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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-01-14

---Logopened Wed Jan 14 00:00:26 2015
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04:04<dihedral>good morning
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04:58<supermop>can snow be added to tropic the same way as to temperate in ogfx+, that is, a setting for arctic which uses tropic sprites? Or will one no longer then be able to have desert/rainforest?
04:59<V453000>what do you mean?
04:59<V453000>ogfx+ snow is in arctic
04:59<V453000>the arctic grass just turns green
04:59<V453000>ah right
04:59<V453000>like having rainforest in the lowlands, deset on the hills
04:59<V453000>doing that with RAWR :)
05:00<supermop>not quite - just a regular tropic map, but with some snow at the top of the mountains
05:01<V453000>I dont think that can be done
05:01<supermop>but i recall that snow and desert use the same bit on the tile
05:01<V453000>since it is the same sprite ID I would assume so too
05:01<supermop>although what you describe would be nice - different placement of the rainforest and desert
05:02<V453000>would/will :P
05:03<supermop>i wish trees hinted at the relief of the land so i could leave them on more
05:04<supermop>as it is they are perfect noise camouflage at high densities, so hills are disguised when covered
05:05<supermop>a means of darkening a tree sprite by x% when it is on one of the slopes that is conventionally shaded - ie left side of a hill, would be primative but very helpful
05:06<V453000>kind of valid yes :)
05:06<supermop>better would be for trees to take average slope of their tile over a 3x3 area and shape accordingly
05:06<supermop>but trees cant know this stuff anyway
05:07<V453000>that would be even more awesome :D
05:07<supermop>so moot point
05:07<V453000>you working on your building set by the way?
05:07<V453000>or something? :P
05:07<supermop>not really modelling for fun lately - been working and trying to do some printmaking
05:07<supermop>but no one is buying the prints
05:08<supermop>i'll either go to a local artist marker or give up entirely
05:08<supermop>i have been documenting a lot though
05:08<supermop>and today brainstorming about drawing pubs
05:09<V453000>interesting :)
05:09<V453000>I will have a landscape newGRF within a week I hope :)
05:09<V453000>well I basically already have it, just some improvements/touches/roads
05:09<supermop>and whether they should be modular or if i should just model 5 or so and leave it at that
05:10<supermop>houses gain a lot from modularity, but pubs are more of a landmark so i dont need to have combinatorially many generic pubs
05:10<supermop>better just a few fancy ones and a few basic ones
05:10<V453000>yeah that makes sense
05:11<V453000>I like imagining the research you had to do to inspect pubs
05:11<supermop>also the styles are so different that i dont really want bits of 1890s pubs tacked onto 1920s ones
05:11<supermop>of course i will be modelling the interiors and beer taps for accuracy
05:12<supermop>would be great too have a tree line
05:13<supermop>no trees grow above height x, only pine trees above height x-n, etc
05:14<supermop>and pines create more pines nearby, oaks create more oaks nearby
05:14<V453000>yeah I guess :)
05:14<V453000>sounds complex though XD
05:14<V453000>all the things trees /could/ doi
05:14<supermop>open tree tycoon
05:15<supermop>why not make your landscape set have bare dirt for the tiles, and grass as a type oof tree
05:16<supermop>always seems silly to me to see rich green grass growing on the forest floor
05:17<V453000>so vice versa
05:17<V453000>green grass everywhere
05:17<V453000>trees on brown
05:17<V453000>sounds wtf XD
05:17<V453000>trees are parts of city roads too I think :P
05:18<supermop>grass on the sidewalks is common in many run down american cities
05:19<supermop>and of course the deciduous trees should lose their leaves in winter
05:19<supermop>but all these tree dreams aside
05:19<supermop>are you rendering or drawing your landscape?
05:22<@planetmaker><supermop> can snow be added to tropic the same way as to temperate in ogfx+, that is, a setting for arctic which uses tropic sprites? Or will one no longer then be able to have desert/rainforest? <-- desert and snow tiles share the same sprite ID
05:23<@planetmaker>thus you can replace desert by snow, if you desire
05:25<supermop>i feared as much, planetmaker
05:27<supermop>why not have desert by the sea so we can make sand dunes?
05:27<__ln___>and sandworms
05:28<@planetmaker>supermop, you can do so, in the SE
05:30<@planetmaker>except the coast tile itself, though... and why: no-one made OpenTTD understand that :)
05:31<supermop>what about shady trees on the shady side of a hill? how hard is that?
