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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-11-18

---Logopened Tue Nov 18 00:00:02 2014
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02:57<__ln__>http://www.badische-zeitung.de/schweizer-armee-hat-bruecken-mit-sprengstoff-bestueckt
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03:31<Eddi|zuHause>that is probably more common than you think
03:36<Pikka>all of my bridges in TTD are filled with explosives, for sure
03:37<Eddi|zuHause>west germany prepared its bridges near the border to east germany to take explosives, although the explosives themselves were stored in a nearby bunker
03:37<Eddi|zuHause>when the cold war ended and germany was reunited, they had trouble finding all the bunkers
03:38<@peter1138>Pikka, 32bpp 4x brick viaduct!
03:38<__ln__>some finnish bridges are also equipped with "slots" for explosives
03:39<Eddi|zuHause>when they replaced a bridge here in the 70s, they also found that its pillars had stored loads of explossives that were not detonated in the last phase of WWII
03:39<Pikka>good plan, peter1138
03:39<Pikka>get on that!
03:39<@peter1138>ok!
03:39<@peter1138>How do I Blender?
03:39<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138! NewViaduct!
03:39<@peter1138>Born_Acorn! NewBorn_Acorn!
03:40<Pikka>all good 32bpp graphics are made with 3dsm, anyway
03:40<Pikka>where "all good 32bpp graphics" == pineapple and YETI.
03:41<V453000>any drama I missed? :D
03:41<Eddi|zuHause>good old times
03:41<@peter1138>That's as maybe, but I don't have 3dsm.
03:42<V453000>blender works fine if you know how to use it :P
03:43<Pikka>yes
03:43<Pikka>blend away
03:43<@peter1138>Also I don't have £3,100
03:43<V453000>btw Pikka so far I chose stretching
03:43<Pikka>shameful
03:43<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/NUTS/flatbeds.png
03:43<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/NUTS/flatbeds2.png
03:43<V453000>very visible on the balls
03:43<Pikka>someone, probably me, should get on fixing up that diagonal speed patch
03:44<Pikka>har har, stretched yeti dudes
03:44<V453000>:)
03:44<@peter1138>Also it only runs on Windows? lol...
03:44<V453000>just fat :P
03:44<Pikka>they lose weight as they go around the corner :]
03:45<Pikka>as do their hats
03:45<Pikka>and the stretched steel balls D: oh my
03:45<V453000>cant say I have a huge conflict with it so far
03:45<V453000>lets see later
03:45<V453000>can always change that :)
03:45<Pikka>better to leave the gaps and work on the patch, imo ;)
03:46<@peter1138>That's what I said.
03:46<V453000>then do work on the patch, I can always re-render easily :P
03:46<V453000>this fits for me for now
03:47<V453000>I cant help you with any patches anyway :P
03:47<Pikka>I suppose I'll have to set up a build environment for openttd
03:47<Pikka>again
03:47<Pikka>actually last time I think it was ttdpatch, that's how long it's been
03:48<@peter1138>The game needs accurate subpositions :S
03:49<Pikka>it's not fudgable? :D
03:50<Eddi|zuHause>the game has "progress" substeps (256 per each vehicle step)
03:50<Eddi|zuHause>but the vehicle steps need to be put closer together on diagonals
03:51<Pikka>something like that
03:51<Eddi|zuHause>from 4px to 3px on – direction
03:51<Pikka>no
03:51<Flygon>Where're the OTTD svaes stored again?
03:51<Pikka>I doubt that's right, Eddi
03:52<Flygon>Transferring crap to a new computer again and I can't find them <_>
03:52<Pikka>when you click save in the game, Flygon
03:52<Pikka>doesn't it show the path at the top of the window?
03:52<Flygon>Oh
03:52<Flygon>Uh, lemme see if OTTD works in remote desktop
03:52<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: how else are you going to fix the distance between vehicles?
03:52<Flygon>Dat lag
03:52<V453000>yeah :|
03:52<Flygon>Alright, thanks
03:53<Flygon>Sorry, never ever used Documents for saves before x.x
03:53<Flygon>In fact, I've always deliberately avoided Documents Xd
03:53<V453000>you either space -- closer or // further apart :D
03:53<Flygon>xD*
03:53<Pikka>it's actually nothing to do with spacing
03:53<Pikka>it's about speed
03:53<Pikka>the vehicles travel too fast in the - and | views
03:54<Flygon>Hahaha oh wow
03:54<Pikka>that's what needs fixing, and it's much more complicated than 4 > 3. :)
03:54<Flygon>This is so cool, I can copypasta from one computer to another with remote desktop
03:54<Flygon>Anyway, sorry for the fuss
03:54<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: yes, because the steps are too big.
03:54<V453000>mhm
03:54<V453000>so basically you think making them travel with equal speed should fix this difference?
03:55<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: the steps need scaling by 1.41, 4>3 is 1.5
03:55<Pikka>basically. which could indeed be achieved by making the stems smaller :)
03:55<@peter1138>Steps are not "4 pixels"
03:55<@peter1138>Steps are "1 internal unit"
03:55<Pikka>and steps
03:55<@peter1138>For - and | that is 1 horizontal and 1 vertical.
