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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-12-28

---Logopened Sun Dec 28 00:00:01 2014
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00:56<Flygon>Dumb question: Has 'diagonal' railway platforms ever been discussed?
01:43<Supercheese>Yep, there is oooooooold patch for it
01:43<Supercheese>dunno if I have the link to it, I think it is petern's
01:57<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=841561#p841561
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03:04<andythenorth>o/
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03:16<Supercheese>Aloha
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03:53-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
03:54<Supercheese>aaand good night
03:54<@Alberth>gn
03:54<Supercheese>argh a spammer
03:54<Supercheese>ban that taylor user
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03:59<@peter1138>krtaylor? :p
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04:03<taylor>??
04:03<taylor>what
04:03<taylor>did someone here make lambos.info
04:03<taylor>?
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04:08<@peter1138>Never heard of it.
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04:17<@Alberth>andythenorth: hi hi, pushed a cargo type storage routine
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04:38<andythenorth>morning Alberth :)
04:38<andythenorth>so key value lists
04:38<andythenorth>and we were only iterating keys
04:38<andythenorth>or something, I don’t understand the Squirrel implementation
04:38<@Alberth>indeed
04:38<andythenorth>someone kban taylor
04:39<andythenorth>spam dms
04:39<taylor_>TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE
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04:39<taylor_>DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN
04:39<taylor_>LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN
04:39<taylor_>LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN
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04:39-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*@217.23.10.189] by peter1138
04:39-!-taylor_ was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [taylor_]
04:40<andythenorth>that’ll do it
04:40<@peter1138>Obviously never heard of the Streisand Effect.
04:41<andythenorth>Alberth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pmivrctnm not so much a spec as ‘notes to self’ I made last night :)
04:42<@peter1138>Anyone been able to review frosch's patch?
04:42<@peter1138>I don't really understand it all, just it looks a lot simpler to me.
04:42<@peter1138>(That sounds wrong)
04:43<@Alberth>it's on my todo list, but didn't get to it so far
04:44<@Alberth>looks good andy, I am working on trying to find a challenge for industries
04:44<@Alberth>something along the line find_challenge(cargo, desired_distance)
04:47<sla_ro|master>wtf
04:47<sla_ro|master>he spammed all other channels
04:50<@Alberth>andy, do you want specific pairs of source and destination? (not sure it's possible currently). I was thinking to find a destination only
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04:50<@Alberth>ie find a destination without any supplier nearby :)
04:51<andythenorth>Alberth: I think source / destination pairs are nice
04:51<andythenorth>but not essential
04:52<andythenorth>I thought there might be classes of goal (possibly literally classes in squirrel, encapsulating win / lose logic)
04:52<andythenorth>I wondered if subsidies are any use to us also
04:52<@Alberth>iirc you can monitor pickup and delivery, but whether the picked up cargo is also delivered at the right spot is not tracked afaik
04:53<andythenorth>makes sense
04:53<@Alberth>sure, having a 'goal' object makes sense
04:53<@Alberth>you noticed existence of GSGoal?
04:54<@Alberth>perhaps it's just something story-book ish
04:54<@Alberth>at least it doesn't look like it does anything by itself
04:58<@Alberth>afaik subsidies are quite hard-coded with a year to get it, and a year duration, maybe my contract ideas are of use? http://wiki.openttd.org/Alberth/Contracts
04:59<andythenorth>afaict GSGoal is how we put the goals into the ‘goals’ window
05:00<andythenorth>so far, I think story book (multi-page thing) is probably overkill for this
05:00<andythenorth>I guess source-destination pairs means tracking a lot of cargo packets
05:00<andythenorth>do packets even have origin stored?
05:04<@Alberth>yes, for payement purposes you need to know the origin
05:05<@Alberth>subsidies also check the origin
05:06<@Alberth>but cargo monitoring currently only tracks amounts of cargo
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05:07<andythenorth>nvm
05:08<andythenorth>work with what we have :)
05:18<@Alberth>andythenorth: pushed an algorithm for industry cargo challenges
05:18<@Alberth>based on distance only
05:18<@Alberth>probably we should also check production :)
05:23<@Alberth>:O towns also have production, that would be nice to unify challenge creation
05:32*andythenorth pulls
05:33<andythenorth>Alberth: I was thinking about production, wondering how to normalise required delivery amounts to cargo available on map (or such)
05:33<andythenorth>didn’t have an answer yet
05:35<@Alberth>just look at produced but not transported amount * 0.8 = max amount you can pull from the producer
05:36<@Alberth>assume X days / 10 tile distance + N months of that production + slack = deadline
05:37<@Alberth>0.8 may need to be lower at the start of the game due to money limits?
05:38<andythenorth>maybe
05:38<andythenorth>looks like a good time to make goals appear in the goal window
05:39<@Alberth>or we could make a slack long, and then change it based on your performance
05:39<@Alberth>euhm, I mean we could make the slack time quite long and ..
