, but some mountains have flat top
10:13<andythenorth>32 is about right
10:14<George>planetmaker: We are speaking about spriteIDs
10:14<Wolf01>ok, this time it crashed
10:15<@peter1138>You're talking about action2 ids
10:17<Wolf01>mmh, it dies on river generation
10:18<Quatroking>is it possible to use ctrl-click to remove railroad signals instead of changing them?
10:18<Wolf01>I would like that too
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: this is about action2-IDs, not vehicle IDs
10:19<fonsinchen>Wolf01, Quatroking press 'r' if you need a keyboard shortcut for that
10:19<Quatroking>would be nicer to put the "change signal" on alt-click instead or something
10:19<Wolf01>fonsinchen, I know, but I often play on touch screen with no keyboard :P
10:20<Quatroking>fonsinchen, eh, that works, kinda, but I always have my left hand on the arrow keys so I can easily move the viewport while working
10:20<Quatroking>so pinky goes on ctrl/shift
10:20<Wolf01>the best thing I can have is a pen with gestures, but I may only have 8 of them and the same ones for every software
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10:21<@planetmaker>ah, the evil action2 IDs
10:22<andythenorth>is there a limit? :o
10:23<@planetmaker>no. and yes. 255 in a single sequence
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: not an absolute limit, but a concurrent limit
10:23<andythenorth>use nfo
10:23<andythenorth>problem solved
10:23<andythenorth>or write simpler grfs
10:24<andythenorth>FIRS hits the limit though
10:24<andythenorth>unsolvably
10:24<andythenorth>I just binned features to solve it
10:24<Quatroking>I'm loving these stations btw http://a.pomf.se/bkjgqr.png
10:25<Quatroking>it's also nice to see that the AI also makes use of them
10:27<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=573400#p573400 this heightmap is wonderful, but I can't get a good setting to generate it "flawlessly", the rivers are too enbanked or the mountains top are cut :/
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10:55<@peter1138>xz on a 70GB file probably wasn't a good idea. Took hours...
10:56<@peter1138>Wolf01, yeah, it's been made for 16 height levels, because... reasons?
10:57<@peter1138>Apparently people had some weird misconceptions as to how heightmaps work.
10:58<andythenorth>what did they do?
10:58<andythenorth>surely a heightmap is 0-255?
10:59*andythenorth never checked, just assumed that when making them
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>George: looks like you have IDs 1..18 never used in the end
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>but getting this information is rather tricky
11:00<George>Eddi|zuHause: you mean I have small reserve (18 IDs) after reorganisation of set
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>George: yes
11:01<andythenorth>bah 2048x2048
11:01<andythenorth>so slow to generate
11:02<@peter1138>andythenorth, lots seem to specifically only use values at match 16 height levels.
11:02<@peter1138>s/at/which/
11:02<George>And how hard is it to get this number (IDs left) or how hard is it for you (if I ask you to check someday again?)
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>George: ID 0 is used by some internal NML stuff, and the lowest otherwise used ID is 19 for "er2_v2_h_sprites_right"
11:03<andythenorth>that map Wolf01 linked is interesting
11:03<andythenorth>deep ravines for rivers
11:03<andythenorth>looks good, bet it’s boring to play
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>George: it's not hard for me, but it's some hacky pieces of code i wouldn't want to let loose on the general public
11:04<George>Ok, I'll ask then :D
11:05<George>I mean ask you next time I have this problem
11:05<George>Thank you
11:13<andythenorth>maybe I should do more steam traction engines for Road Hog brit roster, instead of trams
11:13<andythenorth>for realisms
11:13<andythenorth>have to dibble the speed though
11:19<andythenorth>herp
11:19<andythenorth>bored of thinking
11:19<andythenorth>maybe I play peter1138’s heightmap
11:19<andythenorth>with some GS
11:20<andythenorth>SV again :P
11:22<frosch123>peter1138: maybe those heightmaps were saved by openttd?
