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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-11-26

---Logopened Wed Nov 26 00:00:14 2014
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02:34<V453000>is coffee a bad feature?
02:35<Supercheese>Coffee makes the world go round
02:37<V453000>sure but I had to add coffee sprites to nuts just cause andythesouthcaffeineaddict added it to FIRS
02:37<V453000>bad andy
02:39<andythenorth>industries are a BAD FEATURE
02:39<andythenorth>should remove them
02:39<andythenorth>just do classes of pax
02:40<andythenorth>illegal immigrant
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03:03<andythenorth>insurance salesmen
03:03<ccfreak2k>middle managers
03:13<andythenorth>should I detect when a truck is slowing down and show brake lights?
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04:00<V453000>it is quite a bit more dangerous when nmlc isnt screaming at you white errors with 32bpp XD
04:00<V453000>(just had a bunch of sprites 100% alpha :D)
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04:14<V453000>=D just tankers to go
04:18*argoneus pats V453000 on the head with a block signal
04:20*V453000 demonstrates his discontent by creating even more sprites
04:20*argoneus presses the Like button for each sprite
04:25<argoneus>everyone woke up at the same time
04:26<argoneus>it's like we're in space and just got out of hypersleep
04:26<argoneus>technically we are in space
04:27<Sheogorath>the real funny thing is: in Space they never need to wake up the captain... he is always there
04:27<supermop>i've been awake for hours!
04:27<argoneus>Sheogorath: not in Alien
04:27<argoneus>or red dwarf
04:27<argoneus>(no other shows about space are relevant)
04:28<Jinassi>at last i'm not the only one who loves red dwarf
04:29<Jinassi>eevrytime i mention that series i get: "Who's that?"
04:30<Sheogorath>the best thing in space shows/series is the sound in space...
04:30<Sheogorath>yes, I like thoose 1930 films xD
04:30<argoneus>but space isn't vacuum is it?
04:31<argoneus>I thought there were *some* particles
04:31<argoneus>of things
04:31<V453000>Jinassi: did you fuckers update to yeti 0.1.0 and nuts 0.7.5 yet? :P
04:32<Jinassi>V453000: UNknown
04:33<Jinassi>i'll do it now, as soon as i figure out how to update single grf's and not fuck up entire thing by messing with wonky citybuilder
04:33<@planetmaker>argoneus, yet you don't have sounds for knudsen numbers greater 1 ;)
04:35<argoneus>planetmaker: the wiki page for that number confuses me
04:35<argoneus>is it basically how "empty" an area is?
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04:36<@planetmaker>I probably should have phrased that differently: ... for cases where particles fly unpertubed for much longer than their own size
04:37<@planetmaker>so yes, in a way it's a measure of how empty something is
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04:40<@peter1138>"Windows found 144 updates."
04:40<@peter1138>Someone has not been doing their job...
04:40<@planetmaker>gotta love that message, don't you, peter1138 ?
04:40<@planetmaker>I wonder how many my VM will get next time I start it
04:43-!-Taede_ is now known as Taede
04:43<@peter1138>planetmaker, this is a production server. I'm pretty shocked.
04:44<@peter1138>Hmm, weird thing is it has installed updates this month.
04:44<Jinassi>were they critical or optional?
04:50<@peter1138>Windows Update doesn't work...
04:50<@peter1138>(Through IE)
04:50<@peter1138>So... I think it's fucked itself over.
04:50<Jinassi>what os?
04:50<@peter1138>End of life next year anyway...
04:52<Sheogorath>you really should update :D
04:52<Sheogorath>or switch to Linux...
04:53<@planetmaker>o_O on a production server that's... scary
04:53<@peter1138>planetmaker, it has updates.
04:53<@peter1138>So I think it's screwed itself, and just thinks it needs to install everything.
04:54<@planetmaker>he, better. But not nice either :)
04:54<@planetmaker>do that too often as an OS and people will start to disregard the "need to update" warnings
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04:57<@peter1138>I'm wrong. There were updates installed this month.
04:58<@peter1138>But none since 2009.
