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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-01-06

---Logopened Tue Jan 06 00:00:14 2015
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06:19<__ln___>clock stop
06:20<__ln___>is that bad?
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>only if it stops beyond the launch window
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06:54<dreck>hi ladyhawk
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07:06<LadyHawk>hello dreck
07:07<dreck>hows you?
07:08<LadyHawk>i'm ok, headache but it'll fade
07:08<LadyHawk>how are you?
07:08<LadyHawk>coffee is in the coffee machine =)
07:08<dreck>hope you get better soon :-s
07:08<dreck>and I'm doing ok for now
07:09<LadyHawk>thank you
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07:10<alluke>didnt sleep at all last night
07:10<alluke>sleep is for pussies
07:12<LadyHawk>sleep is my friend
07:12<LadyHawk>over the holiday period i was sleeping from 2am-2pm
07:13*LadyHawk is apparently a pussy
07:14<@peter1138>Coffee in the machine is in the wrong place :-)
07:15<LadyHawk>it's in my cup sitting next to me now
07:15<LadyHawk>im working on it!
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07:18<alluke>i stay awake with the magic of coffee
07:18<alluke>hopefully the coffee lasts till 21 00
07:18<LadyHawk>i do that at work
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>i have a holiday...
07:19<LadyHawk>when i'm at home i dont tend to drink coffee after like 8pm
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>and i don't have a coffee addiction anyway
07:19<LadyHawk>feels wrong to go to bed buzzing on coffee =P
07:19<alluke>got my new licence yesterday
07:19<alluke>BE C1E C
07:20<alluke>driver's licence
07:21*LadyHawk checks hers
07:22<LadyHawk>those codes are very different from mine
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07:22<alluke>where do you live
07:22<LadyHawk>i dunno what they mean =)
07:22<alluke>those should be in use in whole europe afaik
07:22<alluke>at least in eu
07:23<LadyHawk>they may just not be on mine.. older licences here have a wishlist of codes on them but the newer card licences only have a few
07:23<LadyHawk>i have a newer one
07:23<alluke>you prolly have B?
07:24<alluke>what the hell are those
07:24<LadyHawk>that's what i thought looking at yours
07:24<LadyHawk>b cars
07:24<LadyHawk>b1 vans & people carriers up to 6 i think
07:24<LadyHawk>fkp muppets n stuff
07:24<alluke>be = car and trailer
07:25<alluke>c1e light truck and trailer
07:25<alluke>c heav truck
07:25<LadyHawk>ohh, those are nice
07:25*dreck has class 1, 3, 4B, 5, and 6D in name of quebec :)
07:25<LadyHawk>that's a seperate test here that's quite pricey
07:25<LadyHawk>to get those codes on the licence
07:25<LadyHawk>well done =)
07:25<alluke>i got those all for free
07:27<LadyHawk>if i had had an older licence i would also be able to drive tracktors and weird things like that
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07:27<Eddi|zuHause>well, usually you get the company you work for to pay for the C license
07:27<alluke>i got my licences from army where i served for year
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: any particular reason for not CE?
07:28<alluke>in civil world theyd cost many tons
07:28<alluke>only the best ones were chosen to CE course
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, if you have an army license, you can get the test cheaper
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>or rather, you can skip most of the expensive lessons
07:29<alluke>oh how i miss the army trucks
07:29<alluke>they were fun as fuck
07:29*peter1138 has B, BE, C1, C1E, D1 and D1E. And fklnp.
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>don't you have to renew the bus and truck licenses like every 5 years?
07:30<alluke>i have to i suppose
07:30<alluke>the card expires in 2019
07:31<@peter1138>No. C1 is only up to 7500 kg.
07:31<@peter1138>D1 is only a minibus.
07:32<alluke>what was the max seats for d1
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but transporting more than 8 people commercially...
07:32<@peter1138>For full truck and bus, yeah, they need renewal, I'm sure.
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i have only B (and ML, which is mopeds and agricultural vehicles)
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07:33<@peter1138>alluke, 16.
