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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-10-27

---Logopened Mon Oct 27 00:00:30 2014
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03:32<andythenorth>@seen pikka
03:32<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 18 hours, 57 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <Pikka> it's pretty much six of one and half a dozen of the other.
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03:34<Supercheese>Well.
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03:40<V453000>dying
03:40<V453000>$community broken
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05:14<Quatroking>ayy lmao
05:14<Quatroking>so apparently, rip the md-11
05:14<Quatroking>klm made the last regular commercial flight with it yesterday
05:17<Quatroking>quick question: how can I sabotage a competitor's truck line?
05:17<Quatroking>don't worry, he's an AI
05:23<b_jonas>Quatroking: there's multiple ways. the easiest is to build shortcut roads and then capture their trucks when they go there,
05:23<b_jonas>or you can send your own trucks to the same road and stop them there to cause a traffic jam,
05:23<b_jonas>or you can block the road with a train but that's expensive
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05:26<Quatroking>I'll try blocking the road with a truck
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05:31<Quatroking>that didn't really work too well, they kept driving around it
05:32<Quatroking>blocked the road with a train engine instead, that worked
05:32<Quatroking>that oughta stop them stealing all my engineering supplies
05:36<b_jonas>Quatroking: block it with two trucks, one on each side of the road
05:37<Quatroking>tried that, didn't work
05:37<b_jonas>well, then build shortcut roads
05:37<b_jonas>it's easier if you know in advance that you're planning to do that, and build roads pre-emptively wherever the ai is trying,
05:38<b_jonas>but eventually you find out that there's just no point, and you'll play without an AI instead if you don't want them to work
05:38<Quatroking>I don't mind AI as long as they don't pull crap like profiteering off industry I'm working with
06:00<@peter1138>Easiest to block with a level crossing, indeed.
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06:21<Eddi|zuHause>or... you could just have higher ratings...
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07:00<argoneus>good morning train friends
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08:15<@peter1138>Bah, rhythmbox won't sync my music because it thinks there isn't enough space... despite the fact it is going to transcode from flac to mp3 :S
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08:34<alluke>cmon ecs why cant you stay at 800%
08:38<@peter1138>800% of what?
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08:39<alluke>production
08:40<alluke>always decreases back to 100
08:40<@peter1138>I wonder why.
08:40<alluke>me too
08:40<alluke>i have 2 million liter ships loading continuously
08:41<@peter1138>Maybe be, logically, 100% production would be full.
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08:41<@peter1138>Maybe be? What am I typing?
08:42<@peter1138>What's special about 800% production that it isn't 100% of a higher production, ?
08:42<alluke>sorry i meant 100
08:42<alluke>and it keeps dropping to 50
08:43<alluke>and even lower
08:43<alluke>back to default
08:44<alluke>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva%202014-10-27%20kohteessa%2014.43.35.png
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09:32<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, i had an idea: suppose i use windows only every "jubilee years", it would suffice if i had an unlicensed "30 day trial". but, it should be a pre-installed one, so i don't have to wait several hours for it to install, and it doesn't have a lot of ways to screw up things like bootloaders...
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>where would be the easiest place to get that?
09:32<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, does a VM suffice?
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>has to support 3D acceleration and stuff
09:33<@planetmaker>vmware should support that. Thus get a test VM: https://www.modern.ie/de-de
09:34<blathijs>Jubilee years?
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>blathijs: bad translation of the german phrase "Jubeljahre"
09:34<@planetmaker>direct translation :)
09:34<@planetmaker>"once in a blue moon"
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that's what leo says
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>so, then, where would i get vmware for linux from?
09:36<@planetmaker>your package manager?
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see it
09:37<argoneus>I'm intrigued by zuHause every time
09:37<argoneus>it sounds cool
09:37<@planetmaker>bad distribution ;)
09:37<argoneus>such is life in dutchland
09:38<@planetmaker>did i say vmware? I actually meant virtualbox. But yeah
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09:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes. virtualbox gives results
09:41<@planetmaker>the things offered on modern.ie are (probably among others) also virtualbox VMs.
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>"um gänsemarschartige Windows XP-Downloads durchzuführen." wtf are they trying to say? :p
09:44<@planetmaker>probably only a goose or duck can tell ;)
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>man, internet is so slow... 1GB takes 10 minutes!
