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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-01-27

---Logopened Tue Jan 27 00:00:46 2015
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02:26<andythenorth>o/
02:28<V453000>heyooooo
02:28<V453000>RAWR approaches
02:28<V453000>nice industry you got there andy
02:29<V453000>insufficient pixel count but they are lickey enough
02:30<andythenorth>bit more tweaking
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02:42<Supercheese>a wild RAWR appears?
02:42<V453000>yayyyy
02:42<Supercheese>>Fight >Items >Run
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03:40<@peter1138>Hmm, is QC loading for anyone?
03:44<Taco_>Whats a qc?
03:44<Taco_>aside from a really good barrister?
03:45<Supercheese>Questionable Content perhaps
03:45<Supercheese>popular webcomic
03:46<@peter1138>^ that
03:48<V453000>loads fer me
03:56<andythenorth>cba to code this mine
03:56<andythenorth>maybe that’s enough newgrf for a bit
03:56<V453000>XD
03:58<@planetmaker>loads just fine, peter1138
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04:20<V453000>http://i.giftrunk.com/rztg3z.gif
04:21<andythenorth>ha
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04:26<V453000>road crossing models done :> postproduction magix and lets get on with coding =D
04:26<V453000>got no crossing signals yet though :>
04:27<andythenorth>over-rated
04:27<andythenorth>go minimalist
04:27<V453000>I will add them eventually, even got the stuff prepared to do that
04:28<V453000>definitely later though :)
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04:29<V453000>I have needs to bananize nao
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05:07<@planetmaker><V453000> http://i.giftrunk.com/rztg3z.gif <-- you're crazy ;) But then, we knew that :P
05:07<andythenorth>or he’s the only sane one
05:10<V453000>that thing is not my creation pm so there has to be at least one more person :P
05:15<@planetmaker>your girl friend, V453000? ;)
05:17-!-luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
05:20<V453000>no some unknown internet person :D
05:21<V453000>my girlfriend is supportive but not quite obsessed :D
05:21<@planetmaker>:D
05:21<@peter1138>natvWhat's crazy about that?
05:21<@peter1138>er
05:21<@peter1138>What's crazy about that?
05:22<@peter1138>Bubble Dragons
05:23<V453000>point.
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06:32<krinn>2015: from start of year, internet, my m/b server and my car battery died... now the tv died
06:33<krinn>gonna be a real good year for me
06:37<@peter1138>TV's unnecessary anyway.
06:37<@peter1138>Unless it's your monitor.
06:40<krinn>yeah not as vital, but boring
06:56<@planetmaker>TV... don't have one for about 8 years now or so
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08:10<V453000>ok so I got all of my sprites for one climate coded. How should I make the logic around identifying climate AND let the player choose which climate he wants to force visually?
08:10<V453000>aka I want one parameter Auto/Temperate/Arctic/Tropic/Toyland
08:10<V453000>with Auto automatically detecting current climate
08:10<V453000>how should I do that?
08:10<andythenorth>nested if?
08:10<andythenorth>if auto param == true
08:10<andythenorth>check climate
08:10<andythenorth>if auto param = false
08:11<andythenorth>if climate = player choice
08:11<andythenorth>is one wya
08:11<andythenorth>way *
08:11<andythenorth>probably others
08:12<V453000>hm
08:14<V453000>asdf cant access ttwiki
08:14<V453000>"games not allowed"
08:14<V453000>stupid office :D
08:16<V453000>right so climate == TEMPERATE
08:20<V453000>how can I write this? if (param_climate == 0) AND (climate == TEMPERATE) OR (param_climate == 1) {
08:21<V453000>temperate is if parameter is 0 and climate is temperate, or if parameter is 1
08:22<V453000>what is || or !| or idk how is it written, can I do something like that even?
08:22<andythenorth>probably nest the brackets
08:22<andythenorth>yes
08:22<andythenorth>you can do it
08:22<andythenorth>I can’t write code in my head, only with my fingers
08:22<andythenorth>I’d actually have to write it for you :P
08:22<andythenorth>but busy
08:22<andythenorth>:)
08:22<V453000>just one line please? :P
08:27<krinn>if (param_client == 1 || (param_climate ==0 && climate == TEMPERATE)) {
08:28<krinn> /sclient/climate :)
08:28<V453000>=D thanks so much <3
08:28<V453000>was already reading up on those || && things :D
08:30<andythenorth>could have been ‘or’ and ‘and’ symbols :P
08:30<andythenorth>nvm
08:30<andythenorth>ship sailed
08:31<@planetmaker>V453000, you can steal the code for climate selection from ogfx+landscape basically
08:31<V453000>if this works what krinn wrote then I will use that, looks simple enough :P
08:32<krinn>if || is logical or and && logical and it should
08:32<@planetmaker>yeah... it's basically what ogfx+landscape uses
08:33<@planetmaker>similar, though not identical. Depends on param definition
08:35<@planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-landscape/repository/entry/src/header.pnml#L148
08:35<@planetmaker>basically I define a custom variable to be used in the NewGRF further down in order to avoid doing the same calculation over and over
08:36<@planetmaker>to_use_climate = param_landscape - 1;
08:37<krinn>funny never look at grf coding, what ttd_platofmr could be?