04:58<@peter1138>I'm going to kill this guy.
04:59<@peter1138>This is not one I administrate.
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05:08<Jinassi>any news on the openttd frontier that I can abuse? RSS is empty :(
05:10<@peter1138>YETI is being incorporated into the baseset.
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06:13<V453000>XD peter1138 ?
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06:23<argoneus>openttd is getting physx support
06:23<argoneus>smoke from steam trains is now gpu accelerated
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07:49<Quatroking>argoneus, heres a trailer of the new openttd with physx, gpu accelerated steam trains, mipmapping and ragdolls
07:50<argoneus>Quatroking: is that train fever?
07:50<argoneus>I'm at work and it'd crash my browser if I tried opening a video
07:50<Quatroking>it's thomas the train engine
07:51<V453000>XD ok
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07:54<@peter1138>Thomas the train engine?
07:55<V453000>looks legit to me
07:55<argoneus>V453000 the doom engine
07:55<@peter1138>You know it's Thomas the Tank Engine, right?
07:55<argoneus>and the sequel
07:55<argoneus>thomas the 88mm gun
07:55<@peter1138>Mmmh, must not buy 1TB SSD.
07:55<V453000>wat price?
07:56<argoneus>peter1138: get this
07:56<argoneus>V453000: about $600
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07:59<Quatroking>peter1138, dude here in NL it's literally called Thomas the Train
07:59<Quatroking>I don't know man
08:00<@peter1138>V453000, around £300.
08:00<V453000>thats good
08:00<@peter1138>So not $600, as that'd be sold for... well, £600 :p
08:00<V453000>I see
08:03<@peter1138>Hmm, pair of 1TB in RAID0?
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08:11<V453000>I actually bought a 2nd 256GB ssd a month back, then found out the first one works just fine and the problem was in the motherboard
08:11<V453000>sooo am considering that too
08:11<V453000>obviously 4 times smaller :P
08:12<argoneus>having a faulty motherboard is the most painful thing ever
08:12<argoneus>building a pc from scratch is easier and less messy than replacing a mobo
08:13<argoneus>also attaching heatsink to CPU is the most difficult part in building a PC :<
08:13<V453000>idk I sent it back to asus and they are replacing it with the same one :)
08:13<argoneus>since it's the only thing that can go really wrong
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08:17<argoneus>V453000: is there a CZC in your town?
08:17<argoneus>or do you have some local shops like tsbohemia/alfacomp
08:17<argoneus>or something shitty like alza
08:18<V453000>idk about alfacomp but the other three yes
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: what's so problematic about applying heatpaste and pulling down a lever?
08:37<argoneus>V453000: I already forgot where you were from :(
08:37<argoneus>(such is the life of a spoiled prague kid)
08:37<argoneus>Eddi|zuHause: well
08:37<argoneus>you need to try not to smear the paste down
08:38<argoneus>if you wiggle it too much (which I always do, because it takes force to force the heatsink in the correct place), it will make air bubbles
08:38<argoneus>V453000: is it liberec
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: my computer came with a syringe thingie to apply heatpaste
08:40<argoneus>Eddi|zuHause: yeah
08:40<argoneus>you apply the paste on the cpu
08:40<argoneus>and then need to align the heatsink on it perfectly
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08:40<argoneus>without wiggling it when it's in place
08:40<argoneus>which is tricky
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i'm not doing it often enough
08:41<argoneus>the last time I built a computer
08:42<argoneus>I had to reapply it twice
08:42<argoneus>and it was fuck annoying
08:42<argoneus>especially since then your entire room smells like alcohol
09:04<@peter1138>I've... never had to concern myself with that...
09:04<@peter1138>Plonk CPU in, plonk heatsink on, clamp, done.
09:05<@peter1138>The preapplied compound does the job, even it's not the best.
09:10<argoneus>peter1138: yeah
09:10<argoneus>preapplied is fine
09:10<argoneus>because it's kinda set in already
09:10<argoneus>but if you need to replacee it
09:10<argoneus>it's painful
09:19<@peter1138>Maybe I need to reapply mine... it's kinda warm.
