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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-11-04

---Logopened Tue Nov 04 00:00:42 2014
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01:44<andythenorth>morning Pikka chops
01:44<andythenorth>I missed the other one
01:44<Pikka>you did at that
01:44<andythenorth>I did
01:44<Pikka>you did
01:44<andythenorth>and I was awake half the UK night
01:44<andythenorth>fixing servers in QLD
01:44-!-Hazzard_ is now known as Hazzard
01:45<Pikka>what's the word?
01:45<andythenorth>because people are wrong on the internet
01:45<andythenorth>so I had to stay up and argue
01:46<andythenorth>more accurately, !RoadTypes
01:46<V453000>andythenorth: why the ass isnt hogging road visible to stable on pineapplenanas shop?
01:46<andythenorth>because is brokens
01:46<andythenorth>all over your face
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01:48<V453000>a start! :D
01:48<andythenorth>nice box art
01:48<andythenorth>you should send that to shapeways btw
01:48<andythenorth>and get it at 1:32 or something
01:49<andythenorth>Pikka: what is go in pineapple land?
01:51<Pikka>gotta texture another loco
01:51<Pikka>then it's ready
01:51<Pikka>NARS is just about ready now, going to release it today I think
01:51<Pikka>I have this one week in which I can think about TTD stuff, then I think I'm done until, umm... March? D;
01:51<Pikka>when uni will start again. So maybe until July, haha.
01:56<andythenorth>so 1 week now to finish everything? o_O
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01:56<Pokka>V: you gotta chibi it up for TTD. Realistic dimensions will look spindly
01:57<Pokka>andy: pretty much.
01:57<V453000>just figuring out some basic shapes of the model
02:00<Supercheese>Keep changing your name and you will keep stymieing poor Dorpsgek's @seen
02:00<Supercheese>as andy discovered earlier
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03:25<@peter1138>Wrong? On the Internet? Surely not.
03:28<__ln__>Shirley who?
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03:30<@peter1138>Now I'm reminded of the pilots taking off scene in Airplane.
03:30<andythenorth>peter1138: I know, I was shocked
03:31<Supercheese>They must also be wrong off the Internet too
03:32<Supercheese>oh snap
03:33<@peter1138>Snap, prapple and cock.
03:33<@peter1138>That train is long.
03:33<andythenorth>not very
03:33<andythenorth>if I am NARSing I do about 30 tile trains
03:33<andythenorth>otherwise why bother
03:34<andythenorth>also we should extend newgrf spec for more good features
03:34<andythenorth>- dynamic braking capability
03:34<andythenorth>- air reservoir capacity
03:34<andythenorth>- train coupler strength
03:34<andythenorth>broken knuckle disaster
03:34<andythenorth>also hot-box breakdown
03:35<andythenorth>these are real train things
03:35<Pikka>leaves on the line disaster?
03:35<andythenorth>whatever your mind is thinking
03:35<@peter1138>Do trains explode whenever something breaks?
03:35<@peter1138>And decouple and spin madly...
03:36<Pikka>how about you can skimp on driver training, for a 5% reduction in running costs but a .01% chance of trains running a red signal? that would add greatly to the gameplay!
03:38<andythenorth>saw this picture yesterday, wondered if that train needed more power
03:38<andythenorth>only 6,600hp for those three wagons
03:38<andythenorth>peter1138: so action 1 / 2 / 3 roads then? o_O
03:51<@peter1138>Maybe we should implement daylength, badly, just to stop the endless supply of crappy patches and requests for specific versions...
03:52<Pikka>daylength is a terrible feature
03:52<Pikka>maybe if people stopped loading fifteen different train sets, all providing a hundred slightlydifferent locomotives, they wouldn't feel like they needed more time to use them all.
03:53<Supercheese>regearing gone...
03:55<@planetmaker>Pikka, those who use a dozen trainsets think they want to play "realistically" but in essence they just want "the best" (whatever that is) machine for a boring leveled all-accross-the-track line
03:56<Pikka>yep. but they're getting five new locos a minute and they can't handle figuring out which is "the best". So they want daylength to have more time to work it out.
