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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-12-09

---Logopened Tue Dec 09 00:00:33 2014
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06:37<V453000> done =D
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07:42<V453000>andythenorth: WTF
07:43<andythenorth>that can be very bad news
07:43<andythenorth>tyre explosions kill people fairly frequently
07:47<V453000>hm :)
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07:52<Jinassi>backstory: tyre was rethreaded poorly and steel wire wall collapsed/burst open. They ended up shooting it with a small caliber rifle to deflate it and change it
07:53<Jinassi>its cheaper to rethread these types of tyres in certain countries, then to buy a new one
07:54<V453000>Jinassi knowledge :)
07:54<juzza1>I like that solution - if it's broken, shoot it
07:54<Jinassi>Picture is not from CZ, it's from Africa
07:54<__ln__>there's a difference?
07:54<Jinassi>new tyre is probably cheaper in Europe, than to rethread it
07:55<Jinassi>would you go thee and deflate it by hand up close?
07:55<Jinassi>that thing could kill you if it would pop
07:56<andythenorth>long sharp stick
07:57<andythenorth>definitely not a bad idea in any way
07:57<Jinassi>where would the stick go once there is a sudden increase in pressure on the pointy side?
07:57<Jinassi>right back at you
07:57<andythenorth>nah, pressure flows around the pointy bit
07:57<andythenorth>and you could have a big non-pointy bit on your end
07:58<andythenorth>or place nails on the floor, then drive over them
07:58<andythenorth>or one of those devices the police use to shred car tyres (stinger?)
07:58<Jinassi>that would work
07:58<andythenorth>I think so
07:58<Jinassi>there are plates made especially for that
07:58<Jinassi>with hollow points
07:58<andythenorth>stuff going wrong
07:58<andythenorth>apart from the occasional actual sad death, that site is quite instructive
07:59<Jinassi>look at all those trucks wanting belly rubs lol
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08:18<@planetmaker>V453000, beware what you say. They brought you the frigging railroad in the first place :P
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08:19<V453000>HM. :D
08:20<V453000>new nutz menu :D
08:20<andythenorth>˚ ° < peter1138 which is correct? :P
08:21<andythenorth>° this one, right?
08:22<V453000>I cant even tell the difference
08:22<@Rubidium> <- (coal) mine subsidence ;)
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08:25<andythenorth>˚ is much smaller than ° in my font
08:25<Jinassi>V453000: Love how far your baby has come
08:25<V453000>aint done yet :D
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08:54<Jinassi>GG, this is a good example of an overengineered game. can't even grow a town in vanilla past 30k, but have no issues in citybuilder, throwing everything at it and going past 300k with ease.
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09:00<Xaroth|Work>Jinassi: you're always welcome to supply patches to improve it
09:01<andythenorth>overengineered? o_O
09:01<Jinassi>Not that, i am unsuccesful in vanilla. there must be something i am doing wrong
09:02<andythenorth>dunno, so many variables in your sandbox
09:02<andythenorth>town behaviour, map, newgrfs
09:02<Jinassi>not that, s1 is default vanilla behaviour
09:02<andythenorth>citybuilder probably adjusts town growth rate
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09:03<Jinassi>true, which makes it blatantly easy to throw more and more to it to make it grow, yet in vanilla it matters how much can you take from it.
09:03<Jinassi>if i'm not mistaken
09:04<andythenorth>afaik, the town growth (in non-desert, non-arctic towns) depends on (1) collecting from 5 stations within defined period (2) the base growth rate of the town (‘grow faster’ or not)
09:06<Jinassi>the % transported one was probably right
09:07<andythenorth>did you fund buildings?
09:07<andythenorth>also you have a lot of space occupied by stations :)
09:07<Jinassi>that could be it, hampers expansion
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09:10<andythenorth>Jinassi: in my last game, without trying I got a 19k town with only one pax station in the town
09:10<andythenorth>and only 5 trains servicing it
09:10<Jinassi>so placement is most important
09:10<andythenorth>also some industry pickups nearby
09:10<andythenorth>I was using TaI newgrf, dunno what Pikka has done to town growth in that grf
09:11<andythenorth>but the town grows every 2 days
09:11<andythenorth>I transported 159 of 3775 pax in last month
09:11<Jinassi>damn lol
09:11<andythenorth>and 44 of 634 mail
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>Jinassi: the original road layout is the worst for growing towns
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>Jinassi: a lot of places that could be used for houses ends up being occupied with pointless roads
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09:14<Jinassi>1st one was sustained by me, funded it like crazy, 2nd picture, only roads were placed for a few radiuses and then let alone to expand
09:15<Jinassi>both came to 30k population, altough i did not use so much space for stations in 2nd pic
09:15<Jinassi>yeah, original layout does doom it
09:16<Jinassi>am a stubborn man, lol, will burn a few more hours after restart to try gain
09:17<andythenorth>a proportion of towns (cities?) are randomly assigned to grow faster at game start AFAIK
09:17<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: player-side, original is the best actually, if you build your own roads :P
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: you can't make a 3x3 or 4x4 grid with original
09:22<V453000>you can if you delete the existing roads and build new?