09:19<@peter1138>Anyway, the worst part wasn't the paste, it was the clips.
09:19<@peter1138>At least on those bloody Athlons.
09:20<@peter1138>The clips were so tight they sometimes broke off the socket.
09:20<@peter1138>And then there was a design that caused the motherboard to bend...
09:29<argoneus>if it was just put on heatsink and click in
09:29<argoneus>it'd be fine
09:29<argoneus>but in my case (i5 4670k)
09:29<argoneus>I had to screw a special plate to my mobo's backside
09:29<@peter1138>Slot CPUs...
09:29<argoneus>then put heatsink on really tight
09:29<argoneus>and screw in 4 screws in each corner
09:30<argoneus>while holding the heatsink in place.
09:30<@peter1138>I'd prefer a screw-on method, to be honest.
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09:31<argoneus>peter1138: you wouldn't
09:31<argoneus>look at this picture
09:31<argoneus>first you put in the cpu
09:32<argoneus>then apply paste on top of it
09:32<argoneus>then put heatsink on top, so far so good
09:32<argoneus>then you need to take the metal brace, and pull it through UNDER THE HEATSINK
09:32<argoneus>and then you need to screw all the 4 screws with one hand
09:32<argoneus>because you need to hold the heatsink in place the whole time
09:32<argoneus>it took me like 3 tries and I had someone help me hold the heatsink
09:32<@peter1138>I'd prefer a screw-on method without a sucky design, to be honest.
09:33<argoneus>well, it has to be like this
09:33<argoneus>the heatsink is heavy and produces a lot of force
09:33<@peter1138>For that particular design, yes.
09:33<argoneus>without this backplate security
09:33<argoneus>it'd snap the mobo in half
09:33<argoneus>but it was annoying as hell to do
09:33<@peter1138>At one point the backplates were part of the board.
09:34<argoneus>they were
09:34<argoneus>for the stock heatsink and stock fan
09:34<argoneus>but this is an aftermarket fan
09:34<argoneus>which has its own
09:34<@peter1138>Or vice-versa. I remember having a board that needed a backplate but didn't include them, and all the heatsinks made didn't come with one either. Confused.
09:34<argoneus>not all heatsinks need one
09:35<argoneus>it depends how heavy they are
09:35<argoneus>and how large
09:35<argoneus>this thing is like 140 cm
09:35<@Belugas>nitrogen cooling
09:35<argoneus>this heatsink is twice as large as the stock one
09:36<argoneus>and it took a lot of force to secure it to the backplate
09:36<argoneus>but now it's an immovable rock
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember having to deal with a backplate
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>also, the AMD way of holding the heatsink seems easier than the Intel method
09:42<argoneus>I had an AMD
09:42<argoneus>I just put the heatsink on the cpu
09:43<argoneus>clasped two things in something
09:43<argoneus>and then turned a handle
09:43<@peter1138>AMD should just weld the heatsink onto the CPU, they get so hot...
09:43<argoneus>AMD is usually cold
09:43<argoneus>my i5 reaches 90C during stress testing
09:43<argoneus>with an aftermarket cooler
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09:48<Eddi|zuHause>i toned the fans way down because it's so cool
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09:49<@peter1138>Keep thinking about getting an i7 but... cost.
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09:55<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: is that not a phrase? "tone down"?
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10:57<argoneus>peter1138: i7 is overkill
10:57<argoneus>unless you want to render things
10:57<argoneus>or compile things
11:03<@peter1138>You don't know what I do with my PC, thanks.
11:05<argoneus>as I said
11:05<argoneus>unless you do something crazy
11:05<argoneus>your GPU will be the bottleneck
11:05<argoneus>and yeah I don't, that's why I gave suggestions
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11:05<argoneus>thought you didn't know, since you said that AMDs get hot
11:07<@peter1138>Well, okay, I was referring to the crazy TDP of the high-end AMDs.