11:23<frosch123>i.e. load heightmap into ottd, make some adjustments in scenario editor, and resave
11:25<andythenorth>“Disable airport date restrictions” \o/
11:25<andythenorth>cheating?
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>that should probably also apply to NewGRF stations
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>or... vehicles...
11:28<@peter1138>Yeah, maybe.
11:28<@peter1138>andythenorth, ships!
11:31<andythenorth>ship!
11:31<andythenorth>?
11:32<@peter1138>Yes it's ready.
11:34<andythenorth>frosch123: can I have a non-random SV?
11:34<andythenorth>I know which cargo type I want
11:34<andythenorth>I assume that’s impossible
11:34<andythenorth>due to grf
11:35<@peter1138>Hmm, that map in snow with 127 height levels... is a bit...
11:35<andythenorth>inverted pyramid
11:35<@peter1138>Yeah but not that bad.
11:35<@peter1138>Maybe double size will help.
11:35<@peter1138>I'll never fill the map though.
11:36<andythenorth>I’ve got it on 512x512
11:36<@peter1138>oo
11:36<andythenorth>at 32 height levels
11:36<@peter1138>The in-game scaler is terrible :(
11:36<@peter1138>Nearest neighbour I think.
11:37<andythenorth>it has taken 15 mins to get a GS goal that I want to play on a map that I want to play :P
11:37<andythenorth>is there a console command like newgame, but for heightmap?
11:40<@peter1138>So many farms...
11:40<@peter1138>This calls for... Very Low
11:41<andythenorth>firs farms, or vanilla?
11:41<andythenorth>or yeti?
11:41<@peter1138>vanilla
11:42<@peter1138>Hmm, weird stretchmarks :(
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>farms are the only thing that prevents the map getting filled with trees
11:43<Wolf01>indeed, we need prairies
11:43<@peter1138>Hmm, not much snow with height 32.
11:58<TomyLobo>can 1.4.4 connect to 1.4.3?
11:58<TomyLobo>is that a good idea?
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>no
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>versions must match exactly
12:06<andythenorth>can GS raise/lower terrain?
12:13<frosch123>not themself, they need some company
12:13<frosch123>non-random sv is tricky, you cannot query a list of the cargos in the options menu, because they are not known at that point
12:14<frosch123>so, you can either allow setting a number between 0 and 31, or you can add a list of all known cargos
12:14<frosch123>both options suck :p
12:14<andythenorth>is there a ‘player choice’ option in GS?
12:14<andythenorth>on a dialog at game start?
12:15<frosch123>somewhat, but not really
12:15<frosch123>you can ask questions
12:15<frosch123>but the answers are yes/no and such :p
12:16<frosch123>you could create some menu with signs
12:16<frosch123>select the cargo sign you want to play with :p
12:16<andythenorth>k :)
12:16<andythenorth>nvm
12:16<andythenorth>shame about terrain
12:16<andythenorth>I invented a GS called ‘When the Levee Breaks"
12:16<andythenorth>lowers random tiles along shores
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12:16<frosch123>zuu did some reverse scenario about that
12:16<andythenorth>also another one that raises large mountains (“Volcanoes”) at random
12:17<andythenorth>“Misty Mountain Hop"
12:17<frosch123>when you meet some goal, it created a land bridge to some island
12:17<andythenorth>considered “Stairway to Heaven”, but eh, “No stairway"
12:17<andythenorth>denied
12:17<frosch123>andythenorth: ah, just play ottd 0.6 :p
12:17<frosch123>seismic activity :)
12:17<andythenorth>:P
12:17<andythenorth>was that a thing?
12:19<frosch123>there was some bug report in the forums, about seismic activity, and the land shape changing in some area
12:19<frosch123>turned out, it was the old ai :)
12:28<andythenorth>maybe I should learn squirrel
12:28<andythenorth>I have an idea to blend NCG and SV
12:29<andythenorth>at game start you are given a challenge to deliver x amount primary cargo to a specific industry
12:29<andythenorth>challenge is quite easy
12:30<andythenorth>when you win, you get a new challenge to deliver the produced secondary cargos, maybe to 2 destinations
12:30<andythenorth>when you win those it starts again
12:30<andythenorth>it could stay quite linear, or it could branch insanely, depending on what’s more fun
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12:33<argoneus>http://a.pomf.se/tvgrwc.webm this is great
12:37<@peter1138>Is it?
