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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-01-03

---Logopened Sat Jan 03 00:00:10 2015
00:03<mek42>How do I dynamite a station that really is empty, has no trains ordered to go there, but still says, "Can't clear this area, train in the way?"
00:12<Supercheese>Clearly, there is indeed a train in the way
00:12<Supercheese>you must find where it is
00:12<Supercheese>However, you can try the Remove rather than Dynamite tool
00:12<Supercheese>Bulldozer icon rather than dynamite
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00:14<Supercheese>that'll remove the station piece by piece
00:15<mek42>Thanks, bulldozer worked, odd
00:15<mek42>no train
00:18<Supercheese>had you joined the station to another?
00:18<Supercheese>if you dynamite one piece, the whole station goes
00:18<Supercheese>err, train station*
00:18<Supercheese>you can join road/rail and if you dynamite one the other stays
00:19<Supercheese>but not so for rail
00:19<Supercheese>it's a quirk
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04:40<ShrewdSpirit>I'm new to OpenTTD. Just finished the tutorials on wiki
04:41<ShrewdSpirit>uh, are there more tutorials?
04:41<Supercheese>there is a tutorial gamescript
04:42<Supercheese>Let's see if I can remember how to activate it...
04:42<Taede>theres a few tutorial video's on youtube as well
04:42<ShrewdSpirit>I don't have access to youtube :( its blocked
04:42<Supercheese>In game main menu -> AI/Game Script Settings -> Check Online Content
04:43<Supercheese>or wait is that not it hmm
04:43<ShrewdSpirit>should I script my game?
04:43<Supercheese>Jeez where's the dang tutorial, I haven't used it in ages
04:43<Supercheese>oh it's under B for Beginner Tutorial, not T
04:44<Supercheese>yes, as before
04:44<Supercheese>In game main menu -> AI/Game Script Settings -> Check Online Content -> Beginner Tutorial - Game Script
04:45<ShrewdSpirit>I have downloaded the resource
04:45<Supercheese>I suppose you'll need to download the tutorial scenario as well
04:45<ShrewdSpirit>I have them all
04:45<Supercheese>Main menu -> Play scenario -> Beginner tutorial
04:46<Supercheese>presuming you've already downloaded it
04:46<ShrewdSpirit>its not there :( theres only one heightmap directory and a split(v2) scenario
04:46<Supercheese>then Check Online Content -> Beginner tutorial
04:47<ShrewdSpirit>yeah, theres a green circle right beside the content in there
04:47<ShrewdSpirit>but its not showing in scenarios
04:47<Supercheese>perhaps you're in the wrong directory
04:47<Supercheese>click the little Home icon
04:47<Supercheese>next to the Name | Date dropdowns
04:48<ShrewdSpirit>its not there
04:49<Supercheese>well I suppose the autodownload dropped it somewhere but the default directory isn't the same place
04:49<Supercheese>should be something like My Documents\OpenTTD\scenario (for Windows)
04:50<Supercheese>that looks correct
04:50<Supercheese>try Check Online Content again in that window
04:50<Supercheese>make sure the Beginner Tutorial of the category Scenario is downloaded
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04:52<ShrewdSpirit>the beginner tutorial is downloaded and I've found the tar file in OpenTTD\content_download\game
04:52<ShrewdSpirit>but idk why game cannot find the file
04:52<ShrewdSpirit>I've even copied the tar file into scenario directory
04:53<Supercheese>what about the scenario directory
04:53<Supercheese>rather than game
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04:53<Rubidium>ShrewdSpirit: it has found the tutorial gamescript, but you needed to download the tutorial scenario
04:53<Supercheese>there should also be Beginner_Tutorial-17.tar there (or some such)
04:53<Supercheese>yes that
04:54<Supercheese>should have started with the scenario, I was silly to have started by saying script :\
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04:54<ShrewdSpirit>ah, yes. the beginner tutorial scenario wasn't downloaded D:
04:55<ShrewdSpirit>thank you guys
04:55<Supercheese>all working?