11:08<argoneus>but an i7 has a larger TDP than a FX
11:09<argoneus>actually, no
11:09<argoneus>i7 today has a bit less
11:10<@peter1138>220W TDP ;p
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11:10<argoneus>that's an extreme though
11:11<argoneus>today's i7 is leagues ahead of FX though
11:11<argoneus>and I stand by my word that it's overkill :<
11:14<@peter1138>Have you ever tried playing Arma3? :Lp
11:15<argoneus>works just fine on my cpu
11:15<@peter1138>Cool. It sucks on my quad core.
11:15<argoneus>which quad core is that
11:16<@peter1138>Core 2 Quad, Q6600.
11:16<argoneus>I had a Phenom II quad core before this
11:16<argoneus>was unplayable
11:16<argoneus>now I have an i5 4670k ($200)
11:16<argoneus>and works fine
11:17<argoneus>and a high end cpu in terms of games
11:17<argoneus>is good only for things like flight simulators, emulators, and games like arma
11:17<argoneus>for most games the GPU is the bottleneck
11:18<argoneus>(since they can't even utilize all the cores)
11:18<@peter1138>Meh, x-plane smells
11:19<@peter1138>And FSX is ancient.
11:19<argoneus>FSX is ancient
11:19<argoneus>but still gives i7s a run for their money
11:19<argoneus>with pmdg planes
11:19<argoneus>because who cares about optimization, right
11:19<argoneus>project3d looks nice
11:19<@peter1138>Yeah but expensive.
11:20<@peter1138>Anyway, FSX isn't multicore, is it?
11:20<@peter1138>So i5 vs i7 isn't gonna be much different.
11:20<@peter1138>prepar3d may be though.
11:20<argoneus>I'm not sure
11:20<argoneus>I think it is
11:20<argoneus>but poorly
11:21<argoneus>like, it utilizes mostly one core
11:21<argoneus>and the rest doesn't do much
11:21<argoneus>peter1138: are you a flightsim fan?
11:21<argoneus>but yeah
11:21<@peter1138>Not hugely, but I do like to play FSX occasionally.
11:21<argoneus>if I wanted to play mostly arma/flightsim/etc
11:22<argoneus>then getting a top notch i7 is fine I guess
11:22<argoneus>I just dislike when people get i7 for the latest call of duty
11:22<@peter1138>(I do even own a copy of it, heh)
11:22<argoneus>and things like that
11:22<argoneus>because it's wasted money
11:22<@peter1138>Meh, I prefer Doom as my FPS :)
11:22<argoneus>I'm a counter striker myself :P
11:23<@peter1138>I have CS, but... meh
11:23<@peter1138>Not as fun.
11:23<argoneus>the key to having fun in CS
11:23<argoneus>is playing with a stable group of friends who don't rage and can play the game
11:23<argoneus>I'm a lucky member of such a group :D
11:24<argoneus>the community otherwise is cyka kurwa gringo :(
11:26<@peter1138>Flight sims seem to be stuck rendering a massive world that you can barely see...
11:28<argoneus>and if just that
11:28<argoneus>they don't utilize the gpu properly
11:28<argoneus>so it's your CPU stuck rendering all those things
11:28<argoneus>normally the more buildings there are on a map
11:28<argoneus>the more your GPU has to draw
11:28<argoneus>but in FSX you need a better CPU
11:29<argoneus>it's stupid
11:29<@peter1138>FSX predates some techniques to move load from CPU to GPU, though.
11:29<@peter1138>X-Plane and Prepar3d don't, but last time I tried X-Plane it was a slide-show.
11:29<@peter1138>flightgear's no better.
11:29<argoneus>I haven't really tried xplane
11:30<argoneus>it's hard to obtain a..... testing version
11:30<@peter1138>There's a demo of x-plane.
11:30<argoneus>and it doesn't have that many addon airplanes
11:30<argoneus>in FSX my game runs smoothly with the stock airplanes
11:30<argoneus>but load a pmdg 737-800
11:30<argoneus>and it's a slideshow
11:30<argoneus>well, not with my current cpu
11:30<argoneus>but I used to have 60+ on stock boeing
11:30<argoneus>and 10 with pmdg
11:31<@peter1138>I played with fshost with some guy, we were doing okay with single-prop planes.
