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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-01-20

---Logopened Tue Jan 20 00:00:35 2015
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06:11<@planetmaker>o/
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06:28<V453000>o/
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07:32<Samu>hi
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10:22<krinn>hi (back at twice my speed, my isp finally fix my speed trouble, yeah!)
10:26<Samu>hi
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10:31<@planetmaker>krinn, wtf funky patch is that you attached to fs#6214
10:32<krinn>no idea, what is funky about it?
10:33<@planetmaker>don't you use any version control?
10:33<@planetmaker>--- script_engine.hpp.old 2015-01-20 14:44:00.000000000 +0100
10:33<@planetmaker>+++ script_engine.hpp 2015-01-20 14:44:08.000000000 +0100
10:34<krinn>ah yes, made it against 1.4.4
10:34<@planetmaker>you made a diff between two files. Not a modified file against its base rev.
10:35<@planetmaker>but nvm
10:36<krinn>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/2260f1ed74bf/src/script/api/script_engine.hpp
10:37<krinn>at line 110 in trunk
10:45<krinn>planetmaker, while you are at it, i don't think the pre@ != VT_TRAIN on reliability is also good
10:46<krinn>i'm checking the code to confirm (but it looks odd to not be able to get reliability of train engine)
10:48<krinn>planetmaker, reliability @pre are fine, it just to discard wagons reliability
11:00<krinn>is there any chance the IsRiver patch get apply one day?
11:01<krinn>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5377
11:08<Samu>is frosch here? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6215
11:09<Samu>I wasn't clear with the report
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11:11<Samu>What you say did match my observations. But when I tried to auto-replace engines, the two trains didn't get replaced the same way
11:12<Samu>that's what I think it is bugged
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11:14<Samu>I will try this again, must ninja someone's company though
11:14<Samu>then i post a savegame
11:16<krinn>autorenew doesn't upgrade engine
11:17<krinn>autorenew is to replace old engine with the same one
11:18<Samu>that's not what I see happening
11:19<Samu>it works for both
11:19<Samu>the minimum money part at least
11:19<V453000>frosch123: the new nml compiler is awesome =D
11:19<V453000>1. no more memory errors, 2. seeing the progress of Encoding
11:19<V453000>:0000
11:19<V453000>awesome
11:21<frosch123>:p
11:22<V453000>still fuckslow when cache is empty though :P
11:22<frosch123>hola btw
11:22<V453000>hi :)
11:22<frosch123>if i get around to it, i will finish the multicore patch for nml :)
11:22<frosch123>then you can use all your cores :)
11:22<V453000>:>
11:22<V453000>that would be quite a bomb
11:22<Samu>okay now im setting minimum money to £1,000,000 just to be REAL sure
11:22<V453000>rawr is starting to take long
11:23<V453000>only land/tracks for one climate atm
11:24<V453000>oh and I only got rail so far XD not even mono/mag yet
11:25<V453000>and I want to have at least 4 climates eventually
11:25<V453000>will be wtf long :0
11:25<V453000>wont I run out of memory again? XD
11:25<V453000>got 32gb, guess that is supported?
11:25<V453000>or how does that work now? :)
11:25<frosch123>it now loads only one png at once
11:25<V453000>well I only got 4 pngs :P
11:26<Samu>krinn: it didn't replace to the newer model
11:26<frosch123>so, your biggest png has to stay below your memory limit when uncompressed
11:26<Samu>money limit error
11:26<V453000>10752x28160
11:26<V453000>XD
11:26<V453000>right
11:26<frosch123>@calc 10*30*4
11:26<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 1200
11:26<frosch123>1.2 GB then
11:26<V453000>cute :)
11:27<V453000>the old NML was running memory errors like a boss already with that
11:27<V453000>anyway, tracks coded =D just need to fix some misalignments
11:28<V453000>-> home
11:28<V453000>o/ :)
11:30<Samu>frosch123: https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2pN-FXXDdoD0ZPOE7RPGzzPtQ0g-NlxHwVNwYqmZWBaOh0Vdx36CmPZ6KLAvsOwDKJ6XstBZBmYWm8SimSqYf7AJCPL9Bs5NrdV1jLBo44w2Qz8P7fF2mGZPYloAEXGyyWk9NNOpXwwUlE-E5UM3T3QQ/Overnley%20Transport%2C%201954-04-03.png?psid=1
11:30<Samu>erm, krinn too
11:31<Samu>autorenew money limit works for autoreplace
11:31<frosch123>does that mean i can close the task?