04:56<ShrewdSpirit>yeah, I'm in tutorial now
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04:56<Supercheese>should be a decent tutorial, I haven't checked the updated versions
04:56<Supercheese>anyway, have fun :)
04:56<ShrewdSpirit>thank you :)
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05:10<ShrewdSpirit>what does it mean Aircraft4 has too few orders in the schedule? sorry my English is a bit weak
05:10<@Alberth>it should have 2 orders at least
05:10<@Alberth>you cannot transport anything if you visit only 1 airport
05:10<@Alberth>or no airport at all :)
05:11<@Alberth>ie add another airport where the aircraft should go to
05:11<ShrewdSpirit>I have two airports and four airplanes but it keeps giving me that message
05:12<@Alberth>two times the same airport perhaps?
05:12<@Alberth>or the same airport as the first and the last order?
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05:13<@Alberth>can you show it? screendump or savegame somewhere
05:13<ShrewdSpirit>no two of them has same starting airport
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05:15<ShrewdSpirit>how to take a screen shot?
05:16<@Alberth>ctrl+s ? no idea, tbh
05:17<@Alberth>works, but I need the orders of the aircraft
05:19<@Alberth>bottom one looks wrong
05:19<ShrewdSpirit>whats wrong?
05:19<@Alberth>you probably want to go to the airport rather than its hangar
05:20<ShrewdSpirit>:o yeah
05:20<@Alberth>ie you can visit the hangar to service the aircraft, without loading/unloading the passengers/mail
05:21<ShrewdSpirit>yeah, its done, thank you
05:21<@Alberth>yw :)
05:24<ShrewdSpirit>man, this game is awesome :p
05:39<skrzyp>What's the name of that OpenTTD UI font?
05:56<@Alberth>by default, it's a sprite font, which is part of the baseset you play with (probably opengfx)
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06:05<Wolf01>hi hi
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06:15<ShrewdSpirit>uh, sorry I bother you, but how can I deliver wood? :o
06:21<Elyon>forests are bunches of trees grouped together - plop down a station and a wood-carrying train?
06:21<Elyon>if in doubt, open the industry directory and sort by type -> find Forest
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06:24<ShrewdSpirit>yeah, thanks
06:25<@Alberth>open minimap, select industries (right button), hover on 'forest' in the legend at the left
06:25<@Alberth>forests will flash
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06:48<ShrewdSpirit>why doesn't cities allow me to build airports?
06:52<@Alberth>you can have 2 airports at a city
06:52<Wolf01>noise restriction, or city local authority wants you dead
06:52<@Alberth>or you destroyed too many trees around the city, and the council is annoyed by it
06:53<ShrewdSpirit>I removed all trees around the city :p
06:54<@Alberth>I usually buy the edge tiles so the city cannot build in it, and move to another city, until peace is restored
06:54<Wolf01>I remove trees from one side and plant them again on the other side
06:55<@Alberth>if you play with AI competitors, also buy a few tiles in the middle, so the AI cannot put its airport in the middle of your area :p
06:56<ShrewdSpirit>:o how to play with AI?
06:56<@Alberth>btw this also happens when you're building a station
06:59<@Alberth>start a new game, and setup competitors from the AI settings:
06:59<Elyon>this place is much more friendly than #c on freenode :p
07:00<ShrewdSpirit>isn't it possible to add AI's to current game?
07:00<ShrewdSpirit>I love my current map
07:02<@Alberth>don't know, can you select AI settings from the drop-down? (options, 3rd button from the left)
07:03<@Alberth>note that most things you change in a game stays within that game, it is not copied back to the main menu
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08:05<ShrewdSpirit>do AI's work automatically?
08:05<ShrewdSpirit>I've activated all AI's and nothing is moving in map :/
08:06<frosch123>they start after some time as long as there are free ai slots (maximum number of opponents)
08:07<frosch123>if you do not want to wait, open the in-game console and type "startai"
08:08<ShrewdSpirit>ah shit D: someone built an airport in my city D:
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08:27<ShrewdSpirit>is it possible to deliver stuff with airplanes? like coal and wood?
08:27<frosch123>depends on the aircraft set you are using
08:27<frosch123>sometimes you can refit them to cargo
08:27<frosch123>some even have specific cargo planes
08:27<FLHerne>ShrewdSpirit: Not with the default set, av8 has C-130s and various Antonovs and cargo helicopters
08:28<ShrewdSpirit>aha, thanks
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08:29<andythenorth>slow forum day is slow
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08:33<ShrewdSpirit>my stupid buses get lost all time >_<
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>av8 zeppelins are fun to serve oil rigs
08:34<@Alberth>ShrewdSpirit: quite likely you are missing a road piece somewhere
08:35<ShrewdSpirit>I don't think so D: one of the buses is turning around itself :/
08:36<LordAro>ShrewdSpirit: one-way piece?
