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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-12-20

---Logopened Sat Dec 20 00:00:49 2014
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00:43<Jinassi>player posted instructions on how to use 32bpp extrazoom grf as a static. gto a feeling it's a bit toucky grf due to license issues with it. I can remove post on /r/openttd at your discretion devs
00:43<Jinassi>*got
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00:49<Supercheese>It's zBase
00:49<Supercheese>so it's fine
00:49<Supercheese>no need to worry
00:50<Supercheese>oooooh no wait it's both
00:53<Jinassi>try it with OpenGFX :p
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00:56<Supercheese>Ugh, he recommended you put in content_download...
00:57<Supercheese>I do not understand why, that should be for Bananas only
00:57<Supercheese>but people go sticking their own stuff in there
01:20<Eddi|zuHause>some myths you don't get killed
01:20<Eddi|zuHause>but still you should work against that...
01:20-!-Gantradies [~oftc-webi@101.191.26.161] has joined #openttd
01:21<Eddi|zuHause>like the person who used the trash folder as mail archive
01:22<Eddi|zuHause>... until an admin came along and flushed everybody's trash to make space
01:22<Gantradies>hey... err.. woudl nayone be up for giving me a hand configureing a linuix Dedicated server/
01:22<Gantradies>?
01:23<Gantradies> i normally play on windows, the owner of my teamspeak group set one up on one of his spare racks and is letting me run it, and im trying to work out how to get online content working properly ( im accessing the VM via SSH through PuTTy)
01:24<Gantradies>like, how to enable it without access to the ingame gui. i dropboxed in a config file, but it removed the info at teh bottom o nteh active newGRF's
01:24<Eddi|zuHause>you use the "content" command, it works vaguely like a package manager you find on linux
01:24<Gantradies> i know aobut that, i mean actually activating it, or does it do it automatically usually and i messed something up before
01:25<Gantradies>( barely knows more then teh barest navigation basics for useing LX)
01:25<Eddi|zuHause>something like "content select <blah>" and "content download"
01:25<Gantradies> and it automatically activates it next time you generate a new map?
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01:25<Eddi|zuHause>no
01:26<Eddi|zuHause>but that's probably easier if you upload a savegame you made with your client
01:26<Eddi|zuHause>with all the settings and newgrfs and stuff
01:27<Gantradies>*facepalm* sohulda tohurght abotu that. its al ittle tricky because it dont have actual access to teh box, and FTP isnt enabled
01:27<Eddi|zuHause>if you upload a .cfg from windows to linux, you probably need to replace the \ with / for the path names
01:28<Gantradies> on, say, Therse ones, right? urban_suspended_monorail.1.1\susmon1.1.grf = vacuum_tube_train-0.22\vactrain.grf = aussie_town_names-0.1\downunder.grf = av8_aviators_aircraft_set-2.21\pb_av8w.grf = monolev_replacement_set_v0.3.6-0.3.7\mrsv037.grf = oil_rig_for_snowland_and_desert-v1\oilrigsd.grf = sailing_ships-0.62\ss.grf = fish_2-squidrc8\fish.grf = 1 1 0 temperate_oil_wells_can_increase.v2\oilsgoup.grf = national_bank_ttdur-1.0\nationalbankw
01:28<Gantradies> or on everything that involves file/folder paths in the file?
01:29<Gantradies> like, just teh entrys in teh newgrf section at the bottom, or..?
01:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but additionally, these look like old format, the new format has some info about versions in them
01:29<Gantradies> sorry if im asking a lotta stupid questions, im trying ot make sure i dont mess osmething up due to assumeing osmething basic
01:29<Eddi|zuHause>the game might ignore/delete old format info, especially if it can't find the files
01:30<Eddi|zuHause>the format was changed between 1.3 and 1.4
01:30<Gantradies>merf. so if i donwload it ingame via the console, if i get it ot gen a new world, will itutomatically use the new content, or owudl i have to add it to teh .cfg file manually?