03:56<@peter1138>Eh, assuming looking down from top of map :p
03:57<Pikka>sooo.. how much more accurate to the subpositions need to get? another byte? :)
03:57<Eddi|zuHause>well, the point i'm trying to make is, basically, the grid along which the vehicles move is a bit too crude
03:58<@peter1138>The only way to change that is to increase the resolution.
03:58<V453000>MOAR PIXULZ
03:58<@peter1138>Not pixel resolution :p
03:58<V453000>:P I know
03:59<Eddi|zuHause>yes, so either you use the "progress" substeps to fudge that, or you increase the actual 3D-coordinate resolution
04:00<Eddi|zuHause>(which would also help with Bad_Brett's vehicle stepping issue)
04:00<@peter1138>"progress" is inaccurate. It gets fudged at signals, and direction affects it.
04:01<@peter1138>It's also only set for the front engine, as far as I can see.
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04:04<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it still wouldn't solve the vehicle spacing
04:04<Eddi|zuHause>and the way direction affects it is probably wrong
04:04<Pikka>there's a patch that nearly works
04:04<Pikka>that's the obvious place to start, didn't you look into that one, peter1138?
04:08<@planetmaker>moin moin
04:09<@peter1138>Sure. I tried it, but I didn't look at the changes. It broke.
04:09<V453000>hyhy :)
04:10<V453000>yeti compiles like a madman :P
04:17<andythenorth>lo
04:17<andythenorth>also o/
04:19<andythenorth>fudge all the things
04:19<Pikka>hallo an andy
04:19<Pikka>yes
04:19<Pikka>fudge it all
04:19<Supercheese>sounds like toyland
04:21<Supercheese>Although the lack of chocolate in toyland always bugged me
04:21<V453000>nuts haz it :P
04:22<andythenorth>superchocolate
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04:28<Supercheese>Oh dangit, I seem to have messed up the webtranslator again
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04:30<Supercheese>Guess I'll need to revert the strings back to when things were working fine
04:34<@peter1138>" No newgrf is closed to addons "
04:34<Pikka>innit though
04:34<@peter1138>*cough* oztrans *cough*
04:34<@peter1138>Disable ALL the things!
04:34<Pikka>doesn't count. anyway, one could have made an "addon" grf for the canset
04:35<Pikka>up until the point oztrans got wind of it and disabled his set if anyone used it.
04:35<V453000>XD
04:35<@peter1138>hrh
04:35<V453000>also mr oztrans doesnt exist anymore :P
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04:36<@peter1138>Octomom?
04:36<@peter1138>V453000, shame.
04:37<V453000>?
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04:40<Pikka>octomom, apparently.
04:41<@peter1138>Yes, yes.
04:50<andythenorth>where is cat?
04:51<andythenorth>Pikka: you might as well add the canadian stuff now that you’ve started on NARS 3.0
04:55<Pikka>I thought I did
04:55<Pikka>candanian hudson at least. and jublee.
04:56<Pikka>32bpp canadian set?
04:56<andythenorth>animated rivets
04:57<Pikka>all of them
04:57<andythenorth>animated drama
04:57<Pikka>animated maple syrup
04:57<V453000>Pikka: how long did it take for you to model one train engine? roughly?
04:58<Pikka>depends how focussed I was, V
04:58<@peter1138>Pikka, add optional "running sounds" to 10cc.
04:58<Pikka>also once you've done one you start using it as the base for the next, so it gets faster
04:58<@peter1138>Except instead of being train sounds, make it the trollolol song.
04:59<Pikka>in the language of hitler, no, peter1138
04:59<@peter1138>You disappoint me very sprites.
05:01<Eddi|zuHause>make it say "wololo" if you change colours :p
05:02<Eddi|zuHause>what i'd actually like is a short pipe whistle, instead of the long ones that steam engines use
05:03*andythenorth needs to do sounds one day
05:04<V453000>Pikka: days, hours? :D
05:04<andythenorth>hopefully I can find an industry noise that is equally as annoying as the sawmill noise
05:04<V453000>xd
05:04<Pikka>V; a few hours if I focus. When I was really knuckling down on Pineapple I was doing about a vehicle a day.
05:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the explosion noise. always puts me off.
05:06<Pikka>bewm.
05:06<Pikka>my quarries in TaI made explosion noises, it upset a lot of people. :P
05:06<Eddi|zuHause>exactly
05:07<V453000>sounds reasonable :)
05:07<V453000>I was just wondering if I am missing something key or if detailed vehicle is simply a lot of work :P
05:07<V453000>apparently the latter
05:07<@peter1138>It doesn't need to be highly detailed, does it?
05:08<V453000>at least somewhat
05:08<Pikka>it can be difficult to stay focussed, and complex shapes can be hard to get right if you're an old-school low-poly modeller. :P
05:08<V453000>quite :)
05:08<andythenorth>I liked the TaI explosions :P
05:08<Eddi|zuHause>there's always some more detail you could add
05:08<Pikka>personally I think TTD sprites are better if not too overdetailed. gotta be chibi and a little toylike. ;)
05:08<@peter1138>I guess there will always be people complaining the bogies are not quite the right shade...
05:09<V453000>:)
05:09<Pikka>got any locos done yet, V?