12:38<@peter1138>Ah so he transforms into a lady. Ok.
12:39<Wolf01>heeeeeee is a woman. sheeeeeeeeeee is a maaaaan
12:39<@peter1138>Meh, happens all the time. Not usually so quick though.
12:41-!-TheSerb [~TheSerb@cable-178-149-188-6.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #openttd
12:41<TheSerb>Hi
12:43<TheSerb>Does anyone have an idea when to make a mainline for trains
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12:45<@planetmaker>right as the first thing when starting
12:47<TheSerb>i am asking this because i am used to the network that is explained on the openttd wiki
12:48<andythenorth>at any time in the game is fine
12:48<andythenorth>it is a train game, so it’s ok
12:48<@planetmaker>:)
12:48<@planetmaker>build it when needed
12:51<TheSerb>thanks alot :D i love this community
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>depends on what your definition of "main line" is
12:51<TheSerb>now im going to play some openttd
12:52<TheSerb>eddi i meant the sistem that is explained on the openttdcoop wiki
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12:52<Eddi|zuHause>the "real" definition of "main line" puts limits on inclination and curve radius, "branch line" has less such restrictions
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13:02<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, tends to me some weird combo of LLLL_RRRR or something stupid.
13:02<@peter1138>in this thing
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13:06<andythenorth>18 tracks
13:06<andythenorth>all maglev
13:07<@peter1138>With a signal every tile.
13:08<andythenorth>no
13:09<andythenorth>you need room for the escape depots
13:09<@peter1138>And priority lines.
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>we should probably be concerned about the number of people who think "openttdcoop" and "openttd" are the same thing
13:17<andythenorth>we should delete road vehicles
13:17<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: likewise with forum & openttd
13:17<@planetmaker>do people think so? The latter, yes
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: just read above. he did confuse "openttd wiki" and "openttdcoop wiki"
13:18<@peter1138>Bah, yes, docks on rivers...
13:19<andythenorth>silly
13:19<andythenorth>raise land, build massive canal basin
13:19<andythenorth>bouys as docks :P
13:19<andythenorth>no new graphics needed
13:19<@planetmaker>hehe :)
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>that is a stupid TTDPatch-style hack
13:20<andythenorth>also one step closer to ultimate goal
13:20<andythenorth>reimplementing TTDP
13:20<andythenorth>then all will be well
13:20<andythenorth>humanity saved etc
13:21<andythenorth>am I the only one who never played TTDP?
13:21<@planetmaker>Probably I played it. In ye ol' ol' times in a galaxy far far away. But not in the last 7 years
13:22<@planetmaker>it simply refused to run for me
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>i played TTDP 1.6 or 1.7
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>long before there were NewGRFs
13:22<@peter1138>I pretty much only used it to compare features.
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>then i played half a game of simutrans
13:23<andythenorth>why are hacks stupid?
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: because they damage development in the long run
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>and that is stupid, because we are not on a deadline or anything
13:24<@peter1138>How should docks work then?
13:25<andythenorth>I should be able to build them easily
13:25<andythenorth>on rivers
13:25<@peter1138>It would make things vastly simpler if the docking tile was water.
13:25<andythenorth>yes
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>well, i want them to work like airports...
13:25<andythenorth>like a bouy
13:25<andythenorth>multi-stop or other wise :P
13:26<frosch>i want airports to work like roads :p
13:26<andythenorth>just build it, ships go to it
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>with the added bonus that a seaplane port may be used by ships as well :p
13:26<@peter1138>Why like airports?
13:26<andythenorth>why complicate? o_O
13:26<@peter1138>Airports are a pain in the bum.