08:37<@planetmaker>if (param_landscape == 0) { to_use_climate = climate; }
08:37<@planetmaker>krinn, OpenTTD / TTDPatch
08:37<@planetmaker>basically: ignore, when using NML. It produces NewGRFs only usable by OpenTTD
08:37<krinn>oh, more a grf_plaform than ttd_plaform naming so :)
08:38<krinn>that grf code looks like c
08:38<@planetmaker>but actually... we can safely remove that variable... TTDP will fail to come to a point to actually check it due to grfv8 ;)
08:39<@planetmaker>it was sensible for nml 0.2.x and earlier in times of grf v7
08:39<krinn>ttdpatch doesn't handle v8?
08:40<@planetmaker>no. It was invented post mortem ttdp
08:56<V453000>ok I think I got it :D finish render, make sprites, try compile :D
09:05*andythenorth contemplates giving V a compile-time flag to only use low res placeholder graphics
09:05<andythenorth>for faster
09:06<V453000>wat
09:07<andythenorth>how long is your compile?
09:07<V453000>no idea yet
09:07<V453000>but the 1/4th one was about 10-15min I think
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09:09<andythenorth>I don’t know how 32bpp compiles work
09:09<andythenorth>but eh, that’s a long time
09:09<V453000>32bpp = turtle fast
09:09<andythenorth>nothing in your rawr repo?
09:09<V453000>nay not yet
09:10<andythenorth>dunno if it’s a valid improvement, but if I was doing 32bpp, I would do something like:
09:10<andythenorth>for a realsprite
09:10<andythenorth>“src/graphics/${graphics_dir}/lovely_horse.png"
09:11<andythenorth>and then graphics_dir is a var set to ’32bpp’ or ‘low_res'
09:11<V453000>Encoding: 1/7149
09:11<V453000>good luck computer
09:11<andythenorth>and then have the render job output a super low-res version
09:11<andythenorth>for testing of code only
09:11<V453000>sure sure
09:11<V453000>for code I dont think there is anything that should be breaking atm
09:12<andythenorth>I have no patience for slow compiles :)
09:12<V453000>the logic worked for 3 sprites, should as well work for 2500
09:12<andythenorth>baseset has no code really?
09:12<V453000>I have it as newgrf atm
09:16<@planetmaker>andythenorth, the encoding is not a problem for the 2nd run as nmlc caches it all
09:17<@planetmaker>switching and using lowres / highres would *increase* the time
09:17<andythenorth>agreed
09:17<andythenorth>why are his jobs so long then? o_O
09:20<krinn>does nmlc produce object and link them at end or simply link what was just build?
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09:27<V453000>yeah with cache it is ridiculouslyh fast :)
09:28<V453000>5820/7149 now :)
09:28<V453000>aaaafter... 17 minutes
09:28<V453000>looks good
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09:28<andythenorth>lo Belugas
09:32<@Belugas>sir andythenorth :) good day
09:32<V453000>heyoooo
09:33<@Belugas>hello to you too, and allthe others silently watching over hahaha!
09:33<krinn>hello then
09:35<@planetmaker>o/
09:36<krinn>planetmaker, nmlc/action0.py def in_range(self, addr, length): return addr >= 0 and addr + length - 1 <= self.last ---> in_range(someaddr, -1) :)
09:37<@planetmaker>krinn, nmlc first builds a symbolic expression tree, then builds the grf from that
09:38<@planetmaker>what do you want to tell me with that quote, krinn ?
09:39<krinn>i must say i'm impress by nmlc, you guys did a nice job
09:39<krinn>planetmaker, with -1 you're goes out of bound, while it should return true
09:40<krinn>addr>0 and addr-2 < self.last
09:41<@planetmaker>so you argue it misses a check on the length argument, that length is positive?
09:41<krinn>yep
09:42<krinn>dunno why someone would do that ; but bugs might
09:43<@planetmaker>the only call to that function is in line 256 of the same file. The length argument is always positive :)
09:44<krinn>num_ids is check >0 ?