05:10<V453000>sort of, very basic ones
05:10<V453000>need to get it done, wont have time in the next week
05:10<V453000>modern ones, figured simple shape with a texture is enuf :D
05:10<@peter1138>I kind of expected someone to have used 4x sprites to massively change the scale by now.
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05:11<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/NUTS/MAG_ENGINES_0000.png
05:11<andythenorth>someone is somewhere
05:11<@peter1138>Much smaller scale, to have Realistic! lengths...
05:11<andythenorth>pops up here every few months, someone doing it all as over-sized narrow gauge
05:11<andythenorth>can’t remember who
05:11<V453000>no company colours yet
05:11<V453000>idk how to do that atm
05:12<V453000>just basic model, unwrapped and texture painted on it
05:13<@peter1138>If I bought an engine that looked rusty when new... :p
05:13<V453000>:P
05:14<V453000>tis just to fake some details XD
05:14<Pikka>not very realisms, V :P
05:14<V453000>indeed :)
05:14<@peter1138>I still say they're a bit tall.
05:14<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/NUTS/MAG_FLATBED_0000.png (:
05:14<V453000>this was rather quick however
05:15<Pikka>too quick, it doesn't work
05:15<@peter1138>It worked second time.
05:15<Pikka>it did
05:15<V453000>byg file :P
05:15<Pikka>ho ho that stretch
05:15<Pikka>terrible
05:15<V453000>:D
05:16<V453000>go minionize tha patch :P
05:16<Eddi|zuHause>why do you have to render the empty one so many times?
05:16<V453000>just bad approach so far Eddi
05:16<@peter1138>What's 3B/3D?
05:16<V453000>am aware
05:16<V453000>peter1138: IDs in the model grid
05:17<V453000>ah you mean specifically
05:17<@peter1138>lol
05:17<@peter1138>Yes :p
05:17<V453000>3B 3D are sweets
05:17<@peter1138>Ahhh
05:17<V453000>3F is toys
05:17<Pikka>why does 61 sprite 6 say "eti" instead of "yeti"? ;)
05:18<@peter1138>31 looks like toilet paper :S
05:18<V453000>idk Pikka
05:18<V453000>peter1138: it is :)
05:18<@peter1138>o
05:18<@peter1138>Implementing custom shaders for the refraction of 05 will be fun ;)
05:19<V453000>yeah thats quite bad in general
05:20<@peter1138>Too much realism overall.
05:20<V453000>noted, will try harder
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05:21<andythenorth>so
05:21<andythenorth>minecraft has happened
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>before or after it was sold to microsoft?
05:22<Pikka>someone ought to make a minecraft -> newgrf converter, that would be far easier than me learning how to draw and code newgrfs.
05:23<Eddi|zuHause>cubicles!
05:24<@peter1138>Happened?
05:25<andythenorth>this weekened
05:25<andythenorth>weekend *
05:25*andythenorth managed to avoid minecraft entirely until now
05:26<Eddi|zuHause>the kids dragged you into it?
05:26<andythenorth>yup
05:26<andythenorth>turns out to be highly addictive for a 4.5 year old
05:26<andythenorth>very much tantrums when he can’t do it
05:26<Eddi|zuHause>i can imagine :p
05:26<Pikka>as a mishmash of incompatible and half-baked features, minecraft is even better than openttd. :)
05:26<andythenorth>so when are we converting openttd to cubicles?
05:26<andythenorth>also mineccraft is so buggy
05:26<andythenorth>it’s almost as though they just don’t care :)
05:27<Pikka>well
05:27<andythenorth>bugs are features
05:27<Pikka>microsoft owns it now, so all that will change :)
05:30<andythenorth>can we sell ottd to microsoft?
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>unlikely
05:31<Eddi|zuHause>with a legal status of "we don't know" and a business model of "give it away for free"...
05:36<argoneus>have you guys ever had an exam
05:36<argoneus>where you needed X points, but got X-1 points, thus fail?
05:37<Pikka>study harder next time, innit.
05:37<argoneus>there is no next time :D
05:37<argoneus>D:*
05:40<andythenorth>have I ever had an exam?
05:40<andythenorth>hmm
05:40<Pikka>what, never?
05:41<argoneus>Pikka: well
05:41<argoneus>there's a "repair" test in january
05:41<argoneus>but at this point I'm not sure if I can do it
05:41<argoneus>and january is far and I'll forget it by then
05:43<Pikka>can't be that important, then.
05:44<argoneus>what can't be important?
05:44<@peter1138>The exam.
05:44<argoneus>why wouldn't it be important? ;o
05:45<andythenorth>oh yes I had some exams
05:45<andythenorth>I remember now
05:45<Eddi|zuHause>if you forget it, it wasn't important
05:45<andythenorth>I killed some of them
05:45<andythenorth>some of them killed me
05:45<andythenorth>one day I decided I didn’t want to do exams any more
05:45<Eddi|zuHause>i never failed an exam. but i failed an interview once.
05:46<argoneus>andythenorth: are you a bachelor?
05:46<andythenorth>you mean degree-wise?
05:46<andythenorth>not marriage-wise?
05:47<argoneus>well
05:47<argoneus>at what day did you decide you don't want to do exams
05:47<andythenorth>in my case, 3 years before the last one I did :P
05:47<andythenorth>patience grasshopper
05:48<argoneus>so you did get an undergrad?