08:36<ShrewdSpirit>lemme take screenshot
08:38<ShrewdSpirit>sorry for the spam D:
08:38<FLHerne>ShrewdSpirit: Your bus stop is inaccessible
08:39<FLHerne>In the first pic
08:39<ShrewdSpirit>it is
08:39<FLHerne>In all of them, even
08:39<FLHerne>Entrance is to the top-left, which isn't attached to anything
08:39<@Alberth>bus refuses to drive off into the green fields :p
08:40<ShrewdSpirit>the building is so small and I couldn't see the bus stop's gate
08:41<@Alberth>in the build window, the top-left sprite has its opening to the top-left, etc
08:43<LordAro>ShrewdSpirit: you're already at one zoom level further than the graphics were intended for :p
08:43<ShrewdSpirit>yeah right :D I fixed it
08:43<ShrewdSpirit>178 passengers waiting for me :p
08:44<@Alberth>oh, only 178? :)
08:44<ShrewdSpirit>in one bus station
08:44<@Alberth>yeah, try building one in the ciry, you'll have a few thousand very quickly
08:44<LordAro>pfft, it's not busy until there's more than 1000 people ;)
08:45<ShrewdSpirit>:O 1000 people ??? D:
08:45<LordAro>at least
08:45<@Alberth>2 or 3 thousand also happens
08:45<LordAro>realism isn't OTTD's speciality ;)
08:46<ShrewdSpirit>and does the city grow? I mean number of buildings
08:46<@Alberth>luckily, people aren't many pixels, so they all fit in the bus station :p
08:46<ShrewdSpirit>lol :D
08:47<@Alberth>click on the name of the city, you'll see grow speed
08:48<ShrewdSpirit>town grows every 38 days
08:48<@Alberth>so every 38 days, it will try to make a new road, or replace/add a building
08:49<LordAro>ShrewdSpirit: ingame days ;)
08:49<ShrewdSpirit>LordAro: ahaha :D ik
08:50<FLHerne>ShrewdSpirit: Adding stations (up to 5, I think) makes it grow faster.
08:51<FLHerne>As long as those stations are serviced every (month?), what you do with them doesn't matter
08:51<@Alberth>ugh, city baby-sitting :(
08:52<ShrewdSpirit>I have four stations, one airport and one train station
08:52<ShrewdSpirit>in current city of course
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09:00<ShrewdSpirit>breaking news: plane crash, 18 die in fireball at Confinghill airport
09:00<FLHerne>Small airport, big plane?
09:00<FLHerne>Otherwise, sometimes you just get unlicky
09:01<ShrewdSpirit>it was a darwin300 in small airport :p
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09:02<ShrewdSpirit>and just another train crash :/
09:05<@Alberth>trains don't crash, unless you're messing with signals, force trains to pass a red signal, or have mixed block signals and path signals
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09:14<ShrewdSpirit>haven't tried the signals yet
09:15<LordAro>how did you manage to get the train to crash then? or is the train crashing into vehicles?
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09:19<ShrewdSpirit>in an accident :D they just hit each other
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09:20<ShrewdSpirit>I forgot that another train is using the rail road and let another train use the same path
09:21<FLHerne>ShrewdSpirit: Signals are there for a reason :P
09:21<FLHerne>If you're using 'pass signal at danger' be very, _very_ careful
09:22<FLHerne>Also, ctrl-click on trains to stop them quickly
09:22<ShrewdSpirit>just divided their path
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes i think kamnet is either insane or just drunk...
09:38<@Alberth>maybe he's subscribed to the entire forum :)
09:38<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: what's he done now?
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>if i knew that...
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, i'm obviously missing a cultural reference... but beyond that...
09:42<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: that is indeed a thing
09:49<ShrewdSpirit>is it possible to change owner ship of a building?