09:48<argoneus>that is actually kinda slow
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>that's DSL 16000
09:48*argoneus has 15 MB/s download
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>i used to have DSL 384
09:49<argoneus>I used to download 30 kB/s
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>yes, DSL 384 is about 42kB/s
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>now i'm around 1.8MB/s
09:50<argoneus>for some reason my country has really cheap internet
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>and before that i had ISDN for a very long time
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>with 8kB/s
09:51<argoneus>I pay ~20 euro a month for 120/12
09:51<argoneus>Mbps
09:51<argoneus>from my understanding
09:51<argoneus>in belgium/nl/etc it's much more expensive?
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>that's because your country is so much more technologically and economically advanced...
09:51<argoneus>OH WAIT
09:51<argoneus>:P
10:09<V453000>BEER BEER BEER
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10:13<aycliffe>Goood morning all ;)
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10:14<@peter1138>Quite.
10:15<V453000>fuck yes
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10:33<alluke>beer on monday?
10:33<@peter1138>Why not?
10:34<alluke>just asking
10:38<alluke>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva%202014-10-27%20kohteessa%2016.38.14.png
10:38<alluke>piece of fucking shit oil rigs
10:39<alluke>why dont you stay at 100%
10:39<SpComb>burn them down
10:39<b_jonas>use trains instead of ships
10:39<alluke>i will when i can build rainway into sea
10:48<@peter1138>Why so many industries :S
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10:55<V453000>3? XD
10:58<@peter1138>More the density :p
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11:31<Quatroking>what are the rules of this channel anyways
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11:47<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, how do shared folders in virtual box work? i set one up, but i don't find it in the VM
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>also, it constantly claims USB is not working
11:48<@peter1138>Is it a Windows guest?
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>yes
11:49<@peter1138>I had that working... once.
11:49<@peter1138>Never again.
11:49<@peter1138>I just used SMB instead.
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i don't think i've set up SMB...
11:51<SpComb>virtualbox shared folders are SMB/CIFS shares
11:51<SpComb>\\vboxsrv\foo
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>oh, there it appeared
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>hm, so the VM seems to work, but the game still doesn't...
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13:07<@Alberth>moin
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13:39<NGC3982>Evening.
13:39<@Alberth>o/
13:39<NGC3982>Is "Moin" > "Morning"?
13:39<@peter1138>No.
13:39<@Alberth>@moin
13:40<@Alberth>NGC3982: wikipedia knows what it means
13:40<blathijs>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moin
13:40<@Alberth>that one indeed :)
13:40<NGC3982>Ah, nice.
13:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27047 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-10-27 17:47:15 UTC)
13:47<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:47<@DorpsGek>norwegian_nynorsk - 58 changes by eloekset
13:47<@DorpsGek>spanish - 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
13:47<@DorpsGek>turkish - 10 changes by wakeup
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13:52<frosch123>@moin
13:52<frosch123>DorpsGek seriously should learn that :)
13:55<@planetmaker>:)
13:57<Sacro>\o/
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14:21<argoneus>hiii o/
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14:22<NGC3982>Alien Isolation might be the best modern game i've played
14:23<argoneus>NGC3982: go away
14:23<NGC3982>Oh, you hate that game too?
14:23<argoneus>NGC3982: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5P-ul37yLG4
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14:23<argoneus>don't trigger me
14:24<NGC3982>Oh god yes
14:24<NGC3982>Haha, the mouse shake.
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14:25<argoneus>I was kinda stressed out
14:25<NGC3982>Yes, that shit made my pants change color.
14:25<argoneus>the video or that part?
14:26<NGC3982>The part. Lot's of scenes was way worse
14:26<NGC3982>But still, the entire game was very scary, but very ..good scary?
14:26<argoneus>I haven't even finished it yet
14:26<argoneus>this is the sequel
14:26<argoneus>http://youtube.com/watch?v=myzbwnInY6k
14:27<NGC3982>:(
14:27<argoneus>I still don't understand how he saw me
14:27<NGC3982>You moved
14:27<argoneus>wait
14:27<argoneus>you can't even turn the camera inside?