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05:56<andythenorth>yes
05:57<argoneus>well that's something then
05:57<argoneus>I only have high school education atm
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05:57<Pikka>ho ho, what kind of loser doesn't even have a bachelor's degree? :)
05:58<andythenorth>naughty Pikka
05:58<argoneus>me :<
05:58<Pikka>(me neither)
05:58<argoneus>Pikka: how old are you?
05:58<Pikka>old enough :)
05:59<andythenorth>he’s a child of Thatcher probly
05:59<Pikka>not literally, andythenorth
05:59<andythenorth>it’s the stolen milk, damaged his brain
05:59<__ln__>a bachelor's degree is the minimum requirement for ESA's astronaut training
06:01<Pikka>actually, until I was in my mid twenties, my official level of education was "did not complete year 10". :) very misspent youth.
06:02<andythenorth>http://cache.lego.com/r/www/r/technic/-/media/franchises/technic/products/2hy/42028_a_image.png?l.r=1162171732
06:02<argoneus>and now you are the CEO of openttd
06:02<andythenorth>^^ too bouncy
06:02<andythenorth>the rear sprocket, the angle is too acute
06:02<andythenorth>it snags the tracks
06:02<andythenorth>so they bounce off the teeth
06:02<__ln__>andythenorth: i pasted this yesterday but you weren't online: http://www.i-programmer.info/news/105-artificial-intelligence/7985-a-worms-mind-in-a-lego-body.html
06:02<@peter1138>Bad feature.
06:02<Pikka>terrible. maybe it's a test, you're supposed to redesign it.
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06:05<andythenorth>maybe
06:05<andythenorth>shameful
06:05<andythenorth>child said the other day
06:06<andythenorth>“why doesn’t Lego come already made? Why do you have to build it?"
06:06<andythenorth>moral decline
06:06<Pikka>absolutely
06:06<andythenorth>proof that everything is definitely getting worse since the dawn of time
06:06<andythenorth>must have been awesome in the year dot
06:06<andythenorth>highest possible moral standards
06:06<andythenorth>everyone left their door unlocked
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06:08<Pikka>they only had locks so they could leave them unlocked, right.
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06:08<andythenorth>proves the point
06:09<andythenorth>people round here are lovely
06:09<andythenorth>they’d do anything for you
06:09<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials
06:09<andythenorth>etc
06:09<Pikka>si
06:11*andythenorth stops before it’s politics
06:11<andythenorth>and therefore kban
06:12<SpComb>someone doesn't understand lego .(
06:13<andythenorth>just someone?
06:14<Pikka>politics are fun though
06:14<Pikka>down with this sort of thing. :)
06:15<@peter1138>Prebuilt Lego is like prebuilt road or rail layouts in OpenTTD.
06:15<@peter1138>You wouldn't copy & paste Lego!
06:15<@peter1138>You wouldn't steal a car!
06:18<Pikka>might do :o
06:18<argoneus>does lego have block signals
06:18<Pikka>lego only has block signales
06:18<Pikka>and signals
06:20<andythenorth>cylinder signals
06:20<andythenorth>snot signals
06:21<@peter1138>Lego has actual electricity!
06:21<Pikka>I do like a bit of snot
06:21<@peter1138>Motors! Lights!
06:21<@peter1138>Although probably they don't do that stuff anymore...
06:21<@peter1138>It used to work for a few days and then never again.
06:21<Pikka>all the computers at uni have the mindstorms software on them, I don't know who actually uses it though.
06:22<@peter1138>And it was a major cause of house fires, due to being the only thing that ever used 9v batteries, beside smoke detectors.
06:22<andythenorth>and battery chargers….
06:23<@peter1138>I have a 9v rechargable. It's useless.
06:23<andythenorth>takes hours
06:23<@peter1138>8.4v indeed...
06:23<andythenorth>also lego do motors in vast quantities now
06:23<andythenorth>so many motors
06:23<andythenorth>makes it less fun when the batteries are dead
06:24<andythenorth>motorised rivets
06:25<andythenorth>porridge should be tastier
06:25<Pikka>it is
06:25<andythenorth>with bacon?
06:26<andythenorth>this is no salt, no sugar, no golden syrup
06:26<andythenorth>no bananas
06:26<andythenorth>no bacon
06:26<@peter1138>Meccano motors were worse, because they used infinitesimally thin scraps of plastic to hold it all together.
06:27<@peter1138>So you built it all up, turn it on, and the machine shredded itself to pieces. And then the battery went flat.
06:28<andythenorth>couldn’t get on with meccano
06:28<andythenorth>seemed tedious
06:28<andythenorth>all the limitations of a grid system, all the faff of doing nuts and bolts, no upside
06:31<@peter1138>It's useful for repairing things about the house...
06:32<andythenorth>can you weld it?
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06:37<@peter1138>Possibly...
06:37<@peter1138>Hmm, Windows Live Messenger finally gone, or just my system playing up?
06:37<andythenorth>is gradual processing good?
06:37<andythenorth>should FIRS do it?
06:38<Pikka>didn't windows live messenger go about three years ago?
06:38<Pikka>I quite like it, andythenorth
06:38<@peter1138>Officially, but the servers were still there and there were still people on it.
06:38<Pikka>whether that means FIRS should do it or not I don't know.