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07:33<@peter1138>code 101 - not for hire or reward
07:33<alluke>i want to buy a bus and turn it into a c-licence camper / bar / strip club
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>with C you can drive a bus, it may just not have more than 8 passengers at a time
07:34<alluke>not anymore
07:34<alluke>the wise people in eu changed that
07:34<@peter1138>Bus is D.
07:34<@peter1138>Large vehicles is C.
07:34<@planetmaker>I probably would get B, BE, C1 and C1E would I apply to get my license re-written
07:34<alluke>you cant drive even empty bus anymore with c
07:35<alluke>unless you screw the seats off
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: you still have 3?
07:35<alluke>and register it into a truck
07:35<@peter1138>Cat D is 8 passenger seats, not passengers.
07:35<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, yes
07:35<@planetmaker>the pinkish license
07:36<V453000>planetmaker: which license letter is for planets? :P
07:36<@planetmaker>that's p
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, they were already phased out when i was old enough
07:36<@peter1138>I got my license just a few months before they stopped adding on so many categories by default.
07:36<alluke>which licence is for unicorns
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07:37<@planetmaker>my license is from 1994... so yeah, old git :P
07:37<@peter1138>94... didn't realise you were that old
07:37<V453000>he is ten times older than you might ever imagine
07:38<alluke>back in 94 i was sucking tits
07:38<@planetmaker>not quite beluga-ish :P
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07:39<@peter1138>Mine is '96
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>it's only 6 years older than mine
07:39<LadyHawk>mines 19.12.08
07:40<LadyHawk>with a 'wtf' story attached to it
07:41<LadyHawk>got it just before christmas, lessons with the AA, 'almost ready' since march but refused to give me a mock test, went on went on.. bf went mad, suddenly the AA had no driving instructors in my area.. went to a different driving school which gave me 2 free hours to see how far i was
07:41<LadyHawk>and i was told... why haven't you done ur test yet.. so i took the test
07:41<LadyHawk>passed with 1 minor
07:42<LadyHawk>apparently, since driving instructors are self employed, they want to try and 'stretch' your lessons on till after the holidays so they got some money
07:42<alluke>drifting trucks is one of the best things you can do with your pants on
07:43<LadyHawk>big places like the AA may seem great, but apparently, not
07:44<LadyHawk>i'd like to learn how to drift one day
07:44<alluke>its easy
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>what's an AA?
07:44<alluke>just floor it in curve and countersteer if neessary
07:44<alluke>thats how i did it
07:45<alluke>worked with 4wd lr defender too
07:45<LadyHawk>the AA is a very big company that sorts out driving lessons/road side breakdown/insurrance/whole heap more
07:45<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, possibly the automobile association?
07:45<LadyHawk>so how do you drive in a front wheel drive
07:45<LadyHawk>that weighs as much as a balloon?
07:46<alluke>havent tried
07:46<alluke>but watch tiff needels videos in youtube
07:46<LadyHawk>full lock and slam the accelerator doesn't work
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>a balloon doesn't weigh anything, hence it floats...
07:46<LadyHawk>just get massive understeer
07:47<LadyHawk>assuming you can get the wheels to stop spinning anyway
07:47<alluke>watch and learn
07:47<alluke>and surprise your friends next time theyll ride in your car
07:47<LadyHawk>OMG ford puma? i drive that haha
07:47*LadyHawk watches
07:47<alluke>perfect :D
07:47<LadyHawk>silver too XD
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07:49<@peter1138>Heh, the handbrake turn... not gonna work.
07:49<alluke>why not
07:50<@peter1138>Cos my handbrake works on the front ;p
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>i never felt the need to try out these things
07:51<@peter1138>Pretty stupid stuff to do on public roads.
07:51<alluke>wtf is the point for that
07:51<alluke>gear locks the front wheels
07:51<alluke>hb rear
07:53<@peter1138>It allows the handbrake to be used as an emergency brake.
07:53<LadyHawk>that guy in that video just said if u try to drift you 'get nothing but understeer, understeer and more boring understeer' then he sais 'so u gotta do it like this!' haha
07:53<@peter1138>That's not "that guy"
07:53<LadyHawk>understeer, yes noticed
07:54<@peter1138>That's Tiff Needell.