14:27<NGC3982>Nope
14:27<argoneus>oh fuck
14:27<NGC3982>Mouse movement is detectable
14:28<argoneus>I was like
14:28<argoneus>NOPE NOPE
14:28<NGC3982>:D
14:28<NGC3982>I really hate horror games
14:28<argoneus>it kind of lost its magic after though
14:28<argoneus>I was like
14:28<argoneus>"I'll just sprint through this part"
14:28<NGC3982>But this was actually the first one that i wanted to finish
14:28<argoneus>so I sprinted there, took the keycard, sprinted back
14:28<argoneus>he didn't catch me :(
14:28<NGC3982>:D
14:29<argoneus>I usually sprint past the androids too
14:29<argoneus>those guys can't run
14:29<NGC3982>They freak my shit out.
14:30<argoneus>you are scared of the androids?
14:30<NGC3982>Yes, oh yes.
14:30<argoneus>they aren't really that scary for me
14:30<argoneus>because you are faster than them
14:31<argoneus>but the alien is insanely quick
14:31<NGC3982>I guess it is the consistency that get's me
14:32<argoneus>NGC3982: I am now at the part where the doctor gets eaten and you go down by elevator and need to find the trauma gear or something
14:32<argoneus>does it get scarier from here on?
14:33<NGC3982>Can't remember. The ending is much more strategic than scary.
14:33<argoneus>ending?
14:33<argoneus>am I near the end? :O
14:34<NGC3982>Nope, not even near.
14:34<NGC3982>:D
14:34<argoneus>;___;
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15:24<@planetmaker>hm.... http://www.ams.org/notices/201410/rnoti-p1249.pdf
15:24<andythenorth>o/
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15:31<Wolf01>hi hi
15:31<argoneus>\o
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15:36<@Alberth>o/
15:38<andythenorth>cat est ou?
15:40<Wolf01>the what?
15:40<@Alberth>you still haven't figured out where the animal is?
15:42<andythenorth>nah
15:42<andythenorth>endless quest
15:42<andythenorth>neverending story
15:43<Wolf01>the best way to find it is to shake the dry food box
15:44<Wolf01>or you might consider to get a huntsman spider as a pet the next time
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15:52<CosmicRay>Hi folks. I have a quite large OpenTTD map running with some rather complex transport links. I'd like to figure out which ones are most heavily-loaded. When I played RT3, it had a nice map that would show which rail segments were in used the most by coloring them green to red
15:52<CosmicRay>Is there anything like this in OpenTTD in any way? I can't find it
15:53<CosmicRay>basically the algorithm should be simple - just see how often a tile is occupied over a certain amount of time
15:54<@Alberth>not for vehicles, but you can see capacity of cargo links, if you use cargo dist
15:55<@Alberth>Heavily loaded is not a problem, not flowing is the problem you want to check
15:56<CosmicRay>indeed
15:56<CosmicRay>well I also want to see under-utilized so I can perhaps remove them and free the tiles for other things
15:56<@Alberth>best way is to let the game run for a while, and observe how vehicles move (or not)
15:56<CosmicRay>yeah been trying that ;-)
15:56<CosmicRay>I'm not using cargodist yet
15:56<CosmicRay>haven't quite wrapped my head around what the heck it does yet ;-)
15:58<@Alberth>basically, it distributes the cargo if you give it room to do that
15:58<@Alberth>say you have a pax service from A to B and from A to C (and vice versa)
15:58<@Alberth>pax from A then get distributed between B and C
15:59<@Alberth>also, since pax from B can go to A, and from there to C, pax from B get distributed between A and C, where the latter travel 'through' A
15:59<@Alberth>for C, the same happens
16:00<@Alberth>(they get distributed to A and B, where the latter travel 'through' A)
16:00<@Alberth>so it's gets quite busy at A :)
16:01<@Alberth>for one-way flow it's easier, eg a coal mine providing to 2 power plants
16:01<@Alberth>coal gets distributed to both plants at the mine
16:02<@Alberth>that means a train visiting one power plant will only get a part of the mine output
16:04<@Alberth>for checking non-usage, I often look at the minimap, and see whether trains use all tracks
16:06<andythenorth>been wondering
16:06<andythenorth>whether it’s better to use ‘transfer and leave empty’ or ‘unload and leave empty’ with cdist
16:06<andythenorth>or whether that’s irrelevant
16:07<@Alberth>I think it doesn't matter, just visiting a station is enough, unless you really want to block return cargo
16:08<Wolf01>I don't know if cargo disappear with both when left at stations
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16:08<andythenorth>you have to block return cargo
16:08<andythenorth>to avoid unintended link creation
16:08<andythenorth>also not using unload (or transfer) causes wanted links to not be established
16:08<andythenorth>so vehicles just cycle back with the load
16:09<andythenorth>doesn’t affect pax or mail
16:09<andythenorth>but particularly bad with cargos like supplies
16:09<@Alberth>false, in my experience, it just takes a while for cdist to pick up the new cargo transport
16:10<@Alberth>but it does create the new link
16:10<andythenorth>really? with transfers?