09:47<@planetmaker>num_ids are by definition in the code > 0. It's part of the grfspecs
09:48<krinn>and people never pass out of specs values :)
09:48<@planetmaker>people cannot write that. It's nml internal stuff
09:49<krinn>ok (find_unused and some other were sharing the same problem)
09:49<V453000>memory error :(
09:49<@planetmaker>however, I definitely do not want to discourage you. And patches to nml are gladly accepted
09:50<@planetmaker>at least assertions could be placed on these things
09:50<V453000>XD worked upon retrying
09:50<krinn><- know 0 in python, know 0 in c, know 0 in so many stuff :)
09:52<krinn>know just enough to say: <krinn> i must say i'm impress by nmlc, you guys did a nice job
09:53<@planetmaker>though there's line 374 of action0.py which asserts on len = num_ids
09:54<krinn>where is nmlc code (i have only eddi fork one, and it gets odd to find where is line 374 in it, as it doesn't have the len = num_ids check)
09:57<@planetmaker>same place as eddi's fork really
09:57<@planetmaker>except to leave out the eddi- part
09:59<krinn>grftools is nmlc?
10:06<krinn>ok later guys
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11:03<andythenorth>where cat?
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11:19<andythenorth>V453000: roads are good, it’s getting there
11:19<andythenorth>those buildings are ZBase?
11:19<V453000>yeah
11:19<V453000>last re-rendering and publishing stuff soon :)
11:20<andythenorth>you going to recreate original TTD builings in your own style? Or invent 100% new?
11:20<V453000>tbh I hate how ogfx and zbase just recreates original
11:20<V453000>I think I might keep parts of them, but mostly new
11:20<V453000>will see how creative I get
11:21<V453000>the original still kind of has something magical in it :)
11:21<andythenorth>yeah
11:21<andythenorth>but recreating in 32bpp lets the magic smoke out
11:22<@planetmaker>V453000, creating originally new ones is the way to go! :)
11:22<V453000>:)
11:22<@planetmaker>but there are a few constraints... mind the name of the buildings you draw. They should make sense
11:23<@planetmaker>and the animation / palette re-colouring makes sense to keep in mind for those where it matters
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11:25<andythenorth>how to explain...
11:25<andythenorth>the original is based on pixel art cheats you can get away with due to contrast
11:25<andythenorth>so lots of the buildings physically make no sense
11:25<andythenorth>one wall would be higher than the other for example
11:26<andythenorth>the roofs are often stupidly thick
11:26<V453000>meh :) that doesnt mean I cant make stupidly thick models :P
11:26<andythenorth>and the dimensions of doors and windows would look all wrong when rendering :)
11:26<andythenorth>that is where the magic smoke would leak out
11:26<V453000>mhm :) well lets see
11:27<andythenorth>*if* I was to start rendering (eh, no), I would probably do something in this direction
11:27<andythenorth>https://lh6.ggpht.com/nQsvNBvzhC-4QCVejpEl9CdK4qLvSKmEgM1MCymqQulqpKiBgS0LNY4fMiTj9_BOcA=h900
11:27<andythenorth>http://www.mmohunter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Township_3_Town-views.jpg
11:27<andythenorth>http://images.virtualworldsland.com/games/228/gallery/498.jpg
11:29<V453000>yeah :)
11:29<andythenorth>low poly, exagerrated shapes, beautiful render set up
11:29<V453000>yay
11:29<V453000>the bridges are fun
11:31<V453000>I love this kind of imagez :) though they feel a bit too cuddly/sweet/soft for OpenTTD to me :)
11:31<V453000>but hell yeah why not
11:32<V453000>could create something like that eventually for toyland/5th/extra climate
11:33<@Alberth>first one has a beautiful station in the shape of a steam engine :)
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11:34<V453000>I like every piece of it really :D
11:35<andythenorth>or I would do something more minimal and white
11:35<andythenorth>we rendered an animated series once in pure white, blue and beige
11:35<andythenorth>with red for the blood
11:36<andythenorth>it’s offline right now though :P
11:36<andythenorth>oh someone pirated it on YT
11:36<andythenorth>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S90kfeD1P6I
11:37<V453000>oh yeah :D
11:37<andythenorth>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNcx2ttVsrk
11:37<andythenorth>wow, low rez
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11:41<V453000>hmm RAWR postproduction using 16GB ram
11:42<andythenorth>push the boundaries
11:42<andythenorth>you need a render farm
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11:42<V453000>nah its fine :)
11:42<andythenorth>buy another box and leave it watching batch jobs on a shared disk
11:42<V453000>rendering over night and if I wanted I could render on multiple PCs
11:43<V453000>now I am rendering last moment because I want to get it finished already :D
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12:03<V453000>lets see what does bananas have to say about 300 MB
12:03<V453000>and I dont think its opinion will be sparta
12:05<@planetmaker>you have to use musa. but you know that, I guess :)
12:06<V453000>sure, that is obvious :)
12:06<V453000>got that prepared already
12:06<V453000>hm will need some more rendering :>
12:07*andythenorth should make some teaser images for Iron Horse
12:07<andythenorth>'marketing'
12:07<andythenorth>:P
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12:38<andythenorth>page crashes my browser
12:38<andythenorth>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=Callbacks&action=history
12:38<andythenorth>anyone else?