07:54<LadyHawk>understeer even in roundabouts
07:54<@peter1138>How old are you?
07:56<@peter1138>Oh well.
07:57<@peter1138>Was a Top Gear presenter.
07:57<@peter1138>And a racing driver.
07:57<LadyHawk>i watch top gear
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>i don't.
07:57<LadyHawk>only ever seen those 3 numpties, never him
07:58<@peter1138>Proper Top Gear, not Jemery Clarkson's Comedy Show.
07:58<@peter1138>Jeremy, even...
07:58<LadyHawk>then i dont watch top gear =)
07:58<@peter1138>(Jeremy was in the original Top Gear, mind you.
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08:00<alluke>my library got its 200th song yesterday
08:00<@peter1138>Okay, they had some weird clips...
08:00<@peter1138>Potato quality :s
08:01<LadyHawk>:O @ james may
08:02<LadyHawk>haha he's so young there, never seen him like that XD
08:02<@peter1138>Looking very young.
08:02<alluke>today they all have grey hair
08:10<alluke>wish i had money
08:13<@peter1138>For an old crappy Ford? :s
08:14<alluke>aint she pretty little thing?
08:20<LadyHawk>that's the kinda car i want
08:20<LadyHawk>but a second gen toyota mr2 manual will do, too
08:22<alluke>it can kill you
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>i had a ford escort the past 2 years
08:23<LadyHawk>i tend to drive with the heater on full at my feet, with the windows open slightly
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>now i have a golf... my cars seem to get older in every incarnation
08:26<LadyHawk>this ford puma i drive is my 2nd car
08:26<LadyHawk>my first car was a ford mondeo mark 1.. the only mondeo that had 4wd
08:26<LadyHawk>i loved that thing
08:26<LadyHawk>made snowdriving seem so easy
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>wtf do you need 4wd for?
08:26<LadyHawk>nobody believed me when i said it was a 4wd
08:27<LadyHawk>till the scrap note confirmed it was a mark1
08:27<LadyHawk>the car was £100 when i bought it
08:27<LadyHawk>i wasn't complaining
08:28<LadyHawk>was a good condition too
08:28<LadyHawk>the car started falling apart, the cooling pipes, exhaust, etc.. but the engine, the heart of that car baffled any engineer working on it & mot testers alike cuz of its good condition
08:29<LadyHawk>didn't realise when i bought it that it was 4wd, till i did research on it afterwards
08:30<LadyHawk>i figured it was front wheel drive like the rest of the mondeos
08:30<alluke>why the fuck did you scrap 4wd mondeo??????
08:30<LadyHawk>because a jack went through the back window, the bonnet and the boot
08:30<LadyHawk>and the side window but that didn't break
08:31<LadyHawk>i never wanted to scrap it
08:31<LadyHawk>i loved that car
08:31<alluke>those are rare
08:31<alluke>did it drift well on snow
08:31<LadyHawk>never tried
08:32<LadyHawk>snow driving was insanely easy, my drive is on a big slope, that car was the only one to be able to get up there easily, while most, can't get up at all
08:32<alluke>thats what you buy r/4wd car for
08:33<LadyHawk>i can get a front whee ldrive up there, after a few attempts with a runup
08:33<LadyHawk>but it's hard
08:33<LadyHawk>i gtg to shop & get ready for work
08:34<LadyHawk>on the bright side though
08:34<LadyHawk>i got £250 for scrapping it
08:35<alluke>the parts alone are worth more
08:35<LadyHawk>my old mondeo
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12:42<NGC3982>Oh my.
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12:43<NGC3982>That link crached IE for me. :()
12:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27114 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2015-01-06 17:45:49 UTC)
12:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
12:46<@DorpsGek>catalan - 2 changes by juanjo
12:46<@DorpsGek>danish - 2 changes by Gankenstein
12:46<@DorpsGek>spanish - 5 changes by juanjo
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13:04<Elyon> teaser
13:06<@planetmaker>yet another programming language for newgrfs?