11:32<Samu>no, there is some issue with it
11:32<Samu>krinn was saying autorenew is separare from autoreplace
11:33<frosch123>the moneylimit setting is the same
11:33<krinn>it is, autorenew is per company settings, this doesn't mean autoreplace is also
11:33<krinn>and autoreplace limit is > autorenew
11:33<frosch123>both are company things
11:33<frosch123>no
11:33<krinn>http://wiki.openttd.org/Replace_vehicles -> "The company needs to have more money than (autoreplace money limit) + 2 * (price for new vehicles). "
11:34<krinn>even if "The auto replace money limit is the same limit as the Autorenew minimum needed money configured in Advanced Settings. "
11:35<frosch123>is there "blame" for wiki?
11:35<frosch123>i want to know whether that line was written before 2008
11:36<krinn>that's last info from 1.0
11:36<frosch123>well, it's bollocks
11:36<frosch123>i do not recall it ever being like that
11:36<krinn>i didn't write it :)
11:38<frosch123>oh, it specifically says "ottd 1.0 and newer"?
11:38<frosch123>well, it certainly does not apply for >= 0.6
11:39<frosch123>yeah, someone concatenated info incorrectly
11:40<krinn>i dunno but trusting it mean you need 2* price of new engine in bank + still have the bed money to keep autorenew working
11:40<frosch123>the double limit existed for checking whether a vehicle need servicing
11:41<frosch123>ah, sorry, the wiki is correct
11:41<krinn>it might be to keep autorenew being eaten by autoreplace ; so autoreplace cannot block autorenew
11:41<frosch123>krinn: you are quoting from "servicing" section
11:41<frosch123>that does not trigger the autoreplace limit, it is only a pre-check whether the vehicle should be send to depot at all
11:42<frosch123>the moneylimit is the same for bothj autorenew and replace, once they reach the depot
11:43<Samu>ok, what I observed on yesterday's game which made me create that report was...
11:43<Samu>breakdowns are off on the server, so they never service
11:43<Samu>i instructed to replace the engine to the new one
11:44<Samu>only my created train was replaced asap
11:44<Samu>the other had to wait for my money to build up to £100,000
11:44<Samu>my = company
11:45<frosch123>there are multiple strategies to not send all vehicles to depot at once
11:45<frosch123>so, you may have encountered one of them
11:45<frosch123>there is the increased money requirement, and vehicles can only visit the depot every n days (defined by service interval)
11:45<frosch123>the latter also applies if you have servicing disabled
11:46<frosch123>it's supposed to prevent vehicles going to the depot all the time, if there is only money for a few
11:48<Samu>while waiting for the money, it never really tried to service (no money limit error ever was displayed)
11:49<Samu>i remember checking last service date, it was about 8 years away from current game date
11:49<Samu>train was 7 years old, so that kinda confirms
11:50<Samu>it never serviced
11:50<Samu>but i can try this again, i need someone with different settings than I
11:51<frosch123>start a company, leave the company, change your settings, rejoin
11:51<frosch123>they should switch back on joining
11:51<Samu>but that means only 1 player in the company
11:51<frosch123>you can also make two companies with different settings, and switch between them
11:52<frosch123>the settings are stored on the server. your client only gets them per company
11:54<krinn>you can just also force all trains going to service to not wait, you won't die because some train goes servicing and couldn't be change
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11:57<Samu>this is definitely strange
11:59<Samu>I created my company with my autorenew settings: on, 12 months before, £0
11:59<Samu>now the opposite, someone joins my company
11:59<Samu>I leave
11:59<Samu>company still has got that player on it
11:59<Samu>I rejoin later on, and the settings are different
12:00<Samu>off, 6 months after, £100,000, but he's not in it
12:00<Samu>I doubt he changed them exactly to that
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12:01<Samu>he left somewhere before I rejoined and after I left, am I making sense?
12:04<@peter1138> /win 28
12:08<Samu>I'm gonna do this again
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12:17<Eddi|zuHause>/lose 29
12:18<Samu>i am now absolutely sure I'm testing it right
12:18<Samu>be back later with results
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14:05<@Alberth>hi hi
14:05<Wolf01>hello o/
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14:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27123 /trunk/src/script/api (script_engine.hpp script_station.hpp) (2015-01-20 19:11:31 UTC)
14:11<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5371] [FS#6214]: API docs (krinn)
14:13<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: is fs#6216 the thing you keep on telling about variety distribution on non-rectangular maps?
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>not really
14:15<@Alberth>isn't Eddi talking about streched mountains ?
