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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-12-18

---Logopened Thu Dec 18 00:00:46 2014
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02:26<V453000>hmmm why does nmlc not say which sprite line is failing, just the line of the template ._.
02:26<V453000>I know the filename at least, which is something but ...
02:34<V453000>eg this https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p5hssrqzb
02:34<V453000>I know some of those is having an error
02:34<V453000>I think the only option to get beyond bounds of the file is to have y0 while x is >7F
02:34<V453000>but I cant find any of these
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02:43<V453000>Alberth: halp :D
02:43<V453000>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p5hssrqzb :(
02:43<V453000>nmlc seems to hate me
02:43<V453000>doesnt give line of error, just points to the template
02:45<@Alberth>yeah error handling with templates is not optimal, so to say
02:45<V453000>well yeah I had no idea nmlc would not give me the line where the error actually is from :(
02:47<@Alberth>I don't know if it keeps that information
02:48<V453000>hm :|
02:49<V453000>still, there arent so many of them not to check by eye
02:49<V453000>and I cant see any that would be below 7F and have y for 1
02:57<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p1pjxuq2j
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02:57<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppkg4mk3k and my secret :p
02:58<@Alberth>moin andy
02:58<V453000>O_O
02:58<V453000>what
02:58<andythenorth>bonsoir
02:58<V453000>anyway, what does the output mean?
02:58<andythenorth>what GS shall we make for christmas?
02:58<andythenorth>Santa Claws?
02:59<V453000>no X seems to exceed 2k and y 14k?
02:59<andythenorth>deliver food and goods to every town on the map
02:59<V453000>or
02:59<andythenorth>how hard can that be to code?
03:00<andythenorth>nice to play on a small map
03:00<@Alberth>I computed your x and y coordinate for the last sprite in the template, and let the machine print when an coordinate became bigger than before
03:02<V453000>am lost
03:02<@Alberth>@calc 128*0x75
03:02<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 14976
03:03<V453000>the image is x 2880 y16k
03:03<V453000>which should be fine
03:05<V453000>where 16k is exactly 128*128
03:08<@Alberth>@calc 128*0x75 + 128
03:08<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 15104
03:08<@Alberth>not even close to 16k
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03:11<V453000>yeah, only 7F is almost there
03:11<V453000>80 would be exactly there, which is where I would start adding 1 to y
03:11<V453000>this is why I dont understand where is the issue
03:12<V453000>unless there is some major issue at X
03:12<V453000>which I dont see happening at 2800 either
03:12<V453000>there is even the extra room of x1 zoom sprites next to it
03:14<@Alberth>say I make a dummy sprite file of 2880 x (16*1024), what needs to be done in your paste to make it acceptable to nml?
03:14<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/NUTS/MAG_FLATBED_0000.png this is the image
03:15<V453000>what do you mean what needs to be done?
03:15<@Alberth>it'd needs an 8bpp file too
03:15<V453000>I got this file, I add my template, give it hexa value according to the sprite sheet, assign correct template (x4 or x1)
03:15<V453000>sure, the 8bpp file is exactly the same ... the error didnt get there clearly
03:16<@Alberth>I want to run your paste through nml, so I can check I get the same error and/or play with it
03:17<@Alberth>I don't care about the actual output or any logic
03:17<@Alberth>I just want to verify that nml dies on the code in that paste
03:18<V453000>right
03:18<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/NUTS/MAG_FLATBED_mask_8bpp.png 8bpp mask
03:20<@Alberth>nmlc ERROR: "y.nml", line 18: Undeclared block identifier 'spriteset_maglevflatbed_empty_batteries' encountered
03:21<@Alberth>how do I make spriteset_maglevflatbed_empty_batteries known?