05:32<supermop>the only input my fiance ever has given on openttd is that the trees are too much noise, but when i asked her to write a patch for it she said no way
05:34<supermop>V453000: instead of dirt just add a ring of reddish brown fallen leaves or pineneedles to tree sprites and you'd get an ok approximation of a forest floor
05:46<supermop>ok im off for the evening
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05:53<b_jonas>yes, it would be nice to have a way to make the trees invisible but still keep their stump visible so I can tell which squares have trees
07:02<@planetmaker>V453000, functional features cannot really be done with landscape anyway. And turned into a baseset... that means touching every line anyway ;)
07:02<@planetmaker>basesets have different code than newgrfs
07:02<V453000>right :D
07:03<@planetmaker>but a simple search&replace does the trick, though. Mostly
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07:03<@planetmaker>but a baseset simply does not *replace* anything ;)
07:04<V453000>understandable :)
07:04<@planetmaker>need a repo? :D
07:05<V453000>nah not yet :)
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07:10<V453000>is there some specific size/stuff of base set sprites how they must look? or is the size of them variable?
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07:11<V453000>like, do I have to have my landscape sprites in some certain boxes/sizes?
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07:29<@planetmaker>landscape sprites are landscape sprites
07:29<@planetmaker>not sure what you're asking :)
07:31<@planetmaker>the sprites have no other requirements than for newgrfs
07:31<V453000>right :)
07:31<V453000>so if I have a sprite sheet for a newGRF, it is just as useful for base set
07:31<@planetmaker>yes, spritesheets can be the same
07:31<@planetmaker>referencing them looks slightly different
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07:33<@planetmaker>it's different for vehicles, houses and industries... there are very specific requirements on how to compose them, how many views and construction stages they have
07:35<V453000>that I understand :)
07:35<V453000>sort of :P
07:36<@planetmaker>a train wagon either has 8 or 4 views. You can't choose how many it has. Some have 4, others have 8. No choice
07:36<V453000>ah right, symmetrical ones
07:36<V453000>thats fine :)
07:37<V453000>but in case industries, if I just replace the parts, and make sure they fit together in all the various possibilities?
07:37<@planetmaker>the coal mine has a fixed layout. It has 3 different sprites for the animation of the moving cable. No changing the amount or the tile they're used on
07:37<@planetmaker>some industries share ground tiles. They must fit all
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07:38<V453000>I am already looking at the ogfx-base png that someone linked me to on the forums
07:38<@planetmaker>and yes, coal mine, ore smelter, factory... they have different layouts composed from the very same sprites. It must fit for all those
07:38<V453000>for the landscape sprite IDs I replace
07:40<@planetmaker>in a base set, you also only attach a sprite to each ID for each other sprite, house, vehicle, industry... :) You basically need no intelligent code at all
07:40<@planetmaker>the only somewhat intelligent code is in the extra grf of base sets
07:40<@planetmaker>which define rivers and signals
07:40<V453000>yeah I saw that too :)
07:40<V453000>all RAWR does is this, too
07:40<V453000> replace FARM_8_0(4259, "gfx/RAWR_8bpp.png") { template_LANDSCAPE_x1(0,17) } alternative_sprites(FARM_8_0, ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP, "gfx/RAWR_0000.png") { template_LANDSCAPE_x1(0,17) } alternative_sprites(FARM_8_0, ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP, "gfx/RAWR_0000.png") { template_LANDSCAPE_x4(0,17) }
07:41<@planetmaker>V453000, can I have screenies of rawr also in 2x and 1x of the same scenes?
07:41<@planetmaker>and maybe 0.5 and 0.25x?
