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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-11-24

---Logopened Mon Nov 24 00:00:11 2014
00:10<Flygon> Is this a valid feature request for OpenTTD?
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03:17<horazont>whom do I have to ask if I want to be added here <>? (or rather, my software project)
03:23<Xaroth|Work>anybody can edit the wiki
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03:24<Xaroth|Work>having something that's 'workable' would probably be the requirement for other people to not remove it at some later point I'd say
03:25<horazont>oh okay, so I just need an account
03:26<horazont>well, it does work, I’m basing an XMPP client on it. the frame project is to create an XMPP <-> OpenTTD admin gateway bot
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05:51<Eddi|zuHause>moi aussi
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06:58<V453000>hmm, creating 1+2+2+2+1 articulated wagon has quite a downside in that you have to always drag the vehicle for the first 1/8 part when moving it inside depot :/
07:01<@planetmaker>I already asked, but I didn't quite understand the reasoning or forgot parts of it: why do the wagons of 4/8 and 8/8 need to be articulated at all?
07:02<@planetmaker>what about a short and a long version, just as two different vehicles?
07:02<@planetmaker>then it's easy to autoreplace between those
07:05<V453000>cause e.g. chameleon only allows short wagons and e.g. normal monorail only long ones
07:05<V453000>easy yes, intuitive no
07:06<V453000>but it is one of the options I considered yeah
07:07<V453000>it would make sense for openttd to drag the whole consist while pulling just one of the vehicles though :P
07:07<V453000>like doubleheads and articulations :P
07:07<@planetmaker>just allow both length on all engines
07:07<@planetmaker>a slug with long wagons then just is an old slug which cannot bend as nicely anymore :P
07:07<V453000>that would probably cause quite a mess
07:08<@planetmaker>mess? in what way?
07:08<V453000>well e.g. slug doesnt have any long wagon sprites
07:08<@planetmaker>ah, they have specific sprites for the wagons? hm
07:08<@planetmaker>then not :)
07:10<V453000>somewhat of an option would be to have 4+4 and let the 8/8 engines just bend a bit sooner/later
07:11<V453000>I will have to see how poor that looks :D
07:11<V453000>actually that sounds like the only option if I want to have the articulated depot-dragging not completely borken
07:12<V453000>hm guess tunnels and hills will suck the most
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: you can have a long sprite in the depot, then the long sprite will be dragged around
07:13<V453000>true that!
07:13<V453000>still got to click the first unit of the consist though
07:13<V453000>which in case of 1/8 is probably a bit ass
07:14<V453000>can something be done about that on openttd side? I always found it annoying to just accidentally click the wrong unit of the consist tbh
07:14<V453000>if it is an articulated vehicle, why not allow it to move when dragged by any part?
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07:40<@peter1138>2cc Bus Set, huh
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08:27<George>How to set value to PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_ELECTRIC to 5600 (default 4800)?
08:28<George>this page says only how to Double it
08:31<@planetmaker>generally, NewGRF can only work with powers of two on base costs
08:31<@planetmaker>so you can keep it, double it, half it, quadruple it, etc
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08:33<George>bad :(
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09:18<Eddi|zuHause>a lot of problems with costs would be solved if it were extended from byte to word or dword
09:21<@peter1138>So many problems, so many fixes, so little contributions.
09:27<V453000>xcept making fuckload of newgrfs :P
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is that extending specs is not something a lonely and bored contributor can do
09:27<@peter1138>Why not?
09:28<@peter1138>Only problem I see is that NewGRF authors get confused by code because they're graphics people really.
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>you either get lost in updating the dozen tools, or with commitee discussions on how it could be made better
09:29<V453000>kind of a big problem peter1138 :P
09:30<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, that would be simple. Just adding a new dword cost property for each feature
09:30<@planetmaker>and using that, if defined, otherwise the old
09:30<@planetmaker>like RV speed
09:30<@planetmaker>or whatever it was
09:30<@planetmaker>or like introduction date
09:32<@peter1138>Feature request: Port to SDL2.
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>why did nobody think of that before?
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09:58<George>What is the right way to check in cost/runing_cost CB if the vehicle is build or not (purchase window)?
09:58<George>Providing purchase_cost_factor for every veh does not seem to be nice solution
10:03<@planetmaker>peter1138, port to SDL2 would make the android port significantly smaller :)
10:03<@planetmaker>but I recall LordAro :P
10:05<@planetmaker>George, there's a vehicle property for that. and there's the purchase_running_cost_factor callback
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10:54<@planetmaker>interesting nickname, one has to say
10:54<dreck>heh thanks
10:55<@planetmaker>it translates to 'scum' :P
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10:55<@planetmaker>(or 'dirt' - depends on context)
10:56<Xaroth|Work>or 'your parents really didn't want you' :P
10:56<dreck>well different languages have different meanings so I can't say more :)
10:57<dreck>especially a car named Nova which in one particular country was believed to mean "bad luck" which not surprisingly matched its poor sales there
10:57<Jinassi>same with Pinto
10:58<@planetmaker>or pajero and vento
10:59<Jinassi>Yugo? lol
10:59<Xaroth|Work>or 'kok' .. a semi-common dutch surname which sounds an awful lot like 'cock'.