13:26<andythenorth>airports are quite tedious :)
13:27<andythenorth>peter1138: make a bouy-docks patch? I’ll test it
13:27<andythenorth>forget multi-stop stuff for now?
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: there are probably half a dozen such patches out there
13:27<andythenorth>most of the cases where mult-stop is ‘needed’, I just bulldoze land
13:27*andythenorth -> forums
13:28<@peter1138>I'm not even talking about multiple docks, heh.
13:28<andythenorth>hmm
13:28<andythenorth>can’t find a patch
13:28<andythenorth>in forums
13:29<frosch>install ttdp in dosbox
13:29<frosch>measure the time till you ragequit
13:29<andythenorth>it’s awesome no?
13:29<andythenorth>I thought it was considered superior?
13:29<andythenorth>genuinely
13:29<andythenorth>just non-maintainable
13:30<frosch>yeah, in mediaval times it was awesome to take a dump in the backyard
13:30<@planetmaker>frosch, not sure it's measurable
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it misses all the useful UI features that you're used to
13:30<andythenorth>but it has better physics, better signals, better construction options
13:30<andythenorth>more features
13:30<andythenorth>proper locks
13:30<frosch>andythenorth: i played ttdp 2.0 for two years, then switched to ottd 0.4
13:31<andythenorth>build on tunnels, custom bridgeheads
13:31<frosch>around ottd 0.7 i tried to play a ttdp game just for the lolz
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>it has overcomplicated signals, useless physics, and no autorail tool
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13:31<andythenorth>will it run on Windows XP?
13:31<frosch>it was astonishing how many interface features it lacked
13:32<frosch>andythenorth: dosbox runs about everywhere
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>bridge heads and tunnel heads are the only genuinely missing feature of openttd. in all other places it has long surpassed TTDP
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>i've had no problems running TTDP in wine
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>i've no dos GRFs anyway
13:33<frosch>andythenorth: it's a clear case of false memories :)
13:33<andythenorth>I am considering binning Iron Horse metro due to lack of tunnel head building
13:33<frosch>whatever you enjoyed in tha past
13:33<andythenorth>swap it for trams
13:33<frosch>don't considere trying it again, it will be disappointing
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but if you do that, you bin metro-trams because of lack of roadtypes in two months...
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>frosch: like i was appalled how i could ever play a game like SC2000
13:35<frosch>can we somehow duplicate andy, put one copy into a fridge, and after 3 months let them discuss with each other?
13:35<andythenorth>I already have that in my head
13:35<andythenorth>it’s like fight club in there
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>frosch: you mean a freezer :p
13:35<andythenorth>I just watch from the outside
13:35<frosch>Eddi|zuHause: possibly
13:36<@peter1138>Hmm, CBH
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i'd like to piece together bridges
13:37<+michi_cc>Play Locomotion :p
13:37<@peter1138>My horses breakdown :(
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>i have a locmotion CD, i never even installed it...
13:38<@peter1138>I played it.
13:38<@peter1138>It wasn't fun.
13:38<andythenorth>horsies are daft
13:38<@peter1138>Yeah but it's 1702
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>why are you playing with breakdowns anywaY?
13:38<andythenorth>masochism
13:38<andythenorth>so who has a bouys patch?
13:38<@peter1138>Apparently to find issues like this
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'm sure i have seen one recently. might be in the new map features patchpack
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: the default breakdown sound and animation with horses is kinda funny :p
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>was the newgrf effect stuff ever applied to breakdowns?
13:41<frosch>it's speced, but not implemented
13:42<andythenorth>metros https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6775/Puddlebury%20Transport,%2011-02-1921.png
13:42<andythenorth>either signal tunnels (stupid idea), or build-on-tunnel-entrance would be nice
13:42<TomyLobo>is hiding fences possible?