03:56<andythenorth>daylength is bizarro
03:56<Supercheese>Well, even as a lad, I do recall wondering why the days were so short, and if I could make them longer...
03:57<Pikka>the game time is just a number, it doesn't matter. if you're trying to fill the map in a hundred years and you can't, play a smaller map.
03:57<Pikka>if you want to use allthetrains, play with fewer trains.
03:57<Supercheese>then again, back then the day only showed up when paused, when unpaused it just displayed the month
03:57<Pikka>etc etc
03:58<Pikka>if you want to build without the world changing much, build while paused.
03:58<Pikka>I don't understand the attraction of daylength, it's a bad solution to almost every problem.
03:58<Supercheese>yeah that's what I do these days
03:58<V453000>congrats Pikka :D
03:59<@peter1138>Let's remove the day display then.
03:59<@peter1138>It is pointless, anyway.
03:59<Supercheese>Huh was 0-4-0 Grashopper removed?
04:00<Pikka>it was
04:00<Pikka>is the set ruined forever now?
04:00<Supercheese>haha, no
04:00<Supercheese>I never did use it, just checking changes
04:00<@peter1138>No additional text, how will I ever know what to build now?
04:00<Pikka>I know right?
04:01<Supercheese>Norris T.E. nerfed
04:01<Eddi|zuHause><Pikka> the game time is just a number, it doesn't matter. if you're trying to fill the map in a hundred years and you can't, play a smaller map. <- i disagree.
04:03<V453000>wtf is the time good for then Eddi
04:03<V453000>it really is just a number, defining a few functions like available vehicles or type of houses, but not really important
04:04<@planetmaker>Pikka, the point of daylength seems to be that they can pick whatever and have new vehicles not being introduced
04:04<@planetmaker>or the latter only (much) later
04:05<@planetmaker>so... maybe we can get by with a really cheap solution to daylength
04:05<Pikka>turn on vehicles-never-expire and only build old locos?
04:05<Pikka>really cheap solution being "don't introduce new vehicles after x date"? ;)
04:05<Supercheese>Shay also gone
04:05<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it does matter a lot, because it allows people to match their own experienced world onto the game world
04:05<Pikka>shay also gone.
04:05<@planetmaker>well. maybe under the hood. we just have to sell it as new with a new button "day length"
04:05<Supercheese>I always preferred Climaxes anyway
04:05<Supercheese>(not that they were in OTTD)
04:06<V453000>really cheap solution would be to have grf parameter "spread engines over X years"
04:06<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: in my experience "just don't build them" doesn't work.
04:06<V453000>e.g. NUTS now plays for 200 years, with parameter it could be 400 or 600 years. tada, daylength
04:07<V453000>I was actually considering to do that but then couldnt figure an automatic way to do it and didnt feel like writing it manually XD
04:07<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: again, that only works if people do not expect a certain year to be matched with a certain engine
04:07<Supercheese>well it would work with NUTS since the engines are all WTF anyway
04:07<V453000>mental disorder at work
04:07<Supercheese>Realismz crowd would not approve of course
04:08<V453000>regardless, is it possible to add some parametric values to the date thing?
04:08<Eddi|zuHause>the point of "realism" is not to make things actually realistic. but to provide an anchor poiint between the game world and the player's own experience
04:09<Eddi|zuHause>and some people need more anchor points than others to enjoy a game
04:09<V453000>like date(2043 +x, 1, 1); the x?
04:09<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: date(game_start_year+parameter*intro_date_offset, 1, 1)
04:09<V453000>or would I have to make such a parameter by if parameter -bla- then : data A, date B, ...
04:10<V453000>can I just write it into NML like that and define those three things?