13:06<Elyon>it's just stations
13:06<Elyon>and it's just python
13:07<andythenorth>it’s not miles away from how I do FIRS
13:08<@Alberth>every run gives a unique newgrf? :)
13:08<Elyon>haha no
13:08<Elyon>the library seeds the rng
13:09<Elyon>ah :)
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13:12<frosch123>Elyon: i guess if you use nml.OutputGRF and derive some new class from nml.actions.BaseAction you can use the nml grf encoder
13:12<frosch123>including sprite cache and stuff
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13:12<Elyon>frosch123: oh that's an interesting idea
13:13<@Alberth>andythenorth: configurable goal timeout length
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13:13<andythenorth>ho ho :)
13:13<Elyon>frosch123: so I just get nml source and dig in?
13:13*andythenorth needs to get back onto ottd stuff
13:13<andythenorth>I shipped some grfs and then stopped for a bit :P
13:14<@Alberth>christmas is done :)
13:14<andythenorth>tax return less so
13:14<@Alberth>hmm, sounds useful to spend time on :)
13:14<@Alberth>depending on howm "return" you get
13:15<@Alberth>*how much
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13:16<frosch123>Elyon: i guess you can take and remove everything that deals with the nml syntax. i guess starting from line 281 you can reuse stuff
13:17<frosch123>at that point there is a list of actions
13:17<Elyon>I'll definitely look into it
13:17<frosch123>you probably need to reuse RealSpriteAction
13:17<frosch123>but for the pseudo sprites you can likely just create a new derived class
13:17<Elyon>frosch123: thanks a lot for the insights
13:22<andythenorth>wow, over a year since last FIRS update
13:22<andythenorth>where did that time go?
13:22<andythenorth>and nothing planned on FIRS either
13:22<andythenorth>that set is dead maybe?
13:23<@planetmaker>maybe 'done'
13:24<andythenorth>about the same
13:24<andythenorth>‘no longer of interest to its authors’
13:28<@Alberth>yeti is the new kid on the block
13:30<andythenorth>maybe it’s a competition :)
13:31<@Alberth>who's best in 5 randomly selected categories?
13:32<andythenorth>dunno, I never saw industry sets as a competition
13:32<andythenorth>maybe I should :P
13:36<@Alberth>write a game script for coding goals?
13:41<Elyon>mistakes were made
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13:46<@Alberth>where would be the challenge, otherwise? :)
14:11*andythenorth could use a bit less of that kind of challenge :P
14:11*andythenorth makes a lot of mistakes
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15:54<Elyon>well well nml
15:55<frosch123>does it rhyme?
15:55<Elyon>it duz!
15:55<Elyon>so yeah, working my way through repurposing the nml module for my own diabolical ends
15:56<Elyon>there's a lot of strictness involved compared to my little thingie :p
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15:56<Elyon>I can't just write `0`
15:56<Elyon>I have to write `expression.ConstantNumeric(0)`
15:56<frosch123>yeah, every expression has a Position assigned
15:56<frosch123>for error messages
15:57<Elyon>it's neat
15:57<Elyon>a bit unwieldy, but the GRF developer needs not know of these anyway
15:58<Elyon>makes sense, really. I find an often-occurring proportionality between framework 'ease-of-use', and framework complexity
15:59<Elyon>also, while I've been developing with ruby for a good 6 years, python doesn't seem too bad
15:59<Elyon>except regex syntax, yuck
16:00<frosch123>aren't all regex pcre these days?
16:00<frosch123>does ruby do something else?
16:00<Elyon>ruby has regex as a built-in type
16:01<Elyon>'0xdeadbeef'.match(/0x([0-9A-Fa-f][0-9A-Fa-f]*)/)[1] => 'deadbeef'
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16:01<V453000>XD that line makes me shiver
16:02<frosch123>that's not too different to python, is it?
16:02<Elyon>does python support the // syntax?
16:02<Elyon>/<regex>/<config> I mean?