07:41<V453000>like zooming out
07:42<V453000>ah, basically all of them
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07:42<@planetmaker>well, yeah. You know why.... thinking of pota-ghat ;)
07:42<V453000>what are you thinking? :D
07:43<@planetmaker>"show me that it looks better" :P
07:44<V453000>well the textures are quite bad at the moment but it is a lot more readable as in what is where :)
07:44<@planetmaker>yes, the 4x look excellent
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07:47<V453000>might take a while to get there
07:47<V453000>but there they shall appear
07:48<V453000>should be up :)
07:48<@planetmaker>yup :)
07:48<@planetmaker>Hm... the / and \ coast lines are slightly too straight for my liking :)
07:48<V453000>about everything is going to look different, but yeah
07:49<@planetmaker>the | look much better
07:49<V453000>especially coasts getting re-rendered right now XD
07:49<V453000>actually, getting compiled atm :)
07:50<@planetmaker>you also should test with a recent nightly. I saw that frosch activated the totally unused 2nd type of rocks for usage :)
07:50<V453000>new coasts :P
07:50<V453000>yeah, because I told him that I didnt see the 2nd set of rocks ever used XD
07:50<V453000>atm I got both rocks look the same, but changing that quickly :)
07:51<V453000>it was complete coincidence, I basically just defined only rocks2, rocks1 were only grass :)
07:51<@planetmaker>I thought already of changing that when I made OpenGFX... dunny why I forgot :)
07:52<V453000>I have setup a super nice infrastructure which lets me replace e.g. grass everywhere with just a few clicks and about 1.5 hr of rendering/compiling/stuff
07:53<V453000>sooo I might really change a lot of things still :D
07:53<V453000>replacing all grass now :) trying how nice will it be in x1
07:53<V453000>currently the repetitions at x1 are killing it
07:53<V453000>and well not only in x1
07:56<V453000>1 of 4096 pixels is pure white WARNING WARNING :D
07:56<V453000>yes right
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13:34<Negron>Who likes this game ?
13:34<@Alberth>clicking at random urls? nobody
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13:42<Supercheese>Well, at least it's youtube and not some obfuscated tinyurl or whatnot
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13:48<@Alberth>spiffy new landscape V
13:48<V453000>ty, will be better
13:48<V453000>experimenting a lot
13:48<LordAro>you guys seen this yet?
13:48<LordAro>somewhat "old news", but impressive nonetheless
13:49<@Alberth>you don't need minecraft to build computers :p
13:49<LordAro>quite :D
13:49<Supercheese>will the rawr water be animated or static?
13:50<V453000>probably static
13:50<Supercheese> :(
13:50<V453000>will see
13:50*Rubidium sees that Supercheese volunteers for making it animated
13:50<V453000>might try to grab wetrail mask
13:50<V453000>see what it does
13:50<V453000>Rubidium is right
13:50<Rubidium>I'm always right...
13:50<Rubidium>... unless I'm wrong ;)
13:51<Supercheese>could just use the water cycle colors in the mask file
13:51<Supercheese>no idea how that would look though
13:51<V453000>exactly :)
13:51<Supercheese>possibly very bad :(
13:51<V453000>will try my own wetrail water. :)
13:51<V453000>if bad, nogo
13:52<frosch123>LordAro: someone made a complete 24hour cycle digital clock
13:52<V453000>but from what I saw at 8bpp CC mask, :/
13:52<Rubidium>frosch123: how accurate was it? ;)
13:53<frosch123> <- measure yourself
13:56<frosch123>he, i didn't know we had an official youtube channel with a let's play series :p
13:56<LordAro>what, yogscast? :p
13:57<LordAro>damn, was that livestream 3 years ago now?
13:57<frosch123> <- someone knows that guy? :p
13:57<frosch123>planetmaker: is that related to the g+ group?
13:58<frosch123>hmm, likely
13:59<frosch123>yeah, someone tried to link to every tutorial possible
13:59<frosch123>manual searchbot
14:03<V453000>nice nickname
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14:09<frosch123>V453000: you know how to replace the 3-corners-raised shores?
14:09<V453000>what, that is possible?
14:10<V453000>also can a base set do that?
14:10<frosch123>yes, it's even done for the original basesets in openttd.grf
14:10<V453000>is it in the extra grf?
14:10<V453000>or somewhere else
14:10<V453000>in other words which sprite IDs are there?
14:11<frosch123>wrt. what is possibly, you should take a look at ogfx, it does about the maximum a baseset can do
14:11<frosch123>shores, canals, rivers, ...
14:12<V453000>oh yeah it is in ogfx-extra
14:13<frosch123>you cannot use "replace", you have to use "replace_new"
14:13<frosch123>it does not take numbers in the range 20xx
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15:01<Eddi|zuHause>i wonder if there's a irc client plugin that automatically expands tinyurls to their original...
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15:51<FLHerne>dreck: Hi (belatedly)
15:54<dreck>busy with something?
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16:09<FLHerne>Was trying to get the stove to light
16:09<FLHerne>Very windy here, keeps blowing smoke down the chimney :-(
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16:25<dreck>I see :/
16:29<+glx>wind should do the opposite
16:30<+glx>with venturi effect or something like that
16:33<FLHerne>glx: It's fine when the fire's actually burning ok, but when the air in the flue's still cold it doesn't seem to
16:33<FLHerne>Probably I'm just doing it all wrong, not had this thing very long
16:33<+glx>maybe you can close it or something
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 15 00:00:28 2015