06:38<@peter1138>3rd party clients still worked with it.
06:39<andythenorth>the problem is
06:39<andythenorth>how much to process?
06:39<V453000>everything, just over time
06:39<andythenorth>you can end up chasing a moving target
06:39<andythenorth>V453000: at what rate?
06:39<V453000>YETI processes 10% of currently waiting cargo per 256 ticks
06:39<V453000>works great
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06:40<V453000>creates a buffer of a supply, when you deliver more, it produces more, when you deliver less, it produces less
06:40<andythenorth>so same as delivering 10% of the cargo to an instantly producing industry
06:40<andythenorth>except with more faff?
06:40<V453000>yeah
06:40<andythenorth>moar trains
06:40<andythenorth>so yak-shaving?
06:40<V453000>it is just generally nicer, not a big functional change
06:40<Pikka>TaI used to try and balance out the processing so the industry didn't run out. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with pineapples yet
06:41<Pikka>but I'm thinking of doing it next, I need a good industry set to play with ;)
06:41<V453000>:)
06:41<V453000>how dare you, go YETI :P
06:41<andythenorth>there are no good industry sets
06:42<Pikka>I have been, but I don't like the yeti dudes mechanic much. :) having only one raw material used by so many industries and having all the chains so interlinked, it somehow doesn't suit my playstyle. ;)
06:42<V453000>:)
06:43<V453000>it requires a good network yes :P
06:44<andythenorth>FIRS basic temperate is maybe the only decent thing I’ve played recently
06:44<andythenorth>heart of darkness seems ok, but has way too many useless industries
06:44<@peter1138>I played... default, recently.
06:44<Pikka>pineapple industries will be a bit default+, like TaI was
06:45<andythenorth>maybe I should play TaI
06:45<andythenorth>it’s just PBI renamed?
06:45<Pikka>pretty much
06:45<V453000>default+ is always nice
06:45<Pikka>there were plans but they never got implemented
06:45<andythenorth>plans are for mice
06:46<@peter1138>TaI is still nice.
06:46<andythenorth>I played a lot of PBI
06:46<andythenorth>because it is improved gameplay
06:47<andythenorth>also not too big
06:48<Pikka>needs more 32bpp
06:49<Pikka>and supplies
06:49<andythenorth>one dubious feature
06:49<andythenorth>one BAD FEATURE
06:49<andythenorth>you’re allowed one more under quota rules
06:50<Pikka>stockpiling and gradual processing is a bad feature according to some people
06:50<andythenorth>well
06:50<andythenorth>yes
06:51<andythenorth>also anything requiring text handling
06:51<andythenorth>so all things that need explained in industry window
06:51<andythenorth>and all things that need explained in fund-industry menu
06:51<Pikka>I will avoid text wherever possible
06:51<horazont>Ill just throw ECS into the discussion and see what happens
06:52<andythenorth>I want to remove the text in FIRS
06:53<horazont>wee, FIRS looks heavier than ECS
06:54<andythenorth>yes, it weights at least 10KG
06:54<horazont>moar cargoes
06:54<Pikka>regearing
06:55<andythenorth>I should add a regearing factory to FIRS
06:55<andythenorth>that would fuck with them
06:55<Pikka>yes
06:56<andythenorth>then NARS 2.5 can ‘have’ regearing
06:56<@peter1138>:D
06:56<V453000>XD
06:58<Pikka>except nothing will refit, unless you give it a cargo class ;)
06:59<V453000>universal wagons might :)
06:59<andythenorth>“bug reports to Pikka", problem solved
06:59<Pikka>as usual
07:00<andythenorth>I should make FIRS faster
07:00<Pikka>how do you make firs faster
07:00<Pikka>?
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>more power!
07:01<V453000>vacuum tube!
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07:03<andythenorth>compiling
07:03<andythenorth>then I can add more bad features
07:04<andythenorth>then the compile will be slower again
07:04<andythenorth>and then I can stop
07:04<V453000>YETI 0.1.0 lives XD
07:05<andythenorth>:)
07:05<Pikka>what does it do?
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07:07<horazont>on the one hand, FIRS looks great, but on the other it seems to be even more complex. also the FIRS economy doesn’t have these fancy dock-style industries :(
07:09<V453000>Pikka: everything
07:10<andythenorth>horazont: the FIRS economy is totally stupid
07:10<andythenorth>don’t use it
07:10<andythenorth>it’s just for foamers
07:10<V453000>"change it or stfu" ?:P
07:11<andythenorth>poll says I can't
07:11<horazont>what are foamers?
07:11<andythenorth>V453000 is a foamer
07:11<horazont>well that’s not a helpful explanation
07:12<V453000>I dont understand either :P
07:12<andythenorth>http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Foamer
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07:16<@peter1138>FUZxxl, "Please do not abbreviate OpenTTD to OTTD. OpenTTD is an abbreviation already." < Lies
07:16<andythenorth>can’t get the staff
07:17<FUZxxl>peter1138: Isn't it an abbreviation for “Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe?”
07:17<andythenorth>no
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure andythenorth is the biggest foamer of all, otherwise he wouldn't be so foaming about foamers
07:17<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: rumbled
07:17<andythenorth>no argument
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>it's like all the politicians who are so angry about gay people that later turn out to be gay themselves
07:18<FUZxxl>Are there more formers in the US than in Europe?