05:40*andythenorth going to poke at GSGoal
05:40<andythenorth>interrupted by children often
05:43<@Alberth>I guess we should build a list of sources and targets and maintain that through time
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05:44<andythenorth>for each goal? Or just generally?
05:45<@Alberth>generally, to create new goals from
05:46<@Alberth>maybe it's too complicated
05:46<@Alberth>mostly we need to know where to look for a source and a destination of a cargo type
05:47<@Alberth>that could be stored in the cargo type itself
05:49<andythenorth>probably just run the same calculation every time a new goal is needed?
05:49<andythenorth>won’t be that frequent, and the map changes
05:50<@Alberth>good idea
05:57<andythenorth>not sure what the intention of GSGoal::GoalType is http://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.4.4/classGSGoal.html#298dc2babd69afa3138b040645b67467
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06:04<@Alberth>looks like you can add a link to a game element?
06:05<andythenorth>seems so
06:05<andythenorth>not sure exactly what that achieves
06:05<andythenorth>anyway I’ve written ‘foo’ to the goal window :P
06:06<andythenorth>we need a convenient way to have current company in scope
06:06*andythenorth looks
06:06<andythenorth>Global Goals is possibly interesting
06:06<andythenorth>for collaboration
06:08<andythenorth>Zuu seems to keep a list of all companies in NCG
06:09<@Alberth>if you give companies goals, that makes sense
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06:24<andythenorth>GoalType seems significant
06:24<andythenorth>hmm
06:24*andythenorth pokes some more
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06:35<andythenorth>Alberth: so assigning goals to companies needs at least one company to exist
06:35<andythenorth>which isn’t true on first run of the GS
06:36<andythenorth>this.Sleep(1) is how frosch handled that
06:36<@Alberth>makes sense
06:36<@Alberth>eventually we need to make goals in the event loop
06:36<argoneus>good morning train friends
06:37<@Alberth>so maybe just skip creation if there is no company?
06:38<andythenorth>I pushed another useless proof of concept
06:38<@Alberth>ie in the 'while (true) { /* try make goal if needed */; /* do other things. */; sleep(...); }
06:38<andythenorth>there’s plenty of stuff in SV to borrow
06:38<andythenorth>so are our goals per-company or global?
06:38<andythenorth>in MP, if the goals are global, it’s a bit like capture the hill
06:38<andythenorth>first one to win the goal, wins the goal...
06:39<@Alberth>not in coop, is it?
06:39<andythenorth>not sur
06:39<andythenorth>sure *
06:39<andythenorth>thinking out loud
06:39<@Alberth>company goals would work for coop too
06:40<@Alberth>and coop between companies doesn't exist anyway :)
06:40<@Alberth>per-company looks like the most useful way to go, imho
06:41<@Alberth>no idea if cargo monitoring works per company, I do hope so :)
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07:21<Wolf01>hello o/
07:22<@Alberth>moin
07:25<andythenorth>cargo monitoring appears to be per company :)
07:27<@Alberth>yay, I was awake enough at the time :)
07:39<@Alberth>andythenorth: pushed
07:40<andythenorth>ho
07:40<andythenorth>towns
07:42<andythenorth>when I get an uninterrupted moment, I’ll hook the goals up to goal window
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08:33<__ln__>http://m.ad.nl/ad/m/nl/1014/Bizar/article/detail/3818824/2014/12/27/Met-een-luxe-tanktaxi-veilig-door-Sint-Petersburg.dhtml
08:36<@Alberth>007 style :p
08:57*andythenorth ponders
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09:15<@Alberth>andythenorth: pushed companies getting goals
09:19<andythenorth>Alberth: \o/
09:20<andythenorth>I was about to start on a company storage, you’ve saved me that :)
09:20<@Alberth>yw :)
09:24<andythenorth>looking at other GS, we might need a goals storage
09:24<andythenorth>not sure yet
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09:30<andythenorth>Alberth: if I push, are you in the middle of anything that will need merged?
09:31<andythenorth>(main.nut)
09:31<@Alberth>no
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09:31<andythenorth>pushed
09:31<andythenorth>goals are created now, in the goals window
09:31<andythenorth>there is a delay while it happens
09:32<@Alberth>my code creates one goal / day
09:32<andythenorth>ok that explains it
09:32<@Alberth>ie goal_timeout
09:34*andythenorth trying to show the destination in the goals
09:34<andythenorth>FindChallenge returns something that might be what I need?
09:35<@Alberth>accept has a "town" or "ind" field
09:36<andythenorth>ok
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09:48<andythenorth>ho single quote versus double quote is signifcant in squirrel :)
09:53<andythenorth>Alberth: goals window now shows destinations
09:53<andythenorth>I’ll see if I can pretty-print the cargo amounts and names
09:53<@Alberth>\o/
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10:07*andythenorth wonders where to look for the available string codes http://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.4.4/classGSText.html
10:27<@Alberth>eints documentation?