16:10<andythenorth>or feeders rather
16:10<@Alberth>just "unload, and load if accepted"
16:11<andythenorth>on an A->B->C route
16:11<andythenorth>if vehicle is waiting at B on full load
16:11<andythenorth>and vehicle arrives from A
16:11<andythenorth>there is no link to C
16:11<andythenorth>so vehicle from A doesn’t unload
16:11<andythenorth>so vehicle at B never leaves for C
16:11<andythenorth>so link is never established… :D
16:12<@Alberth>I can see you may need to add no-loading to prevent taking cargo back from other sources though
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16:12<@Alberth>Hmm, never tried that scenario, I think
16:13<andythenorth>yeah when you have a source like A providing supplies to B and C
16:13<@Alberth>at least, not recently
16:13<andythenorth>and C is also supplied by Z
16:13<andythenorth>then Z-A needs to be prevented
16:14<@Alberth>if you want to forbid Z - A - B :)
16:15<fonsinchen>andythenorth: You have the special chance to name the next bug in most-annoying-for-mac-users order.
16:15<andythenorth>:o
16:15<andythenorth>hmm
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16:15<andythenorth>unreproducibly, the cursor sometimes locks to ‘drag map’
16:16<andythenorth>also screen resolution switching doesn’t work for me, but I think it’s a Mavericks issue
16:16<andythenorth>and it doesn’t affect my game
16:16<andythenorth>I have no other mac-related issues playing ottd
16:16<andythenorth>ffwd is currently bizarre, but that doesn’t matter
16:17*andythenorth looks in flyspray
16:19<fonsinchen>The bug has to be in FS. If you find a bug that's not there feel free to add it.
16:20<@Alberth>:)
16:21<andythenorth>hmm
16:21<andythenorth>I’m sure this can be closed http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5797?string=%5BOS+X%5D&project=1&type%5B0%5D=&sev%5B0%5D=&pri%5B0%5D=&due%5B0%5D=&reported%5B0%5D=&cat%5B0%5D=&status%5B0%5D=open&percent%5B0%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=
16:21<andythenorth>I can compile on Mavericks ‘works for me’ :P
16:21<andythenorth>also I updated the wiki
16:21<andythenorth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Mac_OS_X#Configuring_on_Mavericks
16:22<andythenorth>I can’t see any others that are interesting in flyspray :)
16:23<fonsinchen>I think michi_cc should close FS#5797 if it is fixed. It seems he has been active there. I can't really tell what it's about.
16:25<andythenorth>+1
16:38<+michi_cc>FS#5797 is about figuring out where inside configure and especially *when* to add LDFLAGS="-stdlib=libstdc++"
16:39<+michi_cc>It seems to be needed if gcc is really clang, but is it needed for all clang versions, even older ones?
16:45<andythenorth>I am going to upgrade to Yosemite soon (10.10) so that will likely add more changes :P
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17:08<andythenorth>fonsinchen: so does cdist make any distinction between ‘unload’ and ‘transfer’ for feeders?
17:09<fonsinchen>yes, if you manually specify either of them it will not route conflictingly
17:10<fonsinchen>So, if you do transfer it knows it cannot deliver to the station in question. If you do unload it knows it cannot transfer
17:10<andythenorth>interesting
17:10<andythenorth>I am using unload instead of transfer in my game
17:10<andythenorth>the results are as expected afaict
17:10<andythenorth>there’s no reason, just a habit I got into
17:11<fonsinchen>How can you have a feeder with unload?
17:11<fonsinchen>Or does it do unload at the pickup end?
17:11<andythenorth>truck from A (full load) -> B (unload and leave empty)
17:12<andythenorth>ship B (full load) -> C (accepted)
17:12<andythenorth>seems to work, transfer credits are being applied etc
17:12<fonsinchen>so B doesn't accept the cargo then?
17:12*andythenorth checks
17:13<fonsinchen>I think it's not smart enough to predict that the unload order is bogus.