13:42<andythenorth>yes
13:42<andythenorth>turn off detail
13:42<@peter1138>Yeah, turn off full detail
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>it will also hide a bit of other stuff like road reconstruction vehicles
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27042 trunk/src/lang/irish.txt (2014-10-25 17:45:23 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>irish - 265 changes by tem
13:47<@peter1138>Hmm, so are bits 0-3 of Tile::type unused?
13:48<frosch>the bridge bits and climate were moved there iirc
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: what does docs/landscape* say?
13:48<frosch>you can now implement bridges over houses and industries
13:48<@peter1138>Hmm, I see.
13:49<andythenorth>could use that right now :P
13:49<frosch>since the bridge bits are available for those now
13:49<andythenorth>want to build elevated metro
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>i'd settle for bridges over road stations
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13:50*planetmaker mumbles 'hack' :P
13:50<frosch>planetmaker: don't worry, the gpu will solve all issues
13:50-!-jinks [~jinks@172.245.35.67] has joined #openttd
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>what happened to that guy anyway? :p
13:51<frosch>he's here every day
13:52<frosch>left 14:21 today
13:52<@planetmaker>whom?
13:52<@peter1138>liq3
13:52<@planetmaker>oh
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>i'm really terrible at remembering names
13:52<frosch>the gpu guy, who said that the gpu can sort sprites, if they are already sorted
13:53<@peter1138>Sounds useful
13:53-!-pixar- [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:53<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, I only know cos I looked up who left at 14:21 :p
13:54-!-pixar [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has joined #openttd
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i did that as well :p
13:54<frosch>how did you manage to translate time zones?
13:54<@peter1138>Hmm, don't have any of my old CBH patches.
13:54<@peter1138>frosch, by being not American.
13:54<frosch>fair enough
13:55<frosch>oh, it's actually happening today, isn't it?
13:55<frosch>you know, time travel and stuff
13:55<@peter1138>Well, tomorrow morning.
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>no, tomorrow.
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>well, depending on your definition of "day" :p
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>if the new day begins when you wake up, then yes, it's probably today.
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>on a related note: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wzDO5gir0d8/VEuGHGMrfUI/AAAAAAABrqU/h0HUoxFsils/w534-h646-no/hurenwerdenumgestellt.jpg
13:57<@planetmaker>is' klar, Eddi|zuHause ;)
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14:00<@planetmaker>oO Someone didn't understand nml's sprite templates: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6760/B737-800.pnml
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14:09<@peter1138>Well
14:09<@peter1138>I don't.
14:14-!-Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
14:14-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
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14:24<@planetmaker>evenink
14:24<@Alberth>hi hi
14:24<@Alberth>I just commented how quiet it is here, and you arrive :)
14:25<@planetmaker>:P
14:25-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66FC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
14:26<andythenorth>it has been a nice day
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14:27<LordAro>evenink planetmaker
14:27<LordAro>& andythenorth
14:28<@planetmaker>o/
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14:39<Eddi|zuHause>hm, my windows firefox apparently doesn't support h264 video... what's the usual way to install codecs on windows?
14:41<Prof_Frink>Go to a dodgy site and decide which of the codec packs looks least untrustworthy.
14:42<@peter1138>Hmm, mine supports H.264, but not enough of the other stuff.
14:42<@peter1138>Missing Media Source Extensions and WebM VP9.
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that's what it looked like on linux
14:46-!-jinks [~jinks@172.245.35.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>hmm... that didn't work...
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14:52<andythenorth>ugh
14:52<andythenorth>docks on rivers
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: ok, this one wasn't the least untrustworthy... after the third "we want to install this spyware" tab i gave up :p
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14:59<Prof_Frink>This is why we vlc.
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but vlc lacks a youtube navigator :p
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15:14<andythenorth>HMM
15:14<andythenorth>game is fun
15:16<Quatroking>started using the music from the original ttd again
15:16<Quatroking>feels good man
15:25-!-juicetyven [~juicetyve@cm-84.209.85.53.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd
15:26*andythenorth tries it
15:27<andythenorth>hmm
15:27<andythenorth>mixed ships much anyone?
