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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-11-25

---Logopened Tue Nov 25 00:00:12 2014
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01:32<supermop>whats going on
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01:34<Supercheese>Thanksgiving vacation in the US
01:36<supermop>i get to skip that here
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07:01<supermop>cant decide what country my etsy store should be in
07:01<supermop>or if there is a better alternative
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>i agree with V453000 (and when does that ever happen)
07:06<V453000>I win
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07:09<andythenorth>also pikka
07:09<andythenorth>I keep forgetting to add these to Road Hog
07:12<Pikka>what about iron hog
07:15<andythenorth>what is it?
07:15<andythenorth>sounds good
07:16<Pikka>if it's 32bpp4ez
07:16<andythenorth>you and your big pixels
07:17<Pikka>also which?
07:17<andythenorth>this will be a right bastard to draw in pixels
07:17<V453000>big pixels are the future
07:18<Pikka>tres erf
07:18<Pikka>erf sounds like a made-up name
07:18<andythenorth>it was
07:19<andythenorth>renderised powder tanker?
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>erf is the integral of the bell curve
07:19<Pikka>such lifted axles, also
07:20<Pikka>renderised means "correct" dimensions though
07:20<andythenorth>could code those lifted axles
07:20<andythenorth>at 1x EZ, definitely worth it
07:20<Pikka>just make a new 3dtt
07:20<Pikka>call it something clever like drain fewer
07:20<andythenorth>we should
07:20<andythenorth>but I won’t
07:23<Pikka>why not
07:23<Pikka>not enough pixels in the day?
07:23<Pikka>In my opinion, it is not a good feature to have too much refit options, because use of autorefit become unpredictable.
07:24<andythenorth>I see
07:25<andythenorth>I shall definitely go ahead and break the set
07:26<andythenorth>why doesn’t it expire?
07:26<andythenorth>I never bother with expire, so I didn’t test it
07:26<andythenorth>probably I set ‘never expires'
07:26<Pikka>seems likely
07:26<andythenorth>oh because otherwise it’s broken
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09:23<argoneus>peter1138: where did you find this
09:24<argoneus>someone linked it to me like 2 hours ago
09:24<argoneus>are you guys friends or what
09:32<@peter1138>Oh sorry.
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09:34<V453000>BURN HIM ALIVE
09:35<@peter1138>Yeah, __ln__ already linked it. I'm gonna perish.
09:36<argoneus>I meant
09:36<argoneus>someone in an unrelated channel
09:36<argoneus>on an unrelated server
09:36<argoneus>in an unrelated discussion
09:36<argoneus>mildly interesting
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09:40<Eddi|zuHause>that's what virality is about
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>besides, it was already posted here earlier
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11:21<DDR>Good morning, #openttd. :)
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11:50<Nijske>dutch people here ?
11:51<Jinassi>anyone seen kamnet lately?
11:51<Nijske>i need som help but my english is not so good
11:51<@Alberth>Jinassi: I have never seen him here, as far as I can remember
11:51<Nijske>i am new on open ttd
11:52<Jinassi>Alberth, thank you, he's harder to find than a midget hooker
11:52<@Alberth>Nijske: just try, we'll ask for clarification if things are not clear
11:52<Nijske>ok thanks
11:52<@Alberth>Jinassi: PM on tt-forums?
11:52<Nijske>i wont new industrie on my map
11:52<Nijske>wat can i download best ?
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11:53<Nijske>in newGRF
11:53<@Alberth>there are 3 choices
11:54<@Alberth>1. ECS, quite old, has stock piling, factories have an upper limit on what they accept
11:54<@Alberth>2. FIRS, has supplies to increase production
11:54<@Alberth>3. YETI, has workers, haven't played with it recently
11:55<Nijske>ow ok
11:55<Nijske>3 is the best then ?
11:55<@Alberth>different people have different ideas on "best"
11:56<Nijske>ow ok
11:56<Nijske>and for ech of tem have you trains ?