17:13<andythenorth>B doesn’t accept the cargo
17:13<Wolf01>with cdist I prefer transfer because it hides losses, so less messages about trains with negative income
17:13<andythenorth>the cargo waiting at B has no destination until the ship arrives
17:13<andythenorth>then the ship loads it
17:14<fonsinchen>Yes, that's to be expected. Cargodist assumes that you mean unload if you specify it.
17:14<andythenorth>maybe I go back to transfer
17:15<andythenorth>just an odd habit I got into
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17:18<dandan_>Good evening
17:20<frosch123>hola
17:20<dandan_>I have a question: Why does autoreplace not work for articulated vehicles carrying more than one type of cargo?
17:21<dandan_>There is (at least) one such vehicle in Iron Horse and several in the SBB Set and it seems autoreplace cannot handle them
17:21<frosch123>because it is non-obvious what should happen
17:22<dandan_>Well, I can see that if you try to replace a different kind of vehicle by such a vehicle. But it does not even work for two vehicles of that kind.
17:23<frosch123>you mean autorenew?
17:23<dandan_>No, I mean autoreplace
17:23<dandan_>Suppose you have two types of vehicles, both articulated, both with passengers and mail
17:23<frosch123>most likely it has problems figuring out the refitting
17:23<dandan_>And you want to autoreplace one with the other
17:23<frosch123>the gui only allows whole vehicles to be refitted
17:24<frosch123>so once different arituclated parts have different refittability it already gets tricky at best
17:24<andythenorth>mixed articulated vehicles are a PITA
17:24<frosch123>one part carrying goods and mail, and the other goods and food
17:24<andythenorth>and best avoided imho
17:24<frosch123>i would just call it a BAD FEATURE :p
17:24<andythenorth>sorry I didn’t reply to your PM dandan_ :)
17:25<andythenorth>I couldn’t remember what the issue was
17:25<dandan_>no worries
17:25<dandan_>well, best avoided is always an easy solution
17:26<dandan_>But I guess there is nothing I can do from the NewGRF side
17:26<dandan_>That's my main question really
17:26<andythenorth>not easily
17:26<frosch123>anyway, autoreplace just skips those vehicles, because i couldn't be bothered to check all possible scenarios of different, shared on non-shared refittability
17:27<frosch123>if (IsArticulatedVehicleCarryingDifferentCargoes(v, &cargo_type)) return CT_INVALID; // We cannot refit to mixed cargoes in an automated way
17:27<dandan_>I know nothing about how autoreplace works internally - I don't really see why articulared vehicles should be that different from ordinary train consists as far as autoreplace is concerned
17:28<frosch123>dandan_: reffitting is based on whole vehicles, that's all
17:28<frosch123>once your composition does differ from "one vehicle, one cargo", things start to fail
17:28<frosch123>most obvious in the refit gui
17:29<frosch123>but to the same extent in autoreplace, in ais, everything that cannot read a readme
17:29<dandan_>Well, the refit GUI kind of pretends you have two vehicles, except you cannot select them separately. That's how it should be IMO. I see no fault with the refit GUI in that respect.
17:30<frosch123>dandan_: just imagine one part is refittable to mail + goods, and the other to goods+food
17:31<frosch123>refitting to "goods" changes both parts, refitting to the other changes only one part
17:31<frosch123>to refit such vehicle to mail+goods, you first have to refit to goods, and then to mail
17:31<frosch123>doing it the revers fails, since refit to goods would cancel the mail again
17:32<dandan_>I understand the GUI problem for that case. But autoreplace will handle a train with two separate vehicles, one refittable to mail+goods, the other to goods+food just fine.
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17:32<frosch123>no, autoreplace does exactly the thnig a human could also do
17:32<frosch123>just that it says "if refitting depends on the order it is done it, it is bollocks"
17:33<frosch123>again: refitting is done for whole vehicles, always; if newgrf think they can turn it into a per-articulated part, things will break
17:34<dandan_>Yes, that is what makes the difference, I understand now.
17:35<dandan_>I guess my passenger/mail driving trailers will be excluded from autoreplace. Too bad, but they are just gimmicks anyway from a gameplay point of view.
17:35<dandan_>Thanks for the explanation anyway.
