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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-12-11

---Logopened Thu Dec 11 00:00:35 2014
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00:59<Robert>is this the wrong place to go to ask questions on why my trains dont work
01:00<Robert>I have two trains at one stations stopping after unloaing 12% of their goods
01:01<Robert>nvm setting orders to transfer once fixed it
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04:42<argoneus>ayy
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04:59<supermop>yo
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06:11<AMDmi3>hi
06:12<AMDmi3>openttd fails to build with freetype 2.5.4
06:12<AMDmi3>bug: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6185 fix: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6185/getfile/10051/openttd-fontcache.patch
06:16<AMDmi3>or, better, https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6185/getfile/10052/openttd-fontcache.patch
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07:15<@planetmaker>AMDmi3, is fretype 2.5.4 somewhat newer than ~/ottd/trunk$ freetype-config --version
07:15<@planetmaker>14.1.8
07:15<@planetmaker>there seem to be different versioning schemes then?
07:18<AMDmi3>hm, yes, it seems to use some weird version in freetype-config
07:18<AMDmi3>mine is 17.3.11
07:19<argoneus>mine is 6.1.15
07:19<@planetmaker>meh, funky versions
07:19<AMDmi3>freetype-config sources say it's some libtool version of the library. not sure what that means, it's not .so version either
07:19<argoneus>I'm just pulling your leg
07:19<argoneus>I don't know what version I have, but it's funny how you have three different versions
07:19<AMDmi3>however what you want is freetype-config --ftversion
07:20<@planetmaker>argoneus, funny. very.
07:20<argoneus>but you're probably getting the wrong version
07:20<argoneus>a different one*
07:21<@planetmaker>interesting, AMDmi3. I wonder whether we should in config rather check for that than --version
07:22<@planetmaker>however your patch compiles for me fine. Just find the versioning of freetype confusing. Obviously :)
07:23<AMDmi3>well freetype-config --version output doesn't seem to be used in config.lib, so it likely does not matter
07:24<AMDmi3>but if it so happens that you'll need to check for freetype version to e.g. conditionally compile code, you'll need to use --ftversion, yes
07:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r27079 /trunk (findversion.sh src/fontcache.cpp) (2014-12-11 12:25:53 UTC)
07:25<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Compilation with freetype2 version 2.5.4 and newer (AMDmi3)
07:26<argoneus>that was fast
07:26<@planetmaker>ups... something more slipped in :D. But good... I forgot about that and it should be there :)
07:27<@planetmaker>AMDmi3, no, having one code path for all is easier to read like you did. Thanks for the patch
07:27<@planetmaker>I just wondered about the versions you quoted :)
07:27<@planetmaker>and I forgot to mention the FS entry :S
07:28<AMDmi3>thanks for merging!
07:28<@planetmaker>no worries. It's your work, Thanks for it :)
07:29<@planetmaker>you should find it in 1.4.5 and / or 1.5.0-beta1 soonish
07:29<@planetmaker>dunno which we will release :)
07:29<@planetmaker>probably the latter
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08:01<argoneus>planetmaker: also sorry :<
08:01<argoneus>I didn't mean to be rude
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10:08<argoneus>if you guys could uninvent any programming language (and all existing things would magically rewrite themselves to something you deem more appropriate), which would it be?
10:09<andythenorth>javascript
10:10<andythenorth>easy
10:10<argoneus>what would you rewrite existing JS things to?
10:10<andythenorth>python
10:10<andythenorth>also easy
10:10<argoneus>so all browsers would have a python interpreter built in?
10:10<argoneus>that'd be actually pretty neat
10:10<andythenorth>imagine the madness
10:10<andythenorth>and ‘restricted’ python isn't
10:10<andythenorth>I’m told
10:10<andythenorth>by people who have tried
10:12<@peter1138>php would go
10:12<@peter1138>along with go
10:12<@peter1138>and java
10:12<@peter1138>pascal
10:12<@peter1138>any of the stupid languages
10:12<@peter1138>and german
10:12<@peter1138>oh, that's just a language
10:13<andythenorth>you need to keep php
10:13<andythenorth>it’s a filter for bad programmers when hiring
10:13<argoneus>is putting php on your cv actually bad
10:13<andythenorth>it’s fairly reliable
10:13<andythenorth>only having PHP on your cv is bad
10:13<argoneus>my cv says c++, java, python, perl
10:13<argoneus>and from all those I realistically know... none of them
10:13<andythenorth>anyone with any instinct does not spend all their time in PHP
10:14<andythenorth>PHP conversely is probably the most easily get-hired-for language
10:14<andythenorth>due to epic scale of useage
10:14<argoneus>not that much anymore I hear
10:14<andythenorth>eh?