11:56<@Alberth>best solution is to try all of them for a few games, and see how you like them
11:56<Jinassi>Probeer ze en zie welke je wilt. Elk heeft een aantal instellingen om mee te spelen ook.
11:57<@Alberth>YETI is closely connected to the NUTS trainset
11:57<Nijske>YETI is 1 download i see
11:57<@Alberth>a BIG one :D
11:57<@planetmaker>there generally is no 'best'. They're just different and cater different ways to play the game
11:57<Nijske>ow ok
11:57<@Alberth>but you need a train newgrf if you play with industry sets
11:57<@planetmaker>you'll need to use train (and vehicle) sets in order to transport their cargos
11:58<Nijske>but 1 download is good for yeti ?
11:58<@Alberth>almost any modern vehicle set will do
11:58<@planetmaker>all three sets can be obtained via ingame content download. Those are good, yes.
11:58<@planetmaker>As can train and road vehicle sets
11:58<Nijske>yetieextendet towns&industry
11:59<@planetmaker>yes, that one. Can't exactly recommend one or the other trainset either... use what you like :)
11:59<@Alberth>if you like the standard trains, you can use the opengfx+trains
12:00<@Alberth>other nice sets are iron horse, or NUTS
12:00<Nijske>ow ok
12:00<@planetmaker>or pineapple trains
12:00<@Alberth>if you want ships, I can recommend squid
12:00<@planetmaker>and planes via av9.8
12:01<@planetmaker>and vehicles... egrvts, ogfx+rv. And always add heqs
12:01<Nijske>thanks fot the good help
12:01<@Alberth>you're welcome, if you have problems or questions, just drop in :)
12:02<@planetmaker>also, our forums at has many suggestions on newgrfs. As many views on the topic as it has members ;)
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12:04<Nijske>I understand english but not good typing
12:06<@Alberth>we understand what you're saying, that's what counts
12:07<Nijske>you are currently playing the game?
12:09<@Alberth>no, I am cooking dinner
12:09<@Alberth>and I don't play the game very often
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12:27<Nijske>hmm i upload anther
12:27<Nijske>but i forgot number 2
12:29<Jinassi>1st ecs, 2nd firs, 3rd yeti
12:29<@Alberth>Nijske: ^^ is the log of the channel, you can read everything back
12:30<Jinassi>nifty addition
12:30<@Alberth>when you play FIRS, be sure to select a basic economy, eg basic temperate
12:32<Nijske>how do you mean?
12:33<@Alberth>after activating FIRS, go to its settings, and select a different economy, before starting a game
12:33<Nijske>ow ok
12:33<@Alberth>the standard setting is for "full firs" and that is a LOT of industries, you'll get lost completely
12:34<@Alberth>the basic economy is much smaller and easier to understand
12:34<Nijske>in the beginning it might be better just standard game play?
12:34<Nijske>so as the initial companies
12:35<@Alberth>indeed, you get lost very quickly if you don't know any industry
12:35<@Alberth>keep it simple at first
12:36<Nijske>got it a few years ago played
12:37<Nijske>find the firs look best
12:37<Nijske>Most companies also
12:38<@Alberth>if you don't change the economy, firs has a lot of industries indeed
12:39<@Alberth>don't forget to load a train newgrf as well, or you cannot transport the cargo
12:40<Nijske>what should I load then?
12:41<@Alberth>any train set will do, planet maker mentioned several of them
12:43<@Alberth>iron horse train set and termite track grf will probably work well, they are from the same author as firs
12:43<@Alberth>I haven't tried them yet
12:44<Nijske>ow ok
12:44<Nijske>i have load iron horde
12:45<Nijske>is that enough?
12:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27067 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2014-11-25 17:45:18 UTC)
12:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 1 changes by telk5093
12:45<Nijske>@dorpsgek dutch ? :D
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12:46<@Alberth>termite tracks belong with iron horse, you should load them too
12:46<@Alberth>and yes, dorpsgek is a dutch fool :p
12:47<Nijske>nice :D
12:47<@Alberth>or 'idiot', probably
12:47<Nijske>Have point 2 downloaded and then those two for trains
12:47<Xaroth|Work>village idiot
12:48<Nijske>then I start I suppose
12:48*Nijske slaps DorpsGek around a bit with a large fishbot
12:49<Nijske>I must get away speak to you soon
12:49<@Alberth>bye, and have fun playing :)
12:49<Nijske>thank you for the help
12:50<Xaroth|Work>Alberth: you still working on rct?
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12:55<@Alberth>Xaroth|Work: yep, and others
12:55<@Alberth>working on queuing of guests
12:56<@Alberth>last weekend, I got toilets to keep guests inside for a while
12:56<@Alberth>and reject them when it's full
12:56<@Alberth>so now I should teach queuing paths to queue :p
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13:39<Nijske>alberth ?
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13:40<@Alberth>what do you want to know?
13:40<Nijske>I uploading number 2
13:41<@Alberth>but in general, it's much more effective to just burst in with your question, and ask it in general, more people know more than one :)
13:41<Nijske>There you can also use the industry standard in?
13:42<@Alberth>what is "the industry standard" ?
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13:42<Nijske>the industry that you have when you have nothing uploads
13:43<@Alberth>oh, you want to have both the default industries and firs at the same time?
13:44<@Alberth>no that's not possible
13:44<@Alberth>so far, all industry newgrfs replace the default industries instead of adding to it
13:44<Nijske>I always start in the desert but if your number 2 download you can do anything you like water can retrieve only
13:45<Nijske>for any business you have nothing needed and there is too little money to earn something from the start: p
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13:46<@Alberth>a lot of people only play temperate climate, and not anything else
13:46<Nijske>ow ok
13:46<@Alberth>firs has an economy for tropical if I remember correctly
13:47<Nijske>ok thank you and sorry for disturbing
13:47<Nijske>I try that way
13:48<@Alberth>if you try "Heart of Darkness" (the bottom entry)
13:48<@Alberth>that should work in tropical climate
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13:48<@Alberth>but I don't know if it handles water, I never play for pax
13:48<@Alberth>ha, the expert!
13:48<Nijske>I do not understand
13:48<@Alberth>hi andy
13:49<@Alberth>Nijske has a problem with firs, can you help?
13:49<Nijske>tropical is not the desert? you can choose from four climates
13:49<@Alberth>tropical is the 3rd one
13:51<@Alberth>andythenorth: apparently firs doesn't have water supplies for tropical?
13:51<Nijske>but if for example you can start immediately make a train ride with water
13:51<andythenorth>FIRS doesn’t have water
13:51<andythenorth>it substitutes something else
13:51<andythenorth>dunno what
13:51<andythenorth>town window will tell
13:51<Nijske>but with that 2nd uploads have only factories where you need to make something for you can pick out something
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>i think it was goods
13:53<Nijske>goods ?
13:53<@Alberth>food and goods indeed
13:56<Nijske>I'm testing it out
13:57<@Alberth>if you click on the name of a town you get a window describing what it needs
14:01<Nijske>yes that I know but it's just something where factories produced when you make something so hard: D
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14:03<Nijske>have found it XD thanks for your help
14:04<@Alberth>as I said, you are completely lost with the industries first :)
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14:07<Nijske>maybe it is difficult to start with so immediately
14:08<Nijske>have the uploads are equally removed
14:08<@Alberth>it's normal to get lost, just like you are playing for the first time again
14:09<@Alberth>just take it easy, one step at a time
14:09<Nijske>is certainly well I play normal playstation: p
14:11<@Alberth>OpenTTD is a game that takes time to learn, especially if you add newgrf
14:12<Nijske>Certainly, that is why I will start as the beginning
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15:12<dreck>trying to find something from forum atm but thought I'll try ask here too..any of you know what openttd seem to be looking for when wanting a heightmap file?