04:10<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't think it works like this
04:10<V453000>yeah I tried, it didnt :(
04:10<Eddi|zuHause>you need to find out the values that date() produces, and then put those in the code
04:10<V453000>some time ago but I doubt that changed
04:10<V453000>I will ask frog
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04:11<V453000>admittedly even if NUTS has the timetable hax, other vehicle sets wont cope XD
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04:18<andythenorth>just fake the date :P
04:18<andythenorth>just have ottd lie
04:18<andythenorth>someone would make charts
04:18<andythenorth>showing why it’s wrong
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04:19<Eddi|zuHause>that only works if you figure out which parts of the game to lie to differently
04:19<Supercheese>Future trains removed too
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04:20<Supercheese>we get the Acela though, nice
04:21<Supercheese>Aerotrain, huh
04:24<Eddi|zuHause><V453000> admittedly even if NUTS has the timetable hax, other vehicle sets wont cope XD <-- and exactly that is the purpose of daylength, to avoid implementing it separately in every newrgf
04:27<Pikka>aerotrain was in the old version, just hidden under the sw1200 :P
04:27*Pikka bbl, carry on complaining!
04:27-!-Pikka is now known as Pikka|dindins
04:28<@planetmaker>we should replace date with an era description :)
04:29<Supercheese>Bronze Age
04:29<Supercheese>Iron Age
04:29<andythenorth>we should stop worrying about it
04:29<Supercheese>AoE grf go
04:30<Eddi|zuHause>i always liked horse archers.
04:30<andythenorth>dogs will always chase cats
04:30<andythenorth>cats will always chase mice
04:31<andythenorth>and the forums will always have daylength threads
04:31<andythenorth>eternal verities
04:31<Supercheese>no death and taxes?
04:31<Supercheese>Dogs and cats first eh
04:31<Supercheese>anyway, time to sleep
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04:32<Eddi|zuHause>in my experience, dogs chasing cats is a myth
04:33<andythenorth>an eternal myth
04:33<Eddi|zuHause>and cats will chase everything that moves.
04:34<Eddi|zuHause>until it doesn't move. then it's immediately boring.
04:34<andythenorth>to works
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04:37<@planetmaker>'bronze era', 'steel era', 'steam era', 'electric era'...
04:38<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: plus research labs and a tech tree?
04:38<V453000>you forgot slug era pm
04:39<b_jonas>'nuclear era'
04:40<Eddi|zuHause>propeller era, jet era, supersonic era?
04:40<Eddi|zuHause>manpower era, horsepower era, steampower era, dieselpower era?
04:41<Eddi|zuHause>lots of ways to define eras.
04:41<Eddi|zuHause>how does that make things easier than a date?
04:44<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, sure. Self-build your trains. From selectable components
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04:46<@peter1138>Start the game in 4000 BC. Initially, time flies, but slows down later on.
04:46<@peter1138>Also make it turn based.
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04:52<@planetmaker>yep, something like that, peter :)
04:53<Eddi|zuHause>weird, internet disappeared for about a minute, but i didn't get thrown off all IRC networks...
04:54<@planetmaker>ping timeout... 7 minutes is long
04:56<argoneus>good morning train friends
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04:58<Eddi|zuHause>that's the server's ping timeout. the client has a totally different timeout...
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05:03<argoneus>Eddi|zuHause: do you live in / near adam?
05:04<argoneus>ah ok
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06:40<@planetmaker>that was linked yesterday, wasn't it?
06:41-!-Pikka|dindins is now known as Pikka
06:42<Pikka>sup kids
06:48<Pikka>no complaints about NARS yet? I'm disappointed. maybe in the morning NA time. :)
06:48<@peter1138>Oh, didn't see it :(
06:48<__ln__>i've never used it, but i can complain if you want.
06:49<__ln__>first of all, there are no klingon birds-of-prey available.
06:49<@peter1138>My scrollback doesn't show it at least.
06:49<Pikka>how do you know if you've never used it?
06:49<__ln__>a wild guess
06:56<@peter1138>Pikka, it's crap!