09:22<V453000>but you still get the bonus for the setting, and you have 3x3 anyway
09:22<V453000>I personally hate any of the grids so I would build it more organic anyway, but still
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it will build roads into your 3x3 grid making it a 1x1 grid
09:23<V453000>assume town is not allowed to build roads
09:23<V453000>if you want to care about it, that setting should be obvious
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>hm, that may work
09:24<V453000>im not sure what bonus does it get
09:24<V453000>does it just renew buildings more often?
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09:24<Eddi|zuHause>well, i generally use "better", and only touch the roads if it bothers me, like two roads not connecting because they are 1 tile offset
09:25<V453000> ... there we looked into openttd code ... calculate how many times the town tries to build a house
09:25<V453000>so the bonus is quite substantial
09:27<V453000>this is cute
09:27<V453000>but yeah this
09:28<V453000>nyway, me off
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09:29<Jinassi>brb lost my jaw
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10:27<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: that's generally what happens when you value abstract game mechanics too much
10:30<V453000>it can be made to look nice when it isnt so uniform :)
10:34<Xaroth|Work>Jinassi: some of your bus stops are empty, I would suggest adding more bus stops and making sure there's almost always something waiting there
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10:48<andythenorth>does that affect growth significantly?
10:49<argoneus>in a thread "what is your favourite newgrf combination"
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>who would have ever expected that someone named V435000 would play with NUTS and YETI
10:57<Xaroth|Work>andythenorth: if you always have vehicles loading/unloading it stimulates town growth
10:57<Xaroth|Work>or at least it used to
10:57<Xaroth|Work>you could have 4 bus stations in a small circle (station-walk a bit if needed) and turbo-feed a town from 100 to a few thousand in just a few years
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>you don't have to transport all passengers to get the town growth bonus
10:59<andythenorth>you just have to collect
10:59<andythenorth>once a month or similar
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11:00<V453000>argoneus: what is wrong with that? :)
11:02<argoneus>V453000: it was just funny, since I read the post first and then the name
11:03<argoneus>it's like being in a topic "what's your favourite OS" and having bill gates post "Windows" without noticing the game
11:03<argoneus>name even
11:03<V453000>doesnt sound that funny to me
11:03<argoneus>s-sorry then
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11:16<Jinassi>Go to mac store, fart profoundly. Blame them for not using windows. Profit.
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't work properly in languages other than english
11:18<Jinassi>i..uh..didn't plan that ahead lol
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11:56<V453000>good plan though Jinassi :D
11:56<V453000>I especially liked the profoundly part
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14:16<Wolf01>hi o/
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14:23<Wolf01>so... PSN cracked again
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14:26<@Rubidium>Wolf01: make you think whether it was uncracked in the first place
14:26<@Rubidium>or is it just like wikileaks; just leak one thing every day instead of everything at once?
14:30<Wolf01>nah, cracker groups anounced it, maybe it happened some time ago, but it's not the same one of the last time
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14:41<andythenorth>so will a higher clock speed CPU drain my battery faster? o_O
14:41*andythenorth would assume so
14:42<andythenorth>but maybe it gets the work done faster, so can nap relatively more of the time :P
14:42<Wolf01>I read: "so will a higher train speed drains my clock's battery faster?" and I was wtf?!
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14:44<@Rubidium>not necessarily, but it depends on lots and lots of things
14:45<@Rubidium>though generally speaking: higher clock speed -> more changes -> higher heat production ( = more energy used)
14:45<@Rubidium>in the end it heavily depends on the case itself
14:46-!-luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
14:48<@Rubidium>if it's IO/memory heavy, then a higher clock speed will probably not help because it will just waste energy waiting on data
14:48<Wolf01>also you need to raise the processor's Vss because of the shape of the signal, higher clock means that the signal could not reach the "1" state before going to "0" again, so you get a sequence of "0" "maybe 1" "0" and so on
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14:51<Quatroking>simcity 2k free on origirenign
14:51<Wolf01>oh nice
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14:51<@Rubidium>yet another game from the era the games were still good ;)
14:53<Supercheese>So, then games were good, now they're great?