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>also, variety distribution got tweaked since i last used it
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i was talking about stretched mountains, which was supposedly fixed by some tiling mechanism. this is something very different
14:18<@Alberth>it looks like the smallest amplitude ended up at water level, filling 1/2 of the wave with water
14:19<Samu>this really irks me, I can't reproduce the issues I had yesterday
14:21<Samu>the engine costs £67,187, the formula is 0+2*67,187
14:22<Samu>£134,374 is when the train(s) will attempt auto-replace, right?
14:23<@Alberth>no, they try every now and then
14:23<@Alberth>they don't monitor money
14:23<V453000>omg Samu the person of endless problems is back
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>they attempt autoreplace every time they go to depot for servicing
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14:24<@Alberth>in the general case, you can only find out if you can replace a vehicle by actually attempting
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>just the autoreplace will fail, and they leave again without being replaced, if you don't have enough
14:24<@Alberth>hi hi andy, V
14:25<Samu>alberth, the "now and then" is exactly how?
14:25<Samu>they're not even trying
14:26<@Alberth>depends on your servicing settings
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>if breakdowns are disabled, they never try to autorenew, only autoreplace
14:26<Samu>they're default, 150 days, breakdowns are disabled
14:26<Samu>yes that
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>also, they don't go to depot if the depot is too far away
14:27<@Alberth>have a depot in the orders? then they also don't look for a depot
14:27<Samu>depot is really close to both trains
14:27<Samu>no depot in orders
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>the depot may be "too far away" if the track reservation is very long
14:27<andythenorth>o/
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>because once the track is reserved, it cannot be deviated from
14:28<@Alberth>where "very long" can also mean many signals
14:28<Samu>no signals, it's a very simple route, both of them
14:28<Samu>each with 1 depot
14:29<Samu>about 25 tiles distant
14:29<@Alberth>you're replacing to a different model, right?
14:29<Samu>yes
14:30<Samu>ok, small problem with one of the routes i have, it's not electrified
14:30<Samu>darn, i ruined the test
14:30<andythenorth>where is cat?
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>miau.
14:31<@Alberth>sleeping
14:32<Samu>if I now loan £500,000 will I see both trains auto-replace?
14:32<Samu>hmm, well i'm still gonna wait for £100,000 - it's slowly building up
14:33<@Alberth>save, try, load save game
14:34<Samu>I can't exactly do that for this testing
14:34<Samu>there's 2 players in the company
14:34<Samu>that's the purpose of my testings
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>i guess your whole test is based on a misconception, rather than an actual bug
14:37<NGC3982>!imdb into the woods
14:37<NGC3982>Oh my. Wrong channel.
14:37<andythenorth>he
14:37<V453000>cat says rawr loudly, cant you hear it
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>must be a big cat.
14:38<@Alberth>it just wants food
14:38-!-Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:38<andythenorth>cat needs to do my tax return
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>there was a study that found that cats' purring operates at a frequency that induces bone growth
14:39<@Alberth>not sure you'd get much returned then :)
14:40<NGC3982>Eddi: Fascinating.
14:40<Wolf01>I read that too
14:40<NGC3982>In the world of Bill Bryson: "That evolution thing is remarkable. It can't therefor be true by all scientific means".
14:41*andythenorth has forgotten why evolution isn’t considered a scientifically valid theory
14:41<NGC3982>I just listened trough A short history of nearly everything. Everyone should read it.
14:46<Samu>so far, neither train attempted to service
14:46-!-gelignite [~gelignite@i5387abfc.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT]
14:46<Samu>that's a long enough time for "now and then"
14:47<Samu>still under £100k,but over £70k
14:47<frosch123>maybe your testcase is too complex :)
14:47<Samu>eddi might be right
14:53<Samu>I'm at £100k
14:53-!-naliao [~Naliao@107-133-209-15.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
14:54<Samu>looks like £134k will be when the trains attempt auto-replace, so there goes the bug
14:54<Samu>there is no bug
14:55<V453000>Samu why dont you just play the game? :D
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14:55<Samu>i was doing something else
14:56<V453000>also, baldys boss is the biggest boss of the day
14:56<Samu>https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?52807-PSCheck-settings-to-apply-on-Windows-startup-or-BIOS-if-possible&p=468941#post468941
14:56<Samu>writting that thing
14:56<V453000>What I meant was, why dont you play the game instead of asking about every stupid detail of it. :)
15:00<andythenorth>baldy’s boss is boos
15:00<andythenorth>boos?