15:27<andythenorth>mail + pax
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15:56<TomyLobo>is there a newgrf that allows steam/diesel and electric engines on monorail and maglev tracks/stations/depots?
15:56<Wolf01>nuTracks afair
15:57<@peter1138>Ew, why?
15:58<Wolf01>maybe he wants to replace everything
15:58<TomyLobo>exactly
15:58<TomyLobo>Wolf01 is nutracks exactly for that purpose?
15:58<TomyLobo>or does it do all kinds of other things that break my save? :)
15:58<Wolf01>no, but it does have an universal rail type
15:59<@peter1138>Lazy bastards, back in my day we had to do it all by hand, no cloning or anything...
15:59<Wolf01>eh, it certainly breaks your save
16:01<Sylf>sounds like the job for universal rails
16:02*Sylf is lazy down to the bone
16:06<b_jonas>ugh
16:12<andythenorth>shall I just lower this river to sea level?
16:12<andythenorth>for faster ships
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16:20<@peter1138>andythenorth, this map is hard :(
16:20<andythenorth>hm4.png?
16:20<@peter1138>Yes
16:20<andythenorth>I am having a lovely time with it
16:20<andythenorth>best game in ages
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16:25<andythenorth>hmm
16:25<andythenorth>funny thing
16:25<andythenorth>cdist eliminates transfers
16:25<andythenorth>but for freight, I still use transfer+leave empty, to prevent unwanted links being formed
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16:48<Quatroking>question: why does real life speed up 5x whenever I play openttd?
16:52<Xaroth|Work>it's not a bug, it's a feature
16:53<+glx>happens with civ too
16:58<@Rubidium>Quatroking: probably because playing openttd is 5 times more fun than normal real life?
16:58-!-Jomann [~abchirk@p4FE2073B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:58<MTsPony>I think there's a bug with the new height level patch
17:00<@Rubidium>there's a new patch for that?
17:02<MTsPony>The patch that made it into trunk.
17:02<MTsPony>A heightmap i still had loaded up fine and now shows artifacts
17:02<MTsPony>I assume Map Height 15 is the original default? Or was it 16?
17:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27043 trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp (2014-10-25 21:02:59 UTC)
17:03<@DorpsGek>-Fix: could not enter third digit of snow line height
17:03<@Rubidium>15 was the original
17:03<MTsPony>Does that affect a Tropic map DorpsGek?
17:04<@peter1138>HEH
17:04<@peter1138>Tropic has snow?
17:04<MTsPony>:D
17:04<MTsPony>Who knows, with a height level of 30 :P
17:04<MTsPony>Oh well I guess Ill fill in a bug report.
17:08<frosch>MTsPony: some issue around that was fixed in r26984
17:08<frosch>so i hope you are not using something older
17:09<MTsPony>openttd-trunk-r27042-windows-win64
17:10<MTsPony>I might have an idea why its happening, I really dont hope this was intentional or accepted as working as intended though
17:10<@peter1138>None of us knows what your problem actually is, so...
17:14<MTsPony>I filed a bug report so, you can read up there if you're interested,
17:15<frosch>yes, that is a new feature
17:15<frosch>only 0 is sea now
17:15<andythenorth>definitely need to fix farms supply boost
17:15<andythenorth>quadruple is just boring
17:15<frosch>previously it height levels were always rounded towards zero, now it's >0 or ==0
17:16-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit []
17:16<MTsPony>:(
17:16<MTsPony>Guess no bug then
17:16<@peter1138>Else sea level would change depending on height levels.
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17:16<MTsPony>Wouldnt it be more logical whenever height 15 is chosen it takes the legacy method?
17:16<MTsPony>Because this is kind of annoying now
17:17<frosch>just fix the source image?
17:19<fonsinchen>https://github.com/ulfhermann/openttd/commit/2003c6852b990441cc142d9195b3e5c17a55a80e should fix FS#5812
17:19<fonsinchen>I don't want to commit it before testing on a mac with backtick as dead key, though
17:19<fonsinchen>andythenorth ^
17:19-!-Progman [~progman@p57A183F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:20*andythenorth looks
17:20<@peter1138>So... worldgen preview?