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>depends on what level of "possible" you mean
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>or what type of building
09:50<ShrewdSpirit>like, I have an airport and I want to give it to another player
09:50<ShrewdSpirit>so he can add or remove airplanes
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>as a player, that is not possible
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>if you edit the savegame, or the game code, you can make a "neutral" airport (like oil rigs)
09:52<ShrewdSpirit>maybe I try to learn the scripting API
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>that probably won't be enough
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09:58<ShrewdSpirit>btw whats the close all windows hotkey?
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09:58<@Alberth>try it?
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09:59<@Alberth>oh, you're asking. backspace
09:59<@Alberth>hi hi andy
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10:08<Wolf01>o/ andy
10:08<LordAro>i thought it was delete?
10:08<glevans2>it is Delete key in debian at least...
10:09<glevans2>at least for any non-pinned windows...
10:09<Wolf01>for those you use the powerful shift+delete
10:10<Wolf01>or alt+f4 if you want to close the game window too
10:10<LordAro>Wolf01: or the power button on your computer
10:12<Wolf01>does nothing, I must keep it pressed for 6 seconds, but the it's not a hotkey anymore
10:12<NGC3982>What does shift+delete do in Windows?
10:13<mek42>Does cargodist work well?
10:13<Wolf01>closes all windows, also pinned ones, at least on my OTTD, but I could have bound it so when the feature came out
10:16<argoneus>NGC3982: rm -f
10:16<argoneus>or -rf
10:16<ShrewdSpirit>ah its delete on windows
10:16<NGC3982>Ah, i thought it had function in OpenTTD.
10:18<mek42>Hmmm... is there a mod that instead of a binary cargodist for other stuff (not pax / mail) applies a demand algorithm where certain destinations pay more / less for goods as an adjustment to base rate?
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: you don't use your power button for regular shutdown?
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>why not?
10:27<andythenorth>what is ‘regular shutdown’?
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: thing that properly unmounts your devices and stuff
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>it may come in handy when all other methods of UI fail
10:28<Wolf01>never had that problem
10:28<andythenorth>happens to me occasionally
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>i've had that multiple times recently, may be a graphics driver bug
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10:40<Wolf01>if my pc encounters a freeze error, or it restarts by itself in a couple of seconds, or it unfreezes, or I abuse the reset button... when it's unresponsive it wouldn't listen to a graceful shutdown
10:43<Wolf01>and if the UI is unresponsive, a couple of ctrl+alt+del, or win+L to pause all that it's doing is the quickest way I use to regain control
11:03<ShrewdSpirit>guys where should I deliver goods to?
11:04<LordAro>ShrewdSpirit: towns
11:05<ShrewdSpirit>ik, which building?
11:05<LordAro>be careful of the acceptance though
11:05<LordAro>it depends on the house
11:05<argoneus>ShrewdSpirit: just turn on highlighting and nail it down
11:06<ShrewdSpirit>but, what building should receive the goods? those normal houses that randomly spawn in towns?
11:07<LordAro>not exactly, but basically yes
11:08<Wolf01>usually blocks of offices accept goods
11:08<LordAro>you'll need several (4?) of the town houses that accept goods
11:08<Wolf01>use the query tool to know the acceptances of the single buildings
11:10<ShrewdSpirit>got it
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11:26<ShrewdSpirit>how to control the traffic? D: lots of vehicles are stuck in traffic
11:27<Wolf01>give them more space
11:27<Wolf01>maybe set one way roads too
11:28<Wolf01>I don't remember :D
11:29<ShrewdSpirit>these red guys have made too many troubles for me, the AI is taking all of the map :/
11:29<ShrewdSpirit>they have 224 road vehicles but I have 59
11:34<LordAro>ShrewdSpirit: very few AIs are setup for balanced play, unfortuantely
11:34<LordAro>ShrewdSpirit: which is it?
11:34<ShrewdSpirit>LordAro: its AdmiralAI
11:36<LordAro>mm, that's a strong one
11:36<LordAro>Yexo: be less afk :(
11:36<ShrewdSpirit>I'm orange
11:57<andythenorth>Yexo is AIRL
11:58<NGC3982>Alien in real life?
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12:01<Gantradies> err... bit of a stupid question,
12:02<Gantradies> is there any way to make it possible to, say, attach a heli(de)port to a normal (say, international/intercontinental) airport?