15:00<andythenorth>boss
15:00*andythenorth is not boss
15:00*andythenorth is lame
15:01*andythenorth is shirking tax returns
15:01<andythenorth>bah
15:01<andythenorth>I have been playing a game
15:01<andythenorth>it’s called OpenTTD
15:02<andythenorth>you should all try it
15:02<Samu>very close to £134k
15:04<V453000>XD
15:04<V453000>this channel is getting awesome by the second
15:04<V453000> /working on monorail model :>
15:05<Samu>train 1 is replaced, bug debunked... is not a bug, ok sorry all :(
15:05<andythenorth>monorial? o_O
15:05<andythenorth>is that a kind of zellepin?
15:05<Samu>you may close the bug report frosch123
15:05<V453000>andythenerdth and the bi-rail horses and stuff :P
15:05<V453000>need moar futurizm
15:05<V453000>community demands it
15:06<@Alberth>some of it :)
15:06<andythenorth>some of it
15:06*andythenorth considers futurisms
15:07<andythenorth>never did figure it ou
15:07<andythenorth>out *
15:07<V453000>xd
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>a "bi-rail" is just a regular rail?
15:07-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
15:07<V453000>yes!
15:07<V453000>I just called it that way to make monorail seem more normal :P
15:08<krinn>oh, nothing about loving both gender so
15:10-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: might be a "di-rail"
15:10<V453000> /CARE XD
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>like in "di-hydrogen-mon-oxide"
15:12-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit []
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise it would need to be a "uni-rail"
15:14<V453000>I hereby declare it ass-rail
15:16<krinn>just need to build shittytrain to run on it then
15:17*Eddi|zuHause wonders why that's not already in NUTS
15:19<frosch123>my cellphone has a year 2015 bug
15:19<frosch123>it does accept the year 2015 as valid date, i guess i run it on 2014 then :p
15:20<frosch123>*not
15:20<@Alberth>lol
15:21<frosch123>i guess the manufacturer assumed that noone would run the same cellphone for 7 years
15:28-!-Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
15:29<Rubidium>sounds like the same manufacturer that used (year % 10) in (0, 4, 8) for leap years
15:30<Samu>Why can't I place signals on bridge headers
15:30<frosch123>should be fine if you bought it in 1987
15:30<Samu>just wondering
15:31<frosch123>er,, 1999
15:31<@Alberth>Samu: bridges don't exist, they are just a visual illusion
15:31<frosch123>i believe there is a patch on the forums for that
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15:32<Samu>just the header, not the bridge tile
15:32<Samu>the ramp
15:32<frosch123>signals on bridge heads is still easier than signals on bridge
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>i think the problem with signals on bridge heads was that a train on the bridge ignores a signal on the exit, because it doesn't enter a new tile
15:35<krinn>if you can't build signal on the bridge itself, there no real need for signal on bridge head anyway, a lot of pain to get 1 tile
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>au contraire. a lot is gained by that one tile already
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15:37<krinn>i don't see how
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>like in a city you can make the tunnels longer
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>tunnel-signal-station-signal-tunnel
15:37<frosch123>i set it to 2009, then the weekday is correct
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>if you can reduce that from 8 tiles to 6, it is a lot
15:38<andythenorth>yes
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15:40<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, i don't get it, if you can do tunnel-signal-station, you can do bridge-signal-station
15:40<krinn>can we do singal at start of tunnel now?
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>tunnel entrance is the same as bridge head
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>so if you could place on a bridge head, you could also place on a tunnel entrance
15:46<krinn>well, if you do bridge head signal, people will ask looping next, better keep the bridge head signal query for a while (or code openttdcoster soon)
15:46<frosch123>it's called freerct
15:47<@Alberth>/me wakes up
15:47<krinn>but it do like rct not like ttd+rct
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15:47<frosch123>i guess to increase the hamming distance and avoid confusion
15:47<frosch123>Alberth: your /me is still broken :p
15:48<@Alberth>not here
15:48<Samu>signals on tunnels would be cool too
15:48*krinn thinks alberth /me is broken too
15:49<Samu>how would a road vehicle know that there is another vehicle inside the tunnel?
15:49<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/broken_me.png
15:49<@Alberth>but it is in the log
15:49<@Alberth>weird
15:50*andythenorth had a broken /me recently too
15:50<andythenorth>dunno what fixed it
15:51<Samu>you managed to make train stations also act as they have a signal in them
15:52<andythenorth>is that a misconception?
15:52<@Alberth>unlikely, broken /me hasn't that much power
15:52<andythenorth>I often think stations have signals in, but they don’t, right?
15:52<@Alberth>they don't indeed
15:52<Samu>I dunno, but they interact fine when I use path signals
15:52<andythenorth>just train won’t try to reserve path until leaving?