10:59<dreck>jinassi what did 'pinto' mean?
10:59<Xaroth|Work>especially when your first name is then 'dick' ...
10:59<Jinassi>similar car to Chevy Nova, only made by Ford
10:59<dreck>no I mean..what did that word mean
10:59<Jinassi>dunno what it meant
11:03<dreck>anyway I'm just wondering..the action7 effects everything so if it was scripted for 1960 road sprite update then it wouldn't matter if the road had already been laid down in <1959 it would gain the new sprites immedately?
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11:10<@planetmaker>dreck, there's only one road sprite possible. Action7/9 are static and only evaluated at grf load time.
11:10<@Alberth>hi hi
11:11<@planetmaker>and if you query the current time in an action7/9, it will always evaluate to the same, for multiplayer purposes, ignoring the other choices
11:11<@planetmaker>hi hi :)
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11:12<dreck>hm guess maybe I'll see if I couldn't ask pikka or someone then
11:12<dreck>thanks anyway
11:13<@planetmaker>sorry, dreck, NewGRFs can't work around that (yet). It would need real road types similar to railway tracktypes. At least to some degree
11:15<dreck>planetmaker so how is it that a few townsets have different roads in different generations? like I said I might just have to ask the grf owners :-s
11:15<@peter1138>You have to reload the game to make the change work.
11:15<@peter1138>This doesn't work in multiplayer.
11:16<@peter1138>They're not hiding a secret from you.
11:16<V453000>it does if you reload the savegame on server :P
11:17<@peter1138>V453000, no, it uses the game starting year.
11:18<V453000>ttrs and north american roads always did work with reloading ... perhaps I re-saved it through singleplayer though
11:18<V453000>which still shouldnt change starting year I think
11:18<@peter1138>Probably it used to "work."
11:19<V453000>well north american roads are probably gone for good and ttrs isnt really too great for pre-1930 starts anyway
11:20<V453000>so "meh"
11:21<@peter1138>That's why we're waiting on your unrealistic 32bpp 4x town and road set...
11:21<Marshy>What's a good pre-1930s townset anyway?
11:23<@peter1138>TaI is the only good one.
11:26<Jinassi>uk set is good too, but after a while it starts spewing churches out, like it's spanish inquzition and they take 4 tiles and all your relations to bomb 1
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11:30<dreck>heh..too many churches = where are the bedrooms anymore? :)
11:31<George>planetmaker: how a property can check something??
11:33<George>I know about purchse_cost_factor and purchase_running_cost factor. My question was how to check if the vehicle already built in the cost_factor and running_cost_factor CBs
11:33<Marshy>I didn't do well with TaL, I just got a map full of colourful tiles, unsure if I was using the correct version or not
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11:34<dreck>george are you the same george who does LV rvsets?
11:34<George>dreck: Yes, ECS, xUSSR train set
11:35<dreck>ah..used to like LV3 before but now don't have it so much anymore due to sprite limit and other newer grfs altogether tho
11:35<dreck>as for ecs...well..I'll refrain from commenting
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11:45<Eddi|zuHause>George: i don't know if you can check for purchase menu outside of the action3, but you can STORE_TEMP some stuff in the entry point for the callback, and then load that later in the chain
11:47<George>TRAINS do not have REGISTERs AFAIR
11:48<@planetmaker>but temp storage
11:48<@planetmaker>so yes, eddi's idea might work
11:49<@planetmaker>dreck, "sprite limit"? You mean you have so many newgrfs that you run out of place for sprites? That'd be curious
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>George: temporary storage is valid for the duration of the callback
11:56<@peter1138>sprite limit, heh
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12:04<dreck>lunchtime now so me going
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12:09<@peter1138>It's possible he's still playing TTDPatch?
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12:18<@planetmaker>peter1138, no. He played on an openttd server
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12:49<argoneus>I lost it at the spade
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14:09<Wolf01>hi hi
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14:24<andythenorth>cat is busy
14:32<andythenorth>obsessing over small details :P
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14:54<Wolf01> bad feature, sleeping trucks
14:57<andythenorth>weather disasters in game? o_O
14:59<SpComb>that looks like a windy plain
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16:46<Eddi|zuHause>after all these years i still have no clue what the weather in SC2000 actually did
16:50<frosch123>most likely nothing
16:51<frosch123>stuff that changes often averages out to nothing
16:51<frosch123>that's why smooth economy in ottd is so silly
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16:51<frosch123>it changes the production of every industry every month
16:52<frosch123>if it would instead give the production a linear slope it would be easier to play with
16:52<frosch123>and on averag eit would be the same anyway
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17:22<andythenorth_>frosch123: one day a better industry economy will get figured out :p
17:22<andythenorth_>No newgrf has managed it
17:22<andythenorth_>PBI not, ECS not, FIRS not
17:23<andythenorth_>FIRS approach to primaries is too brutal, no finesse
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17:40<frosch123>clearly firs needs plugin support
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17:41<frosch123>just load a new economy via xml into the grf
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17:47<supermop>lots of new sprites while i was asleep it seems
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 25 00:00:12 2014