14:53<@Rubidium>to be serious... I'm kinda stuck in that era
14:54<Wolf01>you are not alone
14:54<frosch123>but i don't consider s2k good ...
14:54<Quatroking>it has a neat spacecraft on the cover tho
14:55<Wolf01>I don't consider even TTD good, but they are more enjoyable than most of today games
14:55<@Rubidium>SimFarm, SimTower, SimCity (1/2000), Caesar II, Transport Tycoon
14:55<@Rubidium>for some reason the stuff a decade after that became significantly worse
14:55<andythenorth>so currently I have 2.8Ghz i7 dual-core, from Dec 2013, get ~9 hours battery life on typical use
14:56<andythenorth>considering buying 3.0Ghz i7 dual-core, late 2014
14:56<@Rubidium>got the exact types?
14:56<andythenorth>could look them up
14:56<+glx>more recent can be more efficient even with faster clock
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14:59<Quatroking>oh and because I'm cool like that, also a free copy of afterfall insanity
14:59<andythenorth>22 nm "Haswell" 2.8 GHz Intel "Core i7" processor (4558U) vs.
14:59<andythenorth>22 nm "Haswell" 3.0 GHz Intel "Core i7" processor (4578U)
14:59<andythenorth>look like similar part numbers
14:59<+glx>and the TDP ?
14:59<Wolf01> <- nice train
15:00<andythenorth>how do I find TDP? :P
15:00<@Rubidium>both 28W
15:00<@Rubidium>interestingly the 4578 has half the L2 of 4558
15:01<@Rubidium>and apparantly twice the maximum memory bandwidth ?!?
15:01<andythenorth>apple have it specced as 4MB in both cases
15:02<andythenorth>oh no, that’s L3
15:02<@Rubidium>might be that the comparison website I found was wrong
15:03<andythenorth>differences are pretty marginal
15:04<andythenorth>so probably a non-interesting difference in battery life
15:05<+glx>they are almost the same
15:06<andythenorth>the difference on geekbench between the two macs is also marginal
15:06<andythenorth>I hate it when computing maxes out :P
15:06<andythenorth>apple hit this every few years
15:06<andythenorth>can’t make it go faster and/or have longer battery life
15:06<@Rubidium>looks like it took Intel a year to squeeze a few tenths of GHz extra CPU speed by improving their production processes
15:07<@Rubidium>but then... who's competing with Intel on x86?
15:08<andythenorth>the laptop I bought last year kicked battery life from 3 hours to 9 hours, and lost what feels like 0.5KG of weight
15:08<andythenorth>this year santa cannot deliver the same effect ;P
15:08<andythenorth>BAD SANTA
15:09<andythenorth>christmas newgrf & GS
15:09<@Rubidium>andythenorth: send him a letter
15:09<andythenorth>you have one sleigh
15:09<andythenorth>and have to deliver once to every house on the map
15:09<@Rubidium>Santa Claus, North Pole, H0H 0H0, Canada
15:10<@Rubidium>andythenorth: but Apple seems to be in the business of getting things larger again
15:10<andythenorth>they do?
15:11<andythenorth>mostly they seem to want to make ridiculous “… Air"
15:11<andythenorth>which are about as powerful as a desk calculator
15:11<@Rubidium>iphone air plus?
15:11<andythenorth>maybe ipad plus will replace my laptop
15:11<andythenorth>yeah right
15:12<andythenorth>ipad is shockingly bad
15:13<@Rubidium>le sigh...
15:13<andythenorth>is that French?
15:13<@Rubidium>iMac with 5K display... for only half of 5K$
15:14<andythenorth>le iMac
15:15<@Rubidium>Apple became cheap
15:15<@Rubidium>can't find anything for 25k$ anymore
15:16<@Rubidium>even the most beefed up Mac Pro is just over 22k$
15:20<andythenorth>but what would I do with it :P
15:21<andythenorth>compile FIRS faster?
15:21<andythenorth>I considered buying one to run as a remote compiler :P
15:21<andythenorth>we edit multi-stream HD video on iMacs at work
15:21<andythenorth>no Mac Pro needed
15:24<@peter1138>Apple have to be different.. everyone else is pushing 4K, they come along with 5K...
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15:54<+glx>hey 5 is better than 4
15:56<@peter1138>So what is the resolution they use?
15:56<@peter1138>5K doesn't mean anything :S
15:56<frosch123>100 x 50 pixels, isn't it?