01:30<Gantradies>between? thats odd, i only redownloaded aobut a monthr 2 back, did a new stable ver come out iwothut me noticeing?
01:31<Eddi|zuHause>no, 1.4 is from april this year
01:31<Eddi|zuHause>with some minor updates since then
01:31<Gantradies>huh. thats odd. im definitely on 1.4. what'd make it save teh info with old format?
01:33<Gantradies> sorry i keep coming back ot this, but if i donwload some newgrfs to the server via console commands, they'll be installed and when i make a new map?
01:34<Eddi|zuHause>if they are not in the .cfg, they are just downloaded, they will not be activated on new map, but they will be found when loading a savegame
01:35<Gantradies>is the game flexable enoghu to automatically DL missing content when you laod a save? i think space engineers has spoiled me X_X
01:36<Gantradies>again ,sorry ofr all the stupid questions, just irritated that i keep messing up and triyng ot make certain i actually get it up and running this time
01:37<Eddi|zuHause>i think the automatic download from command line was not implemented
01:37<Eddi|zuHause>but you can "content select all" or something
01:37<Gantradies>O.o wouldnt that mkae it DL literally everything?
01:38<Gantradies>*mental image of admin yelling at me for queueing up a gig or so of textures*
01:38<Eddi|zuHause>yes
01:38<Eddi|zuHause>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pnbziolr2 <-- this is what the new format looks like
01:38<Eddi|zuHause>that is "grfid|md5|filename = parameters"
01:39<Gantradies>huh
01:39<Gantradies> what'd make it default to teh odl format?
01:39<Gantradies>old
01:39<Eddi|zuHause>hm, maybe new format wasn't actually in 1.4
01:39<Eddi|zuHause>then it'll come to effect in 1.5
01:39<Gantradies>on nightlys?
01:39<Eddi|zuHause>yes
01:40<Eddi|zuHause>then you don't need to worry about that, and only replace the \ with /
01:40<Gantradies>whew! thanks for being helpful, jsut oding that now
01:41<Eddi|zuHause>and make sure the files are downloaded on the server
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01:43<Gantradies>';heh. anyoen remeber that old one from years back that added a SC1 Terran Battlecruiser as a helicopter?
01:45<Eddi|zuHause>that was probably not legal to distribute
01:45<Eddi|zuHause>if you mean this "sergej" guy
01:49<Supercheese>I figure a Dropship would be more Transport-ish
01:52<Gantradies>legal?
01:52<Gantradies>*grumbles aobut not bieng able ot set the cursor location with his mouse*
01:53<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, consoles generally don't do that
01:53<Eddi|zuHause>the windows cmd probably doesn't do that either
01:54<Gantradies>point
01:55<Gantradies>trying to remeber, is there a way to check the ocntent ID of a newgrf from the main menu?
01:56<Gantradies>it isnt sohwing for me *( onj my client, think i'll just get download it via the console) asnd im not sure if it doesnt do that or im jsut stupoid and not seeing osmething right in front of me
02:00<Supercheese>you mean grfID?
02:00<Supercheese>it should show that in the newgrf selection menu... unless that's a feature you have to have developer active for
02:00<Gantradies> the short 4 letter one the console commands list and use to DL stuff fomr teh server
02:00<Gantradies>4 digit, sorry
02:17<Supercheese>oh, that I do not know about
02:26<Gantradies> outta curiosity, are any of those web config plugins still being maintained? i saw some old threads aobtu a few, figured it'd make making a new map a little quicker
02:29-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1B7CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
02:29<Gantradies> Hail Progman, the Coder Superhero!
02:29<Gantradies> XD
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02:36<andythenorth>o/
02:43<Progman>\o/
02:50<supermop>yo
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02:53<Gantradies>i need a bit of a hand with this
02:54<Gantradies>the server owner (physical server, i mean) set the map size to teh smallest possible (that really tiny island) while i was having issues iwth the server useing up WAY too much processor time, and it SEEMS ot be stuck on that regardless of the numbers i input in the .cfg file
02:55<Gantradies> is there something im suppsoed to do to refresh the seed or soemthing?