15:13<frosch123>a greyscale png file
15:14<frosch123>though i think every png image works, and ottd converts it to greyscale
15:16<dreck>hmm not sure if its just some odd setting but what happens is I go to Save Heightmap .. then immedately go to Load Heightmap and its not even there even although its in the same working directory
15:16<dreck>wondering if its botching up something while saving it in first place
15:20<dreck>(like is there any particular gui or cli setting I could check?)
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15:43*andythenorth yak-shaving again
15:51<dreck>AHA frosch I found what the problem had been the whole time and I think its a silly one in a weird way...
15:52<dreck>somehow the heightmap appeared to use the Screenshot setting which is currently set to pcx .. and the dialog for heightmap save/load somehow can't deal with anothing that isn't png
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15:55<frosch123>yeah, it's on the list of settings to remove from the gui, so it cannot be messed up
15:55<andythenorth>something in my partial compile makes grfs that openttd can’t use
15:55<andythenorth>how interesting
15:55<andythenorth>or Eandythenorth
15:55<andythenorth>which is more plausible?
15:56<dreck>frosch whats weird is why Screenshot would have anything to do with Heightmap
15:57<dreck>the two should be separated for sure
15:57<andythenorth>because reasons :)
15:57<dreck>I temporately set it to png to make the heightmap function for now..will have to switch back to pcx when I'm done with the map creation
15:58<dreck>andythenorth if its supposed to be there then at least make the heightmap code accept non-png files :P
15:58<dreck>or separate it from Screenshot ;)
15:58<@Alberth>don't use pcx
16:00<dreck>Alberth tell that to the heightmap code
16:00<@Alberth>no need to, it already doesn't use anything else but png
16:01<dreck>so why did it try to save as pcx even although it couldn't understand that?
16:03<frosch123>why did you switch to pcx in the first place?
16:05<dreck>frosch where did openttd said it was using pcx for heightmap?
16:05<dreck>that'll answer your question
16:05<frosch123>no, why did you set pcx for screenshots?
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>why did we not remove pcx yet?
16:05<dreck>and again..what does screenshot have to do with heightmap?
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't seen a pcx in at least a decade
16:06<frosch123>that's not the point. ottd only supports pcx because noone removed it
16:06<frosch123>why are you using it?
16:06<dreck>eddi well its still in use by many editors
16:06<frosch123>are you on dos or something?
16:07<frosch123>i have a drawing program in dosbox
16:07<frosch123>something from 92, pcx was awesome
16:09<frosch123>dreck: still, the plan is to remove the pcx setting from the gui. so i wonder why anyone would activate it
16:09<dreck>because its much easier for me to use than going through some third party app to convert it over
16:10<frosch123>you are saying you use something that supports pcx, but not png? :o
16:11<dreck>it'll take png but not in as good colors
16:11<frosch123>err, they are both lossless
16:11<frosch123>there is no difference
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>i feel like i'm watching one of these comedies where two people are talking about two completely different things
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>and don't realize it
16:14<@planetmaker>hi hi
16:14<frosch123>hai pm :)
16:15<frosch123>oi, i wanted to ask pm something about post_build, but apparently pm already changed it :p
16:15<@planetmaker>lol, this pcx conversation is highly funny
16:16<@planetmaker>frosch123, yeah, I saw that you mentioned it. Thought I have a brief look
16:16<@planetmaker>the alternative build VM basically is not properly setup for py3. Thus I disabled it for nml... not used anyhow
16:17<@planetmaker>it was more challenging to install pillow for py3 on debian than I recall. Thus I postponed that
16:17<andythenorth>dreck: to shortcut
16:17<andythenorth>it’s only in pcx because reasons
16:17<andythenorth>it’s not particularly by design
16:18<@planetmaker>oh, and the other thing was that indeed the c module wasn't built for the version CF used. But that was just a minor addition, too
16:19<frosch123>yup, saw it
16:19<frosch123>i wanted to link you to hg and ask, but then wondered why the second ssh was commented out
16:19<frosch123>first i questioned my sanity from the other day, but then i checked for new commits :p
16:19<andythenorth>eh? my buy menu sprites are truncating
16:19*andythenorth mumble mumble
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16:36<@planetmaker>frosch123, can I document better how things work?
