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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-01-16

---Logopened Fri Jan 16 00:00:29 2015
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03:12<TheGhostHybrid>Hello! I'm having trouble with my mouse cursor and couldn't find a matching bug report.
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03:14<TheGhostHybrid>When I first installed it, it was fine. It was only after going into the settings menu and putting the game in fullscreen mode that I can no longer see the cursor or click on anything.
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04:43<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: it is time to face your phobia https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/CabbageHarvesterOfGreaterEvil.png
04:45<@planetmaker>omg! It all will be covered in slime! e-very-thing!
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04:51<krinn>hi guys, got a question about power and TE, anyone in mood to get bugged?
04:52<@peter1138>As always, don't ask if you can ask...
04:53<V453000>(:
04:53<krinn>ok then, how do you find out "when" you need an extra engine (the redline where the vehicle couldn't handle it anymore with only 1 engine and goes slow while climbing)
04:54<V453000>just by observing and seeing if the engine accelerates too poorly or not
04:54<V453000>you will get the hang of it over time
04:54<krinn>by numbers i mean
04:54<V453000>you dont
04:54<krinn>as ai couldn't watch
04:54<V453000>XD
04:55<krinn>i have put the two formula to get power and TE, but this doesn't seems related at all, a too weak engine still manage to climb, until i raise it to some huge amount of diff between maxTE of engine and actual TE need)
04:57*V453000 back to snails
04:57<krinn>V453000, got it now why i ask to ask for this before :)
05:27<@planetmaker>krinn, https://wiki.openttd.org/Tractive_Effort <-- does it help?
05:28<krinn>it "had" help a lot, i got all the formulas from there
05:28<krinn>but it doesn't gave clue how to find the redline, until better, i pick choice to calc engine power need at a low speed while climbing (15% maxspeed of engine)
05:29<@peter1138>Where does the magic 0.35 value come from?
05:29<krinn>and if i cannot reach it, add another engine
05:29<krinn>0.35?
05:30<@planetmaker>peter1138, that's the friction of steel on steel
05:30<@planetmaker>roughly
05:30<@peter1138>Argh, double click to edit... annoying when I want to just select text.
05:30<krinn>ah ok, you mean 35N
05:31<@peter1138>krinn, no, 0.35. Shows you read the whole page I guess...
05:32<krinn>lol ok but 0.35µ is 35N :)
05:41<@peter1138>0.35µ doesn't make any sense.
05:42<@peter1138>µ = 0.35 is an assignment.
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06:51<Eddi|zuHause>steel-on-steel is actually more like 0.15, 0.35 probably assumes sand and stuff
06:54<__ln___>https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3671
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08:04<Eddi|zuHause>__ln___: that's... unfortunate
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09:06<Xaroth|Work>__ln___: so about just as bad as eve's boot.ini issue :P
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11:00<NGC3982>16:55 < NGCthree`> *** Ojamae has left the game (received invalid or unexpected packet)
11:00<NGC3982>This just happend on a player on my server. Do i need to attend to this?
11:01<Jinassi>I just had a player conjure 5,5million pounds out of thin air
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11:03<@peter1138>Wrong, the decimal separator is . not ,
11:04<@Rubidium>peter1138: it'll just make excel think you meant 5500 million
11:05<NGC3982>Jinassi: Do you mean the player cheated?
11:05<NGC3982>In a multiplayer game? :3
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11:08<Jinassi>NGC3982: yep, no logs of any donation or sales of vehicles or subsidies or railway removal.
11:09<NGC3982>That's exciting.
11:09<NGC3982>What server?
11:10<Jinassi>rddt s1
11:12<Jinassi>http://ttd.duck.me.uk/game?id=123 Serg Transport
11:15<Jinassi>Player then bought vehicles(mostly planes), which then promptly bankrupted said company, since maintenance was exceptionally higher than profit(full load orders, no slot left to unload)
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11:19<@peter1138>Highly conclusive.
11:24<Taede>when you say no logs, which logs are you looking into?
11:24<Taede>nvm
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11:29<@peter1138>Magic logs.
11:30<@planetmaker>o/
11:30<@peter1138>Can you log everything via admin port or somesuch?
11:30<Taede>yes
11:30<Taede>server1 uses soap, and should log most
11:31<Taede>though these graphs look like they are generated from different logs
11:32<Jinassi>am not able to provide fully detailed logs at the moment. These "magic logs" is all I can link at the moment.
11:33<@peter1138>Are you calling that graph a log?
11:33<NGC3982>He did use a ".