02:58<Gantradies>anyoen up ofr hleping me try and owrk out WTH is happening here?
03:01<Gantradies>its driving me nuts, and ive got no idera what im oding wrong :(
03:02<Gantradies>*headdesks*
03:05<@peter1138>Don't edit the cfg file while it's running
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03:13<Eddi|zuHause><Gantradies> the short 4 letter one the console commands list and use to DL stuff fomr teh server <-- the 4 letter codes are usually expanded into 8 hex-digits (ASCII-encoding)
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03:17<Eddi|zuHause>Gantradies: oh, you mean the index number, no, that changes every time something new is uploaded
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03:23<Eddi|zuHause>Gantradies: on that last issue, there should be a "reload_config" command (or similar) that reads in the config after you changed it. exiting the game without this will restore the previous config, discarding all your changes
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04:39<Eddi|zuHause>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ruH8GGpvpU
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07:25<NGC3982>I'm hosting dedicated servers with separate files specified with the -c flag. 'reload_cfg' is set to true (on automatic year restart). If i change a parameter in the config file while the server is running, will the change be apparent next restart, and used thereafter?
07:25<NGC3982>I guess openttd loads the specified config file, and what i'm doing with my actual file should not affect the current running gameplay?
07:28<frosch123>yes, config only affects new games
07:29<NGC3982>I see. So changing the running config will simply make it change with the next server restart.
07:29<NGC3982>That's great if i want to make small changes between server restarts, i guess.
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08:48<Wolf01>moin
08:49<@Alberth>moin
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09:16<@Alberth>hi hi
09:17<LordAro>ih ih
09:17<andythenorth>any cat yet?
09:18<LordAro>all the cat
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09:27<andythenorth>hmm
09:27<andythenorth>loading speeds
09:28<andythenorth>are a big problem
09:30*NGC3982 struggles with timetables.
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09:38<andythenorth>what are timetables for?
09:40<@Alberth>giving you the option to waste lots of time with them?
09:40<Quatroking>oh my god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQO6V9FZGuI
09:41<@Alberth>theoretically, they should be able to nicely distribute vehicles over time, so you get regular visits of vehicles at some point
09:41*andythenorth has forgotten entirely the solution for loading speeds
09:41<andythenorth>:|
09:42<@Alberth>oh dear :(
09:42<@Alberth>check the log?
09:42<andythenorth>the internet will know
09:42<andythenorth>can’t remember the problem even :P
09:43<@Alberth>instant loading / unloading? :)
09:43<andythenorth>ha ha
09:43<andythenorth>maybe
09:43*andythenorth has mind-numbing back pain
09:43<andythenorth>and is running out of good painkillers
09:43<@Alberth>:(
09:45<andythenorth>I’ll live :P
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09:49*andythenorth wonders why loading speed isn’t just capacity / 6
09:49*andythenorth sets it to that
09:51<andythenorth>oh
09:51<andythenorth>I remember
09:51<andythenorth>there is no capacity in Iron Horse
09:51<andythenorth>just capacities
09:51<andythenorth>well
09:51<andythenorth>joy
09:53<@Alberth>just take the biggest one?
09:54<@Alberth>hmm, then smaller ones would load faster, maybe too fast
09:54<andythenorth>should just do it with cbs
09:54<andythenorth>not a lot of code
09:55<@Alberth>you can also use the average capacity as base line. cbs is probably best if capacities are far apart
09:57*andythenorth doing it now
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10:02<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
10:06<andythenorth>what’s the result of n / 0 in python? o_O
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10:07<@Alberth>ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero ? :)
10:09<andythenorth>yair
10:09<andythenorth>can’t put that in nml
10:09*andythenorth solves it
10:12<andythenorth>well
10:13<andythenorth>maybe that worked
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10:24<andythenorth>now to make some types faster
10:25<andythenorth>hopper cars are 2x faster to load than normal cars?