10:14<argoneus>java/ruby/python are in these days
10:14<argoneus>also new things like clojure
10:14<andythenorth>most of the internet is PHP
10:14<argoneus>but most of new websites aren't php
10:14<argoneus>or are they
10:14*argoneus shrugs
10:14<andythenorth>there’s always a latest ‘in’ thing on blogs
10:15<andythenorth>but meanwhile PHP
10:15<andythenorth>everywhere
10:15<andythenorth>it goes in cycles of who’s doing tech talks and videos
10:15<andythenorth>so something looks cool for a bit
10:15<andythenorth>but reality is, PHP
10:15<andythenorth>bearing in mind that Wordpress is PHP
10:15<andythenorth>and most of the internet is Wordpress
10:15<andythenorth>followed by Drupal, also PHP
10:16<@peter1138>haskell
10:16<andythenorth>to keep or remove?
10:16<@peter1138>remove
10:16<andythenorth>never used it
10:16<andythenorth>has some fans though
10:17<andythenorth>urgh
10:17*andythenorth back to work
10:17<andythenorth>writing python to provide json to javascript
10:17<argoneus>also I just realized
10:17<argoneus>why do languages use regex
10:17<argoneus>is it difficult to write a context-free language parser?
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10:18<argoneus>you can't match things like "a string of a's and b's where there's more a's than b's" with regex
10:18<@peter1138>Languages don't tend to use regexes.
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: it's easy to write a context free parser, but it's more time consuming to run them, that's why there's a lexer before the parser
10:20<argoneus>o
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: it reduces the size of the input data to tokens instead of characters
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>which again simplifies your grammar rules
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>by splitting the two you get "the best of both worlds"
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11:45<@Alberth>hai
11:59<frosch123>hola
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12:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27080 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2014-12-11 17:45:32 UTC)
12:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:45<@DorpsGek>latin - 2 changes by Supercheese
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12:47<frosch123>haha, so he actually succeeded in breaking it again :p
12:48<frosch123>why is it an hour early though?
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>i asked that myself yesterday as well
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12:49<frosch123>has it been like that for 6 weeks and noone noticed? :p
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>yeah
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>[Samstag, 25. Oktober 2014] [19:45:30] <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27042 trunk/src/lang/irish.txt (2014-10-25 17:45:23 UTC)
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>[Sonntag, 26. Oktober 2014] [18:46:25] <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27045 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-10-26 17:46:16 UTC)
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>clear sign that openttd is dieing :p
12:51<__ln__>not dying fortunately
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, update for portal? how did that happen?
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12:55<Eddi|zuHause>or did they put an easteregg in it for an upcoming portal 3? :p
12:56<Jinassi>There is a cake now in it, has HL3 written with marzipan on it and release date on bottom.
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13:03<argoneus>ayy
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14:11<andythenorth>o/
14:11<andythenorth>Alberth: nice screenshot ;)
14:11<Wolf01>o/
14:12<@Alberth>yeah, one of the advantages of not having money, you try to build as cheap as possible :p
14:12<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
14:13<Wolf01>really? In Italy seem it doesn't work as you said
14:14<@Alberth>the farms also produce live stock, but I don't think the network can handle twice as many engines :)
14:15<@Alberth>Wolf01: too much political ambition?