03:23<V453000>ah that needs 8bpp x1
03:23<V453000>sec
03:25<V453000>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdxle5ip8
03:25<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/NUTS/maglevflatbed.png
03:28<@Alberth> nmlc info: 0 sprites, 0 cached, 0 orphaned, 0 duplicates, 0 newly encoded (native) <-- it's being smart :(
03:28<V453000>xd
03:29<@Alberth>a sprite set needs being used probably
03:29<@planetmaker>moin
03:29<@planetmaker>yes, it does
03:30<@planetmaker>same goes for switches. I found that out the other day, too when I tried to reproduce some stuff
03:30<Eddi|zuHause>that's why i have this dummy code in CETS
03:30<@planetmaker>and hence I always ask for full source ;)
03:31<Eddi|zuHause>because i need nmlc to not optimize out some things
03:31<@Alberth>it needs a --no-optimize flag :p
03:32<@Alberth>Sprites look very spiffy, V
03:32<Eddi|zuHause>that's not right either, because it should optimize out loads of other things
03:33<Eddi|zuHause>plus it's probably a bad idea to support random workarounds
03:33<V453000>XD spiffy but something borkd :P
03:34<V453000>alberth here I have sprite groups and switch https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p93nkxiuu
03:34<V453000>maglevflatbed_wagon_switch just use this on a vehicle and it should be everything I believe
03:35<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: it's for debugging, not for production
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03:36<@Alberth>item(FEAT_TRAINS, item_icm) { graphics { default: spriteset_maglevflatbed_YETI_5; } } <-- something like this seems sufficient, I'll add a few more :)
03:37<V453000>Alberth: just paste the thing I pasted
03:37<V453000>and use maglevflatbed_wagon_switch
03:37<V453000>that will take all of the sprites
03:37<@Alberth>ah, nice
03:41<@Alberth> nmlc info: 992 sprites, 16 cached, 0 orphaned, 32 duplicates, 944 newly encoded (native)
03:41<@Alberth> nmlc info: Train items: 1/65420
03:41<@Alberth> nmlc info: Concurrent spritesets: 4/255 ("y.nml", line 164)
03:41<@Alberth> nmlc info: Concurrent spritegroups: 49/256 ("y.nml", line 360)
03:41<@Alberth>seems to work
03:41<@Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/y.nml
03:42<V453000>._.
03:42<V453000>what could possibly be my issue?
03:42<@Alberth>it fits with the observation that the coordinates were within bounds
03:43<V453000>right
03:43<V453000>but if I give you the same code and the same files how could I get an error? XD
03:43<@Alberth>please try to run my file, to check your nml does the same
03:44<@Alberth>it's not the same file, I have taken lots of short cuts :p
03:44<@Alberth>you checked whether that .png file is used elsewhere?
03:44<V453000>yeah, only this area though.
03:45<@Alberth>I should download your stuff?
03:45<V453000>I dont heve it in the repository atm
03:46<@Alberth>k
03:48<V453000>your thing compiled for me
03:48<V453000>-> I should attempt to paste your code into my thing I suppose
03:51<@Alberth>can you take out some parts?
03:51<@Alberth>or eg replace line 5 by copying line 4 or so?
03:52<@Alberth>ie some way to make it more clear where the error originates from
03:52<V453000>Probably
03:52<V453000>trying to let it compile now
03:52<V453000>runs so far
03:52<V453000>lets see for how long
03:54<V453000>takin suspiciously long now
03:54<V453000>seriously if this fixes it then I have NO idea what is different XD
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03:55<V453000>right it failed, but at SLUGflatbed
03:55<V453000>which is exactly the same where word maglev is replaced for SLUG
03:55<V453000>so I will just paste your thing again XD
03:56<V453000>it means that the whole maglevflatbed is correct as all of it is before SLUG
03:57<V453000>compiling again =D
03:58<@Alberth>perhaps better check the result before doing a mass replace?
03:59<@Alberth>Oh, you noticed I killed your cargo table?
04:01<V453000>thats fine I just replaced the sprite definitions
04:01<V453000>not the groups/switches
04:02<V453000>I am quite confident that IF it compiles, then it will be correct
04:02<V453000>the if is a thing though XD
04:02<@Alberth>a minor pre-condition :D
04:02<V453000>:)
04:03<V453000>taking quite a while to compile :+
04:03<V453000>but considering that I am basically tripling the amount of sprites of NUTS once I get done ...