16:03<V453000>idk, when I see the various unreadable characters it just creates some strange laughter inside :D
16:03<frosch123>re.match('0x([0-9A-Fa-f][0-9A-Fa-f]*)', '0xdeadbeef')[0]
16:04<V453000>yeah that XD
16:04<frosch123>no, python uses classes instead of special operators
16:04<frosch123>it already has 3 levels of generic string quotations
16:04<frosch123>no need for another / quotation mark
16:04<Elyon>it's not an operator, it's a delimiter
16:04<Elyon>and regexes aren't strings
16:05<Elyon>imho I like how ruby/js has regex as a builtin
16:05<frosch123>your line from above does look the same to me as in python
16:05<frosch123>just the order of pattern and string are swapped
16:06<frosch123>and python uses string quotation instead of a special /
16:06<Elyon>match "\dx" for me then :p
16:06<Elyon>nah, it gets unwieldy with escapes when regexes are strings imho
16:06<frosch123>python has 3 different quotation marks to choose from
16:06<frosch123>that's way easier than /
16:08<frosch123>esp. with the triple """ marks you never run into any escape issues
16:08<Elyon>I prefer /<re>/<cfg>, but that may just be my penchant for vim that does it
16:08<Elyon>hmm that's true actually.
16:08<frosch123>when using sed or awk in scripts you can always pick a custom escape character, but with inserting shell variables it always fails in some case :p
16:09<Elyon>I don't see how any of them are easier than `/` though. anything delimited by two `/` is inherently a regex, whereas in python you have to be explicit with the re module
16:09<Elyon>besides, ruby obv. has a Regex class you can use if for some arcane reason the delimiters don't match your issue solving
16:09<Elyon>I'm not saying `/` is easier, just that I don't find """ easier than `/`
16:10<frosch123>well, i don't know about ruby syntax, but it looks to me like "match" is a method of the string class
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16:10<Elyon>or " or ' for that matter
16:10<Elyon>wait I may have put it down wrong, lemme see what I wrote
16:10<Elyon>yeah it's the other way around, my mistake
16:10<Elyon>anyway, syntactic sugar abound:
16:10<andythenorth>ugh, passing shell vars from python reliably
16:11*andythenorth got smacked by that recently
16:11<Elyon>'0xdeadbeef'[/0x([0-9A-Fa-f][0-9A-Fa-f]*)/][1] => 'deadbeef'
16:11<andythenorth> seemed to help
16:12<frosch123>oh, a regular expression for the [] operator?
16:12<Elyon>I'm not bashing python by the way, I just like the conciseness of ruby's regex syntax. Ruby has nothing on python's list comprehension
16:12<frosch123>looks fancy :)
16:12<Elyon>abstract 'indexing' into a string with a regex :3
16:12<frosch123>don't worry, every language for it's purpose
16:13<Elyon>I must admit the lack of 'switch' was one of the reasons I haven't gotten around to python until just now
16:13<frosch123>i like knowing 20+ languages, and choosing one for each task
16:13<Elyon>but it's okay, if/elif is more powerful anyway
16:13<Elyon>yeah :)
16:13<Elyon>I don't know how many I know
16:13<andythenorth>you’ll get by without switch :)
16:13<Elyon>probably only 7-8 really well
16:13*andythenorth doesn’t know a single language :(
16:13<frosch123>oh, python does not have switch? ... i haven't even noticed that :p
16:13<frosch123>i guess i did not need it for some reason
16:14<Elyon>it's syntactic sugar in highlevel languages anyway
16:14<Elyon>and if you're lacking performance then what are you doing with an interpreted language anyway :p
16:16<Elyon>I just like the `case year; when (1900..2000): puts 'lol last millenium'; else puts 'THE FUTURE IS NOW (or 115 years ago)'; end
16:16<Elyon>that looks hideous as a oneliner
16:17<Elyon>long story short: python is treating me nicely, and I'm not a fangirl
16:17<andythenorth>use the ‘weird’ python ternary ope in that case :)
16:17<andythenorth>for switching two things
16:17<Elyon>although I still kind of dread the 'pythonic' term or w/e
16:17<Elyon>I didn't think python had ?:
16:17<frosch123>yeah, the ternery in python is insane
16:17<Elyon>or wait
16:17<andythenorth>I love the python ternary
16:17<frosch123>Elyon: exaclty it does not have ? :
16:18<andythenorth>it works like my brain
16:18<frosch123>it has something silly
16:18*andythenorth is not a programmer
16:18*andythenorth is probably only two steps away from ‘someone who would like perl'
16:18<andythenorth>although I read a perl script once
16:18<frosch123>"condition ? a : b" in various languages -> "a if condition else b" in python
16:18<frosch123>i.e. the condition is between the choices :/
16:18<Elyon>oh that's ... yeah
16:18<Elyon>I've used that syntax in list comprehensions without realising it worked in general
16:18<andythenorth>that’s how my brain works
16:19<andythenorth>we used to use something which is considered hideous apparently
16:19<andythenorth>(a, b)[condition]
16:19<andythenorth>which is neat and terse
16:19<Elyon>considering it's evaluated strictly `condition -> select(a, b)`, that syntax is oddpants
16:20<Elyon>`cond ? a : b` is pretty logical as well, I find
16:20<Elyon>it's basically just `if cond then a else b`
16:20<andythenorth>the tuple thing has caused some other people ‘wtf’ when I write it
16:20<Elyon>ah, yes, tuples <3
16:20<Elyon>lacking in ruby as well
16:21<frosch123>andythenorth: as 'wtf' as when i see something writing "condition == true" ?
16:21<Elyon>or even worse
16:21<Elyon>if condition == true:
16:21<Elyon> return true
16:21<Elyon>else: return false
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16:21<frosch123>oh, true, that is also popular :)
16:22<andythenorth>frosch123: that’s usually just a sign of someone who can’t let go of the way from other languages :)
16:22<andythenorth>took me a couple of years to trust that True really is true
16:22<Elyon>or someone who has taken the `intro to programming` course and is ready to conquer the world
16:22<andythenorth>age, experience, application of common sense
16:22<frosch123>andythenorth: the problem is C :p where true is not necessary true
16:22<Elyon>although in fairness, I wrote a program 15 years ago that put 100 empty files on the desktop. It was 100 lines long
16:23<frosch123>if true is != 0, then there can be multiple trues
16:23<Elyon>well most things in c are true
16:23<Elyon>if you include <bool.h> anyway
16:23<Elyon>else no things are true
16:23<Elyon>actually that's wrong
16:24<Elyon>they evaluate to true if used as conditions, but won't compare to `true`
16:26<Elyon>anyway, on with the nml
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20:19<mgrunin>openttd is shit
20:19<mgrunin>how autistic do you need to be
20:20<Elyon>wow, two insults in as many lines
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22:08<Elyon>am I correct in assuming that to define my own property for nml, I am supposed to build an expression tree?
22:11<Elyon>that eventually coalesces down to a constant string of bytes?
22:16<Elyon>in that case, I am having some issues with `expression.ConstantNumeric(0x42D + 0x80000000)` seemingly rendering as negative (which makes sense considering it as a 32bit integer)
22:17<Elyon>still, reduce() spits out a 32bit integer which is unfortunate as I have way more than 32 bits
22:21<Elyon>it spits out the 24 low bits correctly, and then the high ~120 bits incorrectly
22:21<Elyon>or not at all, as it were
22:21<Elyon>(the negativity thing is not an issue apparently)
22:24<Elyon>nevermind all of that, I should have read the Action0Property comments
22:24<Elyon>for what it's worth, here's what I ended up with before realising my mistake: ((((((((((((((((((2 | (1012 << 8)) | (0 << 16)) | (-2147482579 << 24)) | (0 << 32)) | (0 << 40)) | (0 << 48)) | (0 << 56)) | (16 << 64)) | (4 << 72)) | (50 << 80)) | (-2147482579 << 88)) | (0 << 96)) | (0 << 104)) | (12 << 112)) | (0 << 120)) | (16 << 128)) | (4 << 136)) | (50 << 144))
22:25*Elyon is monologuing until someone wakes up
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 07 00:00:16 2015