15:53<@Alberth>if turning around, yes
15:53<@Alberth>if not turning around, it still has a path
15:53<andythenorth>I always explicitly path signal stations, am I wasting my time?
15:53<andythenorth>:)
15:53<andythenorth>1 tile at each exit, with a signal facing the station
15:54<@Alberth>with roro, it makes the reserved path end at the end of the station platform, no waste of time
15:55<@Alberth>with terminus, it's not needed, although there is a difference. If you add a signal, the train will turn, reserve upto the signal, and when arriving at the signal, reserve a path further
15:55<@Alberth>without signal, it first reserves a path before moving at all
15:55<andythenorth>so shorter travel distance
15:55<andythenorth>between blocks
15:55<@Alberth>also, with a signal, it looks prettier :)
15:55<andythenorth>but more space needed per station
15:55<andythenorth>yes
15:56<@Alberth>I prefer to have 1 straight track from the platform anyway, so no extra space
15:57<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7025/Bubblewell%20Transport,%2006-10-1910.png
15:57<andythenorth>oh I forgot to signal the north-most station :o
15:59<andythenorth>ho http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7026/Bubblewell%20Transport,%2006-10-1910%232.png
15:59<andythenorth>because normal rail and narrow gauge
16:00<V453000>not like the difference is actually well visible XD
16:00<@Alberth>north-most station should not be a problem, although you may want to move the two-way path signal just north of the junction
16:00<krinn>2nd picture looks more like a carrier than a railnetwork
16:00<V453000>nyway, monorail dun
16:01<@Alberth>looking GOOD ?
16:01<@peter1138>That double-size UI...
16:01<V453000>idk waiting for rendering tomorrow :P
16:02<V453000>for now, gnight
16:02<@Alberth>gnight V
16:02<krinn>night V453000
16:02<@Alberth>dream lovely monorail dreams :)
16:06<andythenorth>peter1138: 2x UI ftw
16:06<andythenorth>innit
16:08<@Alberth>gn
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16:32<Samu>have you considered a global chat server in openttd?
16:33<Samu>ppl would be able to chat in it
16:33<Samu>no matter which game they have joined, they would always be connected to that chat
16:34<andythenorth>we could troll without having to play the game
16:34<andythenorth>would be awesome
16:35<Samu>so it's a bad idea
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16:35<krinn>it exist already, i think it's named #openttd
16:36<Samu>no, not this
16:38<Samu>to have the game itself always joining the same chat channel
16:38<Samu>as a choice
16:38<Samu>arg, i suck at explaining things
16:38<+glx>there was a wrapper doing that
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>yes, admin port can forward chat to a channel
16:39<@planetmaker>g'evening
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>so several servers could agree to forward to the same channel
16:39<@planetmaker>reddit servers do that with chat forwarding
16:40<Samu>what is the server which we retrieve the list of games?
16:40<Samu>the chat would be built upon that
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>if you build it, they will come.
16:41<@planetmaker>oh no. That's not the purpose of the master server
16:41<@planetmaker>using soap with admin port you could do that already now within an arbitrary irc channel
16:41-!-Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has joined #openttd
16:42<@planetmaker>thus I don't think it's needed
16:42<Samu>soap?
16:42<@planetmaker>an admin port client
16:43<Samu>ah, i see, I'm searching, yeah, that could be it
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16:45<andythenorth>hmm
16:45<andythenorth>I dunno
16:46<andythenorth>managing replacing vehicles is a faff
16:46<andythenorth>‘create group from vehicles with this shared order’
16:46<andythenorth>might be a more useful version of ‘find vehicle by number (in list of several hundred), create new group drag vehicle to group, add shared vehicles'
16:47<Samu>I see, each individual server would forward chat to one irc server?
16:47<andythenorth>also, filter train list by ‘trains containing vehicle type x'
16:47<Samu>why not just have everyone connect directly to that irc server instead?
16:47<Samu>independent of server
16:48<+glx>because not everybody want this
16:48<Samu>okay, trolls are bad then
16:50<andythenorth>apart from nobody plays, it would be really noisy
16:50<andythenorth>also what would they talk about?
16:50<andythenorth>all playing different games
16:50<andythenorth>so the chat would be full of non-useful chat :)
16:51<Samu>they would have the ability to chose to where to chat to
16:51<Samu>shift+enter, ctrl+enter, hmm alt+enter...