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17:48<andythenorth>hmm
17:49<andythenorth>planes ignoring refit orders
17:49<andythenorth>yeah just ignored
17:49<andythenorth>bah
17:50<andythenorth>first order refit goods
17:50<andythenorth>second order refit pax
17:50<andythenorth>first refit is ignored
17:50<andythenorth>remove pax refit on second order, first order refit works
17:53<@peter1138>@seen pikka
17:53<@DorpsGek>peter1138: pikka was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 9 hours, 18 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <Pikka> it's pretty much six of one and half a dozen of the other.
17:54<frosch123>pikka has many names
17:54<frosch123>@seen pik*
17:54<@DorpsGek>frosch123: pik* could be Pikka (6 days, 9 hours, 18 minutes, and 59 seconds ago), Pikkaphone (1 week, 2 days, 10 hours, 29 minutes, and 15 seconds ago), Pikkaphone2 (2 weeks, 6 days, 15 hours, 2 minutes, and 51 seconds ago), Pikkaphablet (11 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 41 minutes, and 33 seconds ago), pikkas (1 year, 36 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 7 minutes, and 30 seconds ago), pikka2 (1 year, 42 weeks, 2 days, 19 (1 more message)
17:54<frosch123>@seen pok*
17:54<@DorpsGek>frosch123: pok* could be Pokka (2 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, 51 minutes, and 40 seconds ago) or pokkka (1 year, 40 weeks, 1 day, 5 hours, 13 minutes, and 9 seconds ago)
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17:56<andythenorth>who will win?
17:56<andythenorth>me or SV?
17:59<andythenorth>or bed?
17:59<andythenorth>bed
17:59<andythenorth>bye
17:59-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
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18:17<MTsPony>Anyone else noticed top of buildings appear/disappear at random latest trunk?
18:17<frosch123>tall building?
18:18<MTsPony>yep
18:18<frosch123>for very tall building that has always been happening
18:18<MTsPony>Really. I woulve noticed that if that were true
18:18<frosch123>but if it now also happens for less tall ones, it may be caused by more height levels
18:18<MTsPony>Just simply TTRS in example,
18:19<frosch123>yes, ttrs is one of the classic cases of too tall buildings
18:19<MTsPony>Never noticed it in our current build, 26694
18:20<MTsPony>I would definately have noticed this flickering lol.
18:20<frosch123>116 pixels at normal zoom levels or something is the max height
18:20<frosch123>iirc some of ttrs are 200 or so
18:22<MTsPony>well. I have two games open right now, both TTRS, it happens with the latest nightly, and not with 26694.
18:22<MTsPony>:p
18:23<frosch123>post a savegame to fs then :)
18:23<MTsPony>done :) save + cfg + screenshot.
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18:29<Sylf>I can vouch for that too - tall buildings (especially the blue one) in TTRS have been flickering forever
18:29<Sylf>I see it more often in r27018 and it may be due to more height levels. But as a random player, I've been seeing it for years.
18:32<MTsPony>That can be true, but if i can not see it happening at all in one of the not so old builds, thats really strange though?
18:33<MTsPony>I mean, Ive personally never experienced it at all, I see those kind of things with a blink of an eye, it instantly catched my eye, because im not used to seeing those buildings flicker at all,
18:33<MTsPony>hasnt happened on build 26694 or 26335 out of my head, at all.
18:33<Wolf01>TTRS buildings, especially that round tall one, flickers also at sea level
18:34<MTsPony>you would be surprised if i showed you live action of TTRS buildings not flickering :p
18:35<Sylf>I wouldn't be so shocked.
18:35<Sylf>I've see cases where they don't flicker as well
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18:52<argoneus>o/
18:55<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> if (IsArticulatedVehicleCarryingDifferentCargoes(v, &cargo_type)) return CT_INVALID; // We cannot refit to mixed cargoes in an automated way <-- what happens there if the passenger part is fixed, and the mail part is refittable to valuables and express cargos?