04:03<V453000>not mentioning that third of them are x4 32bpp
04:04<V453000>well, the longer it goes atm, the more hope I have that it will go through XD
04:05<@Alberth>compiled sprites get cached, so any next time is continuing from the point of the last failure
04:05<@Alberth>unless you change coordinates or files, or so
04:07<@Alberth>/me looks for a very small test case with a broken template
04:07<V453000>right :)
04:09<V453000>wtffffff
04:09<V453000>it compiled actually
04:09<V453000>l
04:09<V453000>lets see the fruit
04:09<@Alberth>oh noes! :D
04:10<V453000>looks right
04:10<V453000>the company colours are fucking amazing
04:11<V453000>slightly uglier than without them, but since you can adjust it I think it is still nice
04:12<V453000>even though I have no idea what did you fix Alberth , thank you so much. :)
04:12<@Alberth>I have no idea either :p
04:13<V453000>XD
04:13<V453000>it shall remain a mystery I suppose
04:14<@Alberth>it would be nice if we could at least establish what was wrong
04:14<V453000>well yeah
04:14<V453000>trying to re-add x1 atm
04:14<V453000>that could be a source
04:14<V453000>aka the x1 template being borken
04:15<V453000>buuut lets see
04:16<V453000>compiled without problems again
04:16<V453000>even with x1
04:17<V453000>I was kind of hoping that the error would be there XD
04:17<V453000>but mystery
04:18<@Alberth>eh? it points to the template instance here
04:19<V453000>xd
04:20<V453000>well the x1 just made it quite a bit uglier in some places, but other than that it is functional
04:20<@Alberth>what nml version do you use?
04:21<V453000>will check after this compile
04:21<V453000>probably not the latest
04:21<V453000>about 1-2 months old
04:27<V453000>hm
04:27<V453000>downscaling methods are wtf
04:28<@Alberth>no improved error location reporting since then, by the looks of the log message
04:28<V453000>right :)
04:28<@Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/tst.zip <-- could you test this?
04:29<@Alberth>nmlc ERROR: "006_vehicle.nml", line 54: Read beyond bounds of image file 'opengfx_generic_trams1.png' <-- that's the error I get, near the call of "tpl()"
04:29<@Alberth>instead of in the middle of the template
04:30<V453000>cannot idenfity image file
04:30<V453000>the pcx
04:30<V453000>is the error it gives me
04:31<@planetmaker>yes... windows nml exe does not read pcx
04:32<@planetmaker>windoze simply is too stupid for that :P
04:32<V453000>XD
04:32<V453000>question is if pcx isnt too stupid :P
04:32<@planetmaker>of course, pcx is too stupid in the first place
04:32<@planetmaker>but as windows introduced pcx to the world, it should recognize it. But it doesn't anymore ;)
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04:34<V453000>oh XD
04:34<@Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/opengfx_generic_trams1_8bpp.png can you use this one instead?
04:34<V453000>hm my x1 downsizing method is utter shit
04:34<V453000>probably broken masking
04:37<V453000>I am qutie lost in the files Alberth XD
04:37<V453000>there are 3 now
04:37<V453000>one is pcx
04:37<V453000>one is 8bpp
04:37<@Alberth>replace pcx with the *_8bpp.png
04:37<@Alberth>or teach your system to read pcx files :p
04:38<@Alberth>I'd like to know what line the error is reported
04:39<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/NUTS/wtftest.png
04:39<@Alberth>right, pointing right at the line you want to have :p
04:40<V453000>yeah I guess
04:41<@Alberth>always nice if you try to reproduce issues and utterly fail
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04:51<V453000>I think I will just release 0.7.8 and be done with it for now XD
04:55<@Alberth>if you ever manage to reproduce a report with the wrong line, either with a small example, or with public sources, please report it as a bug in nml
04:56<@Alberth>imho nml should also give you the template instance line
04:58<@Alberth>oh, it already exists: Bug #7001 but no example file :(
04:58<@Alberth>/me downloads yeti
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05:02<@Alberth>how big is the repo?
05:02<V453000>as fuck
05:02<V453000>mathematically precise.