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10:29<@Alberth>anything non-instantly is fine by me :)
10:30<@Alberth>but yeah, it makes sense to differentiate on type of vehicle
10:30<andythenorth>2x should result in ~120 ticks
10:30<andythenorth>or 3 load steps
10:31<@Alberth>much like it is now, I think?
10:32<andythenorth>likely
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10:50<@planetmaker>hi hi
10:51<andythenorth>lo planetmaker
10:51<andythenorth>how’s snow CHIPS? :D
10:51<andythenorth>about same as before?
10:52<@planetmaker>yes :( RL interference messed with my schedule :(
10:52<@planetmaker>much less time than I anticipated
10:52<andythenorth>pesky RL
10:52<andythenorth>happens when you’re busy making plans
10:53<@planetmaker>yeah, indeed. I'm sorry to have you let down on that again :(
10:53<andythenorth>eh nvm :)
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11:01*andythenorth bbl
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13:21<@Alberth>o/
13:21<argoneus>\o
13:22<andythenorth>GS ideas?
13:22<andythenorth>santa claus GS
13:22<andythenorth>deliver to every town
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13:28<LordAro>*house
13:28<__ln__>m.d.
13:28<@Alberth>town is complicated enough :p
13:32<andythenorth>fun on small maps
13:32<V453000>get XX average production on your worker yards
13:33<V453000>could be fun :P
13:34<andythenorth>this issue sucks https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6711
13:34<andythenorth>I hate it like I hate hell
13:34<andythenorth>and all capulets
13:35<V453000>hm :)
13:35<V453000>I say it all the time
13:35<V453000>more cargoes, more loading stages = nice
13:35<V453000>nicer than more engines in many cases
13:35<V453000>doing one thing properly sounds better than 10 things halfway there
13:35<V453000>which is a perfect example of me atm
13:36<V453000>10 newGRFs in progress, all of them not done
13:36<@Alberth>more different looking cargo is more useful atm, I think
13:36<V453000>^
13:38<andythenorth>this is the last planned set of cargos
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13:38<andythenorth>then brit roster of Iron Horse is ‘done'
13:39<V453000>then the plan is bad ! :D
13:39<V453000>no excuses :P
13:40<andythenorth>plans can have v2
13:40<andythenorth>but what would it add?
13:40<andythenorth>yetis?
13:41<V453000>well sure yetis are an option, but I am more like talking about more various goods types, rubber, various hopper things like clay, copper ore, various kinds of heaps in hoppers, various tanker cargoes which are visibly distinct from each other, ...
13:43<andythenorth>hopper things are fine
13:43<andythenorth>somebody give me a list of missing bulk cargos, they get added
13:43<andythenorth>tankers, nah
13:45<V453000>well I have these https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/NUTS/MAG_HOPPER_0000.png
13:45<andythenorth>enormous spritesheet :D
13:45<andythenorth>still loading
13:45<V453000>basically, I make every single cargo have their own sprites
13:45<V453000>which does not mean that everything has to be unique, but in a single game it is, with any industry configuration
13:46<V453000>e.g. sugar from toyland also is sugarcane from FIRS
13:48<V453000>in the hoppers I have bauxite, candyfloss, clay, coal, copperore, fertilizer, grain, ironore, oil seeds, plant fibers, rubber, sand, scrap metal, stone, sugar, toffee, wool, recyclables, uranium
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13:52<V453000>on flatbeds: batteries, bubbles, fruit (various kinds), goods (many various kinds) - bricks, lumber, crates, glass, containers, ... - various sub-goods can be used for e.g. manufacturing supp/building materials/glass/bricks/barrels for e.g. rubber/oil/chemicals ... then I have food (various kinds), sweets (various again), livestock (VARIOUS ANIMALS! :D), paper, steel, toys, gold, diamonds, fizzy drinks, valuables, machinery(ES), wood, YETI d
13:53<V453000>rest on tankers ... cola, beer(fizzy drinks), chemicals, refined products, oil, plastic, water, milk
13:54<V453000>ask again what to add? :P
13:54*andythenorth does not have sufficient compulsion
13:54<andythenorth>even drawing these 800px for lumber bores the arse off me
13:55<andythenorth>I barely look at the trains most of the time when I play
13:55<V453000>XD
13:55<V453000>ok.