16:51<Samu>dunno
16:51<Samu>and could toggle that chat off or on somewhere in settings
16:52<+glx>already used for global and team chat IIRC
16:57<frosch123>Samu: stop reinventing the wheel
16:57<Samu>:(
16:57<Samu>ok
16:57<frosch123>there is no point in every piece of software having all functions
16:57<frosch123>openttd will not get a harddisk backup option
16:58<frosch123>and no spreadsheet application
16:58<frosch123>just run a separate chat and music software
16:58<krinn>speaking about systemd?
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17:13<FLHerne>I quite like systemd having all functions
17:13<deniz1a>hello. is there a way to show the catchment area of existing stations?
17:13<FLHerne>It saves me having to care about anything that isn't systemd, since those things are almost always less nice to deal with
17:14<FLHerne>deniz1a: No, unless it got added and I haven't noticed yet
17:14<deniz1a>oh ok
17:14<@planetmaker>deniz1a, unfortunately no(t that I know)
17:14<frosch123>deniz1a: no, it's obfuscated because the game mechanics are so arbitrary there :)
17:14<deniz1a>ok thanks
17:14<@planetmaker>besides there's two definitions of catchment area - which makes it somewhat difficult to add :)
17:15<frosch123>yeah, adding a visualisation would certainly come along with making them more sane :)
17:15<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Catchment_area
17:15<frosch123>i think someone even had a patch for that, juanjo probably
17:15<frosch123>is that his name? nor sure
17:15<@planetmaker>there was one... dunno by whom
17:15<krinn>denizla: for that i use the build a new station tool and put it over the one i want to get its area
17:15<@planetmaker>it's a valid name of a contributor, yes
17:15<deniz1a>when you join different stations, the area between them is also added to the catchment area, right?
17:16<@planetmaker>depends :) Read the wiki page
17:16<frosch123>anyway, the patch stored the catchment area as bitmask-matrix in the station struct, so was efficient
17:16<deniz1a>ok thanks
17:16<@planetmaker>hm, why didn't we use it then, frosch123 ? :)
17:17<frosch123>it's probably burried in the todo list somewhere :)
17:17<krinn>next to IsWaterTile? :)
17:17<krinn>IsRiverTile
17:17<frosch123>i digged up krinn's nov 2012 patch earlier today from it :p
17:18<deniz1a>i use zbase+pineapple trains+grvts32 and the game looks awesome :)
17:18<frosch123>looked for api doc fixes :p
17:18<@planetmaker>dig dug dug?
17:19<@planetmaker>hehe
17:19<krinn>it was "dig dig dug" no ?
17:19<NGC3982>Thank you jesus for this grub.
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17:21<@planetmaker>dig dug dug or dig digged digged :)
17:21<krinn>frosch123, i think someone made a more recent version from forum
17:22-!-Progman [~progman@p57A19D3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:23<krinn>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=70203
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17:38<krinn>never really check but what the "sea level" option do on map creation?
17:39<frosch123>percentage of sea
17:39<frosch123>islands vs. all-land
17:39<krinn>you mean % of sea area vs land area?
17:39<frosch123>yes
17:40*andythenorth did a silly thing, splitting SGBT / SGCN by economy :P
17:40<andythenorth>by climate rather
17:40<andythenorth>now I have to special case all my generated docs :D
17:40<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
17:40<krinn>frosch123, so water is always at level 1?
17:40<frosch123>level 0 :p
17:41<krinn>lol yeah 0
17:41<frosch123>there are some patches on the forums with water depths
17:41<krinn>oh shitty, so we could detect river vs sea as river couldn't be 0 then!
17:41<frosch123>but they have the problem that flooding over multiple levels is weird
17:41<Samu>speaking of water
17:41<frosch123>krinn: untrue
17:42<frosch123>boith rivers and canals can be at level 0
17:42<FLHerne>krinn: River can be 0, sea doesn't flood river
17:42<Samu>nevermind... i rather not ask
17:42<frosch123>anyway, the whole issue with the api functions is that they behave so inconsistently
17:42<FLHerne>I don't think the map generator does it, but scenarios might
17:42<frosch123>a ship depot tile is a ship depot tile, but it is a canal/river/sea tile at the same time
17:42<krinn>from what i see, river "falls" into sea
17:43<frosch123>similar for tree tiles, vs. land/coast tiles
17:43<frosch123>krinn: the generated rivers behave like that, but scenedit can do other things
17:43<Samu>are you forbidding river destruction?
17:43<frosch123>can you can use canals in game to stop flooding, and build at level 0
17:43<@planetmaker>krinn, yet you can have at lv0 have river and canal tiles. They are not flooded as they're already water
17:44<krinn>well, it mean AI can detect river except with scenario but using current API still no?