14:15<Wolf01>mmh updating phpstorm with my powerful adsl (2.3Mbps) takes forever :|
14:15<@Alberth>is iron horse supposed to be in balance with road hog? steam trams are quite hopeless compared to the narrow gauge
14:16<@Alberth>a strong wind must be blowing in your adsl, stopping all the bits
14:17<Wolf01>I'm more for "a strong technician messed up the wires again"
14:18<@Alberth>equally possible :)
14:19<andythenorth>Alberth: yeah it’s supposed to be balanced, but I haven’t tested much
14:20<andythenorth>trams are definitely supposed to be less capable than narrow gauge, but not useless
14:20<andythenorth>my goal is that it’s always obvious which one to pick
14:20<andythenorth>but if the choice is always narrow gauge, I’ve screwed up :)
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14:22<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/Hardenkum Transport, 1874-10-15.sav have a look at this
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14:23<@Alberth>11 steam trams for 2 farms meat, and ~3 normal trains for grain, not to mention the narrow gauges of the screen shot a bit further up in the mountains
14:24<@peter1138>url with spaces ;(
14:24*andythenorth looking
14:25<andythenorth>yeah that looks about what I’d expect
14:25<@Alberth>peter1138: all openttd generated
14:26<andythenorth>trams are ~poor in 1870s
14:26<andythenorth>they get a bit better later, but not a lot
14:26<andythenorth>with RVs, progression is tricky
14:27<@Alberth>7 narrow gauge for 4 farms grain
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14:29<andythenorth>are you going to build any more trams?
14:29<andythenorth>or just trains?
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14:32<@Alberth>not sure how useful they are, at 32km/h anything longer distance than this is mostly useless
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14:33<@Alberth>I was just building the new line to the north; the northern part could be trams, I guess
14:33<@Alberth>sounds like fun to try :)
14:36<@Alberth>I do like the narrow gauge, cheap enough for short lines with many stations
14:36<andythenorth>if it was my game I’d use the narrow gauge
14:36<@Alberth>where?
14:36<andythenorth>everywhere that wasn’t high traffic
14:37<andythenorth>I’d only use trams for really short routes, or in cities
14:37<@Alberth>sounds like a good tactic
14:38<@Alberth>trams probably cannot handle moving that much alcohol :)
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14:39<andythenorth>I can never avoid planning ahead based on knowing the vehicle progression :P
14:39<andythenorth>so I know when the good vehicles turn up for each route type
14:40<andythenorth>because / so /s
14:44<@Alberth>you cannot randomize that in a newgrf?
14:57<andythenorth>not trivially
14:57<andythenorth>there’s a ~17 year random intro date
15:01<V453000>andythenorth: types of routes should then be vehicle classes, and you should have all of the important classes available from the start ;)
15:01<V453000>CHOICE
15:01<V453000>:D
15:03<@Alberth>randomize stats, then?
15:03<V453000>XD
15:03<V453000>actually quite a fun idea for RVs Alberth
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15:05<@Alberth>you'd hate not knowing what train would be useful, wouldn't you? :)
15:05<V453000>well trains are more complicated, if you got a bad random you could not really use it with the same train length/amount of engines etc
15:05<V453000>probably
15:05<V453000>but for RVs it could actually be a lot of fun
15:06-!-Xrufuian [~Xrufuian@cpe-142-136-204-41.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
15:06<V453000>if I ever do RVs then I will seriously consider something like that actually
15:06<V453000>which I might if I want to make Everything Eventually
15:06<V453000>tm
15:06<@Alberth>trams? :)
15:06<V453000>wetrail trams?
15:07<V453000>wettrams?
15:07<@Alberth>flying trams?
15:07<V453000>xd
15:08<V453000>not that, but wet tram tracks would actually be kind of cute
15:08<V453000>nyway gnight :)
15:08<@Alberth>gn V :)
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15:37<argoneus>https://store.eu.square-enix.com/emea_europe/games/pc-windows-download/The-Square-Enix-Christmas-Surprise.php
15:37<argoneus>what's in the box
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>a surprise, apparently
15:39<@peter1138>£4.99 for something crap?
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see why i'd buy such a thing
15:41<argoneus>because you like videogames
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>if someone liked videogames, he'd like certain genres or types of games
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>so there'd be a big chance that most of the games in a random offer would be crap
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>and the rest are things you already have
15:43<argoneus>yeah
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16:05<andythenorth>and your surprise is…disappointment?
16:06-!-TomyLobo [~foo@ip5b417367.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openttd
16:13<andythenorth>oh dear
16:13<andythenorth>forthcoming mod warning on lego forum for andythenorth
16:14<andythenorth>really can’t help it
16:14<andythenorth>they’re such fuckheads
16:16<Wolf01>what happened?
16:18<andythenorth>nothing
16:18<andythenorth>they just whine
16:18<andythenorth>it’s impossible for me not to troll them
16:19<frosch123>did you complain that lego added some new special starwars pieces?