13:55<V453000>in that case make everything colourful boxes
13:55<V453000>no need to look at it
13:56<andythenorth>I can give you layered psds if you want to draw more IH cargos
13:56<andythenorth>the ducks would be cute in pixels
13:56<V453000>no ty
13:56<V453000>3D only
13:56<andythenorth>at NG wagon size
13:57<V453000>wtf is NG anyway
13:57<andythenorth>narrow gauge
13:57<andythenorth>tiny tiny
13:57<V453000>xd
13:57<andythenorth>about 3/8 long wagon
13:57<V453000>nice size
13:57<V453000>fits 8/8 nicely :P
13:57<V453000>4/8 ftw
13:58<andythenorth>agreed
13:58<V453000>I has cargoes like that in NUTS repo
13:58<andythenorth>but 3/8 is what was drawn
13:59<andythenorth>and I hate drawing
13:59<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/repository/entry/gfx/RailWagons_1st_Flatbed.png
13:59<V453000>well putting cargo on it probably wont matter if it is 4/8 or 3/8
13:59<andythenorth>someone just needs to paste all those cargos on now
13:59<andythenorth>problem solved
13:59<V453000>enjoy :P
14:00<andythenorth>if someone cares enough, they’ll do it :)
14:00<V453000>I use CC BY SA now btw, not gpl
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14:03<andythenorth>hmm
14:04<andythenorth>those wagons have wood now when loading at the forest
14:04<andythenorth>definitely better
14:04<andythenorth>compared to boxes
14:04<V453000>xd
14:06<andythenorth>problem for me is
14:07<andythenorth>I only do cargo sprites for cargos I see in game :P
14:07<V453000>lame :)
14:08<V453000>I never play with ECS, but I dont feel like the set would be complete if it had such holes like not specific sprites for every cargo
14:09<andythenorth>well
14:09<andythenorth>what can I say
14:09<andythenorth>maybe one day they’ll get done
14:11<V453000>XD
14:11<V453000>one day tm
14:14*andythenorth wonders which bulk cargos are missing
14:14<andythenorth>{'AORE': [0], 'IORE': [1], 'CORE': [2], 'GRVL': [3], 'SAND': [4], 'COAL': [5], 'CLAY': [6]}
14:14<andythenorth>probably lots
14:14<andythenorth>that’s just FIRS ones
14:15<V453000>well it depends what you transport where
14:15<andythenorth>in fact no scrap metal, no sugar beet
14:15<andythenorth>eh
14:15<andythenorth>meh
14:15<V453000>but often trains have same boxcars for goods, same for manufacturing supplies, same for food, same for fibre crops, same for fish, same for $otherthings
14:16<andythenorth>yes
14:16<@Alberth>yeah :(
14:16<andythenorth>because reasons
14:16<andythenorth>I find it looks stupid when they change appearance at stations
14:16<andythenorth>maybe I should get over that
14:16<@Alberth>but you have the precise model and version that was relevant at the time :)
14:16<andythenorth>but eh
14:17<andythenorth>I dunno
14:17<andythenorth>maybe it should just be primary colours
14:17<andythenorth>red for food, blue for fish, black for coal
14:17<V453000>exactly andythenorth
14:17<V453000>anything
14:17<V453000>colours are great differentiation tool as well
14:18<andythenorth>but then why bother making a train set?