11:33<@peter1138>(Cos that graph doesn't show anything about a 5.5 million quantitive easing)
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11:54<@Alberth>moin
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14:11<andythenorth>o/
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14:12<andythenorth>lo Alberth
14:12<@Alberth>h ihi
14:12<@Alberth>still playing?
14:14<andythenorth>yes
14:14<andythenorth>I should fix my build though
14:14<andythenorth>currently using the version from bananas ;P
14:14-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-249-192.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
14:14<andythenorth>I don’t know if I can face debugging my local build tonight though :P
14:15<andythenorth>too many days of sleep at midnight, get up at 6am
14:15<Samu>hi all
14:15<Samu>It's been some time
14:16<@Alberth>just update?
14:16<@Alberth>or do you have local changes?\
14:17<Samu>Have you heard of Raptr or AMD Gaming Evolved App?
14:17<@Alberth>no
14:18<Samu>It's a program that optimize games settings for your hardware, kinda like nvidia shadowplay. but the reason I come here is about a crash
14:18<andythenorth>Alberth: I’ve pulled tip, but makefile is borked for me
14:18<@Alberth>oh dear, what does it say?
14:19<andythenorth>can’t find hg
14:19<@Alberth>lol
14:19<andythenorth>I don’t know if I want the pain of digging into that tonight :)
14:19<andythenorth>I have to analyse about 500 booking records for a design :P
14:20<@Alberth>without hg, I hope :)
14:20<Samu>When I exit Raptr while a game is running (such as OpenTTD), I get a warning from Raptr saying that it could potentially crash the game.
14:20<Samu>And indeed it crashed OpenTTD
14:20<andythenorth>my hg is fine ;)
14:20<Samu>should I report?
14:20<andythenorth>subprocess can’t find
14:20<@Alberth>ah, ok
14:21<@Alberth>I may have killed PATH or so, to fix some other hg problem
14:22<@Alberth>Samu: report what? "I used random 3rd party software and it is broken?"
14:22<@Alberth>ie how can openttd fix problems in raptor or whatever it is called?
14:22<Samu>it delivered a crash report
14:23<@Alberth>of course it did, it always does
14:24<@Alberth>but you raptor thingie warned you it might happen. Best solution imho is not use this raptor thing, or don't exit it while openttd is running
14:25<@Rubidium>a windows crash dump might be interesting to see, just to get a clue what is happening for the next guy that comes up with this issue (or just dumps something on the bug tracker)
14:25<@Alberth>Samu: ^ there's your permission to upload the crash
14:26<Samu>okay, I'm also interested to know what's wrong with it
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14:28<andythenorth>quak
14:29<@Alberth>andythenorth: to verify python3 check_lang_compatibility.py lang/english.txt info.nut is broken?
14:30<andythenorth>yes
14:30<andythenorth>FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'hg'
14:32<frosch123>hoi
14:34*andythenorth compiles FIRS
14:34<andythenorth>better make something to eat while I wait :P
14:34<andythenorth>I should test new nmlc
14:34<andythenorth>also
14:34<Samu>uploading report now
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14:38<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfpykjift does this fix it?
14:39<@Alberth>hola
14:40<Samu>strange, I cant seem to post
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14:41<Samu>trying to create the task, and nothing happens
14:42<@Alberth>not logged in?
14:42<Samu>I logged in
14:43<Samu>must be my internet
14:43<@Alberth>no summary?
14:43<+glx><Samu> It's a program that optimize games settings for your hardware, kinda like nvidia shadowplay. but the reason I come here is about a crash <-- it's not shadowplay it's geforce experience
14:44<+glx>shadowplay is for streaming
14:44<Samu>ah, that :)
14:45-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
14:45<Samu>Could I upload to somewhere else and someone post on my behalf to Flyspray?
14:46<@Rubidium>yup
14:47<Samu>oh, it worked now
14:47<Samu>i still have 2 screenshots
14:47<Samu>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6209
14:49<andythenorth>Alberth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p7x1xqbwx
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14:49<Samu>ok, screenshots also posted there as comments
14:50<+glx>[00] ??? 0x000007FEDC697940
14:50<+glx>[01] openttd 0x00000001401EFEAC
14:51<+glx>the huge address change is weird
14:51<@Alberth>interesting, how does it end up with "undle" ?
14:51<frosch123>"b" is the "branch" command
14:51<frosch123>it takes the filename as part of the sed script
14:51<frosch123>i guess andy should get a better os
14:51<frosch123>with a less hillariously broken sed
14:52-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit []
14:53<krinn>don't os/x should use bsd sed instead of gnu/sed?
14:53<@Alberth>andythenorth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pzxyh1t38 add -e ?