11:31<@peter1138>Switched to turbo-prop and the framerate sucked for both of us.
11:31<@peter1138>(And he has an older i7)
11:31<argoneus>I can understand that then
11:31<argoneus>it's an expensive hobby
11:32<argoneus>and then there's people
11:32<argoneus>shelling thousands of dollars into a cockpit replica
11:32<@peter1138>Multiple screens and all that.
11:32<argoneus>not just screens
11:32<@peter1138>I have triple screen, but I daren't try it in FSX, because it sucks so bad.
11:32<argoneus>even all the displays, yoke, fmc, radio
11:32<@planetmaker>better spend those thousands of €€ into a real piloting license ;)
11:32<argoneus>everything hardware buttons
11:33<@peter1138>£50 for a box with a couple of switches on it
11:34<@peter1138>Actually since I switched to 3 monitors, nvidia surround works okay with FSX, but...
11:34<@peter1138>There's no separate rendering for the sides, so it's warped.
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11:40<@peter1138>And then I get pissed off with all those humblebundle games that assume all input devices are gamepads.
11:41<argoneus>which games do you mean?
11:43<@Alberth>OpenTTD of course
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11:44<@peter1138>Tons, mostly platformers.
11:53<frosch123>hmm, should nml check that 32bpp sprites have a transparent border on all edges?
11:53<@peter1138>Should they?
11:53<frosch123>somewhat as replacement for the pure white check?
11:53<@planetmaker>frosch123, do they need that?
11:53<argoneus>peter1138: super meat boy is fine on both kb/gp
11:54<argoneus>what else was there
11:54<argoneus>VVVVVV is fine, braid is fine
11:54<argoneus>don't remember any others
11:54<@peter1138>Oh, right, as a basic "maybe you got the coordinates wrong" diagnostic.
11:54<frosch123>no, i just mean it for checking that the author did not cut some pixels from the border by mistyping sprite coords
11:54<@peter1138>argoneus, i have a g27 wheel, it confuses these games.
11:54<V453000>the only thing I might do frosch123 is to make nmlc announce which sprites are 100% alpha because there it is clear that your sprite is loaded wrongly
11:54<frosch123>nml would then crop them
11:54<argoneus>ohhh, like that
11:54<argoneus>just disable wheel in control panel
11:54<argoneus>or something
11:55<@peter1138>they don't grok axes that aren't centred
11:57<@planetmaker>hm, so only warn for lines or columns which are 100% transparent, frosch123 ? That makes sense
11:57<frosch123>it would only apply for pure 32bpp sprites
11:57<frosch123>8bpp and 32bpp+mask have the pure-white thingie
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11:58<frosch123>otoh, if we get some nml decompiler, it would always trigger the messages
11:59<frosch123>since decoded sprites should be cropped :p
12:00<frosch123>one could also invert it: check the pixels right next to the sprite are for non-transparency
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12:02<@planetmaker>I wonder whether I should ask yexo whether he still has the nml de-compiler somewhere
12:02<frosch123>for what use?
12:02<frosch123>any set that is so old that it is written in nfo is worth rewriting anyway :p
12:03<@planetmaker>frosch123, didn't you just mention an nml de-compiler? ;)
12:03<frosch123>and considering that most nfo sets use a c-preprocessor you are likely better off porting the sprite templates manually
12:04<@planetmaker>the use might be limited, however not completely useless
12:04<frosch123>planetmaker: oh, don't worry, i am on coffee
12:04<@planetmaker>easier to port from nml to nml than from de-compiled nfo to nml
12:04<frosch123>how about nml generating a map file
12:04<@planetmaker>what kind of map file?
12:05<frosch123>which maps bytes in grf files to nml lines, so you if you single-step callbacks in ottd, you can directly link it to the source
12:05<frosch123>you know, integrated grf debugging into your nml ide :p
12:05<@planetmaker>he, that certainly would be nice to have :)
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12:07<frosch123>oh, and while we are about silly ideas :p the other day i wondered about grf-optimisation within ottd: when loading a newgrf in ottd split the a123 chains per callback and short-circuit all switches which are constant for each callback
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like a link-time-optimization?
