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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-11-01

---Logopened Sat Nov 01 00:00:38 2014
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02:27<@planetmaker>Jinassi, the memory requirement does not depend on player number. It depends on map size mostly. And then on number of vehicles and amount of transported stuff and industries, houses, objects....
02:28<@planetmaker>128MByte is too little for our coop servers. Even 256MByte didn't suffice for 512^2 maps
02:29<@planetmaker>Jinassi, thus argoneus' answer could be called simplified and mis-leading at best
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03:14<Jinassi>Thank you...It was 3 am and just wanted to satisfy a know-it-all quickly
03:15<Jinassi>on another note, players on reddit server1 went cahoots, tthey want their misshapen town to be the intro to new release...good giggle goes great with coffee
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03:47<Rubidium_>planetmaker: it's about the *minimum* requirements... so probably 64 MB might even suffice for a 64x64 map
03:47<Rubidium_>(without NewGRFs, vehicles, players, AIs, etc.)
03:48<Rubidium_>but as I calculated recently, you need over 10 thousand TB for a 1048576x1048576 map (disregarding any other overflow issues)
03:48<Jinassi>a player was interested in what it takes to run a server, 1 blade running minecraft, fileshare, 2 more games. wanted to add openttd too. Prolly would not end well as there's too low demand
03:49<@peter1138>If it can run Minecraft...
03:50<Jinassi>this game is actually a good stress testing tool, just need the right amount and "breed" of players
03:50<Jinassi>cough coop cough
03:51<Rubidium_>ah well, there are 115 MP players right now
03:51<Rubidium_>spread over some 300 servers
03:51<Rubidium_>i.e. the vast majority is empty and doesn't use much resources
03:52<Jinassi>if more players would be beneficial to the community, i could go beyond just Desura. IF
03:52<Rubidium_>so I could essentially state that the median server uses an insignificant amount of CPU resources
03:54<Rubidium_>Jinassi: when there were 100 servers, there were between 50 and 100 clients on average. The same relative amounts hold right now as well, so adding another 1000 active players around this time will just increase the number of servers by a factor of 10 too
03:57-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220149.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
03:58<Jinassi>well put
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04:04<@peter1138>Hmm, "Use loading indicators: Own company" in spectator mode...
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04:24<@peter1138>V453000, join brown, it's not passworded :p
04:25<V453000>xd thanks
04:25<@peter1138>Oh, it is now.
04:25<@peter1138>:(
04:25<V453000>is :d
04:25<V453000>can you remove it? :D
04:25<@peter1138>That would technically be naughty.
04:26<V453000>xd
04:26<V453000>technically
04:26*Jinassi looks away
04:26<V453000>4 trains 3 RVs :P
04:26<@peter1138>Aye
04:26<@peter1138>I
04:26<Jinassi>anyone in that comp?
04:26<@peter1138>I joined it to place a sign :p
04:26<V453000>I could also ask Jinassi to remove one of the low-vehicle companies :P
04:27<Jinassi>and i'd obey with no questions asked
04:27<Jinassi>just so peeps can see the glory of a well thought network
04:27<V453000>Jin I got a free day XD
04:27<Jinassi>WHAT COMPANY
04:27<V453000>idk brown
04:27<@peter1138>brown
04:27<Jinassi>its gone!
04:27<Jinassi>err, what number
04:27<@peter1138>It's not!
04:27<@peter1138>I'm in it, lol
04:28<V453000>15
04:28<V453000>666
04:28<Jinassi>and you are not letting him in? how rude
04:28<V453000>xD
04:28<V453000>well technically it iznt
04:28<@peter1138>Oops
04:28<@peter1138>The password got reset
04:29<V453000>tanks :D
04:29<V453000>I go find a spot
04:30<@peter1138>I wish I could follow V's mouse cursor :p
04:37<@Alberth>no patch for that?
04:48<V453000>:d
04:48<Jinassi>bussiness managers that last joined, any comments on your company so far?
04:49<@peter1138>Funny how they keep calling orange yellow :p
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04:56<@peter1138>Nice, 5 mil
04:57<V453000>I MADE US RICH :D :P
04:57<Jinassi>if this keeps up, we gonna need another server1
04:57<@peter1138>I feel the need to revive the company colours patch.
04:58<Jinassi>or divert more ppl your way, there's a lot of peeps that want to learn more, so far majority(hopefully) went to openttdcoop
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06:27<@peter1138>Cannot live without copy & paste... le sigh.
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06:29<@peter1138>"Roads can be connected only head - by head (it would save map memory slots and decrease number of sprites)." I wonder what the even means.
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06:30<Eddi|zuHause>i think he meant something like crossings can't have two types of road
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07:04<Wolf01>hello o/
07:06<@Alberth>moin
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07:28<@Alberth>o/
07:28<Wolf01>o/
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07:33<__ln__>can someone recommend a replacement for the linksys wrt54gl for the 2010's?