05:03<@Alberth>a rough estimate is enough :p
05:03<V453000>looks like 7,65 GB here
05:03<@Alberth>right, at 1.6MB/s it'll be finished in 20 minutes or so
05:04<@Alberth>oh, no, much more even
05:04<@Alberth>ah well, I'll check it at the end of the day :)
05:04<V453000>XD right
05:09<V453000>hm I didnt know it is that big actually
05:09<V453000>was expecting like 2-3
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05:14<@Alberth>it stores all history
05:16<@planetmaker>maybe we should consider the largefiles extension for it. But ... it has rough edges. And means additional hassle
05:16<@Alberth>so if you change a sprite file, it saves the old and the new one
05:16<@planetmaker>for everyone involved
05:16<@Alberth>from a repo point of view, it would be best if you make lots of small graphics files
05:17<@Alberth>assuming you're not constantly changing every sprite :)
05:20<@planetmaker>very much so, yes
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05:25<@Alberth>I wonder if there exist programs to generate a small diff for a changed image file, and if you could hook that into mercurial
05:26<@Alberth>theoretically it should be possible, but it feels a bit fragile
05:26<petern_>it probably makes sense to keep each object in its own image.
05:27<@Alberth>source code has the nice advantage people can restore things if diffs get broken
05:27<petern_>Although that assumes everything is easily segregatable.
05:30<V453000>creating many files is a pure pain to me
05:30<V453000>I like having it in large sprite sheets
05:32<@planetmaker>Alberth, there do exist diffs for images or merge programmes, but ... yes, fragile and not very easy
05:38<@Alberth>without hg integration, it the only use is an ad-hoc update of some image, imho
05:39<@Alberth>s/it//
05:40<@Alberth>I am sure I had something planned to do for today, but I completely forgot what it was :p
05:40<@peter1138>Sleep?
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05:48<@Alberth>that's further down the list :p
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06:38<V453000>uploding nutez =D
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11:01<V453000>got a newly reinstalled pc :D
11:01<V453000>them clean windoze
11:03<@Alberth>all nicely polished, fresh from the factory
11:04<V453000>lets change that
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11:50<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27084 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-12-18 16:50:11 UTC)
11:50<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Improve documentation of AllocateWindowDescFront.
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13:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27085 /trunk/src (genworld_gui.cpp window_gui.h) (2014-12-18 18:20:59 UTC)
13:21<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Always return a valid window to the world generation gui code.
13:22<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r27086 /trunk/src (newgrf_debug_gui.cpp story_gui.cpp) (2014-12-18 18:22:23 UTC)
13:22<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Simplify opening of windows by always returning a valid window pointer.
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14:27<Wolf01>hi hi
14:28<@Alberth>moin
14:33<@peter1138>hi
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15:20<Taede>ello
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16:48<AmongtheSavages>hello?
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17:04<AmongtheSavages>anyone here?
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17:08<Bobix>hi, how do i fix the problem with industries going gung-ho quadruple too fast when playing with longer days?
17:10<AmongtheSavages>i dunno
17:11<AmongtheSavages>i'm watching a tutorial on railways and i see two different approaches on traffic flow. one uses exit/entrace/block signals and the other block/path only.
17:11<AmongtheSavages>which way is most secure and efficient?
17:14<Jinassi>Bobix, from my experince, its best to plan ahead for increased production, having an efficient station and/or longer trains help
17:16<Jinassi>AmongtheSavage: Depends on preference from my point of view, but I still have lots to learn. I prefer path/block, since that's what i learned 1st and try to accomodate designs accordingly
17:17<Jinassi>there's not much difference imho, i know path signals let multiple trains on the same track, if paths are not crossed, but I'd rather see someone else chip in.
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17:27<Bobix>Jinassi: indeed, but i want it to be more of a challenge since increasing day length effectively is cheating in this case and i don't want that
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17:33<AmongtheSavages>thx
17:35<Bobix>i believe path signals are newer and were introduced to replace block/exit signals
17:35<Bobix>but i'm no expert
17:36<Wolf01>'night
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17:46<AmongtheSavages>anyone know of any good 32bpp scenarios?
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17:54<AmongtheSavages>are all AI's compatible with zbase? will they mess up any 32bpp graphics?
17:54<AmongtheSavages>meaning will anything turn into 8b
17:54<Jinassi>AI is just comp player
17:54<Jinassi>does not hack your interface
17:58<argoneus>good night train friends
18:00<Jinassi>nn
18:02<AmongtheSavages>gn
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 19 00:00:47 2014