12:39<andythenorth>just me
12:40<andythenorth>I really thought I’d added a note about why cb 15E should not be used with any limitations
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12:44<@Alberth>works for me
12:46<@planetmaker>where did actually Elyon disappear to? Wasn't he the guy who worked on nml stations?
12:46<andythenorth>reasonable answer? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1141501#p1141501
12:48<@planetmaker>I think so
12:49<andythenorth>I would update wiki, but I’m locked out :P
12:50<andythenorth>I swear I added a note somewhere
12:51<andythenorth>ah, I think nml vehicle cbs page handles the issue by simpling not describing how to prevent refit?
12:51<andythenorth>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Vehicle_callbacks
12:53<@planetmaker>those who know how to use a callback know how to fail them
12:55<andythenorth>oh you replied to McZ too
12:55*andythenorth was typing for a while :)
12:55<@planetmaker>CB_FAILED is not hard to know and described in the general sections on callbacks
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13:37<@Alberth>hi hi
13:37<V453000>hihi
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14:00<V453000>RAWR
14:06<@Alberth>\O/
14:06<NGC3982>Maybe it's time i try that thing..
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14:10*NGC3982 feels stupid, but does not understand how to apprahend it.
14:11<V453000>?
14:16<V453000>anyway, what could be the cause of this? only happens in x4 and x4, at the edge of the map
14:23<@peter1138>apprahend?
14:24<V453000>....... link :) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWRbug.png
14:25*NGC3982 forgot to check the online content.
14:28<@Alberth>the nothing!
14:47<@peter1138>Your void tile is wrong?
14:49<V453000>no clue
14:49<V453000>I have no idea what is a void tile
14:50<@peter1138>Oh yeah, we don't have them any more.
15:01<NGC3982>V453000: Them industry animations are bliss.
15:01<V453000>:)
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15:06<frosch123>V453000: maybe a shade of alpha, which ottd turns into black?
15:06<V453000>idk
15:06<V453000>I would assume some bad offset?
15:07<frosch123>it's the bulldozed bare earth tiles, converted to black
15:08<NGC3982>I guess one should consider zBase -and- rawr?
15:09<V453000>doesnt really matter, I used it with any base set
15:09<V453000>not much will remain out of zbase so it is lookable at
15:09<V453000>just buildings/bridges/airports/stations
15:09<V453000>mainly
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15:11<NGC3982>Ok
15:16<NGC3982>How does one get the correct wagons for YETI dudes and so on?
15:16<V453000>NUTS - monorail chameleon / maglev medium / maglev fast / maglev animal express and slugs
15:17<V453000>pineapple trains have some flatbeds too
15:18<NGC3982>Is it usable with the vanilla trains?
15:18<V453000>no
15:19<NGC3982>Aight *downloads*
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15:21<FLHerne>NGC3982: Presumably OGFX+ trains will carry them
15:21<NGC3982>Oh!
15:21<FLHerne>But without the funny graphics
15:21*NGC3982 core2duo struggles a tad.
15:22<FLHerne>NGC3982: C2D here, doesn't seem to struggle all that much
15:22<NGC3982>I'm still at the NewGRF settings window, and the program is unreachable at the moment.
15:22<NGC3982>But that's no error, i guess. It's a big file :-)
15:23<V453000>NGC3982: do you have sprite cache size increased?
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15:23<NGC3982>I haven't really checked.
15:24<NGC3982>I'll try and play first, fix later.
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15:49<argoneus>V453000: RAWR
15:49<V453000>RAWR
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16:28<deniz1a>there are no electric trains in sub arctic?
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16:34<deniz1a>ok yes vehicle sets are different for sub-arctic
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16:47<andythenorth>hurgh
16:48<andythenorth>should FIRS do this extra parameters for closing / opening etc
16:48*andythenorth couldn’t care less either way
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 28 00:00:47 2015