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07:33<Eddi|zuHause>around here, everybody and their mom have a fritzbox
07:35<insulfrog>o_0
07:35<__ln__>yeah, i've heard about fritz!box
07:36<argoneus>good morning train friends
07:36<insulfrog>hi btw
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08:51<@peter1138>Moo
08:52<Headbang>m00
08:56<supermop>yo
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09:41<Headbang>for any dutch guys who also like small trains
09:41<Headbang>there is an auction these five days
09:42<Headbang>which sells train stuff
09:42<Headbang>on veiling.catawiki.nl (modeltreinen)
09:45<Rubidium_>those are way too small to do any software development on
09:45<Headbang>i wouldnt have a clue about that, but i know that those train stuff canbe expensive so an action could be a nice deal
09:45<Headbang>:)
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09:51<Headbang>ive got my openttd server running on lubuntu with opengfx, if clients install zbase is that enough? or should it be on the server as well?
09:52<@Alberth>everybody can install any base set he/she likes
09:52<Headbang>ok, thanks
09:55<argoneus>planetmaker: well I'm not sure why my answer was misleading. The last time I asked what specs I need to run a server, you directed me to the wiki page, that says 32 MB minimum, 128 MB recommended
09:55*argoneus shrugs
09:55<Headbang>this is making me rethink of buying a tablet :) playing everywhere
09:57<@Alberth>argoneus: what's wrong with that?
09:57<argoneus>Alberth: that when someone yesterday asked how much memory is needed to run a server, and I said "like 128 MB is fine", my answer was called "misleading"
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09:59<andythenorth>any cat
09:59<andythenorth>?
09:59<Rubidium_>argoneus: wikis aren't really that right all the times
09:59<Rubidium_>for example: about half of the trains the company I work for uses are said to be "out of service" according to wikipedia...
10:00<argoneus>ok?
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10:02<Rubidium_>on a side note... you need at least 40 MB for the map (at 4096x4096)
10:02<Headbang>to be fair, as im new again (tried openttd years ago) but now it seems a forest of old and new info
10:02<Headbang>most of which is absolete
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10:02<Rubidium_>*if* you want to save that, and you do because of joining clients, you need at least double + space required for compression
10:04<Rubidium_>which is, IIRC, something in the order of 16 MiB for the default compression level (but 300+ MiB for the highest)
10:05<Wolf01>uhm, there's a news on the newspaper which tells what happened tomorrow
10:05<Rubidium_>ofcourse, with a 64x64 map you require a much smaller amount of memory
10:05<Rubidium_>Wolf01: but it already is tomorrow in New Zealand
10:05<Wolf01>but not here :D
10:06-!-dxtr [52062b91@cubox.dxtr.ninja] has joined #openttd
10:06<Rubidium_>yeah, that's the sad thing about news in New Zealand... they often get yesterday's news
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10:06<Wolf01>misleading titles, the title use past tense, when the article talks about previsions
10:06<insulfrog>also, you got to think on how many players are you going to have on your server as well and how big each trnsport network is going to be - it all adds up :)
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10:07<insulfrog>*transport
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11:09<Wolf01>i'll be back later, or tomorrow, bye
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11:26<NGC3982>We should invoke a "crash_vehicles_stay" parameter.
11:27<NGC3982>Would end up in some fun curse words in multiplayer.
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11:41*andythenorth ponders
11:42*Taede wanders
11:42<andythenorth>might drop the ‘Quadruple production if supplies delivered’ stuff from FIRS industry windows
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12:15<Eddi|zuHause>what should that achieve?
12:16<andythenorth>two things
12:16<andythenorth>I want to get away from double / quadruple
12:17<andythenorth>in favour of other amounts (or even player configurable) :o
12:17<andythenorth>also - side benefit - if I drop all industry window text, partial compiles become possible
12:17<andythenorth>the industry window text is mostly cruft imo
12:19<frosch123>he, i thought earlier that stringids are actually an easier part of the partial compilation :p
12:19<andythenorth>they’re random in nml
12:19<andythenorth>aiui
12:19<andythenorth>so umm
12:19<andythenorth>good luck with linking those :P
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>well, the problem is that all stringids must be known, even those that are not part of the to-be-compiled industry
12:19<frosch123>parsing the lang files takes no time (< 0.5s for all)
12:20<frosch123>you only need to know which are D0 and which are DC or something other silly
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>not every entry in the lang file gets a stringid
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>and not every stringid has an entry in the lang file
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>nmlc can compose strings on the fly
12:21<frosch123>and what parts of that are used by andy?
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>then the composite gets a stringid, and only the components are in the lang file, which get no stringid
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: like composing "string(STR_TWO_LINES, string(STR_1), str(STR_2))"
12:22<frosch123>i know, i saw cets earlier today
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>where STR_TWO_LINES is "{STRING}{}{STRING}"
12:22<andythenorth>in principle it doesn’t seem like a hard problem
12:23<andythenorth>but solving it correctly...