17:44-!-Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has joined #openttd
17:44<@planetmaker>it's a common way to build rail tracks at lv0, frosch123 :)
17:45<krinn>if i see a water tile, i could assume if height >= 1 it's a river
17:45<@planetmaker>or a canal
17:45<Samu>it would be cool if river tiles were undestructible by any means
17:45<krinn>canal aren't a problem you can detect canal tile
17:46<@planetmaker>krinn, and at height 0 it might still be a river or canal with slope
17:46<@planetmaker>thus coast
17:47<krinn>tbh, mistaking river and sea on coast is less a problem, you know it will cost you a lot
17:48<Samu>could the river generator be a bit more lock friendly? locks take 1x3 tiles, and the rivers sometimes make a turn right away after the ramp
17:48<andythenorth>hmm
17:48<andythenorth>FIRS fruit plantation is ugly
17:48<andythenorth>maybe I could fix it
17:49<andythenorth>also bedtime
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17:49<krinn>but ability to find a tile with water is just a river and not some fine water area imply diff cost: river can be clear, water couldn't
17:50<krinn>well, water could, but remain there after clear (only wasting money)
17:51<Samu>oh krinn, u got a nice idea
17:51<Samu>rivers should be water :p
17:51<Samu>u destroy it, it refils
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17:53<krinn>yeah sure, and why not wind generator to sea where a tree will fall when clear?
17:53<krinn> /ssea/see (too much see/sea)
17:54<Samu>is it a bad suggestion?
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes
17:54<Samu>hmm, can't see why
17:55<krinn>we knows, that's why it's bad
17:57<frosch123>night
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17:57<Samu>would be bad for the AI?
17:58<Samu>AI building a rail piece on a cleared river tile that would eventually be flodded with water later on?
17:58<Samu>flood
18:00<krinn>it could happen already, i don't think any AI check it build on level 0
18:07<Samu>brb
18:09<Samu>trying to familiarize with the area names
18:10<Samu>upon land area information on a Coast tile, it comes up with 'Coast or riverbank'
18:11<Samu>a waterfall tile says: "River"
18:13<Samu>lake tiles are also 'river', hmm, ok. So clearing a lake tile will not cause it to refill with water. Is that intended?
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18:14<krinn>yes
18:16<Samu>I was suggesting that 'river' tiles would refill with water, if adjacent with 'water' tiles
18:17<Samu>but I can see there could be an issue with lakes
18:17<Samu>upon lake generation, these tiles are not connected to 'water' tiles
18:18<krinn>river are candy eyes, any change to that status would mean openttd have to do work with them for special case: what do you prefer having 100 cars running in your game before your cpu is dead or 3 cars only because openttd keep handling things nobody cares?
18:21<Samu>I don't undestand the difference
18:21<Samu>there's tons of water already
18:23<Samu>is it because water flooding can't go up terrain levels? there's only a few rivers in comparison to the amount of 'water' tiles
18:25<krinn>can only flood at level0, but without checking code, i'm sure if any river is set at level0, the river will endup flooded too, i don't think anyone cares to preserved a rivertile from flooding
18:26<Flygon_>All this talk of water
18:26<Flygon_>Makes me wish water depth was a thing
18:26-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
18:26<Flygon>Kinda wishing terrain height came in signed integers
18:26<Flygon>:P
18:26<@planetmaker>Flygon, easy to add by adding a sea_level_height
18:26<@planetmaker>treat everything below as sea
18:27<Flygon>You just gave me a bitchin' idea
18:27<Flygon>Atlantis terrain type
18:27<Flygon>Aircraft are submarines :D
18:27<Flygon>Can't have electric trains, so
18:27<krinn>yeah, and next idea would be typhon event!
18:27<Flygon>They'll be phenumatically powered
18:27<Wolf01>'night
18:27<Flygon>'night, man
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18:28<Flygon>Also I want a Phen Card
18:28<Flygon>B> Phen Card
18:28<Flygon>1m
18:29<krinn>wish someone made submarine able to sink other players ships, so my AI can seek & destroy
18:30<Samu>arg I wish i could explain things clearer
18:31<Flygon>(Atlantis's 'oceans' would be 'Abysses' in the ocean floor)
18:31<Samu>a river tile boundary, the sides of a river so to speak, can't this limit where the flood goes to?
18:32<@planetmaker>krinn, that's against the project mission :)
18:32<Flygon>I'd love if water
18:32<Flygon>Could, say
18:32<Flygon>Be multi-leveled
18:32<Flygon>As in...