12:02<andythenorth>not a stupid question
12:02<Gantradies>damng :(
12:02<andythenorth>but airports can’t be joined
12:02<Gantradies> is it hardcoded?
12:03<andythenorth>there’s no code to permit joining them
12:03<Gantradies>*sigh* that sucks. allways wished there was a way to get more landing pads on non-heliport airports
12:04<FLHerne>Gantradies: Bus shuttle between terminals :P
12:04<FLHerne>With cargodist, that actually pretty much works
12:04<Gantradies>i have a tendency to make very large Hub stations, and extra helipads would be great to help with the gridlock that allways happens with the intercontinental airpots (wish the game would perminently assign 2 runways for landing and 2 for takeoff, ive sxeen some tragicly hilerious logjams)
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12:05<FLHerne>Passengers [and/or other cargo] with actual destinations rather than just getting off at the next stop
12:05<FLHerne>Makes networks mean something compared to random detached lines :-)
12:06<FLHerne>It's a setting, new in 1.4.0
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12:13<ShrewdSpirit>thank you again for your help. have a good night guys
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12:35<NGC3982>Let's say i have a scenario where i need to use two times the power of an engine to haul <cargo>
12:35<NGC3982>(Note, this is about real life)
12:35<NGC3982>Is there any practicality in having one of the engines in the back, or simply use both in the front of the set?
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12:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27110 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt spanish.txt) (2015-01-03 17:45:29 UTC)
12:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:45<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 1 changes by telanus
12:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 1 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
12:57<andythenorth>NGC3982: definitely about RL?
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12:57<andythenorth>if your train is long enough, you get much better train-handling characteristics by distributing power
12:57<andythenorth>you’re less likely to break a knuckle
12:58<andythenorth>if you do break a knuckle on a grade, you don’t lose the back of the train down the grade
12:59<andythenorth>and with smart distributed power (DPU) control, some of your units can be applying power (pushing or pulling up-grade), whilst others are in dymanics (braking parts of the train which are on a down-grade)
13:01<andythenorth>in europe trains aren’t big enough to worry about it
13:02<andythenorth>it’s a factor in North America, Australia
13:03<andythenorth>the other factor is for PAX trains, or unit freight trains running in and out of dead end terminals
13:03<andythenorth>a unit at either end makes for ‘driver changes cab’ switching operation
13:03<andythenorth>rather than having to have run-round or pull back
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause>in case of high speed electric trains, having the pantographs further apart allows for higher speeds, because you don't have to worry as much about waves in the catenary
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>that is, unless you have a high voltage line through the train and don't need two pantographs up anyway
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>also, some train designs distribute the power under the wagons, not a dedicated engine, leaving more space for passengers
13:38<Wolf01>bah, my scumbag brain forgot the title of a space b-movie and I can't find it on google
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think we can help you with that given the current information
13:39<Rubidium>Star Wars episode 1-3 ?
13:42<Wolf01>it was a rant about my brain, but if you ever want to help him, he remembers about a mining/refinery colony under attack of drone interceptors, the colony was defended by a bunch of pilots and their navigators in the control tower
13:42<Rubidium>having said that, according to wikipedia a grade B is 80-89 on a scale of 0 to 100... so there are, based on IMDB, no A grade space movies
13:43<__ln___>Wolf01: made in the past 5 years?
13:43<Wolf01>then it's C grade, and the year span is about 1980-1995
13:43<NGC3982>Oh my.
13:44<NGC3982>Let me find that for you in the library of one million movies that fit that category.
13:44<Wolf01>I'm already browsing that section :)
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but "b-movie" is not about how good the movie is. it's about how much budget went into it
13:46<Wolf01>oh, brain gave another hint: the "hero"'s navigator was a toxic boy, IIRC all the navigators were boys
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: the term comes from "double feature" presentations, where there was usually a higher-budget "a-movie" and a lower budget "b-movie"
13:47<@peter1138># science fiction, double feature
13:48<NGC3982>Hey, i know that one
13:48<NGC3982>That was on TV recently
13:48*NGC3982 joins the operation.
13:49<Rubidium>which channel?
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14:10<y2000rtc>Hi everybody. Sorry for disturbing but I would like to ask for something.