15:57<frosch123>1/12 cga
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16:34<Eddi|zuHause>"license and registration, please"
16:34*andythenorth waits for back ups
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>schedule backups at a time you're not using the computer
16:35<andythenorth>these are a bit more urgent :P
16:36<andythenorth>disk repair reported unrecoverable errors earlier
16:36<andythenorth>and the backup volume keeps filling :P
16:36<andythenorth>done now
16:37<andythenorth>oh well, some Windows VMs aren’t backed up, nvm
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>who needs those...
16:40<andythenorth>on the interwebs aren’t they
16:40<andythenorth>only IE testing
16:40<andythenorth>taking up 20% of my HD :P
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16:52<__ln__>may i remind you that there's still 10 hours time to order a different tablet:
16:53<andythenorth>“There are no back doors or anything third parties could use for monitoring your activity"
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16:53<andythenorth>ha ha
16:53<andythenorth>and ha
16:55<frosch123>does it run ottd?
16:55<andythenorth>there’s an Android port of ottd?
16:56<__ln__>frosch123: probably more easily than other devices. it doesn't need jailbreaking to run your own software, first of all.
16:57<frosch123>i just want to know how i can ship my spyware to it
16:57<andythenorth>open source, provably more secure
16:58<@peter1138>Like OpenSSL?
16:59<@peter1138>And bash?
16:59<andythenorth>just like those
16:59<@peter1138>Also, that mouse...
17:00<@peter1138>We believe in piracy
17:01<@peter1138>Unique and independent OS with nothing released for it.
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17:01<andythenorth>crowd funding is funny
17:01<andythenorth>it’s all about how well you perform in the pitch
17:02<andythenorth>and how plausible and likeable you are
17:02<andythenorth>the real perfection is to be so likeable and homely that your product seems awesome
17:02<andythenorth>it’s basically a hustle
17:03<andythenorth>market trading passed off as craft
17:03<frosch123>you should make stuff, which people buy and not use after purchase
17:03<frosch123>in that case it does not need to work either
17:03<andythenorth>exercise equipment
17:03<andythenorth>gym membership
17:03<andythenorth>iPad Minis
17:03<frosch123>yup, that stuff
17:03<@peter1138>vinyl records
17:04<@peter1138>even CDs now
17:04<@peter1138>DAB radios
17:04<andythenorth>I use my DAB radio
17:04<andythenorth> iPods
17:04<@peter1138>Mine never has a good enough signal.
17:04<andythenorth>iPod accessories
17:04<andythenorth>kitchen equipment
17:05<@peter1138>the electric bread/cheese/meat slicer?
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: so that is already overfunded by 400%?
17:05<andythenorth>all the things
17:05<@peter1138>the food processor with 25 different attachments
17:05<andythenorth>ho, ottd is light on commits recently
17:05<andythenorth>must be dying
17:06<@peter1138>it's dead
17:06<andythenorth>is the rivers patch any good? The screenies look good
17:06<@peter1138>because there's no daylength or infrastructure sharing
17:06<@peter1138>and no road types
17:06<@peter1138>and no highways
17:06<frosch123>and no bug fixes :p
17:06<@peter1138>and no realistic scale
17:06<frosch123>not even for mhl
17:06<@peter1138>mhl is not buggy!
17:06<@peter1138>that's just a feature
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>and no custom bridgeheads
17:07<@peter1138>no programmable signals
17:07<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: it is. not that they'll need to pour the rest of the money into a shredder though.
17:07<andythenorth>but there is extra zoom, and extra zoom gui
17:07<andythenorth>thank god
17:08<@peter1138>__ln__, will it never be sold outside of this funding thing?
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17:08<frosch123>andythenorth: does fish have graphics for yeti yet?
17:08<frosch123>the tugboat could transport yetis
17:08<andythenorth>squid yeti
17:08<frosch123>i think they can swim
17:08<andythenorth>V453000 should render a giant squid holding a yeti
17:08<__ln__>peter1138: it will.
17:09<@peter1138>see, you said there's only 10 hours left
17:09<V453000>actually animating tentacles is one of the hugest wtf I have yet considered
17:09<@peter1138>i still don't have a need for any other tablet, not sure why i'd need that one
17:09<V453000>not doing that.
17:09<@peter1138>V453000, hentai?
17:09<__ln__>peter1138: 10 hours is a subset of e.g. 10 months.
17:09<andythenorth>V453000: tentacles are procedural no?
17:09<frosch123>peter1138: wait, do you have a use for *one* tablet?
17:10<@peter1138>frosch123, exactly
17:10<andythenorth>tablets are nice for resting your coffee mug on
17:10<@peter1138>but they seem popular enough that they're all in the electronics stores
17:10<andythenorth>if you have a nice non-slip, wipe-clean case
17:10<@peter1138>just... why?