14:18<andythenorth>it’s just arbitrary blocks moving around
14:18<V453000>because is nice :)
14:18<andythenorth>that’s quite appealing as a game
14:18<@Alberth>to let them drive on the tracks?
14:18<andythenorth>I don’t hate the idea, but it’s not the set I’m making
14:18<andythenorth>we need a tron-style set of grfs
14:19<@Alberth>we already have the debug vehicles by fr0sch for that :p
14:19<andythenorth>bare grid, everything bright-lit primary colours
14:19<andythenorth>terrain is black or dark grey
14:19<andythenorth>sea is midnight blue
14:19<@Alberth>black on white drawings?
14:19<V453000>XD
14:19<andythenorth>black on white is a style
14:19<andythenorth>I’m not trolling, these would be good styles
14:19<andythenorth>not planning it though
14:20<@Alberth>someone started it already afaik, but didn't get very far
14:20<V453000>sure, similar things are easy to make and could look nice when done as a whole
14:20<andythenorth>it would be trival to render I guess
14:20<V453000>but then making a whole base set is simply a shitload of work
14:20<andythenorth>probably do the whole thing, base set included in a year
14:20<@Alberth>but different colours cargo would not fit in that themse
14:21<@Alberth>*theme
14:21<andythenorth>you don’t need different houses or anything
14:21<V453000>it would Alberth
14:21<andythenorth>because it’s just representing flow
14:21<V453000>sure andythenorth but still 10 000 sprites is fucklots
14:21<@Alberth>oh, hard primary colours
14:21<andythenorth>so different types of buildings are meaningless
14:21<andythenorth>industries are just cubes
14:21<V453000>the buildings could differ in brightness slightly for nice thingz
14:22<andythenorth>brightness = demand
14:22<andythenorth>or production
14:22<V453000>I might do something like that after I create my base set models and code
14:22<V453000>then it would be really easy
14:22<andythenorth>you don’t need any detailed track or road sprites
14:22<andythenorth>they’re just lines
14:22<V453000>call it ultrazbase: nothing to see on purpose
14:22<andythenorth>everything is just flow, like circuit diagrams
14:22<@Alberth>it's much less than 10k
14:22<V453000>fucklots. :P
14:22<@Alberth>very few variations
14:23<frosch123>andythenorth: play factorio then :p
14:23<@Alberth>V453000: that's mathematically precise :)
14:23<V453000>yes!
14:23<@Alberth>/me likes the math of V :)
14:24<V453000>cant go wrong with it!
14:24<V453000>unless you are making a nml template ...
14:25<@Alberth>computers still lack knowledge of V math
14:25<V453000>am not sure when that is going to change :D
14:25<V453000> /if
14:26<@Alberth>probably around the time that neurological connections are standard :p
14:27<V453000>:(
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14:43<andythenorth>new horse
14:43<andythenorth>for christmas
14:44<V453000>:)
14:48<andythenorth>slow bundles
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14:54<andythenorth>what next?
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15:00<@Alberth>is there any advantage of using the box car vs the open car for food in iron horse (normal railways)?
15:01<@Alberth>box car seems heavier and more restrictive in choice of cargo
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15:16*andythenorth disconnected :P
15:16<andythenorth>Alberth: no advantage
15:17<andythenorth>if you have reefer cars, they have advantage
15:17<@Alberth>currently don't have them (1879, tropical)
15:18<andythenorth>yeah, ice in short supply :)
15:18<@Alberth>makes sense :)
15:19<andythenorth>it’s pretty much a visual thing, box car vs. open car
15:22<@Alberth>yeah
15:23<@Alberth>road hog is not in your sig :)
15:24<andythenorth>oops
15:25<andythenorth>thought I fixed that last week
15:30<@Alberth>gn
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17:06<Wolf01>'night
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21:34<argoneus>good night train amigos
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 21 00:00:50 2014