16:19<andythenorth>I didn’t no
16:19<andythenorth>they did
16:19<andythenorth>I only go there to see reviews of new sets
16:19<andythenorth>but always constant whining about how Lego is dying
16:20<frosch123>ah, so you complained that they praised a new set, though it was only a remake of one you had 30 years ago?
16:20<andythenorth>oh you know my operating mode :(
16:20<andythenorth>you have rumbled me
16:22<andythenorth>swapping a single css class with jquery is fiddly :P
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>the first genuine lego i had was a TV truck
16:24<andythenorth>was there easty lego?
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>yes
16:24<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: this one? http://brickset.com/sets/6659-1/TV-Camera-Crew
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>no
16:25<andythenorth>http://brickset.com/sets/6661-1/Mobile-TV-Studio
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>it was a blue-ish truck with antenna
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that looks more like it
16:26<andythenorth>means you are 3-6 years younger than me
16:26<andythenorth>at a guess
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>well, must have been in early 1990, meaning i was around 8
16:27<andythenorth>4 years younger
16:27<Wolf01>one of the very first set I had: http://brickset.com/sets/6698-1/RV-with-Speedboat
16:28<andythenorth>Wolf01: a classic :)
16:32<Wolf01>then my cousin kindly gave me what was left of his sets
16:32<Wolf01>now I have: http://rebrickable.com/profile/Wolf01/sets
16:33<Wolf01>(I must admit I like to work just to purchase lego and videogames)
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't even touched lego in over a decade
16:34<Wolf01>my coworker too, now we are wasting lots of money on them
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>"Recently Roberto Orci has stepped away from directing Star Trek 3. This has prompted fans on Twitter and Facebook to trend #BringInRiker in an effort to get Jonathan Frakes to replace him. Frakes himself has apparently caught wind of it and is so psyched at the idea that's he's reached out to JJ Abrams who's still producing the film."
16:37<Wolf01>ahah
16:38<andythenorth>gah javascript
16:38<andythenorth>hate it
16:43<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: huh?!? isn't that like 30 years old news?
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: they probably meant 13 :)
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>and i missed a "we introduce new counting" era
16:46<@Rubidium>oh.. is that the clue
16:47<@Alberth>andythenorth: tank car unload speed is very high of Railway
16:49<@Alberth>as in, instantly :)
16:49*andythenorth looks
16:49<andythenorth>oh yeah
16:49<andythenorth>20
16:49<andythenorth>and it’s 20t cap
16:49<andythenorth>so is that 1 tick?
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>it takes us about 30min to load a 20t truck, so unloading a 60t wagon is 1.5h
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16:50<@Alberth>load speed is also high
16:51<andythenorth>unload = load
16:52<andythenorth>tank wagons are supposed to be quick, but that’s excessive
16:52<andythenorth>presumably there’s no point setting fractional ticks?
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16:53<andythenorth>i.e. 20t wagon needs an integer component of 20? 5, 10, 20
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>i'd probably set capacity/3 or something
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>rounded up
16:53<andythenorth>agreed
16:54*andythenorth needs code review
16:54<andythenorth>:P
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16:59<andythenorth>hurgh
16:59<andythenorth>non-working javascript because of invisible ​chars copied from stack overflow
16:59<andythenorth>that will teach me to copy the codes
17:02<@Alberth>gn andy et al
17:02<Wolf01>nn
17:02<andythenorth>night
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17:14<Eddi|zuHause>you seriously run copy-pasted code from a random website?
17:14<Wolf01>why not? if there are people which tell you it's working, then it's right ;)
17:17-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
17:19<andythenorth>we all seriously run who applications or operating systems from random websites
17:19<andythenorth>whole * :)
17:19<andythenorth>I run a random ottd
17:20<andythenorth>and I let ports tools run with sudo, which bothers me :(
17:20<andythenorth>pasting some css manipulation code to run into my browser definitely only needs the small size of tinfoil hat
17:21-!-Ektor [~david@nak11-h03-89-91-186-175.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #openttd
17:23<Ektor>hi everybody
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17:24<Eddi|zuHause>hi, you dropped an H there.
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17:38<Wolf01>'night all
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18:40<Jinassi>planetmaker, should i better remove the updater post, seems shady now(i'm not the owner of the app)
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19:22<NazZuki082>hi
19:23*NazZuki082 slaps Extrems around a bit with a large fishbot
19:23*NazZuki082 slaps Flippy around a bit with a large fishbot
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 12 00:00:37 2014