17:10<andythenorth>because BBC Weather
17:10<andythenorth>and um
17:10<andythenorth>because kids?
17:10<@peter1138>kids get a bbc micro
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>what happened to these table-sized "tablets"?
17:11<__ln__>it boils down to: should there be more than two options in the world for a mobile OS. if everyone's fine with Android and iOS being the only choices, then fine.
17:11<V453000>andythenorth: sure, if you create the procedure? :D
17:11<V453000>peter1138: no. :)
17:12<andythenorth>__ln__: fair point, they are both terrible choices
17:12<andythenorth>is Sailfish the mozilla thing
17:12<andythenorth>someone showed me a mozilla tablet os
17:12<__ln__>andythenorth: nope, it isn't
17:12<@peter1138>linux works well as a os on my netbook
17:12<@peter1138>that's pretty mobile
17:12<@peter1138>my mobile phone just needs to make bloody phone calls
17:12<__ln__>it's somewhat the successor of MeeGo (developed by Nokia and to some extent Intel)
17:12<@peter1138>and android is pretty crappy at that :(
17:13<@peter1138>10" thing
17:13<@peter1138>with keyboard
17:13<@peter1138>for typing on
17:13<andythenorth>oic :P
17:13<@peter1138>the macbook should have osx but i've still not found it :p
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: so they were allowed to carry the MeeGo development out of Nokia?
17:13<andythenorth>I should send you a DVD
17:13<andythenorth>right now we have office shenanigans relating to no heating + asbestos
17:13<@peter1138>or get me a link to download it :p
17:13<andythenorth>so not a top priority :P
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>asbestos doesn't burn very well in the oven? :p
17:14<andythenorth>frigging ternary operator in python, I have to look it up everytime
17:14<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: a lot of it was licensed under GPL and other free licences. not the UI parts though.
17:14<@peter1138>x ? y : z
17:14<andythenorth>a if test else b
17:15<@peter1138>that's dumb
17:15<andythenorth>makes sense to me
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: i mean, there were probably a decent number of unreleased development efforts at nokia, did they have access to those?
17:15<andythenorth>but I just wrote it wrong
17:15<andythenorth>a if test or b
17:15<andythenorth>True OR False
17:15<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
17:15<@peter1138>nokia are clearly useless at OSes
17:16<andythenorth>they should have stuck to trees
17:16<andythenorth>one day there will be a phone as small as the 3210
17:16<andythenorth>but with big keys
17:16<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: they (probably) didn't; at least nothing such has been implied in public.
17:17<andythenorth>they did allow a load of staff to exit with IP
17:17<andythenorth>and some seed money allegedly
17:17<__ln__>that's true
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17:20<andythenorth>pikka zeps have fat bottoms
17:20<andythenorth>they would probably break out of depots in | view
17:20<andythenorth>fortunately we don’t have | depots
17:21<andythenorth>nor | canals or rivers
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>why worry about nonexistent problems?
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>there are | half-shores
17:22*andythenorth is not worrying
17:22<andythenorth>more basking in a problem side-stepped
17:22<argoneus>good night train friends
17:23<andythenorth>I like trains?
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>why did you have to do that?!?
17:26<andythenorth>what did I do now? o_O
17:26<NGC3982>Like trains.
17:27<andythenorth>also eh
17:27<andythenorth>I just did the last thing I know I need to do for Squid 1.0.0
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>then ship it!
17:28<andythenorth>so you’d all better try and break it, before I get it burnt to golden master and distribute the CDs
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>(pun intended)
17:28<andythenorth>oh wait
17:29<andythenorth>I could fix a few more things
17:29<andythenorth>but eh
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17:29<andythenorth>real artists ship, etc
17:30<andythenorth>now I just need to release bloody Road Hog, then I can learn how GS works
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17:41<andythenorth>also bed
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19:25<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i think the brand new keyboard just broke
19:27<NGC3982>How so?
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>seems to be unable to connect with the receiver
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>now i'm stuck on this wired keyboard... i don't like that at all
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20:08<+glx>have you tried to switch it off then on ?
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>of course
20:10<+glx>and the batteries are ok too I guess
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>i also tried replacing them. but it would be odd if brand new batteries were empty
20:11<+glx>maybe it's juste a matter of resyncing them
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>there are no sync buttons
20:12<+glx>anyway I hate wireless ;)
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>this also never happened with the previous two incarnations of the same type
20:13<+glx>well if it's new there's guarantee
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---Logclosed Wed Dec 10 00:00:34 2014