17:21<frosch>do it :)
17:21<@peter1138>Hmm...
17:21<@peter1138>Also... threading...
17:21<frosch>but i guess you need to remove global vars from tgp and such
17:21<@peter1138>I generate separate perlin maps, that could be threaded.
17:21<frosch>not generating into the map and such
17:22<@peter1138>Screw tgp, generating into a float array.
17:22<Quatroking>which addon do you guys suggest for extra industries?
17:23<frosch>depends what you want :p
17:23-!-pixar [~Mychomize@46-236-110-230.customer.t3.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:23<frosch>the key is to use different challenges in different games
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17:23<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/hm5.png :S
17:24<andythenorth>where’s diff in github :P
17:24*andythenorth is too used to bitbucket :P
17:24<frosch>andythenorth: add ".diff" to the url
17:24<Quatroking>industries such as sweatshops, japanese whalers and chinese bootleggers, frosch
17:24<frosch>or was it ".patch"?
17:24<andythenorth>.diff
17:25<andythenorth>fonsinchen: \o/
17:25<andythenorth>that is so much better :)
17:25<andythenorth>I use ` all the time to open / close console for reload_newgrfs
17:25<andythenorth>been driving me nuts :)
17:25<Quatroking>I wish I was a better spriter, then I could add these industries myself
17:25<frosch>Quatroking: anyway, if you only want slightly different than original, you can use "ogfx+industries", if you want something expermental new use "yeti", otherwise use "firs" but not the "full firs" economy
17:25<fonsinchen>I just fear that I broke r26006 with that
17:26<fonsinchen>michi_cc did that for a reason
17:26<andythenorth>I saw the commit
17:26<fonsinchen>but clearly he assumed all backticks would be dead keys
17:27<andythenorth>peter1138: is that 64x1024 or something?
17:27<andythenorth>I thought the image had timed out :P
17:27<@peter1138>2048x256
17:27<fonsinchen>andythenorth, Do you also have that funny effect that you get two ~ if you type shift-backtick?
17:27<@peter1138>Does your browser not tell you in the title bar? :p
17:27<Quatroking>frosch, "FIRS Industry Replacement Set"?
17:27<andythenorth>oh it does
17:27<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
17:27<frosch>Quatroking: yes, but make sure to check the settings, and choose an economy that is not "full firs" :p
17:28<andythenorth>I should default to something other than Full FIRS
17:28<andythenorth>or rename
17:28<@peter1138>Hmm, should replace this "faultgen" system. It's too slow :(
17:28<andythenorth>‘Insane'
17:29<Quatroking>alright, so which economy do I choose?
17:29<Quatroking>it defaulted to FIRS
17:29<andythenorth>which climate are you playing?
17:29<Quatroking>choices are Temperate Basic, Arctic Basic, Tropic Basic, Heart of Darkness
17:29<Quatroking>I haven't chosen yet
17:29<Quatroking>do I just put it to whatever I plan on playing?
17:29<andythenorth>choose the Basic for the climate you want to play
17:30<andythenorth>or Heart of Darkness for tropic
17:30<Quatroking>Alright
17:30<+michi_cc>fonsinchen: r26002 was related to the initial changed/improved IME input, but as this area was changed a lot more since then it might be obsolote now.
17:30<Quatroking>thanks
17:30<andythenorth>HoD is closer to sweatshops and chinese bootleggers than you know
17:30<andythenorth>fonsinchen: shift-backtick just gets me a tilde char in console (~)
17:31<fonsinchen>interesting, I get 2. Another bug ...
17:31<Quatroking>andythenorth, oh?
17:32<fonsinchen>michi_cc, Can you test if the fix works on your mac?
17:32<Quatroking>by the way FIRS is compatible with OpenGFX+, right
17:32<frosch>only ever use one industry set
17:32<+michi_cc>Which mac? There's no mac :p
17:32<fonsinchen>Oh, I thought you had a mac with backtick as dead key.