12:08<@Alberth>JIT compilation :p
12:08<frosch123>yeah, but i wonder whether you would safe more than one switch per callback
12:09<frosch123>or whether it would implicitly add callback flags to all callbacks
12:09<@Alberth>if all is well, you'd not have constant switches, would you?
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>the one that decides whether to descend into a callback?
12:09<frosch123>or whether there would even be callbacks, which are time-consuming, which have no callback flag
12:09<@planetmaker>Alberth, I'm sure nearly every newgrf of some size has switches which return constant values
12:09<frosch123>or whether you should just add a better way to make callback fail, instead of chaining into a silly sprite chain
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: like folding out paths that result in failed callback?
12:10<@planetmaker>easier to make that than writing each vehicle/house/industry separately
12:10<@Alberth>planetmaker: yeah, but the same for every exit?
12:10<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: yes, but ofc. it is tricky for temporary and persistent storage :p
12:10<@planetmaker>Alberth, maybe sometimes
12:10<frosch123>random bits and that kind of junk :p
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: well, you can't optimize away those accesses, then
12:11<frosch123>so, well, all stuff for a proper coffein coma
12:11<@planetmaker>lol :)
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12:18<frosch123>sorry, just tried my new french press :)
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12:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27068 /trunk/src/lang (danish.txt tamil.txt) (2014-11-26 17:45:22 UTC)
12:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:45<@DorpsGek>danish - 28 changes by manframe
12:45<@DorpsGek>tamil - 52 changes by aswn
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12:47<andythenorth>Iron Horse nearly has 666 downloads
12:47*andythenorth hits refresh constantly
12:54<andythenorth>bored of hitting refresh no
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12:59<@Alberth>you will know when doom arrives :)
13:00<@peter1138>hmm, freedos... doom...
13:00<@peter1138>Ah, probably wouldn't get any sound :(
13:04<andythenorth>pleased with that
13:04<andythenorth>peter1138: PRBoom
13:05<andythenorth>oh maybe that’s OS X only
13:05<andythenorth>Linux version
13:06<@peter1138>I use chocolate.
13:06<@peter1138>For the vanillaness.
13:07<andythenorth>oic :)
13:07<andythenorth>I only play the first episode
13:07<andythenorth>no wads or mods
13:08<@peter1138>I've got the full original wads somewhere.
13:09<andythenorth>I could never be arsed to get into the later levels
13:20<@peter1138>Heh, 30% off X-Plane 10 on Steam.
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13:26<@peter1138>I think I'll skip it :p
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13:28<Jinassi>i suggest kerbal space program, very relaxing
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18:33<luaduck>So apparently OpenTTD has ASCII support?
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18:55<Eddi|zuHause>for strange values of "support"
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19:47<+glx>and it's not OpenTTD but SDL
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20:00<Supercheese>What on Earth is up with this window:
20:00<Supercheese>some patch, I presume?
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>i asked myself that same question
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>like a missing panel after GUI rearrangement
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20:03<Eddi|zuHause>today's earworm presented by Star Trek VIII: The First Contact
20:03<Supercheese>There aren't even dividers between the vehicles
20:03<Supercheese>bah, the whole thing is full of weird
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>there is also no raising edge at the left, but there is one on the top
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21:54<ginko>Anyone on here?! :D
21:55<ginko>Discovered a game called Prison Architect, it seems to be a complex simulation with an active modding community and it's on sale on Steam and costs 9,51€ instead of 27,99€ - it's still in Alpha but looks promising
21:55<ginko>Personally: I have not bought it, but will monitor it's development. Some other people in here might be interested (and it's available for Win / Mac / Linux)
21:56<ginko>Sale ends 2nd December (Autumn Sale)
21:57<ginko>I will repost this (if I don't forget) later during the day when more people will be online
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---Logclosed Thu Nov 27 00:00:15 2014