07:18<FUZxxl>*foamers
07:18<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: but I’ve been through a treatment program to correct my foamer tendencies
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think it worked :p
07:19<Pikka>repeat after me, "omg who cares it's just a train".
07:19<V453000>XD
07:21<@planetmaker><andythenorth> it’s just for foamers <-- hehe. And as such it's a good red herring. Just keep it and they can foam about what you don't care and they will still be grateful :)
07:21<andythenorth>yes but what kind of train?
07:21<andythenorth>and what kind of dynamic brake blister does it have?
07:22<andythenorth>and is that livery historically accurate?
07:23<Pikka>Being able to count the wheels on a steam engine basically makes you autistic. On the other hand, being able to tell the difference between a 1983 holden commodore and 1984 holden commodore by the slight difference in the shape of the tail lights? Perfectly normal and indeed admirable blokey knowledge.
07:23<andythenorth>batting averages...
07:24<andythenorth>also why is there red on me?
07:24<andythenorth>tastes like blood
07:24<@planetmaker>scratching your head too much?
07:25<Pikka>99.94, andythenorth
07:25<andythenorth>baked bean injury
07:25<andythenorth>easily done
07:25<Pikka>every australian knows that one, Little Johnny even wanted to put it on the citizenship test.
07:26<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Larwood
07:26<andythenorth>is all I’m saying
07:27<andythenorth>born where I come from, and with approximately the standard attitude for those parts
07:27<andythenorth>even looks vaguely like me, perhaps we’re related :P
07:27<Pikka>they're all related where you come from, aren't they? ;)
07:29<andythenorth>my friend who worked in the hospital there said yes
07:29<andythenorth>hmm, my great-great-great-great-something kept the tollgate where Larwood was born
07:29<andythenorth>fascinating digressions
07:29<andythenorth>back to foamers?
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07:32<Pikka>foam to backers
07:32<Pikka>oh look
07:32<Pikka>text
07:32<Pikka>in YETI
07:32<Pikka>shameful
07:32<andythenorth>urgh
07:32<andythenorth>no partial compiling for him
07:33<V453000>XD
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07:45<@planetmaker>andythenorth, the long part is our use of nfs which tremendously slows down pushing large files. With a hot .nmlcache the compile takes 40 seconds ;)
07:45<andythenorth>for yeti?
07:45<andythenorth>:o
07:45<@planetmaker>yes
07:45<andythenorth>that is fairly spectacular
07:45<@planetmaker>look at the log times from a 'push' type build
07:46<@planetmaker>(not releases, there I trash the cache and build from scratch)
07:46<@planetmaker>which then takes 80 minutes
07:47<@planetmaker>and well, yes. frosch build a c module for nmlc which encodes and caches the real sprites. pretty fast.
07:56<V453000>NUTS 0.7.5 lives =D
07:56<V453000>tried uploading by musa, seems it worked :D
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08:01<@peter1138>Now you can update the release thread and everyone can complain!
08:03<V453000>OR I can not give a fuck about any forums? :)
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08:10<@peter1138>They're useful for trolling.
08:10<V453000>I dont think I need to continue making an idiot of myself in the nuts thread anymore
08:11<V453000>similarly with yeti
08:11<V453000>nothing constructive comes out of it anyway
08:14<andythenorth>just get yourself banned
08:14<andythenorth>easier
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>make your own forum and only allow people that are registered and posted at least once to download any files
08:16<andythenorth>make a broken wiki
08:16<andythenorth>Pikka can lend you his
08:16<Pikka>I can
08:16<V453000>XD
08:16<Pikka>maybe I did, how could one tell?
08:16<V453000>one suggestion better than another
08:17*andythenorth hasn’t made any newgrfs for ages
08:17<andythenorth>today is chores, and minecrafr
08:17<andythenorth>minecrafg
08:17<andythenorth>minecrafy
08:18<andythenorth>the main problem is that pikka has not made a GS yet :(
08:18<Pikka>openttd
08:18<Pikka>well
08:18<Pikka>my rates are very reasonable :)
08:18<Pikka>and I have an idea for one :)
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>the most openttd-y thing i did in minecraft was connect my farm and two villages with an electric rail line
08:20<V453000>I made a proper cave troll railway system XD
08:20<V453000>redstone ftw
08:21<andythenorth>btw
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>i've not done a lot with redstone yet, just a "go" and "change direction" button for the rail line
08:21<andythenorth>I think you OpenTTD guys should be seriously worried
08:21<andythenorth>minecraft has a chance of becoming popular
08:21<andythenorth>it has underground building
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>*gasp*
08:21<V453000>XD
08:22<V453000>XD
08:22<V453000>XD
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08:22<andythenorthcraft>and it’s true 3D
08:22<andythenorthcraft>which is what players want now
08:22<V453000>can rotate views :0
08:22<andythenorthcraft>it might become truly popular
08:22<andythenorthcraft>if openttd was true 3d, and more modern
08:22<andythenorthcraft>it would have lots more players
08:23<andythenorthcraft>like WoW
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>i've never played WoW
08:23<andythenorthcraft>if you’d only listen to players’ suggestions, you could be a lot more successful and make a lot more money
08:24<andythenorthcraft>players know best
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08:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes, we'd have a fully simulated stock market, industry development, research, city development, everybody's favourite signal behaviour... by now
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>and those are only the "nice" suggestions
08:30<@planetmaker>we also would have undo-knobs, a self-playing game which copy&pastes its previous constructions everywhere ;)
08:31<@peter1138>Isn't copy & paste client side anyway?