14:53<@Alberth>krinn: yep
14:53<krinn>that's the problem me think
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14:55<frosch123>when would bsd sed expect a filename then?
14:55<andythenorth>can’t get the patch to apply
14:55*andythenorth faffs
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14:56<@Alberth>-i always takes an argument with bsd sed, so -i -> -i ''
14:57<frosch123>oh, does -i take the filename?
14:57<@Alberth>no, an extension to use for the backup file
14:57<@Alberth>http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=sed
14:58<@Alberth>-I is also interesting, no idea how you'd use that :p
14:59<krinn>howabout some <sed 's/this/that' infile.txt > outputfile.txt for bsdsed?
14:59-!-alluke [~oftc-webi@62-78-237-171.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
14:59<andythenorth>bloody makefile editing :)
14:59<andythenorth>I have to entab all my spaces
14:59<andythenorth>I think it’s worked
15:00<@Alberth>hmm, -i '' fails here :p
15:00<alluke>ogfx+ industries seems to be fucked
15:00<alluke>i can get sawmill to appear on the industry list
15:00<frosch123>Alberth: hmm, gnu sed has "-s", which looks like "-I" is the default
15:00<alluke>can't*
15:00<frosch123>never noticed that
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15:00<frosch123>didn't know considering them one file was even an option :p
15:01<@Alberth>alluke: in tropical you have to fund the sawmill
15:01<andythenorth>hmm
15:01<alluke>im in temperate
15:02<andythenorth>dbg: [misc] [Squirrel] Compile error: Error /Users/andy/Documents/OpenTTD/game/busy-bee-gs/info.nut:23/32: end of statement expected (; or lf)
15:02<alluke>paper mill appears on the list if i select it
15:02<alluke>and i can get factory to accept it too
15:02<frosch123>there is a setting for the wood chain
15:02<alluke>yep
15:02<alluke>thats what im plying with
15:04<@Alberth>andythenorth: yep, you have to use an build version
15:04<@Alberth>it's a hassle though
15:04<andythenorth>I thought I did
15:04*andythenorth is figuring out how GS is installed
15:05<@peter1138>Reverse it into the garage.
15:06<@peter1138>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_GS < such car
15:06<frosch123>andythenorth: add a symlink from the game folder obove to the bundle dir in your checkout
15:06<alluke>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/wood2fac.png
15:06<alluke>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/wood2pap.png
15:06<alluke>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/wood2saw.png
15:07<andythenorth>frosch123: thanks
15:07<andythenorth>I am trying to cirumvent savegame min version right now :P
15:07<andythenorth>don’t ask why :P
15:07<andythenorth>failing
15:08<alluke>should i report?
15:08<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pspdqkyop let's drop -i :)
15:08<krinn>andythenorth, function MinVersionToLoad() { return 1; } and you're good to go
15:09-!-eQualizer|dada [~lauri@46-163-226-192.blcnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:09<andythenorth>hmm info.nut-e
15:09<@Rubidium>Samu: the stack trace in the dump file looks really weird
15:09<andythenorth>and info.nut
15:09<frosch123>439 mib to download :) V is screwing the "download it all" people in a very custom fashion :p
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15:11<@Alberth>alluke: final shot at least looks wrong, so yeah, please report in ogfx+industries (include the save game too)
15:11<alluke>okay
15:11<alluke>ill quickly test it with fresh game
15:12<Samu>stack trace? eh... not sure what it is. Raptr keeps track of my total gaming time for OpenTTD. I'm not sure what else it can do.
15:12<@Rubidium>Samu: it's basically a list of functions that is being run at the moment of the crash
15:13<frosch123>Samu: the "stacktrace" are the 4kB that are useful information from the 6.72 MB .dmp you uploaded :)
15:13<andythenorth>patch failed, /me too sleepy to figure out :P
15:13<andythenorth>what am I supposed to understand from the .rej file?
15:13<@Alberth>import PIL
15:13<andythenorth>it’s just *** codes and line numbers
15:14<@Alberth>it contains the rejected hunks
15:14<andythenorth>yes :)
15:14<alluke>hmm
15:14<alluke>everything works in fresh game
15:14<@Alberth>that's it :p
15:14<alluke>gotta try to play with the grfs
15:15<andythenorth>so debugging failed hunks is a guessing game?