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18:55<Eddi|zuHause>the final result does not depend on the refit order
18:56<frosch123>it's one of those cases where i did not bother coding more details
18:56<frosch123>you can make it work in more cases for sure :)
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>i guess we will see more pax+mail vehicles in the near future
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>CETS also has some
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>DBSet will get some
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>when the wagons are 3-part anyway, it's a logical extension
19:00<dandan_>I agree with Eddi, but I am off to bed now ;-)
19:03<Wolf01>bed time too
19:03<Wolf01>'night
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19:04<dandan_>good night
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19:06<Eddi|zuHause><fonsinchen> Yes, that's to be expected. Cargodist assumes that you mean unload if you specify it. <-- that seems like a change in semantics to me. "unload" originally means "get this out of the vehicle, if the station does not accept it, store cargo for transfers", not "force delivering to this station"
19:07<fonsinchen>The assumption only holds for planning the routing
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19:07<fonsinchen>When the vehicle actually arrives at the station it will see that the route (deliver to station) is invalid and route "via any station" instead
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>yes, so the routing is probably wrong
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>it should consider transfers with unload orders
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>for example you could make orders like "unload, autorefit, load"
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>nobody would expect cargo do be force-delivered to this exact station
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19:33<supermop>anyone other than pikka used 32bpp color masks yet?
19:34<Sylf>color masks are for company colors etc?
19:34<frosch123>not sure how far nuts has progressed there
19:35<Sylf>I was thinking about 32bpp version of GRVTS
19:36<fonsinchen>Eddi|zuHause: unload is considered to be intended as "deliver to station", in contrast to "deliver if accepted".
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: but that's not the actual behaviour of "unload", so you can't use that as assumption for the routing
19:37<fonsinchen>OK, it could check station acceptance every time it plans the routing, but really? Seems overkill to me.
19:37<frosch123>fonsinchen: does unload/transfer make a difference on vehicle profit? or is it now always like transfer?
19:37<supermop>as i understand, the sprite is just grey/white with shading then you mask solid color over it?
19:37<fonsinchen>It has nothing to do with profit.
19:37<fonsinchen>The point is the decision if it will deliver or transfer is different
19:38<supermop>couldn't it also mask brick or plaster texture over it? to model the relief of the same facade but in two different materials?
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: it doesn't need to check the station acceptance, it should just not allow cargo staying in the vehicle, whether it then is delivered or transferred is still open
19:38<fonsinchen>It cannot let that open
19:38<fonsinchen>And it doesn't plan for cargo in the vehicle
19:38<supermop>i know it would look worse that rendering the brick etc, but could give some more variation to houses without vastly increasing number of sprites
19:38<fonsinchen>It assumes the cargo is delivered
19:39<frosch123>supermop: it's meant for company colours, not for sprite composition
19:39<fonsinchen>The whole point about the planning is that it tries to figure out where the cargo goes in advance
19:39<frosch123>supermop: oh, houses... you can compose houses from multiple sprites
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19:39<frosch123>it's called child sprites
19:40<frosch123>has nothing to do with masks
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: yes, but treating "unload" as "cannot transfer" is just too restrictive
19:41<fonsinchen>The original idea was that you shouldn't have order modifiers when using cargodist at all. Cargodist wants to handle that for you. But, OK, I'll see if I can handle that corner case.
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19:48<Eddi|zuHause>"Apple Yosemite automatically uploads unsaved documents to the cloud"
19:48<frosch123>isn't everything unsaved?
19:49<frosch123>once you move the cursor key or something
19:49<fonsinchen>Eddi|zuHause: How did we actually get the idea that it makes a difference between transfer and unload when planning. It doesn't really do so. The only thing that counts is "leave empty"
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: pretty much
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: dunno, i just picked up your statement
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19:51<fonsinchen>Order::CanLeaveWithCargo() <- that's all the magic behind it
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: maybe transfer and unload should be changed to have no difference at all if cargodist is enabled
19:52<fonsinchen>Why?
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>to simplify stuff
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>so the planning better matches what actually happens on arrival
19:53<fonsinchen>If there is a bug somewhere, please go to FS and add a savegame. Then I'll start working on it.
19:53<fonsinchen>Everything else is just BS
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>i have not actually played in quite a while
19:53<fonsinchen>good night.
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>so i can't say there are actual bugs
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20:04<frosch123>night
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20:34<supermop>hmm a 2:1 aspect looks too fat for these houses
20:34<supermop>really should be at least 3:1
20:34<supermop>but 3 houses per tile looks too tiny
20:35<supermop>maybe i wont draw the backyards as part of the house
20:36<supermop>or i could use all 2x1 tile houes for 4:1
20:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27048 trunk/src/table/newgrf_debug_data.h (2014-10-28 00:51:51 UTC)
20:51<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26158): Position in articulated vehicle is 4D, not 4A.
20:54<argoneus>good night train friends
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 28 00:00:32 2014