18:32<Flygon>Ocean styled water
18:32<Flygon>So we can have rivers with diagonal tiles
18:32<krinn>planetmaker, yeah, but it would be soooooo evil and cool
18:32<supermop>i'd love if a game would let me start in july rather than january
18:32<Flygon>You'd rather start a game in Winter?
18:33<Samu>meh, I guess I give up
18:33<krinn>planetmaker, and gives AI ability to call the chopper and gave it the target instead of that poor ufo :)
18:33<@planetmaker>:D
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>yeh, just make an inverse snowline height grf
18:33<supermop>if you play with a northern hemisphere mindset, which I assume many do, all of your potential farmland may be covered in snow at map creation
18:33<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, tsunami-height grf? :D
18:34<supermop>so you have to wait for farms to start spawning
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think that is a game feature :p
18:34<@planetmaker>supermop, use ogfx+landscape and set snowline height accordingly. You can choose summer in January
18:34<supermop>and can't place them in SE
18:34<supermop>planetmaker: what if i want summer in july
18:34<Flygon>I play with a Southern Hemisphere mindset
18:34<supermop>but also want to place farms in scenario editor
18:35<Flygon>Also when I play a European or American map
18:35<@planetmaker>then choose snowline accordingly...
18:35<Flygon>I place cars on the left
18:35<Samu>arf... gonna paintbush some river tiles, be right back, maybe then it will be clearer
18:35<Flygon>I simply can't build a road network trying to remember that interchanges need to be built a non_Australian way x.x
18:35<supermop>but farms should stilll be snowwy in winter
18:36<krinn>(i think we're half way to get the "we need rain" query)
18:36<supermop>basically just the ability to set current month in SE would help a lot
18:36<@planetmaker>supermop, you can't have it simply run a few months?
18:36<supermop>the editor date doesnt change if you leave it unpaused
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18:37<supermop>you would have to start game, let it run 6 mo, save then edit again
18:38<krinn>going bed before samu ask cops to tickets speeding cars
18:38<supermop>not impossible but certainly odd and then you have a company already in your scenario
18:38<krinn>night
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18:38<@planetmaker>supermop, ah, yes. Though you can delete the company again
18:39<supermop>seems like there would have been enough maniacs playing canadian games to have requested this already...
18:40<supermop>let alone midwestern americans, russians, and anyone else who lives where the lowlands are snowcovered in winter
18:41<supermop>Flygon: for australian games what point does snow serve? I've never seen snow here
18:42<Flygon>supermop: Seriously?
18:42<Flygon>I live like
18:42<Flygon>20 minutes from where it snows
18:42<Flygon>And I live in Sunbury. :|
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18:49<supermop>almost done placing all rivers on this Oahu map
18:49<supermop>its been about a week
18:50<supermop>just onee more small basin in the north west to do
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18:53<supermop>ok
18:53<supermop>too bad by now i have no desire to play this thing
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19:00<Flygon>Oahu?
19:01<Samu>so here's my paint-shop work on river tiles: https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2pE5dcRaT6gvEfs9_ccqA9tn3mKMeZibX3SqbXMCiQZv2xLnQzVGpq6hRg0dF-vCAv4dCUdn8obsSebPZFQfwVLHq5oVUqvVCxziNHaNkT-73X0nFP-QQuDAMCLsci3RRiZDlAKxlYWno5iVtXiGA4gg/Dried%20river%20paint-shopped.png?psid=1
19:02<Samu>I hope it's clear enough what I was trying to explain
19:03<Samu>if a player destroys a river tile, it's simply turning it into a dried river tile, per that explanation
19:03<supermop>hawaiian island which contains Honolulu, Waikiki, Pearl Harbour
19:04<supermop>has the most interesting geography/topography in my opinion
19:04<supermop>Although This map is using finnish town names, temperate climate, and swiss trains
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19:05<supermop>and i've put rivers in the valleys on the west side of the island which in real life is currently fairly dry for the past thousand years or so
19:06<supermop>as all the wind and rain comes from the east and is trapped by high mountains
19:07<supermop>i can't remember which firs economy this one has in it
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19:10<Samu>since there's lakes that aren't connected to water tiles, a player could simply dry an entire lake by clearing the tiles all in one go
19:11<supermop>yep
19:11<supermop>i can also dry a real lake by filling it with dirt
19:11<supermop>or digging drainage trenches away from it
19:11<Samu>ew... I tried to explain things as best I could
19:12<Samu>a player could build rains or road, whatever, on top of dried river tiles
19:12<Samu>rails*
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 21 00:00:37 2015