06:57<@peter1138>I can't play it any more ;(
06:57<@peter1138>(That might actually be something to do with being at work...)
06:58<Pikka>darn. well that's definitely a fault in the grf :)
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07:12<Pikka>it's an andy once more
07:12<andythenorth>twice more
07:12<andythenorth>no more BAD FEATURES
07:37<andythenorth>peter1138: dunno if this helps
07:37<andythenorth>otherwise we’ll send a DVD or a bootable thumb drive
07:37<andythenorth>seems USB is valid, but we missed a step (copy the contents of the .iso to the thumb drive, instead of the whole .iso)
07:38<@peter1138>That article is rubbish, talking about creating partitions with filesystems, and then... using dd to overwrite all that anyway.
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07:40<@peter1138>Why do I have floppy disks on my desk?
07:40<b_jonas>I've created bootable cd and dvd disks, even custom-made, but not bootable usb drives
07:41<b_jonas>I could probably create bootable usb drives too similarly
07:41<andythenorth>peter1138: floppy disks :o
07:41<@peter1138>Oh my fucking god, dog farted :(
07:41<andythenorth>are they from an acorn? o_O
07:41<@peter1138>Nah, they're 3½"
07:41<andythenorth>archimedes used 3.5
07:41<andythenorth>dunno, they broke a lot is what I mostly remember
07:42<andythenorth>multiple copies of everything
07:42<andythenorth>many hours spent swapping disks to take ‘safety copies'
07:42<andythenorth>we had a thing called pi-rat
07:42<andythenorth>it was a pi symbol and a rat
07:42<@peter1138>Oh, Archimedes :D
07:42<andythenorth>used to help all the teachers at school pirate software with it :P
07:43*andythenorth criminal past
07:43<andythenorth>now respectables
07:43<andythenorth>where is open source Chocks Away also
07:43<andythenorth>how hard can it be to move polygons around?
07:43<@peter1138>Anyway, I tried copying the .cdr to the USB stick directly.
07:44<@peter1138>I can choose Mac OS X Install DVD from the boot options then, but when selected it just tries to boot OS X.
07:46<andythenorth>how tedious
07:46<@peter1138>Same with holding C.
07:46<andythenorth>if it was set up right it would just go to the installer
07:46<@peter1138>So it's possible it's a copy of the files from the CD, but not the boot sectors.
07:47<@peter1138>Or whatever it is on a CD.
07:47<@peter1138>Or I'm doing it all wrong :D
07:47<andythenorth>ach, it’s an Apple thing
07:47<andythenorth>when it works it just works
07:47<andythenorth>and when it doesn’t, all bets off
07:47<@peter1138>Which is not impossible, but the Debian installer USB booted fine... eventually.
07:48<andythenorth>you get the boot options by holding alt?
07:48<andythenorth>yeah that’s the correct thing
07:48<andythenorth>there’s no other magic
07:48<@peter1138>Pressing C would boot the Debian installer, but it wouldn't work.
07:48<@peter1138>It worked with alt, though.
07:49<andythenorth>we’ll make another thing and test it and post it
07:52<@peter1138>Also I had to use efibootmgr to disable some entries before Debian would boot.
07:53<@peter1138>But that should not affect booting from CD/USB.
07:54<@peter1138>Wouldn't be surprised if the EFI firmware looks for OS X specifically :S
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12:21<V453000>no friends
12:33<@Alberth>I hardly ever ride in a train
12:34<FLHerne>How come? They're pretty good for getting places
12:34<@peter1138>No, they're pretty crap.