14:11<@Alberth>don't apologize, it's fine to just dump the question here
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>it's kinda difficult to answer if you don't actually ask the question
14:11<@Alberth>unless the answer is 42
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>it was the gardener
14:12<LordAro>with the candlestick
14:13<y2000rtc>Is it possible to decompile (open) newgrf file? I'm from Czech republic and I'm using newgtf file for czech's trains. There are some mistakes and I would like to change something in parameters for more realistic play.
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes, with grfcodec, but it's probably easier if you ask the original authors for the code
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>you can also (in a limited way) provide an add-on NewGRF without decompiling
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14:14<y2000rtc>I play OpenTTD from 0.5 version but I didn't find possibility for change grf file.
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>depending on what you want to change
14:14<@Alberth>for personal use is not a problem. If you want to distribute the changed version again, you need to do more
14:15<@Alberth>it's not part of openttd, grfcodec is a separate program
14:15<y2000rtc>Don't you knoe who is author for czech trains? I didn't find it.
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>there used to be a czech forum, or so
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>they did all sorts of stuff
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>and the author is probably known to the site where you downloaded it from
14:17<y2000rtc>I understood. I can try to use grfcodec.
14:17<y2000rtc>I have this grf 10 years ago. I don't remember. :)
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14:18<y2000rtc>I will try to find him again.
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>like i said, if you want to change stats (speed, etc.), an add-on GRF may be possible, but changing graphics would be trickier
14:19<@Alberth> ?
14:21<y2000rtc>Thank you community ;) I would like to change only parameters. Graphic is more than ok. :) Thx for link.
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: that's probably a different set
14:21<@Alberth>yeah, the year is wrong
14:22<y2000rtc>Yes I checked it and this set is something new.
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>y2000rtc: for changing speed etc. all you need is the ID of the vehicle you want to change. and this:
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14:26<y2000rtc>Perfect, link is saved. Next point is year of production. Because yhere are several different graphics for one locomoyive and now is possible to use only one in specific year. It's a pitty.
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14:28<y2000rtc>Another topic. Is it possible to buy original TTD from Chris Sawyer? I would like to have this game officialy. In OpenTTD I have graphics files from TTD
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>not that i know of...
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>there were copies on sale on ebay but it always looked kinda suspicious
14:31<y2000rtc>Yes, you are right. I saw it on ebay but there wasn't chance to buy.
14:31<@Alberth> <-- says to contact Microprose
14:32<@Alberth>hopefully it's not the new transport tycoon
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14:33<y2000rtc>I know but I don't need something new if I have OpenTTD. I play it on PPC Win2003SE, Android and PC. Many thanks to all for it. Great Job.
14:34<y2000rtc>But for future I would like to have some changes. ;)
14:38<y2000rtc>Only in czech graphics files for more realistic game. I play with graphics around rail, stations have more than one depot,... For nicer terain.
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14:38<y2000rtc>Only in czech graphics files for more realistic game. I play with graphics around rail, stations have more than one depot,... For nicer terain.
14:41<y2000rtc>Ok people, a lot of thanks again. I will try to use grfcodec and I will search author of csdseto.grf file. Have a good night.
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14:53<Eddi|zuHause>"german government now thinks that greece can safely exit the euro without dragging the rest with it"
14:54<V453000> is 256*124 correct for x4 zoom - size of one tile?
14:54<V453000>I thought it is 256*127?
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>no, it is 31*4
14:54<V453000>so 124
14:54<V453000>wtf do I have wrong XD
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>the edges also have to be jagged somewhat to avoid glitches with x1 zoom graphics from the next tile
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>basically, you need to draw over a 4x zoomed x1 sprite, you cannot smoothen the edges
14:57<V453000>is anywhere a silhouette of the sprites in x4?
14:57<V453000>like, the hard edge they should have?
14:58<V453000>or is there any way to get them?