08:32<andythenorthcraft>stock market was fun in railroad tycoon
08:32<andythenorthcraft>but that game was misnamed, at least by v3
08:32<andythenorthcraft>should have been called ‘Stock Market Manipulation Tycoon, with arbitrary side-game of building trains'
08:33<andythenorthcraft>the main tactics were pump and dump, corporate raiding, and short selling
08:36<@planetmaker>peter1138, not the current incarnation. But it has a delibarate server-side part
08:36<@planetmaker>the first versions were client-side only
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08:41<Eddi|zuHause>"speculation" is kind of pointless in a game where you can arbitarily go back to a previous point in time and change your estimation
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, stock market is the feature i hate the most in RRT
08:41<andythenorthcraft>I think we call that “cheating” :D
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>it's like in CIV where you attack someone repeatedly until you win
08:43<Pikka>save scumming is what we call that. :P
08:43<andythenorthcraft>how else do you play Doom?
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08:56<Eddi|zuHause>it's a lot trickier to do in Civ4 or 5 with saved random seed
08:59<@planetmaker>but also there... just attack in a different order :)
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but even then you run into the trouble that the loading times are orders of magnitude higher than in civ 1 or 2
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09:18<andythenorthcraft>just managed to drive through the scenery in Euro Truck Simulator
09:18<andythenorthcraft>a lovely blue sky
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11:07<argoneus>wow
11:07<argoneus>I emailed the teacher about one of the exercises from the exam I failed, explained to him how I meant my solution
11:07<argoneus>and he gave me 2 points out of 3 for that exercise for "using the wrong definition"
11:07<argoneus>so now I have 16 and all is well
11:08<argoneus>based
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11:13<lastmikoi>so, 14 was wrong and 16 is well ?
11:14<andythenorth>hmm
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11:14<andythenorth>so much to minecraft
11:14*andythenorth is late to that party
11:14<argoneus>lastmikoi: yes
11:14<argoneus>you need 15+ to pass
11:14<andythenorth>in my degree
11:14<lastmikoi>...
11:14<andythenorth>the boundaries are steps of 10
11:14<andythenorth>so 70/100 was first
11:14<andythenorth>but 69 is rounded up to 70, for benefit of doubt
11:15<andythenorth>and 68 is rounded up to 69
11:15<andythenorth>and 67.5 is rounded up to 68
11:15<andythenorth>very handy :P
11:15<lastmikoi>argoneus: that feels wrong, but hey.
11:15<argoneus>lastmikoi: why is it wrong
11:16<lastmikoi>Well, the exam should be 50% harder, in order to use 10/20 as a pass-mark
11:16<argoneus>it's not passing the course
11:16<argoneus>it's just a midterm
11:16<argoneus>which you have to pass either way
11:16<lastmikoi>mhh, I see
11:18<lastmikoi>Being french, I'm more accustomed to see 10/20 as a pass-mark; But this system seems to get worse once in higher degrees, i.e. they tell you that you pass without problem but once you actually seek opportunities they only accept >15/20
11:18<lastmikoi>(One of my friends has had to move to Canada in order to finish his PhD because of this very phenomenon)
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12:05<andythenorth>hmm
12:05<andythenorth>the total lack of forum comments on Iron Horse is a good thing, right?
12:12<frosch123>i wonder when fs catches up with forums on silly posts
12:15<@planetmaker>6171?
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12:25<@Alberth>he, yeti added a lot of new strings
12:31<V453000>did. :)
12:31<andythenorth>6171 is interesting
12:31<andythenorth>I am shocked that the pathfinder requires computation
12:32<andythenorth>in fact I’m dismayed
12:32<frosch123>it's not the pathfinder, but the signal in the depot
12:37<Marshy>Andy, nobody has any complaints :)
12:37<Marshy>Me included, great set
12:38<MTsPony>:)
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13:19<andythenorth>hmm
13:19<andythenorth>so much discussion on max loan :P
13:22<@Alberth>they needed several pages before concluding the economic model is broken :)
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13:57<andythenorth>there’s a model?
13:57<andythenorth>I dunno
13:57<andythenorth>words are funny
13:57<andythenorth>but I always think of a model as being something constructed intentionally, as a representation of something
13:57<andythenorth>rather than by accident :P
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14:01<@Alberth>:)
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14:14<Eddi|zuHause>"The swiss office where telecommunication surveillance requests are handled was decorated with a GDR flag"
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14:15<@planetmaker>well. And the bridges to Germany were all fitted with TNT in the foundations :)
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>i've said this before, that's not surprising at all
14:16<argoneus>also the slaves making german tanks
14:17<argoneus>broke the tanks on purpose
14:17<argoneus>so they would break down easily
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>well, in the beginning of the war, the tanks had way too high quality
14:18<@planetmaker>'too high quality'?