12:36<@planetmaker>depends. On private travel I rarely use a train
12:36<@peter1138>I've never chartered a private train ;)
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12:39<@planetmaker>One can charter here a historic tram along with a ride for whatever occasion you want. E.g. for a party
12:39<@planetmaker>going on the normal tram tracks trough town
12:40<Sylf>They let you charter a whole tram in Hokkaido for a private party
12:40<Sylf>Beer tram
12:40<Sylf>I want <3
12:40-!-Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
12:41<Rubidium>I guess you'll get Sapporo ;)
12:43<Rubidium>(not that the tram there was really notable)
12:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27055 /trunk/src/lang (simplified_chinese.txt traditional_chinese.txt) (2014-11-04 17:45:38 UTC)
12:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:45<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 6 changes by siu238X
12:45<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 49 changes by siu238X
12:46<Rubidium>the only major caveat of the beer tram idea is that the beer museum is quite a long walk from the tram...
12:48<Sylf>meh. nevermind hokkaido/sapporo. They have beer trains all over japan apparently
12:49*Rubidium wonders what constitutes a historical tram/train
12:56<@planetmaker>when you're in Japan you can also drink the world-best whiskey alegedly
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13:00<Jinassi>Or, soda drinks of every flavour imaginable.
13:07<Rubidium>reminds me to figure out where to get some okonomiyaki around here
13:07<Sylf>make it at home :)
13:10<Rubidium>it seemed quite complex when they prepared it for me
13:12<Sylf>I only use flour, water, cabbage, some kind of meat (usually pork) and water when I make it. top it with either worcestershire sauce or okonomiyaki sauce and japanese mayonnaise. it's basically a pancake with some extra ingredients
13:13<Sylf>then, my friend made the pseudo korean variant, with kimchi. yum.
13:14<@planetmaker>kimchi... yum yum :)
13:14<@planetmaker>was the only food which ever was served to me which was too hot for me to eat :) Lost sense of taste for hours :)
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>pro tip on handling hot food: blow it and wait a while.
13:15<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, the other hot. spicy-hot
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>lost in translation :p
13:16<Sylf>so, the other pro-tip comes into play? do not rub your eyes after handling such food?
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>that only applies if you handle it with your hands :p
13:17<@planetmaker>I did not do that... also I usually eat my food with cutlery, shopsticks in this case
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>i doubt i'd get along with chopsticks
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13:19<@planetmaker>not exactly tricky
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause>too many people got injured while i was learning to ride a bike :p
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13:40<NGC3982>Trying to use timetables.
13:40<NGC3982>conditional orders*
13:41<NGC3982>If i set a conditional order on "when 90% load, skip to next order"
13:41<NGC3982>How can i keep the train there?
13:41<NGC3982>Trying not to use full load settings.
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>"Do not watch this documentary about Fukushima if you have a winter depression."
13:42<FLHerne>You can't
13:43<FLHerne>You can have an 'if load < 90%, go around to the loading point again' though
13:43<FLHerne>But that's kind of ugly
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13:43<@Alberth>hi andy
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>just use a timetable
13:45<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: That doesn't work with industries with significantly-varying output though, like low-served secondaries
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13:46<NGC3982>I'm trying citybuilder for the first time.
13:46<NGC3982>And full load orders are not allowed.
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13:48<Eddi|zuHause>how do you manage to get not-full passenger trains?
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>provide a bus service to get ratings up
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>get flooded with passengers
13:49<ST2>complete section of the rule: Do not put full load orders on road vehicles in shared towns/cities.
13:49<ST2>wich, for me, makes sense - to avoid blocking other players RV's
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>that makes sense, yes.
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14:35<andythenorth>good answer
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>iz in ur konsole, reading ur filez
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14:48<__ln__>in 2014 physical keyboards for cellphones need to be crowdfunded, yet funding looks pretty effective.
14:53-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
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14:53<Wolf01>hi hi
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15:15<Wolf01>mh, banished 50% on steam... maybe
15:32<Xaroth|Work>it's fun, but not -that- much replayability
15:57<andythenorth>is bed
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16:28<Eddi|zuHause>for 10€ it's probably worth it.
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>but indeed, the replayability suffers of lack of design choices
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16:29<Eddi|zuHause>after a while it's just more of the same
16:30<Wolf01>it has modding now
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16:53<Wolf01>'night all
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---Logclosed Wed Nov 05 00:00:43 2014