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>like i said, take a x1 sprite and enlarge it 4 times
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>every non-transparent pixel in that must be covered by your x4 sprite
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15:15<frosch123>V453000: don't listen to eddi :p
15:15<frosch123>noone said that 4x ground sprites should have hard edges
15:16<frosch123>specifically the existing extra zoom base sets do not do that
15:16<frosch123>that it is a silly idea to do so
15:18<frosch123>V453000: anyway, the only thing that is set in stone is that flat ground tiles have a distance of 128x64 between north corners of neighbouring tiles
15:18<frosch123>the rest is freely defined by the baseset
15:19<frosch123>that is, if you choose to make flat tiles with width 256, you will likely end up with height 127
15:20<frosch123>since in row 128 the neighbouring tiles touch
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15:23<Eddi|zuHause>well in the quadrupled x1 sprite scenario, the northern and southern corners wouldn't touch, there would be a 4px wide gap that would be filled by the eastern and western tile
15:24<frosch123>yes, but it is a stupid thing to make zig-zag edges
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>and if you assume a complete x4 set, you don't need the jagging, but you cannot guarantee that, because industries and houses may provide their own ground sprites
15:25<frosch123>that idea comes from trying to make grfs with different zoom levels look nice with each other
15:25<frosch123>but truth is, that will never look nice with each other
15:25<frosch123>so, it is better to make proper edges
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>and if you make an industry or house set, then it's even worse
15:25<frosch123>since that looks best with all zi4 sprites
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>well, maybe you could make it look alright if you can make sure that these jagged pixels are part of the grid
15:43<Gantradies>*mumbles something incoherent aobut "vaccum train upkeep, then collapses into a deshevled heap*
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16:29<@Alberth>andythenorth: is squid supposed to work in toyland?
16:30<@Alberth>(it seems it's not, just asking whether that is intended)
16:30<V453000>ok so basically nobody knows =D frosch123
16:32<frosch123>V453000: basically, don't bother about the height :p
16:32<frosch123>everyone agrees about the width
16:33<frosch123>then you only need to pick an edge shape
16:33<frosch123>either 2x1 steps, or 8x4 steps
16:33<frosch123>the height is then a result of the width and the steps
16:35<Elyon>width is 255.5px, height is sqrt(2)px
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16:40<frosch123>V453000: ideally you would try both edge shapes, compare them, write a blog about it, and then call everyone stupid who does not agree :)
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17:50<mek42>What is auto-refit?
17:50<Supercheese>otherwise known as refit-in-station
17:50<Supercheese>so you can pull up with wagons for one cargo, unload, then load a different cargo in them
17:50<Supercheese>or whatnot
17:51<Wolf01>never seen that working
17:51<Supercheese>the newgrf set has to support it, of course
17:52<Wolf01>1055 grfs and no one which has it?
17:56<FLHerne>Wolf01: Most of the train grfs do now, AFAIK?
17:57<Wolf01>it's always greyed out for me, maybe I chose the wrong wagons
17:58<mek42>ah, gotcha - that would sure be handy
18:11<@planetmaker>Wolf01: most train grf do not support that generically but only from some cargoes to some other cargoes
18:12<@planetmaker>Wolf01: you might try nuts which has a universal wagon (besides other wagons, of course). ogfx+trains has station refit, but doesn't allow that for everything, but more "realistically"
18:20<Wolf01>good to know
18:28<NGC3982>I'm so bored.
18:29<Wolf01>I gave up the quest for that movie title
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18:36<mgpl>machines are coming ;)
18:38<Wolf01>it would be nice as full hd wallpaper
18:39<mgpl>black/white version -
18:40<mgpl>from this guy -
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18:52<Eddi|zuHause>a) red lights would usually mean they're going AWAY, and b) i never understood this thing about intentionally destroying pictures by removing colour...
19:01<Wolf01>my boss always tell to who shows him bw pictures "if you want to take a picture in bw, make sure the subject is already bw"
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19:38<mek42>where do I go to review when various ogfx+trains become available?
19:40<Supercheese>You mean release dates for the locomotives?
19:40<Supercheese>Aren't they the same as default engines?
19:41<mek42>and regarding B/W stills, sometimes color distracts from the composition / sometime you want to compose / capture the way it was done before color
19:41<mek42>I don't know when the default stock is released either
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19:47<mek42>When do people decide to use trams rather than road vehicles?
19:48<NGC3982>It usually becomes more profitable
19:49<frosch123>trams should have higher capacity
19:50<frosch123>if they do not have a higher capacity in the set you are using, just ignore them
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22:05<mek42>Had to reboot. Read some things on smart phone while waiting. Does current TTRS stop the pre-1930 town shrinkage behavior?
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 04 00:00:11 2015