15:15<@Alberth>the old text didn't match
15:15<andythenorth>I’ll just C+P
15:16<@Rubidium>oh, raptr seems to also crash Chrome upon exit with roughtly the same exception offset (given ASLR it might be the same): http://raptr.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37436
15:16<@Alberth>to get the cause you need to check how your hunk differs with the 'old' part of the rejected hunk
15:16<@Alberth>usually it's not worth the trouble :)
15:18<andythenorth>sed: 1: "bundle/BusyBee-v5494M-h ...": undefined label 'undle/BusyBee-v5494M-h4a46f566a8bb/info.nut'
15:18<andythenorth>hah
15:18<andythenorth>trying to find the missing ‘b'
15:18<@Alberth>the -i ate it, I think
15:19<@Alberth>(21:08:14) Alberth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pspdqkyop let's drop -i :) <-- so this perhaps?
15:19<andythenorth>ok appears to work
15:20<andythenorth>it was my stupid editor, it has a bad habit of silently switching to .orig files when selecting a file to edit
15:20<andythenorth>so changes go missing
15:20<@Alberth>and the check_lang_compatibility problem?
15:21<@Alberth>ie entire https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pspdqkyop
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15:22<andythenorth>it’s compiled and appears in my game
15:23<andythenorth>now I just want to trick the compatibility to match my savegame :P
15:23<andythenorth>not sure I can
15:24-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
15:25<Wolf01>hi hi
15:25<@Alberth>hi hi
15:25<krinn>hi
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15:26<krinn>andythenorth, just gave you upper howto
15:26-!-NGC3982 [~kruger@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd
15:26<krinn>hi Zuu
15:26<andythenorth>ha
15:26<andythenorth>no
15:26<andythenorth>because I can’t build without the makefile
15:27<andythenorth>and the makefile appears to set the version
15:27<andythenorth>Alberth: in any case, it builds and appears in menu
15:28<@Alberth>function MinVersionToLoad() { return 1; } as krrinn said
15:28<andythenorth>and I have the last full paste you gave afaict
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15:28<andythenorth>hmm
15:28<@Alberth>ok, trying to fix the bananas upload thingie too, but it's tricky :)
15:28<Zuu>hi krinn
15:28<andythenorth>well the compiled bundle has MINCOMPATIBLE_SAVEGAME_VERSION <- 1
15:29<andythenorth>which is the version my savegame says it wants
15:29<andythenorth>nvm
15:29<andythenorth>not significant
15:29<@Alberth>makefile works around it already :p
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15:32<@Alberth>:o 3 new languages :)
15:32<@Alberth>pushed btw
15:33<andythenorth>seems to work
15:33<andythenorth>:)
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15:38<+glx><@Rubidium> oh, raptr seems to also crash Chrome upon exit with roughtly the same exception offset (given ASLR it might be the same): http://raptr.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37436 <-- yup very similar, like a dll brutally removed and no longer listed in module information
15:40<+glx>I guess these tools hook themself in running programs but don't unhook properly on exit
15:41<Zuu>Alberth: You got one more language waiting for next sync. :-)
15:42<@Alberth>:) thanks Zuu
15:45<@Alberth>andythenorth: version = v5493-hde8b1dc14ad3 <-- that ok as development version for bananas?
15:45<andythenorth>herp, no idea :)
15:46<@Alberth>technically just the hash would be enough, but the day may be nice too
15:46<@Alberth>as it provides an increasing number
15:48<@Alberth>let's keep it this way for a while :)
15:49<andythenorth>wfm
15:51<andythenorth>hmm
15:51<andythenorth>I set everything in info.nut to ‘1’ :P
15:51<andythenorth>The savegame has an GameScript by the name 'BusyBee', version 1 which is no longer available
15:52<@Alberth>maybe you have another version with a higher number somewhere?
15:53<@Alberth>maybe your downloaded version?
15:53<krinn>i think it bork the script itself, with higher version it should just load higher version, the message tells it cannot find any busybee gs
15:54<@Alberth>good point
15:54<andythenorth>I’ve binned the downloaded version
15:54<andythenorth>ah
15:54<andythenorth>version reported in ottd UI is 100001
15:54<krinn>andythenorth, my guess would be: gs directory inside the tar or unpack should be of "busybee.version"
15:54<andythenorth>which is v5494
15:55<@Alberth>return PROGRAM_VERSION + SAVEGAME_VERSION * 100000; :)
15:56<andythenorth>got it
15:57<@Alberth>pushed bananas version fix
15:57<krinn>happy new years everyone (lol yeah, i'm late, just remember it)
15:58<andythenorth>hmm well everything is now 1 :)
15:58<andythenorth>but my savegame hates it
15:58<andythenorth>this is probably not supported behaviour :)
16:00<krinn>with minversintoload set to 1 it should load any savegame
16:00<krinn>if it cann't, it might be some other things is going on (like api set higher than openttd api version)
16:02<krinn>i saw in vehicle details windows it shown me TE for the vehicle, but not anymore? do it output it only with multihead train?