14:18<frosch123>yeah, they got stolen all the time
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>as in: there's no point in making a tank that lasts a year, when it gets shot down after a few days
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>rather than make 1 tank that lasts 100 days, make 100 tanks that last 1 day
14:21<andythenorth>I am starting to think that is the correct approach to newgrfs also
14:21<NGC3982>Why is there no point in making a tank that lasts a year?
14:21<NGC3982>If i did not loose the explanation in the context somehwere.
14:21<andythenorth>boom
14:21<andythenorth>then no more tank
14:22<andythenorth>waste of resources
14:22<@planetmaker>:)
14:23<FLHerne>They had that with V2s, too
14:23-!-Hazzard [~Hazzard@207.163.165.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:23<FLHerne>And the early jets
14:24<FLHerne>Better than anything else individually, but cost too much to produce in useful numbers
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14:25<Wolf01>hello
14:25<Wolf01>cat found, is in the box
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14:35<@Alberth>hi hi
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14:37<andythenorth>cat search concluded
14:39<V453000>results?
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>miau.
14:41-!-Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>"Mienz und Maunz die beiden Katzen/erhoben drohend ihre Tatzen/miau mio, miau mio/der Vater hat's verboten!"
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>http://germanstories.vcu.edu/struwwel/pauline_dual.html
14:48<andythenorth>“I need a charting library that includes IE 7 and IE 8 support"
14:48<andythenorth>is a very sad problem to have
14:49<frosch123>can i have ie6 support?
14:49<andythenorth>no
14:49<andythenorth>unless it comes for free with VML :P
14:50<@planetmaker>XML? :P
14:50<Wolf01>I'm sorry about that, IE6-7-8 is a bad disease
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>is the next one also called IE 10?
14:51<Wolf01>I don't think so, they are catching up quickly
14:51<Wolf01>at least on standards
14:52<andythenorth>meh, can’t use a python svg library server side :(
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14:54<frosch123>they certainly cannot keep up with ff and ch version numbers
14:54<frosch123>though i think they slowed down
14:56<andythenorth>hmm
14:56<andythenorth>maybe raphael.js
14:57<andythenorth>http://raphaeljs.com/analytics.html
14:58<andythenorth>hmm IE 7 is so fun to use :P
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15:02<andythenorth>hmm
15:02<andythenorth>well
15:03<andythenorth>svg newgrfs? o_O
15:04<@Alberth>easy to make several zooms
15:04<@planetmaker>andythenorth, would be no issue to use with nmlc
15:05<@planetmaker>or I assume it would work
15:05<andythenorth>I have no fricking idea how svg works yet :)
15:05<andythenorth>but eh
15:05<andythenorth>I just made a branch to learn, nothing to do with ottd though :)
15:07<@Alberth>just a set of drawing primitives with coordinates, stacked in an xml tree
15:07<@Alberth>where the big fun is that you can change the tree to change the drawing :p
15:08<andythenorth>presumably it can be rasterised to a bitmap too
15:08<andythenorth>trivially
15:08<@Alberth>not really trivially
15:09<@Alberth>at least we have a lot of trouble to make an animation out of it :)
15:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27063 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-11-18 20:12:42 UTC)
15:12<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6172]: Some lists did not use natural string sorting.
15:20<@Alberth>ugh, still glitchy graphics :(
15:27<andythenorth>hmm, all plotting libaries look about the same :P
15:27<andythenorth>nothing has changed since 1987
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15:32<@Alberth>machines got a bit faster
15:32<@Alberth>we got more colours
15:32<@Alberth>that's it mostly :p
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15:34<@planetmaker>:D
15:34<@planetmaker>we got renders since then :P
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15:36<frosch123>i think povray 1 is about 1987 :)
15:36<frosch123>hmm, though i think it was named differently
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15:55<FLHerne>andythenorth: Raphaeljs is pretty neat
15:56<andythenorth>looks it
15:56<andythenorth>even prints from IE 7
16:04<FLHerne>I was doing some very nasty things with it and wkhtmltopdf to create PDFs with diagrams :P
16:04<FLHerne>I'm sure there are saner ways to do that, but the html version was useful too
16:05<andythenorth>‘saner'
16:05<andythenorth>all PDF is bonkers
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16:06<FLHerne>True, but people like the pesky things for some reason
16:06<andythenorth>yes
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16:06<andythenorth>but they’d like to edit them
16:06<andythenorth>a bit like a word doc...
16:07<FLHerne>At least they're more reliably useful than those RTF things people keep sending me
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16:08<FLHerne>Word docs, or even odt, are frustratingly unreliable formatting-wise though
16:08<FLHerne>At least (valid) PDFs tend to look the same whoever you send them to
16:10<@planetmaker>or not. If they assume existence of certain fonts or whatever
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>PDFs i either create from latex or by "printing" a document
16:12<frosch123>i only send documents as png image
16:13<@planetmaker>:)
16:13<@planetmaker>well, pdf usually is fine enough
16:13<andythenorth>I print them out
16:13<andythenorth>and scan them to powerpoint
16:13<andythenorth>then fax them
16:14<@planetmaker>;)
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>fax is cool. if it's the right tool for the german internet ministers, it's right for everyone
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17:25<Wolf01>'night
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17:25<andythenorth>bed
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18:21<Quatroking>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gywLHouAUTQ
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---Logclosed Wed Nov 19 00:00:04 2014