17:33<Quatroking>oh okay, so then I have to turn off opengfx+ industries?
17:33<frosch>yup
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17:35<+michi_cc>fonsinchen: It's called VMware, only that apple doesn't want that at all without some hacking/patching of OS X. There are enough things that still don't work so I'd never consider this representative in any way.
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17:48<@peter1138>Hmm, that thing MTsPony was talking about is why there's loads of flat land on my heightmaps, I think, even though I'm expecting only 0 to be sea.
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17:50<frosch>yeah, height level 1 has a bigger percentage of grey levels
17:51<frosch>one could change the scaling again, and distribute the levels > 0 evenly, but that would be incompatible with all older height maps
17:51<frosch>hmm, would it? maybe not
17:52<frosch>@calc (16 - 1) * 255 / 15
17:52<@DorpsGek>frosch: 255
17:52<frosch>eugh...
17:52<frosch>obviouis :)
17:52<@peter1138>:)
17:56<frosch>@calc (16 - 1) * 15 / 255 + 1
17:56<@DorpsGek>frosch: 1.88235294118
17:57<frosch>@calc (16*15 - 1) * 15 / 255 + 1
17:57<@DorpsGek>frosch: 15.0588235294
17:57<frosch>that's actually what i wanted :)
17:57<frosch>so, scaling grey level 1 to 255 evently to the heightlevels would stay compatible
18:03<frosch>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pjqo63amv?/pjqo63amv <- so, would that be better?
18:05<fonsinchen>michi_cc, I was just guessing you did r26002 for a reason. That reason may be that you have a different keyboard than I have, which may have created problems with accented characters
18:06*peter1138 tests
18:06<fonsinchen>Now I was hoping that you might be able to check if the problem you fixed with r26002 is still fixed with my patch.
18:07<fonsinchen>But ok, if not, then maybe just say "no" ...
18:14<@peter1138>Hmm, changes pretty much all the map quite subtley.
18:14<@peter1138>Coastline is the same though
18:15<frosch>all of the map, except the coastline should be marginally higher
18:15<@peter1138>I think it's better, there's no weighing towards height level 1.
18:15<frosch>height level 2 starts earlier
18:15<@peter1138>*nod*
18:18<@peter1138>Yeah, height level 15 makes massive parts of it flat.
18:22<+michi_cc>fonsinchen: You're patch doesn't work in my VM (start ottd, press key twice, console opens, press key twice, console closes. from now on the console opens/closes with a single key press until a character is pressed which will get accented (e -> ê). Repeat.), but history has shown that this might or might not be valid in comparison to a real Mac.
18:24<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27044 trunk/src/heightmap.cpp (2014-10-25 22:24:05 UTC)
18:24<@DorpsGek>-Change (r26905, r26984): Scale heightmap greyscales > 0 evenly to heightlevels > 0, instead of giving heightlevel 1 a bigger loading. Sea level remains at pure black only.
18:26<MTsPony>:o
18:26<frosch>that doesn't change your scenario :p
18:26<MTsPony>Uh.. I was just admiring the view ;
18:26<MTsPony>;P
18:27<MTsPony>im surprised my heightmap still looks decent with a 30 level height
18:27<MTsPony>well perhaps its not that surprising
18:28<MTsPony>ugh implementing desert tile height level in last trunk, but i got the widget names swapped haha.
18:32<fonsinchen>thanks michi_cc, that's very interesting to know
18:35<fonsinchen>Apparently even with dead keys it generates some kind of character in the event's characters string.
18:37*andythenorth -> bed
18:37<andythenorth>bye
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18:38<+michi_cc>Maybe the real culprit is VideoDriver_Cocoa::EditBoxLostFocus(). That is supposed to clear any pending compositions.
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18:47<frosch>night
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19:14<Wolf01>'night
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21:27<argoneus>good night train friends
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21:57<supermop>hi
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 26 00:00:29 2014