10:27<@Alberth>andythenorth: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/eints/nightlies/LATEST/docs/
10:38<andythenorth>ta
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10:58<andythenorth>hmm
10:58<andythenorth>stumbling on the string prettifying
11:17<andythenorth>hrm
11:17*andythenorth cargo cults
11:17<andythenorth>1 << cargo
11:17<andythenorth>as the parameter to string code {CARGO_LIST}
11:19<andythenorth>Alberth: I pushed some prettification
11:19<andythenorth>the cargo amounts have me stuck
11:19<@Alberth>{NUM} or so ?
11:19<andythenorth>yes
11:20<andythenorth>but if we could construct the right structure for the param, I think we can use CARGO_SHORT or such
11:20<andythenorth>frosch does afaict
11:20<andythenorth>we want the correct units, getting them manually will be silly
11:20<@Alberth>indeed, CARGO_SHORT looks like the right solution
11:21<andythenorth>the code I’m writing is ugly btw, can sort that out later
11:23<@Alberth>pushed preventing duplicate goals for a company
11:26<andythenorth>so much housekeeping :D
11:27<@Alberth>should it do that for all companies (as in, never give out the same goal to two or more companies?)
11:30<andythenorth>dunno
11:30<andythenorth>been thinking about that
11:31<andythenorth>if you force only unique goals, might run out of goals on a small map
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11:31<andythenorth>wondering about ‘try hard to prevent companies having duplicate goals, but give up after n tries'
11:32<@Alberth>you don't want to play 15 companies at 64x64 :p
11:32<andythenorth>is it easier to allow or disallow right now?
11:33<@Alberth>now, I only check within 1 company
11:33<andythenorth>leave it like that then
11:33<andythenorth>less work
11:33<@Alberth>so the check should be expanded to all companies
11:33<@Alberth>ok, let's leave it for now
11:33<@Alberth>someone will complain about it somewhen :)
11:40<andythenorth>v0.5 thing
11:40<andythenorth>what’s next? Cargo monitor & goal met function?
11:41<@Alberth>i guess so
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11:45*andythenorth tidies a bit of dead code
11:45<@Alberth>just delete it? :)
11:46<andythenorth>done
11:46<andythenorth>pushed
11:46<@Alberth>yay
11:55<@Alberth>pushed clicking at a goal
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12:06<glevans2>andythenorth: depending on how long a map is played, is there a point at which you would recycle previously completed goals, or maybe goals that were completed by another company?
12:08<andythenorth>dunno
12:09<andythenorth>they’d be completed
12:09<andythenorth>some might be hard to complete twice, others…not
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12:10<andythenorth>Alberth: neat :)
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12:29<andythenorth>Alberth: {CARGO_LONG} takes two parameter entries
12:29<andythenorth>pushed it
12:29<andythenorth>[cargo, amount]
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12:29<@Alberth>nice!
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12:30<andythenorth>oops, pushed a fix :)
12:39<@Alberth>feel free to add goal measurement code
12:39<@Alberth>I don't want to start doing that tonight
12:52<andythenorth>I might poke at it
12:52<andythenorth>or not
12:52<andythenorth>:)
12:53<andythenorth>so FMainClass::Start is the main loop?
12:54<@Alberth>the "while(true)" part at the end
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13:37<Jinassi>Has there been a scenario, where a player would get "Cant insert new orders. No more space for orders" prompt? I have never experienced such thing and had far more vehicles ingame than the player(~1k), who received such message. Still waiting for savegame to see wtf is going on. Sent a link to the forum too.
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>the limit is 256 entries
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>implicit orders may get you there if the route is a bit chaotic
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>the number of vehicles is irrelevant
13:44<Rubidium>or orders aren't shared
13:44<Jinassi>true, I advised on implicit orders too.
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15:42<NGC3982>I guess core2duo works out nicely for OpenTTD?
15:42<Jinassi>splendid
15:43<Jinassi>which one you have?
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15:43<NGC3982>I don't. I'm just browsing for give-aways in the server department
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15:56<Jinassi>Is vehicle parts limit of 65000 still in effect(part of an articulated vehicle (road/rail), 1 rail wagon/engine, the shadow of aircraft, the rotor of helicopters, the smoke from trains, all disaster vehicles)?
15:58<Jinassi>nvm me, found..bad gogle-fu
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16:40<@peter1138>core2duo is really ancient
16:42<FLHerne>peter1138: IMO, it's the earliest non-ancient thing
16:42<MTsPony>AMD64 is ancient :p
16:42<FLHerne>Big jump from the P4/PD, and unlike those still actually useful
16:44<FLHerne>Ironlake was incremental, as were IVB and Haswell, so it's only one big step behind old even now
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16:47*Taede still runs core2 duo/quad as main pc's
16:48<Taede>though the laptop is due to be upgraded to an i5-4
16:49<Taede>keeps up fine with most coop games though
16:49<FLHerne>I'm still using my actually-ancient PD desktop
16:49<FLHerne>Looking at Haswell i3s though
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17:02<Jinassi>well if he finds something better than core2duo in write-offs, i do hope he'll take it
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18:20<argoneus>nighty
18:22<Wolf01>night
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23:33<supermop>yo
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 29 00:00:02 2014