16:36<@planetmaker>I'm a bit uneasy if only I understand how things work :P
16:36<@planetmaker>and I didn't even manage to have ^Spike^ understand it either :P
16:36<frosch123>i wanted to document how to install mingw inside wine, but didn't find a place where to add it :p
16:38<@planetmaker> might be a place to link a new page to that topic
16:38<@planetmaker>or from the main help page
16:39<@planetmaker>alternatively always the openttd wiki could hold such knowledge, too
16:42<frosch123>well, if there would have been a single ssh in post_build (like it is now), i would probably have figured it out
16:42<frosch123>but that there were two surprised me, since i couldn't remember to see them in action
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16:53<dreck>andythenorth there any chance you could answer a quick question re a somewhat "annoyed" FIRS industry? :)
16:54<andythenorth>what’s it annoyed about?
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16:56<dreck>ah, just curious if its something specific I haven't thought of but is there any particular landscaping shape the Bulk Terminal requires?
16:56<andythenorth>it’s borked
16:56<dreck>I've been able to place the Port and Harbour but ... ehhh not this particular one
16:56<dreck>ah I should had thought to check the dev list too..not just forum...doh...
16:56*dreck looks
16:56<andythenorth>I thought I made a screenie recently
16:56<andythenorth>maybe not
16:57<andythenorth>anyway it only builds on SW-NE slopes afaict
16:57<andythenorth>and you need a shape like —\_______/
16:57<dreck>well there is "sorta" a screenshot in the docs/industry.html list but it doesn't really show the terrain underneath the building
16:58<andythenorth>it’s a bug
16:58<dreck> a bumpout shoreline? hmm let me try that and see if I figure it out
16:58<andythenorth>it’s annoying
16:58<dreck>oh oh I BUILT ONE! :->
16:59<dreck>I just had it bumped out by one tile long and two tiles wide .. and was able to build it now :)
16:59<dreck>cheers for the instruction above tho
17:01<dreck>at least its a lot easier than some of these strange Tourist buildings (I think it was a ecs thing? been awhile that I can't recall) which required a specific shape of hill to build onto
17:03<dreck>while you're here I just want to tell you one thing: I -love- HEQS
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17:03<dreck>I'll admit I've rarely used the "offroad" vehicles but even then I like the trucks and trams :)
17:05<andythenorth>dreck: you could screenshot your successful build and post it to FIRS thread :P
17:05<andythenorth>it keeps coming up
17:06<dreck>heh well...I could maybe make a screenshot of my map when I'm done creating it :)
17:07<dreck>the strange thing about FIRS is that the fishing ground reminds me of MB's original (or thats what I suspect) release of that a long time ago
17:08<andythenorth>there are reasons
17:08<andythenorth>for that too
17:08<dreck>he had beer too didn't he? :P
17:08<andythenorth>only so many ways to skin that cat
17:08*dreck gets drunk
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17:09<dreck>mind you I still use newstationsw once in a while even although I usually have the japan station loaded
17:21*andythenorth -> bed
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17:22<Wolf01>me too
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17:29<@planetmaker>dreck, for a NewGRF author not an entire map screenshot is interesting, but nice screenshots which show their stuff in action
17:29<@planetmaker>which definitely needs no waiting "till finished"
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17:33<Eddi|zuHause>i was never "finished" with a map...
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---Logclosed Wed Nov 26 00:00:14 2014