12:23*andythenorth is not a good enough programmer :|
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: CETS doesn't do composite strings like that
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>which makes it easier
12:23<frosch123>andythenorth: anyway, i think i can speed up the nml part of firs by factor 2 in the next week
12:24<andythenorth>:)
12:24<andythenorth>FIRS could drop the composite strings
12:24<andythenorth>or I could pre-compute them
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you must move the compositing to the header files
12:25<andythenorth>the header files we don’t have yet…?
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>but i think we discussed that already
12:25<andythenorth>I think I got 99% working code for it
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: well making a header file is easy
12:25<andythenorth>but it would have relied on a rely ugly set of splits on nfo
12:25<andythenorth>and I didn’t trust it
12:26<andythenorth>and every partial compile still had to render at least a stub for every industry in FIRS
12:26<andythenorth>with the cbs
12:26<andythenorth>it was much faster, but the amount of string (fragile, complex, ugly) didn’t seem worth it
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>well, CETS does this by a large switch that uses every string (that needs an ID) and every global callback
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12:28<andythenorth>frosch123: factor 2 is nothing to complain about :)
12:35<Headbang>hmm i did a content select 360 and content download on the console, it downloaded the file but didnt extract it? even after extracting i cant load it on the console?
12:35<Taede>did you do a rescan?
12:35<Taede>iirc its not supposed to extract, it uses the tar file directly
12:36<Headbang>ok , a rescan
12:37<Headbang>whats the command for that then? i did restart the deamon but that did not help either
12:37<Headbang>resetengines?
12:37<Zuu>not resetengines
12:38<Zuu>more like rescanais or similar
12:38<Taede>rescannewgrf
12:38<Taede>or rescanai or rescangame
12:38<Taede>depending on what the file inquestion is
12:39<Headbang>if i cd into the directory and do ls it doesntshow me the file on the console but its there
12:39<Headbang>Europe__Cities-2.tar
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12:40<frosch123>tar scenarios are different
12:40<frosch123>try to look into the main scenari folder
12:40<frosch123>not in the actual disc folder
12:40<frosch123>ottd does some magic mapping of files to other locations
12:40<Headbang>Europe v2.scn Europe v2.scn.id Europe v2.scn.title
12:41<Zuu>I don't think you need to unpack the tars
12:41<Headbang>ok
12:41<Headbang>i left the tar there
12:42<Zuu>OpenTTD knows how to look inside tars.
12:43<Headbang>ok
12:45<Headbang>hmm im still clueless then
12:48<Headbang>or do have to load the file first then save it so i can load it again
12:50<Headbang>that did the trick
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13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27052 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-11-01 17:46:13 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 24 changes by siu238X
13:46<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 19 changes by siu238X
13:46<@DorpsGek>swedish - 23 changes by Chrill
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17:18<@peter1138>V453000, what happened? :S
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17:21<@peter1138>Oh, disasters are on, lol
17:23<@peter1138>Hmm, this guy has a signal every tile... and also 40-long tunnels. Duh?
17:23<@peter1138>Ooh 60 long.
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17:26<V453000>peter1138: ?
17:26<@peter1138>Oh the reddit game heh
17:27<V453000>idk, built stuff but then had to go
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17:54<SpComb>oh srs, play-ttd.com has multiplayer support now
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18:38<FLHerne>Does it also still have the original graphics and a complete lack of visible license terms?
18:43<FLHerne>Yep
18:50<Headbang>if you keep getting the message connection seems interrupted for x seconds, the server running the daemon is to slow to keep up?
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18:59<FLHerne>IIRC the server's allowed to lag, are you sure the connection is actually ok?
19:00<+glx>server can be as slow as it wants
19:00<FLHerne>My RasPi had all kinds of issues with the Ethernet(-over-USB) when trying to run CPU-intensive stuff, but that's unlikely to apply to anything more typical
19:00<+glx>it gives the heartbeat
19:00<Headbang>well its all the time
19:01<Headbang>and its on a local network
19:01<Headbang>but ill admit its an old server pc
19:01<+glx>it's always best to use the slower machine as server
19:01<Headbang>and im running a 2056x2056 map
19:01<Headbang>yeah... :)
19:01<Headbang>was hoping to make it off some use
19:03<FLHerne>Have you tried just pinging the server continuously to see if there's actually a gap?
19:03<FLHerne>Wifi interference or something
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19:05<FLHerne>Sometimes this lump drops connection for 20s or so switching between APs at inconvenient moments
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19:08<Headbang>its cable
19:08<Headbang>well its almost every minute it says it now
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19:12<+glx>I'd say not enough RAM
19:12<+glx>so server needs to swap
19:13<Headbang>hmm now it dropped it all together
19:13<Headbang>but i was also dropped out of ssh
19:14<Headbang>its got 2g memor
19:14<Headbang>memory
19:15<Headbang>no X only the deamon
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19:36<frosch123>night
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21:53<argoneus>good night train friends
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 02 00:00:39 2014