16:02<andythenorth>ho ho, well v59 of Busy Bee works :)
16:02*andythenorth back to that
16:03<Zuu>Lol, looking up "fibre crop farm" on google image search in order to translate it, and the first hit is from FIRS :-p
16:03<andythenorth>krinn: TE is there for me with Iron Horse, not with PIPE
16:04<andythenorth>probably some newgrf handling
16:04<andythenorth>Zuu: it’s a made up term afaict
16:04<krinn>i use the same savegame, so no chnage to newgrf
16:04<andythenorth>which newgrf(s) do you have?
16:04<andythenorth>I think it depends what props they set, or it’s a railtype thing
16:05<krinn>opengfx industry only now
16:06<andythenorth>no clue then :)
16:07<krinn>ah got it! only display when acceleration model is swap
16:11*andythenorth plays ottd
16:18<andythenorth>hmm
16:18*andythenorth adds cheats to ‘Full FIRS'
16:19<krinn>what realistic acc model change? with it, train climb the hill easy, with original it get down to its knees while trying
16:19<frosch123>with default all trains perform the same on hills
16:19<Zuu>In realistic curves impact more than in original. IIRC
16:19<frosch123>with realistic there are actually differences
16:20<krinn>it looks like it change TE need is twice when original acc is use
16:21<frosch123>huh? original acc does not know te
16:22<krinn>i don't know then, it just cannot climb the hill with it, the very same train just swapping the acc model
16:24<frosch123>iirc no trains can climb any hills with original acc
16:25<+glx>there's a work around to get a minimal speed iirc
16:25<krinn>glx: i'm all hears!
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>any hill tile instantly reduces train speed on original
16:26<krinn>glx: well, ears then
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>no matter the train or the power
16:26<+glx>krinn: the code manage to get a speed of 1km/h or something in case the acceleration is too low
16:26<frosch123>not instantly, just exponentially fast or so :p
16:27<krinn>frosch123, maybe, but how then should i guess what speed i would get?
16:27<frosch123>with original, just assume 1
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>just don't use original.
16:28<frosch123>or that :p
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16:28<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, it's not something i could handle myself :)
16:28<andythenorth>hrm
16:28<frosch123>hmm, "original" is still the default value, isn't it? :p
16:28<andythenorth>well Full FIRS is about to get rebalanced massively for 1.4.0
16:28<andythenorth>where is V453000?
16:28<krinn>yes
16:28*andythenorth summons V453000
16:29<andythenorth>come on V453000
16:29<frosch123>drinking beer most likely
16:29<andythenorth>bloody V453000
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes, $someone was against changing it waaaay back when i suggested all the other default changes
16:29<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, you mean, noway, with original acc mode, just add extra engine blindly?
16:29<Zuu>krinn: do people ask about original accelaration model for AIs? Otherwise, you could also try to disable build_on_slopes and get another challenge in making your AI compatible to that too.
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: don't build hills with original. ever.
16:31<krinn>Zuu: didn't wonder it would be as critical as build_on_slopes settings
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16:31<Eddi|zuHause>build on slopes just makes the game horrible.
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>disabling, i mean
16:33<krinn>for human player it is aweful so an ai expecting it on is not challenging setting that much, but original acc model is diff, i always have it enable until i start testing stuff right now
16:37<andythenorth>I spent fricking ages designing FIRS to avoid short-cutting cargo chains
16:37<andythenorth>but when I actually tried it, it’s fun
16:37<andythenorth>Full FIRS now has ports and bulk terminals
16:37<andythenorth>deliver [otherwise neglected cargoes], get supplies out
16:40<andythenorth>faster faster faster compile :P
16:40*andythenorth had better try new nmlc soon
16:41<krinn>showing age andythenorth when you start repeat yourself :)
16:41<andythenorth>showing lack of sleep
16:41<andythenorth>also words I lose
16:42*krinn thinks "showing lack of sleep" should be top excuse to "aging"
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16:46<andythenorth>51 industries in Full FIRS
16:46<andythenorth>must be enough, right?
16:47<andythenorth>or I should put power plant back? o_O
16:47<andythenorth>I am out of cargoes, otherwise I’d just add ‘Electricity’ cargo, with pylon trains
16:48<andythenorth>ho ho, actually one is spare, sugar beet / sugarcane never appear together
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17:13<alluke>http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc4_1419486874
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18:28<Wolf01>'night
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23:42<supermop>ive been manually drawing rivers and correcting valleys on this heightmap for 3 days
---Logclosed Sat Jan 17 00:00:31 2015